Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: I don't believe in your belief that Akali was BETTER before the rework. And i honestly don't even know how can people actually claim this. I've played her before the rework and she's had a ton of issues ranging from super weak pre-6 game, shroud being too small and easily countered by a vision ward, her Q being entirely dependent on having to proc it on an enemy, which she doesn't have a chance to unless she hits 6, etc... After she hits 6 and gets a Gunblade, you can't then peel her off as she can just cut you to ribbons and she can play as aggressive as she wants to push her advantage even more into the "broken" assassin territory. >--- #What did her VGU actually change: * _Uncoupled Q proc meant a new proc passive_ Allowed Akali to trade back some damage in a case of a short combo, making her attack semi-range in the process. It did not require full "stick-ability" to her target. * _The shroud issue was fixed_ With zero reliability from her shroud before, this gave her a lot of power from her W in terms of true stealth. Bigger radius means more wiggle room, untargetability from targeted spells, energy refund on cast so she could combo at least one more spell (rewarding aggressive shroud plays) and under tower super safe dives. * _Dependency from Gunblade was removed_ Her near full/full energy gave her Q a heal. Which means she could, as a melee assassin, take some punishment, dish damage back and just get a bit healthier from minion farming. Concept was sound but this didn't stop Akali from investing in a Gunblade anyway. * _With her being the new waveclear tool, her E was given a link to enemies or her shroud_ One personally favorite aspect is this ninja run ability. It isn't used as a damage tool in any way, shape or form, it's just way of getting to your designated target or serves as a small dash. * _Her ult was given more impact from the old knee-skull kick_ Micro stun into an execute move on all targets in a line is an improvement. Plus, it can be used as a double dash out of the situation, which meant a ticket out of a fight, but at the cost of a big damage potential. This tradeoff is something i can agree with and it has a hefty CD to boot. >-- ##The problems that remained: * _Too much focus for her Shroud to become her stand-out ability_ This was eating up her power budget but before all the nerfs, enemy turret invisibility and her mobility meant constant danger of being all-inned "for free". Also, her single spell immunity and her Q heal provided added safety for dives that happened a lot. A bit of skill put into learning Akali meant her players could basically do a lot of aggressive plays and just get out of them for free, if it didn't work out. * _Gunblade Spell Vamp + her Q heal meant a lot of sustain in lane_ As i've mentioned it before, her burden from Gunblade was lifted before level 6 but this remained her mainstay item. If she wasn't immediately dealt with a single target, nuclear tipped ability before she entered her shroud, there was little chance of a fight turning out in the enemy's favor. * _Nerf after nerf, everything was hit except her shroud_ This left her even more dependent on it and once these nerfs came (compounded with the others), it left her without damage, heal or a reliable way to escape her attackers in the shroud. Her short ranged Q isn't enough to even harass from a somewhat in-range distance, meaning that you're likely to take all the damage first from a full rotation before you even manage to Q and AA the target. * _She has a recommended Sunfire in her build_ Overall transitioned into a "skirmisher" than an actual assassin. I don't mind her damage being delayed in order to make it fair for the enemy to respond to it but i've never seen Akali even consider full AP builds unless she clearly manages to be so well off in her own lane that she stomps other lanes with each visit too. Spirit Visage and Gunblade pay off more than playing with much more riskier squishy builds.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2019-03-03T20:38:52.534+0000) > > I don't believe in your belief that Akali was BETTER before the rework. > And i honestly don't even know how can people actually claim this. I've played her before the rework and she's had a ton of issues ranging from super weak pre-6 game, shroud being too small and easily countered by a vision ward, her Q being entirely dependent on having to proc it on an enemy, which she doesn't have a chance to unless she hits 6, etc... > > After she hits 6 and gets a Gunblade, you can't then peel her off as she can just cut you to ribbons and she can play as aggressive as she wants to push her advantage even more into the "broken" assassin territory. > > #What did her VGU actually change: > > > * _Uncoupled Q proc meant a new proc passive_ > > Allowed Akali to trade back some damage in a case of a short combo, making her attack semi-range in the process. It did not require full "stick-ability" to her target. > > * _The shroud issue was fixed_ > > With zero reliability from her shroud before, this gave her a lot of power from her W in terms of true stealth. Bigger radius means more wiggle room, untargetability from targeted spells, energy refund on cast so she could combo at least one more spell (rewarding aggressive shroud plays) and under tower super safe dives. > > * _Dependency from Gunblade was removed_ > > Her near full/full energy gave her Q a heal. > Which means she could, as a melee assassin, take some punishment, dish damage back and just get a bit healthier from minion farming. Concept was sound but this didn't stop Akali from investing in a Gunblade anyway. > > * _With her being the new waveclear tool, her E was given a link to enemies or her shroud_ > > One personally favorite aspect is this ninja run ability. > It isn't used as a damage tool in any way, shape or form, it's just way of getting to your designated target or serves as a small dash. > > * _Her ult was given more impact from the old knee-skull kick_ > > Micro stun into an execute move on all targets in a line is an improvement. Plus, it can be used as a double dash out of the situation, which meant a ticket out of a fight, but at the cost of a big damage potential. This tradeoff is something i can agree with and it has a hefty CD to boot. > > ##The problems that remained: > > * _Too much focus for her Shroud to become her stand-out ability_ > > This was eating up her power budget but before all the nerfs, enemy turret invisibility and her mobility meant constant danger of being all-inned "for free". Also, her single spell immunity and her Q heal provided added safety for dives that happened a lot. A bit of skill put into learning Akali meant her players could basically do a lot of aggressive plays and just get out of them for free, if it didn't work out. > > * _Gunblade Spell Vamp + her Q heal meant a lot of sustain in lane_ > > As i've mentioned it before, her burden from Gunblade was lifted before level 6 but this remained her mainstay item. If she wasn't immediately dealt with a single target, nuclear tipped ability before she entered her shroud, there was little chance of a fight turning out in the enemy's favor. > > * _Nerf after nerf, everything was hit except her shroud_ > > This left her even more dependent on it and once these nerfs came (compounded with the others), it left her without damage, heal or a reliable way to escape her attackers in the shroud. Her short ranged Q isn't enough to even harass from a somewhat in-range distance, meaning that you're likely to take all the damage first from a full rotation before you even manage to Q and AA the target. > > * _She has a recommended Sunfire in her build_ > > Overall transitioned into a "skirmisher" than an actual assassin. > I don't mind her damage being delayed in order to make it fair for the enemy to respond to it but i've never seen Akali even consider full AP builds unless she clearly manages to be so well off in her own lane that she stomps other lanes with each visit too. Spirit Visage and Gunblade pay off more than playing with much more riskier squishy builds. Im not saying that old Akali was better or worse, i just want a fix, even if it means reverting her. I just want to play Akali and actually be an assassin. shroud being too small and easily countered by a vision ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This wasnt possible with the version of Akali just before the rework, also if u take the volume of the new shroud it just as big. its a longer distance if you are at the wrong side of the shroud cause you wont run trough the middle most of the time. The shroud was also a more effective escape tool as the zone also slowed and had a blink Only way to fully reveal old Akali her was things like Towers and tether abilities with som exeptions. , TF R, Lee E/Q and so on her Q being entirely dependent on having to proc it on an enemy, which she doesn't have a chance to unless she hits 6, etc --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is wrong, countless of kills because shroud had blink and you were able to punish them hard for walking to close. But yes it was harder. but possible. I don't mind her damage being delayed in order to make it fair for the enemy to respond ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What other assassin has delay? (except Zed's ult) they reverted LB who they gave DMG delay. The Delay isnt only on her ult. but also on her Q with the passive. You have to run away from the carry to deal DMG as a regular AA is worthless when you want to burst (maybe just to proc lich/sheen if you know it will secure the kill) . giving them another 0.5-1 sec. you then have too add the ult CD for R1 R2. which is 2,5 sec. you want to do the full combo. (unless you are super fed) this gives the adc a total of 3 sec. yes you can play around the shroud to actually live trough when you go for the carry. The carry just needs to go away from you shroud or hide inside their team and you are almost guaranteed to die but you might get the kill. i just use her shroud to zone in TF's. as often this is more effective than trying to kill the ADC, cause most of their team will be focused on protecting their carry. And use this a method to make it a short 4v2 or 4v3 for my team. and hopefully get their team to burn som cc or abilities on me. im not telling you this to convince you old Akali was better than new Akali. But just the state she is in and how i found her enjoyable before just pushing me to the side who want her reverted. Low pickrate, Low banrate, medium winrate. I like the new Akali and that she has much more mechanical demanding kit, but if it doesnt work out and end up being impossible to balance her in anyway, they would have to revert her and start over again with another idea. You have good points in the post :) but the fact that they have taken the assassin out of her makes me sad.
: Akali mains are just mad their champion isn't freelo anymore. Let them whine.
> [{quoted}](name=Colonel J,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-03-03T04:48:15.139+0000) > > Akali mains are just mad their champion isn't freelo anymore. > > Let them whine. Its a bit harsh to say. You can get freelo with almost any champ if you decide to get godlike microplay with a champ. You invest time to make perfect plays in different matchup. I mainly play xerath now. He is freelo too. And he is 100% safer than old Akali. But you dont feel the same way about a kill and mechanics are limited. Take Riven for example. People who invest time in her and know every combo and know what to do vs every matchup will also win a majority of their games. Leading to "freelo" as you call it. But they have invested their time to get to there
: > [{quoted}](name=Tixtop,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-03-02T01:54:47.640+0000) > Riot have done an amazing job reworking champions and finding quick ways to balance those champions in to league. But its just so different with Akali for some reason. > Show her some love riot please. Even if that means reverting her. That's funny. I've seen the exact same words being spoken about another member of the Kinkou, {{champion:98}}. We can all see how our favorite tank ninja top laner and jungler ended up. I won't say give up hope, but don't set your expectations too high at this point.
> [{quoted}](name=Melledoneus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-03-02T18:57:03.691+0000) > > That's funny. I've seen the exact same words being spoken about another member of the Kinkou, {{champion:98}}. > > We can all see how our favorite tank ninja top laner and jungler ended up. > > I won't say give up hope, but don't set your expectations too high at this point. Well the core mechanics didnt get torn apart and shen is a viable champion. The only thing shen missed totaly was his Q and the Q beeing able to heal allies. His passive became the new Q (dealing bonus dmg) His W became his passive. His E is still there. And his R is still there. Meaning this wouldnt change his gameplay as much as Akalis gameplay has changed. They took away the assassin in Akali IMO What assassin would throw a knife at someone go and hit them. *realising the target didnt die* throw the knife one more time. Run away. Run back and hit them. The 0.5-1 sec you are using to run away from a target to get passive swinging again is against all law what an assassins should do
: Her overall design was just bad from the beginning and a slap in the face to Old Akali players. Centering her whole playstyle around an ability that has to be broken for her to be good is not a good idea. They wanted to keep the ability unique and cool so they nerfed everything else for like 6 months before finally giving up and gutting the thing her kit was centered around. Now she's not unique at all and has a really poorly designed kit. Rework was a 0/10
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-02T02:22:23.619+0000) > > Her overall design was just bad from the beginning and a slap in the face to Old Akali players. Centering her whole playstyle around an ability that has to be broken for her to be good is not a good idea. They wanted to keep the ability unique and cool so they nerfed everything else for like 6 months before finally giving up and gutting the thing her kit was centered around. Now she's not unique at all and has a really poorly designed kit. Rework was a 0/10 Im also a "old" Akali main(from season 6) if you mean like PR Akali. And 100% i would like to see a revert, totaly new playstyle as you say. And i think its a downgrade from what we had and what old akali mains liked about the champion
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-02T20:19:49.530+0000) > > Not trashing them how? Riot is a business. They can't do the things they want to do most of the time, they do what their audience wants most of the time. Riot introduced positional ranked and likely would want to keep it, but, due to the overwhelming amount of negativity have to, at the very least, heavily alter it. > > That's why Riot looked at the ban rate and win rate of Akali a couple of patches ago and decided to nerf her. And i disagree. This game would be way better balance wise if they only balanced for diamond 1+
> [{quoted}](name=NocturnalSheild,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=000300010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-02T21:53:37.755+0000) > > And i disagree. This game would be way better balance wise if they only balanced for diamond 1+ This wouldnt work out at all. Its basicly saying to all under D1+ your shit. And like 99% of the playerbase is there. The hard part about is balancing it for everyone. But they cant just care about the 1% it would mean the death of league
: > [{quoted}](name=Tixtop,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-02T02:17:15.224+0000) > > Any company in the world wouldnt like to revert anything. And i think Akali is an evergoing topic at Riot nowadays. Time is money. And a revert just means trowhing money and time down the drain. Cause at the end of the day its all about the money. So they are probably gonna try everything to make the RW work before they they would even consider reverting her. Which i support Sunk cost at best, functional fixedness at worst (or is it vice versa?). Just because something took time and money doesn't mean it should be kept like an albatross around the neck. If they need to invest the amount of resources balancing Akali that they had to do w/ fixing Morde's bugs they'll just do what they did w/ Morde and throw their hands up, then that'll be the end of that. New Akali's dash-in-and-out gameplay is cool as well as how her shroud works. Perhaps together they become too hard to balance. Maybe they find a way to make it work, maybe they try to incorporate the shroud and gameplay into multiple other champions. Just because they invested a bunch of time and money into her rework doesn't mean that it has to stay that way forever. Everyone makes mistakes, and Akali's rework is possibly one of them (not that the original iteration was all that healthy either).
> [{quoted}](name=Glaricion,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-02T08:35:22.864+0000) > > Sunk cost at best, functional fixedness at worst (or is it vice versa?). Just because something took time and money doesn't mean it should be kept like an albatross around the neck. If they need to invest the amount of resources balancing Akali that they had to do w/ fixing Morde's bugs they'll just do what they did w/ Morde and throw their hands up, then that'll be the end of that. > > New Akali's dash-in-and-out gameplay is cool as well as how her shroud works. Perhaps together they become too hard to balance. > Maybe they find a way to make it work, maybe they try to incorporate the shroud and gameplay into multiple other champions. > > Just because they invested a bunch of time and money into her rework doesn't mean that it has to stay that way forever. > > Everyone makes mistakes, and Akali's rework is possibly one of them (not that the original iteration was all that healthy either). Dont get me wrong about she has to to be in RW state. Its more principle. This goes for everyone. If you build a rool and the floor is quirky. You dont tear down the whole room to fix it. Unless you actually have to
: Her overall design was just bad from the beginning and a slap in the face to Old Akali players. Centering her whole playstyle around an ability that has to be broken for her to be good is not a good idea. They wanted to keep the ability unique and cool so they nerfed everything else for like 6 months before finally giving up and gutting the thing her kit was centered around. Now she's not unique at all and has a really poorly designed kit. Rework was a 0/10
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-02T02:22:23.619+0000) > > Her overall design was just bad from the beginning and a slap in the face to Old Akali players. Centering her whole playstyle around an ability that has to be broken for her to be good is not a good idea. They wanted to keep the ability unique and cool so they nerfed everything else for like 6 months before finally giving up and gutting the thing her kit was centered around. Now she's not unique at all and has a really poorly designed kit. Rework was a 0/10 Hey Recognize you from the subreddit. I just hope that some rioters will see the posts and acually care about the playerbase and akali mains opinions
: At this point I would say a revert is fair but Riot really doesn’t like doing that; and though reworks have been reverted, VGU’s never have; Akali will have to be a first.
> [{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aF5etRVR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-02T01:58:34.351+0000) > > At this point I would say a revert is fair but Riot really doesn’t like doing that; and though reworks have been reverted, VGU’s never have; Akali will have to be a first. Any company in the world wouldnt like to revert anything. And i think Akali is an evergoing topic at Riot nowadays. Time is money. And a revert just means trowhing money and time down the drain. Cause at the end of the day its all about the money. So they are probably gonna try everything to make the RW work before they they would even consider reverting her. Which i support
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Tixtop

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