: Patch 9.14 notes
I hope the Rioter working on Tahm Kench gets fired. Downvote me all you want but this is a straight dumpstering of my favorite champ.
Nea104 (EUW)
: Terrible, as expected from this people.
: YES. FANTASTIC. As a million point teemo, this is the BEST possible outcome. Thank you for not ruining my champ with unnecessary changes. TEEMO IS FINE.
Idk why you are being downvoted, but as someone who also loves to play Teemo (don't have quite 1mil points though, closer to 400k I think) I agree. These changes completely changed the identity of the champ and I am happy to see they are being dropped. Leave Teemo alone!!!
Riot Jag (NA)
: Update on Teemo changes
This is the happiest news I have gotten all week. :)
: Opinion: "fun to play against" is the most bullshit term to ever exist
Yeah, I hate so much when Riot nerfs a champion on the basis that they "aren't fun to play against." Like if that is a legit reason to mess around with a champion, then over half the roster should be gutted. The Teemo rework they are working on they keep stating to be because they want him to be less frustrating to play against and so they want to shift his gameplay away from the shrooms which is like the main reason people play Teemo to begin with. Riot needs to start putting people on champions that they enjoy and care about. Not employees who have a personal vendetta against the champ because they think they are not fun to play against.
: He just needs reverted, honestly. I think Riot needs to lay off the VGUs until they get some actual people who know what they are doing. Not trying to sling mud, just stating a fact.
I agree. It seems like people complain about all the reworked champions post-VGU more than they did with the champ originally. Plus almost every rework that Riot does feels like it was made by someone who doesn't get why the original champion was so beloved. As someone who enjoys playing Volibear jungle, I am already saddened knowing that my jungle main will be completely altered both in the way he plays and his appearance within the next year. The concept art was pretty concerning personally too. Seems like the people at Riot envision Volibear as some huge hulking edgy bear with weapons jabbed into his back and all scarred up. I don't play Voli because he's edgy, I play him because he's a giant fluffy bear.
: > [{quoted}](name=Blakiepug,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=f4mGsBR6,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-06-17T00:05:15.665+0000) > > Honestly, I think new champions are much more exciting than reworks and I would rather see Riot slow down/stop with the reworks. It seems like everyone cries and begs for reworks of champions they claim to be "unhealthy" for the game (I don't even know what this phrase means anymore when people are saying Volibear is unhealthy for the game, like what???), but then when the rework comes out it winds up being significantly more "unhealthy" for the game by overloading the kits of older champions. Take Akali or Irelia for example. These champions are significantly more frustrating to face than they were in the past. Getting a rework is really the same thing as a new champion. Maybe not in the future because I think they stated that they are going to stop doing complete kit reworks, but still it's exciting to see one nonetheless. Let's look at {{champion:9}} for an example. He is not really that good anywhere. He can jg but his clear is not that great. He can mid but he does not perform well into a lot of matchups. He can also support but the best thing he can do is silence for a second and ult from a bush at 6. He is not healthy for the game because he really can't do anything well. He has been out for a long time and people have grown attached to him. While that number may not be very high for {{champion:9}} in particular, if he was to get reworked (which I think he is being looked at with {{champion:106}} and such right now) his mains, and the people that like the champ would be happy and more people would try the champion out and possibly find a new main or just another champ they love to play. While it is nice to see new champions, what they do, and the way they change up the meta (for the better or worse) I was much more hyped for the {{champion:10}} and {{champion:82}} rework than I was for both{{champion:517}} and {{champion:350}} , but more so{{champion:350}}. {{champion:517}} is pretty cool from a conceptual standpoint. He is having some troubles with balance right now I believe.
> [{quoted}](name=SeaWeaboo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=f4mGsBR6,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-06-17T15:57:33.040+0000) > > Getting a rework is really the same thing as a new champion. Maybe not in the future because I think they stated that they are going to stop doing complete kit reworks, but still it's exciting to see one nonetheless. Let's look at {{champion:9}} for an example. He is not really that good anywhere. He can jg but his clear is not that great. He can mid but he does not perform well into a lot of matchups. He can also support but the best thing he can do is silence for a second and ult from a bush at 6. He is not healthy for the game because he really can't do anything well. He has been out for a long time and people have grown attached to him. While that number may not be very high for {{champion:9}} in particular, if he was to get reworked (which I think he is being looked at with {{champion:106}} and such right now) his mains, and the people that like the champ would be happy and more people would try the champion out and possibly find a new main or just another champ they love to play. While it is nice to see new champions, what they do, and the way they change up the meta (for the better or worse) I was much more hyped for the {{champion:10}} and {{champion:82}} rework than I was for both{{champion:517}} and {{champion:350}} , but more so{{champion:350}}. {{champion:517}} is pretty cool from a conceptual standpoint. He is having some troubles with balance right now I believe. I love playing Fiddlesticks support. However, once he is reworked, that champion is gone. Even if you call the reworked champ Fiddlesticks too, he will not be the same as is the case with all of the other reworked champions (Morgana is the exception). If they released a new champion instead, then I still have my Fiddlesticks support. That is my point.
Pyrosan (NA)
: Would you like to see new champions stop being made and others improved on quality?
Honestly, I think new champions are much more exciting than reworks and I would rather see Riot slow down/stop with the reworks. It seems like everyone cries and begs for reworks of champions they claim to be "unhealthy" for the game (I don't even know what this phrase means anymore when people are saying Volibear is unhealthy for the game, like what???), but then when the rework comes out it winds up being significantly more "unhealthy" for the game by overloading the kits of older champions. Take Akali or Irelia for example. These champions are significantly more frustrating to face than they were in the past.
: > [{quoted}](name=Blakiepug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lYpU7iNF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-16T15:40:19.511+0000) > > I really wish the Rioter working on this Teemo rework would just give up and let it go already. The rework completely misunderstands why the champion is so popular and fun to play. > [{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lYpU7iNF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-16T17:48:18.652+0000) > > Hopefully we've seen the last of that "rework", it was crap. Teemo doesn't need any rework, we don't need to see him in pro play. Do you guys think it's possible that they'll just drop it? I've been under the impression that it's happening no matter what we want, and we just have to direct it to be the best we can.
With how often the Teemo rework keeps popping up on the PBE, I'm guessing they are probably going to push it through no matter what at some point. If it had not been brought back to the PBE after it was first introduced months ago, then I would say it is dead. However, it has found its way into several different PBE cycles at this point which makes me think that the person working on this will pursue it until something ships.
: Teemo Rework: Swift Scout is neither Swift nor a Scout.
I really wish the Rioter working on this Teemo rework would just give up and let it go already. The rework completely misunderstands why the champion is so popular and fun to play.
: I'm probably going to get flamed for this since everyone here seems to think this is a huge nerf to support Tahm but it's not as bad as you guys are misinterpreting it to be. His ally can no longer exit Tahm if he is hard CC'd during the duration of the CC. Allies can still leave of their own accord but not while he is CC'd. The biggest nerf honestly is the damage nerf to hurt his early game and the range on spit reduction making it worse at re-positioning the ally he ate. Basically the entire premise of the rage in this thread is wrong. Reading comprehension guys cmon. {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
I mean I think the point isn't that this is a huge nerf, but rather that they are nerfing Tahm Kench yet again after he has received nerf after nerf in almost every patch this year.
Meddler (NA)
: Most recent version in testing was pretty E focused as follows (differences all versus previous prototype version, not versus live Teemo): - No longer granted extra sight range - CD didn't tick down faster in brush - Distance while invisible up a bit - CD lower - Standing in brush slowly replenished distance Teemo could move while invisible Haven't heard how playtesting with that went though. Expect this will likely continue as a slow burn project rather than something that gets released or killed quickly, especially given it's the secondary priority of the designer working on it.
Please kill it, the changes completely alter the kind of champion that Teemo is...
: There's already a nerf targeted at top Tahm on the way. https://twitter.com/RiotRepertoir/status/1136365569362485248
Jesus more nerfs??? Can Riot stop changing my favorite champion patch after patch after patch?
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: Well, reworks are still here, so the game is in a terrible state.
Riot: We are slowing down production on reworks next year and focusing more on adding new champions again. Also Riot: We have decided we will rework both Fiddlesticks and Volibear at the same time.
: Unfortunate for people who have terrible taste and/or only like an old champ when their kit is broken.
Oh yes, shame on those Volibear mains for playing a champion as busted as him. Obviously there is something wrong with these people who clearly only play Volibear because he is a big fluffy bear or because he is broken in ranked. /s
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 9
Stop leaving Tahm Kench to rot. He should 100% be one of the tanks being considered for buffs after how bad he was dumpstered.
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaUFEGAr,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-10-07T19:34:33.881+0000) > > "I also like to put things in quotes that don't reflect what someone said" - D357R0Y3R > > 4. On 8.19 we instead buffed some champs that are considered decent against her as a low range marksman (Pyke, Thresh, Kog'maw), while nerfing some that gave her a lot of protection (Braum/Tahm Kench). > Really enjoy talking on the boards! You’re nerfing other champs because Kai’sa is too strong?
> [{quoted}](name=coreychichi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaUFEGAr,comment-id=000d000f,timestamp=2018-10-07T22:23:55.035+0000) > > You’re nerfing other champs because Kai’sa is too strong? As if Tahm wasn't nerfed enough before, now he is being nerfed for champions other than himself being strong like wtf? >:(
: "I also like to put things in quotes that don't reflect what someone said" - D357R0Y3R Let me rephrase the statement which was from the post where I was talking about why we hadn't nerfed some of the high presence champs in pro play on 8.19. Hope this is clearer for you. 1. On 8.15/8.16 Kai'sa had high presence in pro play (76%), but had more picks than bans. 2. On 8.18 we nerfed her. 3. On 8.19 we opted to not nerf her again due to the fact we'd already nerfed her since the last pro play we'd seen. 4. On 8.19 we instead buffed some champs that are considered decent against her as a low range marksman (Pyke, Thresh, Kog'maw), while nerfing some that gave her a lot of protection (Braum/Tahm Kench). We're doing some power curve shifts to Kai'sa for potentially 8.21, but it's more involved than a standard buff/nerf and not something we were going to do for 8.19. Really enjoy talking on the boards!
> [{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JaUFEGAr,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-10-07T19:34:33.881+0000) > > "I also like to put things in quotes that don't reflect what someone said" - D357R0Y3R > > Let me rephrase the statement which was from the post where I was talking about why we hadn't nerfed some of the high presence champs in pro play on 8.19. Hope this is clearer for you. > > 1. On 8.15/8.16 Kai'sa had high presence in pro play (76%), but had more picks than bans. > 2. On 8.18 we nerfed her. > 3. On 8.19 we opted to not nerf her again due to the fact we'd already nerfed her since the last pro play we'd seen. > 4. On 8.19 we instead buffed some champs that are considered decent against her as a low range marksman (Pyke, Thresh, Kog'maw), while nerfing some that gave her a lot of protection (Braum/Tahm Kench). > > We're doing some power curve shifts to Kai'sa for potentially 8.21, but it's more involved than a standard buff/nerf and not something we were going to do for 8.19. > > Really enjoy talking on the boards! Yeah because Tahm wasn't already nerfed enough prior to 8.19, let's nerf him some more because he synergizes too well with Kai'sa. No reason to nerf Kai'sa, just keep nerfing Tahm who nobody cares about (we think)... -_-
: I'm Still Furious about Sejuani.
Sorry about Sej. :( I feel similar about my favorite champ Tahm Kench who has just been dumpstered to the point he is barely playable anymore. Obviously Kench wasn't "reworked" like Sej though.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 5
Still waiting for Riot balance team to wake up...
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 3
Why does Karma always get all the balance team's attention while you guys continuously choose to do nothing positive to help Tahm Kench and his playerbase?
: Frustration.
Yeah, Tahm Kench is my favorite champion but playing him after the double patches of nerfs he got, it really feels like I am playing with a huge handicap just for liking a certain champion that other people don't.
: Is the plan just to slowly remove tahm from the game?
Tahm Kench being my favorite champion, the way the balance team has treated him recently has really turned me off the game.
: That’s a pretty flat out lie. Riot has repeatedly said they’ve messed up on something, or that they could have done better. Just because *you* don’t think a change is good doesn’t mean it isn’t as a whole.
> [{quoted}](name=AvantelWings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rITA4XxY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-09-28T21:18:45.478+0000) > > That’s a pretty flat out lie. > > Riot has repeatedly said they’ve messed up on something, or that they could have done better. > > Just because *you* don’t think a change is good doesn’t mean it isn’t as a whole. Can you give me some examples?
: I'm so fed up with the balance team after this patch
I would add the absurd Tahm Kench nerfs after he was already nerfed hard just a few weeks ago and is sitting around a 46% win rate. Someone on the balance team clearly hates this champion and will not be satisfied until they have him hit a sub 45% win rate it seems. This is just getting ridiculous; the balance team has no philosophy guiding them. They just make dumb choices, never fix them, and somehow still get paid to do their jobs. Like this isn't just one or two bad patches anymore. Nearly the entire season has been filled with some of the most idiotic balance changes that have ever come to the game and they just keep coming.
: How are you going to say you see the issue with damage being too high
Weird comparison incoming but... If anyone from the Riot balance team were to take one of my Teacher Education classes, they would utterly fail the course when it comes to writing reflections upon their own work. The balance team always seems to think that everything they do is a positive change and never ask themselves what they could do better next time and then act on it. I just don't understand why it's so hard for them to admit, hey look we messed up; now here is our plan for how to fix it.
: Why do i feel handicaped while playing my favorite champion?
As a Tahm Kench main I feel the same way, especially after the nerfs he has received over the past few months. I love to play Tahm but he just feels like such a dumpster fire to play now that it has really killed a lot of my motivation to play League when it feels like I am being punished just for liking a particular champion.
: Patch 8.19, the patch no one asked for.
Wait, Tahm got nerfed again?! Wtf I am so pissed off at Riot. Sorry for my language, but this is ridiculous for him to get nerfed at all after the hard nerfs he received a few weeks back. Like actually, this balance team is 100% the worst League has ever had.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 19
Buff Tahm Kench. This balance team is the worst.
: Rework Volibear, and Rework Wukong.
How about no... \#StoptheVGUs
: Someone miss FOTM (Face of the mountain)?
I miss this item a lot. The balance team really ticked me off when they removed it off the premise that it was "too similar to Locket." I know not everyone feels the same, but Riot's "support update" earlier this season killed a lot of my love for the role. Everything feels so pigeonholed now; there just isn't enough variety when all support items lead to wards, wards, and more wards.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 14
Buff Tahm Kench. Riot's balance team is killing this game by dumpstering champions they think don't have a dedicated player base and it's getting ridiculous how blatantly obvious the balance team's favoritism is.
Rexxiee (NA)
: They actually went ahead and buffed a 30% pick rate 53% win rate champion (lucian)
In other news, Rek'Sai was looked into for buffs but they decided she was too strong in her current state to receive buffs. Yeah, this balance team has some serious double standards.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 12
I can't stand this balance team. The Tahm Kench straight hard nerfs are still being labeled as if everything is fine and they were no big deal, and that news on Rek'Sai is rather concerning. The balance team is literally killing this game champion by champion and nothing is being down about it.
Eedat (NA)
: @Riot You're not going to have anyone to watch Worlds if you have no more players.
Stick it to 'em! I'm still upset that they gutted Kench with practically no compensation when he was already weak. It's even worse that now they are acting like the hard nerfs he received did not affect him much at all and are saying he probably won't be revisited for buffs. He's not even a high skill cap champion, so idk why Riot keeps kicking him when god forbid Tahm gets anywhere near a 48% win rate.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 5
Why is the balance team leaving Tahm Kench to die? >:(
Jango Mage (EUNE)
: The most likely champions to get reworked next year from Reav3's list
I dread seeing Volibear on these lists because I just know that Riot will "Galio" him.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: 47% winrate, 2.3% pickrate sejuani is getting nerfed.
First Tahm, now Sej? :/ We need a new balance team.
: Which champs feel most overbearing when strong in each role.
Top: {{champion:86}} Jgl: {{champion:141}} Mid: {{champion:157}} Bot: {{champion:202}} Supp: {{champion:63}} or {{champion:117}} (Hard for me to choose here.) I think Thresh can also be crazy strong as a support when the meta suits him, but I do think he at least takes a little more practice to become overbearing than Brand and Lulu do.
: Irelia/Fiora/Rengar get buffed while being at 50%..
Meanwhile, Tahm Kench gets up to 48% win rate for the first time in two years and gets instanerfed...
: The Day Has Finally Come
But what did it cost...? :(
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: everyone tells me it's not jhin's fault frankly nobody cares if it is or not **I just want jhin to be weaker** you can remove hail of blade if you want in the end he needs a nerf, **directly or indirectly** it's still a nerf that is requiered just like when they nerfed DFT ad ratio for Jhin in season 7.
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uHG9rmng,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-29T13:30:59.711+0000) > > everyone tells me it's not jhin's fault > > > frankly nobody cares if it is or not > **I just want jhin to be weaker** > you can remove hail of blade if you want > > in the end he needs a nerf, **directly or indirectly** it's still a nerf that is requiered just like when they nerfed DFT ad ratio for Jhin in season 7. So much this. People keep coming out and crying "it's not Jhin's fault; he doesn't deserve nerfs, the items do." Jhin as a champion has received close to no nerfs outside of his release month. And even like you point out, the last time that Jhin was this strong Riot opted nerfing the AD ratio on the DFT mastery solely in an attempt to bring Jhin down a notch without considering how that would affect other AD users of DFT. I honestly have little to no faith that the balance team can change items/runes enough to "fix" Jhin at this point, but regardless something needs to change about Jhin's strength.
Leyruh (EUW)
: Because Jhin isn't a problem : Stormrazor and Hail of Blades are. {{champion:202}} "They call me mad. All artists are mad."
> [{quoted}](name=Leyruh,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gEQR0bxz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-29T12:35:27.164+0000) > > Because Jhin isn't a problem : Stormrazor and Hail of Blades are. > > {{champion:202}} "They call me mad. All artists are mad." Jhin is definitely at least a little over tuned himself as well. As a champion whose one true weakness has been stated to be his lack of mobility on multiple occasions (by both Riot and the community), he sure is pretty mobile thanks to lots of small factors such as his passive, unusually high base move speed for an adc, etc.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 29
Buff back Tahm Kench you monsters >:(
: Fun Skin Ideas
I'm still waiting for Gummy King Tahm Kench! :D
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 24
Buff Tahm Kench you monsters! >:(
Moody P (NA)
: Faithful reworks are the best reworks
Correction: No reworks are the best reworks. \#StopTheVGUS
: Yes, increase the gap between Immobile and mobile champions even more. Look, i get that Flash is overpowered. But this spell is so rooted in the game's heart that it would take a dedicated pre season just to rework it. Ignite on the other hand has no excuse.
> [{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mm6mf0YN,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-22T23:42:43.478+0000) > > Yes, increase the gap between Immobile and mobile champions even more. > > Look, i get that Flash is overpowered. But this spell is so rooted in the game's heart that it would take a dedicated pre season just to rework it. > > Ignite on the other hand has no excuse. Yeah, yeah. Everyone keeps spewing this excuse with no evidence and it's getting mega annoying. For one, we have never seen what the game would look like without flash (not even on the PBE) so we can't say definitively that that would increase the gap between mobile and immobile champs. It may be suspected, but that doesn't mean that is what will actually happen. Secondly, 420 grams was not saying to remove flash, but rather he asked for flash to be nerfed. God forbid flash gets 30-60 seconds added to its cooldown. I'm sure that would break the game like you say /s.
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: Naut change was a buff, i'll say even a big buff.
> [{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=quEuKnA6,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-08-23T21:30:59.072+0000) > > Naut change was a buff, i'll say even a big buff. Not really, not when you consider how large of an issue mana is for Nautilus. He already runs out of mana fairly often, making his W more spammy like they did is quite the detriment to his mana pool. Not to mention that with the shorter duration of the shield and is large nerf to how much damage it shields against, Nautilus is left at larger risks in shorter skirmishes. The shield change is really only beneficial during long team fights, which frankly don't really exist right now.
Cloud273 (NA)
: I'm honestly glad Riot buffed tank champions directly instead of their items...
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