Stexe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Scrooge McDank,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=e3Qq0YxJ,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2019-10-08T23:34:41.656+0000) > > is level 9 late game to you? Is level 9 early game to you? To me that is more mid-game to late-game. Since it will stay at that value. Just seems like a weird change to me. Surprised they didn't lower the damage and increase the AD ratio to make it scale better late game.
Then on that note, is level 4/5/7 _not_ early game to you? He gets 5 damage removed per level into q past his first. Smacking his level one might have been a bad idea, which might be why they did this. I think there might need to be more, but this isn't _not_ hitting his early game. It's just not hitting it really hard.
: You say youd willlingly pay 490rp to choose a little legend as if thats a good deal for riot. Id say a fair price would be 975 rp for basic 1350rp for epic and 1820 rp for legendary. And about 390 more for each star
i don't mean a specific color variant. I mean a specific Legend period. As in I'm still rolling for colors between 3 legends, just 1. What you offer means they just sell them like skins, which I'm also fine with, but that's WAY too high for base form. 750rp is the current price for picking the base color to begin with. And that includes an Icon, which is "worth" 250rp. So they themselves price the base Little Legends at 500rp. Though yeah, if you could just pay to upgrade them without spinning the rng wheel that'd be nice.
Norphea (NA)
: "We nerfed X because they are too strong in "pro" play" {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Eh. I think they should be smarter with these nerfs for sure, but they 100% should balance around pro play. Especially since they made the game team reliant, so solo queue is a mess anyways. Keep in mind, balancing things for Pro Play trickles down balance throughout the game. Maybe Darius is op in bronze, but it's more so because people aren't experienced enough to play against a champion like that. It's more a case of "learn/adapt" than a case of power. Nerfing him for low elo means he won't be used in any other elo. Which is the wrong thing to do. They have been using extremely direct nerfs to champions that are played in pro play, even if they don't need them or can be dealt with in other ways. Sej is going to be played in organized play like Pro Play as long as she's passable because she offers a lot to a team as a tank jungler that has good ganks around the map AND offers cc. So she's going to need to be gutted in order to not see play. Which uh.... Is also the wrong thing to do. I personally don't have solutions, but Riot isn't doing a good job with this and it's pretty clear to see.
: Imagine being angry that you cant get a full entire build of 6 items to annihilate. "Boo Hoo I hate balance!" Don't fret rito this wont be that big of a problem that people are making it. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
There are better ways to combat this. Keep in mind, this removes the stat bonuses from units too. So when you have units that are pretty lackluster without items... It's troublesome. If they left the stats, but removed passive abilities it'd be just fine. Plus, this doesn't affect origin/class items, so it only further encourages some of the more powerful items (Darkin, Blademaster, Yuumi. the passives for these are pretty insane.)
: Getting components creates a situation where everyone is building the same 2 items with any given component. Forcing you to have an uncommon items in your build will test your ability to make that work. I honestly think this would go better if it just happened to everyone at the same time (like dragon), only much earlier (like krugs)
Please tell me given these items: Recurve, Recurve, Spatula, Tear, Chainvest, Giant's Belt what every player would build. Hint, this is a trick question as there are MANY situations you'd combine these items for. Maybe you have Volibear and some demons and so you go RFC/Darkin and save the Chainvest and Giant's Belt for now unless there's a healing comp you need to counter with Red Buff. Or maybe you're going gunslingers/BladeMasters with a botrk already made and could use RFC to counter yordles and throw a red buff on your Graves or trist. OR maybe you don't need to counter yordles so you go a second botrk and throw it on your Lucian. And in this case you can go statikk shiv and save the components for red buff for a Morello when you pick up a nlr to put on your MF. Or maybe you're against assassins so instead of statikk you need a Phantom Dancer. I could continue with other comps, but I think you get the picture. Itemization isn't anywhere close to what you think it is. It's way more diverse and is situation based, not "okay this item is op let's throw it on my carry."
: It would force certain. Items to be built that aren't normally built (because they aren't one of the few OP items). This is not a guaranteed negative. It forces diversification of stratagy to accommodate uncommon items
No, the combination is only negative. What I mean by that is if you were to combine the item, you'd do it. It takes away the decision to combine it or not. That's negative, no matter if you think items are a problem or not. (item diversity is actually really good right now. It's just that some items are a lot worse than others. It's not that some are better.) Also keep in mind, items are built to counter certain comps and empower your own. If you're playing gunslingers and are against a healing heavy comp, you neeeeeeeed Red Buff or you lose. So what if you have a chain vest on your bench but it drops a completed redemption? Even though you needed that giants belt and could have made use of the tear later on, you LOSE now because the game decided to combine the items for you. Now say it it drops that Red Buff instead. What do you gain from it? You were going to build it anyways. There is no situation where the item dropping pre-made actually is positive. It's only negative.
Jabalor (NA)
: At least give us another free Little Legend egg?
This. I want a level 2 Hushtail so bad, but I can't pay the amount of rng you're asking for Riot. I'd willingly pay 490rp for a Little Legend if you could choose them. Even though that number is EXTREMELY predatory (leaves you with 400rp from a $10 pack) it's worth it if you could _choose_ the little legend. But tagging Rng into the equation is scummy af. And I mostly expected you to give us a selector Little Legend egg in the beta pass to compensate. But ig Tencent is too greedy to let that happen huh? Edit: I mean, even if you could choose the specific Legend you want a random variation of would be better than this. If I just want Hushtail, I don't want to have to rng my way through Protector and Paddlemar too. Its like if Hextech Chests were the only way to get league skins. It's shit.
Win Zhao (NA)
: Give us BE for playing. This is fake XP, it doesnt go towards my actual level, just beta pass. TFT is like the neglected stepbrother to League. You get punished for actually playing RIOT's new game.
Why would you earn stuff for League if you play TFT? Why would someone who plays primarily TFT, if not ONLY TFT, want BE? Emotes and Icons can be used in TFT. But BE can't buy anything for TFT.
Réígn (NA)
: Well the game is all about adaptation so as bad as this can be the game is still testing how well you adapt to the present situation.
How does being given random full items make you have to adapt. Components let you make decisions and help you adapt. Being given a full item gives you no decisions on that front.
JWaugh (NA)
: The only positive I can see coming from this change is that people might pivot to different comps early if they get a full strong item. This would diversify the comps being built in a game. I find it too common that everyone is building the same 3 comps and the champ pool is weighted unevenly. If I got a random blademaster (recurve+spach) or comp specific item I might pivot to make that comp because it would be easier. Just a thought.
But from how it's worded, you'd already be somewhat likely to do that. It's kinda vague, but how I see it is that if you get two items from a minion round: it will randomly drop it combined instead of broken apart. So if you get a Giant's Belt and a Tear but had a bf sword and nlr on the bench... Even though you probably want the components so you could make morello and shojin or zekes and ludens, it could randomly just give you redemption. It's added rng that can ONLY be negative. Because if you wanted to combine the items, you will. Now if it's just a rare chance to drop a combined item period, not "auto combined the items you got" it'd be kinda nice. Too rng heavy (this dude just got an rfc and another recurve off of wolves!? Gg rng,) but kinda nice.
: Shen's whole kit is built around dueling, dude. his splitpushing is horrendous because of the fact that he has not pushing and waveclearing potential at all outside of items. Buffing his dueling potential just helps him in laning phase and teamfights, not splitpushing where literally anyone has the time to walk the entire map before Shen even has the time to get to a tower.
Split pushing isn't to take towers. It's to threaten to take towers so someone DOES walk. You know, 4 people on one side of the map, Shen on the other. Fight breaks out, even if the enemy top laner matching has tp, shen impacts the fight sooner. If Shen isn't a threat, or could even just be ran down, then his power to split push is meaningless.
Win Zhao (NA)
: i'm not calling people losers for spending money on a cosmetic they like....I'm calling them losers if they spend $500 on it. they're getting suckered and support a system that, as you says, alienates the majority of league players. it's not even about being able to afford it, its buying into anti-consumer policies propping up in gaming industry. anyone else notice you need to buy a pass to continue to earn from events now? yeah...they're gonna continue this trend unless gamers speak up. how about you feel sorry for yourself/others somewhere else
I don't think you understand "whales." It doesn't matter how much money it costs to them, they'll buy what they want. They aren't _losers_ just because they are using their income for stuff they want. It just so happens that the thing they're buying isn't friendly towards small spenders. If anything, that makes Riot the bad apple here. But honestly, I can't blame them either. The other auto-chess games give random rewards too. The _original_ auto-chess game had random rewards. They're just following by example. But because they're by far larger, there's backlash for it.
: i mean if you played when it first came out you got one for free and these skins affect nothing game play wise so riot doesnt have to give give them out for free, thats pretty dumb to think you are entitled to cosmetics
Since it's a free to play game, I 100% agree. But we currently obtain nothing besides some emotes, the same icon 4 times, mostly recolored arenas, and a singular Little Legend. And nobody can obtain these rewards at the moment. There should be some sort of incentive to play the game without a beta pass active (be it some sort of mastery score equivalent or a weekly chest of some kind. Or even a currency for your Little Legends) It doesn't have to be Little Legends, but since these are linked very closely to how players emote in game, it'd at least be nice if the base colors for each Little Legend were unlockable for free.
Lucivus (NA)
: You're a buffoon for thinking people shouldn't be able to earn free stuff in a game, even if it is free-to-play. F2P is no excuse to put something like this behind a very specific, very anti-consumer paywall. Especially when the vast majority of your player base is undoubtedly, undeniably against it in every way. Especially when you earn more than enough money off of what you already have in the game. I remember when games didn't make you pay for ANYTHING except for DLC expansions, and the games themselves. And those were, usually, and depending on the game, well worth the wait and money spent. Now? Microtransactions fucking everywhere, and not a single game is safe from them, save for the most resolute and consumer friendly developers. And when I think of them, only ONE comes to mind. CD Projekt Red. (But that's because I'm not a games enthusiast and I don't know everything). This is egregious and uncalled for. They have a system already in place in this game that allows people to earn just about everything imaginable in the game for free. For a lot of it, especially the really cool Champion skins and stuff, you gotta grind hard and you gotta get lucky, but it's earnable nonetheless. And, even in a F2P game, that's exactly how it should be. Don't you fucking dare defend Rito from these shitty, scummy business practices. You should be ashamed of yourself. Until they implement these "Little Legends" into the REST of the loot pools with everything else, like they should've done from the get-go, I will not spend any money on this game whatsoever. You don't know what you're getting. You don't even know the PERCENTAGE/CHANCE of getting what you want, and that right there rings some bells. 750 RP for just ONE? Yeah, not even worth it. I hope many more will follow in my footsteps.
You didn't even read what the person you were responding to said. They said the original variant should be purchasable with BE, while the others should be RP. So you can get your fully decked out Moonlit Hushtail completely free... But you gotta shell out for that Eternal or Untamed Hushtail. But anyways, I agree with cuddlykitten over here. Having to buy the little legends is perfectly fine. They made a part of the game that some people actually prefer to play, or only play, when compared to actual league. If they didn't monetize it somehow, they'd essentially be putting more workload on their servers for more cost than it gives them. They're constantly patching the game, they're developing new content for it... But because the game's free, they need some way to pay those developers. And buying skins your your little in game avatar is the cutest way to do that. Now do I agree with their current scheme? You know, 490 for a singular random one of 3 different characters _and_ of their 6 variants? Hell no. If they wanted to make it random, let us pick which character so we're at least getting the _character_ we want. Even the pricing is shit. 490 mand 750 are HORRIBLE markers within the amount of rp you spend. If average joe buys $5 or 10$ they're left with 160 and 370 respectively after 1 and 2 purchases respectively. Even at $20 you're left over with 350 rp. That puts them somewhere above $4 but below $5 per egg, and you aren't even guaranteed something you want. Paying money for things you don't want is very specifically my biggest gripe about lootboxes. At least in gacha games, you're paying for things you want. Selling the extras gives you resources that help boost what you're actually looking for (think mana in Dragalia Lost, or various currency systems that let you target buy, or even something like the "ghost" shop in Crash Fever that let's you buy materials to enhance things with.) And this heavily exemplifies that.
: i understand the reference. im just saying it dosent apply here. its almost like you didnt even read what i said.
Except it does apply here. Both overpriced the content they were giving away (playable characters that affect gameplay should not be behind a paywall the way EA handled it. Maybe as DLC but that's another can of worms. And there is nothing "prestigious" about spending over $100 on a skin, and it should have been behind some sort of "battle pass" that rewarded you based on wins during a time period, likely the full year) Whether you believe skins are worth having or not is besides YOU. People want special things like this, and are outraged when they see dumb paywalls like this.
DuRay (NA)
: 1% crit rune wasnt broken as hell, literally 1/100 autos would crit, sorry if that one time you were all inned you got critted once every what 1/30 games (and thats out of the rare cases that people took that rune)? and out of how many of those did the crit actually make the dmg difference? Sorry but your arguing nonsense. Having more options isnt as fun for filthy casuals???? Excuse me but what??? what is more enjoyable than finding something extremely obscure that is totally overpowered but niche? Casuals are literally there for you to fuck around and find FUN things to do, thats why its casual. Having a simpler system that you can still customize is great but then you kill off the players that found off meta enjoyable just so that noobs can have their dmg automated for them, only so that they can build shit like int sion (thanks riot). So here we are, your just saying shit as a casual just because you would rather riot give you a cookie cutter system so you can have training wheels for the game and enjoy the surface level. Also tooltips in season 6 were clear and concise, in fact people would complain that they didnt reveal enough information and that they just told you what you needed to know.
Crit in League isn't a flat chance. Every time you auto and you don't crit, it increases the chance the next one will (as long as you have crit of course.) I forget the word for it, but its some sort of exponential rng system instead of flat rng system.
: Unless you are D1+, those champs aren't busted. You aren't LCS, you aren't playing pro matches, and those champs aren't strong in solo q. Riot already fucked up with their World's patch, too late to fix that, but fixing OP champs like Ahri, Eve, and Nami that affect 99% of the playerbase way more than the ones you listed is a good start. Just accept that you aren't pro, because Ryze is sure as hell isn't OP for the rest of us, even if he is in the 'pro' meta.
Nami ~~was~~ is strong. But not strong because of numbers, strong because of meta. She has extremely good matchups into tank supports because of her ability to poke while also sustaining the lane. Not to mention to empower an adc's poke to a possible run down by attaching her e to an already flying auto. She even has a good matchup into Morgana, who is also relatively strong for similar reasons. And tank supports are SO good right now, Alistar literally has a 90% p/b rate in pro play with a 60% wr. I'm not saying the nerf wasn't warranted, but if we're going to nerf champions like Nami, we should nerf champions like Urgot/Irelia/Akali/Kassadin/Kaisa as well.
: urgot has no mobility whatsoever, he has to buy an item to get ANY. spellbook gives him freedom with his summoners which he shouldn't have, it's the only reason he's strong currently. go back to before when urgot had comet and you'll notice how huge of a difference it makes urgot blows the fuck up if he doesn't have the access to the bonuses insp and spellbook gives, he's such an easily kitable champion without it that it's laughable if they were to touch his knee damage, cd, q detonation time, or ult cd they'd completely fucking gut him back to his release where he did NOTHING his ult execute is already cleansable with qss too
I don't think you've gotten your speed chunked by an Urgot q yet. He doesn't need mobility, the moment he lands a q he can dash in and chunk your hp with w knee procs. He flat out wins that trade on most top laners, and even most mid laners. So if he does that another time before you back, you are likely dead.
: Spellbook has historically been abused by champions that already have everything they need built into their kit, enough to rival champions running direct power increasing keystones. The fact that Urgot is able to not only hold his own, but acquire solo kills without such a keystone is evidence to this. Thus why he abuses spell book.
Abused yes, but the rune isn't over powered. It's only really useful on, as you said "champions that already have everything they need built into their kit," and fails to make anything other than that powerful. For Urgot to fall out of favor, he needs his innate tankiness to go down and see from there. He has trouble getting early kills, and so hitting his damage would be over kill, but it might be possible that it's also needed.
: I feel like in Gold although kai'sa is picked every game, she isn't a problem to deal with. I haven't lost to a kai'sa in awhile. Leblanc is pretty strong but I don't know if she needs nerfed, urgot is strong in the top lane but I feel Sion was definitely stronger, and Irelia is a disgusting champ but I think you need high skills to play her so I never see her in Gold play.
Urgot has a 100% p/b rate in worlds right now that's how strong he is. I'll admit Kaisa isn't as strong, but she's still a 75+% p/b along with Akali. I'll note, Aatrox also has a 100% p/b, but that's because Urgot has it, and is currently one of the few matchups that can be picked into Urgot without it being an automatic loss. Alistar also sees a 90% p/b, but he's also strong compared to other supports right now due to repeated nerfs to enchantresses and favor-ability to tank supports right now.
: But did Pyke really need a buff? lol{{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
He truly does have problems in the early game, his q is unreliable as a pick tool (wind up on top of Nid spear levels travel speed makes it somewhat easy to dodge,) so he has to use his mobility for picks most of the time. But I think buffing the ult is the wrong way to go about that. I'd honestly rather the spear get a slight size buff or travel speed increase. Nothing major, but anything besides the ult imo.
Justicé (NA)
: How to bring back standard Summoner spells: -> Buff Exhaust. (Bring back AS reduction.) -> A buff on top of it's low CD may bring it back to bottom lane meta (Less ignite/cleanse supports) -> With a stronger exhaust back in meta, low cooldown summoner spells that protect adcs (exh, heal) are more useful than high cd summoners that give farm. (TP) -> TP then becomes uniquely useful for Top/Mid. (Still inferior to ignite) -> Buff TP to bring it back to top lane. (360 - 300s)
Yeah, the nerf to tp was an oversight on the dev team. The reason adcs started taking tp was due to lane priority being important, which is also another reason why supports are taking ignite. There isn't a reason to take defensive spells because you give up lane priority to the offensive ones (ignites debuff making heal less applicable, exhaust getting multiple nerfs. There literally WASN'T a reason to take anything other than tp/ignite because the other options were just worse.)
: I honestly did not even notice the Heal nerf/buff. Still necessary as an ADC, how are u supposed to make tp work when ur lucian and alistar vs soraka and draven...
gamertag123, well... If you have tp advantage (tp to their heal) you get to bully them out of lane through all ins using ignite to mitigate heals, then come back to lane faster to keep on the pressure. In a tp to tp, you get to play a safe lane, with heavy farm and possible all in potential. AND if you're losing/no jungle pressure, you out sustain them due to the ability to back and tp into lane. There was a LOT of ways to use tp as an adc that was better than heal when tp was good.
: Changing the entire game based on pro play is not okay, this is what i mean when i say rito only cares about worlds and lcs. also they show very clear favoritism towards assassins, what with true damage this, and true damage that, how are we supposed to tank when anyone can negate 20% of our armor flat? and thats BEFORE actual armor pen items, throw in full lethality, black cleaver, and LDR and you have like 80% armor pen. fuck this assassin burst meta.
While I agree too much reliance on pro play for balancing can lead to problems, there shouldn't be a reason to balance off of a casual audience either. It's like trying to write Shakespeare so that someone who can't read can read it instead of fixing real grammatical errors: Not only do those errors stay, but you're capitalizing the original work for an audience who can't fully appreciate it anyways. Not saying League isn't for "casual" players, but there isn't a reason to make changes for a casual audience if it makes the game worse at a competitive level (this is more aimed at Azir, Taliyah, etc. These characters BREAK competitive play if they're strong because of their play style. Nerfing dominant champions that don't see play outside of low elo is, in most cases, fine, since it's not affecting high elo anyways.) So when you want to "leave" a character, like Tahm, who generally instigates an unhealthy play style of "never let the adc die." You tell me whether or not it makes the game worse, I'm sure adcs feel the difference when they mis-position and Tahm can't eat them every 6 seconds.
: pyke has around a 43-47% winrate lol. if anything he needs buffs.
WR =/= How good they are. Pyke is extremely slippery, making it much harder to punish them. And so when they snowball a lane/game, they only become better as a support and are given better ways of closing a fight with their ult. Which means the team gains more and more gold, snowballing it further. So the course of action imo: Do nothing. He's an assassin who requires a team to assassinate, and is extremely easy to punish so they can't make plays early. He's in about the right spot, so if ANY changes were made it'd have to be to his lane sustain and maybe to how long he can stay in his w.
: Riot doesn't care about mid Fiddlesticks. They nerfed him for it the last time it was viable; him getting hit as an add-on to the support Fiddlesticks nerf is unlikely to mean anything to him. Hell, they've flat-out given up caring about him as a jungler, even.
I think a big reason for this is because AP junglers are WAY healthier than AD junglers normally are (Nidalee, Elise, Gragas, Diana, Fiddle have innate sustain/damage reduction.) This leads to AD junglers needing to be healthier on clears to compete with them, leading to more ganks. But they're trying to reduce vision, which means more ganks could easily make games feel less fun for laners of the "losing" junglers side... Not that it isn't already horrible to lose because "better jg wins."
Somnum (NA)
: Have you considered fixing the auto attack bug currently in the game with every single auto attack reset ability? (Titanic included) You'll stand completely still until the ability runs out or your auto attack cycle reaches the next time you could auto attack (Generally happens on champions with low attack speed, Darius, Yorick, Chogath etc. etc.)
That's because you're forced through those animations. You don't Darius e -> Titanic. You Auto -> Titanic -> Darius e.
Pariswho (NA)
: I don’t understand why Irelia, who is really weak rn continues to get fucking gutted. While Zoe one of the worst champs riot has made doesn’t even get nerfs this patch. The favoritism is untucking real
1. Irelia is getting her "power shifted from her abilities to her basic attacks." 2. 99% sure the stance they have on Zoe is that she takes too much coordination to deserve nerfs right now. She's also outclassed by champions like Talon who do what she does (safely burst a player down,) but have ACTUAL wave clear and take _less_ skill. Zoe is definitely powerful, but it's not to her own faults but rather the power creep of League's "burst" champions needing to burst more and more, otherwise they fall out of relevancy due to the sheer safety every champion has (cc, resolve tree, stop watch, etc.)
Noies (NA)
: Why I don't agree with the zeal of Mr.Brahgo in regards to this change (indeed this change seems fine), I do disagree that supports are not having a hard time. I have mained support since season 6. I loved the role. During patch 8.13 I became a midlaner. Perhaps from a 'strength of role' / impact stand point support is fine, however the role is very different from what it used to be which is upsetting for all the people who loved playing the lane how it was before. The recent changes to the bot lane are probably fine for the health of the game. But I fear that I and many other players who spent hours upon hours of time playing, practicing, and perfecting a role they adored, no longer wish to play what the bot lane has become.
I'm honestly playing the same type of things I used to, but in different ways. Maybe Soraka and Sona would have a bit harder of a time fitting in such an environment... But Lulu, Nami, Rakan, Thresh, Braum ALL filled a role when "adcs" left them. Nami was still a lane bully that kept herself and her carry healthy, at the cost of high mana costs. Rakan and Thresh are still heavy pick oriented "playmakers." And tanks like Braum are... Tanks like Braum. They soak up damage and peel for their carries. <- key word, multiple carries now that you don't need *just* one to push you into a winning state.
: this is going to hurt.... and slow laning phase.
No... Not really. The problem with supports bot lane was we could easily force an ADC out of the one pot they get, while being at essentially no detriment if we get poked. We still get to do that, but we actually get to be punished for overstepping in our harassment. Plus this means getting the 2nd tier support item first back will overall be easier, even if behind. It doesn't slow down the lane, but it does change the dynamic to punish bad support players.
: The thing about it is that tanks kinda fit the same style of of the other top laners at the time, as well as thoe duelists were still playable. The thing that screwed over every Marksman was how they got rid of the other things in bot lane for almost 7 years, so the pros were trained to ONLY play Marksman. The pros(and many others) thought that because how riot didn't allow these things for 7 years, it would get patched out in 1 or 2 patches. Now with how it looks, it may be running through WORLDS. With Mages and Bruisers running around in bot lane, marksman ARE just useless! So how your asking marksman 1 tricks(almost) to play mages and bruisers, champs they are never use to playing, and they can't just play old ADCs because they will get destroyed in lane. Don't use Doublelift as an example of how marksman ares till viable, NA just sucks(sadly ]:).
SKT T1 is even having trouble fitting in this meta. They're in turmoil trying to figure out how to make lanes work (even switching roles around.) And yeah, when other roles changed the dynamic of the lane... It kept inside of the lane. Jungle is never going to see a meta where true supports are the ONLY viable thing (at least, in a way that wasn't planned like the crit changes.) Top has never been "stable" but it has also kept mostly tanks/bruisers/duelists in the lane the entire time. And when new roles did enter their lane, they were mostly counter picks and not the full viability. Mid keeps assassins/mages with the rare case of a support being played as a mage (hi Lulu.) Support has always kept low income utility mages/tanks as the main focus. ADC is the ONLY role where an entire class change occurred that made it so they were completely replaced, technically twice (Try playing a crit adc against these mages/bruisers. I can guarantee you it's never going to get to a point where you feel strong.)
TTDglenn (NA)
: This is so true its not even funny. The bruiser items were such good ideas and they disappeared. makes me not wanna play until they are an in game option.
They didn't release them when they saw the state of bot lane that patch. ADCs are the theoretical "counter" to bruisers, but they got a pretty big decrease in play that patch... Being replaced by bruisers and mages. This was way smarter to do, than seal the fate of ADC. Thankfully some ADCs are shining a little brighter once builds were figured out (MF, Draven, Ashe being big examples of this case.) But the state of the game was NOT able to hold those items when ADC wasn't in a position to balance out those items.
: The nerf was completely unnecessary. Apparently you haven't played as a Vlad against a good Darius or mundo that rushes onto your face and destroys you with true damage when they have full tank items. Vlad was perfectly fine where he was this nerf was way out of line, especially to the extent that it was done.
Except again, the keyword was counter play. Vlad has the safest team fight _and_ laning phase. If you as a vlad player somehow die in a team fight, your team is losing too hard and you didn't do anything. The nerf at least makes it so one shotting squishies isn't a _given_ for passing the IQ test of "press w when they dive you, press ew to dive them." And yes, it _wasn't_ vlad "becoming" powerful. It was the gutting of crit adcs that put him bot lane. But that framed his problems because people realized how powerful he gets without a single input from the enemy given (ganking Vlad is quite hard if they pass the IQ test.) The thing was that "Vlad bot" became more popular than "Vlad other lanes" and it was _devastatingly_ strong. He was a rather easy to pick character as he doesn't have bad matchups in the bot lane... Other than maybe Morde/Swain. And I can't stress enough that it _wasn't_ Vlad, it was that Vlad was oppressive in the bot lane without strong ways to get him out of lane. They probably _should_ revert these nerfs once they fix bot lane. But until then, he was WAY too good there.
: I'd kinda rather have them fix bot lane than throw Vlad in the gutter. He's been fine for about a year, but this weird meta has brought some weird playstyles. He doesn't actually have that high of a winrate.
Vlad has a near 12% pick rate. OFCOURSE his winrate is going to be lower than 50%. He'd need a WAY bigger nerf if that were the case. Though, I kinda agree: It really wasn't vlad, it was the gutting of crit adc. But it also doesn't mean he didn't need a nerf (Have you SEEN the damage output? It's insane how your health bar can go from 100 to 0 with little to no counterplay. Not to mention his lane is safer than actual adcs anyways.)
Terozu (NA)
: Actually, the Marksmen Meta started early 2016, with their class update, followed by the class updates to all other classes, particularly Assassins, and major buffs to enchanters. At this point Marksmen were the strongest damage dealers, and supports made it nigh impossible to take them out. Come 2017, before worlds, just over a year later, they finally nerfed supports, and then they buffed adcs again in compensation. Adcs, now even further ahead were again extremely powerful. Now here comes 2018, a little over 2 years since their initial buffs that put them at the top, and they are finally hard nerfed, as nearly everyone pros included were begging rito to do. And less than two months later, adc mains are complaining that theres always hate on adcs and they need buffs. Two years of domomatiom, you gotta wait more tham two months to be back on top. And fyi, they are still playable! The biggest shift was to caster types rather than blaster types!
Coming from a support main: Bot lane is in chaos with the "removal" of crit adcs. The closest thing we get to crit is Ashe/Xayah, who aren't played for their scaling damage but their utility. Lucian/Ez/Kaisa lanes are nice and all, but they are the ONLY good adcs rn. Not an exaggeration. This is reminiscent of Ziggs/Vlad bot lanes of mid Season 7 (or was it 6? It was after the mage update, but not before a major class update iirc) when crit adcs were nerfed heavily. Again, Adcs aren't complaining that they aren't OP, they're complaining they can't play the game without picking up a completely different kind of champion (mostly fighters and mages, with a the closest thing to before being _3_ adcs in total.)
NTorn (NA)
: Dude, then don't play. You are in the vast minority of players. We all love URF, and as a casual player, I never noticed one champ except maybe fizz that was just unstoppable, but that made it fun. All part of the game. Everyone was OP, and everyone could kill everyone, not our problem you were unable to dodge skill shots.
Acting like it's "my incompetence" is what makes me hate the game mode is rather disheartening (especially since you didn't check skill rating? You essentially just told someone 3 whole divisions above you, "you hate it cause you suck.") Why would you default to skill, when I dislike a _casual_ game mode for being heavily unbalanced because some characters abused the rule changes much better than others? If I'm playing it to do well, I'm playing the wrong game mode. The reason I dislike the balance is NOT because it feels unfair, but because it creates the SAME game over and over again that's how unbalanced it was. And that if you strayed away from that "same" game, it became much less enjoyable because of the difference in strength. Idk, maybe I'm missing the point of feeling forced to play Ezreal/Ahri/Bard every game. I even _like_ playing Ahri/Bard, but I can't find enjoyment doing that against the same 5 or so champions in the regular URF. It isn't the game mode, it's the fact that the imbalance of the mode makes it extremely clear when you're not playing a "top tier" compared to the regular game.
: URF IS SUPPOSED TO BE BROKEN, thats what made it so fun back in the first urf.
I think my point either seems moot, or people are missing it. But I'm going to place one last statement on the subject: I mean as in the tiering is so distinct, games can be ruined JUST because you were playing a worse champion. People are scrutinizing my statement with another statement I already mentioned: I know URF is supposed to be Op champions. But some are so much more op than others, MOST games feel the same. I already said this. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I think the mediocre backlash I got shows it's not as black and white. I'm definitely wrong in that ARUrf is the most elegant solution rn, but URF is definitely not the best either. URF is something I would play if the middleground between AR and OG is met. But until then, the unfair nature of ARUrf and the imbalance of OG make me less willing to play it.
: When did I complain about "being ready?" Lol, you're just making things up and arguing with them, then insulting me and insinuating somehow that makes me immature. Like everyone else who has replied here, you've just babbled nonsensically and looked for opportunities to flame, the only reason you're actually replying. I'm not sure how you make it through the day with a brain that functions as poorly as yours does, but hey, good on you for making it work.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Ender,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=xNworcHu,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2018-05-28T18:03:39.376+0000) > > My 4 Clash teammates and I didn&#x27;t bother setting up a team because you (Riot) gave us an announcement that it wasn&#x27;t happening. So now, we also don&#x27;t get this orb for the arbitrary reason of we didn&#x27;t do something that was already clearly pointless? I'm not trying to be toxic, I'm trying to tell you you're in the wrong. You're upset about not getting the orb, and that's because of something you were supposed to have done anyways. It isn't Riots job to accommodate you because you decided not to sign up until the very, VERY last second. That's why I called you immature, because you're complaining about a problem you pushed onto yourself.
: I for one think Riot owes us nothing. This game is free, and they are super dedicated to keeping this game patched every 2 weeks. I play a game called Escape from Tarkov, its a actual indy game company, and they do not put in 10% of the work riot does for a FREE game. Stop crying. You guys cried cause you did not get a reason they give you that, and you cry because you did not prepare, and have a team ready. I mean what can they do to make you happy? Give out 10 free skins? lol its laughable you guys expect free shit for something that was stopped to make sure it did not fail while you were playing. I am sure you guys would have lost your shit over that. I guess maybe I have had real loss in my life so stuff like this is nothing to me. Get some real problems, and cry over those not a game.
You're right. We don't deserve free things for them messing up. It is up to the company to do what they want. But that doesn't mean they aren't obliged to think about compensation. So many other game companies, ESPECIALLY free to play ones, give out compensations when they mess up in a way that harms the player base. So when compensation becomes the "norm," you have to think of doing it too otherwise it hurts your image. And when you're as big as a company like Riot is... Image matters.
: It's funny how you're also mocking having the team set up while trying to justify whatever position it is you're trying to defend. Honestly, it just seems like you're an idiot trying to flame because you didn't have to be in school today. Either that or you're some kind of Riot shill, it's hard to tell when someone rambles as pointlessly and nonsensically as you have here.
Except you're complaining about "being ready" but not doing anything about that prior to the tournament. And the moment people were compensated for having their time wasted (when you sign up for an event, you want to be a part of the event,) you cry because your team didn't set up the actual team. You're complaining about something that is 100% on you and your team for not being preemptive with your sign up. They're mocking you for for being immature about it, not the team/game itself.
: ARURF is bullshit, at least i could play what i want against the op combos, now im still against the same 10 champions almost every game and forced to play a champion i don't want also. Rather suffer through OP champions with a champion i wanted to play than suffer them while also being forced into something else.
tbh, I heavily doubt there's "ARURF" only accounts in mass. So the "same 10 champions" is so much of an over exaggeration you're probably just feeling the "ARAM" problems of: sometimes you just get worse champions, or sometimes your team doesn't do too hot, making a large disparity in strength. I haven't played ARURF in a long time, again not a fan of either. But from what I played: You just don't win unless you win. There are never going to be games where you have a "close" match, and so stomps feel horrible, unless you're the one doing the stomping. And so throughout your games, you can just lose based on so many things that starting up a game can go wrong before you even knew it'd go wrong. Which imo, is better than losing to a mostly mirror match. Since at least you didn't lose because you weren't good enough, though it's still an option.
: boohoo now you want riot to make a unique clash for you? dude do you realize half of the global population with jobs have weekends off. if they didn't they wouldn't be known as the "break" the majority of people dont work weekends. i work weekends most of the time and i wouldn't sit here and make it a big deal because i so happen i cant play. not everyone is going to be fed the content. you go with the majority. do you not know how supply and demand works?
Man, I'm so glad _timezones_ aren't a thing in your world. I'd ask when I can move there, but I don't think I'd want to be on a global timezone. I might mess up my schedule too hard trying to adjust to the "new" night. It's not out of the stretch of reality to ask "Can you have multiple Clash's play throughout the day? That way people who live in X timezone and X job shift can join in on the fun." Don't make fun of someone just because they're asking for the ability to play a certain part of a game. There are "special" prizes on the line for this type of stuff, meaning if you can't join because of time constraints you literally can't get those prizes. Which would be fine for something that has money prizes on the line, but this is essentially a special ranked queue that you have to get 4 other people together for. It's also something they've been hyping for a while, which means they WANT people to play it, so anything to get more people playing would be important.
: They stopped RGMs because of how hard it was on their balance team to consistently be balancing the rotating modes every single patch. They said it in a post.
Hmm... Weird, could have swore I heard popularity as one of the reasons too.
YuGiHo (NA)
: So they can just flip a switch and give us game modes???? so why haven't we been getting any???
They said they stopped doing RGM cause there wasn't as much appeal in it compared to when they put it up for events. Even if they put up "popular" game modes, there was a noticeable difference in how many people were playing it.
Stexe (NA)
: Is there a reason why it was ARURF instead of just normal URF?
I know a lot of people hate Riot's reasoning for not bringing back URF, but I'm going to add one more thing: URF is just imbalanced af. You have so many champions that just do WAY better at spamming their abilities: {{champion:103}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:81}} old {{champion:28}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:45}} being a few examples. This just isn't fun to deal with, and there isn't really a fair way to deal with them since it defeats the purpose of the game mode to ban "op" champions that are op because the game mode is meant to make everyone op. So you would see the few bans from the original mode (Kassadin, Sona and Ryze) and everything else was fair game so you'd literally see mirror matches of Hecarim/Eve/Fizz/2 Others. ie: Every game was basically the same. Not that I like ARURF... Though I definitely like it more than regular URF because you see more interesting things getting played/actually succeeding. You also see way more... Not succeeding (Elise/Darius/etc) which is a problem with all random. But ARAM has these problems too, which is normally fixed with trades/rerolls. All in all, URF isn't as healthy overall, and there is no elegant solution besides ARURF.
: Well, I've been playing since the Beta, and I find it impossible to master all of the new information within the 2 weeks between patches to understand exactly how every situation will play out in ranked. that nearly a decade worth of experience is borderline useless with each coming patch. I prefer games that can be mastered over time as opposed to ones that focus on chasing exploits.
Then I feel like mentioning you're looking at patches incorrectly. You should be using your base knowledge of League of Legends (how to ward, apply map pressure, not get ganked, obtain objectives, etc) and apply that to what the patch is (Emphasis on Scuttle makes early game junglers more relevant, and therefore you should try to help apply lane pressure by shoving and get your jungler the scuttle.) The game feels as similar to it has 10 patches ago, as it has 1 patch ago, but with alterations to what is good and what isn't. For the most part; Duelist/fighters, lane presence heavy junglers, wave clear mids, "good" adcs, and tank/peel supports have all been meta. More recently, it's been leaning towards the peel/mage supports due to how visibly better spellthiefs is compared to the others, but the game itself still has a very similar dynamic to how it was 8 patches ago.
: "keeping it from getting stale" with ~140 champs and countless possible strategies? NO, just no. they're keeping it from getting balanced and that's what's making it stale. even now for most roles the meta is heavily constrained at top level and even for lower levels you have to work 2x as hard or be 2x as good to make a non-meta pick work out as well. let's say someone goes Trundle JG... easy effective, good scaling, good from behind, you go Ekko or Diana or some other shit like Fiddlesticks and Wukong. You're useless by comparison unless you pop off hard. They're useful all game and in all situations. if this game were truly balanced, it would be so much richer, more expressive, more interesting and more fun than any of the changes they can make to shake things up. and the meta would still change anyway but it would do so organically not because 4 more patches happened and now they want to make all your theorycrafted effort and builds useless again.. now yet again you have to find what you enjoy/if anything etc. it's like if someone took your girlfriend every few months and then gave you a random new girl with the same name. I don't mind the changes if they lead somewhere but I expect them to actually "finish" this game at some point and have balance after that. this game's most successful seasons and its height of popularity I think was probably S4 and they changed it far less during those times. it also felt like you were less dependent on the meta to carry and win. now even in mid MMR I have to go fairly meta picks or undiscovered but strong picks or I can't carry. and in general, being so team dependent creates a cancerous environment. no shit people rage when they feel that that they're so dependent on others for their own performance. give people the tools to hard carry any game if good enough and no one would bother berating their team. they'd realize that it's all up to them so it's just a waste of energy. now, you really need your team and even the best jg picks are team reliant. it's horrible and feels unfair but maybe it's because I wanted league to be a skill game more than a team game.
One: Your comment seems pointless. You complain about them changing the game too often, but rather the changes happen when the do something. Two: the height of League's Popularity is right now. It may not seem like it, but there are definitely more people playing than ever as accounted to queue times, even at times where it used to be slow. Three: While yes, the game is reliant on the team more than ever now... Individual skill shines even more because of that. ADC and Top were never skill roles to begin with, but Support/Mid/JG all have the highest chance at carrying a game this season because they decide how a game flows. I would say I'd wish for something similar to the old days of League, but the game has just been getting better since release. It even is the most accessible esport without compromising pro-play. What they've been doing balance wise, has been working.
: "these are the only support items that actually have any impact still so its really important that we gut them"
Except supports still have HUGE impact because of the items that even got nerfed. Locket is busted af rn, and they made sure it wasn't useless with the buff to %hp at early levels. It's not like they are trying to gut support, they're just making sure it isn't a role that ends games by itself. 'Cause even the other 4 monkeys on your team can put 2 and 2 together when you make them tankier than the tanks across from them.
: The fact that U.R.F was made as an april fools joke and won't be appearing this april fools, is quite depressing {{champion:32}}
Not really tbh. URF started as a joke, but then it caught on and the community got Riot to put it in the rotating game mode. So now it's not really special. It's like saying "I have steak every April 1st, but I also happen to eat it whenever I want too." <- no point in it. Whereas Riot is celebrating getting One for All to work in the new client by placing it as the April Fool's day game mode.
: Your Shop Returns
Good on you DiscountBot. You not only realized I was a support main, but picked supports I am currently playing... But where did Tristana come from? Eh, 5/6 is still pretty good. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
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