: but the point is, why do we have to play the game on a lower budget than everyone else? It's fun to have 6 items, it sucks to be capped out on gold and limited to 3 items.
It's still operating on some season 2 level thinking that the support is a fifth wheel that doesn't deserve to play on the level of everyone else and is sacrificed on the altar of warding and being a meatshield for the carry.
: Here's my feeling on the support items: 1) They actually are fair when you are the stronger bot laners. They SUCK when you are countered and cannot use them. When you cannot poke because poking would result in counterpoke which is much stronger, or even a hard CC, you're screwed. You will take 20+ minutes to quest. When you are the strong lane, your Quest for wards will finish about 2-3 minutes later than the old support items, but your overall accumulation, item advantage, will generally enable a strong lead anyways, due to takedown opportunities increasing. 2) The timing of gold accumulation is a problem. Old items allowed the 500 Quest to generally give you wards before most junglers would challenge Drakes. Now, the items are finishing the 500 mark by about 11 minutes when playing well, 2-3 minutes AFTER the first drake is contested. Control wards only go so far. On Nami, I used to get the Quest in under 9 minutes. Why is this happening? Isn't the Tier 1 gold higher now? 3) Mana regen has made costs more selective and passive. This is why my Nami is now lucky to get 500G by 11 minutes. I used to be able to economize around Manaflow Band alone, and W > Auto > Q and pick up my 3 stacks whenever Manaflow went off cooldown. Now..... if you do that you will run out of mana by 6 minutes. In other words, support item procs no longer synergize well with Manaflow band, even though "it's what we have." 4) The late game penalty needs removed. ------------ The Good: All Support items can now be used by ALL champions. #I cannot understress the value of this. Do you expect to be countered by Jhin as Senna? buy {{item:3854}} instead of {{item:3862}} . Poke Minions instead of champions so you can farm gold at a safe range, have a little more HP to take the occasional shot. Poke lane for Nami? go {{item:3858}} Instead of {{item:3850}} Making these choices are going to be pivotal to your season 10 climb
Yeah having those options of AP/AD and damage/tank is really good. They could really have done without the horrid farm penalty and the terrible stats nerfs though.
: List Of Champions Who Do And Don't Like The Fervor Changes
I believe Urgot prefers this one for sustained fights. Yes he doesn't auto a lot but he spams Q which also stack.
GankLord (NA)
: Lack luster vision Season 6 was a fun and all but ...
{{item:3361}} {{item:3362}} {{item:3361}} {{item:3362}} {{item:3361}} NEVER FORGET. I BUILT IT IN EVER SINGLE GAME AND I WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER IT.
: Star guardian urgot
As an Urgot main with over 240k mastery, I am astonished.
: Ezreal, the Prodigal Abuser.
It's the nature of an ability that procs on hit effect. It's like damage scaling off health, it breaks items.
: the beams seem to be a bit meh in terms of strength. Maybe increase the number of beams in the Nexus/Inhib towers, to, like, five. Then they could clear minions faster, but keep diving easy (the beams wouldn't target the same dude)
I've always felt that beams were considerably less effective, especially as a deterrent than missiles. Even against super minions I'm not convinced the escalating missile damage wouldn't be better.
: It's kind of funny how one-trick-ponies are the ones who would care the most about mastery
PaladinNO (EUNE)
: http://pm1.narvii.com/5968/69c9853021605f70bd79f8bc22f080965a66e197_hq.jpg https://i.warosu.org/data/ic/img/0023/43/1452331411217.jpg "Sometimes, it's not about the body; it's the personality"
Well it's still about the body but in a different way. I still cry myself to sleep every night when I think about the Evelynn boob nerf.
: What would be the point in having all that difficulty in getting the thing open if it gives the same stuff? also, would this eliminate the possibility of using one of the three to open another war chest? (side note, many of your undecided champs have an alinement. Alistar, Annie, Nid, Rengo and Zyra are from some jungle near Noxus. Brand and Gnar are freliordian in nature. Ez, Janna, Ryze all hail from plitover, zil too by technicality. Illoia is Bildge, kayle and morg are Demacian and Noxian "respectively", maol is Shadow isle. Shyv is also Demacian. Syndra and Yas are Ionian. what is left is Fidd, Jax, Malph, Noc and 'Raka.
Thanks for the help. The point is to give a bit of variety to the system, to give people some incentive to play different champions ; in a bit of the same way that the mastery for chest system works. As for the idea of eliminating champions for another chest, I'm not sure that should work that way, since some groups are significantly smaller than others.
Comentários de Rioters
Aeszarck (NA)
: Ashe's lack of mobility allows a lot of power to be frontloaded into her kit, however. Most new players won't be able to take advantage of the mobility that many other marksmen/markswomen/marksmanimals have, and so therefore won't be getting all of the effective power out of the champion's kit. I'd rather not have to deal with dodging spells with spells as a new player. I definitely agree with the Ryze thing though. He's hard as hell to play optimally, even with the 5-spell arcane overcharge nerf.
Ashe also forces new players who might not understand how to build to begin with to juggle with a faffy, entirely unique passive.
Jim (NA)
: Riot has crossed the line.
**IT IS ABSOLUTELY PERFECT**
: Can we do something about Karthus?
Welcome to my club. {{champion:6}}
: Well I mean in several fighting games, there's super armor that's just... For the duration of the move, or sometimes it can only absorb one or two hits.
: Glittercast Taric
_WITH GEMS LIKE THESE WHO NEEDS HAMMERS ?_
: Which ability would it replace? Also, ALL HoTS champs(almost) have really innovative abilities and kits. Shame that the game has fallen off hard though.
It's a shame but it's understandable. The game doesn't have that much depth. The fact it doesn't have builds or a consistent map scheme or recognized meta means it's a big brawl most of the time, and you can expect your hero to behave basically the same way in all matches.
: Giving him CC-immunity to SOME degree would also be great for the "I don't give a fuck" factor. I dunno how much anybody here knows about fighting games, but Nemesis in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 has one Hyper Combo that's literally just him swinging and marching forward with full super armor.
Or as it's called in Super Smash "super armor".
: Not everyone is meant to be strong late... Some people have literally useless passives late game... Like Varus if he has 2.50 AS... there are more.
: {{champion:127}} :D
With her short ranges and massive CC and burst, she's closer to a tank mage than a control mage.
Serika Zero (EUNE)
: this guy can R to put you in WQ range tho
It's only a knockback, on an _ultimate cooldown_. Take Graves for example, he can just dash in back again. Same for Jax, Panth and most assassins.
: It doesn't have to be more powerful, Aurelion probably entrusted some knowledge about cosmic magic to targonians and space-fairing empire and they used it to chain him somehow. It was his misjudged trust to make him fall rather than others being more powerful. It's all speculation though.
They gotta be pretty clever to limit this guy to spinning around flaming basketballs only to get dropped by what is literally only a large rat.
: His short lore is that he was enslaved by a super powerful space-fairing race.
Great, now we have something even bigger to be bothered by. Also, he still_ forges stars_.
: > [{quoted}](name=Brâ1ncânc3r,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=VFEcHiNt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-08T20:33:54.394+0000) > > i have no idea how you are supposed to play this guy. > his q and r deal dmg. his w and e dont deal dmg. (well his w expands his passive so it kinda deals dmg) alot of his damage looks like comes from his empowered passive, though if you miss that q your about as screwed as a anivia would be
At least Anivia can save her bacon with a convenient wall.
: I doubt it, there's 3 of them so probably something like 20% AP at best with moderately scaling base damage. Although, he has W to amplify them, so they probably do get some insane scaling when you're toggling W.
You still need to hit shit with it. He will get trolled very hard by any melee champ with enough tenacity. Draven cut him like a loaf of bread and, jesus god, Olaf will absolutely butcher him.
: ... -__- #CALLED IT http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/hAAENp3A-what-the-lore-power-curve-feels-like-right-now?comment=001c00010000 I seriously hope future champs don't have this lore breaking "god like power and size" only to wind up just smaller than the turrets with maybe a fraction of their described power. Without a good reason, even something like "powerful summoners trapped him in a smaller body, with reduced his power in the process", this crap just hurts my sense of order. On the plus side, we now know who the strongest champ (lore wise) is.
Yep, it really breaks the immersion. Xerath for me was already a bit of a stretch considering he's supposed to have near unlimited power, I feel the lore team is trolling us by saying "here's god". And meanwhile Twitch is _literally_ a very large rat.
: You know I was joking but
This is what bothers me with this guy's theme. Tahm Kench has the excuse that "this isn't even my final form", it really breaks the character in my eyes. It's like if they created a champion who is "literally god" and then try fitting it in. At the very least, they could pull a Soraka and make him a fallen dragon or some shit.
Meep Man (NA)
: Vel'Koz E is suspension if I recall, so it's still reduced by Tenacity.
Jesus christ. Apparently it works like an airborne, it looks like an airborne, is counted as an airborne by Yasuo but is not reduced by Tenacity because Riot has a hate boner against logic.
Ludovico (EUW)
: Yea that was my bad (damn I formulated thta badly :P )! There are LOTS of reasons for me to pick Vel over the other 2 (and more) choices: - Gameplay (true dmg passive, very fluent feeling, great ult for teamfights) - Thematic (tentacles, void monster high on knowledge, golden darn) ______________________________________________________ But that´s not to say, that I don´t get Riots reasoning. I just found it to be very funny, that a champion gets picked in such a big competition by such a well known player (when the reason for his rework is his lack of reasons to be picked).
Another point as well is that they recently buffed Tenacity. Tenacity reduces the length of stuns {{champion:45}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:101}} and roots {{champion:99}} but not knock-ups {{champion:161}}.
Mhihnj (EUW)
: click the damn lantern
At least this one means having to interact with someone else's kit.
Ackelope (NA)
: Maybe, but I'm pretty sure the reason they want to shorten games is to make them feel more fast-paced and **fun** . The longer death timers certainly makes games shorter, but in turn causes a lot of safer play to go on as the game does and the game gets steadily less fun as it goes on, as you end up spending more time watching the game in black and white than anything else if you get killed.
It makes games shorter in the same way that a fed Master Yi makes the game shorter.
: Tell your team to not avoid the enemy team.
: Here's a relatively short comparison of Lee Sin and Nautilus, (**TL;DR at the bottom**). But first, to clarify: **Lee Sin scales with _BONUS_ AD, not just 90% of his total AD.** There's a big difference there. Having _**BONUS**_ AD scaling means he must *build damage items* to get any extra damage on them, and has to build multiple damage items to get significant extra damage. Nautilus's isn't made to scale too well with damage items, but he has high base damages on his basic abilities to compensate (on top of having insane CC). Every single one of Nautilus's basic abilities have a higher base damage than any of Lee Sins while at the same time being much better at locking a target down. Even his shield is better than Lee Sins, as while it doesn't have as high bases, it scales with *max* HP and also gives him a DOT on auto attacks which does a pretty decent amount of damage per second. To compare their ults, Lee Sin's is a single target *melee range* kick that freezes him in place while performing it, Nautilus's ult is a *targeted* ranged abilitiy that follows the target around, knocking them up and anyone along the way, with an added second of stun on the main target after the 1 second knockup finishes. This knockup also keeps them in place where Lee Sin's sends them flying (possibly to the detriment of his team if they screw it up). There's huge differences between these two ults which make them hard to compare, but put simply, one is damage focused while the other is CC focused and much more reliable at that. --- In short, Nautilus can build full tank and still do good damage early and okay damage late while providing amazing CC all game. Lee Sin either builds full tank and provides _okay_ CC with mediocre damage, builds full damage and does a lot of damage if he doesn't get blown up, or builds tanky bruiser and does good damage early and decent/okay damage late with _okay_ CC. Nautilus is a reliable CC heavy tank that currently does more damage than he probably ought considering all that CC be brings to the table, while Lee Sin is an assassin/fighter that must choose between living long enough to provide his team with one hard CC or doing a lot of damage and being useful that way. Nautilus is reliable while Lee Sin really just isn't. All of this can apply when comparing Nautilus to just about any other top laner as well. Nautilus is tanky and loaded with CC while also painful to his enemies. He's pretty much _the_ tank to play right now.
Also, you're the one who brought it up, declaring that Nautilus had as much damage as Lee Sin while building tanky (and I even forgot to mention his %missing health damage).
: TFW Aurelion Sol...
{{champion:29}} is literally just a large rat.
: Completely ignoring the fact that Naut has never been in obscurity. He just wasnt a super popular pick but he was fairly common. Right now he is a nightmare to face. His engages are much more reliable and longer than Blitzcrank, while having a bigger amount of CC than Sejuani and dealing Lee Sin levels of damage. You can't, just can't let the squishies alone with Naut because he will solo 2 - 3 of them every time before late game kicks in. This nerf is completely deserved and shouldn't have any kind of compensation
Blitzcrank doesn't have an engage, he has a grab, which you use to pick someone and hence get an advantage that allows you to confidently start a fight afterwards. Nautilus has a grab-closer. It doesn't grab people, it puts him and an enemy midway through so that he can act as a wall to protect his team, with his area of effect slow and conditional root. That's what Nautilus is designed to be ; he's an immovable object on the field of justice who slows down the pace of the game around him. And "Lee Sin levels of damage ?" F you. Lee sin has 90% AD ratio on his Q, 100% on his E, **200% on his R with 600 base damage, which deals full damage to multiple targets**. The best ratio Nautilus has is 80% on his ult.
kile147 (NA)
: Grasp of the Undying was a huge buff to him top lane though. He should have to use his shield to win trades, but with grasp he can go even on trades without using his shield which makes him win trades massively when he does use it.
Once again masteries ruin everything.
Gusicles (NA)
: Compensation for Nautilus?
Nautilus' numbers haven't been touched since 5.22 and in fact some defensive items have been nerfed ; he's definitely doing good because he fits well in the current meta.
: From what I hear Plat sounds a lot like Bronze At least plat gets season rewards
More like Silver. It's the nature of border regions. The fear of falling in Bronze haunts silver players, much like the idea of falling into Gold haunts Platinum players. It's basically like people live in a permanent exam environement. There's a huge ammount of competition and ego. By comparison, most of the III's tend to be chill because they don't have this kind of insecurity.
: I'll be honest I've been seeing a lot of 5 AD comps lately, and picking Rammus jungle against them (when my team doesn't feed 0-3 before i'm lvl 6 in spite of my ganks that can barely patch the holes in the sinking ship), is practically freelo. I'm just sad about the ALL AD ALL THE TIME craze because I've really been enjoying Jhin, and I wanted to play and maybe take him on as a serious champ, but I cannot in good conscience try him in mid competitively when I have to 'expect' my team to be triple adc as rote measure.
I personally think Taric is an even better pick because he has a solid ammount of damage and team wide utility.
: And countering melee AD top. And other tanks.
To a degree, but not nearly as much. The biggest reason why Rammus counters ADCs is because they rely on autoattacks to deal damage while Rammus relies on being autoattacked to deal damage. Bruisers might not dent Rammus but then again they wouldn't do shit to Malphite or Taric either.
: And yet, despite all that, he has a 56% winrate in top lane. That's pretty good for a champ with a weak as hell early game, can't clear waves, can't trade for shit, and has terrible kill pressure.
_That's because he's very specifically countering ranged AD top._
: I read the patch notes and the most upsetting and completely appalling thing i read was: >The eagle screech in Statue of Karthus's dance audio is no longer global for allies. THIS IS BULLSHIT!!!
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1268/2673/1600/eagle21.jpg
: That combo requires 9400 gold. Morello, Deathcap, and Voidstaff gives 380AP and more damage towards anyone who built MR while being 550 gold cheaper. It also gives CDR for more rotations of spells, which leads to more damage. People in this thread are already complaining about how expensive AP itemization is, and your solution is to buy an even more expensive build with a later powerspike? Sure that combo works on some kite-based mages or DoT mages, but burst mages that rely on upfront damage cant use it as well. Utility mages also should heavily itemize for CDR to have the utility in their kit up more often.
It's not a "solution", I was giving an example of an actual build some people have and the large amount of health and utilities.
: They don't really though. Yall have Rod of Ages. The tannkiness you get from that is stupid. Yes it isn't armor but for that many raw stats, I'd still say it's pretty silly. Give a mid lane Mage ROA, Zhonya's and Abyssal and maybe an Athene's, the amount of durability you will have while still cranking out damage is just stupid.
Rod + Liandry's + Rylai's (which is not that silly to get together) gives a whopping 1200 HP, on top of around 300 AP, %max health damage, MRpen, a slow and mana to boot. In my view the biggest strength you get from AP items isn't just the combination of stats but the utility they give.
: Did you see the recent changes to his passive? Surprise, 3-hit mechanic {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
Nah, they reverted that particular nerf later in the cycle. They however added a fear component to his R, which might be fun or at the very least surprise people who don't read patch notes.
: Twitch's poison only applies thunderlord's once, while Morgana's W procs the whole thing, as does Singed and Miss Fortune. Zilean is incredibly hard to proc Thunderlord's now because of the time reduction a few patches ago (though I do believe it was necessary). Having one damaging ability is really annoying and only one heal (his ult) makes windspeaker's blessing really lame.
Twitch's passive isn't a spell.
Sohleks (NA)
: That would be a sad fate for Heimer because his turrets do not proc Thunderlords. _They don't even proc DFT_ In general I think for most champions and balance Thunderlord procs from dot is overkill. It's not even consistent is the thing...
Spaghetti code strikes again.
teamstar (NA)
: Don't forget {{champion:105}} 1 Urchin Strike procs it instantly, and {{champion:58}} just uses and empowered e and is also procced instantly.
Each tick of Singed's poison also counts as a strike.
: Dots shouldnt apply thunderlords
It's not even DoTs in general. It's spaghetti code. Some abilities trigger thunderlord's, other don't on seemingly arbitray grounds. The best I can decipher is that DoTs that can refresh (Singed's Q, Miss Fortune's rainfall) are counted as individual strikes while single instance DoTs are counted as one event (Urgot's E). Honestly, I don't see any chance that Rito will fix it.
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Westonbirt

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