: More proof that Shaco needs to be hammered down.
Wow, I didn't know the situation was that critical. In the good old days, when the best meme about the balance team was "better nerf irelia" and not the "+0.25s to Zoe Q CD at rank 5", stats like those would have triggered in Morello a knee-jerk giga Nerf reaction in the subsequent patch. Now somehow we call this game "competitive" even though it is acceptable to leave a champion that strong for so long.
: This is how I feel about getting someone to play a Tank. It's like some people are allergic to game-winning utility.
> [{quoted}](name=Variks the Loyal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ei406kfZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-13T23:55:41.072+0000) > > This is how I feel about getting someone to play a Tank. > > It's like some people are allergic to game-winning utility. Tanks are completely unviable in pretty much any role, in every elo. Instead of pretending people to play tanks, pick a Maokai top yourself, vs a Renekton. The reason why everybody refuses to pick a tank will appear clear and bright to you. Unless you're one of those individuals that classifies Darius as a tank, then there is no discussion to make
Comentários de Rioters
Leetri (EUW)
: It gave 1000 HP at most, but it only gave health and 1,5% maximum health regen per second. The current Warmogs give a lot more stuff. For 350 more gold you got the following: -200 HP +3,5% health regen/second +200% base health regen +10% CDR Which in terms of raw gold means you get 458,7 gold more stats for only 350 gold. Now if the extra health regen and CDR is better than just 200 HP I don't know, I'm not good with builds. But you can't deny you get more for your money nowadays than before.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toddwick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZFAUbgv3,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-08T02:42:19.172+0000) > > I see you have accepted defeat I see you accepted defeat as well. A useless mode that provides no value serves no purpose. It's wasting resources better used elsewhere. Maybe you should have rallied your so called TT mains to keep it afloat and in new blood instead of using analogies like "SR is a burger while TT is a steak" please if TT is a steak then it must be one of those horrible ones you get in the generic brand of frozen meals.
Considering Riot hasn't touched TT in 5 years, the resources saved by removing it are literally zero. Also they could have implemented a data-driven approximate balancing, just like Aram recently. The problem with TT is that it is perceived by a large portion of the player base as a mini version of the rift, and so they say they'd rather play the original.
: So riot them twisted treeline rewards..... what the hell?
I can't blame Riot for being cheap, because the anniversary rewards were very generous. But surely I can blame them for valuing TT players (and Dominion too) next to zero. As a company, you shouldn't be removing game modes people enjoy, albeit a small community. But if you're hell-bent on doing so, at least show some appreciation.
: > [{quoted}](name=MorganFreemanBot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5WNt42P1,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-11-02T22:12:06.344+0000) > > There shouldn't be any. > > Qiyana's ulti would be extremely strong with just the knock back + damage component, as it's still an immense nuke with a gigantic range that displaces numerous people and can afflict a positively massive zone depending on where you use it. > > Having a hard stun ONTOP of all of that is nuts. There's a reason she's pick / ban in the pro scene. lol pick/ban. Check the latest worlds finals and she barely shows up. She has abysmal waveclear, which cripples her lane prio, and she falls off hard like Katarina and Talon. Her whole kits revolves around the environment, so don't be damn next to a wall with a Qiyana in game, same as you wouldn't with a Poppy or Vayne. I can't believe people are still whining about assassins when worlds has been nothing but mages and adc's in mid lane.
> [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5WNt42P1,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2019-11-03T05:24:27.011+0000) > > lol pick/ban. Check the latest worlds finals and she barely shows up. Jesus Christ dude. At least look things up before writing that level of buffoonery
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: Except that Quyana herself is not like Zed or Talon. If she's behind, as an Assassin she's literally a no damage champion. She has to go in and can't kill anyone and can't get out. So the only thing for her is to have a utility through her R. If you want that removed, she now can be flashed out to not apply her E damage and her Q and R are skillshots. You have an assassin that's all skillshots and no CC whatsoever. Her mobility is conditional with W and there would literally be no reason to pick her again unless you buff up her damage to absurd levels so that one hit from her rock Q deletes half of your HP. And that's exactly how she's gonna be played as, in that hypothetical situation.
Look friend, all assassins from behind suck hard; some more than others. An assassin that when behind can still pull off a teamwide stun wombo with a single skill has it good. Too good, actually.
: > He didn't "need" the range increase because of Blitzcrank underperforming, but he "needed" it because of fleshing out his identity as "the hook". The identity of "hook" is very very unhealthy. Champs that have all their power in one spell almost always tend to be problematic. See aatrox, zoe and ofc blitz. Blitz specifically will either land a hook that will win the game (despite missing every other hook) or will miss and be a minion for a couple of seconds. > Before the nerf, he was sub-optimal in the sense that if you wanted to pick a champion with long range displacement, you were better off picking thresh, Nautilus or pyke, because they have much more to offer beyond their equally long hooks. Not really. He has the best hook (and had ofc) because it has no wind up. It is nigh instant (0.25sc). Whereas pyke needs to charge and thresh's has 0.5. Nautilus cant pass walls. So blitz can pass wall and is close to instant with similar range. > After all, getting grabbed by Blitz is worse, but Pyke's, Naut's and Thresh's hooks are pretty much a death sentence anyway, so it doesn't matter. That is because both thresh and pyke are overloaded as hell. And naut's damage is rather overtuned. > I support Riot in trying to preserve this newfound identity by nerfing something around it. Nobody really picks blitz for his armor, or crazy hook damage, but for the hook they do Thats even WORSE. So what riot attempts will lead to a situation where literally blitz will be a q bot. Because they will refuse to address his range (or cast time). Do you know why i hate blitz as a champ? Because if my team picks it chances are that he will miss everything and be a e bot. And instead of 5v5 it will be a 4.5v5.
> [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=busyHRis,comment-id=0005000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-02T00:27:28.719+0000) > Thats even WORSE. So what riot attempts will lead to a situation where literally blitz will be a q bot. Because they will refuse to address his range (or cast time). Do you know why i hate blitz as a champ? Because if my team picks it chances are that he will miss everything and be a e bot. And instead of 5v5 it will be a 4.5v5. This was true also before the range buff, though. Blitzcrank has always been a Q bot whose success depended solely on landing the grab. This is a kit-related issue that would still stand even if his Q range was nerfed by 100 instead of buffed by 100. He can only grab, but at least now he's unmatched in grabbing a far away target, and that's a reason to prefer him over his competitors, in certain situations.
: > He needed a Q range buff. That doesnt mean that it needs to be reverted if it makes him too strong. Theyre fleshing out his strengths and weaknesses better No he didnt? His winrate was just fine. The problem with blitz is his sole design. You miss? You are more or less useless (for a supp) for the next x seconds. You land? Too bad for the enemy. The target is completely isolated and he cant do anything to avoid his probable death (apart qss the knock up and then dashing/blinking away).
> [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=busyHRis,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-01T21:14:43.019+0000) > > No he didnt? His winrate was just fine. The problem with blitz is his sole design. You miss? You are more or less useless (for a supp) for the next x seconds. You land? Too bad for the enemy. The target is completely isolated and he cant do anything to avoid his probable death (apart qss the knock up and then dashing/blinking away). He didn't "need" the range increase because of Blitzcrank underperforming, but he "needed" it because of fleshing out his identity as "the hook". Before the nerf, he was sub-optimal in the sense that if you wanted to pick a champion with long range displacement, you were better off picking thresh, Nautilus or pyke, because they have much more to offer beyond their equally long hooks. After all, getting grabbed by Blitz is worse, but Pyke's, Naut's and Thresh's hooks are pretty much a death sentence anyway, so it doesn't matter. With this change Blitzcrank has an identity, something only him can do. I support Riot in trying to preserve this newfound identity by nerfing something around it. Nobody really picks blitz for his armor, or crazy hook damage, but for the hook they do
: Did I say balanced? I said "balance-able" in regard to her KIT MECHANICS being balance-able with simple number tweaks rather than changes in the mechanics. Please read and comprehend.
OMEGALUL is the most appropriate response You blame me for not reading nor comprehending yet you didn't notice I wrote "balanceable" too, in my post. And I meant exactly what I wrote: you can't design an assassin and slap a AOE teamfighting hard-CC nuke as their ultimate like it's nothing. It will never be balanceable.
iiGazeii (NA)
: The downsides of Senna
1) Her autoattack are slow, true, but they also deal bonus damage, speed her up, and have huge (and scaling) range. Overall I'd say her autos are different, but not weak whatsoever. This does make building attackspeed on her suboptimal, though. 2) Her bAD is tied with the mist, and that's a tradeoff. She gets free crit, but her crits deal less damage. This pushes her away from building crit items, but free crit is still free crit (at 25 minutes, she can reach 80% with one crit item) and there are other build options for her, like lethality or triforce. 3) Her Q is as dodgeable as a Lucian Q, and has huge range. The damage zone is not thin whatsoever, it's average. The mana problems and the big CD are a limitation only in the laining phase (that's good, but many many spells are mana and cd gated in the early game), while in the lategame the Q spam is absurd: she can Q every two autos, and its range scales with her attack range. 4) Fair point on the W. 5) Your statement doesn't really cut away a lot from her E power. While Senna's position might signaled, it's still team-wide camouflage with solid extra bonuses for those ones exiting the area. You don't know how many and which enemies are in there. Getting in there gives vision on the whole pack, but it is akin to facechecking a bush, can you afford it? Not always. Maybe several people were mistaken into thinking it was a moving, team-wide akali shroud, but the reality isn't so different: it's still an incredibly powerful, unique and versatile spell slapped on an already overloaded kit which promises nothing but balancing problems for the years to come. 6) Her ultimate has INSANE travel speed, and it is just as wide as a Lux R, which is the most comparable skill. Anything you can hit with a Lux R, you can hit with a Senna's R, roughly.
: Honestly the last GOOD designed champ was Qiyana, I think she still has some balance to figure out, but her KIT in general is very balance-able with simple number tweaks, rather than core mechanic changes which we see over and over again in other new releases since 2015....
LuL an hypermobile assassin with one of the strongest AOE teamfighting ultimates, balanceable and well designed. Just like an Akali with a malphite ultimate 100% pick/ban in proplay since release Nice meme dude
: No. Why? #1. Her Auto attack speed is HEAVILY gated. Although they are bad at describing it, she has a .5 second delay between auto attacks that you CANNOT REDUCE. Most champions have a .2-.3 Second Delay so this is SIGNIFICANT. --------------------------- Here's my problem with your assumptions: I've actually played Senna on PBE. Here's what I found: #1) In a controlled environment, it takes Senna about 17 minutes to hit 20 Mist souls, 22 minutes to hit 40, .... etc, and about 31 minutes to hit 80. IN A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT, aka when players aren't making her life hell. **2) This is what people are scared about: her massive range gain from stacks. Although her rate of fire is slow and cannot keep up with other adcs at all, she's insane at killing RUNNERS...... ONCE STACKED. In a perfect environment, 80-100 stacks results in a range where Senna can outrange turrets, and Q can extend to hit what seems like 2 adcs away. In other words, you can't peel.** Still.... this is controlled environment scaling. So far on the PBE, the most I have seen is 48 stacks, which is insignificant. I've actually hit and failed to kill a 20% Lucian with a fully built Lucian with her Ult. It's 500 base at tier 3, with a small bit of scaling. The primary benefit is it adds 150% of Mist souls to the barrier. The 100% AD is misleading because it doesn't crit, and her AD numbers stay small. --------------------------- In real play: I have yet to see a Senna be more impactful to a PBE game than an Ekko or Pyke. Ekko and Pyke are slaughtering games so fast Senna is irrelevant.
I appreciate you bringing your experience to the topic. It is very valuable. I tend to be skeptical about PBE-driven conclusions though, especially considering Yuumi released with a 35% WR while she was probably already on the strong side. On the topic of mist stacking, I have seen quite different numbers, and noticed that a lot of people struggle to figure out they can gain stacks from champions hit, too. I believe 85-90 stacks at 25 minutes will be the average for an experienced senna player, but that's a guess. Anyway, the numbers you reported are quite low, using as a source many Senna games on the web. Remember, also, that this is not inquiring about Senna's state of power, for even the simplest champion can be turned OP with enough number buffing (coff coff Garen). This is about Senna having so much stuff in her kit she'll risk either completely crowding out other champions, or being completely useless (the Kai'sa problem); at the same time, being so overloaded she'll risk being too strong for the best players, and too weak for everyone else, effectively preventing the majority of the playerbase from enjoying her (the Aatrox problem). She might even release with terrible WR, but she would still be fundamentally flawed. The attack delay is a good point, for it introduces a tradeoff somewhere that can compensate for something elsewhere. That said, while Senna's AA animation is longer than her colleagues, she gains Crit and range from mist collecting (I wouldn't say AD too because her bAD doesn't scale, apparently), and her autos deal bonus damage and grant her movement speed based off her target's. All in all, her autos are different, but not necessarily weaker (just like Jhin).
Smyrage (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=GelsominoKiller,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=00120001,timestamp=2019-10-30T18:45:30.450+0000) > > That's a straight up false statement. Let me bring some facts: {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} **took years (YEARS!!!!!!!!) worth of iterative changes, mini reworks, and several mechanics removal to gain some semblance of balance.** To this day, on those champions the gap between high diamond+ players and everybody else remains immense. Even now, they're still a problem and a point of frustration for players, and more changes are to come. Those two are just an example, but of the most recent champions i listed above, many others fall in this same sad history. > > When {{champion:62}} happened to be overpowered for a couple of weeks due to on-auto damage item stacking, **ONE SINGLE NERF was enough to put him in line and he stopped being a problem since that.** > > So yeah, can't really condone such statement. > > Random assumptions about me. I don't like one-dimensional champions, I think they should be reworked to modern standards. > You're completely biased and reason by extremes, like any design that isn't Senna-level of overloaded, must be Garen-level of stat check. **There is a SUPER WIDE GAP IN BETWEEN that we should aim for. Or are we just pretenting that 70% of the roster doesn't exist**, and that I hum am a big garen fan coz he easy n simple senna bad cuz she complicated. > > {{champion:238}} to me is an example of an extremely mechanically complex champion which doesn't happen to be overloaded. > {{champion:516}} is recent, quite straight forward, but far from being one dimensional. Good work needs time. Certain of their mechanics were indeed over the top, but you reason with extremes as well. There is literally zero problem that certain champions have gap between different elos, it comes with the fact that due to their complexity they are harder to play. I can only think of the Irelia rework, which was extremely busted, but that was due to a lot of factors, one among the many was the Conqueror. Aatrox was just never that broken. Neither was Akali that broken. You do realize that when a champion has many mechanics, they also trade efficiency on that specific mechanics? Because Senna seems like not being able to deal that amount of damage and dish out the same amount of healing. Also by your reasoning Sona is overloaded as well, because her Q empowers allied champion AA and pokes, W heals and shields and E grants speed. And dude, Zed might not be overloaded for you, but he is considered overloaded by quite many players for all the things he can do as an assassin. There is a reason mages loathe him.
> Good work needs time. Not years. Some iteration is allowable, but we're reaching non-sustainable levels: as new problematic champions are introduced, older problematic champions are yet to be fixed. Example: {{champion:266}} is one year and half old, and he boasts a mind-blowing 40% presence in patch notes, meaning that he has been changed monthly, and sometimes those changes aren't light work. Aatrox is still an issue far from being solved. {{champion:246}} is very recent, and she's pick/ban in competitive with all over the top stats. Her story has just started, but she's going though the same road Aatrox, Akali and others are in. If we keep releasing balance nightmares at this rate, the work they need to be fixed will accumulate and bring disaster. > Also by your reasoning Sona is overloaded as well, because her Q empowers allied champion AA and pokes, W heals and shields and E grants speed. ? Every single Sona spell does **one** thing: damage foes, protect allies, mobility for allies, CC and damage for enemies. Can't think of a less overloaded champion. > And dude, Zed might not be overloaded for you, but he is considered overloaded by quite many players for all the things he can do as an assassin. Ah yes, the many things Zed can do as an assassin, sure, conveniently omitted. What are those? Because Zed used to be proficient at assassinating and splitting, but his splitting potential was nerfed in season 3. Zed's kit is tailored toward outplay potential and single target assassination, which are pretty by-the-book for an assassin. Never ever have I seen somebody complain about Zed being overloaded. Zed being overpowered, unmanageable, unfair, many times. Overloaded? Never. {{champion:238}} P: extra damage on autos Q: damage in a line E: damage in a circle W: get some bonus AD, drop a shadow that mimicks your spells. You can swap positions with the shadow. R: dash to an enemy that will take bonus damage after a delay. Drop a shadow on cast, works like W shadow. Pretty darn straight forward my dude.
: how is kalista overloaded? do you mean Kaisa ?
No, Kalista. Exactly Kalista. {{champion:429}} is forced to be reduced to the shell of a champion she is now exactly because of that. Which is sad, to be honest. If I recall correctly, she was the very first (even before Azir) balance nightmare (i.e. a champion that requires one change every two patches and several years only to be either reworked or made useless). In desperation, the balance team even resorted to giving her an unprecedented non-100% AD ratio on her autos, but to no avail. Why you might ask? Well... if you decide to make a champion with unparalleled kiting potential with a dash every auto, you probably shouldn't give her hard-CC, very strong slows, and a reliable way to bring in your support for aid. When Kalista was released, her passive was unaffected by movement speed (only boot rank) and she was basically immune to slows. Oh, and she outsmites junglers.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: The thing is: mechanically complex champions are easier to balance, you just don't notice it, because you are not the one doing it. Sure, they can get overloaded sometimes, but it's easier to pull power from specific mechanics of a champion, then do raw statistical changes without ruining the champion altogether. You are flaming Riot's approach to new champions, but the thing is that if the game remained at the state of one dimensional champions like {{champion:1}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:11}} etc., then the game would have died out because they are not entertaining at all and can't be balanced at all. Also those one dimensional champions you really like are extremely hard to balance, because they can only do limited things. Like you see what happened when they buffed Garen. Garen is just a one dimensional champion, who is easy to play, but I believe nobody really supposed to play him after Gold rank. He can only do one thing and if balance breaks him, he can do the same thing way too good, which will result in him being extremely oppressive. Sure you don't like that they have less weaknesses than those adored one dimensional champions, but apart from you, nobody really likes when the game is decided at the draft and everyone likes to have impact on the game.
> The thing is: mechanically complex champions are easier to balance That's a straight up false statement. Let me bring some facts: {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} **took years (YEARS!!!!!!!!) worth of iterative changes, mini reworks, and several mechanics removal to gain some semblance of balance.** To this day, on those champions the gap between high diamond+ players and everybody else remains immense. Even now, they're still a problem and a point of frustration for players, and more changes are to come. Those two are just an example, but of the most recent champions i listed above, many others fall in this same sad history. When {{champion:62}} happened to be overpowered for a couple of weeks due to on-auto damage item stacking, **ONE SINGLE NERF was enough to put him in line and he stopped being a problem since that.** So yeah, can't really condone such statement. > Also those one dimensional champions you really like Random assumptions about me. I don't like one-dimensional champions, I think they should be reworked to modern standards. You're completely biased and reason by extremes, like any design that isn't Senna-level of overloaded, must be Garen-level of stat check. **There is a SUPER WIDE GAP IN BETWEEN that we should aim for. Or are we just pretenting that 70% of the roster doesn't exist**, and that I hum am a big garen fan coz he easy n simple senna bad cuz she complicated. {{champion:238}} to me is an example of an extremely mechanically complex champion which doesn't happen to be overloaded. {{champion:516}} is recent, quite straight forward, but far from being one dimensional.
Moody P (NA)
: Probably one of the most interesting supports we've gotten. I'd rather have more of this than more of whatever boring ass champions you guys like - KogMaw meta for you maybe, LOL
I agree. But we're not talking "interesting" here. We're talking overloaded. Aatrox and Camille (right now) are interesting, but not overloaded. Senna and Kalista interesting, but overloaded. Overloaded champions tend to be problematic and end up unenjoyable for everybody after a long and exhausting series of nerfs, changes, mechanics removals and compensation buffs.
: I play both roles. If you see Senna use this you back up and wait for it to end unless you know you can win. It's that simple. You respect it like you would Blitzcrank hook. Not to mention skillshots still work.
I'll play the devil's advocate here: - isn't blitzcrank his hook? While Senna has many other things going for her, blitz plays around his hook. Remove the shroud from her, Senna is still a fully fledged champion. Remove blitzcrank hook, he's nothing. That's why the point is being overloaded, and not the mechanic itself. Sure, a mechanic can be respected and played around, but when they become so many, it's pointless.
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=GelsominoKiller,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHaeKIi5,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-10-29T18:25:04.503+0000) > > By the time spitting becomes relevant, Aatrox should have closed his death'd dance, making the issue a non-issue. > > If death's dance ends up being suboptimal on him, or straight up removed from the game, appropriately tuning Aatrox's Q dmg reduction (and its scaling with levels) on minions can compensate for a lackluster splitting, with a tradeoff between "safer, but slower splitting" and "faster, but riskier splitting". This is a very good point. Deaths Dance would mitigate the loss of his minion healing off of Deathbringer Stance quite a bit. I've also proposed a QoL change that may make up for the loss of minion healing before Deaths Dance comes into play. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it
No real comment here, I think it's perfect. It's a visual indicator that helps both the Aatrox player and his opponent, especially in low elo. Manifesting the progress toward getting the Deathbringer Stance, similarly how Vlad's Q is signaled, creates counterplay for the opponent and helps inexperienced Aatrox players correctly optimizing autos and trades. It replaces another visual indicator which is mostly unnecessary, so its implementation is almost free. Only one suggestion: it shouldn't be named "fury bar", the most fitting word is "blood well", given that both pre and post rework Aatrox had it for quite some time, and people were attached to it.
: > [{quoted}](name=GelsominoKiller,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHaeKIi5,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-10-28T23:25:58.481+0000) > > I like the thinking you put through your analysis. > > But... first: Aatrox is not a Juggernaut, not in a million years, not with his mobility and range. I'd barely accept him being called a melee champion, given his range of an aggression. Aatrox sphere of influence is more comparable to a Zed's than a Garen's, it's not a coincidence that Aatrox fares well in ranged matchups, where juggernauts struggle the most. > > Aatrox has been a competitive nightmare for almost two years. He has crowded out any semblance of variety in the toplane scene. Riot has spent a record amount of design time trying to iteratively fix him. As a result, Aatrox was subject to a progressive removal of multiple mechanics, losing even his most iconic revive. > > I think that Aatrox Q is a fantastic spell, but one that takes, and must take, all of a champion's power budget; W, E and R are a support to it. **All of Aatrox strenght must be reduced to his Q, and only then we can afford thinking about buffing him in such a way most people can get to enjoy his amazing gameplay with decent success.** > > What i propose is to end the road of trimming his kit to the barebone Riot has engaged since his release (not much remains anyway): > - his E can't go through walls anymore. This is an huge nerf, but moreso in high elo. > - his passive doesn't heal Aatrox off minions anymore. It went from 100% to 25% and it proved to be the only change capable of crippling Aatrox's dominance in competitive. I conclude that out-of-combat, no risk sustain is inappropriate for a champion with such lane bully capabilities (when he's not underpowered). Sure thing, he should be compensated for that. > > After the above mentioned changes, Aatrox is reduced to the minimum. Now we can engage in "how can he be viable for the average joe?" I propose a well-thought round of buffs on his base stats, just like you wrote in this post. > - base health, scaling health and health regen up in order to increase his survivability and compensate for the passive change above > - more attack speed and scaling attack speed for more DPS in close quarters. Failing Q, which is frequent in low elo, is now less impactful due to a solid baseline of melee autos as a fall back. I'd avoid introducing a new effect on his Q, Aatrox is already complicated enough. > - base armor and scaling armor up for dealing with melee matchups. If Aatrox takes less damage, he has more time to land skills and heal. > > Even after that, Aatrox will always remain an high skill floor champion with low soloq winrates, akin to Leblanc, Azir, etc. He'll never be an easy champion. I like this line of thinking, and I honestly think that Deathbringer Stance's heal off of minions could go, given the right buff to compensate. Giving him more attack speed would sharpen his niche as a lane bully who focuses on sustained trades as opposed to short, bursty trades like Renekton. However, then the question becomes: does Aatrox still need splitpushing capability, and if so, how do we give him that now that his minion healing is gone? I don't know the answer to this one yet, but I'll definitely give it some more thought I hadn't really thought out the Attack Speed increase on the Q hit, given that Umbral Dash already has an AA reset built-in, so probably going to walk that one back and try to think of something simpler
By the time spitting becomes relevant, Aatrox should have closed his death'd dance, making the issue a non-issue. If death's dance ends up being suboptimal on him, or straight up removed from the game, appropriately tuning Aatrox's Q dmg reduction (and its scaling with levels) on minions can compensate for a lackluster splitting, with a tradeoff between "safer, but slower splitting" and "faster, but riskier splitting".
: How to Increase Aatrox's Skill Floor Without Making him OP in High-End Play
I like the thinking you put through your analysis. But... first: Aatrox is not a Juggernaut, not in a million years, not with his mobility and range. I'd barely accept him being called a melee champion, given his range of an aggression. Aatrox sphere of influence is more comparable to a Zed's than a Garen's, it's not a coincidence that Aatrox fares well in ranged matchups, where juggernauts struggle the most. Aatrox has been a competitive nightmare for almost two years. He has crowded out any semblance of variety in the toplane scene. Riot has spent a record amount of design time trying to iteratively fix him. As a result, Aatrox was subject to a progressive removal of multiple mechanics, losing even his most iconic revive. I think that Aatrox Q is a fantastic spell, but one that takes, and must take, all of a champion's power budget; W, E and R are a support to it. **All of Aatrox strenght must be reduced to his Q, and only then we can afford thinking about buffing him in such a way most people can get to enjoy his amazing gameplay with decent success.** What i propose is to end the road of trimming his kit to the barebone Riot has engaged since his release (not much remains anyway): - his E can't go through walls anymore. This is an huge nerf, but moreso in high elo. - his passive doesn't heal Aatrox off minions anymore. It went from 100% to 25% and it proved to be the only change capable of crippling Aatrox's dominance in competitive. I conclude that out-of-combat, no risk sustain is inappropriate for a champion with such lane bully capabilities (when he's not underpowered). Sure thing, he should be compensated for that. After the above mentioned changes, Aatrox is reduced to the minimum. Now we can engage in "how can he be viable for the average joe?" I propose a well-thought round of buffs on his base stats, just like you wrote in this post. - base health, scaling health and health regen up in order to increase his survivability and compensate for the passive change above - more attack speed and scaling attack speed for more DPS in close quarters. Failing Q, which is frequent in low elo, is now less impactful due to a solid baseline of melee autos as a fall back. I'd avoid introducing a new effect on his Q, Aatrox is already complicated enough. - base armor and scaling armor up for dealing with melee matchups. If Aatrox takes less damage, he has more time to land skills and heal. Even after that, Aatrox will always remain an high skill floor champion with low soloq winrates, akin to Leblanc, Azir, etc. He'll never be an easy champion.
: > Proposed solutions: Xayah is very likely to fall back into normality with some simple number nerfs; if we want to end this two-years-long Kai'sa omnipresence in both solo and competitive, serious design work is needed, and it won't be pleasant for her mains. Actually, it is the other way around: Kai'Sa's omnipresence could be cured with a few number tweaks, whereas Xayah might need design work. Evidence for this is Xayah STILL being the strongest bot laner in Worlds despite eating a strong nerf beforehand. She lost base Armor and had her ultimate CD increased by 20 seconds at all ranks, a combination that would've trashed most other champs. Kai'Sa needs a hit to her Evolve threshoulds, so she no longer has such an easy access to all three of them. For that, raising the stat requirement for subsequent evolves after the first to 120/140 would be a possibility.
If Kai'sa numbers were to be nerfed, she would be outclassed and wouldn't be played, just like right now she outclasses others that aren't played. But you then propose to change her evolve threshold, which I wholly agree with but don't considering "nerfing numbers". Changing which build paths allow her to get an empowered spell, and how many empowered spells she can actually get is heavy work design wise. I wouldn't mind if she became that flexible ADC that adapts with different builds. Example: for her to get empowered Q with huge assassination potential, she should invest in lethality and build akin to a Varus. My point about Xayah is that she's so contested and strong in competitive because of her offering on demand safety. Tham kench used to be, and now more than ever is utter trash in any elo outside of competitive where that shell of a champion is still somehow picked. The true strength of Xayah is not evident in normal play, and that's the reason why she doesn't have out of line stats in soloq (which Kai'sa has instead).
Comentários de Rioters
: \>rush \>second mutually exclusive
Meh. Considering penetration items usually come as a 4th, 5th item even, it's not totally inappropriate wording.
: In "Silence for the Damned", I understood that the idea behind {{champion:106}} looking like this was because he ended up very injured after his battle with {{champion:516}} , and he decided to help {{champion:113}} in order to gain physical presence in Runeterra and be made whole again, instead of looking like that twisted monstruosity. So really, I don't think taking the Eldricht approach was ever Riot's intention. He was just there to be an in between until his rework came out. But yeah, I like his new design showed on the roadmap more. Thought to be fair, I like designs that are kept simple instead of overdoing it like they have done with some champs lately, so I would actually prefer if they simply stayed with the original design.
Volibear was literally rebuilding his body from scratch, no wonder he looked monstrous. You would look monstrous too if a giant dwarf ram forge god was to remove half of your face with an hammer. But again, he surely had mastery on shaping flesh in uncanny and unnatural ways, both his own and his followers. So a standard, glorified, regal armored bear wouldn't fit with a mass of bear-things abominations as worshippers. Some pagan-eldritch aesthetic had to be kept if that were to be their chosen direction. What's truly terrifying though is not the physical appearance of the Volibear, but his immense spiritual presence. For the simple fact of existing nearby, Volibear induces individuals in trance, fades their consciousnesses, dominates their mind etc. In essence a psionic juggernaut, very close to the most truly eldritch aspects of Cthulhu himself: not only a big ugly monstrosity, but something beyond, and above, human conception of mind and self. Yeah, armored bear with thunders wont be enough for me anymore...
: The horror voli is cool, I just feel a VU should prioritize keeping the spirit of the original champ. They can keep the eldritch ferocity, just demonstrate it through lightning, wind, rain and storm
I am actually surprised that many bring on ferocity, savagery, etc. when talking about the Volibear of Silence for the Damned. There's nothing furious about Eldritch Volibear. That thing is as coold blooded as a reptile. It is actually closer to a emotionless crossroad demon trying to trick you into eternal damnation but not really caring. **In the end of the story, a mortal, Udyr, basically emote spammed the Volibear blatantly trying to trigger him. Udyr even impersonated the Ram, just to say: "hey, do you remember that time your brother hammered your soul out of your body? Good times. Git gud". Faced with such disrespect and provocation, what was the God of thunder's reaction? "Meh. You can't do shit. I'll go back impaling corpses for my ritual of rejuvenation, and you can't stop me."**
: Not ONLY does the Aatrox Victorious Skin look bad but....
Aatrox still is, by far, the champion with highest presence in proplay in all competitions, except for the latest nerfs that removed him from the scene. Even now, he is literally the only choice that makes sense, almost obligated.
Arakadia (NA)
: I know right? They said they didn't value Swain being a cripple or having ravens in his initial design dev. They obviously don't care about retaining the character, but suddenly they do for Volibear when they have a much more interesting design which is why he was voted in the first place.
Probably different people working on different reworks, some care and we get WW and Nunu, others don't and we get Galio and Swain. I suspect that they learned a lesson about replacing a champion from Aatrox rework backlash, which is still going on. I appreciate that they're trying to listen to loyal mains, but in the case of Volibear there's no lore and barely any personality. Expanding on the "honourable armored bearchieftain thunder shaman preparing for upcoming conflict" is respectable but to me thousand times more bland and boring than pagan Eldritch horror volibear.
: > [{quoted}](name=Helmight,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EI6Pij9n,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-23T04:58:20.048+0000) > > So what exactly is it that makes new Pantheon so strong? I've been trying to crunch it out in my head and I honestly can't understand what makes him pick/ban at Worlds. > > EDIT: Not trying to imply that he's not broken, I'm just legitimately curious. It's pretty simple really, proplay is about pushing your advantage early, and Pantheon is by far the strongest early game champion. No champion comes close to how overbearing Pantheon can be in lane, especially in the hands of pros and someone that can play him properly. Not to mention pros love to turret dive, and Pantheon kinda enables that gameplay with 0 repercussions due to the fact his E can block turret dmg.
> [{quoted}](name=Iron Phantom,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EI6Pij9n,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-10-23T06:52:57.752+0000) > > It's pretty simple really, proplay is about pushing your advantage early, and Pantheon is by far the strongest early game champion. No champion comes close to how overbearing Pantheon can be in lane, especially in the hands of pros and someone that can play him properly. > > Not to mention pros love to turret dive, and Pantheon kinda enables that gameplay with 0 repercussions due to the fact his E can block turret dmg. I doubt early bullying is what concerns proplayers. Pantheon is as big of a bully as Jayce, with the difference that he's not as safe, and after some time falls off like a brick, which Jayce does not. What I am convinced the problem is, is simply diving potential. With a coordinate junglers you can safely and effectively chaindive from level 3 to 11 whenever you've made sure the other jungler is elsewhere. Map pressure with ult is also an impactful factor, I believe.
: Well the feeling definitely isn't mutual. did you not see all the handicap region jokes after NA got rolled? Like Jesus, that's not the crowd I want to be supporting
Do you think that, if the situation was the other way around, NA wouldn't be spamming non-stop? That's... part of the rivalry I guess. Not that I condone the behavior, but don't act like NA hasn't done the same in the past, whenever they won something.
Moody P (NA)
: any fighter or assassin has the movement ability to get around him easily, even juggernauts. it's only ranged champions without mobility that can't do much (and he is intended as a counter to them). pantheons biggest problem is that his Q slows when empowered, giving him an annoyingly flexible ability to kite or disengage if the trade would not be favorable, or chase you down for a kill if it is. It doesn't need the utility after they readded his execution power.
Also, if he ends up being a steady problem in proplay, he could simply lose his E negating turret shots damage. I have a feeling that what's feared more in proplay is Pantheon's diving potential, and not his lane bulling or map presence with ult
: I am ashamed of our region (huge rant)
I am not from NA, but as far as I know, NA is a very, very small region playercount-wise. Also, it might have further shrank in latest years. I actually think that NA is somewhat holding a decent performance compared to much bigger regions like EU, KR, China.
: I think Varus in particular was in a similar situation. He was slightly more fleshed out than Volibear is currently, maybe, but not by much. He had outdated lore and hadn't been featured in any story for a long time until BAM two comics, a music video, and a fresh bio completely changing him to this new vision of Varus. Varus fans wanted to learn more about his family, his duty to this temple, his life after the tragedy and especially about the corruption he gave into, but now they will never get to see that version of Varus developed. Varus may have had more well-established backstory, but other than that it was pretty bare-bones. The same could be said for Volibear; in each version of his several bio rewrites, he still retained an element of regalness or wisdom. And even that aside, I think we're preserving the potential of the current version of Volibear more than we're preserving any established lore. I think the most successful reworks are ones that take a beloved concept that has bare bones development and fully deliver on it. The less-liked reworks completely change the character. Nunu & Willump is an example of a Champion not having a lot of established lore to work with, but they still took the concept of "boy best friends with a yeti" and ran with it, and made a really endearing character that still feels like Nunu's original concept, except fully developed. As far as "pagan Eldritch horror God", again, I don't think Volibear is a good space to explore that archetype. There are so many archetypes, even just within horror, that we're not going to get to see them all. I almost think the Watchers might have made for a better "pagan horror god" but for some reason Lissandra no longer worships them, soooo....:/
I don't know if you're updated on the Varus bio, but this whole story actually ended up in the best way, thanks of a brilliant, genial flick of a Riot's writer. Since Varus is a darkin using two gay bois as a vessel, and darkins are old shuriman ascended, and all ascended were humans once, old Varus story was given to the shuriman warrior Varus originally was. He abandoned his family to protect his post and was rewarded Ascension for his valiant defense. I was very vocal during this controversy at the time, for I felt it was unfair to arbitrarily replace such a good theme of family vs duty. The difference here is that Volibear has not, to me at least, material worth preserving. Old Volibear has little to no material, period. PS: I don't think "regality and wisdom" are inconciliabile with Eldritch bear ;) For one, he could love humans and be convinced that civilization and individuality hurt us, so he accepts in his family of worshippers anyone willing to embrace their instinctive, animal side, while respecting those who want to live as men (Voli has a deal with the frostguard), meddling with their affairs only when enraged or summoned. His wisdom would be uncanny and alien. Sure, it would be a middle ground, an imperfect solution, but those were my two cents.
: This post is such a joke. Nobody really plays {{champion:106}} excepts for the mains, who dedicated time to the champ over the years. They decided they want this champ to be preserved as much as possible and riot actually listened. You people need to stfu, we dont want a Galio or Aatrox tier rework. Why should some no-name, nobody, who never played Voli have an opinion or any say in his rework? I do not understand this logic. You people have 145 other champs to select, If you want an eldritch god, go ask for that in a new champ. dont fuck up this champ with your shitty ideas.
Hey dude! I was very polite in my post, and made sure to acknowledge the priority loyal Volibear mains have on such matter! I understand and respect your intentions of keeping the character as close as possible to what you love. I'm simply a guy whose genuinely invested in the eldritch bear god concept Riot themselves first introduced, and I don't think that another new champion is going to cut it at this point for me, save for him having massive overlaps with Volibear! For example, I don't think there can be another god with a kin of mutated beast-men worshippers which aren't the Ursine, and that's a good chunk of what's interesting for me in Eldritch Volibear... I wish a middle ground could be found, and I'd like to theorize on how to, but I think we're past that point, for Riot has stated that the direction they're going with is yours! This is a further reason not to be rude to somebody who is simply, and respectfully, expressing his preference, don't you think?
: I think the Ruined King is one of those mythic characters that shouldn't ever be a champion in the game. There needs to be some grandiose, mythical beings in the lore that transcend regular levels of legend and myth, and he is one of them. He can appear as some kind of PVE boss like Vilemaw was, but I am wholly against them releasing him as a champion. I think it would greatly reduce his impact on the lore if we can play him.
This is understandable, but in recent years a moltitude of godlike beings were turned into champions. We have Aurelion Sol, star forger space dragon, you can't get more mythical and grandiose than this.
: Real talk here: making Volibear into straight up eldritch bear is akin to changing Varus the way they did, or taking away Shyvana's father, etc. It would be too drastic a change from the things that--while underdeveloped--Volibear players enjoy and see potential in. While I greatly enjoyed "Silence of the Damned" and thought it was a great piece of fiction, I also wholeheartedly agree that it wasn't a direction that Volibear should be taken in. Its just too far removed from the regal, armored war-bear that long time fans envision him to be. I agree with Riot that this is the better approach to take. While many voters for Voli voted with the eldritch horror angle in mind, I feel like Fiddlesticks or Nocturne (both also voting options) were ALWAYS going to be more naturally suited to that kind of thing and aren't living up to that potential with their current visuals either. Think of your favorite character and everything you love about them, then imagine a bunch of random other people who are only interested in that character for ONE single short story that took a very drastic look from everything familiar to you about the character. Its as if Draven was outdated, and they had one story where he was like a serious survivalist in the wild or something, and it was a great story, but drastically different from what Draven fans like about Draven. I don't know if I'm explaining this well but...hm. That said, I'm surprised they didn't keep at least something creepy with him. My personal idea was to keep some of both versions and show them as two sides of the "war coin". One is the regal heroic side we typically appeal to, and the other is the dark inevitable side of war, death and decay and hardship. I didn't expect them to totally abandon that side of Voli, but part of me is glad they did.
Great post! But I still have a couple of objections: - I think that there is a difference between Shyvana and Varus versus Volibear: while the former are well-established, popular and fleshed out, current Volibear **has no lore that makes sense** save from the most recent one where he's depicted as a not-so-positive figure. Volibear as a in-game character speaks maybe 12 generic lines. What we're preserving here is an headcanon of the fans. - neither Fiddlesticks nor Nocturne will ever be able to cut it at "pagan Eldritch horror God". I agree they both infer the general "spooky" themes, but they're not even close to satisfy what I was looking forward with Volibear's rework.
: i get that but i feel like eldritch type stuff should go with the void. the current concept doesn't convince me to play voli and neither does the current one. but it does feel like a genuine "update" to voli. Changing him up would introduce new mains but going from polar bear in armor to eldritch horror will most definitly estrange current fans of voli. They'd have to be into that stuff coincidentally. the current concept looks like voli, but he's a godlike being. which is kinda what most people want i think. visually it feels like an update rather than a new character, which is what i think an update should be like.
Only with the void? :/ To me the best part was specifically that I was presented with an eldritch horror, which was not cosmic horror. No tentacles involved, Norse mithology vibes. Pretty charming. I agree 100% that Voli mains would be estranged by the change, but I also believe that (I'm not gonna lie there) "armored polar bear" is a very boring and bland theme that we should at least consider partly sacrificing for a much more interesting and unique concept we have ready. And that is obviously only my personal opinion.
: Not really, the new look is 100% in line with Ornn, and that's the way it should be. It makes no sense whatsoever to have Ornn and Anivia be semi-ambivalent gods of the Freljord, and then have Volibear, who's spoken of as an intelligent war god in Ornn's story and the fairy tales about Ornn, as some mindless angry monster bear with weird flesh bursting out of him. It didn't fit him as a demigod, and it most definitely didn't fit the nature of the Freljord. That kind of creepy flesh shit is what happens with the Baccai or craft-happy Darkin, or possibly what happens when things end up too close to the Void. It's not really what should have been presented as a creator god of the Freljord.
I (obviously) beg to differ. "Some fleshy mindless angry monster bear" is a terrible understatement of what's depicted in Silence for the Damned. Volibear is horrorific on two planes: material and spiritual one. **Fleshy:** he has flesh and bones exposed, with thunder running through him as if it was blood. This is to be expected because **he's reconstructing himself**. It is vaguely implied that Ornn bitchslapped Volibear's spirit out of his body at the end of their confrontation under the forge. He's stopped existing for a long time in physical form, but his spiritual presence and influence was never gone. **Mindless:** He is polar opposites from being "mindless". Mind you, his "mind" is his strongest feature. In proximity to the Volibear, the individual is negligible, a torch in the sunlight. He is cunning, for he uses this very power to try tricking Sejuani into pledging her tribe to the Ursine. In the ritual he performs, there's surely some specific knowledge involved. He is capable of language, and many other, deeper form of communication. **Angry:** given how he's unfazed at Udyr's blatant provocation in the end, and how he calmly and creepingly agrees to help Sejuani in the battle even after his plan to seize control of her tribe was sabotaged by Udyr's intervention, he's simply never portrayed as angry, or furious, outside of the fighting itself. **Monster:** apart from the "gore" elements, the Volibear has undoubtely still some grotesque traits, especially the moltitude of eyes and the horns, and the ritual used to summon him. That's what I like though. He's not a bear-man. He's a personification of "wilderness", his form is somewhat fluid, uncanny, unsettling, unnatural. **The Volibear in that story is not bland, he's not trivial, he's not clichè. He is different, this I recognize and respect. There's no need to minimize the concept.**
: The New Fiddlesticks Design
I think he's straight up amazing. My only concern is the overadbundance of mechanical elements, I wouldn't like for him to be identified as a "robot" as frist glance.
iiGazeii (NA)
: They also said on the Roadmap: > "Experienced Fiddlesticks players will wreak mental havoc on their victims as they question what is real and what is merely a terrifying effigy." This looks to me like Fiddlesticks will have some kind of copy/clone mechanic, letting him create images of himself to psyche out opponents and keep them on edge.
I think he will leave a lot of still clones of himself around the map, so he'll be able to pose as one of them, for ambushes and mind games. Clones will need to inflict some kind of penalty to their attackers though, else every ranged champ will just auto to check if real of fake.
Comentários de Rioters
: A theory regarding Lucian and Senna, the gun they use and Petricite.
That's definitely retcon material, but keep in mind that Riot's lore is often old and inconsistent. At the time when Lucian's gun were introduced, I am confident that petricite wasn't a thing, not even in their closed studios. What you propose is a good way to modernize and tie together old stories with new ones. That said, I'd like the legendary holy guns to be something more than petricite chunks. I don't mind them employing petricite as a mean, but I wish there was something more to them.
: Patch 9. 21 changes!
How about bugfixing Warwick instead of buffing him?
: riot themselves have made no statements about hong kong at all. people are kinda overreacting to the whole commentators thing, it's probably just people being cautious as some have lost their job just because they were on screen when someone made a statement about it. blizzard simply handled this badly. They should have been more clear and alot milder in their punishment. for starters the commentators should not have been punished at all. the kid should have just gotten a slap on the wrist to set an example. The biggest problem i feel like people seem to forget is that if a company allows this stuff it can backfire hard at another point in time. If one person is allowed to give their political speech/message on their platform, anyone can, even those with less noble intentions. so if someone does it on the lcs i do expect to see some form of punishment, depending on their message i hope it's mild.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XFm7cF6y,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-09T21:23:54.719+0000) > > riot themselves have made no statements about hong kong at all. > people are kinda overreacting to the whole commentators thing, it's probably just people being cautious as some have lost their job just because they were on screen when someone made a statement about it. > > blizzard simply handled this badly. They should have been more clear and alot milder in their punishment. > for starters the commentators should not have been punished at all. the kid should have just gotten a slap on the wrist to set an example. > The biggest problem i feel like people seem to forget is that if a company allows this stuff it can backfire hard at another point in time. If one person is allowed to give their political speech/message on their platform, anyone can, even those with less noble intentions. > > so if someone does it on the lcs i do expect to see some form of punishment, depending on their message i hope it's mild. I disagree firmly. Blizzard's actions are deliberate in their harshness. What Blizzard is concerned about is (and only is) the possibility to enter the juicy Chinese mobile games market with Diablo Immortal. So they show themselves mean and strong against a dude and a couple of random casters in order to please as much as possible their soon to be Chinese overlords. I even doubt the Chinese excerpted any explicit and implicit pressure here. "Look how firmly we defended your stance on the matter, now please, let us sell our questionable quality product to your workers"
: > [{quoted}](name=LatetotheRace,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EkfQFsut,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-10T06:24:25.771+0000) > > Sounds like a good thing to me, honestly. Not trying to be a jerk or confrontational, but I want to know why that sounds good to you.
Some appreciate a company, an institution, or an individual standing for ideals, despite of disadvantageous financial retaliation and negative consequences. I understand your point of view, money is very important and losing it by any means means doing something wrong in businesses. So they should comply with any money givers demands, whatever they are. I don't like that. There is a limit, in my opinion. Past that limit, we stand for what we truly believe in, with no compromises.
: > [{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HEAKjxbA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-08T16:45:23.635+0000) > > They are trying to have a universal launcher for their catalog of games like Blizzard Launcher, Epic Games launcher, GOG, or Steam. A single hub where you can click on any of the numerous titles by Riot Game**s**. That's all. Ah, yes. The numerous titles by Riot Games. -League of Legends -???
> [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HEAKjxbA,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-10-08T19:10:44.953+0000) > > Ah, yes. The numerous titles by Riot Games. > -League of Legends > -??? - League of Legends - TFT - mobile League of Legends, for PC - League of Legends card game, coming 2021 - League of Legends fighting game, coming 2022 - League of Legends MMORPG, coming in 2123
: Darkin Invasion in Freljord
If I recall correctly, sometime ago a Rioter stated that Aatrox (and by extension, all the darkin and ascended) is able, and did, kill godlike beings alike Volibear. This is further corroborated by the recent piece of lore where Aatrox straight up murdered an Aspect, Pantheon, which is safe to assume to be at least on par with a northern spirit God. But then again, Aatrox was defeated by a mortal man wielding the godly powers of a dead deity, so Aatrox powers can't be stated as superiors to the ones of an Aspect. Given Lissandra feats, including negotiating a deal with the ursine and freezing the Watchers in dark true ice, I also feel her power level is comparable to that of the above mentioned groups. All this to say that in a battle involving northern spirit Gods, Aspects, Darkins, Ascended and Lissandra the winner is absolutely not decided from the start. So an horde of darkins could have very well not only ravaged the frejilord, but also done that **despite the resistance** of all the spirit Gods and Lissandra. We also have the wolf darkin explicitly collocated in the north. I know that leagues lore is retconned on a weekly basis, but that information undeniably states that darkins reached, and were able to remain, in that land for some time. I doubt that the stars aligned so much for them that they didn't have to fight the entirety of the animal pantheon of the north.
: You're right 200%...... and yet, look at that, you're being downvoted. Unfortunately, this game is appealing to a specific market of tweens, and most tweens are into sexy/cute characters. It takes a more mature, adult approach to appreciate "ugly" or unusual character design. This is why many PS4 games feature realistic-looking characters; because PS4 games are often aimed to middleaged people. F2P moba games like League, however, are primarly aimed at kids, and this shows in the character design now. And this is why you're being downvoted, and I will be downvoted too: kids love them sexy/cute anime characters. And they're this game's target audience now.
I wouldn't mind having a majority of league champions falling in the "likeable by a teenager" category. What I can't stand is when this mentality actively hinders and ruins what a champion is supposed to deliver. League has too many champions, it can afford to be different sometimes instead of copypasting the same female features over and over. Does Kaisa spell "survivor" while looking at her pretty face, her perfect makeup and a conveniently shaped V-neck made out of an actual void parasite fused with her skin? Does Sylas actually gives any hint of being a prisoner, outside the chains? He's straight out of a Calvin Klein commercial, too good for someone who is supposed to have spent his whole life abused in a dark cell. Those are only two examples where I feel an artistic direction free of marketing logic would have benefited greatly the final result of the intended fantasy.
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