Jaspers (EUW)
: Ah, so a fair few storeys high but not longer a mountain but still sizable. The honour of Ascension, to me, seem to be less honour and more "just create another immortal soldier" with each passing story. Throw everyone in and hope a god comes out. Why not?
Also I have it on good authority that Malphite's around 340 feet tall with a 5% margin of error. So over 100 meters tall, like over 50 times the size of a standard person. So yeah. Big rock.
Jaspers (EUW)
: Ah, so a fair few storeys high but not longer a mountain but still sizable. The honour of Ascension, to me, seem to be less honour and more "just create another immortal soldier" with each passing story. Throw everyone in and hope a god comes out. Why not?
I mean fair, but considering how big and how old the Shuriman Empire was I still feel like it works out. There were 9 that went to face Icathia in that initial bout. If that's how much a mortal army is worth you're looking at somewhere in the realms of a few hundred Ascended.
: Does this mean Ezreal got his gauntlet from a tomb in Ixtal now instead? Or was Ne'Zuk's tomb still located in Shurima?
No he still get it from Shurima. Ne'Zuk's tomb was in far western Shurima, not far off from Nerimazeth. Why was there an empty grave there though? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Yeah I imagine Ne'Zuk probably faked his own death at some point but either way Ez still found the gauntlet in Shurima.
Jaspers (EUW)
: So, is Malphite as big as a mountain? Monolith was as big as a city but Wells has a population of 10,000 and is a city. So Malphite as a shard of the monolith could be no bigger than a house. :P Also, more Ascended and more dieing too. So much for a special rite.
I'd say take his face's size from Roots of a Poisoned Tree as an indication of his true size. Also Shurima had like 2,000 years to gather an army of Ascended, makes sense they'd have a fair number by the time Icathia rebelled.
: Is it the first time we hear about Ne'Zuk? His name sounds familiar
Ezreal's gauntlet once belonged to Ne'Zuk. He also betrayed Horok, whose gauntlet is wielded by Kassadin.
  Comentários de Rioters
: I feel like the easier answer is it’s a fantasy game. Some people are just huge. I doubt they’ll expand on this anytime soon.
I mean they've now explicitly stated Jax is non-human but have yet to specify what race he is. They'll know, but they'll save that for when the details are relevant to the stories being given, so in the future they might wanna expand on it if they introduce another champion of this species, or if they have stories to tell with them. Story with Draven in the reckoning pits where Kato shows up? Might be a good place to include a name for his species.
: How...big can humans get on Runeterra?
Urgot was big in life, and got bigger from augmentation, but Sion, Kato and Farron are...well... According to Scathlocke (Laurie on Twitter) Sion was potentially not human, and instead part of a larger humanoid race: https://twitter.com/LaurieGoulding/status/1217108237620629505 Now of course BIG DISCLAIMER: twitter lore is like red post lore or LoR lore, *potentially* canon but unless shit's on Universe, it's not canon, so this might just be the narrative guys pondering details and this might not actually be the case, but since this did crop up in discussion I figured it was worth noting. So, *potentially*, Sion, and by extension Kato and Farron due to their similar sizes, are part of an as of yet unnamed non-human people.
: I don't know, still seems a little weird to say that. Runeterra is a fantasy world where the only real rules are the ones the writers decide to impose on themselves. The middle east is a huge and diverse place and I'd assume a big fuckoff empire like Shurima would have been too. Besides, saying stuff like that is erring on saying stuff like Lucian shouldn't be black because everyone in Demacia was white until his release. At the end of the day, champions can have whatever features and looks Riot wants them to have. Besides, her beauty doesn't really take that much away from her backstory. If anything it ought to be at least a little uplifting that someone managed to retain their beauty despite their struggles. Being scarred and whatever else is kind of a moot point, Illaoi fights practically everybody and I don't see any scars on her, it just seems to me like there's not much reason to expect it.
In terms of stuff like Lucian, Ekko, Karma, etc, I would expect diversity there because Runeterra's a big place where diversity is just something you'd naturally come to expect. Demacia was founded by refugees from all over the world. Noxus is a multi-contiental empire. Bilgewater is a massive trade hub, as are Piltover and Zaun. Diversity's great and I pretty much expect it in most areas of Runeterra. But in Kai'Sa's case I feel it's the exception. Like Ixtal and parts of the Freljord, the south east of Shurima is a place that feels like it'd be much less likely to see migrants come in. There's no large scale civilizations around Sai Kahleek anymore, natural resources are limited, Rek'Sai lives there and causes major problems for anyone who's even got to think about going near that part of the world, stuff like that. It's not like it's impossible for people to live there, but similarly to how the Freljord's cold enough and hostile enough to basically kill anyone who's even the slightest bit unprepared and how Ixtal's jungles are ready to legitimately eat anyone coming near, the lands around where Kai'Sa lives are, imo, likely to be among the most remote and less ethnically diverse in all of known Runeterra. That's not to say people *can't* move there if they want; Kassadin certainly did, but he did so to live with his wife specifically, and considering how even Rek'Sai's own (very short) indicates how travellers have to go hundreds of miles out of their way to avoid her, I feel like cases like Kassadin are the exception, not the rule. That's my take anyway and tbf, it's probably not gonna be wholly accurate, to put it mildly. It's based on a lot of conjecture on my part so there'll be holes in it, and also your comment's been making me think a lot about my thoughts here. I'm sorry if I offended you with what I said, it definetly wasn't my intention but of course that's no excuse when I've made you feel bad. On another note, the beauty part I'd say does, because she's fighting the mooks of the ultimate big bad of the setting. I'd sort of expect a few scratches here and there, especially with the environment she's in and what her core themes are. If the Voidborn can't even work her hard enough that her hair's not even a little dirty then how big of a threat are they? It's more about how her beauty reflects on the Void and the Voidborn themselves rather than on her.
: But this same idea (that people spread all over the place because Shurima was a world-spanning and trading empire) DOESN'T extend to "white people" in Shurima, becaaaaause.....?
Because the part of Shurima that Kai'Sa's from is one that's far less likely for people to immigrate to it, considering it's remote as fuck, likely doesn't have the best access to resources, and also not *that* far off from Rek'Sai and Icathia proper. Sometimes people can't leave their homes, sometimes they don't want to, it varies. But generally I find that people aren't so willing to go live next to this stuff if they had other options available to them.
: *points at Sivir, who is stated outright to be descended from Azir and has lived her entire life in the Shuriman deserts* There's no clear link between racial identity and geographical location.
I mean, Sivir was also not made a Shuriman originally. She got retconned in to being a Shuriman. Going from lore specifically she's stated as being from The Great Sai, which is far more geographically accessible to the rest of Runeterra than around Sai Kahleek, where Kai'Sa was born. Of course we dunno where specifically in Shurima her dad comes from, but her mum's definetly from the area around Sai Kahleek, and there's no information as to Sivir's parentage other than that she's of Azir's bloodline, but she's also 3,000 years out from Azir, which means she might have had non-Shuriman native or Targonian or Ixtalan or really had ancestors from anywhere in Shurima during that time. Going off of that, I'd say it's not a stretch narratively to seee Sivir and Kai'Sa looking different because of their heritage; they're from opposite sides of the same continent.
: As a fair-skinned middle eastern dude, your line of reasoning that every middle-eastern inspired character has to look like Taliyah is a little fucked up tbh.
And as I stated her being pale skinned isn't so much of an issue, but a lack of features to draw similarities to other people living in the part of the world she comes from. Of course people won't all look exactly the same, but I'd expect Kai'Sa to look a bit more like Taliyah than Lux or Ahri in the facial features department considering they're both Shuriman, specifically from around south eastern Shurima, when in fact the opposite is true. Again, skin tone is whatever, it's everything else.
: I did discuss. Riot doesn't think Kai'sa's lore is problematic. Frankly, neither do I.
You don't think so, that's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinions, coolio, hell I'm glad you do, kinda jealous tbh. Why not say that at the start instead of just throwing shit at the wall though? Way better ways of putting your opinion forward than "Your opinion doesn't fucking matter stfu", which is very much how your comment comes across even if it's not worded specifically like that.
: That was some major projection. Are you okay?
Perfectly fine, but I must ask, why are you here if not to discuss?
: Hard to swallow pill: Riot does not give a single fuck about your opinion on Kai'sa.
Yeah and? I don't give a shit. I just had opinions I wanted to express in a more public manner than just in chats with friends. That's it. It's hardly a difficult pill to swallow I swallowed it 2 years ago lol More to the point, why do you care enough to tell me that my opinions aren't worth shit? Did you *really* think I give a shit that Riot doesn't care? Sounds like you've got some shit you need to work on.
: I don't feel that a character's race is what's important, especially given that there's no consistent skin color anywhere in this game But hey, "to each their own"
Realistically it's important in a setting like Runeterra where travel is limited depending on where you live. You expect places like Bilgewater, Noxus or Demacia to have champions of all kinds of races because of what they are: a harbour city that attracts criminals from across the world, an empire spanning 3 continents and a kingdom founded by refugees from across the world. But Shurima's not like those places. People who live anywhere that's not near enough to the coast are unlikely to leave Shurima for their entire lives, and given how inhospitable the Shuriman deserts can be, it's doubtful people would immigrate there, which then makes Kai'Sa race important because it raises a lot of questions about her heritage. And considering what her heritage actually is, it becomes even more of a headscratcher. tl;dr it's weird because of how Runeterra works. In a general sense, what people's race are is irrelevant. In fantasy it can be because depending on culture, technology, travel methods and other factors, people are naturally gonna be divided up more in some cases.
: I legit can't understand why people don't understand her. Her backstory is plain as day. If anyone actually has trouble understanding her and wants to be educated on why she is so amazing add me in game. I will do Kai'sa a solid and explain to you why is the way she is and what parts you are having a problem understanding. This offer goes out to any LoL peeps who want to be Kai'sa fans.
It's not that I don't understand her. It's that what she is, is something I have issues with because of how the narrative of the game is set up. I've read her bio enough times to understand what she's about and I'm not a fan in many areas.
: She’s wearing a suit of armor. Why would she have scars? I think a lot of people expected Kai’Sa to be a female Guts, but a lot of her visuals and lore reads as a fantasy Samus Aran.
Mostly because: 1. She's frequently depicted sans helmet, indicating she spends frequent time without it, and as such might've been caught out a few times. 2. She didn't always have the full suit; the implication is it grew over time, so one would expect her to have scars from the time between when she got the initial Voidborn stuck to her, and when it became a full blown suit.
: "Kai’Sa’s definitely a white lass" She looks kinda Japanese or Chinese to me =/
I mean, that's not necessarily better lol, but hey to each their own
Jaspers (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Sharjo,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=xni4aQpG,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2020-01-24T23:25:43.363+0000) > > Immune to many of the Void's effects? Where does this come from? As far as fighting Voidborn goes she seems to be just as vulnerable to their attacks, and we haven't seen what her reaction is to being actually near potential rifts, so I'm confused as to where this information comes from and also what she's specifically immune to. A Voidborn exo-suit doesn't make you immune from a being like Kha'Zix ripping your spine out.
Yeah I'm aware, but Terozu is implying some other effects beyond that. That's what I'm asking about; wtf kind of effects are we talking about here?
: She lives in a cave... She likely doesn't do anything on a daily basis except defend herself from the occasional void creature.
So she just sits on her arse doing nothing? She's actively fighting the Void threat, which means moving around, hunting, planning, preparing. These tunnels are deep and vast, they likely require lots of climbing, and she'll need tons of stamina and speed to be able to evade Voidborn that get too close or she needs to get away from for the moment. She calls herself a hunter, so she's not just hiding.
Terozu (NA)
: Riot has stated Kai'Sa's suit makes her immune to the corrupting effects of the void's portals. This is why she's able to pass through them like Kassadin without armor. This was confirmed many times when she was released. Raw power means nothing if your finesse can't keep up. This is why Zoe is considered more powerful than Aurelion despite not having the sheer destructive power. The voidborn can adapt to, and canonically feed on magic, giving them an inherent advantage over the Ascended. In addition, the voidborn that survived are where void born like Kha'Zix, the especially powerful ones came from. They were also more numerable in the past when fighting the Ascended. And when i said that about her being the most capable it is due to their adaptivity. If a single voidling survives Sol's blast and is allowed to recover, that blast is no longer powerful enough to even wound it. Yes raw power can kill voidlings in a single strike, but if it doesn't, there's nothing more you can really _do_. And please, look at the Women's gymnastics teams. https://imgur.com/6L2kCiI.png[] As you can see, thick legs, thin arms, and if she were to arch her back a bit more, same curviness from the same angle. Though, Kai'Sa does have larger breasts. This is where Kai'Sa's build comes from. You can't even tell this girl has abs with the suit on.
I'd want a source on that Kai'Sa's suit making her immune thing if possible please, cuz I'd wanna see that with my own eyes to confirm. Also in general I feel like your argument about the Voidborn's adaptivity is reaching a bit? There's been no indication that they just become straight up immune to stuff that they survived. If that was the case Rengar's entire character arc revolving around Kha'Zix would be moot, which I'm not really willing to buy. It also is to an extent contradicted by Kassadin, in that the Nether Blade he wields is something the Voidborn, even 3,500 years later, know to fear. The Nether Blade isn't Void itself, it's some form of really nasty magic, but going off of your statement that if a voidling survive's A Sol's blast then another blast wouldn't be strong enough to wound it, why would they *ever* fear the Nether Blade? They should've known how to handle it from dealing with Horok way back when. They clearly haven't forgotten him. And I'm not looking at gymnastics, I'm looking at marathon runners, sprinters, weight lifters, the kind of athletes with qualities Kai'Sa would generally be following after as she'd be doing activities similar to them, from the raw stamina and sprinting capacity to being able to hold open a Voidborn's jaws for a decent amount of time despite the force, as she did in her comic.
: I don't think criticizing her looks has any validity to it, and I see this on the boards echo chamber quite often anytime someone is bringing kai'sa up. Disagree with her being too sexy (there's nothing to prove/disprove here). Your argument about "athlete's body" is a pretty wacky one -- without sounding like I'm telling fishermen's tales, as someone who had an active past, I've met a lot of very attractive, but also very athletic females. By attractive, to me, I'm not talking about any sort of muscle definition that you'd typically see on a male (volleyball, swimming, dance, martial arts, etc). To each their own, but I can attest that I've seen girls with "model" looks perform at high athletic levels. Not sure what you mean by "whitewashed" either, have you seen people from Isreal, Syria, Egypt, Iraq. I've met dozens at this point who are whiter than myself (Eastern European). League has seen a drought of "super sexy women" as of late, but I think that niche is already quite filled, we probably don't need them that often anymore, but I'm all for it as a heterosexual male whenever they do release a new one. I do think her symbiote should have been played up more however. Make it have certain parts that move -- not the cliched tentacles, but something to let us know it's not just some body suit, which it certainly looks like. Also agree her looks could have been more "wild" -- more nidalee and less ahri. I agree with the rest of your points... the lore team is quite hit or miss with me. World building in league is extremely weak, with a few random disconnected stories here and there which spotlight a couple of main characters and some side characters as well, then it's forgotten.
There's two main points I wanna bring up, firstly the whitewashed bit, and that's mostly because, as I stated, it's from other physical features she has, not just her skin tone. People can be pale skinned for a variety of reasons so that's not the issues, but looking at her face, the shape of her cheeks, the shape of her nose, these things don't allign with Taliyah, who is also native to this part of the world. Like not everyone's gonna look the same of course, but the features she has are so unlike Taliyah, and yet so like the majority of League's lasses that she reads as Runeterra's version of caucassian, rather than Runeterra's version of arabic, like Taliyah is seemingly. Again, skin tone is whatever, it's other features she has that contribute to the whitewashed argument imo. Second, yeah there was a large gap between Kai'Sa and the last sexy lass, but the thing is... The vast majority of League's lasses are conventionally attractive like Kai'Sa. Between Lissandra and Kai'Sa there were eight lasses released: {{champion:164}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:142}} But before that there was somewhere around forty lasses in the game, and among them the only ones that weren't conventionally attractive were {{champion:34}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:18}} One of which was a bird, one was a child and three were yordles. Just about every other lass had very similar body types and facial structures which are all what could be considered as "conventionally attractive". So yeah while we did have a large lull between releases, I'd argue it could've been far larger, as while there hadn't been a *new* sexy lass in a while, there was, and still is, such a huge cast of sexy lasses already that the point is sort of moot imo.
: >Realistically I’d have expected a character like this to be far more athletic and muscled. How would she work out to achieve an athletic and muscular body? Normal humans do not become athletic and muscular even through dire circumstances like that, especially not women. The suit is what does all the work keeping her alive.
The amount of physical activity she'd be doing on a day to day basis would certainly help, and she's been at this for years. I dunno what the suit does for sustenance in terms of the specifics, but it keeps her fed and hydrated seemingly from the bodies of Voidborn she kills, considering how little access to food and water she must have down there.
Terozu (NA)
: Funny you should mention olympic athletes. If you do a side by side, Kai'Sa has the body of one. Well toned, smaller chest, etc. You can't see her abs, but you can tell she has a flat stomach, and the crease in the middle defines them. She does not have an hour glass figure. Her splash depicts her as broad shouldered, and an average width waist. If you're referring to the curve, that's called a bent back from a side angle. https://images.hdqwalls.com/download/kai-sa-default-skin-splash-art-yh-1920x1080.jpg Looking at her splash, she has thin limbs and a bared collar bone, implying malnutrition. She has a flat, somewhat muscular stomach. She has thick muscular thighs, implying a lot of running. Her body type is clearly athletic. If you look up images of Olympic Ballerinas, they all have similar body types, many are much curvier than Kai'Sa. I will admit she should appear more unkempt in the face, though her hair is long and tangled. So she is realistically athletic. She just also has flawless skin. As for canon? Kai'Sa grew up in a nice closed in cavern, with many nooks and crannies to hide in. She constantly talks about having to constantly fight. And there's a huge difference between her situation and others. Lissandra? She was dealing with the Watchers themselves. Not their spawn, the actual Watchers. A much larger threat. And for the Shurimans? Much larger rifts, in wide open spaces they couldn't contain. They also, don't have Kai'Sa's biggest advantage, her skin. Which not only makes her immune to many of the void's effects, it also gives her powerful weapons, that, if they can't hurt the void creature she's fighting, can adapt to do so _mid fight_. Which no other force on Runeterra as we know it can claim. The reason she thrives while fighting them is because she's using it to fight it. The same reason she thrives is why Shurimans struggle, they can't biologically adapt to an enemy mid fight. Once the Void adapts to counter an attack, it stops working. So every attack, [only works once](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItOnlyWorksOnce). The only other characters who could possibly fight the void as well as kai'Sa that we know of are Zilean and Ekko. Who can revert to before the enemy adapted, and _hit it harder_. Maybe this time? It'll work.
When I look at olympian women through google I more often see their torsos as effective slabs of muscle rather than being curvy in most respects. There are exceptions, but unless I'm just looking in the wrong place images like this are what I'm seeing: https://timeolympics.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/london-olympics-athletics-w.jpg?w=600 The flawless skin of course is still an issue, but we weren't in opposition on that one so moving on, I wanna talk about this for a second: > They also, don't have Kai'Sa's biggest advantage, her skin. Which not only makes her immune to many of the void's effects, Immune to many of the Void's effects? Where does this come from? As far as fighting Voidborn goes she seems to be just as vulnerable to their attacks, and we haven't seen what her reaction is to being actually near potential rifts, so I'm confused as to where this information comes from and also what she's specifically immune to. But then there's also the issue of adaptation. I can agree that her adapting suit does give her advantages, but comparatively to the god-like power of the Ascended? Even just looking at Nasus in the modern day, who's heavily handicapped by age and depression, he effortlessly clove through several warriors in a single strike and crushed a man's skull with his jaws, as well as just casually growing in size tremendously and being able to accelerate the aging of an individual so they wither and die. These powers, while of course in the context they were used against humans (Specifically in the stories Ouroboros and Bloodline), this is also an old, battered Nasus able to dispatch mortal warriors effortlessly. In his prime, back when he was fighting the Void at Icathia, he would've have been substantially stronger than this, as were his contemporaries like Aatrox and Renekton. The Ascended of course weren't all equal in power, that much is evident, but even so It wouldn't be a stretch to say that they were stronger back then than Kai'Sa is now, and though they lacked a rapidly adapting Void suit, they were imbued with celestial-might and elemental magic capable of decimating mortal armies, and they still struggled against the Voidborn threat. This is the main thing that gives me pause with Kai'Sa; looking at her in lore, particularly when considering the above about the Ascended, it doesn't feel right that she can succeed to such a degree where the Ascended struggled and ultimately came out of it traumatized. Nothing indicates that the Voidborn of today's Icathia, though likely fewer in number, are any less powerful than they would have been back during the war. So what gives here? And also (though this part isn't really important), I strongly disagree with her being the most capable character to fight the Void. Aurelion Sol sealed a Void rift and killed scores of Voidborn with a single breath, and entities like Bard and Zoe exist on the same level of scope as he does. That's not an indictment of your argument that's just me being particular about things because, enslaved as he may be, Aurelion Sol's still insanely powerful and I will not let him be forgotten.
zounet (EUW)
: Good post But did you read the new non official Kai SA story on the wiki? It was a leak, and you might enjoy it, showing Kai SA more as a " half human, half monster"
I believe I was one of the first to see it tbh hehe, but I didn't mention it here. Since it was taken down, I assume Riot didn't want us knowing about it or talking about it yet, and it might go through some revisions before we see it next. ...but yes I did enjoy it!
Comentários de Rioters
: Remember Trundle?
Not true; he did get a cameo in Ryze: Call of Power, and while not incredibly substantial, it's more than some other champions have. Like Talon. Or Teemo. Or Cho'Gath. He definetly needs some lore love asap though he's super important for the Freljord and as a representative of his entire species.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 13: Silence for the Damned vs Child of Zaun
Silence of the Damned for sure. An astounding piece that captures a visceral, eldritch horror we don't often seen in such a grounded, grossly realistic and horrific way. It adds a primal, savage element to the Freljord that I feel isn't as extensibly captured in other areas of the Freljord or the rest of Runeterra. It also does a lot to characterize Udyr and give him a lot of nuance, tragedy and complexity, as well as showing Sejuani being a bad arse. Child of Zaun is fantastic as well in many ways, but I feel like there's two points of negativity to Child of Zaun, mainly in its handling of Caitlyn, which I feel is a bit off, and the actual fight with Urgot, which is sorely lacking in detail for what you'd expect; even though the fight isn't the main component of the story I feel that the way it was executed does leave a lot to be desired. Silence for the Damned doesn't have the same issues, and in my opinion is one of the greatest pieces of story content that exists for League of Legends period.
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 12: Homecoming vs Roots of a Poisoned Tree
As heartfelt as Homecoming is, I'm giving it to Roots of a Poisoned Tree. Malphite is a delight, and the horrific implications of Voidborn using the caverns left behind by the God-Willow's roots to traverse Runeterra is...terrifying, to say the least. Also that slang. I know that slang. I live among people who used that slang, and are AS HARD TO UNDERSTAND. I relate so hard to that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sharjo,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cA3cNsZv,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-07T17:31:19.557+0000) > > The Echoes Left Behind for me. > > While The Whispering Doodad is a fun, low stakes romp that's enjoyable and charming to read, the sheer crushing despair of Ledros's attempts at doing anything right are so compelling. The poor fellow does everything in his power to help, and forces beyond his control just shit him down at every turn, to the point where he might as well give up. > > But while he DOES give up on his original goal, he doesn't stop, and keeps going. The story speaks to determination, loss, depression, all things that, wrapped up in the package of Ledros, are well conveyed and expertly handled. > > Also the story baited me so hard in to thinking Ledros would be a champion. I STILL WANT THAT but even as an npc Ledros fills out the Shadow Isles nicely and I hope to see more of him soon. I think at the moment he's a Legends of Runterra Card, so you can technicly play him.
: I can't believe you all are turning against Tamara {{sticker:sg-janna}}
: 2019 Lore Tournament - Day 7: The Echoes left Behind vs The Whispering Doodad
The Echoes Left Behind for me. While The Whispering Doodad is a fun, low stakes romp that's enjoyable and charming to read, the sheer crushing despair of Ledros's attempts at doing anything right are so compelling. The poor fellow does everything in his power to help, and forces beyond his control just shit him down at every turn, to the point where he might as well give up. But while he DOES give up on his original goal, he doesn't stop, and keeps going. The story speaks to determination, loss, depression, all things that, wrapped up in the package of Ledros, are well conveyed and expertly handled. Also the story baited me so hard in to thinking Ledros would be a champion. I STILL WANT THAT but even as an npc Ledros fills out the Shadow Isles nicely and I hope to see more of him soon.
Riot Pls (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=YvXcA11B,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-08T14:22:26.831+0000) > > This was really weird to read... how can all this stuff be considered canon? > So Heimerdinger **is** secretly building a gigantic T-Hex somewhere in Piltover? For real? That quote is a bit misleading out of context. As MELELL elaborated in her full answer, everything in Legends of Runeterra, from the art fo the flavor text, is _canonically grounded _- these are how these characters WOULD react and MIGHT speak if they canonically encountered each other, if these events transpired, etc. Not to speak for Mel or LoR, but the example MELELL gave in her answer I think is a great one: Lux has not witnessed a Progress Day in any established stories. But in the card game, her card interacts well with the spell, "Progress Day!" So she has a line of dialog that triggers when she witnesses the Progress Day. Similarly, Garen and Katarina in LoR have a few lines that puts the wind in the sails of certain ships (ahem), but they have yet to meet in a story moment. The complexity and nuance here revolves around what we mean by canon. Mel's quote (out of context) speaks to how everything in LoR is grounded in established Runeterran events, and that LoR will have the opportunity to be our first looks at parts of the world we haven't seen - but it doesn't mean every single unit, character, or event is a point on the timeline of Runeterra, verbatim. (Heimerdinger hasn't built a T-Hex... yet. :P) Hope that helps! (And all that said, all hail our new Cataclysm overlords.)
So to clarify, everything in LoR has the _potential_ to be canon, it's just a case of when and how, right? Some of which is already proper canon, like Ledros, Tianna, Cithria, Progress Day, the Ruination, the champions etc.
Comentários de Rioters
: Hey, thanks! Always fun to get more into that high noon lore. And man, one day High Noon Karthus. ONE DAY KARTHUS. PLEASE. RITO PLEASE
Throw in High Noon Ornn while you're at it. You can't just tease a fallen deity gunsmith and it not be Ornn and for it not to be a skin!
UomoAfide (EUW)
: Yeah, but the ending means that the comic wasn't able to link its own story with the "current" state of things in Demacia. We still have a gap in the story that still need to be filled. Hence why Jhonny questions about the confusion brought up by "For Demacia".
Well we have a Demacia Novella that was discussed at the start of the year. Chances are, that'll be the bridge that we're currently missing.
Fyrijou (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Sharjo,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EvEkZiEM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-03T02:56:19.737+0000) > > See in that example the mountain Braum punched through couldn't fight back. Malphite on the other hand... > > Well... > > http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Malphite_0.jpg > > How does Braum plan to not get completely annihilated by something that big, with that much mass that moves that fast? > > I suppose he could offer him a snack and a good conversation. Not much help when you're trying to fight a mountain but hey, "Today we fight each other, tomorrow we may fight together" and all that jazz. You forget something, Braum is in the possesion of one of {{champion:516}} ‚s Weapons, an unbreakable shield that is too heavy for any normal Man to be wielded. And Braum is carrying that thing with 1 Arm, can still be as fast and agile as ever and can even throw that thing with complete ease. Sure, if Malphite would storm into Braum without a shield, Malphite could blast Braum away since he weights 100’000’000’000 x Braum‘s weight. But if you count in Braum wielding the Shield which was forged by one of the strongest Gods in Runeterra, then you can expect that Braum can indeed stop Malphite charging into him. Don‘t forget, Braum is a legendary myth in Freljord where people talk how Braum has limitless Strength and those myths need to come from somewhere.
You forgot something as well. I wrote this post before Ornn existed. And Braum is real. Yuumi's bio attests to that. She and Book meet him in person. So like, why not factor that in and try not necro a FOUR YEAR OLD POST?
Comentários de Rioters
Lleh 999 (EUW)
: Is Orlon referenced during the Canticle of the Winged Sisters? In wich part? I dont remember seen it. D:
As it turns out I'm dead wrong and mistook Orlon's mention in the Canticle as actually happening in What Once Sailed Free. So that was my mistake he's not in the Canticle. However What Once Sailed Free references Orlon at the same time as Demacia's founding, which isn't as clear cut, but still gives a solid indication of Orlon being around during Demacia's founding, and thus the point about Poppy's age still stands.
: Well, as far as i remember, the lore does mention that the Darkins (before being trapped and killed) changed their bodies with blood magic or something like that... So, it is possible that Aatrox didnt had wing in his original form, but he created those with blood magic after he became a darkin. But i think that he was some kind of bat or an animal with wings anyways.
He was described as having wings as an Ascended in his bio, so that's consistent between forms, though whether they were bat-esque or bird-esque remains to be seen.
Chillee (NA)
: Aatrox Questions and Possible Future
We dunno much about what the darkin were like before their inprisonment. My assumption, given Aatrox's wings being of a bat/pterosaur like nature, and his choice to go with metallic horns, was that he had a draconic form. Shurima would've encompassed Ixtal back then, and Ixtal has elemental drakes so the potential is there, though that's purely my take on it. Is a skin possible? I'd say so for Aatrox, though that depends on Riot doing so, as the last time they've done skinsthat directly tied to the lore was 2015 with Bilgewater and the GP update. Transcended Kayle is a potential "What if" skin now but I feel like that's not an omen of things to come in terms of skin production.
: Which are the champions that are now currently at the S tier of needing a full VGU ?
The current list of champions in the highest priority for a VGU, as far as Riot posts go anyway, are: {{champion:42}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:77}} This is based on this post by Reav3 at the time of the champion roadmap video from earlier this year: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/yQNMhiKd-new-roadmapso-again-after-one-yearreav3-can-you-give-us-another-new-update-on-the-tier-1-vgu-list?comment=0004 It's likely this list has changed a bit since, as Reav3's original post had Pantheon, Volibear and Fiddle in it, all of who are scheduled for updates in the foreseeable future. This'll be something they talk about a lot, so I imagine a few new champs have also joined that list.
UnityOE (NA)
: Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Same with Fizz. Although we really can't go much deeper without fully submerging ourselves with speculation and headcanon. Yordles have such interesting lore.
Indeed, which is why it's a shame we have so little lore for them. Hopefully we'll get more meaty stuff on them and Bandle City soon, cuz the stuff that came with Yuumi wasn't exactly what we were looking for.
: We recently discussed that and it boils down to "is his art canon or not?". Because he's still depicted with 4 fingers, making him a yordle.
Or he could've been born a human with four digits on each hand. Stranger things have happened. In real life as well as in Runeterra. https://i.redd.it/ldfuczk7ha801.jpg
: Why would he specifically kill the aspect of war and not the host itself, while war is all he did and now wants? It's kinda weird. Or maybe he left him in case he survived so he could take over him one day?
Aatrox probably just left Atreus cuz he figured a normal mortal man would just die. Atreus becoming Pantheon was unprecedented; no one in universe would've seen it coming, least of all Pantheon's killer. Remember Aatrox doesn't specifically care about people; they're lambs to the slaughter either way. He cares about getting his peace and his revenge. Killing Pantheon was important to him. Atreus is another worthless mortal to him. Until Atreus defied all expectations and proved the metal of humanity.
: So, we kind of have a problem with the aspect being *dead* dead. If it were totally dead, the concept of war would die with it. (Yes, they're mortal. But it takes cosmic warfare to kill a concept...) But war itself did not die, so my current thinking is that the aspect itself was effectively knocked out by taking Aatrox's blow for its host (Atreus of course) and keeping Atreus alive. Pantheon, once a hostile aspect that preferred near-total control over its hosts, is now being reshaped by Atreus, perhaps into a more symbiotic concept. Sharjo's theory is a similar possibility, though.
It depends on whether a concept dying just wholly erases it or whether it leaves a "corpse" behind so to speak. Really the logistics of dead ideas is hard to wrap one's head around. Targon's a weird region.
UnityOE (NA)
: That would make sense with the Orlon timeline. However, Yordles I thought only lived a few hundred years. Not thousands. EDIT: And that would make Poppy over 1200 years old?
Yordles are described as "timeless" so age doesn't really factor in to discussions there. Kled for instance has always looked like he has, even when he was first seen by the original Noxian legionaires. I'm talking full shabang of scar, gnarled outfit and trusty Skaarl. We don't have a clear idea on whether yordles actually age at all, as time flows differently in Bandle City. Something to keep in mind though is, based on the above, Veigar has been in the physical realm of Runeterra far longer than Poppy or Kled, as he was around when Mordekaiser was active, so pre-Noxus and Demacia. There's potential that Fizz has also been around longer too. So yeah, Poppy's probably over 1,200 years old. Kled and Veigar are potentially older. Fizz might be older still. Potentially the oldest yordle we know of is Amumu, though we still dunno if he's legitimately a yordle or not.
: Is the Aspect of War Dead?
The Aspects are concepts incarnate, but immortality isn't exactly as clear cut in Runeterra as you might expect. When Aurelion Sol obliterated Pantheon of a bygone era, the assumption is that he annihilated the body Pantheon was using, but didn't touch the Aspect itself. Aatrox's sword isn't like that, it's described as a god-killing weapon and considering he was once an Ascended, his powers at their core stem from a similar origin to Pantheon. The ultimate fate of Pantheon isn't really known, and we'll probably need to wait on that potential Pantheon vs Aatrox story to find out more, but for all intents and purposes, based on what the bio tells us, Aatrox killed the very concept of war, which Atreus then reignited by taking up the mantle of War through sheer force of will.
UnityOE (NA)
: But I thought Poppy was there when it was founded. I thought it said that she found out Orlon was going to a small settlement which would come to be called Demacia. Unless it received it's name like 800 years after it's founding, because I think Poppy is around 200-300 years old rough estimate. Unless I misread which could be possible. I'm referencing her lore.
There's no specific dates stated with Poppy, but that same Orlon is referenced during the Canticle of the Winged Sisters, putting him firmly at Demacia's founding which was right after the Rune Wars. This puts Poppy at minimum maybe two decades older than Demacia.
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Sharjo

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