Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 13
That Karma nerf is a joke, right? It has to be. You literally buffed her because she was weak, undid the buff because she was too strong, then FURTHER nerf her lower than when she originally was up for buffs? And a nerf that more heavily affects solo lane Karma? Solo lane Karma, one of my favorite champs, will be completely and utterly unplayable with that nerf. Since when did Riot switch from "we like champion diversity" to "certain champs are ONLY allowed to support?" Karma was completely viable in 3 separate roles without being overpowered in any of them for YEARS before she was given unnecessary buffs which she is now getting punished for. Support Karma was the go to role, mid Karma was a niche pick for certain players that's strong early to prevent enemy carries from snowballing but weak late, and top Karma is a, albeit frustrating to face, hard to kill tank but brings little CC or engage. The absolute worst thing was that a tiny percentage of players played an annoying but not overpowered build for tank top Karma, but she was FINE design and balance wise. Why destroy something that existing in such balanced equilibrium for so long?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 5
I'm really not a fan of these Leona changes. The changes to Renekton, Cassio, Poppy, Kat, and Kled feel like adding a buff in niche matchups, but Leona feels like a nerf in everything but niche matchups. She's losing far too much to gain so little. There's so few DoT champs that trying to shoehorn-in an existing champion to be a DoT counter feels terrible because now that champion isn't worth picking in the vast majority of games anymore. Leona can already struggle because she needs to get ahead early or be fairly useless late game, but removing .25 seconds from her CC chain, lowering her average tankiness, and reducing teamfight damage will absolutely destroy her winrate outside of dedicated mains. And all that power loss to just go "hey, Brand support is less annoying now" feels like a slap in the face to an already not overly powerful champion. I absolutely love Leona and have tried to find ways to play her outside support so I can play her more often, but these changes just feel like it will make me play her even less. I can't imagine Leona players have been saying "hey, I wish Leona was a DoT champion counter instead of a general-case aggressive tanky engager." Why would you almost entirely change her role in comps just to add a minor niche against an incredibly small percentage of champions? If she was a solo-lane or jungle champion, I would understand adding a niche strength to them to add more to counter-picking and champ diversity, but she's already an engage support. Engage supports, shouldn't be designed to counter mostly solo lane champions that occasionally pop up in bot lane. Engage supports should be designed to engage into the enemy for their team, and everything about this change makes Leona WORSE at doing that. tl;dr - Leona is one of my favorite champs and these proposed changes make absolutely zero sense to me and likely the majority of Leona players. They weaken every single one of her strengths to add a tiny buff in niche cases which feels terrible overall. Please shelve these changes or find a way to give her a niche buff WITHOUT removing all her existing strengths.
: Item Shop Cleanup
I still say that there's a big hole in itemization for AP Assassins that should really be filled. AD Assassins have 3 Lethality items with unique Passives/Actives that help them do their job: {{item:3142}} gives movespeed to roam/chase, {{item:3147}} helps clear vision to be stealthy and burst when you go in, {{item:3814}} gives protection to be able to get a kill without instantly getting stopped. AP Assassins have....nothing. They just leach off of Mage items which just give raw power making them solely rely on their kits rather than having items to supplement their abilities. You can argue {{item:3157}} but that is not unique to assassins in any way, everyone is running around with Stopwatches now so it hardly even matters, and it doesn't actually help assassins get kills but instead live afterwards, meaning it doesn't actually help achieve the kill in the first place. {{item:3146}} is just about the closest thing there is but it's still a weird item since it has AD which only 2 AP assassins care about and it gives healing which is arguably something assassins shouldn't really have. {{item:3100}} is also something that could be argued, but some AP Assassins don't care about auto attacking at all and the mana is wasted on {{champion:55}} and {{champion:84}} (who are already using {{item:3146}} anyway). {{item:3907}} is probably the best candidate to be an actual AP Assassin item giving a burst of AP and Movespeed (things that actually help get in and get a kill), but unlike the AD Assassin item active's that have a short cooldown only, this one requires long buildup of spamming spells and/or waiting near allies (which the assassin probably doesn't want to do), making it extremely unattractive to buy because just buying it still doesn't give you anything when you could just grab {{item:3089}} instead for instant guaranteed power.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 17
No mention of Phase Rush? I can't help but feel that it is extremely underwhelming compared to Stormraider's Surge, which I used on multiple champions. For any burst champions it is about the same difficulty to proc as Stormraider's, but has a much lower movespeed bonus. For poke champions, it's nearly impossible to proc AND has a lower movespeed bonus. My absolute favorite champion to run Stormraider's on was mid lane AD-Caster Varus, but with the severe nerfs to his Q cooldown, the removal of Deathfire Touch (which I felt was weaker than Stormraider's Surge on him), and the change from Stormraider's to Phase Rush, he's both not really viable anymore, but more importantly not even fun if I try to make him viable.
: We're hoping to do a pass on AP itemization sometime in the (hopefully near) future. If the issue with them is build diversity, some suggestions for new/modified items could be useful, if for no other reason than to get some ideas flowing. If those suggestions also included why they'd be good additions to the game, or what problem they address, that would also be very useful.
I know there's a thousand replies to this comment already, but I want to throw in my 2 cents. I'll try to be super brief. This is going to primarily explain some of the issues I have with AP itemization, not what changes I'd like to see to fix the issues, although I'm sure I will put one or two ideas in here. AD champs have far more variation in their items than AP champs, and this doesn't just stem from there being more varieties of AD champs (fighters, skirmishers, divers, bruisers, assassins, marksman, etc.), but from their item pools being much larger. One of my main points became a bit weaker a few patches ago, but for a short time there were 5 items that built from BF Sword: Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster, Essence Reaver, Duskblade, and Guardian Angel. Duskblade no longer does now, but there are still 4. There are only 3 items that build from Needlessly Large Rod: Luden's Echo, Deathcap, and Archangel's Staff. This feels wrong for multiple reasons. First, Archangel's Staff is a **very** niche item built on very few champions, so for most it feels like there are only 2 viable BIG AP items compared to 4 BIG AD items. Second, many AD champs can/will build 1, 2, or 3 (maybe even 4) of these items and can switch up which ones they build and when they build them (Need crit early? build IE first, but it can wait to be second. Want lifesteal? Feels fine to build whenever. Guardian Angel? Totally fine as a 3rd/4th/5th/6th item). Lethality? Duskblade feels fine 1st, 2nd, or 3rd), but Luden's very strictly feels like an early game item and Deathcap is strictly a lategame item. There's no customization for each champion, or the player's style, or each individual game, it's just "if you want AP early, get Luden's, if you want it late, get Deathcap. Those are you only options, and if you switch it order it's actually bad." Third, Deathcap feels terrible to build, will get into that later. Second point: magic penetration. AD champs have 3 sources of flat armor penetration, and 2 separate sources for % armor penetration, PLUS an extra source for % armor shred in Black Cleaver. AP champs have 2 sources of flat magic penetration (and one of them is boots) and 1 source of % magic penetration and kinda-sorta Abyssal Mask, but that isn't as much of a "shred" as Black Cleaver, and is pretty exclusively built by tanks as a support item because mages/assassins don't want to build it while Black Cleaver can be reasonably built by anyone without much sacrifice. Why do AD champs get so much more variety to choose from with different strengths for different situations when AP get shafted? Many AP champs don't even want to get Liandry's Torment for the penetration because the passive is counter-intuitive for burst mages and assassins since it is meant for tank busting. Recommendation: make Haunting Guise have 2 build routes and split Void Staff into 2 items just like with Last Whisper split into Lord Dominick's Regard and Mortal Reminder. Third point: Void Staff and Deathcap feel terrible to build. The new % armor pen items build from a smaller % armor pen item that makes the path feel rewarding, whereas Void Staff builds from pure AP, nothing else. Deathcap also builds from pure AP, but that is more forgivable since the item literally is pure AP, but it could have a mini, 2nd tier item with a weaker version of its passive to help feel better. Both items also suffer from **terrible** combine costs: 1365 for Void Staff, 1265 for Deathcap, although it's almost always a 1700 combine since it's rare to build Deathcap when you have space for all 3 items in inventory. The combine costs are ridiculous for items that are so core to virtually every AP champ, or are least supposed to be core for most. Fourth point: Morellonomicon is too damned good. 100 AP, 400 mana, 20% CDR, mana restore passive, Grievous Wounds passive. Virtually every single mana-based mage builds it at some point because it is so necessary on them, but then it randomly has Grievous Wounds tacked on, make the lives of sustain champions naturally hell because you are virtually guaranteed to be against someone building Morellonomicon. AD champs have to opt into Grievous Wounds, why shouldn't that be true for AP champs? Recommendation: Morellonomicon should lose Grievous Wounds, which should be added into another item somewhere else, and another mana item should rise-up to fill the void of Athene's Unholy Grail so there's diversity in what mana/CDR item mages/assassins want. Mini-point: Banshee's Veil. Maybe it's a minority feeling, but I HATE having every mage have Banshee's Passive without sacrificing much power. Banshee's was nice before because you had to opt into losing offensive power as a trade for defensive power, but now Banshee's is far too good defensively without enough of an offensive sacrifice. Abyssal Scepter was in the same category, and that's why it was changed, but I feel like Banshee's is even worse since it the offensive trade-off is roughly the same, but Banshee's is WAY better defensively. Final point I forgot to shoe-horn in somewhere earlier. AD champions have multiple different stats that differentiate how they play and what items they can build: AD, critical chance, attack speed, flat armor penetration, % armor penetration, lifesteal, cooldown reduction. AP champs have 4, arguably 5: AP, flat magic penetration, % magic penetration, cooldown reduction, arguably mana for a few champs. AP champs *need* more ways to diversify themselves from each other; their kits can't be changed, runes/masteries already diversify every champion, the only option left is items. **Edit Point: ** Forgot a big point. AD assassins have 3 dedicated AD assassin items: Youmuu's Ghost Blade, Duskblade of Draktharr, and Edge of Night. AP assassins....don't really have anything, they're expected to make due with what mage items already exist. Lich Bane is the closest thing to an AP assassin item, but many AP assassin's don't like auto attacking in their combos. Hextech Gunblade is what is currently being used by a few assassins, but it has AD and hybrid sustain, so it feels like an item they're stealing for themselves. An item with an active like Gunblade, but without the AD or sustain would fill the void well. Hextech Protobelt is built on some assassin-like champs such as Diana and Ekko, but it has HP on it since it's meant to be for beefier AP champs to give them mobility. Again, AP assassins stealing other items because they have nothing for themselves. Liandry's Torment is the only non-boot item with flat magic penetration, but its passive is for long teamfights against tanks, so few/no AP assassins want it. They need something. Ok, that wasn't as brief as I planned.....this always happens.
Meddler (NA)
: We've been trying 5s flat at all ranks, rather than 9-5s. Haven't seen feedback from tests myself yet though on that, so not sure if that's looking appropriate or not. Sunlight I think was looking at around a 50% damage increase, with a 1.5s duration. Again though, those aren't necessarily final numbers, but what we're trying right now. Possible the entire approach changes as well, not just the details.
What do I have to do to get Leona to be able to proc Sunlight herself on jungle monsters, even with reduced damage? She's so close to being able to clear fast enough to be a good jungler with her ganking power, but she needs just a little kick in clear speed to not get invaded and lose her jungle all the time. The Q CD may help a bit, but it also destroys her mana at the same time.
Cabruh (NA)
: When you talk assassin items, do you think there will be room for a little more itemization for ap's? Its been something {{champion:245}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:55}} have been asking for a while now. Also, do you consider {{item:3146}} an assassin item now? I usually see ap players build it, so the ad it provides feels a little wasted sometimes.
I was going to ask this question, glad I checked if someone already did. When the assassin rework hit, I was looking forward to finally getting some updates to dedicated assassin items. AD assassins now have a good choice of items to choose from, but AP assassins got literally 0 changes to their itemization. There isn't a single AP assassin item, forcing AP assassins to do their job with just mage items. It honestly feels really bad when you're ahead as an AP assassin, you have 3 or 4 items and you go "hmm, I can either build Void Staff even though the enemy barely has MR, or Banshee's/Zhonya's which are defensive AP items but they're the only AP items left that I can use."
: Check out the pre-season changes!
Why can't we just get details on the changes right now? You've always released a big article detailing the changes before they hit the PBE, but now you're doing a livestream with 2 hours notice? Tons of people, including me, will miss it, but a simple article would be all that's necessary.
: Assassin Roster Update - Katarina
Firstly, as a Katarina main since the first day I started playing League, let me just say that I am *extremely* nervous about Katarina getting updated. The last potential update that was tossed around months ago for her would have made me drop playing her altogether it was so bad and such a drastic change from her current gameplay style and pattern. I hope this is better. Secondly, I am extremely wary of removing ward hopping. I understand the reasoning you give in the initial post, but let me express mine. Katarina may be very mobile with Shunpo, but its only because Shunpo is _targeted only_ mobility and she is allowed to jump to wards. If that ability is removed, she loses extreme amounts of mobility: no (reliable) way to jump walls, no (reliable) ways to chase opponents, no (reliable) way to avoid ganks. Because Shunpo is _targeted only_ mobility in a world where far too many champions have extremely long range/low cooldown/_untargeted_ dashes, Katarina will suffer immensely. If there is no potent compensation to her general mobility, the rework will (in all likelihood) feel terrible to Katarina mains or at worst, feel terrible for all Katarina players. Will she be adequately compensated in mobility via some fashion of untargeted blinks/jumps/dashes? Thirdly, ward hopping was the one true way Katarina could out play her opponents: surprising a fleeing opponent that thought they were out of her engage range, jumping over a wall at the last second as enemies closed in on her, dodging a global ultimate like Ashe's R when she thought there were no targets for Katarina to jump to, etc. You specifically mention that Katarina needs more obvious ways/methods of out playing her opponents, but as of right now you are removing the strongest example of that. Please, please take that into consideration and adequately compensate her in that regard.
Comentários de Rioters
Nilous7 (NA)
: Swain Quality of Life Changes
Why no have his ult prioritize targets hit by his Q - Decrepify? Everyone has always said that Swain is supposed to be a master tactician but doesn't remotely play like one, so that change would at least make the player think about who he wants to target to get guaranteed damage onto or possibly more heals if the ult has problems targeting champions when minions are around.
: > [{quoted}](name=ArcRaizen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LVVfpE7f,comment-id=0003000c,timestamp=2016-03-31T04:52:17.694+0000) > > Please make an item that has CDR. Hell, make it 10% CDR and low AP/Mana/something so its worth it if you want to max out CDR but not worth it for the other stats. > > Mages only ever build Morello/Athene, Lucidicty Boots by sacrificing Sorc Boots' MPen, or the niche Lichbane for CDR, and thats a pathetically low amount of options to get such an essential stat, especially compared to tanks/ADCs. I know mages are "stronger" with CDR than ADCs (you guys have said this before), but the lack of options to get CDR is pathetic for AP champs. In that case, Riot should re-add those ap items from the Black Market Brawler minigame. They provide everything a mage would need: mana regen, cdr, ap, and little bit of mobility.
All the books and Staff of Flowing Water were basically replacements for Morello's/Athene's, so that wouldn't really help. To expand on my point more, just look at all the options other classes have to get CDR from items: ADCs/AD champions can get: Trinity Force, Black Cleaver, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Death's Dance, Essence Reaver. Tanks can get: Frozen Heart, Spirit Visage, Iceborn Gauntlet, Banner of Command, Locket of the Iron Solari, Ohmwrecker (ok, its a joke) and some tanks/tanky bruisers get Black Cleaver or Trinity Force. Supports can get all of the tank items plus Zeke's Harbinger, Mikael's Crucible, some can get Ardent Censer, and all of the gold-income items. Every class can get Lucidity Boots. So ADCs/AD champs have 6 items (and Essence Reaver should count as 2 since it gives CDR based on other items), tanks have 6-8 items, supports have 9-10 items. Mages have 6 items, but 2 of them are mutually exclusive and 1 is super super niche: Morellonomicon/Athene's Unholy Grail, Lichbane, Nashor's Tooth, Will of the Ancients, Lucidity Boots. Realistically, WotA is extremely Niche (coughVladcough) and both Nashor's and Lichbane or pretty niche themselves and not viable items on most mages. Your average mage has almost no options to viably opt into CDR during a game. Any ADC that wants 40% CDR can get it from just items. Any tank that wants 40% CDR can get it from just items. Any support that wants 40% CDR can get it from just items. Any mage that wants 40% CDR probably has to take 10% CDR in runes. I thought Riot really like items and item build paths being flexible for ever game, but mages can never go "Wow, I really want/need to get CDR this game, I guess I'll buy <insert-CDR-item-here>" but instead have to decide before the game starts if they want/need CDR in order to realistically reach the cap and that's their only choice. There's no flexibility in CDR for mages. I know Riot has said they don't want mages to be able to get CDR so easily because they utilize it better than other classes, but I feel like being unable to get it wrong. Are mages "too strong" with CDR? Fine, then let them make the choice: CDR or actual damage. Give them a CDR item that they buy only for the CDR and let the other stats (AP/mana/mpen/HP/something) just be there to round it out. Hell, make it not-cost efficient on stats alone, but let the mages have a choice or option to get CDR if they really think that is the best path.
Meddler (NA)
: Yes. Primarily modifications to existing items, we'll likely add a new component or two to help with build paths though.
Please make an item that has CDR. Hell, make it 10% CDR and low AP/Mana/something so its worth it if you want to max out CDR but not worth it for the other stats. Mages only ever build Morello/Athene, Lucidicty Boots by sacrificing Sorc Boots' MPen, or the niche Lichbane for CDR, and thats a pathetically low amount of options to get such an essential stat, especially compared to tanks/ADCs. I know mages are "stronger" with CDR than ADCs (you guys have said this before), but the lack of options to get CDR is pathetic for AP champs.
: I edited in an answer regarding that, but I do feel like we're in a bit of a vacuum comparison. A mage using abilities on cooldown can often stop or outright deny a champion threat. A marksman can do the same via a steady stream of damage but we're basically talking variance in power. Mages have high variance - high highs, low lows (no abilities to cast), while Marksmen have less highs but more consistent output. In a balanced world, these two types of damage output would be well balanced against each other, but Mages also get the addition of utility, which needs to be considered as well. I suppose this is a long way of saying damage isn't the only thing to compare and Mages vs. Marksmen can't really be boiled down to individual stat comparisons and who gets access to what. A reverse example (not totally comparable) might be if Marksmen were demanding total AD scaling on Trinity Force procs, similar to Lich Bane.
I think there's another side to this argument that's being ignored. The strength/priority of CDR on mages vs marksman is one argument, but the general availability of CDR to mages is just terrible. There are barely any AP-based CDR items remotely viable to a decently-broad spectrum of mage champions. Morello/Athene's is the standard 20% CDR item nearly all mages buy. WotA is extremely niche, almost exclusively bought by Vlad. Lichbane now has 10% CDR, but few mages actually want to/are able to auto attack in combos. Nashor's Tooth has 20% CDR, but is only viable on the few auto attack focused AP champs (Kayle, Diana, Azir, Teemo). Lucidity Boots are obvious, but no mage dares to lose magic penetration because that's an even more valuable stat. So there's Morello/Athene's, Lucidity Boots, and 3 niche or extremely-niche items for mages that have CDR and that's it. Your average mage has 0 options (Lucidity is a very very hard to argue option on the vast majority of mages) outside of the core Morello/Athene's, and then add in losing 5% CDR from masteries on most champs and mages are starved for CDR and there are no open stores for them to go to. Sure, CDR might be strong on mages, but there is no realistic way to to even opt into getting CDR unless you dump 20% of it into runes, and that isn't feasible and sounds completely counter-intuitive.
: [DEV BLOG] Keystone Masteries in the 2016 Season
How do you feel about designing the "Cunning" tree for assassins, but then putting the % total armor/magic penetration masteries in the "Ferocity" tree, especially after the changes to Last Whisper going to % _bonus_ armor penetration only for AD assassins? I understand assassins are meant to target low-armor targets, but basically every champion gains armor per level, so by late-game flat-penetration loses value and there are no viable % total armor penetration items for assassins. Take Talon for example: its obvious the preferred Keystone mastery for him is Stormraider's Surge (its icon is basically a picture of him). Along the way, he takes Merciless, Dangerous Game, and Precision, all masteries great for AD assassins. He puts his 12 remaining points into the Ferocity tree, but cannot reach Battering Blows for % armor penetration (an extremely valued stat). His other option is to put 18 points into Ferocity, but none of the Keystones truly apply to him: Warlord's Bloodlust and Fervor of Battle are for crit-based Marksman/Yasuo/Tryndamere, and Deathfire Touch is alright, but assassins want burst which it clearly isn't at all. So either option Talon or other AD assassins make is non-optimal: you lose the best Keystone mastery for your champion, or you lose one the most powerful stats for your champion. Again, I realize the new masteries are about making distictive and meaningful choices, but this feels less like "which should I choose between" and more "which one screws me over less."
: Would you be willing to divulge your thoughts on this? :) We actually had three in testing at one point (with a slightly different profile). The number of new items and item changes was overwhelming for quite a few people. It's much easier to add more when there's a clear trade already established, so it's open design space in the future. Before we decide to explore that space once more I would like to wait some time first for people to get used to all the current item changes.
On a different note, how do you think the changes in armor penetration items affect non-marksman champions that typically build armor pen (i.e. AD Assassins like Talon, Zed, Rengar, Kha'zix, etc.) now that the items seem to have been re-tooled to favor marksman? Someone like Talon typically has Youmuu's and Last Whisper as core items for bursting squishy targets. Now that Last Whisper has changed to % Bonus Armor penetration only, it's totally useless to Talon, leaving the only possible armor sources for armor penetration as runes, masteries, Youmuu's, Black Cleaver, and the new Maw of Malmortius. AD Assassins already run armor penetration in runes and masteries (new masteries have % armor pen in a really awkward spot for AD Assassins, but that's another story), Youmuu's is, as I said, already core, Black Cleaver is a very inefficient purchase for burst champions, and Maw of Malmortius could easily be an inefficient purchase if the enemy has little to no magic damage threats leaving the MR useless. To me, AD Assassins are almost entirely losing % total armor penetration and are then being shoehorned into only flat penetration coming from an expensive item that may be non-optimal because its other stats are wasted, except in rare cases when the squishy enemies atypically buy armor, finally making the new % bonus armor penetration items worthwhile.
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