: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ZvsLLMEM,comment-id=002a0000,timestamp=2019-12-06T19:16:38.059+0000) > > 10 Fury per dragon when she transforms into human. That would literally be like 10% CDR. man just hop on the boat with the rest of us that don't get anything from cloud Dragon. Elise, Jayce, Nidalee, Shyvanna, Quinn, and Udyr got the shaft on those dragon changes. I personally think the soul and dragon bonus for storm should be changed all together. regular CDR that does not stack on top of other cdr from items and a smaller movespeed buff gained by attacking or casting any ability sounds more reasonable and more inclusive. giving 10% ability cdr would allow you to itemize more for stats you want without having to worry about cdr as much so you could skip a cdr item for a similar item that provides similar or better effects. I think a movespeed buff like the old boot enchantment Furor would be more reasonable than the current nimbus cloak effect we get now and it would be all inclusive where as current cloud ignores non-ult champs
Don't think for a moment that I do not think it is not unfair, but all those except Quinn, do actually benefit, is it fair and noticeable no, but they do get 10-40% from their lock out. Udyr should have it applied to all his abilities. Shyvana though is supposed to be the dragon taking queen, yet literally does not use the dragon and her movement speed is applied once she ults rather than when she lands making it more lack luster. The only thing I can think of for the rest is. Quinn: Increase MVSPD by 5-10% per drake. I was thinking reducing her mana, but it eventually drops to 0 so Quinn is the one champion beside Shyvana that needs a unique effect outside of CD. Elise etc reduce lock out by a .5 seconds Udyr Apply to all, (That's 2.4+ any CDR That's actually good)
: Can Shyvana get some benefit from cloud drake? Your dragonslaying paradigm champion gains absolutely no benefit from one of the four drakes that can spawn, feels very bad and counter to her fantasy. Cloud maps are super depressing.
10 Fury per dragon when she transforms into human. That would literally be like 10% CDR.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 6
I know I'm late to the party, but I'd hoped I could inject some things. Can Shyvana gain 10 fury from cloud per cloud? This is the same as 10% CDR and would not make her the only champion that gains nothing from Dragon, since champions like Nid/Jaycee are still affect though very slightly. Also can she gain fury while dead? Akalis Shroud follows into Mordes shadow realm, I believe this was not the intent. Could alcoves be used for anything else? A spot to get a free ward or health relic?
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=00000002000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-26T20:02:36.256+0000) > > Gonna have to help me figure out which one you are talking about and what specifically. (I am not an expert in the cheap sex toys field.) > > The headless model is.. well... headless, so I kinda see it there, but The Dragon head is supposed to look more like a Star and the Human crown that has a galaxy within it. https://i.imgur.com/liXwBgS.jpg[/img] Uh. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=Bropocolypse,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=000000020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-26T22:49:32.530+0000) > > https://i.imgur.com/liXwBgS.jpg[/img] > Uh. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} Again that is a headless Shyvana. Her head is above that so you can see the neck and the stones that guide her neck. I simply cut her head off so it's a nub. She should be on all fours as well.
: > [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-11-26T18:16:29.799+0000) > > Relationship goals "ASol, get back in the kitchen"
> [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-26T20:00:21.025+0000) > > "ASol, get back in the kitchen" I wanted to put that line on the VO so bad, lol. Overall despite it being to a man and usually sexism doesn't matter when it is, I retracted it to make sure I didn't offend people.
Neamean (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-26T17:57:16.301+0000) > > Because DS consume stars and Asol makes them? > > So rather; why is DS Shyvana not a thing where she is the Ying to Asols Yang? He makes Stars she eats them. If we doing a yin to his yang can we make darkstar anivia instead.
> [{quoted}](name=Neamean,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-11-26T21:08:35.068+0000) > > If we doing a yin to his yang can we make darkstar anivia instead. But, but... Anivia is not even a dragon. :( They would both be Star Dragons.
BlackXIV (EUW)
: Then I'd still rush Tiamat.
That's fair, was just trying to avoid the HP regen, active and expense. Certain Champions like Warrior, but don't need it's AOE, like {{champion:141}} {{champion:120}}. Those champions shouldn't need to take a hit in order to get that passive they don't really want or need. It's possible to add that with reducing the AD instead and keeping the CDR then nothing changes build wise and you lose a few AD for a lot of clearing power.
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mgyr08pI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-26T20:09:30.837+0000) > > Or just a random thought, remove the CDR only and make a Tiamat passive that is only effective on minions and monsters. If it builds out of Tiamat why would the passive downgrade when you upgrade it?
I was not saying to use Tiamat, rather like a pick axe/long swords then combine. That way you don't have to slap on base regen and the active component, junglers power don't change PVP they just clear better. TIamat is also expensive, and delays the jungle item a bit and is much less smoother than 1100 gold for caulfields.
BlackXIV (EUW)
: Warrior Enchantment: should it have a passive like other jungle items?
Or just a random thought, remove the CDR only and make a Tiamat passive that is only effective on minions and monsters.
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-11-26T19:20:34.420+0000) > > Well that's the idea I had for Shyvana, haven't really worked on it since, but... [if interested here's the link ](https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/coreuw/ultimate_skin_idea_dark_star_shyvana_incomplete/) > > This skin is much more detailed in my head and they'd get a lot of lines together. I really haven't spent a lot of time getting it pretty, but I need to. Why does her head in dragon form look like ... a cheap silicon sex toy?
> [{quoted}](name=Bropocolypse,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=0000000200000001,timestamp=2019-11-26T19:58:30.197+0000) > > Why does her head in dragon form look like ... a cheap silicon sex toy? Gonna have to help me figure out which one you are talking about and what specifically. (I am not an expert in the cheap sex toys field.) The headless model is.. well... headless, so I kinda see it there, but The Dragon head is supposed to look more like a Star and the Human crown that has a galaxy within it.
ßlameMyADC (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-11-26T19:20:34.420+0000) > > Well that's the idea I had for Shyvana, haven't really worked on it since, but... [if interested here's the link ](https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/coreuw/ultimate_skin_idea_dark_star_shyvana_incomplete/) > > This skin is much more detailed in my head and they'd get a lot of lines together. I really haven't spent a lot of time getting it pretty, but I need to. That looks really interesting. I can imagine a dual release, both Dark Star {{champion:102}} and Dark Star {{champion:136}} could be a dope thing.
> [{quoted}](name=ßlameMyADC,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-26T19:26:59.925+0000) > > That looks really interesting. I can imagine a dual release, both Dark Star {{champion:102}} and Dark Star {{champion:136}} could be a dope thing. Yeah, they would be like the bosses of the universe, it would make sense since, a cosmic/dark star human, would still be "weaker" if you will than a cosmic/DS Dragon. I love this concept I wish I could see if Riot would actually entertain something like this.
ßlameMyADC (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-26T17:57:16.301+0000) > > Because DS consume stars and Asol makes them? > > So rather why is DS Shyvana not a thing where she is the Ying to Asols Yang? He makes them she eats them. AS LONG AS WE ARE TALKING DRAGONS, WE COOL MAN
> [{quoted}](name=ßlameMyADC,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-26T18:01:22.127+0000) > > AS LONG AS WE ARE TALKING DRAGONS, WE COOL MAN I'm down.
The E77 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-26T17:57:16.301+0000) > > Because DS consume stars and Asol makes them? > > So rather why is DS Shyvana not a thing where she is the Ying to Asols Yang? He makes them she eats them. i think it'd be a pretty cool skin idea of dark star Asol, not only would it look awesome, imagine 3 black holes orbiting him, but it'd also be cool coz they could either make him a corrupted, kinda like jhin, who was a cosmic but got corrupted to dark star, or could be like an Anti-Asol, the leader of the dark stars and (in the dark star time line) be the original dark star
> [{quoted}](name=The E77,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Q7VMbKNk,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-11-26T18:48:52.298+0000) > > i think it'd be a pretty cool skin idea of dark star Asol, not only would it look awesome, imagine 3 black holes orbiting him, but it'd also be cool coz they could either make him a corrupted, kinda like jhin, who was a cosmic but got corrupted to dark star, or could be like an Anti-Asol, the leader of the dark stars and (in the dark star time line) be the original dark star Well that's the idea I had for Shyvana, haven't really worked on it since, but... [if interested here's the link ](https://www.reddit.com/r/shyvanamains/comments/coreuw/ultimate_skin_idea_dark_star_shyvana_incomplete/) This skin is much more detailed in my head and they'd get a lot of lines together. I really haven't spent a lot of time getting it pretty, but I need to.
ßlameMyADC (EUNE)
: [MUST SEE] MOST ILLOGICAL THING IN THE HISTORY OF THINGS MAYBE EVER
Because DS consume stars and Asol makes them? So rather; why is DS Shyvana not a thing where she is the Ying to Asols Yang? He makes Stars she eats them.
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEJ3Xbzh,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-11-25T22:18:36.027+0000) > > It was less about their current plans and more about they are all a part of the 1000 day club. > > Anyone from the club would suffice. > {{champion:72}} 1674 {{champion:14}} 1321 {{champion:80}} 1174 > {{champion:101}} 1674 {{champion:203}} 1279 {{champion:57}} 1112 > {{champion:26}} 1660 {{champion:102}} 1279 {{champion:111}} 1110 > {{champion:82}} 1650 {{champion:106}} 1272 {{champion:48}} 1110 > {{champion:421}} 1614 {{champion:44}} 1230 {{champion:432}} 1103 > {{champion:161}} 1334 {{champion:429}} 1195 {{champion:30}} 1103 > > > {{champion:268}} 1040 > {{champion:133}} 1026 They just gave zilean a skin That's one from the club, that's my point dude....not sure why you quoted me. And they're likely to give Voli and Fiddle new skins on release of their reworks in 2020. And even if they don't, all their skins will feel newish due to the reworks. Everyone gets it, there are champs who need skins, my point is Zilean just got one - that's one off the list and I'm happy about that.
> They > just > gave > zilean > a > skin > >.... one off the list and I'm happy about that. Okay, and I made it just before that was announced, and also he could still lose that skin (highly unlikely) Until it is released he is still a member of the 1000 day club, he is just packing his bags, and everyone is getting his party ready lol. Morde is still there after his rework, since ... ya know no skin... Like do you really want me to edit it? I'm happy for anyone that get's out. I really don't see your point in clarifying that, yes we know he is getting a skin, but it's a joke, and Zilean is still there, I mean Udyr is likely going back in 950 days lol.
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEJ3Xbzh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-25T14:41:15.018+0000) > > Soon > {{champion:101}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:102}} One of us. > {{champion:38}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:203}} One of us. > {{champion:26}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:106}} One of us. Zilean just got one. And Voli might get one with his rework, but even if he doesn't all his skins will be like newish thanks to the rework. I still want a new Xerath, Kindred, Zyra, and Shyv skin tho!!!! Q.Q > [{quoted}](name=OtakuBurrito,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEJ3Xbzh,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T15:01:47.494+0000) > > Personally I LOVE Zyra but IK how Riot sees her... > > {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}} They better respect her!!!!!!!!!!! Q.Q Seriously though, I thought she was popular enough to get more skins! =(
> [{quoted}](name=xox BaByDoLL xox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEJ3Xbzh,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-11-25T21:52:50.498+0000) > > Zilean just got one. > And Voli might get one with his rework, but even if he doesn't all his skins will be like newish thanks to the rework. > > I still want a new Xerath, Kindred, Zyra, and Shyv skin tho!!!! Q.Q > > They better respect her!!!!!!!!!!! Q.Q > > Seriously though, I thought she was popular enough to get more skins! =( It was less about their current plans and more about they are all a part of the 1000 day club. Anyone from the club would suffice. {{champion:72}} 1674 {{champion:14}} 1321 {{champion:80}} 1174 {{champion:101}} 1674 {{champion:203}} 1279 {{champion:57}} 1112 {{champion:26}} 1660 {{champion:102}} 1279 {{champion:111}} 1110 {{champion:82}} 1650 {{champion:106}} 1272 {{champion:48}} 1110 {{champion:421}} 1614 {{champion:44}} 1230 {{champion:432}} 1103 {{champion:161}} 1334 {{champion:429}} 1195 {{champion:30}} 1103 {{champion:268}} 1040 {{champion:133}} 1026
Cerenox (EUW)
: Cloud drake and shapeshifting champions
I feel like Shyvana Should be simple. 10 Fury, it's the exact same as 10% cdr. {{champion:76}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:60}} All have small lock outs that are impacted by the 10% technically it does do something.... albeit very VERY minor. They just have really short CD like Kassadin. {{champion:150}} does have an ult and does not need anything special. {{champion:77}} Is the only other champion that like Shyvana does not have a true ultimate cool down rather just a timeout from all his abilities. Reducing his lock out on all his abilities could work. A bit Ironic that {{champion:102}} is the only champion that get's literally 0 benefit from the Dragon lol except her nerfed passive of course.
: It's been 991 days since Zyra last got a skin.
Soon {{champion:101}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:102}} One of us. {{champion:38}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:203}} One of us. {{champion:26}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:106}} One of us.
: The poison itself isn't primarily the changes themselves. The poison is the fact that we as the end user who openly support this game, especially those who have been around for all of its 10 years, have absolutely no say before massive changes are implemented, and we equally have no say in the trivial things that have been driving us mad for years. If a company cared enough about growth opportunities, they would statistically poll their consumers and if the results were that 70% of consumers found an extreme interest to the idea that their coffee would now contain different ingredients than what they were used to even without a choice to opt out for the remaining 30%, especially after sampling is made available, then of course there would be less severe backlash because -we- decided as a whole that that was what we wanted. Damage control is important, but damage prevention is vastly more optimal. Again, minority will be shafted, there is no way around that with leveraging decisions via statistics. However, we can at least still uncover the best positive outcome. Change for the sake of change has never been a particularly strong strategy in the business world and ultimately ends up doing more harm than good. The implementation of something new without the removal or deterioration of something old is more preferable. Sometimes even changing nothing is better than changing just to attempt to refresh things. A better idea would have been instead for Riot to address the plethora of trivial matters raised over the years for Season 10. It could have been as simple as duplicate Season 9, patch it up, sharpen, polish and re-shipping it would have yielded a much more happier crowd overall. The changes would have been more well-received as they came from the players themselves. These boards would become desolate or a paradise full of praising. Yet, here we still are, disgruntled, reminiscing, hoping, speculating, and complaining. Now, one could certainly argue that this is not our game. One could also tack on the compound argument that the game is free to play and that you are free to leave if you do not like it. Regardless, the game would undoubtedly become more prosperous, enjoyable and sustainable if the player had just a little more voice over the state of the game. We are capable of great ideas too and would love to see them brought to life. This simple concept would take the game to a new level, if enough players shared the same sentiments for changes to be released. The game still has potential to become far greater than it has ever been and waiting for this moment is why some of us veteran players are still sticking around. But it is indeed their game to do as they wish. Though, when the underlining qualities of something completely diminish, so will its supporters.
Since I doubt we are talking about the preaseason any more I'm just going to go of the rails with you lol. > The poison itself isn't primarily the changes themselves. The poison is the fact that we as the end user who openly support this game, especially those who have been around for all of its 10 years, have absolutely no say before massive changes are implemented, and we equally have no say in the trivial things that have been driving us mad for years. False as a collective group the community has made multiple changes. The largest one of recent is the ranked changes. That Riot wanted to push no matter what, but after a few months was finally pulled. Recently Eternals seem to be suffering the same issues with massive lash back, and Riot are reanalyzing it and potentially ice boxing it. Per individuals For myself, looking at the eternal I checked to see if anyone posted something similar to me about Shyvanas Dragon eternal counter. No one did, meaning I personally influenced Riot to change the eternal to R's landed to Dragons acquired. Whether or not that sticks is unknown. A player recommended Sonas ammo bar which was to be implemented soon. As far as larger changes go I am unaware and I doubt one ever has been done where 1 players recommended a change that was large and no one jumped on the bandwagon before it was done. However, Dragon Master Swain was not a Riot concept, rather credit goes to the creator of the original piece. While not nearly to the extent we'd all like, the community can make a difference sometimes, and remember over all the customers rule, if Riot were to displease all it's customers at once, Riot would quickly go bankrupt. > If a company cared enough about growth opportunities, they would statistically poll their consumers and if the results were that 70% of consumers found an extreme interest to the idea that their coffee would now contain different ingredients than what they were used to even without a choice to opt out for the remaining 30%, especially after sampling is made available, then of course there would be less severe backlash because -we- decided as a whole that that was what we wanted. Damage control is important, but damage prevention is vastly more optimal. But how do you know that 70% do or do not like it? Perhaps, like myself, many more enjoy the changes. What's to say they are not appealing to the majority? League has only grown, some parts artificially, but you cannot deny that league is larger than it was 3 years ago, whether or not it's the same number as they post is up in the air. As a side point before we go into the minorities, I get what you are saying, but it's slightly unfair since League must be kept fresh, if it were to stagnate it would slowly wither. So these changes are "necessary evils" if you will. > Again, minority will be shafted, there is no way around that with leveraging decisions via statistics. However, we can at least still uncover the best positive outcome. Change for the sake of change has never been a particularly strong strategy in the business world and ultimately ends up doing more harm than good. The implementation of something new without the removal or deterioration of something old is more preferable. Sometimes even changing nothing is better than changing just to attempt to refresh things. As in my side point, this is necessary changes as they need to spice up something, (can you imagine if we were stuck on season 9 forever? Lol, This game would have 5 years tops.) The "best possible outcome" is ambiguous and determined by each individual. Unfortunately, a large crowd that is still the minority losing out is the way of larger games, they cannot and WILL NOT please everyone. Therefore their "best possible outcome" can only be determined by stats and the majorities voice. > A better idea would have been instead for Riot to address the plethora of trivial matters raised over the years for Season 10. It could have been as simple as duplicate Season 9, patch it up, sharpen, polish and re-shipping it would have yielded a much more happier crowd overall. The changes would have been more well-received as they came from the players themselves. While these "Trivial matters" could be simple changes etc. If Riot kept SoS or kept Jungle EXP the same. Those issues just remain. Jaxs E is always up and Powerganking is still op. Preseason level changes are needed as they bomb many of those Trials at once. However, they do damage other things as well and that's what needs to be correct by patching. Note Turret plating was the largest change from last season, most of it remained the same, unless bounties are included. This was keeping season 8 and adding some flair to it, it did improve the season 9, but ultimate did not do enough about damage. This season introduced many things to combat damage, we'll see what the end result is soon. >These boards would become desolate or a paradise full of praising. Yet, here we still are, disgruntled, reminiscing, hoping, speculating, and complaining. Hate to break it to you, but this will NEVER happen. The boards are hyper toxic and there is a reason some Rioters avoids them. > Now, one could certainly argue that this is not our game. One could also tack on the compound argument that the game is free to play and that you are free to leave if you do not like it. You can, but they'd be wrong, when you invest enough time into a game, it becomes more than an online thing you start getting connected. Yes, it's free, but some have invested money and others a lot of time. So their point is null. Regardless, the game would undoubtedly become more prosperous, enjoyable and sustainable if the player had just a little more voice over the state of the game. Certain players, unfortunately, many players have poor analysis. Recently Senna was all the rage about her stupid op Stealth cloud. So many post and up votes about this is stupid broken. Tell me where are they now? Nothing about her E changed, why is it not OP anymore? Many players have poor analysis. Even mains. I've talked to many Shyvana mains that I look at the screen and say to myself, "did they really just type that?" How do you not know that Shyvana W is not physical with over 300 games? SO there definitely players Riot does need to listen to, but unfortunately they are rare unicorns to find. We are capable of great ideas too and would love to see them brought to life. This simple concept would take the game to a new level, if enough players shared the same sentiments for changes to be released. The game still has potential to become far greater than it has ever been and waiting for this moment is why some of us veteran players are still sticking around. United changes have been made even reverts called for, LB/Rengo/Kog It can happen, but I'd agree the frequency leaves a lot to be desired. > But it is indeed their game to do as they wish. Though, when the underlining qualities of something completely diminish, so will its supporters. Riot is not at the level I think they want to be either when it comes to feedback and community interaction, in part though I believe it's both parties fault. Riot has very... "poor" reasoning at times, and in order to keep things secret will blunder and make weird or silly statements. Or flat out lie about a change they say will go through and never does. On the flip side the community is uber toxic as a whole. (Yes there are players that are not.) Riot tends to avoid them as their analysis is usually. RIOT FIX RIVEN IDK HOW BUT SHE IS OP!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOU LIVES? Both of which are not very good for the end goal of having seamless communication.
Charmy Bird (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b1NHIi6K,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T17:40:35.057+0000) > > I think I missed your point then, are you saying that jungle feels weak because you can't keep up with solo laners or come back XP was removed? > > Shaco kept up with his solo laners Aatrox and Ori, you were about 1-2 levels behind most the mid game until 25 min where all 4 of you were nearly the same XP. > > Shaco clearly kept up despite the nerfs, while ganking too. You didn't but you still didn't better than you GP who I am assuming got camped. > > Now if you are talking about comeback XP, I think that it is not good for game since you get a "reward" for losing. Jungle doesn't seem weaker to me, but again I could just be biased as I have only stomped in preseason. I wouldn't say your games have any alarming trends either. I think Solo lanes should maintain a level lead, while Junglers have one over bot lane. Since jungle is a bit safer than lanes when it comes to securing gold/minion even though it's less safe over all . Yea ofc losing shouldn't be rewarded but being passive and farming should be rewarding. In theast ekko game I had I stomped and we even won while our adc was afk because ahead the whole game. But if someone isn't performing well he should be able to comeback and not be behind all game even though he is ahead in farming. To sum up the jg xp nerfs makes it impossible for a weaker jungler to comeback
So, I'm a power farmer (Shyvana main), but I do not think that if someone took a risk ganking and succeed and was efficient, should get an advantage over a power farmer. Because of risk. I am not okay with the way champions were camping lanes ignoring farm or only farming red side, and power ganking that was nonpunishable since you' would still be behind in EXP and gold despite farming. This go around, if a jungler chooses to be passive and the other is aggressive and takes risk the aggro one should be rewarded, but if he should fail a gank or be inefficient then the power farming champion should be stronger and be able to punish later. Your games follow this premise (from a statistical view) So far tuning is needed, like always, but the jungle direction IMO is on track to a better experience over all. IDK I guess we'll have to go beyond 3 days of data to find out.
: Hey, thanks for reporting this! Was there a Shaco or another champion with a clone in the game that this happened in?
If the games match up with the objectives/bans, Shaco was in this one. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/match/eune/2317070132#participant4 This one did not contain a clone champion. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/match/eune/2316450030#participant10
Auxion (EUNE)
: I never said they are dodging it on purpose, i say they are dodging on accident. Most of the time people manage to pick at the last second, but once in 3 games, it happens. Its fine, i don't mind it, i just wanna share my feelings.
Neither was I, I was covering all bases, you inquired... > I don't know why are people doing this, Your reasoning is likely not the answer why they did it, I provided context as to multiple other reason this could be the case. I had no intention to tell you what the exact reason was, but what it could be. If this is a rant post there is a place for that, I was under the impression that you were genuinely seeking an answer if that is not the case then that's fine.
Auxion (EUNE)
: Can we talk about last second picks?
Here are some that jump at me. Runes Lag/Bugs Watching Youtube Talking Distraction Undecided/ last second change Waiting on someone to choose the champion they will swap with. I strongly doubt they are dodging to force you onto another role as you are no longer in the game with them and they cannot control that.
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-21T19:19:58.006+0000) > > Per 2 days of analysis and no trends discovered as people are still testing out what works? Perhaps let's give it more than 2 days to figure out if something works? Clearly the old way was abusable and unhealthy so something needed to change. > > It's a bug, they'll fix it. I've looked at many players history and none have Elder games. IT's a super rare occurrence to get it and have the correct champions for it to happen. > > XD, we are joking right? Ocean looks great, Infernal makes the map feel super different despite the changes not being that big. > I think it's just players need to adjust to the map they've seen for about 5 years now. > > If 1 or two champions are oppressive they can be dealt with since the new conq is better(health wise), currently Cassio and Ryze have no worrying trends, who I believe are the poster children of this notion. Yes her winrate increased, but by 1% > > I think this Item is garbage, as a weak early duelist, Shyvana, I beat a Rengar 1v1 with it, so I'm not under the impression that it's op. > > Again I have not experienced this, I believe it's because people are adjusting from "I MUST GANK" to "wait farming matters too". Power ganking is much weaker now, power farming can keep you on track with laners. Slower clear champions that use ganks must be more efficient or suffer in EXP. > > I mean... is that a Preseason issue or like a Riot issue. > Now that XP is no longer supported perhaps they can optimize the client more. Reminder. Just because the colour scheme doesn't hurt your or gives you a headache or some other side effect it doesn't mean that its the same for other people. I have an issue with hues of purple, especially if it's mixed with blue and it flashes (lightning spells in KOTOR almost made want to throw up and i had to quit playing the character) You can never know what affects people
> [{quoted}](name=Xalasmeni Banana,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=00020004,timestamp=2019-11-22T19:10:14.772+0000) > > Reminder. Just because the colour scheme doesn't hurt your or gives you a headache or some other side effect it doesn't mean that its the same for other people. > > I have an issue with hues of purple, especially if it's mixed with blue and it flashes (lightning spells in KOTOR almost made want to throw up and i had to quit playing the character) > > You can never know what affects people True, but would you say you are in the majority or that the amount of people affected by these changes were truly because of dragons? Remember, these people played league, meaning the tint/reds/blues that were already in the game just made more profound suddenly impacted people more? And a significant margin? Those people were not affected by normal SR, but 10% of the community is red sensitive and so infernal needs to be disabled? Rain affects them too? (since all other colors and effects are the same for ocean just more profound) These sensitivities should have existed BEFORE Dragons yet it's only after? Seems awfully convenient. I do not doubt some are affected, but I strongly doubt it's as significant of the player base. Additionally these should be affecting them in movies and other games that are much more intense than league. I'm under the impression that their "brains are hurting" because they are so used to the map and when a dragon spawns everything changes. Regardless meddler said they will be reducing them. While I still think it's unnecessary I am not impacted by the change either way, so if it makes more people happy so be it since I remain neutral.
: You can still make decisions that will have negative impacts while sincerely not knowing or believing that they will. It's just optimistic decision making based on either blind faith or ignorance (lack of using tools and logic to determine what really is the best choice that most can benefit from, or at least learning what _not_ to assume about the majority). You don't have to necessarily spit in one's coffee as a deliberate attack. You very well could just have a strong belief that your spit happens to taste better than milk, and therefore become apt to sharing if you are in power to do so. But it will always be better to first verify if what you are about to do is actually desired by those you affect rather than to assume. I can certainly tell you the things that I specifically don't like, but I'm just one mind within a larger mass. Individually I don't matter. Just another voice in the crowd of other loud, either angry or excited individuals. It's the main issue of a dichotomy and having differing views on a large scale. No one really knows what's best unless those in power take the epistemological and pragmatic approach of logical research and survey before marking a finalization. No one knows what's right or wrong because its subjective to any one individual, so aggregate the opinions and base the decisions on the results. Problems can be at least solved for the majority, with input and math. I think that's good enough. You agree? Sure, there's always going to be someone who gets shafted, but it's still better that those who fall into that category be the minority. The somewhat good thing here is that there will always be time spare for adjustments, since this is the preseason after all, which can be seen as a beta testing phase anyway. Though, as I've observed with Riot each season, major gameplay changes are typically final and that the preseason is mostly used to address unexpected game-breaking bugs and fine-tuning of the major changes will be done throughout the season. Never have they scrapped anything altogether right after release. At least I can say they are firm with their decisions. Uncertainty does not garner followers.
> I can certainly tell you the things that I specifically don't like, but I'm just one mind within a larger mass. Again you analogy is sound, it makes sense. I am not questioning whether poisoning or spit or milk make a difference in the analogy. I also don't just want things you don't like. What I was inquiring was what exactly is riots spiteful change, what did they change that hurt players intentionally? Using your analogy, I could poor you a cup in good faith that you'd like Folgers, but if you are Buestello man you may hate it. If I poored you a cup of Buestello with vinegar. Then yeah I know you are going to hate it most likely. There is a small chanvce you may like it. So what is Riots Vinegar? What is Riots spit? Dragons? What about them seems toxic and deliberate to ruin the game? Riot clearly wanted to increase the value of the objective while bringing a unique change to an unchanging map for years. Should players despise this coffee enough like the ranked changes Riot will revert it, but their intent was not to ruin players experience or tax it. EXP changes were made to appeal to top laners and try to increase carry potential/influence from those lanes. While that cup may taste more bitter for bot lane/junglers, Solo laners will love it. Again though these changes were not made to ruin other players experience just empower others.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 22
How is Jungle EXP shaping out so far? Is it higher lower the same? How significant is the margin between Solo lanes and Junglers?
Charmy Bird (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b1NHIi6K,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-22T17:02:10.054+0000) > > I've seen this a few times and have tried to look at peoples EXP over time. Looking at data can help see if the trend is worrying or not. > > My games are biased as I played Shyvana and I dominated all of my games so far, even goofing off in some. So I am not accurate, all my EXP are either higher or the same as solo laners. > > > Your recent loss on Yi, you did maintain extremely similar EXP levels up to 24 minutes then a small gap was manifest. After 30 minutes then you started to really take hits on EXP, but I think this had to do more with your team losing over all then Jungle EXP as you were likely getting most from lanes at this point. > > In your Ekko game, you maintained the highest EXP while even your fed Syndra couldn't keep up, Yi did and did pass you before the game concluded, Noc was unable to keep up and udyr kept pace with him despite being on the losing jungle. > > Your J4 game looks like you struggled farming, but ganked a lot instead and it payed off. WW was the highest EXP at 8 minutes and stayed high in exp while you ganked. Had some of your ganks gone bad WW could have possibly abused you and Darius who was also low on XP. > > Ekko seemed to be the beneficiary of your great ganks and got a kill EXP and gold lead they could not come back from. > > Your Rengar game is a great one to end on as these games all express exactly what Riot wants... I think. That game you definitely tried to gank more than farm, but you paid the price when you were not successful. This was likely in response to JAx or jax responded to you, I can't tell which. Regardless there are clear flattens that you guys aren't even touching camps and likely fighting. 4-6 min and 10-12 If you were to look at 7-10 minutes though you'd see that by farming you were visibly catching up, but once you tried ganking again and I'm assuming it failed, you too another hit in EXP. > > The changes seem to be working as intended for you. Farm, and 2 things can happen. > > 1. You can get a solid game like your Ekko game weaving in ganks and getting the best of both worlds. > > 2. Be like the WW and while you did maintain high EXP you never got to a point you could use it since your J4/Ekko combo won the game before he could pop off. > You also have the YI game that you stay similar and the game lasted 30 minutes, but I guess team fights didn't work out. > > On the flip side you could gank and > > 1. Risk losing EXP like on the rengar game and fall off hard. > > 2. Successfully gank and despite being lower level, still win the board though power ganking like the J4 game. In my yi game I was like 5-6 while shaco was 6-8 while having same farm but he had more assists and I couldn't level up at all from camps unlike last season. So I've been thinking that if ure locked in a game where u can't do much just farming camps wont help u at all
I think I missed your point then, are you saying that jungle feels weak because you can't keep up with solo laners or come back XP was removed? Shaco kept up with his solo laners Aatrox and Ori, you were about 1-2 levels behind most the mid game until 25 min where all 4 of you were nearly the same XP. Shaco clearly kept up despite the nerfs, while ganking too. You didn't but you still didn't better than you GP who I am assuming got camped. Now if you are talking about comeback XP, I think that it is not good for game since you get a "reward" for losing. Jungle doesn't seem weaker to me, but again I could just be biased as I have only stomped in preseason. I wouldn't say your games have any alarming trends either. I think Solo lanes should maintain a level lead, while Junglers have one over bot lane. Since jungle is a bit safer than lanes when it comes to securing gold/minion even though it's less safe over all .
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2019-11-22T14:33:54.541+0000) > > And what here is equal to spitting in your coffee and why? > This is more, oh you wanted cream and not decaf let me fix that. One naturally grows fond and familiar with the flavor of their favorite coffee as they've had it daily for the past 9 years. If they didn't enjoy it to some high extent, they wouldn't be fond of it. Then one morning, you are told that the beverage will from now on be made with saliva instead of milk, for no reason other than to "shake things up". Some will still drink despite the odd flavor. Fewer may actually enjoy it more. But the majority are guaranteed to be repulsed and bail. Neverminding the voice of the majority of supporters is a sure way for a company to sizzle out, and for a newer more traditional company with enough traditional qualities plus new enticing/exciting differences to sprout and claim those needlessly lost shares. The oversimplified explanation of how corporate works. Too often does a company become their own worst enemy by not taking initiatives revolving around the best interests of the end user, and instead, basing decisions around the best interests of what they assume the customer would hypothetically be interested in. This is why A/B testing with survey is such an invaluable tool before final releases - to collect important statistics as to whether a global decision is great, good, neutral or poor. I don't think Riot used the power of words and numbers to their advantage. But oh well. I'm just a user just as anyone else. I have no say or opinion that truly matters. But I do love the psychology of business, economics and statistics. I wonder all the time what brings them to the finalizations they make. Seems to me like acts of whim and faith. "We have loyal following. People will still follow even if we slap them." Sadly, the statement does hold true depending on the tolerance of the disciples, which can be pretty darn high because human beings thrive on following charismatic leaders.
> [{quoted}](name=Darkstar Annie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=0002000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-22T17:15:47.090+0000) > > Then one morning, you are told that the beverage will from now on be made with saliva instead of milk, for no reason other than to "shake things up". > > Some will still drink despite the odd flavor. Fewer may actually enjoy it more. But the majority are guaranteed to be repulsed and bail. So While I agree that if this were the case your statement is accurate, but I fail to see what is spit vs just a new milk/creamer. Spit is extremely derogatory indicating that Riot is doing something to spite or attack players. Doing something deliberately to ruin the players experience. While you may not like the changes and you are entitled to your opinion, nothing about preseason tells me that Riot is making the changes to "spit" into players coffee. I could see if Riot said, "you know what you guys want longer games? How about this... Nexus towers have 1,000,000 HP. Enjoy!" That would be a change clearly with the intent to spite players. Or the Yasuo buff they trolled with that he had the AOE q's.
Charmy Bird (EUNE)
: Jungle feels off
I've seen this a few times and have tried to look at peoples EXP over time. Looking at data can help see if the trend is worrying or not. My games are biased as I played Shyvana and I dominated all of my games so far, even goofing off in some. So I am not accurate, all my EXP are either higher or the same as solo laners. Your recent loss on Yi, you did maintain extremely similar EXP levels up to 24 minutes then a small gap was manifest. After 30 minutes then you started to really take hits on EXP, but I think this had to do more with your team losing over all then Jungle EXP as you were likely getting most from lanes at this point. In your Ekko game, you maintained the highest EXP while even your fed Syndra couldn't keep up, Yi did and did pass you before the game concluded, Noc was unable to keep up and udyr kept pace with him despite being on the losing jungle. Your J4 game looks like you struggled farming, but ganked a lot instead and it payed off. WW was the highest EXP at 8 minutes and stayed high in exp while you ganked. Had some of your ganks gone bad WW could have possibly abused you and Darius who was also low on XP. Ekko seemed to be the beneficiary of your great ganks and got a kill EXP and gold lead they could not come back from. Your Rengar game is a great one to end on as these games all express exactly what Riot wants... I think. That game you definitely tried to gank more than farm, but you paid the price when you were not successful. This was likely in response to JAx or jax responded to you, I can't tell which. Regardless there are clear flattens that you guys aren't even touching camps and likely fighting. 4-6 min and 10-12 If you were to look at 7-10 minutes though you'd see that by farming you were visibly catching up, but once you tried ganking again and I'm assuming it failed, you too another hit in EXP. The changes seem to be working as intended for you. Farm, and 2 things can happen. 1. You can get a solid game like your Ekko game weaving in ganks and getting the best of both worlds. 2. Be like the WW and while you did maintain high EXP you never got to a point you could use it since your J4/Ekko combo won the game before he could pop off. You also have the YI game that you stay similar and the game lasted 30 minutes, but I guess team fights didn't work out. On the flip side you could gank and 1. Risk losing EXP like on the rengar game and fall off hard. 2. Successfully gank and despite being lower level, still win the board though power ganking like the J4 game.
iMidg3t (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-21T19:19:58.006+0000) > > XD, we are joking right? Ocean looks great, Infernal makes the map feel super different despite the changes not being that big. As pretty as map changes look, ngl when ocean drake changed the map it was kinda unpleasant for me to look the map. It's not "my eyes hurt" levels of it, but it still bothered me a lil bit. So some players might have a harder time with this.
> [{quoted}](name=iMidg3t,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2019-11-22T15:04:58.905+0000) > > As pretty as map changes look, ngl when ocean drake changed the map it was kinda unpleasant for me to look the map. It's not "my eyes hurt" levels of it, but it still bothered me a lil bit. So some players might have a harder time with this. And I can see players being bothered by it, that's perfectly fine. I love the rain others don't, therefore I am much more likely to like Ocean than someone that does no like rain. People will get bothered by the changes as they already are, but I highly doubt there is more than 0.05% of players that are genuinely physically impacted by the changes.
SirEnds (NA)
: Has this icon been put in the shop for purchase yet or is it going to be available soon?
Most likely this is for the BE event with all the other chibis, which starts on the 25th I believe. (I did not double check.)
: > [{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBnxdUYn,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-21T16:45:10.814+0000) > > I want to highly disagree on a number of these opinions. > > * Jungle isn't a trash role now, they just made farming Jungle more viable so that junglers like Lee Sin cant spend everygame trying to farm 10 kills while everyone is still under 100cs. Farming Junglers aren't viable at all. 95% of the Jungler champs can't even keep up with spawn timers if they AFK farm. Even if you AFK farm you fall 2-3 levels behind solo laners and are like 1k+ gold down which means when the lane phase is over you're weak in skirmishes and teamfights. Role is actually just unplayable
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dohk99fU0AUPzCl.jpg
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-21T19:19:58.006+0000) > > Per 2 days of analysis and no trends discovered as people are still testing out what works? Perhaps let's give it more than 2 days to figure out if something works? Clearly the old way was abusable and unhealthy so something needed to change. > > It's a bug, they'll fix it. I've looked at many players history and none have Elder games. IT's a super rare occurrence to get it and have the correct champions for it to happen. > > XD, we are joking right? Ocean looks great, Infernal makes the map feel super different despite the changes not being that big. > I think it's just players need to adjust to the map they've seen for about 5 years now. > > If 1 or two champions are oppressive they can be dealt with since the new conq is better(health wise), currently Cassio and Ryze have no worrying trends, who I believe are the poster children of this notion. Yes her winrate increased, but by 1% > > I think this Item is garbage, as a weak early duelist, Shyvana, I beat a Rengar 1v1 with it, so I'm not under the impression that it's op. > > Again I have not experienced this, I believe it's because people are adjusting from "I MUST GANK" to "wait farming matters too". Power ganking is much weaker now, power farming can keep you on track with laners. Slower clear champions that use ganks must be more efficient or suffer in EXP. > > I mean... is that a Preseason issue or like a Riot issue. > Now that XP is no longer supported perhaps they can optimize the client more. Instead of those angry ranting posts it's a more reasonable post. Nice to see.
> [{quoted}](name=dªydream,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-22T05:19:31.108+0000) > > Instead of those angry ranting posts it's a more reasonable post. Nice to see. The goal is to hope that a few more people will think about it a bit more before posting. We have no shortage of nerf/revert this post, because people that do not like something tend to unite on the boards and people that are content with something tend to... well continue to play that and stay away from the boards. Thanks though
Salron (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-21T19:19:58.006+0000) > > XD, we are joking right? Ocean looks great, Infernal makes the map feel super different despite the changes not being that big. > I think it's just players need to adjust to the map they've seen for about 5 years now. The screen tint legitimately gives many people including myself a headache Don't downplay this shit just because you're personally not affected
> [{quoted}](name=Salron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-11-22T05:27:14.303+0000) > > The screen tint legitimately gives many people including myself a headache > Don't downplay this shit just because you're personally not affected You are talking to the wrong person if you think that's how I remotely operate. I see things how they are most of the time. It's ironic that you exaggerate something due to "experiencing it." You talk as if your anecdotal evidence is all that matter ignoring relevant data. Generally it's better to remove the people that have "experienced" it when you are looking for an unbiased viewpoint, you could at least agree on that. Yes people that experience certain thing are extremely useful in certain regards of research that's not the point. Yes people who's eyes are getting hurt are the ones that matter. But I think that it's a bit silly to say that the very mute changes compared to other games graphics and features are the cause of their eye strain. There are AAA games that have a lot more going on with MUCH more intense colors. Movies that generate a slew more colors than this game offers with much more harsh tones, and if they are affected by all of those, perhaps its time to make bigger decisions in life than trying to get those companies to change it. Honestly though all the colors and tones have existed in someway, I cannot prove this, but I honestly believe the source of their frustration is their unfamiliarity with the map. I guess 6 months from now we'll see if I'm right, but I doubt anyone will be complaining anymore once they have adjusted to it. This map is ingrained into some peoples heads, every corner, every plant. Infernal/Ocean and Mountain flip the bird to your brain and tell you relearn this, and your brain does not like it.
: I commend you for your optimism, but you might be just a tad bit too optimistic. If someone spits in my coffee, I wouldn't be as readily accepting as you to shrug it off and still take a sip.
> [{quoted}](name=Darkstar Annie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5fULvrOH,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2019-11-22T05:32:03.052+0000) > > I commend you for your optimism, but you might be just a tad bit too optimistic. If someone spits in my coffee, I wouldn't be as readily accepting as you to shrug it off and still take a sip. And what here is equal to spitting in your coffee and why? This is more, oh you wanted cream and not decaf let me fix that.
Senamz13 (NA)
: It's preseason! Let me go see what people think about theses changes on the boards... Oh
> 1) Apparently support items are too weak? Per 2 days of analysis and no trends discovered as people are still testing out what works? Perhaps let's give it more than 2 days to figure out if something works? Clearly the old way was abusable and unhealthy so something needed to change. > 2) Elder dragon execute bug? It's a bug, they'll fix it. I've looked at many players history and none have Elder games. IT's a super rare occurrence to get it and have the correct champions for it to happen. > 3) Elemental drake map recolor/texture hurts players eyes? XD, we are joking right? Ocean looks great, Infernal makes the map feel super different despite the changes not being that big. I think it's just players need to adjust to the map they've seen for about 5 years now. > 4) Conqueror is being abused on ability spamming mages? If 1 or two champions are oppressive they can be dealt with since the new conq is better(health wise), currently Cassio and Ryze have no worrying trends, who I believe are the poster children of this notion. Yes her winrate increased, but by 1% > 5) Sanguine blade is blatantly broken on some champions? I think this Item is garbage, as a weak early duelist, Shyvana, I beat a Rengar 1v1 with it, so I'm not under the impression that it's op. > 6) Junglers are extremely under-leveled? Again I have not experienced this, I believe it's because people are adjusting from "I MUST GANK" to "wait farming matters too". Power ganking is much weaker now, power farming can keep you on track with laners. Slower clear champions that use ganks must be more efficient or suffer in EXP. > 7) Client problems still persist? > 8) Players having FPS drops in game? I mean... is that a Preseason issue or like a Riot issue. Now that XP is no longer supported perhaps they can optimize the client more.
Mimr (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mnl5t7za,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-20T18:11:06.317+0000) > > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dohk99fU0AUPzCl.jpg Yeah, secured Ocean Dragon Soul as Shyv today in my first game of 9.23. I went full {{champion:36}} mode with Dragon Soul, Conqueror, Triumph and Spirit Visage the next teamfight.
> [{quoted}](name=Mimr,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mnl5t7za,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-11-20T21:46:16.958+0000) > > Yeah, secured Ocean Dragon Soul as Shyv today in my first game of 9.23. I went full {{champion:36}} mode with Dragon Soul, Conqueror, Triumph and Spirit Visage the next teamfight. That sounds amazing.
: I don't know what Aphelios does but:
But wouldn't you want him as an ADC so you can have the most communication intense lane ever? I can see it now. {{champion:134}}: Come on Nasus that's the third time Blitz has ganked you, play safer. {{champion:75}}: Well I would if bot would ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE!!! Aphelios .... {{champion:37}} .... {{champion:102}}: But they pinged... {{champion:53}} An ally has been slain. {{champion:75}} {{champion:75}}: /all Report bot lane for not communicating.
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xuZqOXYy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-20T19:49:11.069+0000) > > So, I don't want to say your are flat out wrong because we are speculating and I don't want to be rude, but in theory you are. > > Dragon 1 and 2 are the "early game" dragons, if you will, These dragons are WEAKER than last patch. Meaning getting the 1st 2 means less for 2 huge reasons. > > 1: They are weaker and have no chance of stacking. > 2: They do not accumulate to a late game buff (AKA Elder) > > Losing the first two dragons except if you are Shyvana should not feel bad at all, and you should only contest if you can. > > The 3rd dragon at a minimum, must spawn around 16 min, this is 16 minutes of farming/laning and fights that have nothing to do with this dragon. If by then you cannot contest or you are not on equal footing. Then YOU did something wrong. Dragons had nothing to do with that, nor your jungler since at this point you should be rotating around the map. > > A 3rd dragon should never be impacted by 1 lane since it will always have at least a 16 minute window before it spawns. > > So your priority on early dragons needs to be changed, they are not that important. Again they are WEAKER, if you weren't contesting dragons before for any similar reason to last patch, you definitely shouldn't be now. The 3rd dragon is also weaker than the one last patch, but it does begin your stacking so, it's priority should be pretty high. > > The second stacked dragon forward (min 21 minutes) will be the only time a dragon buff is stronger than it's previous iteration. You missed my points. In my games both teams scrambled to fight for drakes. The team that lost the first drake lost the second one as well. Losing a team fight that early means 1 team gets 3 or even 4 kills ahead which is alot. Because now people teamfight at the drake. So the second drake can potentially set the winning team at 7 - 1 or so. Because if the midlane gets a double they will keep facerolling their opponent until the next drake and when the next team fight happens they will also win it again. So the losing team ends up being farther and farher behind. So you have almost no chance getting the later dragons. I know that in one game that actually lasted 20 minutes, we lost every drake. Every single one. We couldn't contest any of them after losing the first two
>In my games both teams scrambled to fight for drakes. This is the issue, if your team is not ready or prepared to fight giving up that dragon for pushing power, shelly, or a turret is almost always going to be better than Dragon 1 and 2. You need to communicate with your team to back off and inform them the dragon is not worth this risky fight. If you are confident you can fight and lose then that's again just on your team. >I know that in one game that actually lasted 20 minutes, we lost every drake. Every single one. We couldn't contest any of them after losing the first two This is my point, giving up dragon 1 and 2 instead of 3-7 kills with it, will result in you being able to contest the 3rd dragon or even the fourth. Just because you CAN contest doesn't mean you SHOULD contest. Restraint in this regard is required. As your mind calibrates to the actual value of each dragon, you will possibly understand that their value is much lower than you are currently thinking. Yes losing a team fight can result to a catastrophe, but dragon 1 and 2 and maybe even 3 should not be causing that fight as their value is no where near the 2nd stacked dragon (the 4th dragon to spawn) and onward or Elder. Picking the right fight is the skill that is needed here, and you are pinning that on the dragon changes instead of examining how you could've reacted to the situation better. Had you taken those fights literally yesterday, the result of the game would be the same if not better for the enemy team.
: I already think season 10 is the worst season yet and here's why
So, I don't want to say your are flat out wrong because we are speculating and I don't want to be rude, but in theory you are. Dragon 1 and 2 are the "early game" dragons, if you will, These dragons are WEAKER than last patch. Meaning getting the 1st 2 means less for 2 huge reasons. 1: They are weaker and have no chance of stacking. 2: They do not accumulate to a late game buff (AKA Elder) Losing the first two dragons except if you are Shyvana should not feel bad at all, and you should only contest if you can. The 3rd dragon at a minimum, must spawn around 16 min, this is 16 minutes of farming/laning and fights that have nothing to do with this dragon. If by then you cannot contest or you are not on equal footing. Then YOU did something wrong. Dragons had nothing to do with that, nor your jungler since at this point you should be rotating around the map. A 3rd dragon should never be impacted by 1 lane since it will always have at least a 16 minute window before it spawns. So your priority on early dragons needs to be changed, they are not that important. Again they are WEAKER, if you weren't contesting dragons before for any similar reason to last patch, you definitely shouldn't be now. The 3rd dragon is also weaker than the one last patch, but it does begin your stacking so, it's priority should be pretty high. The second stacked dragon forward (min 21 minutes) will be the only time a dragon buff is stronger than it's previous iteration.
: I am going to love season 10
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dohk99fU0AUPzCl.jpg
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FiEVJac0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-20T17:08:22.779+0000) > > I hope you are talking about dragons, if there is a direct nerf I will be upset. > > Ultimately, cloud is the only one now that is useless and a little bit of Ocean 4 mana portion. > > Easier to take down dragons though and more power into farming is good for the Dragon lady though. Shyvana can now impact the early game a bit without ganking. Of course everything in a game is subjective to what is happening, but a top side jungle ward that spots the enemy might just make Dragons free on Shyvana since she already melts them. > > Shelly is also very easy for Shyvana. From a macro perspective Shyvana got buffed, but so did some of her counters so we'll see where she actually falls. > > BTW: Shyvanas full clear+ 1 scuttle recall and return to krugs/gromp is ~8 seconds from that camps respawn. Meaning she can do 2 full clears with no down time. How much impact that has remains to be seen. bruiser shy also lost SoS, some of her builds got hit hard asf
SoS, was a hit only because traditional Shyvana was underappreciated. True the stars had to align for on hit Shyvana to be the correct choice over AP. SoS in the jungle though was more of a luxury. Top Shyvana, is likely unplayable now, but not a lot of people were doing that anyway. Hextech might still work top, but other than SoS/Wits Tank, no other build was touched. Conq, IDK yet, I'll have to see how it plays out now that it stacks properly. I thought that was normal since Q is technically an ability. Now E W AA Q fully stacks conq. You could also get a Tiamat item and using your ult with an extra AA, heavily increase her AD burst, but again I have not tested those so I don't know.
MoonMoh (NA)
: LOOKING LEAGUE EDITOR!! MONEY NO ISSUE!!
For the affordable and fair price of just ######$3,717,045.99 each I'll have your videos done by next year. I think you'll find you cannot refuse this offer, so feel free to pay-pal me first on my Nigerian prince account. I also accept Target gift cards.
Xavanic (NA)
: another nerf to shyvana
I hope you are talking about dragons, if there is a direct nerf I will be upset. Ultimately, cloud is the only one now that is useless and a little bit of Ocean 4 mana portion. Easier to take down dragons though and more power into farming is good for the Dragon lady though. Shyvana can now impact the early game a bit without ganking. Of course everything in a game is subjective to what is happening, but a top side jungle ward that spots the enemy might just make Dragons free on Shyvana since she already melts them. Shelly is also very easy for Shyvana. From a macro perspective Shyvana got buffed, but so did some of her counters so we'll see where she actually falls. BTW: Shyvanas full clear+ 1 scuttle recall and return to krugs/gromp is ~8 seconds from that camps respawn. Meaning she can do 2 full clears with no down time. How much impact that has remains to be seen.
: Client is smoother now but no one talks about this
Haven't used it yet, I hope you are right. My only issue was when I played a TFT then went to the Rift I lost tons of Frames. But playing on the Rift all day did nothing. Also the mouse extra button bug was killer is it still there?
: They might have short stories with him diana and leona in it when we get closer to his release. Atleast I hope so.
: > [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cKokdMeu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-19T15:44:19.849+0000) > > Seems like Sona has a friend now, so your VO may not happen lol. > > Looks like he'll have his sister do the talking for him since she is what gives him his powers or moonstones.... Idk I'm just disappointed with the lack of Diana in it. His sister may talk for him to other champions, but he may talk to the player? Kind of like how Sona can.
I think they will talk to each other and that's how you will hear him, but direct lines to the players have been getting removed unless it's a joke. It would be interesting though to get the Neapolitan (From RWBY) of League where he legit says nothing. Many people love Neo exclusively because she says absolutely nothing. Sort of like Rammus.
: >Idk I'm just disappointed with the lack of Diana in it. To be fair, this bio is about Aphelios & Aluna & their backstory. It would make no sense for Diana to have a place in their backstories. Showing they all grew up separately & Diana didn't even know of the Lunari until recently. That said, what happens in the future/present is open territory. I would be more interested in seeing them all meet in real time rather than it being told to us via bio.
True, just a mention or something about the aspect of the moon or being a source for the moon stones, IDK something lol to connect her I don't think would detract from Aph, but it makes sense.
: Temp ult upgrades are okay. She aint permanently like that.
{{champion:102}} :**_ Phew..._**
: Stop friend request spam
If you block them they can no longer send you a FRQ.
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