: My point was that they should remove ward hopping entirely, for consistency's sake. It gives the remaining two characters with it unnecessary additional mobility. As a handy reference: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Movement_speed At the bottom it has a chart regarding characters and their movement speed. Cass has her own tier for obvious reasons, and half of the second top tier is transformation characters. Pantheon obviously doesn't have a lot of mobility through his kit, and Yi is debatable depending on how he's built and where his Q resets go. Here's a couple other examples based on the chart that I think are pretty outlandish: Akali being 345 while having four dashes and two movement speed increases. It's pretty much unanimous that she's out of line because of it, but having the ability to simply run down people on top of her kit is pretty absurd. If you take the bottom of the tier which is comprised mostly of carries, she outpaces all of them without using her own abilities. Fiora also falls into the 345 category. She does have her Q which refunds a lot of its own cooldown on hitting a target, but a lot of the problem with her is that once she's on you, she's on you. She has proxmity movement speed from her ult, and vital movement speed everytime one pops. Obviously not every character on the Wiki chart is a problem. But I do think that Riot really needs to reevaluate certain characters and make better strides toward having tradeoffs for high base mobility and ability-mobility. I think something they do right is having ranged carries at the bottom of the tiers. There's a couple examples like Kai'Sa that I think should be dropped there.
> My point was that they should remove ward hopping entirely, for consistency's sake. It gives the remaining two characters with it unnecessary additional mobility. Katarina only had hers removed because she gained ***Significantly*** more blinks on a lower CD with her Daggers being free resets. By all means, this is not unnessecary, additional mobility, when Riot has clearly been okay and supporting both of these mechanics, and have only removed it when they've clearly given more mobility in compensation.
: I don't wanna have to be that guy.......but patch day when the whole client and servers broke Riot responded and put that in the little yellow exclamation mark at the top right of the page where the blue one currently is(also exists on the launcher) informing everyone that they were aware of the problems and looking into fixing them. But there where still about 10 posts+ an hour from people who fail to read.
Thanks for being that guy, cause I would've been that guy otherwise.
: Truths about fps and crash bugs - Riot ignoring players
> and Riot won't solve it I think you mean **can't** solve it. Just because an issue isn't fixed immediately doesn't mean they're throwing it to the wayside. Issues like this can't be solved by just flipping to line 439 in the code and fixing it, because not everyone is experiencing these issues. It's possible that the high ping has to do with certain providers, it's possible that the FPS drop is only with certain PC rigs, there's too many variables involved to be able to label it as an easy fix.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N1u8e6qU,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-10T18:49:37.602+0000) > > Yeah the difference between today's Akali and Old Akali is that Riot just threw Akali to the sideline and didn't bother to touch her at all after they made it so she needed to auto for her Mark. Then they broke her again with the Assassin rework, but honestly it's been years since that day, and I can't remember what exactly went wrong :T. New design went wrong. Champions are designed to look flashy and cool nowdays instead of being healthy for the gameplay. Old akali had a lot of burst since lvl 6 but she had more counterplay. I generally hate the reworks. Old champions haven't been shown in pro play not because they were badly designed but because meta was different.
notkai (NA)
: I love the design for Yasuo, and I don't even play him. It's a gorgeous skin, and I like the character they're giving him through True Damage-related posts in League's instagram. But I have to concur that him having a more active role would have been a little more engaging. Him having no lines at all and minimal appearances during the MV make him seem like an afterthought. Like they storyboarded the MV and then went, "oh, shit, Yasuo is meant to be in here!" And I agree with others that IF having a "stoic silent DJ" (to quote mod Academy Kayn) was necessary to balance out Ekko and the other high-energy champs, a different champ would have been more appropriate. Yasuo's last skin was Battle Boss, and that's practically still new. I would have better appreciated Shen, Zed, Sylas, Xin Zhao, Talon, fuck even JHIN could have worked in that role. As much as I love the art, the concept, the music, etc., True Damage felt like a money grab to begin with, evidenced by both Yasuo and Akali getting a new skin within months of their last ones, meanwhile a good lot of champs are pressing three years since their latest skin. I would be less pressed about this if they gave him, idk, a personality? Lines? Anything? His character is pretty minimal and most of it is coming through Instagram right now. It all really just seems like a money grab from Yas players.
To clarify, I wasn't saying he was there to balance out the group in terms of energy. I'm just saying that both of the rap parts were given to Ekko, but the second rapper, the one at the end of the song, was still given a choice for a champion. Because his voice part was for the Ekko character, whatever character he chose wouldn't have any verses for the song, and so having a DJ character would fit perfectly with someone with no lines. Yeah, it could've been anyone, but he chose Yasuo. And even if Yasuo doesn't have any voice lines, I don't think not having lines doesn't mean he doesn't have any presence or influence in the video. I really liked the Ekko visuals with the fan that transitioned into the final rap verse, but that's just my personal opinion. Also, in term of the Akali-Yasuo prior skin thing, the Artists chose the champions. Not a lot Riot can do there.
: but what what if a casual player (who also likes prestige stuff) never looks at ask riots or anything.
It's not Riot's fault that the uninformed choose to not to look at what they put out and publish. You can publish what you can to help players, but you can't make them read or find it.
: What's the actual excuse of TD Yasuo?
https://i.gyazo.com/163407afa466b2048d8d935512ca8f18.png 5 artists, 5 champions in True Damage. If you watched the spectacle that was their live performance at Worlds, you'd see the two rap verses at the beginning and end are done by two different people, but both are 'rapped' by Ekko. Yasuo was likely his choice of a character since both the rap verses were done by Ekko, and having a stoic silent DJ isn't that a far thematic jump, since a DJ doesn't need to sing.
Terozu (NA)
: You had a month's notice about Qiyana's prestige being in this event. Stop complaining.
Realistically, I 'unno why people spend their tokens before the event is over in the first place, unless you're a really die-hard Riven main or get one of the Chromas.
Pika Fox (NA)
: The difference is her new kit is far more balanced. Old akali got less tweaks because they just gutted her intentionally. New akali doesnt have a kit that requires intentional gutting.
Yeah the difference between today's Akali and Old Akali is that Riot just threw Akali to the sideline and didn't bother to touch her at all after they made it so she needed to auto for her Mark. Then they broke her again with the Assassin rework, but honestly it's been years since that day, and I can't remember what exactly went wrong :T.
: I understand early game champions are supposed to be good at zoning
You were already at 80% health, he only took 60%, not including the fact that his W isnta-destroys shields.
: > [{quoted}](name=EATARI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mAqkebNa,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-08T19:24:18.986+0000) > > You do realize that the community has more than one opinion, right? Some people think damage is just fine, strangely enough. Yet the vast majority I see are saying it's too high. From boards, to reddit, to streamers, to youtubers, I've heard a lot more "damage is too high" as opposed to "Fuck dude I don't do enough damage"
Devil's advocate, you're only choosing two different sides of the same extreme. There could always be the opinions of "The current Damage is fine" and any of the opinions between the status Quo and either side. Some people could think damage is too high for select champions, others could think some champions don't do enough damage, and there could be any mix of that. Those status quo people are less likely to be heard, because they are fine with the current state of affairs and feel no need to voice their opinion. Satisfied people are far less likely to leave a review compared to people with extremely negative experiences, or extremely positive experiences. Hence, there's always the chance that you tend to hear a vocal minority, compared to the silent majority. With 88 million players still, the 20,000 people you may find combined on Reddit, the boards, streamers and youtubers, can give the impression of a relative small fraction. That's not saying I know what all 88 million players think, and that small fraction of people are instantly wrong. But what I am saying, is you need to be aware that just because people are talking about it, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you.
Larriet (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DwarvenGiant,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=YvXcA11B,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-08T16:02:19.847+0000) > > Reading this, first thing that comes to mind (after Cataclysm of course omg) is how the yeti race in Legends of Runeterra was probably designed after the old Willump, because the yeti in this game look nothing like his post-VGU design. > > That's one inconsistency that kinda bothers me, but mainly because I love Willump's modern design much more over the traditional "snowy gorilla" yeti. :D If you read Nunu & Willumps bio, you'll find that most people see the yetis as monsters, and that Willumps appearance changed in response to Nunu NOT seeing him that way. Indeed, they are shapeshifters in that way.
Kinda like Yordles change how they're seen based on people too....
KABLUMP (NA)
: Don't blame urf for dropoff, many of my friends quit due to FOMO burnout
Except URF fallout has been happening since URF came out before we had rapid fire events, before most people complaining (despite the fact that people have always complained) that these latest seasons are shit, before we got to this 'one shot' meta.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mq6EX9Nx,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-11-07T15:22:46.135+0000) > > But I actually like playing TFT. I didn't like to play TT, and it getting visually updated or balance updates wasn't going to get me to play it either. You like random luck based win game mode? That is so odd, lol.
Sure there's some random luck, but luck and random based outcomes can be found in tons of games, from war games to even MTG. There's still plenty in personal skill to be able to win in TFT though, as long as you don't require to be 1st every single game.
: I don't see that argument, but I wouldn't be able to answer it if I did. Twisted Treeline probably isn't a money drain given that Riot doesn't maintain it, so I don't see the harm in letting it stay or gain in removing it. Maybe Riot is superficial enough to remove a gamemode if it means reducing menu clutter. Who knows? All that's known is they're set on removing TT and there's few reasons to keep it.
> Twisted Treeline probably isn't a money drain given that Riot doesn't maintain it There's other costs like server cost and manpower cost from QA testers. They'd need to check and play new champions on the TT map, their interactions with things like Turrets falling, kills, champion interactions, or just normal Map testing like ensuring all options work on the map, playing it to make sure nothing too big breaks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mq6EX9Nx,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-11-07T15:12:58.854+0000) > > IKR, its almost as if the majority of the community didn't play TT due to it not counting for anything, and having no updates/balances. If they put HALF the effort into it as they are into TFT it would be an awesome mode with a-lot higher player base. > > The same can be said with Dominion before it was removed. For years, literally years the best way to get IP and XP was to play TT. TT was the best rewards, it counted for the MOST of anything. Nobody played it cause the mode sucks and nothing Riot can do will change that.
Nothing outside of completely changing the mode from the roots up, to the point where it isn't TT anymore in all but name.
: I'm sad that TFT was the reason why Twisted Treeline is going away
But I actually like playing TFT. I didn't like to play TT, and it getting visually updated or balance updates wasn't going to get me to play it either.
: I agree with this. The automated system bans people for saying a cuss word. It can be as harmless as "Shit". if someone is trolling and reports you. The automated system doesn't read convos. It scans for keywords and bans. I have been victim of this. When I was banned for calling someone annoying. That person reported me and the automated system sent a chat dialogue of what was said. The only thing in that dialogue was calling a player annoying. Then muting them. It resulted in a 10 game chat ban.
The system does not punish for one time offenses, or offenses found far and inbetween. If it truly was just the word 'annoying' that flagged you, than more likely than not, you've been a minor nuisance in enough games for that game to be the tipping point for the system to politely tell you "Hey, wind it back a little." Just because it's minor, doesn't mean it's allowable when done enough times. If the system flagged for one time offenses of minor words, than I should've absolutely been punished when I lost my temper and called someone the C-word for a woman's hole in game. But I hadn't. Maybe it's because no one reported me for it, but that offense is far and wide an outlier to my typical behavior.
Cynosis (NA)
: dont trust china, China is asshole.
: It's not necessarily untrue though. Games that are incredibly quick paced with super high damage, and low TTKs are extremely popular in the internet cafe culture of China. China also has the largest player base, and is likely where LoL makes the majority of its revenue. These things cannot be overlooked, or just ignored when discussing the state of the game.
It's not "untrue" but it's not "True" either. It's pure speculation and prejudiced thoughts about an entire region of players. How is blaming an entire section of the playerbase have anything to do with discussing the state of the game? So you can blame them more for it? God forbid the state of the game be because people everywhere complained that games were too long, and then the game time was lowered. But that's as much speculation with as much founding as "Asian computer pcs are to blame!"
: Yeh, better, right.... what you really mean here is your team comp has more DAMAGEZ. More Damagez = more skill right? Cause tower goes down 8 seconds after bot lane gets insta gibbed by double assassin/diver. Basically the "better" team = the team with the most champions getting skins pumped out every month.
: Soon as China stops being the problem.
Abusive government? Hell yeah, blame away. Blaming an entire population of players because folk just don't the current state of League? That's just whiny blame throwing.
: "Because unlike Laners, Junglers exist in a place that is constantly vulnerable to invades". 1. The laners are constantly vulnerable to junglers invading their lane. Also, the laners are constantly in an adversarial competition with their opponent, whereas the two junglers in the game don't interact with eachother nearly as much as laners do with other laners. The jungle is no where near as competitive as the lanes. "Being put behind by a single invade, or multiple, creates an even further snowball effect where you can't farm jungle, can't gank because you're behind, and can't get contest objectives." 2. No, being put behind by one invade doesn't ruin the game for you, so you're exagerating greatly. Secondly, the jungler can't farm both sides of the map at once, and you can go to the other side of the map or gank if he invades one side; he/she would have to walk between your two mid towers to chase after you. Also, you can gank, also you can invade his jungle on the opposite side. When you fall behind in lane, most match ups don't allow you to cs without being chunked or killed, because your opponent is always in your face. In the jungle that is not the case. Also, you totally can contest objectives. When I play Jax/Shyv jungle, I get the rift herald when I see the enemy jungler gank bot or invade my bot side jungle. You're just unabashedly exagerating how hard it is to be a jungler with a bunch of false conjecture. Also, here is my favourite part: being put behind means you can't gank. Yes, you should be punished when you get outplayed by your opponent. Holy shit.
Laners have the option to play safe and sit back by turret, and only need to worry about warding one or two paths into their lane. Junglers are constantly on the move, and can't reliably cover all their jungler's entrances, especially against some of the more mobile junglers. And yes, while laners face constant interaction with their opponent, catch EXP is not relevant 24/7 in every game. It's for those cases where junglers are put behind. For when you are having a bad time. For some junglers, one gank is all they need to get rolling and continue to harass you in your jungler. Others sometimes not. Catch XP is far less relevant than you seem to believe it to be, and is only in those extreme cases when it has the most effect, the cases which i mention in my original post. And no, you should not be dead in the water from your one team contribution just because you got 'outplayed'. As said, there's too forgiving, and there's too unforgiving. Both are bad. Punished means, you're behind and need to play safer, but it's considerably harder to play safer in jungle than lane, by it's very nature of 'No turret'.
: Why are people against reoving catch up xp for junglers?
Because unlike Laners, Junglers exist in a place that is constantly vulnerable to invades (Can't play safe near turret to avoid ganks like laners), have to wait on respawn timers instead of minion waves, and are responsible for multiple lanes ontop of that. Being put behind by a single invade, or multiple, creates an even further snowball effect where you can't farm jungle, can't gank because you're behind, and can't get contest objectives. There's a line between too forgiving and too unforgiving. "Removing it", is not an option, though you'd be far better received if you think it could be lowered.
: > [{quoted}](name=Morgana Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XUEFeAMQ,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-05T08:39:26.396+0000) > I'm just really sick and tired of this call of duty overwatch trash the game has become years ago a great many people wanted faster less coinflip games. as for some reason those 40-60 min even matched back and forth games were to long. so over the years riot made changes.. more gold,more exp,more damage,more mobility,less point and click skills. nerfed stall tactics/waveclear,weaker towers,more impact via weak teammate vs strong. and early objectives that give so much power that create massive snowballs. was the only way riot could think of to give people what they wanted.fast games less comebacks. this **is** what the people wanted! right? fast and decisive super competitive flashy game. thing is a fast decisive competitive game and fun games are often times polar opposites.. but now that the short flashy games are here, it will stay like this forever... its what china wants
People really gotta stop blaming everything on China.
: that's how long it takes the game to end, not how long it takes to win just back when first tower blood was introduced, the team that got it had like a 73% chance of winning and it has only gotten higher since then
A rioter actually talked about this once, on the boards funnily, but you're working backwards with your logic. It's not that the Team who gets first tower is more likely to win the game, it's that the team more likely to win the game is the team that gets first tower first. Because you obviously have to be better in some aspect to get first tower. First tower is a sympton of the better team, not the other way around.
: > Alright, feels like I'm talking to a brick wall I share that feeling. It feels like you are just repeating your arguments instead of engaging with my counter arguments > Every other Battle mage in the game is also not a support. Which is not an argument. There wasn't an an assassin who is also a support until Pyke. Tha past gives us clues about the future, but doesn't define it, otherwise you could throw out the word "innovation" completely. > You want her to be a battlemage, but you also want her to have big heals with her RQ, damage amping/reduction with her W, and big ass shields that also do damage. Replace the "and" with an "or" and you got it. The trick to making a battlemage/enchanter work is giving her supportive tools, that if used on herself make for a reasonable battlemage. Decision making, is what I am getting at. You seem to pretend like all her spells are there all the time on everyone, which is something I get frustrated by. You appear like a bright guy, but you circumvent that counter completely. I even adressed that argument in my comment before and you ignored it... > ESPECIALLY NOT, when you can get giant ass heals, by investing literally zero stats into healing. First, it doesn't have to be a "giant ass" heal, but an emergency heal, that costs Karma two spells. The AP scaling on her heal is also there for a reason, if you think it isn't enough, crank it up. But as you can't seem to not get hung up on values, I don't know what to tell you. You could try and be productive and suggest workable values, you know? Just telling me "the heal is too much" is just destructive in nature. It honestly confuses me that you are the same guy who quoted this line _"Players are good at spotting problems. They're not so good at solving those problems."_ It appeared to me you - out of all people in this thread - should be more willing to work on solutions, instead of repeatedly highlighting what you dislike and leaving it at that. > If you can't, you've run into the same problem that Riot has had with Karma. Well, they tried making her a disruptor, artillery burstmage too. If I run into the same problem, I at least run into it with less force, lol. > Your rework does not choose a side, and tries to accomplish both without any regard for power budget, or focused gameplay. That is either phrased poorly or a lie. I don't get how you can be a moderator with that aggressive style of phrasing things. You repeatedly seem to present your opinion as a fact. No room for compromise. No valuing creativity. Not engaging in ideas. I am having a ton of great conversations, even and especially with people I disagree on fundamental levels, they all bring in their constructive viewpoints and suggestions, but this one is the least productive discussion I have had this time around. It feels like a very exhaustive way of saying _"I don't like tank Karma, any similarities to something like it should be destroyed and I don't think a Battlemage/Enchanter hybrid can ever work"_.
I was going to just end my contribution with my final point, but this one thing has to be pointed out. > Which is not an argument. There wasn't an an assassin who is also a support until Pyke. Pyke is a support whose also an assassin. And he was nerfed out of all his solo roles (I unno completely about Jungle), because he was a Support first, assassin second. Your Karma is as you've said, entirely a battle mage who can be supportive but she is not a hybrid. The way she supports is not naturally done like Pyke's, who supports via picks and assassination. You can't be a Support like Pyke without playing like an assassin. For Karma to be a Hybrid support Battlemage, her supporting needs to be done via her ability to battlemage, not via her ability to ALSO be a support. Because read your own mantra abilities, all of them scream "I am a support", not a battle mage. You've just thought up situations where Karma can use her own support abilities for herself. The best example of this done right, is Brigitte from Overwatch. She heals her teammates by being a frontline disrupter, wacking people with her base attack to heal allies. The only way she heals, outside her on-CD armor pack, is by doing her job as a disrupter. Why I say that Karma is a Battlemage AND a support, is that her ability to help teammates is not entwined with her ability to Battlemage. At any point during mid-to-late game, you can sit in the back line, and just become a support. You can not do your job as a healer without also being a disrupter as Brigitte. You can be a support without being a battlemage as your Karma. This is the problem you need to fix. If you want a supportive battlemage, fine, but you need to understand that your concept for Karma allows you to be BOTH a support and battlemage. Not a Battlemage-Support/Support-Battlemage. The reason this isn't 'productive', is because I'm not backing down on a fundamental design flaw. For criticism to be productive, you need to learn to accept it, but unlike everyone else in this thread, I am near the only one disagreeing with you on a base level why this kit has problems. And yet you hand-wave them off because "She's a battlemage", like that waves off all the problems you refuse to see.
: > If you're going tank Karma, you shouldn't have access to a big ass heal. First, I do want a heal that does not reward you for building straight up health, like the current one does. Secondly.... the heal is why Karma can be built tanky in the first place? What do you mean she shouldn't have it when the build plays around exactly that aspect of her kit? > I'm coming from the pure standpoint that Tank and Bruiser Karma builds are inherently bad. Which is why I fight for a more healthy version of it. You apparantly hate it too much to consider _any_ version of it, but I honestly just try to get the community together. Go tell the tank Karma players why they shouldn't exist, I am here trying to make them join the battlemage side. > What I'm getting at here is that you're giving a gigantic amount of value of effective healing and/or damage just by Karma being low health. You can make the scaling as strong or weak as you like, but I only see you arguing against the HIGH values, not the princpiple itself. Both heals work off of AP and healing items, while only indirectly rewarding building defensively. This tells me they should be workable in any style Karma is played. Which is my goal. > Consider that a burst-healy, damage enhancing, shield-bursting, damage reductioning with constant access to her passive champion shouldn't also have the benefit of being extremely hard to kill constantly. You are listing mantra abilities as if they aren't excluding one another. As if they had no cooldown. I don't think that's honest. The drawbacks is reduced poke and CC in favour for more sustain and sustained damage. The machinegun mantra also needs to go, it gurgles up so much power. > You're still missing the fact that her passive reseting on taking damage is inherently bad You seem to be convinced that the passive should be balanced around being up every 15s, instead of being balanced around having it mainly in fights? Why? > By going tankier, by going more damage over support, based on your kits design, all your abilities are being used on yourself to kill enemies. That's way different than Karma having to choose between herself and an ally. What are you talking about? The abilities do NOT have to be used on yourself or anyone, based on your build. You can protect your allies while being tanky and you can shield yourself while being squishy. You can shield your carry with RE against an assassin or you could RE your bruiser no matter what build you have. > Values make or break a kit. (...) I don't think you can make your enhanced W valuable enough without it being broken. My point was that you jumped at the number instead of the concept. You could've said you think damage enhancment/reduction has no place in league, as percentage increasing other kits can break the game, And/or that they are hard to convey visually. You don't need a whole paragraph condeming my values to say that. In fact, you don't need to talk about my values at all. > Both Vlad, Swain, Galio and Sylas require themselves to be in melee range for max damage First, Galio is a warden and Sylas is a Burstmage/Skirmisher, secondly I don't see how Vlad, Rumbles or Swain's ranges are that different from what I propose for Karma. Besides, other battlemages, like Malz, Sol or Taliyah don't have to facehug people either. Karma is, however, motivated by her RQ to be close up, to have her heal hit enemy and herself (at least at the second instance), her AA wants her to be close all the time and the only way to guarantee the full W damage will be while being close too. > Look at Rakan, his Q damages and then heals, but that's fine because one. Yes, I look at Rakan, I see dashes, groupcharms and knockups. I look at Karma and I see none. Yay, tradeoffs!
Alright, feels like I'm talking to a brick wall, but I'm going to leave you with this final criticism. Whether you accept it or not is completely up to you. Every other Battle mage in the game is also not a support. Vlad's the closest to having any form of having team utility out of just CC'ing people, and that's with the damage amp on his ult. If you want Karma to move towards Battlemagery, then you can't also have her be an amazing team support champion. Her having no hard CC doesn't matter, and I'll point you towards Old Mordekaiser for how much he needed CC whenever he was viable. That's the main problem with your design. You want her to be a battlemage, but you also want her to have big heals with her RQ, damage amping/reduction with her W, and big ass shields that also do damage. That's why I am vehemently against Solo-lane Karma in your version of her. Having that much team utility does not, and should not, go on a solo lane champion, having CC or not. ESPECIALLY NOT, when you can get giant ass heals, by investing literally zero stats into healing. Support or Battlemage, choose one. If you can't, you've run into the same problem that Riot has had with Karma. There are plenty of people who view her as a support mage, and plenty that view her as a solo laner. Your rework does not choose a side, and tries to accomplish both without any regard for power budget, or focused gameplay. You either need to make her shielding more selfish and healing more selfish (aka her heals and shields are only for herself) or you need to make her a support. You do not get both.
: Is that a good enough reason simply to write off all fan solutions? Is it a good enough reason not to analyze Riot's changes and say, "Well this change would have been better for x and x and x reasons"? Yes fans can be wrong, and they are a lot, but if you always hand your entire trust off to devs they'll have no pressure to preform well, and you'll end up with just as unbalanced a game as if the devs just listened to the fans. Both can be wrong and let's be real Magic ain't all that balanced either, and they've let plenty cards run rampant. Gotta love Siege Rhino eh? In league we have updates every 2 weeks and a lot more room to experiment with changes. Find a fan change that could work? Implement it and see if it works. If it doesn't you actually _can_ revert it shockingly. The idea that Riot's changes work as anything more than experimental is just outright false as well. Yes they think them through a bit more usually than the typical player, but the outcomes end up being just as questionable.
Never said they should write them off, I'm just saying that "Better changes the community provides", isn't exactly a qualifying statement for what should be pushed as a solution. I see the sentiment a lot on the boards, where people like to think that a solution someone provides is going to instantly work, and then off-handily insult the balance team for not being able to think of it. And I disagree that just because something could 'work' then they should give it a try. Once you get past how cool and shiny SilverSquid's rework looks, you can see a lot of issues that are apparent, plenty which I point out in my own post. You can see that SilverSquid's vision for Karma is a tankier battlemage, which may be fine for the older fans of Karma, but is a complete outing for fans who like and enjoy the current version. "Just give it a try" does not bypass something's faults that are glaringly obvious. Not every change a designer thinks of will be prototyped, plenty gets left on the paper stage of design, and they don't need to prototype something to know it won't work.
: > I don't think a lot of thought is spared for how Top Lane Karma would become with this sort of rework. You would be wrong tho. I do think about all of her aspects a lot, even jungle. The point of the heal is to be useful when building tank (top), when building AP (mid) and when defending allies, because you either AA more safely, with more impact or more often. Compared to today's heal, which scales with pure tankstats and does next to nothing to for squishy Karmas. > which encourages her to stay low health Is that a problem in itself? I doubt having a support on low hp is an easy risk to be taken, but if you can pull it off, you should be rewarded imo. Also the low-hp scaling is in fact there, so that bruiser Karma does get some natural damage and more reasonable healing, Instead of being a nearly exclusive healbot top. > On top of that, I notice you choose to favor those low health increased damage/increased healing/etc in favor of actual scalings, since her stuff seems pretty low all things considered. Her passive has an AP scaling now, her Q and W have the same scalings as today and mantra has additional/comparable damage on all options. Overall she seems to have equal or slightly higher AP scaling... so I don't know what your point is. > Hard to kill, while completely decimating with her team that she can get behind. I am trying to create a kind of mage bruiser here, of course she is hard to kill. But she has no hard engage and no CC, to balance this out. I'm not turning her into a second Leona or sth. More like a supportive Vlad. > take out the increased damage from low health. I feel like this is just a nostalgia addition for old Karma without any real consideration for why it was removed. You mean there's another reason they removed it other than trying to turn her from a supportive battlemage to a supportive burst mage mid? Because I don't remember reading any. > I think that it should be relegated to allied spell casts reducing it. Would have no use in sololanes tho. I want to avoid pushing Karma into either role out of respect for all her fans. > with your designated kit, her enhanced abilities overwhelmingly favor being in the support position, with maybe exception to her shield. You can't be telling me I am adding too much power to sololane (tank) Karma and then at the same time telling me I push her too much into support??? > Without any AP, Karma hitting a 50% target with both instances of her enhanced Q is a 750 health heal. Putting aside that you are talking about values, which I explicitly asked not to do, do you really think spending an ultimate to heal someone for 2x 350 is too much? At lvl16? And just be assured that my goal is to make Karma the opposite of a top off machine, which is why I think any of her heals need to be scaled to be only worth it at low hp. And not scale with max hp. And not have the mantra up every 5 seconds. That's BS too. > 40% increased, hell, even just 30% increased damage from all sources can do to anything, while also giving things huge damage reduction. Again with the values... you trip over them all the time. Just imagine it being a 20% value and having a cap or sth. Would that work for you? > It honestly sounds better on a bruiser/skirmisher champion It's almost as if I'm trying to make Karma a supportive mage bruiser and/or battlemage... > you can't have both damage and support features on every ability. Why not? > "Karma gains stacks of Peace/Retribution depending on what aspect of the Twin Dragon she's in. Karma gains increased healing and shielding power by consuming stacks of Retribution while in Peace form, and gains increased damage scaling when consuming stacks of Peace in Retribution form." Bit convoluted, but I tried similar things before. The problem is that it needs to be solved visually, which is kinda hard. Switching between stances would replace mantra and make things like shieldbomb impossible. Judging from everything I've learned from the community, that is not what people like.
> 1st Quip If you're going tank Karma, you shouldn't have access to a big ass heal. It's called trade offs, not every Karma build should have the strength and power of every other Karma build. That's called being overloaded. > 2nd Quip I'm coming from the pure standpoint that Tank and Bruiser Karma builds are inherently bad. Unlike Vlad, Swain and Galio, Karma's ability to bruiser/tank is based purely on the abuse of her abilities against most melee top laners, and less so an inherent design. It is inherently one sided as of now, and by giving her increased damage on her own low health, along with constant healing and damage with her passive autos (Which in all intents and purpose is constant by the basis of getting hit in a fight), will only continue to become one-sided by allowing Karma to go tank, and gain damage and healing for effectively zero-stat investment. > 3rd Quip What I'm getting at here is that you're giving a **gigantic** amount of value of effective healing and/or damage just by Karma being low health. I'm talking about her healing increased by missing health percentage, damage increase by percentage. These enhanced part of the abilities + passive are far too powerful, even outdoing some actual ults with their effectiveness, yet Karma has access to 3 of them. They're just too powerful and will give too much power for **free** for tank builds. > 4th Quip Consider that a burst-healy, damage enhancing, shield-bursting, damage reductioning with constant access to her passive champion shouldn't also have the benefit of being extremely hard to kill constantly. This is called being overloaded, and overpowered. You're giving her too powerful tools without any of the drawbacks. She's not melee, she's ranged. Going tankier gives her a lot of effective value for free. You're not giving her enough drawbacks to allow her to be this tanky. No CC or Hard engage means very little when other champions can fulfill that role for her, not to mention having to lane against her. > 6th Quip It was just a suggestion. You're still missing the fact that her passive reseting on taking damage is inherently bad, and would turn literally any fight with her into her being able to have her passive on her autos constantly. It's called down-time, and her passive has no down-time at all unless your opponent decides to never fight you. The reason why I said ally casts is because her having access to her passive 24/7 in a solo lane, is bad, but having it more often in a 2v2 lane is better, because Karma could actually use those passive procs more often, in a fairer setting. > 7th Quip That's not what I said at all. What I said is that all your enhanced effects are naturally more supportive, based on how they work. Which is why I offered the balancing lever of casting spells on allies. If you go solo-lane, you should not have the same supportive ability as you would in the support role as a solo-laner. It's called "Trade offs". By going tankier, by going more damage over support, based on your kits design, all your abilities are being used on yourself to kill enemies. That's way different than Karma having to choose between herself and an ally. > 9th Quip Values make or break a kit. If something isn't powerful enough to be used, then there won't be any reason to use it, the same problem we see with Karma right now where she hardly ever uses her enhanced W unless she's top tank-karma against Melees. Same reason most constantly spam enhanced Q. Just because there is a number, doesn't mean the number can be balanced. Very often it falls in the cracks of "It's either got to be broken to be chosen, or it's never chosen." I don't think you can make your enhanced W valuable enough without it being broken. > 10th Quip Once again, trade offs are what make Battlemages. Both Vlad, Swain, Galio and Sylas require themselves to be in melee range for max damage, with their kits set up in how they can get themselves into that range. Karma may be ranged like Swain and Vlad, but she has zero incentive to ever be in melee range. Because of that fact, she does not need to be tanky unless you fully revamp her gameplay pattern to be considerably closer range. You're overloading her. > 11th Quip This is purely my own design philosophy, but it's as I've said before, there is no trade off in your version of Karma to allow it. Look at Rakan, his Q damages and then heals, but that's fine because one.) They can dodge the damage and therefore the heal and 2.) The heal's value isn't comparable to other healers whose strengths are focused around healing. Your Karma has no trade offs, she does too much with too little investment into it.
: The sad thing is it feels like the more and better changes the community provides the less riot is likely to use these as their changes. It feels like riot never takes these notes from the community no matter how good they are. I love the ideas tho and I would love to play this version of Karma.
To quote Mark Rosewater, long time designer of MTG: "Players are good at spotting problems. They're not so good at solving those problems." Just because something looks good, doesn't mean it doesn't have problems you just can't see.
: Karma - Forever a Divided Community?
Aside the fact that I personally think the rework to be a tad overloaded, I don't think a lot of thought is spared for how Top Lane Karma would become with this sort of rework. For example, her passive would synergize with a tank Karma far too well because of being able to be low health longer, therefore getting more damage out of her passive, and more healing. Combined with the fact that you can constantly recharge it via getting hit, and getting hit becomes encouraged, and Tank Karma will see more value from it consistently than any Support/Mage Karma. The obvious simple change is just not let it constantly reset from taking damage, but the same exact problem is found with her shield, which encourages her to stay low health (Which is better when being tankier) and rewards you with more damage for being so. I think this is the exact same problem people had about Irelia's old stun. It punishes you for winning, and while it may not be a bad mechanic, it certainly feels bad for the receiving end. On top of that, I notice you choose to favor those low health increased damage/increased healing/etc in favor of actual scalings, since her stuff seems pretty low all things considered. That's not bad, but it makes her scale extremely well with her base stats alone, further encouraging Tank Karma builds. Combine that with a damage amp on her tethers, and it becomes real nasty real quick. Hard to kill, while completely decimating with her team that she can get behind. I know I'm awfully focused on Tank Karma, but it's my honest opinion that Tank Karma is an atrocious, disgusting thing and should not allowed to be viable in the slightest. Especially in Top lane. The removal of her CC remedies that issue a tad bit, but not enough to excuse constant heals from her passive, and absurd health scalings on her shield bomb. If I had to give reccomendations as to the proposed kit it'd be: * Give her passive an actual CD. No insta-refresh from taking hits. That may sound kinda-okay for a squishier Karma, but Tank Karma will abuse this to it's fullest. Also take out the increased damage from low health. I feel like this is just a nostalgia addition for old Karma without any real consideration for why it was removed. In return, I do think Gathering Fire should be something that should come up faster, but I think that it should be relegated to allied spell casts reducing it. Everytime you cast a spell on an ally/an ally is affected by your spell for the first time, reduce the CD by x seconds or so. Why? Because with your designated kit, her enhanced abilities overwhelmingly favor being in the support position, with maybe exception to her shield. I think it'd be a fine lever for balancing between Support Karma and Solo Lane Karma. It also transitions her nicely from lane power, to teamfight power. * Give her some actual scalings, and give the percentage increases to her abilities a cap, or just remove them. Without any AP, Karma hitting a 50% target with both instances of her enhanced Q is a 750 health heal. That is *absurd*. Soraka and Yuumi have those enhanced healing effects on their kits to encourage playing riskier for that enhanced heal, or to stop them from being top-off machines (though less so for Soraka's ult). Karma has too many additional tools other than her heal for this to stay. I think this the same with the Shield bomb and passive increased percentages, especially since a 60% ratio on shield isn't anything to scoff at. * Rethink a new effect for RW. I'm not one to call things damage creep, but jesus you have no idea what 40% increased, hell, even just 30% increased damage from all sources can do to anything, while also giving things huge damage reduction. That said I do enjoy the idea of tethering allies and enemies, but I'll point back towards when this mechanic was tested by Riot. You're not going to be able to control your allies, and what could be a vital tether could be ruined because your tank/bruiser backed off. Tethering enemies together would be kinda fun though. I think something akin to Trinity's tether from Warframe would be cool, where you potentially share damage taken by the enemy, or even CCm but that'd need some major rebalancing to fit that kinda power into a kit. It honestly sounds better on a bruiser/skirmisher champion, who need that kinda powerful defense at melee range. ____________________________________________________________________ I think some of the ideas are fine honestly, but I think Karma would be better off if she didn't have such heightened effects on her abilities with Mantra. I think the duality nature is great, but you can't have both damage and support features on every ability. I think lowering Mantra's CD to a form change would be far more balance-able, along with her being able to switch from more damagey effects to more supporty effects per switch. Add in some form of Karmic exchange too like: "Karma gains stacks of Peace/Retribution depending on what aspect of the Twin Dragon she's in. Karma gains increased healing and shielding power by consuming stacks of Retribution while in Peace form, and gains increased damage scaling when consuming stacks of Peace in Retribution form." Encourage constant switching of her stances between her supporting allies and dealing out some pain. This i feel would be able to make a flexible champion who gains bonuses from both helping teammates survive, and helping kill enemies. Edit: I read Hupsis's thing, and I love his idea. The idea of switching stances to build up stacks that help the other form, would be hella cool to go along a unique resource bar, filling up per spellcast to allow for some feature. Maybe it resets her CDs to keep that momentum moving, maybe an enhanced effect, who knows who knows.
: Next time you do URF, don't make it Blind Pick.
Ah yes, counterpicking in URF. Now the tryhards can counterpick my fun picks to win.
: That link seems to be expired for me. Can I get a new one?
> [{quoted}](name=Big Metal Dino,realm=NA,application-id=jxzFAe03,discussion-id=fwmeJIvb,comment-id=0032,timestamp=2019-11-01T05:18:28.371+0000) > > That link seems to be expired for me. Can I get a new one? https://discord.gg/hpurvK My bad, here's a longer link. Like said with Neeko, message the Azir and he'll set you up.
: > [{quoted}](name=Trias000,realm=EUNE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=qyugX23d,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-31T13:23:44.452+0000) > > The real reason we shouldn't worry about Senna is that... she's not even out yet! > For all we know, she could be super overpowered, or weak as fuck. Just seeing what her abilities do won't tell us that if we don't even know her stats. > > I remember when people cried about Fiora when she was about to get reworked: "she has guaranteed crits ermagherd!". They didn't even bother to read the full description of her E. Someone said "guaranteed crit" and all hell broke loose. you also remember when every rework/new release was basically instantly pick/ban in proplay or soloqueue or anywhere for the past year or 2? don't blame people for being skeptical about it, it's not like riot actually knows how to nerf a champion thats clearly broken on release, they pussyfoot around it for a while, so everyone still has to deal with it. it's only when they're weak that they get buffed instantly. or when the champ hasn't been properly tested yet. yuumi is a good example akali is still walking circles around so many champs and she's been nerfed like 5 times and had probrably 5 different things stripped from her kit. imagine what she was like on release if the players were as good on her back then as they are now. senna has to begin that process soon, and i can't wait for the roller coaster. i hope she turns out OK and doesn't require much, since i kinda want to play this champion.
> it's not like riot actually knows how to nerf a champion thats clearly broken on release, they pussyfoot around it for a while, so everyone still has to deal with it. If people want Riot to hold off on buffs for new champions for a while, because the playerbase just needs to learn and become adjusted to a new champion, than the same should be true for nerfs, sometimes the playerbase just needs to learn how to play against them. Not always true, of course, but something I think that should be considered.
musixxal (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ýisus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v89ovJZp,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-31T11:40:39.871+0000) > > just shows the design flaws that many of the newer / reworked champions have. it is what it is. older champions much stronger in urf than the new releases.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=jxzFAe03,discussion-id=fwmeJIvb,comment-id=00310000,timestamp=2019-10-31T00:05:02.006+0000) > > https://discord.gg/FxduCb > > Yeet, I think Neeko is open uhhh, how do i interact in the server?? it's kinda blocking me from doing anything lol .
> [{quoted}](name=Våståýån Nëëkø,realm=NA,application-id=jxzFAe03,discussion-id=fwmeJIvb,comment-id=003100000000,timestamp=2019-10-31T19:13:07.250+0000) > > uhhh, how do i interact in the server?? it's kinda blocking me from doing anything lol . Oh, uhhhhh, sorry, despite my name I'm not that active on this channel anymore. Uhhhhh, message the green name called Azir in DMs i think, he should do ya right.
: Hey if this is still active, could rejoin as Cho’gath? My discord is Salt#5887
> [{quoted}](name=Big Metal Dino,realm=NA,application-id=jxzFAe03,discussion-id=fwmeJIvb,comment-id=0030,timestamp=2019-10-30T03:38:31.681+0000) > > Hey if this is still active, could rejoin as Cho’gath? > > My discord is Salt#5887 https://discord.gg/FxduCb Yeet and I think Cho'gath is
: ^^ Basically what he/she said, and if it is. I'd like to join as Neeko. Discord ~ beautylicious . ♡#2564
> [{quoted}](name=Våståýån Nëëkø,realm=NA,application-id=jxzFAe03,discussion-id=fwmeJIvb,comment-id=0031,timestamp=2019-10-30T14:21:20.943+0000) > > ^^ Basically what he/she said, and if it is. > > I'd like to join as Neeko. > > Discord ~ beautylicious . ♡#2564 https://discord.gg/FxduCb Yeet, I think Neeko is open
musixxal (EUW)
: as expected, riot really need to stop catering to accounts who don't even like the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6xZbwTK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-28T01:54:18.031+0000) > > Yeah you'd think 'events' would be rewarding and encouraging to play > > but instead prestige skins are paid for instead of earned which kinda sucks Prestige wasnt supposed to be free. It was supposed to represent "VIP" skin and give off "I'm a rich whale" vibe. Now they are generous enough to allow us to buy the pass and grind for it which is cheaper but more time consuming because IIRC you could only get them using prestige tickets which you get from spending shitload of money. Like it used to be more than $100+ but now you just need to buy the pass and grind which costs $10?
Not even mentioning that the pass itself is getting more and more value. We got two gemstones from this World's pass, which boosted me to my 10th ones, while I also got a SG Ahri skin shard from one of the orbs.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q6xZbwTK,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-28T02:24:00.370+0000) > > i mean odyssey extract was probably the best event > > it was fun and well done and you could earn decent rewards for it > > > and i think the box limit is mostly so people don't spend days without breaks grinding them which is fine, gives down time > > though even if the rewards are earned and free thats generally why events aren't done one after the other after the other > not every champion release should come with a event > not every skin group that comes out needs an event to monetize > they really should slow down on the evens so that they can make better events with quality rewards because i know for sure chromas of a skin i don't have and don't care for isn't a reward > Little legend eggs for playing league of legends is not satisfying despite season two looking better than series 1 they shouldn't sync up like this they should have separate things That is not the reason why they add cooldowns. It's done to prevent people from getting them whenever they want, to incentivize them to buy one. Saying "It's to reduce grinding without breaks" is stupid. The whole point of all this is to get people to get hooked into the game, if people were grinding out those boxes, they'd **love** it. Just like any other company, they want money. Tencent even fabricated the odds for lootboxes on COD Mobile, they'd do anything to get people to pay up. Because even if they do earn 100 boxes, they still need to earn keys.
> Just like any other company, they want money. This is the stupidest statement I continue to see. Yeah, they're a fucking company, making some money is what allows them to, you know, continue existing. To expand and make more and better content. To be able to afford giving out free things, because it nets them more money in the long run. That's literally the point of free samples and sales, it's always been about net income. It's actually absurd seeing your comments in this thread, complaining about that you're not able to earn more free stuff than you can already get. "Oh they lock chests behind a timer", it's almost like it's because you're not entitled to chests. That there's a gate to how much free content you can get from a FREE to play game. Your statement about old games being optional to buy skins but you could earn them, only works when you buy the game itself. Your OP is literally "Make all events like this with big free stuff for us!" ruling out the fact that the rewards are only this good, because it's the 10th anniversary.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=00040000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-27T21:39:46.578+0000) > > I mean, the guy said nothing about events, i thought we were just talking about normal systems, that's pretty easy to infer, since it was brought up earlier in the conversation, if you pay any attention > > You people keep working backwards with your logic. You see gamemodes that get quests, rewards and loot and think "Well of course they're popular, they're getting events." You don't stop to think that the reason they get events, is because they're already popular, not the other way around. You move and work according to the majority of the playerbase. so you're saying it would take vast amounts of work to make missions/daily's work on twisted treeline?
No, implementing missions/daily work is easy. It's just not going to do crap to make TT any more popular than it is. If the only reason people play something is to be rewarded, than that thing is flawed. The hard, vast amount of work is completely reduxing the gamemode to a state where it'd actually be appealing to more people and not just "Shittier Summoner rift"
gileskd (NA)
: "I mean, the guy said nothing about events" > [{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-27T12:11:07.024+0000) > > There's probably a considerable segment that would play two matches of 3v3 every day if similar rewards program and something like the stupid egg cosmetics where added. ------ > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-10-27T19:20:48.888+0000) > > Imagine SR and ARAM having the same fucking rewards to encourage players to play those modes while discouraging them from playing TT at the same time. > > {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
The topic was on the TFT prize structure, which i described in my original post, was just a normal system similar to SR's BE/EXP system. No one was talking about events or missions.
gileskd (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=00040000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-27T21:39:46.578+0000) > You people keep working backwards with your logic. You see gamemodes that get quests, rewards and loot and think "Well of course they're popular, they're getting events." You don't stop to think that the reason they get events, is because they're already popular, not the other way around. You move and work according to the majority of the playerbase. " all I see is 2 kids in a room, one is named summoners rift, they have the best clothes, best toys, and get all the attention. one is named twisted treeline, they are dressed in rags, has very little/broken toys, and gets no attention. How about some EQUALITY huh? give twisted treeline some attention, give them some love, give em both the same DAMN THING!
Terrible metaphor. Here's a better one. There are three parks, Summoner's Rift, ARAM and Twisted Treeline. Quality wise, TT and SR are of the same standard. They both look good and they both have cool jungle gyms. The only real difference is that TT is a smaller park, with different walk ways around, and a few different landmarks inside. Meanwhile ARAM is a skate-park, a wholly different park than the others, providing a much different experience. Yet despite their similarities, more people attend Summoner's Park. Why? Because more people like Summoner's Park jungle gym, it's just simply better. Because Summoner's Park is more popular, more people host events there, it becomes a better venue. TT on the other hand, has a comparatively worse jungle gym, or more people prefer SR over TT. By all means, the Jungle Gym in TT was pristine, it wasn't out of date. Summoner's Park jungle gym was just better. It doesn't matter if TT got more upkeep to keep the park nice, because no one was going their in the first place but a handful of people. The reason TT never got visitors, isn't because it was run-down or unattended, it was because no one liked the jungle gym. Summoner's Park jungle gym was just better. So the only way you get people to visit TT, is to change the jungle gym in it's entirety. To drastically change it, even if it means the people who previously enjoyed the old jungle gym might not like or recognize it anymore. This is the fundamental problem that you people refuse to realize. Upkeep does not guarantee popularity, nor do events or missions. They spike popularity, but do not retain a fan base.
gileskd (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-10-27T19:26:42.099+0000) > > SR, ARAM and TT all gave EXP/BE/IP, so I don't see your point here. How does all of them sharing the same currency/EXP system discourage folk from playing TT I don't know, maybe all of this discourages this, or encourages other game modes more "summoners rift only" "as a team kill 4 dragons" "as a team kill baron twice" or maybe its them only patching the game mode, what every 2 years? or maybe its the mastery tokens that are only "unlockable" in SR
I mean, the guy said nothing about events, i thought we were just talking about normal systems, since TFT's normal system is their loot, while SR/TT/ARAM is BE/EXP. And those events aren't to 'encourage people to play those modes', they're just the two most played gamemodes that everyone enjoys. You'll notice that with TFT's inclusion, and popularity, they were included in quest rewards too. Why? Because it's popular. You people keep working backwards with your logic. You see gamemodes that get quests, rewards and loot and think "Well of course they're popular, they're getting events." You don't stop to think that the reason they get events, is because they're already popular, not the other way around. You move and work according to the majority of the playerbase. And lastly, ARAM existed in a playable, popular state with healthy queues for years without major updates or balancing. If TT wanted to not be a shittier Summoners Rift and actually stand out, it needed extreme, major changes to map and gameplay, not small events or missions that force you to play a shitty gamemode. And that runs the risk of isolating people who liked what TT currently was. Ya'll are delusional if you think balancing or small events/missions would increase TT's shallow playerbase to sustainable levels OUTSIDE of events and missions. Force people to do it for missions, you get a spike, and then people go back to SR and literally anything else. Never in my life have I ever heard anyone say "Oh I don't play TT because I don't get Mastery Tokens."
Kürama (NA)
: Imagine SR and ARAM having the same fucking rewards to encourage players to play those modes while discouraging them from playing TT at the same time. {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
SR, ARAM and TT all gave EXP/BE/IP, so I don't see your point here. How does all of them sharing the same currency/EXP system discourage folk from playing TT
: I play two matched of TFT every day, just because of the beta rewards
Imagine having to literally reward players to play a gamemode that's existed for years just so it can have a healthy player population. The loot from TFT is there because TFT is an isolated part of League's 'economy', since it doesn't require BE to play, but neither does it give BE and Exp. It's its own system.
: Summoners rift is bigger and would take way more assets.....
Not to mention that Rift's physical properties actually matter when it comes to being able to interact with the terrain. TFT Maps are purely cosmetic, and non-interactable.
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