: Yes there is. Support is an established role that is now enforced to exist unless you get a permission to play differently from your team. If you get the support role, you do not have the right to play differently than how the role is intended to play out without your team's permission. That is a rule.
A team can have more than one Support (see Ivern or any of the funnel-strat/supp Tops); however, I've never seen a team win with less than one Support (at least on Ranked)....
: >The only thing troll is how disgustingly OP AP items have been for the past 2 seasons. They haven't though. >Factually false. It is factually correct. The champions that have their basic attacks be affected by ap are a very small minority and even then, most of the effects come from spells like teemo's e. On a quick glance, morde seems to be the only champion with ap ratio on his basic attacks from his actual passive and not a passive of a spell.
The change to how AP champs damage Towers with autos; they use their AP to calculate damage. That said, this ONLY applies to Towers, so whilst _technically_ it's their AP applying to autos, it's also a pointless thing to bring up talking about champs and itemisation.
: a few different kind of low elo mistakes i see all the time
Ignoring the benefits of an early {{item:3076}} /{{item:3123}} against sustain/heal comps or lanes. Still going full damage Top/Jungle on Brawlers even when horrifically behind. Not warding. Using knockback skills at stupid times. TPing to minions right next to the laner that just killed them when said enemy laner is still at full/almost full HP. Going for Baron when they could end the game outright. Calling for Baron when the only survivors on their team are low sustained damage champs (like a tank jung, a burst mage and their support).
: > [{quoted}](name=JustA kleo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oJdWk7ye,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-02-18T18:48:13.548+0000) > > not an ahri main but electrocute is pretty good on her. > > what is ga? guardian angel? {{item:3026}} Sorry I should've been more specific I forgot about Guardian Angel lmao, I meant Glacial Augment.
It mostly comes down to how you play her: if you're poking more and playing more like a mage, Electrocute tends to fare better; Glacial works better with a more assassin-y playstyle where you pick of lone squishies. If you know you have a large mobility advantage (like you're against a Xerath or Lux or Malz) you can take Electrocute to increase your damage output; whereas Glacial is usefult for slowing down dashy assassins so you can land Charm.
: Mmr RESET for 50 000 blue essence PogU
: > [{quoted}](name=Jng Account,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PArEIWA6,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-18T16:47:04.125+0000) > > Any proof or just your word? > > Also. Skipping, while playing only +-5 brackets from your rank? Keep dreaming. This change isnt touching you in the slightest way. What lp gains are you expecting from that rank difference? 40? 50? lol... > > If you are gold playing vs dias, then it is affecting you, but it would also mean that you are probably smurf, so it would prove that it works. Proof of what? look at every single challenger streamer that's ranking up all their accounts right now, look at the fucking article in this thread, how much more proof do you need? You have IWillDominate for example not skipping d4-d2, you have Tyler1 not skipping on an account that he started in gold, these changes are universally terrible for the game, like every other change they've made this season, they're just trying to kill the game, and it's working, I've never seen this many people vocal about quitting, hell I don't even play anymore after trying to play through preseason and january
> [{quoted}](name=RAT IN GAME UwU ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PArEIWA6,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-18T18:17:39.000+0000) > > Proof of what? look at every single challenger streamer that's ranking up all their accounts right now, look at the fucking article in this thread, how much more proof do you need? You have IWillDominate for example not skipping d4-d2, you have Tyler1 not skipping on an account that he started in gold, > > these changes are universally terrible for the game, like every other change they've made this season, they're just trying to kill the game, and it's working, I've never seen this many people vocal about quitting, hell I don't even play anymore after trying to play through preseason and january As Redmercy pointed out a few days ago, one of Faker's alts is stuck in Dia with a 47% WR...
JRobin31 (NA)
: It seems like the OP would like it to take fewer games to on his main account to earn Diamond than he would have to play on a new account. How many games should it take on a new account to get to D2?
Well if he was Diamond last Season then yeah, it should take fewer games, because he has already proven he's at that level.
: No. Keep playing normals until you understand, at the bare minimum, the basics of the game. Like runes, item builds, map awareness, last hitting, wave control. BTW {{item:3152}} Protobelt rush is superior to {{item:3100}} Lichbane rush on FIzz. {{item:3020}} Sorc shoes is way higher value on him than defensive boots. He doesn't even really need Lichbane most games. And Electrocute is his standard keystone, but I could see Conqueror working.
> [{quoted}](name=ProphetOfDraven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4aosyeJH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-02-17T00:00:34.842+0000) > > No. Keep playing normals until you understand, at the bare minimum, the basics of the game. Like runes, item builds, map awareness, last hitting, wave control. > > BTW {{item:3152}} Protobelt rush is superior to {{item:3100}} Lichbane rush on FIzz. {{item:3020}} Sorc shoes is way higher value on him than defensive boots. He doesn't even really need Lichbane most games. And Electrocute is his standard keystone, but I could see Conqueror working. In terms of Fizz, Lich is a nice item to round out your build; you want the early Proto for the gap-close and the added survivability, and probably then either a Banshee's or a Zhonya's depending on the matchup. After those and fully upgraded boots is where you might opt for a Lichbane if you don't need to rush something like a Morello to deal with a heal-comp. In terms of Ranked you probably should wait a while longer before playing, for a few reasons: 1. You do need a better understanding of the game in Ranked compared to Normals: not just your champion, but also farming (like when to set up waves pushing vs freezing), lane matchups in general (mage vs assassin compared to mage vs mage, that kinda thing) and macro play (where you should be and when, when to help on an objective vs when to simultaneously push a second objective instead). 2. You need to be able to flex into all Roles at an approximately equal level on at least 3 champions. Autofill is a thing, and unless you play Support and Jungle every game you are going to be put in another Role eventually, so you'll need to function there. Now, no one sane is expecting you to be as good at an Off-Role as your Main Role, you just need to be able to hold your own and let the people who are in their Main Roles get ahead to the point they can help you. You need at least 3 champions in each Role due to bans, counterpicks etc, though at the end of the day it is better to stick with a champion you are good at in a Role rather than taking a counterpick you aren't too good at. 3. This you may already have, but if you don't, you are gonna need to develop mental fortitude to play Ranked. The toxicity is very definitely worse there, because the games mean more (and if you are of the opinion 'Hey, it's just a game' I'd recommend not going to Ranked at all). What you really need is the ability to see flame and either ignore it or mute that player, rather than just out-trolling them because you decided to take justice into your own hands (because all that does is tank your Rank as well as theirs and risk you getting a ban). Flaming is bad and I don't condone it, but inting and afking are worse. You'll also need to be prepared to play out games you think are lost; you can start a Surrender vote on cooldown if you want, but if the vote is continue to play, you continue to try your hardest until you lose, surrender or win. If you don't think you can do that, then list for a Normal. I played Normals and ARAMs for probably 2-3 years before I started Ranked, and whilst I'm not going to mandate people wait that long, it certainly helped to generally have a good idea of what I was doing in a few Roles, though I started out trying far too hard to be an ADC Main when what I'm actually best at is Support. My recommendation is to find your Role and main champions in Normals; get it to the point you win more than you lose on them and then consider using them for Ranked. Riot also pushed very hard at the start of this Season for people to try Ranked, and this was a terrible idea; what happened was a lot of newer people to the game went into Ranked against people who knew the game well, and the new players got stomped and flamed so hard that they'll probably never touch Ranked again, possibly even quitting LoL from the experience. If you go into Ranked and do things like running Heal Ignite on an immobile mage Mid, or refusing to buy boots on any champion except Yuumi, you WILL get flamed and you WILL get stomped and you WILL have a bad time. And you will have an especially bad time if you attempt to either Jungle without Smite or to Support without one of the 4 Support Items.... I still see the odd low level account piloted by a new player in my games and the ones that make these kind of basic mistakes invariably lose the game and are hard flamed for the entire time.
: I think Riot just wants you to play whatever character is newest.
No; they want you to play whatever's newest OR flashiest; look at the ridiculous string of buffs Lee gets every year before Worlds.... They either want you to spend money (an idea I understand but their lack of principles on how to persuade you ironically persuades me not to), or to give them free advertising in the form of flashy montages.
: No, you should be punished in anyway possible for playing brand support.
You missed most of the text there buddy..... I hate Brand 'Support' every bit as much as you, but OP's not wrong that getting penalised for defending Base/Towers, especially after the second upgrade, feels like absolute shite.
Kai Guy (NA)
: All 3 keystones are solid. Every bracket has at least 2 good options. I politely but firmly disagree with you. I will not downvote you for this disagreement.
The issue with the Resolve tree is that it's great for Support Tanks and sup-optimal for most solo Tanks or tank-like things. Even if a Keystone is ok, sometimes (especially for Junglers) some of the other tiers are lacking in a good option.
Xonra (NA)
: Tenacity in general is kinda bad right now and it isn't "Free" as someone else said.
The problem is the frequency of Displacement, the CC that ignores Tenacity
Saezio (EUNE)
: For the same reason tanks were shafted in the entire Runes Reforged fiasco. The one good thing about tanky runes was that you could go resolve+inspiration to gain a pretty solid amount of HP. Well...that's gone.. But you can have 5hp at level 1 ;) Riot just doesn't want to see tanks be tanky. They don't want teamfights to last. They don't want another season like all the tank seasons. I mean, I get it, but I think there would be other ways to make the game more interesting for the kids other than making it's fight duration resemble the one of Unreal tournament. xD
: in all honesty if a game goes beyond 35 mins im mentally checked out after that. the sweet spot is 25-30ish mins for a game
Then maybe strategy games are n't for you, and that's what a MOBA essentially is, a single-unit strategy game.
: It's actually harder for smurfs to rank up now too. I've seen challenger smurfs destroy the game but sense their team is so bad they cant do it all
> [{quoted}](name=RyzeRework,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0EeUmQY2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2020-02-16T11:19:57.543+0000) > > It's actually harder for smurfs to rank up now too. I've seen challenger smurfs destroy the game but sense their team is so bad they cant do it all Much as I hate smurfs and smurfing as a concept, this is true, and has been shown by multiple streamers and Youtubers; a few days ago Redmercy showed that one of Faker's alt accounts as stuck in Diamond with a 47% winrate.
iiGazeii (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HideSide,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PYdmOGEV,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-16T16:23:18.800+0000) > > Exactly and the thing Is that no one can engage on her. Maybe zed, but thats all... She has big range to play nearby her tower and, as you said, she Is as dmg support strong in early + she has range avantage even against ranged champions and you cant invade to her safe position... You have no other choice than to win while playing on her terms. THAT is actually the reason why I think that she Is MISTAKE. She is the real example of word overloaded, not Lee but her... She has so many things that you have no choice left how to deal with and not Lee Sin. She doesnt have trade off nor weakness you can make use of. Here's a handy-dandy list of all the champions that can get on Senna: {{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:246}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:238}} Her shroud is not a good escape. The delay is long af, the cooldown is long af, and it doesn't hide her when enemies are already in her face. The movement speed is paltry, and doesn't give her enough space to get away from an enemy on top of her. Her root is also not an effective form of self-peel. It's incredibly easy to sidestep, and even if it does, there's a delay before it activates, giving enemies a moment to fully commit or reevaluate the engage. Senna also can't kite or dodge well. Her slow attacks mean she's stuck in place for a long time, so she can't stutter step like another marksman would. They also make her incredibly vulnerable to skillshots. Any time she stops for an attack is an opportunity to chunk her, stun her, or hook her. She has a ton of weaknesses. Just because you aren't exploiting them doesn't mean they're not there. Any champion with powerful skillshots or a hard engage can crush her.
Blitz should also be in there, although technically he doesn't get on her, she gets on him....
: {{champion:111}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:53}} These champions counter all other supports besides tanks in the current meta and are hard to kill. Other supports can't do anything in lane if you have your method of engage up, period. One hook and they're dead. You are also very hard to gank compared to most lanes, which will likely make the enemy jungler ignore your lane. So you can stare at each other for the laning phase. It isn't fun, but it gets you through laning phase. Your jungler will be more likely to gank for you as well because again, against non-tanks, engage supports can get some easy kills. You could also play a mage support, BUT, **only if the enemy doesn't pick an engage support**. If your ADC is trash and the enemy is an engage support, then you're both going to be crying under tower. You'll be zoned out so fast if the ADC is playing poorly. **EDIT**: I just looked at your itemization for Soraka, and it's completely wrong. You can carry a bad ADC as Soraka, but it's a little harder than with the above champions. You have less room for error. However, your build on Soraka is hurting you rather than helping you. I've gotten to Gold playing only Soraka support solo. There's no reason to ever buy Ludens Echo outside ARAM. Twin Shadow and Banshee's Veil should not ever be consistent buys on Soraka either, especially not first buys. There's no reason for you to depart from the Ardent Censor + Redemption meta in the games I'm seeing. Your Soraka build should be pretty standard. The only thing you have liberty buying early game is the type of boots you want. Building straight AP on Soraka is not going to do anything but put you further behind because you don't have burst damage. You already have the tools early game to be a lane bully (albeit less so now that she was nerfed due to top lane), so at least buy Ardent and Redemption first before you go getting creative. Soraka is a lane bully that transitions into a dedicated healer, so you need healing items. Finally you should always be buying this {{item:3364}} as soon as you finish your ward quest, and I always buy at least 4 of these {{item:2055}} per game, typically more because I'll be the only one on the team with slot space for it.
Basically this; if your ADC is trash tier, get through the Laning Phase and then Support your team as a whole. A team can never have too much engage, and engage/pick tanks are obviously the best for it.
: > [{quoted}](name=afmghost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0LHfuUIb,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-02-13T01:23:26.645+0000) > > MMR should not be a thing in ranked. If it is, people need to stop taking it seriously. What the fuck? lmao
> [{quoted}](name=Bronze Bonanza,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0LHfuUIb,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2020-02-13T01:36:15.194+0000) > > What the fuck? lmao MMR should absolutely be a thing; what should not be a thing is a partial decoupling of the two; people should have a Rank directly correwsponding to their MMR, not be in Gold with a Silver MMR thanks Demotion Protection or in Plat with a Diamond MMR thanks to a few shitty Promo Series.
: Top: {{champion:157}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:875}} Yasuo's repetitive auto q auto trade pattern from outside other melee characters ranges, infinite dashes, ranged cc, and free shield are annoying enough on their own, but getting 100% crit from just 1 and a half items (making his damage from ult into effectively all true damage) put him far past the tipping point. Tryndamere just ignores the game and forces everything to revolve around him Sett not needing to even stack his grit to do more true damage with his W than most characters get as magic or physical on lesser range abilities, it basically negates the entire point of his counterplay. On top of that being a tank killer at a point in the game where tanks have already been struggling for 2 years straight is just asinine. Jungle: {{champion:245}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:107}} Just the typical smurf champions seen in the role so it shouldn't be surprising. They all take advantage of the shitty early level invades that unorganized teams can't react to, but there's a special place in hell for Ekko jungle players particularly. Mid: {{champion:157}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:84}} Yasuo has all the same cancer as his top lane play with his free shield and dashes, but on top of that gets to be immune to characters' entire kits mid thanks to windwall. Talon is like a corollary to Tryndamere. Where tryndamere ignores the rest of the game and splitpushes 24/7, Talon ignores his own lane after his cheesy level 2 first blood and just picks up free kills with his global threat of one shotting. Akali nerfs honestly did nothing. She still does twice as much damage level 1 with Q and passive as any other character and still dashes around endlessly in late game fights picking off targets. Now with 60s cooldown ults that do 120 extra base damage for even more cancer! Bot: {{champion:145}} {{champion:523}} {{champion:498}} No surprises here. All three are still grossly overtuned in raw damage and utility, and all three snowball out of control more than any other character in the role. Support: {{champion:555}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:63}} (and collectively all APC "supports") The spooky water hook brothers both make lane phase incredibly boring with bush camping to fish for cheesy kills, which are practically guaranteed if they land a hook thanks to their base damage and the ensuing free autos they grant their ADC. Mage supports as a whole, though highlighting Brand since his awful AP ratios and 0 trading potential without giving up CS practically ask him to be played in the role. The radius and cast time of his W actually make the ability impossible to dodge if he just casts it centered on an opponent with less than 400 MS or a dash, while dealing ridiculous damage at very low risk (since he doesn't have to worry about giving up W's waveclear power).
> [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4zefWAx,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2020-02-12T16:53:57.663+0000) > > The spooky water hook brothers This is gold and I am 100% stealing it
: This board is a vote for star guardians to get toggles on ther're wings,
While I wholeheartedly agree (though I don't really use SG skins myself), I do have to point out... it's 'their' ('they're' is short for 'they are')
: > [{quoted}](name=Hydroxlic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E6u6O4Rg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-02-12T19:17:08.766+0000) > > I think of them as 2 different things really. Tenacity affects CC that is ground based, so Slows, Snares, Roots, Etc. Where as Knock ups are in the air, it's not an easy thing to reduce the time your literally in the air compared to reducing the time your touching the ground and even then most knock ups don't last that long compared to most other forms of CC. Which makes one question why knockup abilities are even a thing.
The idea of CC that bypasses tenacity is ok; the issue is how much of it there is. Displacement (i.e. knockups, knock asides, knockbacks) are essentially TrueCC, and like True Damage have a place, but should be very, very rare.
: Could Font of Life be changed to 1% of the user's Max HP per second over 2 seconds?
I've seen well over 1.5k on my W-Max Athene's Lux, with Font of Life and Revitalise feeding into each other.
Pyrosan (NA)
: The board's admins don't think there's any vote manipulation going on
Just watched a large amount of threads I'd commented on suddenly go from like +30 to -15. They were steadily gaining for about an hour, then in the last half hour all tanked to almost exactly the same point (all -10 to -20). There is either a bot, or a forum warrior with a lot of free time and even more accounts..... Judging by the lack of new comments on the tanked threads it's a bot.
: > [{quoted}](name=UlyssesISR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W3mxN5Eq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-02-09T08:53:05.816+0000) > > Honestly the concept behind champions being designed for or dedicated to X lane is stupid. Makes the game stale because no matter what season it is, "Tanks go here, healers go there, dps goes there, and.......that's it!" > > Yeah no. Shake up the meta. I get that, but when something is unfun to play against it should be dealt with ASAP. No one minds champs finding new positions they're viable in if they're not bullshit like Soraka is rn (or how Viktor top or Karma top were in the past).
You say that, but Yasuo still exists with his shitty Windwall. In fact most CT champs are absolutely shite to play against, and _that_ is why Yas is my usual permaban. I do agree with you, it's just Riot doesn't...
: Did he look up his profile or something? Do people actually check during hero select? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
> [{quoted}](name=Dreamspitter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=orp61i5l,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-02-09T08:40:07.479+0000) > > Did he look up his profile or something? > > Do people actually check during hero select? > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} Yes; yes they do
HideSide (EUNE)
: How to fix this game?
I'd start by reverting Runes Reforged and split it back into Runes and Masteries; RR was Masteries Reforged, and it added nothing. Masteries used to be picked optimal for your champion, and Runes were picked for the specific matchup (armour Runes into AD vs MRes Runes into AP, etc). You had cheesy shit like Crit Runes Gangplank; the guy who itroduced me to LoL had a full crit Nasus page. All of this disappeared when RR came in; you are often forced to choose between optimal for the champion and optimal for the matchup, often leading to either sacrificing laning phase or endgame for the other. The issue with Runes was their cost, and how that kinda fucked over newer players, and there was an easy solution to this; make 'em free. Instead Riot decided to kick diversity in the teeth and begin the death spiral of snowballing damage that this game has become. The Community said this was what would happen, and Riot ignored them. I will also say this, not that the free solution wouldn't have led to the same place; the change to Runes has led to a huge increase in Smurfs and probably a slight-to-moderate increase in account selling...
: We need a way to report people for not going their designated lane. That being said, its hard to make a votekick system that won't be abused as a free dodge whenever you don't like enemy/ally team comps. Now, "i int" should result in instant punishment even if typed in lobby. "I int"-> autododge 1 sec later because player left because he was instabanned, easy
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NdM5T2jv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-02-09T14:05:42.835+0000) > > We need a way to report people for not going their designated lane. I actually made a thread about this a few weeks ago, and I was told that the intended way of reporting it is 'Intentional Feeding' with details in the comment box. Counterintuitive I know, but there it is....
: I lost my promos and my last loss was equal to -38 lp?
Was it 2 losses and 0 wins, or did you win one Promo in your Series? If it's 2 losses 0 wins then yeah, that's why you've lost 2 matches worth of LP.
: So having an opinion that is similar to his is a virus. Mk. Pretty sure free speech is a thing, and im pretty sure there are plenty of toplaners who echo the same shit Hash does, but dont like him. Just saying.
Hashinshin is like a broken clock; occasionally right mostly by accident. Just because he's said it doesn't mean Top doesn't have serious balance issues (because it really does).
Pika Fox (NA)
: Soraka doesnt have the capability to bully out a juggernaut or a bruiser. Theyre too durable and will dumpster her. She also lacks proper self sustain, especially against the damage she would take from a jax, fiora, sett, garen, nasus etc. In a solo lane she also needs to farm, so you can just zone her out and theres nothing she can really do about it.
Sort of; she can't really bully anyone with reliable engage, but she also doesn't really need to farm for the items she builds. Speaking from experience, she'll just throw Qs at the waves until she's out of mana and hope it kills the minions.
C0l0urless (EUNE)
: I think limiting the items to 1 per team would be the easiest way to balance them without hurting Support in the process.
Potential problem with this is if someone other than the Support took the item and screwed the Support over; it would all be down to implementation, but I don't know the optimal way of dealing with that (unlike Jungle items and Smite, there is no mandatory Support spell to tie the item to).
Arakadia (NA)
: The rewrite on his bio doesn’t mean the short story is non canon. Sister doesn’t have to mean they are blood related.
Twilight of the Gods also mentions Varus and his sister iirc.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=TSM Reptilian,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i3lUpEN4,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-02-05T07:51:22.234+0000) > Oh,and speaking of Tahm Kench you gutted him as a support because he was broken and overpowered when played top lane.It's very funny that the very same thing is happening to Soraka as well.And it's pretty funny since she was already struggling in a coin toss lane that is monopolized by top tier supports like Nautilus and Leona. No-no-no. He was gutted as Support to make room for buffs for Top Tahm. He turned out to be a super oppressive pick on Top, which needed to be gutted, so the balance team ended up making him both his main role and off-role hideously bad.
As well as Ally-Devour ruining all those #BigPlays for the viewers....
: > [{quoted}](name=Towboat421,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=o9gEcEEv,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2020-02-04T19:19:02.036+0000) > > I shouldnt have to talk to you like a 3 year old to get you to play the game and i'm not going to, if you feed and behave like a jackass i'm not going to grovel and beg you to stop imma call it like it is and move on. or you could just... not say anything and move on? rule 14 of the internet -- don't feed the trolls.
> [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=o9gEcEEv,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2020-02-04T19:27:14.564+0000) > > or you could just... not say anything and move on? > rule 14 of the internet -- don't feed the trolls. Did...did you not read what he wrote to the end?
: PSA: Wanting to surrender is NOT inherently "Giving Up" and is not reportable as such.
Depends entirely on when you want to surrender: when the enemy has 4 drakes to your 0, most of your Towers are gone, and then they secure both Elder and Baron, surrender calls there are fine; if it's because your team is 3 kills down at 10 mins then yeah, that surrender call is kinda pathetic...
: Tahm legit hardbullied many champions, while Soraka doesn't even try to have presence in the lane. Very different situation.
Also, he was gutted because as a Support he was ruining so many #BigPlays....
: > **We Need More Report Options** > > Specifically, we need to split 'Griefing/Giving Up' into a few different options. I think, before trying to expand the report options, one really needs to understand exactly what those report options are for. In this case, you're only reading the subtitle/description text of the report option, which is actually labeled as **Negative Attitude**. And while it says "griefing" as part of the description, which is a word commonly associated with negative gameplay behavior synonymous with trolling, the actual use of the report option is for excessive negativity and defeatism - basically, disruptive communications that ruin morale without being inflammatory. That said, I don't really agree that **Negative Attitude** needs to be split off into more report categories, and I'll explain why; > 1) Giving Up - What it says on the tin Depending on what you interpret "giving up" to mean, the **Negative Attitude** report already covers it. As I mentioned, **Negative Attitude** involves defeatism and excessive negativity; calling early GGs, complaining that the match is lost, calling to Surrender and badgering others to vote "yes"...Etc. **Bear in mind:** This does _not_ mean that opening Surrender votes is punishable. It is not against the rules to open Surrender votes, no matter how many times it's done. _It's only when the negativity spills out into the chat with the player whining and trying to convince others to surrender that it becomes a problem._ > 2) Throwing - There are plenty of ways of losing a game intentionally without feeding intentionally or going afk. Split pushing into suicide repeatedly, avoiding all objectives so your team loses every fight over them. All things that could just look like bad calls, if it wasn't for the fact that they choose the worst option every single time (sure everyone makes bad calls, but to always make the bad call requires effort). This is already covered by the **Intentional Feeding** category, which covers _all_ gameplay-related offenses. Active non-participation, sabotage, etc. constitutes what's known as "soft-inting", and that all is punishable when reported as **Intentionally Feeding**. Also worth pointing out on the subject of throwing; _this includes "opening lanes"._ Opening lanes equates to throwing the match and sabotaging your team's chances of winning, and like soft-inting, is punishable. > 3) Role Stealing - Stealing someone's lane, full AP 'Supports' stealing farm, laners taking Smite and stealing camps off their own Jungler. This also is already covered by the **Intentional Feeding** category, since that category includes trolling, which includes role theft. It's important to note as a reminder, with the sheer breadth of gameplay misbehavior that's possible in League, one of the biggest ways you can help to ensure trolls and intentional feeders are punished is to use the comment box in the report screen. Giving a clear and concise description of how the player trolled can make a world of difference in catching trolls. > 4) Banning Someone's Pick - Never underestimate the power of a placebo. Essentially it would do nothing, unless the individual reported was doing it every single game (i.e. doing it to troll rather than wanting to block a powerful pick from falling to the opposition). Like 2 and 3, this is functionally redundant, since gameplay misbehavior (and consequently, the **Intentional Feeding** category) can extend into pre-game behavior as well, provided that the pre-game shenanigans can be proven to have malicious intent. > And honestly; Unskilled Player coming back probably would reduce the number of false Int Feeding reports. I'll say that I'm doubtful of that, but people work in mysterious ways. Regardless, even if it did reduce false **Intentional Feeding** reports, it would have to do more than that and have some actual legitimate use for it to stand as a valid report option.
Ah, see, a lot of those things that are apparently Intentional Feeding are probably usually reported in Griefing, because for example you can easily steal someone's Role and still play to win. I think if that is the category for those reports to go into, it should be made clear somewhere, or the category needs a name update.
Comentários de Rioters
Saezio (EUNE)
: IDK, I literally just played AP wukong and none said even one line to me. I was terrible. Not a single chat line or missing ping. Maybe I am just super lucky
Oh, the toxicity there isn't in every game, that's for certain; but it is still in some.
Cael (NA)
: I don't know what to do...
The problem is that Riot threw everyone into lower Ranks this year at Season start, to make up for their fuck ups at the beginning of last Season. So those 'Silvers' you are playing against and with could be anywhere from Gold to Plat in prior Seasons. But of course, since they're also playing against eachother, essentially like they were last Season, they're gonna take forever to climb out.
2gudaiya (NA)
: stop changing champions and stick with one champion till you can get 10 wins on a row with them. only then do you have permission to try another champ.
I'd say you need to find a champion you are ok (good stats on wins, not bad stats on losses) at first; if I only played Zed until I got a 10 win streak I'd be playing Zed for the next 2 Seasons, because I'm good at engage tank and backline artillery only....
: > [{quoted}](name=2ndComingOfUrMom,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=u2bzQp90,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-30T15:16:06.581+0000) > > You made the right choice. This game needs to die. And yet you are still here...
> [{quoted}](name=SoloGarenFTW,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=u2bzQp90,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-30T15:21:07.272+0000) > > And yet you are still here... The addiction is real; if Paragon was still alive I'd certainly have swapped.
Quinnova (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mKZ5AzmK,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2020-01-30T14:30:48.895+0000) > > When aren't top laners frustrated by the meta? Do they actually play the game or just complain about it? perhaps toplaners are always frustrated with the meta because the meta always fucks them over. it's really not that hard to figure this out. playing toplane sucks and has sucked for several seasons now.
I'm a Support Main, and having played Top to try to climb out of Riot's moronic pushback they gave everyone at Season start, I can safely say Toplaners have a very valid point.
Saezio (EUNE)
: I get it, you prefer tactical play and not mechanical play as much. I am the same, I can't for the life of me play aphelios/irelia/akali and those kinda champs to their full potential. (granted 99% of the time I play aram so I never play a champ 2 games in a row, because it feels like it's way more balanced than SR right now) I play since season 2 or so, just play aram mate. You get to play all champs, you never see toxicity, and you get to avoid laning vs cancers/ganks. None blames you for building crazy shit. It's amazing.
Speeedy (NA)
: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2020/01/lcs-anonymous-survey/
Most impactful =/= strongest. If someone ints 10 kills in 15 minutes into the enemy Zed mid, they are the most impactful player in the game; they are not the strongest, they are the worst. There's a reason the last few Seasons have been referred to as 'weakest player loses'
: Playing solo support in low ELO is really difficult unless you're playing a mage support or Nautilus/Leona. In my recent games I've had two AFKs in a single game, a Kayn who does 10k damage in a 35 min game, a primadonna jungler who AFK farmed and a 1/8/1 Akali at 16 mins in the same game. There are so many KDA gamers, so many AFK rage split pushers, and so many people willing to feed the worst champions like Diana or Mordekaiser. Another issue I have in general is that junglers are just so unwilling to work with me bot lane. I can set up for them so well, and they just will not come even when it's a guarantee kill. I started to experience this towards the end of last season, but this season it's so much worse. You would think that dragon priority would be enough to make them get away from camping top, but nope. My junglers just love to camp for top, which is fine sometimes. I can hold bot as long as we don't get a 4 man gank + rift herald called on us, but when our top laner sucks, they just do not want to change up their strat. If you politely tell them they need to change it up, then they freak out and AFK farm even if it is multiple people telling them to. They will force us to lose trying to break top lane with pressure. Either bot lane or mid finally breaks and we're left turtling the game with our inhibitor towers while they have so many dragons, and my jungler without fail is like, "How did this happen?" I know it's a demanding role, but Jesus. I haven't really figured out how to solve that problem because it's relatively new for me in ranked. I always just play for ranked rewards and that's it.
I've literally given up Support Maining below Gold; I'm only a Gold tier player, but I can't climb doing Support this Season at all. Just spamming Cait or Sett, whichever lane I feel like playing, and hoping I get the 1 competent Jungler allowed per game by Riot....
VonCesaw (NA)
: Jungle is now meant to be a vehicle to get assassins enough farm to go and assassinate people while making 'sick plays' Objectives are easy when you blow up a lane and get the laner to come help you with it If you enjoy junglers that are : Full tanks {{champion:113}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:72}} Bulky non-juggernauts {{champion:48}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:106}} Misc champs that aren't full burst or damage {{champion:79}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:120}} You don't get to play the game, the jungle is no longer for you. There's only a select set if you want to play the (decidedly important) role anymore AD Casters/Assassins {{champion:64}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:107}} AP Assassins {{champion:245}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:102}} Stealth Champs in general {{champion:121}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:28}} Champs that Riot forced either into the jungle, or BACK into the jungle {{champion:30}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:104}}
Not wrong, but aren't Trundle and Voli archetypical Juggernauts?
Kai Guy (NA)
: Let me be very clear of my bias, I want Riot to invest and improve behavior systems to lower the # of trashed games. Good MM won't account for Shitty behavior. "But A large number of folks are not gonna like this. It takes away the modern day Elo hell excuses of "forced 50"% The only people who benefit from forced 50% are players who want to justify the gap between achieved rank and personal belief in their skill." Having players who give up in game and know that leave buster is gonna flag them if they rage quit and afk results in a lot of soft afk behaviors of running around splitting and farming jungles. Evading fights and ignoring the enemy team as they take advantage of the 5v4. Players who give up accountability on trying to make any impact in a game are highly negative for that match. So "next please" "battleroyal" style players and folks who "GG Rito wanted me to lose. FF @9" when they see FB on the other team Suck. They generate shitty games. That's why I keep trying to explain how the systems work and what they do. Many people don't understand the basic theory at all, they generate their opinions off the frequency of "OMG SHIT MM" threads. They listen to people who tell them provably bullshit arguments. Because it often serves as a way to bridge the gap between the rank people think they deserve and the ranks they achieved. But Elo hell in any iteration promotes giving up. Game looks like its going south and folks just stop trying. This adds more snowball to the game because if 1 role loses and 2 teammates stop trying its a fucked match. Hence point out the systems and math. Pointing out how riot can oh so easily control ladder climb with their LP and Ranks with out even needing to touch their MM formulas. > Taking your football example each team can **be simplified down to a single entity** because the members remain roughly constant; Yes, I tried to account for this in my post. The reason People should start with elo is if they are not fimilar with the mathematics behind how and why this kind of Skill raiting works. Elo's work is a great place to start learning. "The issue with** Elo is that its not great at dealing with things that cant be treated as 1 unit**. Which is why it is weak to use for leagues RNG 5v5 Ques, this shows up really clearly if you run a simulation. There's solutions and please understand I am not claiming a Hard port of Elo is at all being used. (Elo being a Skill rating system not a MM system.)" At the most basic you find that Equal K values for all players on a team is not good. Not every teammate carries the same steaks in the outcome of a match as not every player contributes equally. You can look at the 2007 TrueSkill publication for more information on how that's done. > As you say, devs are now working on lowering calibration times, but I really don't get the feeling that Riot's devs are some of them.... Oh they probably do but again they don't want to have players see the time it takes. People get discouraged and play less. Riot wants them to remain motivated and play more. They incentivize participation heavily. They target Perception frequently. A better skill rating system and more accurate one gives them better ability to control Rates of climb on their Ladder because your Rank progression moves at different rates. So pragmatically I think its done because that's the best way to get useable data on how to set your rate of climb for the interactions between Rank and LP. But a lot of gameplay is Player generated content. If the issues in attitudes don't get fixed then I will have to deal with more games like this [one ](https://imgur.com/a/mvXSbx0)where teammate decided to just roll over and give up. And a lot of that's because the mechanics behind leave buster are known variables so if you want to throw a game but don't wanna get banned for AFK the way to do this is common knowledge now. don't afk at fountain. Don't rage quit. Pretend to play until the match has snowballed to a /ff or they smashed your nexus.
Yeah; 'FF go next' mentality is certainly ruining the game every bit as much as shitty MM. There's no real punishment for it as far as I can see, as long as the people giving up stay silent. The game really does need more human oversight at the behavioural level, but I can actually imagine Tencent has told them not to 'waste' money on it.
Kai Guy (NA)
: > We've had the MMR discussion before and basically agreed to disagree on the overall impact of Elo's work and its' application to games more complex than chess. The basic assumptions Elo worked on are solid logic. Remember its already been used for everything from Chess, to Football and Facebook. Its a good starting point for people to get familiarized with the math, logic, and theory used. The issue with Elo is that its not great at dealing with things that cant be treated as 1 unit. Which is why it is weak to use for leagues RNG 5v5 Ques, this shows up really clearly if you run a simulation. There's solutions and please understand I am not claiming a Hard port of Elo is at all being used. (Elo being a Skill rating system not a MM system.) https://imgur.com/a/e8e7tB1 ^ I snagged that from a Starcraft 2 talk. MM formulas are pretty complex. Adjustment formulas are also pretty complex. Things get modified and adapted game to game. Adapting the theory of using a arbitrary number as a representation of "skill" To account for individuals? Advancing the principle behind Elo to be usable for individuals on RNG teams? Published documentation on that going back to at least 2007. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/NIPS2006_0688.pdf I tell folks to learn about Elo first cuz of a quote on a page Microsoft took down that did a layman's explanation of Trueskill. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/?from=https%3A%2F%2Fresearch.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fprojects%2Ftrueskill%2F T.T RIP. That was a handy resource. So many good links at the bottom. The quote being along the lines of if All players have equal uncertainty then the adjustment reduces down to a basic Elo adjustment. Now most devs are looking into better methods to lower the time to "calibrate" https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2018/03/trueskill2.pdf You can probably learn a bit more about what Devs do to trick players and build systems by listening to a dev talk about how to trick players and build systems. Perceptions the name of the game usually. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pglxege-gU
I certainly agree with you that Elo's system is a good place to start, the same way 1v1 games are a good way to learn basic strategies. I also think it's often used in situations it's less suited to without sufficient modification, and since Riot won't say what they're using we have no way of knowing what modifications to it they have made. Taking your football example each team can be simplified down to a single entity because the members remain roughly constant; for non-Clash or pro-play this is not true for League, so Riot can't use a football-optimised system for SoloQ without further modification. As you say, devs are now working on lowering calibration times, but I really don't get the feeling that Riot's devs are some of them....
Kai Guy (NA)
: > argue to opposite; what can they lose by being transparent? **Competitive advantage**. Most companies loath to give their work away to compaction for free. And riot, again, absolutely needs to go over each and every variable if your going to demand transparency. **Exploits **if your trying to use a Bayesian inference model that allows to much player input impact. **Player base**. The Shiny distraction ranks worked well. Population size went up and participation in ranked went up. Like, they absolutely hide it because they don't want it to be public. That's the point. But other Devs use methods like having your MMR for games and your MMR on your account that you see being set to different values. Blizzard for example. Foul play suspicions should not be off if something is possible but if its probable. Its entirely possible for Riot to have Devious MM manipulation for individual players but at the same time Its unlikely. There are simpler methods then what boards users claim over and over. "Forced 50%" Is so much work at stupidly high RNG. My suspicions would be more that Riot wants to hide exactly how catered to casual the majority of their ranked system is built. Anyhow if seeing the math concepts behind MMR systems matter to you. I recommend that you Study Elo first. Then take a look at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/NIPS2006_0688.pdf > But A large number of folks are not gonna like this. It takes away the modern day Elo hell excuses of "forced 50"% The only people who benefit from forced 50% are players who want to justify the gap between achieved rank and personal belief in their skill. Players will cite individual games. Which with RNG and gameplay generated being P v P which is a lot of human influence will make for shit loads of garbage matches, some times in painfully long strings. If you take a step back and look at the ladder overall. Ya can see a clear Skill gaps exist between the tail ends. Which is why I say that if you wanna start improving the issues made by players in individual games then its best to invest into behavior systems. Feel free to ask any questions, this is a topic im interested in. I like probabilities.
We've had the MMR discussion before and basically agreed to disagree on the overall impact of Elo's work and its' application to games more complex than chess. In terms of the playerbase increasing due to the hiding of MMR, I disagree; it was done between Seasons 2 and 3, when they game was still emerging. I'd say it's too early in a game's lifetime to attribute such changes to single factors, when word of mouth and advertising are playing into the initial presence snowball (e.g. I'd never heard of the game until I heard 'Get Jinxed' from a Youtube recommendation and decided to check it out). Also, what is good early in a game's life does not necessarily carry over beyond initial expansion; things like founder/Kickstarter packs are a good example of that.
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