: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=00000007000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-13T13:20:27.767+0000) > > my changes are supposed to make tanks do TANK things instead of killing people > > i don't like playing ornn because i can repeatedly solo kill my opponent and then smash my face into the adc and see them kill themselves > > i play ornn so that i can hit multi E's and R's and keep applying the brittle over and over and over again > i don't play mao so i can assassinate the backline > i play mao because i want to keep a target perma cc'd > i don't play malphite so i can 1 shot the carries > i play malphite so i can ult in a fight and give my team the opportunity to do the damage and clean up > > currently tanks function as fighters and just like fighters tanks evaporate on focus fire > i want tanks to be in the front line and not staying 2 steps infront of the adc to eat the average skill shot that 1 shots them > > currently very few tanks can withstand 5 seconds of damage even ornn with 400+ resists just falls over after 2-3 items > i would gladly lose my ability to 1 shot the carry just so i can stay in the fight for 10+ seconds I dont wanna shade, but you have to be low low low elo... None of them can blow up an adc alone unless they're just stupid fed. Such a situation highly favors adc Even then, the scenario should never even happen because tanks and adc are never alone. They need follow up and peel.
> [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=000000070000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-14T02:11:20.002+0000) > > I dont wanna shade, but you have to be low low low elo... None of them can blow up an adc alone unless they're just stupid fed. Such a situation highly favors adc > > Even then, the scenario should never even happen because tanks and adc are never alone. They need follow up and peel. diamond low elo when was the last time you played vs a tank? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVhDS68tEhY&t=4m10s equal levels with an adc which means he was even behind now you can say that leona was there and that contributed to the 1 shot but in reality ashe would have lived until his next Q and she would have 0 chance of dealing with him they do need follow up when the moment they become paper comes ie 2-3 items completed before that tanks are more than capable of soloing squishies
Jarring (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-12-14T00:26:54.131+0000) > > we are talking here about tank items not bruiser or adc items > ornn won't go mercurial nor maw > > ornn doesn't like spirit because no in built healing > you don't go adaptive unless you are vs azir akali or cassio > > so you are left with 1 MR item and boots that are also for CC ie you aren't going mercs unless you are getting blasted by cc > so of all the MR items you are left with abyssal mask > > so > MR items are generally trash as they are counter specific and abused by some champions > while things like thornmail are good into healing and good in every game in which there is 1 auto attacker > sunfire is good on any tank with the ability to stick onto people or if they want help wave clearing > omen is good as an aoe slow and atk speed slow even if there is no crit user > righteous is great on tanks that want to run in faster (mostly hook based supports use it really well as well) > or even stoneplate (although a trash item if you don't have at least 1k bonus hp which is around 3rd item ie stoneplate is "marginally" good as a 4th item) > > again we are talking about tank items for TANKS Yes a lot of Ornn's damage is magical, so Abyssal Mask is the most viable MR item on him...not only that but Abyssal mask gives healing in its unique passive. Another thing...just because a champion does not have sustain in their kit, doesn't mean Spirit Visage is useless on them. Ornn has a relatively high growth coefficient for %base health regen(which scales off of 2 of the item's passive stats)...having some of the highest in the game, naturally, as does most every other tank/juggernaut that i know of. It's a common trait tanks normally share. Yeah base health regen isn't that big of a deal for most champions.. but for tanks, it is. You might not really notice it most of the time, but it definitely makes a difference, regardless of whether or not you take notice of it. The unique passive of Spectre's Cowl isn't some useless stat...It's incredibly effective in combination with the rest of its base stats.. and even more so when you add it to items such as Doran's shield, and Abyssal Mask. I'm also sure that you know that as a tank, Spirit Visage makes any healing support that much more effective at healing you as well. I mean, the way I see it, it just gets better and better the more I look at it...when all you did is take one look at its unique passive, and think, hey, my champion doesn't have any abilities that give me sustain, must mean it's a useless item! And don't stop there! Only getting the 2 biggest MR items for Ornn is a waste when you could top it off with Warmog's... Yes Armor is important too..not saying you shouldn't get armor...just saying Warmog's tops off the tank build even further.. causing the scaling to go through the roof. You get another 200%base hp regen, an absurd about of HP, and its absolutely broken ass passive that is...you guessed it! hard scaling with Spirit Visage. Even after getting all 3 of these amazing scaling MR tank items...you still have room for at least 2 tank armor items as well...
> [{quoted}](name=Jarring,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-12-14T03:39:09.176+0000) > > Yes a lot of Ornn's damage is magical, so Abyssal Mask is the most viable MR item on him...not only that but Abyssal mask gives healing in its unique passive. > > Another thing...just because a champion does not have sustain in their kit, doesn't mean Spirit Visage is useless on them. Ornn has a relatively high growth coefficient for %base health regen(which scales off of 2 of the item's passive stats)...having some of the highest in the game, naturally, as does most every other tank/juggernaut that i know of. It's a common trait tanks normally share. Yeah base health regen isn't that big of a deal for most champions.. but for tanks, it is. You might not really notice it most of the time, but it definitely makes a difference, regardless of whether or not you take notice of it. The unique passive of Spectre's Cowl isn't some useless stat...It's incredibly effective in combination with the rest of its base stats.. and even more so when you add it to items such as Doran's shield, and Abyssal Mask. I'm also sure that you know that as a tank, Spirit Visage makes any healing support that much more effective at healing you as well. I mean, the way I see it, it just gets better and better the more I look at it...when all you did is take one look at its unique passive, and think, hey, my champion doesn't have any abilities that give me sustain, must mean it's a useless item! > And don't stop there! Only getting the 2 biggest MR items for Ornn is a waste when you could top it off with Warmog's... Yes Armor is important too..not saying you shouldn't get armor...just saying Warmog's tops off the tank build even further.. causing the scaling to go through the roof. You get another 200%base hp regen, an absurd about of HP, and its absolutely broken ass passive that is...you guessed it! hard scaling with Spirit Visage. Even after getting all 3 of these amazing scaling MR tank items...you still have room for at least 2 tank armor items as well... im just gonna say that if your argument is that i should buy an item that is 80% gold efficient on me just because it's "there" you should refrain from trying to argue ever again with me about tanks yea bro go buy adaptive helm vs veigar im sure it's gonna be great for you if you want to int that is
Jarring (NA)
: Also another problem with building bramblevest is that since it's main use is to counter ADCs...building it early vs AD toplane wouldn't be as worthwhile as working towards building a full item with both HP and armor. Like I've said...there are tons of ADs that don't give a shit about bramblevest...i mean take Zed for instance, doesn't do shit vs him. Want more? How about the most basic AD champion in the game, Garen? Pantheon, Nasus, Poppy, Renekton, Rengar.. I mean, some of these have healing that would be reduced, but regardless, Bramblevest is definitely not going to be the item that stops them from winning lane. It's possible some champions would have a much more difficult time vs a combination of the grievous wounds + OTHER tank items.. but early bramblevest is not the end-all be-all item people build vs AD in top lane. That's fucking dumb as shit. Yes, it goes really well into shit like Trynd, Quinn, Vayne, Jax, Irelia, Kayle(if AD) etc. I mean Vayne's passive kind of innately counters bramblevest...but if you're going to get an armor item vs her, it's stilll probably going to be one of the best you can get. Anyways what do all these champions have in common? They primarily scale very hard off of attack speed. How many champions in top lane do you notice building attack speed? I mean.. beyond trinity force...It's uncommon for top lane AD champions to build any attack speed items. The only reason bramblevest works so well into Irelia and Jax is because they both have passives that give them massive amounts of attack speed on top of auto-resets. Their healing is just an after-thought in comparison(well Irelia's anyways). Outside of these 2 champions, bramble isn't really all that effective even though they might be building triforce. I swear to god. Like.. it's like people don't think. They just see the stat and think it always must just roughly translate into whatever they play against. hurr durr armor beats attack damage. hurr durr magic resist beats attack power.. i don't use poo poo items because they not ever work right people who are able to counter my items because of my poor itemization skills is unfair. hurr durr this item always works vs me because i always do so same thing so it must be broken i will never change because i am stone man.
> [{quoted}](name=Jarring,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=00000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-12-14T06:49:24.664+0000) > > Also another problem with building bramblevest is that since it's main use is to counter ADCs...building it early vs AD toplane wouldn't be as worthwhile as working towards building a full item with both HP and armor. Like I've said...there are tons of ADs that don't give a shit about bramblevest...i mean take Zed for instance, doesn't do shit vs him. Want more? How about the most basic AD champion in the game, Garen? Pantheon, Nasus, Poppy, Renekton, Rengar.. I mean, some of these have healing that would be reduced, but regardless, Bramblevest is definitely not going to be the item that stops them from winning lane. It's possible some champions would have a much more difficult time vs a combination of the grievous wounds + OTHER tank items.. but early bramblevest is not the end-all be-all item people build vs AD in top lane. That's fucking dumb as shit. > > Yes, it goes really well into shit like Trynd, Quinn, Vayne, Jax, Irelia, Kayle(if AD) etc. I mean Vayne's passive kind of innately counters bramblevest...but if you're going to get an armor item vs her, it's stilll probably going to be one of the best you can get. Anyways what do all these champions have in common? They primarily scale very hard off of attack speed. How many champions in top lane do you notice building attack speed? I mean.. beyond trinity force...It's uncommon for top lane AD champions to build any attack speed items. The only reason bramblevest works so well into Irelia and Jax is because they both have passives that give them massive amounts of attack speed on top of auto-resets. Their healing is just an after-thought in comparison(well Irelia's anyways). Outside of these 2 champions, bramble isn't really all that effective even though they might be building triforce. > > I swear to god. Like.. it's like people don't think. They just see the stat and think it always must just roughly translate into whatever they play against. hurr durr armor beats attack damage. hurr durr magic resist beats attack power.. > > i don't use poo poo items because they not ever work right > > people who are able to counter my items because of my poor itemization skills is unfair. > > hurr durr > > this item always works vs me because i always do so same thing so it must be broken > > i will never change because i am stone man. i thought you were gonna make sense at some point so i gave your post a chance but i was mistaken
Jarring (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-13T13:33:44.045+0000) > > MR items are generally trash For what? Mercurial Scimitar is amazing. Like, you want AD MR items right? What's wrong with Maw and Merc? Do you want the Zhonya's active instead of the cleanse on Merc Scimitar? Is that it? Hmm.. I wonder how awesome it would be for AP to have cleanse on an item. It would definitely be good on them, but it really just seems kind of pointless to think about. I was bummed when they reworked abyssal, so that AP can't build full damage that automatically comes with a little bit of early mr for dealing with teh opposing laner if they are AP...but that doesn't mean banshee's sucks. None of the other MR items suck either. Like, from where I'm sitting you're either exaggerating the effectiveness of zhonya's because of streams/youtube montages or you don't actually understand itemization. Itemization seems overly equal if nothing else across the board. Full AD gets GA Mercs, Maw, Phantom Dancer, and Edge of Night...not to mention so much more shit that can help vs burst like steraks and DD. Full AP just gets Zhonya's and Banshee's.. that's it. 2 items. Like, AP barely gets anything to counter both AD AND itself... yet itemization to counter AP damage is the problem. If anything, it's AP not having any resistance items in general. AP doesn't really need another armor item...Zhonya's is hard to beat...Eul's has been an essential item in DotA since forever(way before LoL), and though Zhonya's is just a single way to use the active of Eul's, it's still probably one of the best actives AP champs could ever have in LoL. Could be a LOT better though. Yeah I guess AP champs could use an MR item, but having MR would be like it's trying to counter itself. It's redundant. Yeah I loved having Abyssal Scepter, but at the same time, I understood it was a redundant item. When 2 AP champs meet each other in the mid lane, guess what happens, they both buy Abyssal Scepter first item every single game. Redundant.
> [{quoted}](name=Jarring,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-13T14:13:22.588+0000) > > For what? Mercurial Scimitar is amazing. Like, you want AD MR items right? What's wrong with Maw and Merc? Do you want the Zhonya's active instead of the cleanse on Merc Scimitar? Is that it? Hmm.. I wonder how awesome it would be for AP to have cleanse on an item. It would definitely be good on them, but it really just seems kind of pointless to think about. > > I was bummed when they reworked abyssal, so that AP can't build full damage that automatically comes with a little bit of early mr for dealing with teh opposing laner if they are AP...but that doesn't mean banshee's sucks. None of the other MR items suck either. > > Like, from where I'm sitting you're either exaggerating the effectiveness of zhonya's because of streams/youtube montages or you don't actually understand itemization. > > Itemization seems overly equal if nothing else across the board. Full AD gets GA Mercs, Maw, Phantom Dancer, and Edge of Night...not to mention so much more shit that can help vs burst like steraks and DD. > > Full AP just gets Zhonya's and Banshee's.. that's it. 2 items. Like, AP barely gets anything to counter both AD AND itself... yet itemization to counter AP damage is the problem. If anything, it's AP not having any resistance items in general. > > AP doesn't really need another armor item...Zhonya's is hard to beat...Eul's has been an essential item in DotA since forever(way before LoL), and though Zhonya's is just a single way to use the active of Eul's, it's still probably one of the best actives AP champs could ever have in LoL. Could be a LOT better though. Yeah I guess AP champs could use an MR item, but having MR would be like it's trying to counter itself. It's redundant. Yeah I loved having Abyssal Scepter, but at the same time, I understood it was a redundant item. When 2 AP champs meet each other in the mid lane, guess what happens, they both buy Abyssal Scepter first item every single game. Redundant. we are talking here about tank items not bruiser or adc items ornn won't go mercurial nor maw ornn doesn't like spirit because no in built healing you don't go adaptive unless you are vs azir akali or cassio so you are left with 1 MR item and boots that are also for CC ie you aren't going mercs unless you are getting blasted by cc so of all the MR items you are left with abyssal mask so MR items are generally trash as they are counter specific and abused by some champions while things like thornmail are good into healing and good in every game in which there is 1 auto attacker sunfire is good on any tank with the ability to stick onto people or if they want help wave clearing omen is good as an aoe slow and atk speed slow even if there is no crit user righteous is great on tanks that want to run in faster (mostly hook based supports use it really well as well) or even stoneplate (although a trash item if you don't have at least 1k bonus hp which is around 3rd item ie stoneplate is "marginally" good as a 4th item) again we are talking about tank items for TANKS
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-13T13:33:44.045+0000) > > MR items are generally trash To be fair, so are Armor Items.
> [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-12-13T14:34:51.926+0000) > > To be fair, so are Armor Items. yes but at least the armor items are good at certain points in the game bami. bramble, tabi are very effective at mitigating physical damage early on while nobody really gives a shit if you got mercs or spectra hell people don't give a shit even if you get hexdrinker
: Should League of Legends make a Game mode to play all the champions before their rework?
that would be extremely expensive and nobody would play stuff like old ww for more than 2 games out of pure nostalgia
Jarring (NA)
: Maw, Merc scimitar, and Wit's End not good enough for you? Spirit Visage is honestly the best tank item in the game imho. 30% increase to all incoming healing is ridiculously good. I mean, I guess I can understand how you wouldn't want to build merc scimitar because it's kind of difficult to use, but honestly, it's not any less valuable than zhonya's... in fact it's better. Zhonya's you're twiddling your thumbs for 2.5 seconds and god knows what could happen in that time frame. Merc scimitar you just press it and BAM you're no longer disabled, and oops! I killed you! your spell didn't work haha noob. tbh I don't think it's any more difficult to use either. If you're whining about zhonya's and not using mercurial scimitar, you got some explaining to do.
> [{quoted}](name=Jarring,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZWBAVJ0Q,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-13T13:16:56.215+0000) > > Maw, Merc scimitar, and Wit's End not good enough for you? > > Spirit Visage is honestly the best tank item in the game imho. 30% increase to all incoming healing is ridiculously good. > > I mean, I guess I can understand how you wouldn't want to build merc scimitar because it's kind of difficult to use, but honestly, it's not any less valuable than zhonya's... in fact it's better. Zhonya's you're twiddling your thumbs for 2.5 seconds and god knows what could happen in that time frame. Merc scimitar you just press it and BAM you're no longer disabled, and oops! I killed you! your spell didn't work haha noob. tbh I don't think it's any more difficult to use either. If you're whining about zhonya's and not using mercurial scimitar, you got some explaining to do. MR items are generally trash
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=000000070000,timestamp=2019-12-13T00:16:07.572+0000) > > first i would like halve their damage output > every % dmg tank ability is getting halved > > next i would cut healing runes because at that damage nerf tanks would just be free farm for anything with sustain > > so now that healing is reduced and tanks don't 1 shot your carries > i would rework most of the uninteractive ones and give them skill expression > ways to stay in a fight and be tanks without having 100 armor and mr for free in order to function (caugh ornn rework) > maos untargetability dash is such a skill expressive ability that the game needs more of on tanks > and add an early game magic resist item that functions in the same way bami tabi and bramble work against ad damage > so that tanks can deal with mages bullshit I feel your changes will make tanks even weaker because the bulk of their dmg is % and you halved their base damages... Also, the sustain off runes might hurt ranged/ bruisers matchups into each other but not tanks because they already beat tanks. The new MR item wont be valued over the current items as most mages don't have decent sustain (esp since you removed it from runes.) Assassins will be even more desired because their counters (tanks) are even weaker..
my changes are supposed to make tanks do TANK things instead of killing people i don't like playing ornn because i can repeatedly solo kill my opponent and then smash my face into the adc and see them kill themselves i play ornn so that i can hit multi E's and R's and keep applying the brittle over and over and over again i don't play mao so i can assassinate the backline i play mao because i want to keep a target perma cc'd i don't play malphite so i can 1 shot the carries i play malphite so i can ult in a fight and give my team the opportunity to do the damage and clean up currently tanks function as fighters and just like fighters tanks evaporate on focus fire i want tanks to be in the front line and not staying 2 steps infront of the adc to eat the average skill shot that 1 shots them currently very few tanks can withstand 5 seconds of damage even ornn with 400+ resists just falls over after 2-3 items i would gladly lose my ability to 1 shot the carry just so i can stay in the fight for 10+ seconds
8Belthazor8 (EUNE)
: They also have movement speed. Was that the question though? No.
> [{quoted}](name=8Belthazor8,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=woMjsbc0,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:22:12.181+0000) > > They also have movement speed. Was that the question though? No. you were implying that they don't have sustain and i replied that the fact that they don't have healing doesn't mean they don't have sustain because in fact their forms of mitigation are better than healing
: > Oops you said one. Sorry, these just came to my mind. Pick one. Well, true. Still, they all have either a shield or a hard defense ability, except Ornn(i dont remember if he got his shield back after they removed it from his W). Sett has none and his only ranged ability is his W. His passive sustain is really weak anyway, at lvl1 its 5 hp/sec at 0 health.
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=woMjsbc0,comment-id=000000010002,timestamp=2019-12-12T17:25:23.368+0000) > > Well, true. Still, they all have either a shield or a hard defense ability, except Ornn(i dont remember if he got his shield back after they removed it from his W). Sett has none and his only ranged ability is his W. His passive sustain is really weak anyway, at lvl1 its 5 hp/sec at 0 health. they moved his shield power to raw defenses his current toughness is higher than before but while he had his shield he felt way better to play ie i would take the 45% win rate ornn than the current 50% win rate ornn any day
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T15:57:40.170+0000) > > because the moment a tank is viable people cry a fucking river about it > > hashinshin for example has been bitching and moaning for over 6 months that tanks are trash > in the last 2-3 weeks he has been bitching and moaning about every tank he encounters poppu ornn mao etc > > tanks and tank meta is the best part of the game because they extend the game and action > it's not about who throws the first punch > it's about who navigates the fight and game properly > and that kind of gameplay doesn't adhere to the adhd demographic of the player base I mean, hes right, only because the champs that are supposed to counter tanks (juggernauts/bruisers) are shells of what they used to be vs tanks, and the items are way overpriced, comepared to most ap champs where its way too easy to kill tanks. The problem is armor is too good and theres not enough good armor pen/shred on kits or items that are cost efficiant, while on the flipside mr barely works and magic pen is abundant and aids. Its not bitching if he knows what hes talking about, while i do agree sometimes he goes off the rails, he says some good points.
> [{quoted}](name=Exodus247,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:25:21.970+0000) > > I mean, hes right, only because the champs that are supposed to counter tanks (juggernauts/bruisers) are shells of what they used to be vs tanks, and the items are way overpriced, comepared to most ap champs where its way too easy to kill tanks. The problem is armor is too good and theres not enough good armor pen/shred on kits or items that are cost efficiant, while on the flipside mr barely works and magic pen is abundant and aids. Its not bitching if he knows what hes talking about, while i do agree sometimes he goes off the rails, he says some good points. bruisers were never the anti tank champions in lane when things like ferver and red pot cheese were a thing even then bruisers iddn't beat tanks as tanks in those days would start off the game with 100 armor tank items need to scale with base stats instead of giving flat stats then tanks need to have their damage reduced by a lot then tanks would need an MR itemization option or ap items need nerfs across the board (one or the other) then sustain needs to be nerfed so that champions can't outheal a tanks damage by kit alone (olaf with DD should outheal a thornmail olaf without DD should kill himself in thornmail for example) also give play by play options for tanks to mitigate or avoid damage instead of artificially blasting their defensive stats through the roof (caugh ornn current passive + item upgrade) things like maokais heal sions shield shens shield things that need to be actively used so you don't get the feeling that a tank is immortal but they can be immortal if they play correctly after all a tank should be capable of carrying by playing correctly just as much as a carry can we want to have agency just like everyone else and not be dead even 50% win rate even if you go 16/5 with ornn and still have to beg the inting adc to pull out his fist from his asshole so you can win the game
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T15:57:40.170+0000) > > because the moment a tank is viable people cry a fucking river about it > > hashinshin for example has been bitching and moaning for over 6 months that tanks are trash > in the last 2-3 weeks he has been bitching and moaning about every tank he encounters poppu ornn mao etc > > tanks and tank meta is the best part of the game because they extend the game and action > it's not about who throws the first punch > it's about who navigates the fight and game properly > and that kind of gameplay doesn't adhere to the adhd demographic of the player base As long as takes don't do too much damage I see no problem. I still remember the "tank meta" of Fizz Ekko and some other **assassins** building sunfire and iceborne and visage and just using base numbers to beat you down slowly
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=00000005,timestamp=2019-12-12T21:46:54.208+0000) > > As long as takes don't do too much damage I see no problem. I still remember the "tank meta" of Fizz Ekko and some other **assassins** building sunfire and iceborne and visage and just using base numbers to beat you down slowly thats a problem yes easily fixed by making tank items scale with base stats if an ekko has garbage base stats and a maokai has great base stats those tank items will be way more efficient on the maokai
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T15:57:40.170+0000) > > because the moment a tank is viable people cry a fucking river about it > > hashinshin for example has been bitching and moaning for over 6 months that tanks are trash > in the last 2-3 weeks he has been bitching and moaning about every tank he encounters poppu ornn mao etc > > tanks and tank meta is the best part of the game because they extend the game and action > it's not about who throws the first punch > it's about who navigates the fight and game properly > and that kind of gameplay doesn't adhere to the adhd demographic of the player base True and false... Tanks, as of now, scale hard but you have to suffer through early and rely on your allies to make it work. Before this. tanks were hard to kill early and even harder to kill late... They would rub cocks for 40 minutes until their carries scaled hard enough to pick up heal reduction and shred em. This, indirectly, forced supports into a censar meta because adc was that important. Knowing this, how would you buff tanks without repeating history? As it is, I feel the risks are fair.
> [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RVTrHNGX,comment-id=00000007,timestamp=2019-12-12T22:09:00.988+0000) > > True and false... Tanks, as of now, scale hard but you have to suffer through early and rely on your allies to make it work. > > Before this. tanks were hard to kill early and even harder to kill late... They would rub cocks for 40 minutes until their carries scaled hard enough to pick up heal reduction and shred em. This, indirectly, forced supports into a censar meta because adc was that important. > > Knowing this, how would you buff tanks without repeating history? As it is, I feel the risks are fair. first i would like halve their damage output every % dmg tank ability is getting halved next i would cut healing runes because at that damage nerf tanks would just be free farm for anything with sustain so now that healing is reduced and tanks don't 1 shot your carries i would rework most of the uninteractive ones and give them skill expression ways to stay in a fight and be tanks without having 100 armor and mr for free in order to function (caugh ornn rework) maos untargetability dash is such a skill expressive ability that the game needs more of on tanks and add an early game magic resist item that functions in the same way bami tabi and bramble work against ad damage so that tanks can deal with mages bullshit
: Releasing Sett upon the Rift be like
he is going to be really fun dunk champions have really high satisfaction and he is all about dunking and beating people up
8Belthazor8 (EUNE)
: > Show me a melee toplaner without self-healing. Also its 40 hp/sec at max(lvl 16 and literally 0 current hp) {{champion:24}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:98}}{{champion:78}} {{champion:80}}{{champion:516}} Oops you said one. Sorry, these just came to my mind. Pick one. > And when it turns wrong, just forget it, because unlike Riot, you are allowed to make mistakes Willing to bet? I will be available. Will you?
> [{quoted}](name=8Belthazor8,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=woMjsbc0,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-12-12T15:57:24.021+0000) > > {{champion:24}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:98}}{{champion:78}} {{champion:80}}{{champion:516}} > > Oops you said one. Sorry, these just came to my mind. Pick one. > > Willing to bet? I will be available. Will you? shields are a far better form of sustain than healing malphite has a shield riven has a shield sion has a shield shen has a shield poppy has a shield pantheon has an invulnerability ornn had a shield and that shield got converted to bonus resists (far stronger than the shield) (but people seem to have forgotten how op his shield spam felt right) jax has dodge which is only weaker against pantheons invulnerability (ie it's stronger than any self healing or self shielding) ie all the top laners you listed have far better defensive options than sett darius heal > better aatrox heal > better illaoi healing > better do i need to continue how other champions are far stronger than him? in his current state he will be weak i mean really weak His passive healing is weaker than mundos his Q is one of the weakest early game abilities in the game (nidalees trap probably does more for her than setts Q) and his W cast time really makes it feel like a waste to use his E is really good imo but doesn't really provide much dmg His R is really good if you can slam a tank into someone otherwise it does nothing from what i've seen of him on PBE compared to other champion releases he is utter garbage
: Riot has not released a new tank in 28 months
because the moment a tank is viable people cry a fucking river about it hashinshin for example has been bitching and moaning for over 6 months that tanks are trash in the last 2-3 weeks he has been bitching and moaning about every tank he encounters poppu ornn mao etc tanks and tank meta is the best part of the game because they extend the game and action it's not about who throws the first punch it's about who navigates the fight and game properly and that kind of gameplay doesn't adhere to the adhd demographic of the player base
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AHX43tAh,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T13:58:38.300+0000) > > what about it? > the talon and fiddle were turbo smurfs currently 17/17 wins > including your adc with a 75% win rate out of 50 games > > unless these 2 were with average win rates this is nothing to be "weirded" about I'm merely a simple low elo support main, why do I gotta play against these op plats!?
> [{quoted}](name=Skeleton Support,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AHX43tAh,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T14:04:53.652+0000) > > I'm merely a simple low elo support main, why do I gotta play against these op plats!? because you are too good for your simple low elo
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AHX43tAh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-10T12:43:33.609+0000) > > that your lane didn't participate in the game? Click the picture and see the ranks dingus.
> [{quoted}](name=Skeleton Support,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AHX43tAh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T12:44:06.131+0000) > > Click the picture and see the ranks dingus. what about it? the talon and fiddle were turbo smurfs currently 17/17 wins including your adc with a 75% win rate out of 50 games unless these 2 were with average win rates this is nothing to be "weirded" about
: These are the matches that make you think about life.
that your lane didn't participate in the game? or that you got carried by a silver player?
: false. there's more factors to one sided games than matchmaking. you can put players with the exact same mmr in a game and still get a stomp. say for example, there's a diamond one trick but his champion is banned. without his champion, he plays around plat level at best and he's absolutely destroyed in lane. there's only 3 lanes and you're guaranteed to lose that one. now to take this further. even if the other players were somehow equals, someone has to lose lane. the other two lanes are 50/50, so the team with the diamond one trick is likely to lose 2 lanes out of 3 and also likelier to lose all 3 lanes. matchups, early game cheese, and tilt also affect this.
> [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VAvrEyIp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-10T11:02:31.615+0000) > > false. there's more factors to one sided games than matchmaking. you can put players with the exact same mmr in a game and still get a stomp. say for example, there's a diamond one trick but his champion is banned. without his champion, he plays around plat level at best and he's absolutely destroyed in lane. there's only 3 lanes and you're guaranteed to lose that one. > > now to take this further. even if the other players were somehow equals, someone has to lose lane. the other two lanes are 50/50, so the team with the diamond one trick is likely to lose 2 lanes out of 3 and also likelier to lose all 3 lanes. matchups, early game cheese, and tilt also affect this. he is talking about Normal games normal games are absolute shit in terms of matchmaking because "there is a seperate mmr for normal games" which makes it possible for silver players to play into diamond+ games for example vast majority of my normal games are against plat2+ average enemy team while mine is ~gold if you don't account my rank so i just end up having to 1v9 a normal game instead of going in it with the mindset of fucking around this makes it so that if i want to win i have to play a strong champion in a strong role and then try my best to snowball out of control which should be the way i play in ranked instead of normals my normal games have been harder than my ranked games for 3-4 seasons now just because of that fact
Phridolin (EUW)
: How Garen should have looked like @Riot
you do realize that garen is swinging a 2hander right?
Cräfty (EUW)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Cräfty,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=rmvuRjEh,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T16:41:26.888+0000) > > You're really that dumb, hein?! You still don't understand that I was at 100 HP all game long, and I was last pick on the carousel everytime? > > I guess you're just that dumb... so sad to see, but not really! yes people fight over negatron cloaks riiight riiiiiiiiiiiight
: She actually does. For one, it takes at least 2.5 seconds just to auto attack twice as Senna. If using her Q, it has a 15 second base cooldown, and still requires you to hit them twice. Mist per champion also has an inherent 4 second cooldown. Veigar's cooldowns are smaller. Nasus's cooldowns grow smaller as the game goes on. Thresh also collects souls with his lantern at a significant radius. If you see a live game Senna hit 200 stacks, that has to be like a 50-60 minute game lmfao. Veigar commonly gets 400 stacks. Nasus reaches 900+ by 50 min with ease.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sjMPLvsI,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T16:47:07.620+0000) > > She actually does. For one, it takes at least 2.5 seconds just to auto attack twice as Senna. If using her Q, it has a 15 second base cooldown, and still requires you to hit them twice. > > Mist per champion also has an inherent 4 second cooldown. Veigar's cooldowns are smaller. Nasus's cooldowns grow smaller as the game goes on. > > Thresh also collects souls with his lantern at a significant radius. > > If you see a live game Senna hit 200 stacks, that has to be like a 50-60 minute game lmfao. > > Veigar commonly gets 400 stacks. > > Nasus reaches 900+ by 50 min with ease. 25-30min games
: Hi Im Ahri.
i would have definitely been disappointed by THAT ornn skin im not looking for a whymsical skin on a fucking fire goat god
: I was quite sure they limited it to an extra 150 range but I went to a practice game and spammed drakes to find her range can grow way more. but the difference between Senna and those two is Senna can't one shot you if you step outta line leaving you plenty of room to bop her on the noggin. Step to a 1k Viegar 25 mins in and you'll get deleted with the press of a button and Nasus with his build will pretty much just walk through your team and obliterate your ad carry while he sets his eyes on your turrets. But I thank you for the comments. I'm looking forward to seeing how the balance team regulates her passive because I will admit it's kinda easy to get to 140 stacks in a 25 game. But at the same time I think the other infinitely stacking passives should be looked into also.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Ligma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sjMPLvsI,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T16:03:40.492+0000) > > I was quite sure they limited it to an extra 150 range but I went to a practice game and spammed drakes to find her range can grow way more. but the difference between Senna and those two is Senna can't one shot you if you step outta line leaving you plenty of room to bop her on the noggin. Step to a 1k Viegar 25 mins in and you'll get deleted with the press of a button and Nasus with his build will pretty much just walk through your team and obliterate your ad carry while he sets his eyes on your turrets. But I thank you for the comments. I'm looking forward to seeing how the balance team regulates her passive because I will admit it's kinda easy to get to 140 stacks in a 25 game. But at the same time I think the other infinitely stacking passives should be looked into also. again they have to comit cooldowns which leaves them vulnerable or restricts their trading Kindred in a similar manner has to comit her time and the enemy is given details and options on stopping her from achieving her goal Senna has none of those restrictions all she has to do is comit an auto attack when ever a soul is available Threshes passive is also collected in melee range Bards passive is collected in melee range and is scattered all over the map that puts him in danger Zoes drops are away from her that gives the enemy options of engaging on her if she greeds improperly you can quickly see how sennas passive doesn't have any of those counter options as i've lately seen sennas comfortably hit 150-200 stacks so i don't agree with the assumption that she is in any way hindered at gathering stacks that for comparison is equal to veigar hitting 400 stacks on his passive or nasus hitting 1k stacks on his passive
5tunCard (NA)
: Okay it was fun
i doubt it was fun for any party involved
: Have you seen viegar? Senna's passive stacks just like Nasus' and Viegar's both of which become serious monsters but Senna is easy to fight if you're slick enough to avoid her W. Grab her and she's pretty much toast.{{champion:22}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:89}}
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Ligma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sjMPLvsI,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-29T15:49:13.612+0000) > > Have you seen viegar? veigar just like nasus have to comit a cooldown senna doesn't if her soul gathering range is reduced by 300 units adoesn't grow by her atk range then maybe she will be balanced
: Is Senna really broken?
her passive value is way too high for how easy it is to stack it it's similar to nasus Q value except she isn't put in danger when stacking it and doesn't have to wait a cd the rest of the kit is fine
Cräfty (EUW)
: Yeah, let me call amazon and order a couple of {{item:1057}}... It's not like I'm restricted by drop RNG and also, since I was 1st all game long, I didn't really get to choose what I get from carousel. Your comment is so cringy and dumb, urgh...
> [{quoted}](name=Cräfty,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=rmvuRjEh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T15:21:21.215+0000) > > Yeah, let me call amazon and order a couple of {{item:1057}}... > > It's not like I'm restricted by drop RNG and also, since I was 1st all game long, I didn't really get to choose what I get from carousel. > > Your comment is so cringy and dumb, urgh... it's not like you don't have the ability to scout your enemies and prioritize items in the carrousel either correct? oh wait
: Priorities (The forgotten champs of lovely mains)
Cräfty (EUW)
: Brand needs a complete rework on his ability. He's just an auto win at 2 stars with Morello + any...
lost 3rd place today with brand 2* with morello same as yesterday build mystics or dragons claw and stop bitchin or put items onto raka or naut and see how brand doesn't get to cast
Cräfty (EUW)
: Matchmaking needs to be reworked entirely for Season 10! This shit is so freaking r.
ah so you based your point on what they told you instead of looking up their opggs and seeing that they are actually on role? the only person "not on role" is your ad who doesn't play any lane you are also playing in gold i don't know what mechanical aptitude you expect from your team but you should stop doing that
Solence (NA)
: Ok boomer is not a slur... It never has been and this getting down voted is kinda pathetic and all i have to say to that is ok boomer.
> [{quoted}](name=Solence,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jeGEolOA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-11-29T14:54:57.976+0000) > > Ok boomer is not a slur... It never has been idc bro if okboomer is a slur you are calling people virgins kids 1head 0head you are twitch chat in game you are 1 kys away from a 14 day ban take the chat ban and try not being a piece of shit after it ends and use the chat as it's intended to be used
Solence (NA)
: Report me for what? i need to understand what i even did that was wrong in the first place.
> [{quoted}](name=Solence,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=jeGEolOA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T14:44:50.869+0000) > > Report me for what? i need to understand what i even did that was wrong in the first place. negative attitude verbal abuse
: Buff MR items or create new ones.
mr is weak because ap is strong if the effects on the AP items get nerfed (not the ap values their effects) then magic damage won't be such a problem nerf zhonya dcap void morello and sorc boots and you have great mr items in the game again
Solence (NA)
: okay.. but why did i get chat restricted though
wasn't the Ok Boomer thing decided recently to be a slur or something? hell if i know but i would mute your ass and report you as well you sound like a player that doesn't want to contribute to the game in any way with his chat feature
Cräfty (EUW)
: Matchmaking needs to be reworked entirely for Season 10! This shit is so freaking r.
: I main marksmen, and I'm competent in all lanes including Jungle. Even then, I'm horrible with tank champions. So you don't need to practice ADC, especially if you don't enjoy the role. The only reason you should practice ADC is in the event you're autofilled to the role. With that in mind, Miss Fortune is rather forgiving when it comes to CS and is pretty straightforward. Just remember that her passive can also punish your ability to CS if you don't manage your targets. She also has a solid early game with plenty of late game potential.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uJQEQU9j,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-29T12:17:16.860+0000) > > I main marksmen, and I'm competent in all lanes including Jungle. Even then, I'm horrible with tank champions. > > So you don't need to practice ADC, especially if you don't enjoy the role. The only reason you should practice ADC is in the event you're autofilled to the role. With that in mind, Miss Fortune is rather forgiving when it comes to CS and is pretty straightforward. Just remember that her passive can also punish your ability to CS if you don't manage your targets. She also has a solid early game with plenty of late game potential. you can always pick something like swain neeko yasuo ziggs or syndra bot and be fine with it even if you get auto filled and your mid and top would love you for it especially if they have a hard on for ad solo laners
floo (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V4NBY7UX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-29T09:00:57.475+0000) > > https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rClNZLXSKA8/maxresdefault.jpg > > please fuck off > > if you turn off your brain and die in a situation where you shouldn't even be then yuo are inting > telling me im abusing you for calling you out on your mindless actions is straight next level bullshit > > i lost a won game yesterday because my lee inted > we had a 4v2 and he decided to nexus turret dive the fed ahri that was 1 shotting him regularly throughout the game > > all his previous deaths were not ints > but at the end when the game was won > him going in and dying instead of protecting the turret pushing WAS AN INT > it wasn't a bad play > a Diamond player should NOT be playing in such a r%%%%%ed manner > and since that play lost us the game i did report him for inting > > im not saying he will be banned for it > but it was a concious INT on his part > and we all even the enemy called him a dirty fucking inter > so please gtfo with your abuse logic It's because of people like you who deteriorate the term from "_intentionally_ dying to help the enemy/put your team behind" to "anyone who dies in any manner that I don't approve of" why calling out for it is considered punishable.
> [{quoted}](name=floo,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V4NBY7UX,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-29T09:22:17.284+0000) > > It's because of people like you who deteriorate the term from "_intentionally_ dying to help the enemy/put your team behind" to "anyone who dies in any manner that I don't approve of" why calling out for it is considered punishable. lol
: Nope, you did it! You're on the hook I said. You told me to go do something else, the onus is on you to participate since you offered that I do something buddy. Now we are good friends and need to hang out, sound good? This can be the start of my new social life. Then we can get in a few games of ARAM, and then you can tell me all about how much you love playing as Kled, Braum, and Kindred every game like I have been. Cool? Great, see ya there.
> [{quoted}](name=CominTowardsYa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXeOxcbF,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T09:18:21.195+0000) > > Nope, you did it! You're on the hook I said. You told me to go do something else, the onus is on you to participate since you offered that I do something buddy. Now we are good friends and need to hang out, sound good? > This can be the start of my new social life. Then we can get in a few games of ARAM, and then you can tell me all about how much you love playing as Kled, Braum, and Kindred every game like I have been. > Cool? > > Great, see ya there. you sound psychotic
: I am doing something else, I am on the forums complaining. I can't write about it and play at the same time, can I? Also, did you have something in mind you want to do? I am up for suggestions, but you're on the hook, and have to do it with me. So what will it be?
> [{quoted}](name=CominTowardsYa,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXeOxcbF,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-29T09:05:32.335+0000) > > I am doing something else, I am on the forums complaining. I can't write about it and play at the same time, can I? > Also, did you have something in mind you want to do? I am up for suggestions, but you're on the hook, and have to do it with me. So what will it be? i don't want to do anything with you my dude but there are thousands of games there are thousands of places you can visit there are thousands of shows you can watch on top of the social life you can develop
: Woahhh there are toxic people in league? Never knew that Everyone is always so _nice_ to me They just love letting me know how trash I am and that I should never play again.
> [{quoted}](name=Cind3rkick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PUv6NTbT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-29T08:47:33.763+0000) > > Woahhh there are toxic people in league? > > Never knew that > > Everyone is always so _nice_ to me > They just love letting me know how trash I am and that I should never play again. if you are the type of person to spam ff and gg after dying due to your own stupidity or not getting ganks or anyone on your team randomly dies you are probably the type of person that would benefit a lot from the uninstall option
: You gave the reason riot removed urf again. People only want to play URF. It causes the game to drop in players following the release and removal of the gamemode.
> [{quoted}](name=Cind3rkick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NXeOxcbF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-29T08:50:47.869+0000) > > You gave the reason riot removed urf again. > > People only want to play URF. > It causes the game to drop in players following the release and removal of the gamemode. thats a myth proven by riot people want to play urf but they don't play it for long i myself enjoy urf a lot until people start playing to win instead of playing to have fun in the mode and that moment comes usually 2-3 days into the mode and it becomes cancerous rather fast people stopped playing league back in the day after urf because the base game was THAT much slower CDR wasn't a free stat movement speed was slower There was no cannon everyone had to play with TP URF then was actually another game URF today is league on steroids
: Dreading playing this Season in Ranked.
have you tried playing other games and coming back to lol when you see something that excites you again? like a champion a rework an event or what not you aren't tied to playing only this game go do something else
wildfox9T (EUW)
: so what this have to do whit the argument? you said "JuSt CoUnTeRpIcK" and i told you that this is a bad way to balance a game,let's say what if i pick first then my enemy picks vlad? i never said that you shouldn't build gw,but assuming you can always counterpick is just dumb
> [{quoted}](name=wildfox9T,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TpA1isRJ,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T21:10:21.363+0000) > > so what this have to do whit the argument? > > you said "JuSt CoUnTeRpIcK" and i told you that this is a bad way to balance a game,let's say what if i pick first then my enemy picks vlad? > i never said that you shouldn't build gw,but assuming you can always counterpick is just dumb i said you can always counter pick if you don't want to buy the fucking item you guys really enjoy your finger workouts don't you?
Kurorade (NA)
: Tanks Nerfs?
HERE IT IS HERE IS THE THREAD I WAS WAITING FOR THE THREAD I SAID WAS GOING TO HAPPEN 2 WEEKS AGO THANK GOD THIS COMMUNITY IS THIS GARBAGE SO THAT PREDICTIONS LIKE THIS COME TO REALITY THANK YOU MR KURORADE AND YOUR SUB AVERAGE IQ YOU ARE THE ONE WE WERE HOPING TO FIND!!! https://pm1.narvii.com/6517/5c0faa636b21d2e6d151c875a1949193146f098a_hq.jpg
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TpA1isRJ,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-27T16:09:14.675+0000) > > or you know play champions with grevious wounds Not enough riot fucking the action of one tricking in the ass, we need to play specific champions if we want to not lose now. Seems legit
> [{quoted}](name=Delightful Mango,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TpA1isRJ,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2019-11-28T16:26:19.707+0000) > > Not enough riot fucking the action of one tricking in the ass, we need to play specific champions if we want to not lose now. Seems legit thats an option give to you you choose play the game on hard mode or play it on easy mode
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V0bAZmR2,comment-id=0001000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T14:51:58.461+0000) > > that would mean you assume you are playing wtih NPCs People are egotistical. Especially really competitive ones, so it's the easiest way to manipulate them, and if they just say well I'm going to do what I want anyway, they're the real problem in everyone else's eyes and you're free to do whatever needs to be done so that you're good for the rest of the game. Also just assuming I'm playing with Americans mostly, we have a very egotistical and self important culture. You ever heard Doublelift talk, he's got skills, but also knows he's arrogant, to a fault. A lot of this is based on conflict de-escalation techniques.
> [{quoted}](name=blindasleep,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V0bAZmR2,comment-id=00010000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T15:02:33.955+0000) > > People are egotistical. Especially really competitive ones, so it's the easiest way to manipulate them, and if they just say well I'm going to do what I want anyway, they're the real problem in everyone else's eyes and you're free to do whatever needs to be done so that you're good for the rest of the game. Also just assuming I'm playing with Americans mostly, we have a very egotistical and self important culture. Yes it seems you assume you are playing with NPCs That way of thinking is fine after all it's soloq one vs the world
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V0bAZmR2,comment-id=00010000000000010001,timestamp=2019-11-28T14:22:14.943+0000) > > when you are playing a hard counter matchup and your laner wants to play passive > thats where you do what you have to and if he ints he ints > > im not going to play a lane wrong and lose my win condition just because my laner is spineless > id rather lose the lane trying to play my win condition than lose my won lane because my support/ad is dumb That's kind of what I'm getting at, but if you both believe you're right appealing to their ego and swallowing your pride a bit might sway them to try your way, whatever that may be, then when you're proven right they'll be happy because they came out ahead, and if they don't listen, you do what you need to and they come out the bad guy, so the rest of the team will still work with you. If they work with you they get to feel good believing they "strengthened the weakest link" and will usually be easier to sway later because now they like you more and trust you because you "recognized your own weaknesses", which means you might have the intelligence to recognize your teams strengths to make calls.
> [{quoted}](name=blindasleep,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V0bAZmR2,comment-id=000100000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-11-28T14:40:14.454+0000) > > appealing to their ego and swallowing your pride that would mean you assume you are playing wtih NPCs
: > [{quoted}](name=Thingamajig,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V0bAZmR2,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T12:28:00.697+0000) > > then adapt to the situation that you are put in > maybe your support has a specific idea in mind with him pushing > you know like applying pressure so your jungler can take drake or invade > > hay who knows maybe your supports are just dogshit and you are the next faker of this world and are just being held down by these shit supports with their minion execute item This right here. I don't do PvP a lot, but I'm a support main when I do and one of the first things I do is ask my lane partner if they want to play passive or aggressive early. Communication is especially powerful in a duo lane because unless one of you goes god mode in a 1v2 you are dependent on each other for survival much less getting ahead. Just getting on the same page if your opponents aren't in tune with each other can win the game from lane phase. As simple as "hey I'm not really comfortable with hard pushing" is great because it also makes them feel like your taking responsibility by doubting your own ability to play that way without making them feel like you think they're a problem. If they react badly to that then they're a dick and if they die because you really didn't feel you could have stopped it you get to say "I'm sorry but I told you that didn't think I could do my part for that play style." If they flame you then they weren't planning on working with anyone that wouldn't do exactly what they wanted anyway and you can adjust accordingly, but the majority of the time they'll adjust to work with you because they want to win.
> [{quoted}](name=blindasleep,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=V0bAZmR2,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-28T12:50:53.723+0000) > > This right here. I don't do PvP a lot, but I'm a support main when I do and one of the first things I do is ask my lane partner if they want to play passive or aggressive early. Communication is especially powerful in a duo lane because unless one of you goes god mode in a 1v2 you are dependent on each other for survival much less getting ahead. Just getting on the same page if your opponents aren't in tune with each other can win the game from lane phase. As simple as "hey I'm not really comfortable with hard pushing" is great because it also makes them feel like your taking responsibility by doubting your own ability to play that way without making them feel like you think they're a problem. If they react badly to that then they're a dick and if they die because you really didn't feel you could have stopped it you get to say "I'm sorry but I told you that didn't think I could do my part for that play style." If they flame you then they weren't planning on working with anyone that wouldn't do exactly what they wanted anyway and you can adjust accordingly, but the majority of the time they'll adjust to work with you because they want to win. when you are playing a hard counter matchup and your laner wants to play passive thats where you do what you have to and if he ints he ints im not going to play a lane wrong and lose my win condition just because my laner is spineless id rather lose the lane trying to play my win condition than lose my won lane because my support/ad is dumb
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Thingamajig

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