: > [{quoted}](name=AvisPraeda,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vxpIlKe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-18T08:21:17.007+0000) > > Stacking crowd control is the only way to deal with a lot of the champions that exist currently in League. The counter to a champion like an Akali, or an Irelia, or an Ekko, the list goes on, is to literally stop them from playing the game until they are dead, because if you don't or cannot, they're likely walking all over you, or taking no losses from a fight they can simply "outplay you" by choosing to leave. > > Melting as a tank/juggernaut with aftershock and tenacity is frustrating, and I think a lot of people can empathize with how useless it feels to actually try to tank damage in the current meta. However, you can take solace in the fact that getting all of the enemy CC dumped onto you means they haven't used it on your teammates, which likely are champions I mentioned, and they can retaliate for you. Problems: 1) stacking crowd control is the only way - Yes you're right.. But that screams at how horrendously inept Riot has been in balancing their game.. How overloaded every kit has been since Darius was released (it was around that time these overloaded kits started appearing on a massive scale), and how out of control its got. 2) Melting as a tank doesn't do anything with cool downs... By the time that 3rd, 4th or sometimes even 5th stun lands on you.. the enemy already has all their stuns and snares back up for your squishies... This is because CDR has become a norm.. Almost everything gives CDR now, and CDR as you level up... It's not out of the ordinary now to have champs that have stuns with only a 2-5 second CD when CDR is involved, and some items are finished.. By the time that CC stun lock rotation is done, all their cool downs are starting to get done, and they're ready for another CC stun on another champ. Even the champs with longer stun, root, CD's don't suffer because someone in their team has a low CD slow, stun, root that once that CC chain is done, they're throwing back out, and by the time your longer CD is done you're ready to pile it back on the mix.. So no, that tank you just melted.. didn't do jack to help the team.. --------------------- This became so obvious to me a few days when I got a Leona Solaris skin, and i decided to give her a go a few times in some games.. Almost always the enemy team is loaded with stuns, snares, slows of every caliber, and even while I'm CC locked in place, I'm watching my squishies get destroyed by MORE cc that they didn't even need for me before I got blown up... No, as a tank eating damage I'm not doing jack to help the team, it wasn't like this several years ago, eating damage as a tank, and eating stuns, and cc's meant something back when mana and cdr wasn't given on a silver platter and it was something that you could actually play around...
> [{quoted}](name=KnightLakega,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vxpIlKe,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-11-18T20:20:37.932+0000) > > Problems: > > 1) stacking crowd control is the only way - Yes you're right.. But that screams at how horrendously inept Riot has been in balancing their game.. How overloaded every kit has been since Darius was released (it was around that time these overloaded kits started appearing on a massive scale), and how out of control its got. > > 2) Melting as a tank doesn't do anything with cool downs... By the time that 3rd, 4th or sometimes even 5th stun lands on you.. the enemy already has all their stuns and snares back up for your squishies... > > This is because CDR has become a norm.. Almost everything gives CDR now, and CDR as you level up... It's not out of the ordinary now to have champs that have stuns with only a 2-5 second CD when CDR is involved, and some items are finished.. By the time that CC stun lock rotation is done, all their cool downs are starting to get done, and they're ready for another CC stun on another champ. > > Even the champs with longer stun, root, CD's don't suffer because someone in their team has a low CD slow, stun, root that once that CC chain is done, they're throwing back out, and by the time your longer CD is done you're ready to pile it back on the mix.. > > So no, that tank you just melted.. didn't do jack to help the team.. > > --------------------- > > This became so obvious to me a few days when I got a Leona Solaris skin, and i decided to give her a go a few times in some games.. Almost always the enemy team is loaded with stuns, snares, slows of every caliber, and even while I'm CC locked in place, I'm watching my squishies get destroyed by MORE cc that they didn't even need for me before I got blown up... > > No, as a tank eating damage I'm not doing jack to help the team, it wasn't like this several years ago, eating damage as a tank, and eating stuns, and cc's meant something back when mana and cdr wasn't given on a silver platter and it was something that you could actually play around... I mostly agree, but asking riot to undo most of what they've turned the game into is not a feasible strategy for business reasons alone. People don't like playing or watching games with waiting, delayed gratification, and subtle strategy, they like lots of dashes, button-pressing, and combos.
Teémò (NA)
: Why is vision always being removed from the game?
Vision is super powerful. I wonder why they haven't just reduced wards' vision range a bit instead of removing warding more and more. A smaller ward vision range would make the position of said wards much more important.
: Is Pyke too strong a champion?
I'd say he's strong in that he takes more skill to play against than to play as. His kit has a low skill floor to any non-new player, is very forgiving in terms of positioning and sustain, and is able to stay relevant even when behind. Meanwhile, in order to play against Pyke, you need to both be skilled on your champion and be coordinated as a team. You need to keep track of his easily lethal high speed roams, you need to duck out of fights early to avoid a true damage execute and keep him away from low teammates. In order to actually kill him, you need to rally your team to hold him down while you dump most of your burst onto him, and also need to know when you SHOULD be focusing him instead of someone else on his team. Pyke lets a player be a high-threat low-value target, and demands a lot of more out of the enemy team to neutralize him than he spends being a problem.
: Nerf Chain CC
Stacking crowd control is the only way to deal with a lot of the champions that exist currently in League. The counter to a champion like an Akali, or an Irelia, or an Ekko, the list goes on, is to literally stop them from playing the game until they are dead, because if you don't or cannot, they're likely walking all over you, or taking no losses from a fight they can simply "outplay you" by choosing to leave. Melting as a tank/juggernaut with aftershock and tenacity is frustrating, and I think a lot of people can empathize with how useless it feels to actually try to tank damage in the current meta. However, you can take solace in the fact that getting all of the enemy CC dumped onto you means they haven't used it on your teammates, which likely are champions I mentioned, and they can retaliate for you.
Comentários de Rioters
Yenn (NA)
: Watching Rengar 100 to 0 my ADC in 0.2 seconds, before my abilities even reach him, feels amazing
buy guardian angel soon. The loss of dps is worth it if the alternative is death.
: Why Was "Honoring Opponents" Removed?
people would honor enemies who fed. that was an issue iirc.
nelogis (EUW)
: Which old champions do you think would completely annihilate todays League?
Innerverating Locket Sona with... Soul Shroud, Zeke's Herald, old Aegis, Will of the Ages' and boots (No longer need to keep an inventory slot open for a stack of sight wards). Imagine the biggest stat stick in the game that never ran out of mana' granting everyone simultaneous free AD, AP ,lots of armor, MR ,10%CDR, Movespeed, Lifesteal and Spellvamp, and attack speed. While doing sona's healing. The build isn't super squishy either. Nowadays the support would actual be able to afford the whole thing too.
Dynikus (NA)
: Played Sylas on pbe. Riot, are you feeling okay?
So he's got a lot of AoE for waveclear, he's got a very nice dueling kit (That's probably even better against dedicated duelists due to the ult steal), and he's sticky. This guy looks like he can do everything except hard-cc opponents with his base kit, unless he has some severe mana or cooldown gating which, given Riot's newer champion designs, isn't likely. So what is laning against this guy gonna feel like? I doubt you can shove lane while he's present unless you are manaless, given his large AoE and passive. Fighting him also looks to be a pain, depending on whether or not he maxes that ridiculous W or not. Add in his E stickiness and it looks like this guy is impossible to get away from. The ult just adds insult to injury at this point. I'd also want to see how he jungles. Ganking as him could be a piece of cake with his slow and dashes. Looks like another champ that you counterpick in champion select and pray the person playing them is makes mistakes.
: Aurelion Sol needs help - possible suggestion
Why not just make his Q instantly reactivatable instead of tacking something onto his utility spell? Right now, it has a lockout window so you can't stun people right on top of you. I think given all the direct and indirect nerfs he's dealt with as of late, it would balance out.
: what makes your favorite champion your favorite?
{{champion:26}} You actually have to manage your mana, your have to manipulate your cooldowns well to get the most mileage out of your kit. There's a fun push and pull of counterplay over each game of enemies learning to play around your ult and learning to dodge your bombs, so if you win, you definitely earned it. The logistic advantage you can give someone hy following them around and speed boosting them to where they need to be. Wild goose chases with enemy greedy divers who can't catch you. Also, when all your team dies, you can spam his taunt. "I've seen your death, it was painful."
: Someone just linked me this chart and damn if it isn't true.
First of all, matchmaking makes games accessible to trogs who don't know how to use a server browser. Yes, there are people who are intimidated by server browser. Secondly, matchmaking ruins games because there is no longer persistent community. You didn't want to trash talk people on a server since you might play against or see them again - without that restraint, people can antagonize you all they want because they know they likely will never be matchmade with you again. With such toxicity come reporting systems like what we have in League where they miss the real problem players while whiny pissbabies get someone who is just having a bad day banned. To be honest, I doubt old style servers would work with league. Playing against someone you've played against could confer meta advantages such as knowing the other player's tendencies. Maybe the community is too large for that, though.
: > [{quoted}](name=DoktorKaiser,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ob7ywFA,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-25T02:45:46.116+0000) > > Obviously pointless to argue with you, assassin abusers don't have a functional brain unfortunately. "assassin abuser"... wow I abuse assassins so much that I don't have a single game or own ANY assassin in the game. Sorry that people actually have opinions that differ from your own. If you cannot defend your opinion and have to resort to "insults" then you already lost the argument. You are right about one thing though, it's pointless to argue with me since you have zero intention of even attempting to start one
One shots are not what assassins should do as a default condition. I'm only speaking from my experience here, but as I recall from back around s2 to around s4-ish(?), assassins weren't supposed to "Oneshot/one combo" as the default setting if their kit unless you were someone like Sona. Even someone like Zed, who when he was released really looked like the champ made to one-combo people, had to poke you down to around 60% health with his shurikens in lane before he could all-in you with his ult. I'm trying to say that this idea or entitlement that assassins are treated like their default condition is "I should be able to kill anyone under 2.5k health if I'm even or ahead", and that's simply not good to play against. Before, when dealing with some of the older "assassins" who really were just souped up burst mages (Katarina, Leblanc, Fizz, old AP riftwalk Kassadin), they could only insta-kill you by punishing you for staying somewhere with half health. You knew if you kept your health high and stayed with your team, they would peel you and you'd survive. No one is saying assassins shouldn't be a huge damage threat when ahead, or in the lategame when everyone's builds have diverged. They should be made to punish people (Or entire teams) who are alone, wounded, and overextending. However, now we have stuff like Rengar, Kha Zix, Camille, and "Miss all my skillshots and kill you Zed", who have enough damage in a short span that they're nigh-unpeelable. The counterplay is gone. Now that assassins are entitled to the 100-0 one shot as long as they "play well enough" (Let's really be honest here, league is not a very mechanically challenging game, not even when playing certainlyt champs), the whole class becomes unsatisying to play against. Combine the damage from new runes and Zed becomes basically AD Annie, who as soon as they hit R will nuke you for all your health. It sucks. Tl:DR : Assassins shouldn't one shot and the attitude that they should is what makes them suck to play against.
: What is your favourite augment on Odyssey?
Malphite's echoing slam augment. You can rack up some crazy aoe over time if you just go tank with Cdr.
Jaspers (EUW)
: You are taking each individual part and saying it's not OP on it's own and yes, this might be the case but it's as a whole. She's currently tormenting ranged midlaners, not top laners. Does a champ that does bonus damage to shields, proc sheen/tiamat so easily on resets, mobility out of the arse, a stun, has a way to stop ADCs doing damage, has 200 range NEED sustain and damage reduction? It's not a risk to dive in if you can just reduce the damage and heal up, dash back to safety. Half her kit stuff could be removed and she'd still be fine.
"> Half her kit stuff could be removed and she'd still be fine." That's Irelia Pre-rework and she was mostly kinda fine. Welcome to powercreep. With her rework, they took her existing kit and plain _heaped extra stuff on top of it_. She still has her Bladesurge and scaling On-hit damage - Irelia can still ~~steal her teammates farm perfectly~~ dash around minions like no tomorrow, but now she has two extra skills. The parts subtracted from her kit were largely peripheral to her strengths and are outshined massively by what was added - her old Equilibrium Strike stun was situationally reliable, the passive tenacity would be obsolete nowadays due to most meta champs using knockups or displacements, and her ult was, at least in my experience, a sustain tool. Runes that she takes (Conqueror and Domination) do well to replace the sustain and true damage she lost on her old Hiten Style (W). Sure, she may not do comparable true damage in the early game, but I think it's largely compensated for by the fact that instead of having to dump points into her old W, she can now go straight to spending levels on her Q dash, reducing its cooldown per level while keeping the scaling on-hit damage. Old Irelia's big damage came from having a fully maxed Q and W both active at the same time, but now she just needs to max Q to keep her big burst. Given catchup XP, it's very hard to put her behind since unless you have ground her down into the dirt, she can still do very respectable damage. Reworked, she has a much more reliable and deadly RANGED AOE/LINE STUN (???) that gives her a free gap close if she hits it, a parry/DR skill that probably mitigates as much damage as her ult daggers would have, and an ult that works well in both a dueling sense and can be super-influential in teamfights. I don't understand how no one looked at her kit in comparison to previous champion's kits and went "yeah, that's the same total power budget she had before!" I think the ones who beat Irelia now are either specialized bullies (and even they can lose), or champs who have just as many tools as she does because they were designed with the same overloaded kit style mentality that she was. So yeah, new Irelia is one of my least favorite things.
: Bring back pre-reworked versions of champs as an option
The Trundle Rework that just turned him into yet another Freljord Ice champ was unnecessary and a mistake.
Eons3 (NA)
: New summoner spell idea :D
: Assassins would need to be build around being a follow up to allied damage. Executing low health targets. Or as Alpha damage for their team mates to follow up on. Instead of being a 100-0 then escape class. To do this the entire damage Meta would need to be gutted. Champions would actually have to have well defined roles and not everyone could be a 100-0 killing machine. All Assassins would need to be reworked to have more utility and interactions with team mates. The line between "Diver" and "Assassin" would probably get pretty darn blurry.
That was what they used to do, move around the edges of a fight waiting for a squishy to lose just enough health so they could finish them in one go. It was a big risk for the assassin to have someone else on the enemy team come after you before you were in position, because you would have to burn parts of your combo to get them off of you and still get to the adc. Yeah, the assassin got fed, they could start going rambo on everyone, but they were never guaranteed to instakill anyone in one combo if they were on even or even slightly ahead ground simply because "That's what an assassin is supposed to do". They had to work to get to that one-combo. Now, since assassins can kill all but the tankiest champs and are expected to 100-0 right out of the gate, everyone has to avoid them, making it extremely hard to interrupt an assassin without losing something to them.
Shonjl (NA)
: I personally don't think every champ has to have 50 dashes or an answer to every situation button or 5 passive in their kit. Nothing wrong with keeping a simplistic kit. He has plenty of counterplay. Its called kill him. He fears you and that's all he has or dies. Fiddle is a champ you get mercs no questions asked just like if a viegar or morgana or Maokai is in a game. Half the time I just keep chasing him after the like 1 second fear and kill him anyways. If he tries drain tanking you. Cc him or burst. If you can't why are you chasing him? This game has enough Yasuos and Camilles and Irelias which have an answer to everything. Start figuring out the answer to fiddle instead of crying. God forbid he shows up in a fee games when he hasn't existed in ages.
This exactly. He doesn't have an answer to everything like the overloaded kits that have appeared since s3. Fiddlesticks can do nothing to escape most champions of he mispositions. His extreme frailty also means that if he's focused, he dies instantly - not to mention that in League of Burst and Mobility,Fid really can't survive when people start paying attention to him. Everyone's mobile enough to avoid his drain, or can burst/ignite him fast enough to straight up kill him. I don't know what people are whining about when he's not a fantastic duelist and his teamfighting is entirely reliant on how good his positioning is. If he's fearing one of the divers away, that means he isn't ulting onto your team. Honestly, I think it's harder to play champs like fiddle because they're so predictable and no frills. They don't have all the cute and fancy CertainlyT buttons to press.
: Isn't it kind of sad that we'll never have a skeleton champion in the game?
Back when Deathfire Grasp existed, it was originally a skull and bones charm of some kind. It was resprited completely to be a hand gripping a ball of flame or something to remove the skull. The same happened with Abyssal Sceptre where it was clearly a skull before, then it got resprited to look less overtly like a human skull, and now it's an "Abyssal Mask".
: April bundles out now!
All-In means you kill them or you get killed. Not you try to kill them, and either succeed or fail and escape no problem. I think yasuo's the only one there who actually "all-ins", but he has a conditional escape, too.

AvisPraeda

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