: Experimental "Max Cast Range" Changes Coming to PBE!
Ah, see this is on panths new reworked R, and i kindof HATE it on his R, since part of his ult is roaming anyway it makes it tedious to range check pantheons R to be in range and i think the opposite would be healthier for his ultimate, where he walks into the designated range to ult the targeted area instead of casting it at max range. So many times i have ulted river, cuz i Rd botlane thinking pantheon would walk there while i am scoping out the area i want to be to see if its a good idea before i make the leap. Food for thought.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 11
Any chances we will see traditional tanks [maokai poppy sion] get love through items/ direct buffs? They still feel very unsatisfactory to lose lane 75% of the time to only then not do well in teamfights.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
Meanwhile aftershock lux is a much more annoying/oppressive support, better nerf sona.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
Ill be able to zac again T.T
: Hey gang! Thanks again for all the kind words, support and insightful conversations based around these changes. As we always try to mention, the PBE is often used for experimental stuff that we want the community's feedback on. You all made a few things VERY clear today and I'm super appreciative and receptive to your concerns. **As a result, I'm happy to share a new iteration of Malphite, which should be hitting PBE around Monday midday (PST)**. Sadly it can't be sooner, as we don't push things to PBE over the weekend. **Revisions:** * Q- AP scaling reverted to .6 from .4 * Q- fixed a typo regarding the cast time (was written as .5, is actually .4) * Q- adjusted the animation considerably to look/feel less clunky * W- 3x Armor multiplier when Granite Shield is active has been REINSTATED * W- the bonus damage on the initial Thunderclap hit has had its ratios reduced to compensate (.3 AP from .4) and (.15 Armor from .2) * VFX updates on Passive shield regeneration, Q missile/trench, W up-time/impact, E and R (**BASE SKIN ONLY FOR NOW**) **Context:** Q- Believe it or not, these changes were specifically designed not to nerf AP burst mage builds. We felt like the combination of extra Q range and bonus AP scaling on W would be perceived as a win here. Since that wasn't the case, I'm reverting the AP scaling on Q but nerfing the new W's ratio to compensate. And while I personally do think that Q spam is a little unhealthy, those who came before me were smart enough to gate it behind a high mana cost. I still think this is an elegant solution because the ability is most oppressive in the early game, and its gating mechanism slowly evaporates as Malphite levels up and purchases a mana item. Hopefully this will satiate all the cheese wheelers out there without frustrating your opponents too much. :) W- We underestimated how attached players would be to the 3x Armor multiplier. As a designer, it felt a little tacked on, and granted power in fairly obscure ways. However, there's no denying that preserving Malphite's niche as THE anti-AD tank is important to all of you. It's clearly a resonate fantasy and one I'm happy to bring back. **Clear-Ups** A few common questions/concerns have come up, so let's address them here! * Malphite's abilities won't gain range based on his size- sorry! I wanted to do this, but it was OP OP * The initial AA reset from Thunderclap triggers an Aftershock. This means it deals three instances of damage simultaneously; the AA, Thunderclap bonus damage, and Aftershock AoE damage. The result is a pretty meaty burst of damage! * The new speed differential between Malphite and his target are significantly buffed. Assuming you Q a target with 400 MS on LIVE, the delta between you would be ~225. In this iteration, that delta explodes to 350+ once you get some boots. The combination of a longer range Q, easier target accessibility, and improved burst damage from W should allow Malphite to participate in skirmishes and team fights without always relying on his R. * Scope for this project was super limited, and for good reason. I'm still new, I'm learning the tools, and bandwidth from art/tech was already accounted for in our project pipeline. Maybe Malphite will get a full VGU in the future, and maybe I'll be the one to do it, but that's currently not in our slate. ...Get it? Slate? Cuz he's a-- nevermind. **Next Steps:** * Next week I'd like to add a check to Q that uses your target's move speed if the amount you'd steal from them would make you faster than the base values. This preserves my goal of making Q consistently good, while retaining the playmaking potential of stealing from a particularly fast foe * We'll also be monitoring Malphite's overall damage output/power. I'm happy to reinstate the things you guys said were important to you, but that likely means that Malphite is now overtuned. Please keep in mind that we'll likely have to trim power from _somewhere_. Keep the discussion going! I'll be active here and on Twitter over the weekend. -Lutz
I almost feel like the amount of value being put on the 75 Q range is really high here, it seems good on paper, however most of the time you cant utilize that range outside of lane, as most of the time you are going to well, R in, and be right on the person you're trying to clap anyhow, and as the 625 range is good enough to follow flash i wonder if this extra range is just unnecessary and can be what gets trimmed, with more focus being on the W rework and balancing, most of the time personally early lane i find myself using Q to last hit from range, so lowering the AP ratio hurts his last hitting since his adaptive force is AP, just some food for thought. Also i gonna drop a #cleanupthenumbers while you're working on malph (61.98ad level 1 574.2hp and 282.2 mana NOBODY LIKES YOU DECIMALS)
: Malphite changes coming to PBE
All of the visual changes can go through without a complaint from many (i would assume) but lets talk the number tweaking, and the new W. Starting with his Q, i think changing the cast time is actually really jarring, while the extra range is very nice and perhaps the new timing just takes some getting used to, however i will say the lack of an armor ratio on the Q does make this feel really bad and the damage nerf with its high mana cost means in some cases this just feels bad (lane particularly where you rely on Q's damage with adaptive force to last hit) and that my Q is less impact given how the slow duration was also nerfed, sure i run faster but in all reality, the only buff here is....75 range..... yah feelsreallybad but looks really good and in lane it feels good to use, not as much in a teamfight. I personally LOVE the new W, the titanic esq cleave is great, but then it also has the problem of this is it ends up feeling like a weaker version of jax W, perhaps if the cones range scaled with his armor? just something to make it feel like not a free weaker titanic cuz to me thats all it felt like was a weaker titanic, but at least it gives auto resets now, and maybe thats the only change this needs. In fact this change just makes him feel like a weaker jax, less burst more sustain damage, more sustain damage. only to suffer in the face of better sustain damage champs like irelia or jax. it just doesnt feel like the added W damage makes up that burst since its physical where as malphites burst currently is magic, a HUGE distinction number wise, if you made the W magic damage maybe this would feel better but currently it just feels like AOE bad jax W. It also conflicts with his want for bamis as this adds so much extra waveclear it feels like you could just skip it, and maybe with this change you do just skip it and go a different rushed armor item. Overall i do love the concept of the new W, its just trying not to push malphite too far in this attack speed bruiser that hes not.
: Incentivize not interacting with the enemy team Give access to an effect (usually reactive or defensive) that we don’t actually want all champions to have access to {{item:2419}} {{item:3157}} so these are getting looked at?
other things that i personally think looked at are actually items people use but more because they are forced to {{item:3751}} and {{item:3068}} awkward build path make it really hard to actually want to build this thing combined with its lack of scaling make it hard to want to keep, {{item:3110}} is still massively outclassed by both {{item:3143}} and {{item:3075}} meanwhile some tanks like {{champion:78}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:150}} really hate {{item:3001}} and {{item:3065}} so are pretty much always getting {{item:3194}} (unless they have some healer like {{champion:16}}
: Item Shop Cleanup
Incentivize not interacting with the enemy team Give access to an effect (usually reactive or defensive) that we don’t actually want all champions to have access to {{item:2419}} {{item:3157}} so these are getting looked at?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 25
can we please get an irelia who can actually duel bruiser instead of being just an assassin?
Meddler (NA)
: Under discussion as something we should consider, nothing concrete or certain at present though.
I'm really curious as to why it doesn't seemed out of line, I am mostly just curious as to how its determined that the keystone itself (conq in this case) VS a champion {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} something similar happened in the past with {{champion:89}} and Aftershock, after the rune was nerfed, Leo was left in a weak state only to then need buffs in an attempt to reduce the damage in the game, so I am very curious as to how a champion (such as {{champion:24}} ) is considered overpowered and not something that they always take in a lane (conq)
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: yeah thats what i meant too tho in my case champion = player. What i mean you could mark an item and if orn "upgrades you" that item would get the upgrade even if you have 2 or more upgradable item. This would solve the problem even for orn.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: or what about every champion can designate an item for orn to upgrade and only that item could be upgraded?
Maybe it just feels really random what gets upgraded and some champions will grab multiple of his upgrade items <locket and redemption> <ghostblade and cleaver> <sunfire iceborn and abysall> <hourglass deathcap and ludens> ornn himself also will just auto upgrade items even if he wanted a different one upgraded< he can be a sunfire iceborn abysal user>
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
Can {{champion:516}} get a select option for allies who have multiple items that can be upgraded? I wanted to upgrade my {{champion:25}} 's {{item:3157}} and it instead upgraded her {{item:3107}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 9
What/how do you consider what needs buff/nerfs, arguably jax and irelias problems stem from how OP conq is and how weak tanks are, however they are instead being nerfed, over the arguably problomatic conq. Just kinda interested in how that choice is made.
: > [{quoted}](name=BlueHeart,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=oA7EoIrf,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2018-12-22T00:21:52.600+0000) > > Also how about making {{item:1038}} sword have an actual build path instead of sitting on 1K gold for a 1300 item. Yeah, one could argue that NLR is in the same boat, but those items aren't "build first" items like IE is. I definitely agree to it being broken down to allow more fluid power in the early game.
My argument here is more that EVERYOTHER CHAMPION in the game can effectively spend 1K gold, for base components or to upgrade base components they already have, meanwhile ADCs are fucked cuz of this one item having such a high gold cost and being a mandatory buy, arguably {{item:1058}} doesn't ever have to be grabbed. Meanwhile for crit ADCs to have any AD, they NEED to build this thing to buy {{item:3031}} is a must have item on ALL of the crit marksman. keep in mind im a tank/bruiser player and i think that ADCs get screwed over just the fact that BF sword is needed for everything meanwhile {{item:1058}} is optional at best, seeing as it only builds into 2 situational items (arguably 1 item as spellbinders i never see and Dcap is oftentimes only grabbed when Void isn't needed.)
: https://youtu.be/lc5Cd4b5HWg?t=1 do this
Also how about making {{item:1038}} sword have an actual build path instead of sitting on 1K gold for a 1300 item.
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Crit Item Explorations
https://youtu.be/lc5Cd4b5HWg?t=1 do this
: Comparing the gold values of the different rune shard stats
: you know a starting place could be to add in the tank support shield item Face of the mountain or to address tank items in the first place, tanks have always been thou counter to fighters/diver/assassins and look tanks don't see play and you STILL have problematic champions after repeated nerfs who are all divers {{champion:84}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:266}} all of whom typically have hard times against traditional tanks such as {{champion:78}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} (less so but a good naut can stop akali in her tracks) yet these are all champions who have had their itemization messed with just for you to add other options ontop of that (conq, changed {{item:3035}} ) Keep in mind that these champs are only relevant when crit marksman are a thing, oh look {{champion:236}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}} are your strong adcs? the ones that typically struggle against tanks, people may not realizes this but tanks and crit marksman are both the bane of each others existence, and the only reason for the other to be around, the yin and yang, i would love to see more tank ITEM buffs, and tank items in general along with these crit marksman changes rather than nerf a champ who arguably doesn't need it and instead just needs something that can deal with her, also the game continues to feel like it has WAY too much damage even after statshards, and as many can attest it honest to god feels like there is even more damage now. Divers have never liked being CC'd yet the lack of hard constant CC is still relevant and in games where there is that CC you only need 1 second of it to blow people up, look at {{champion:39}} {{champion:164}} and {{champion:24}} all 3 should have some incentive to build items like {{item:3143}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} but instead you only see the same 3 items rushed on them at all times being {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}} , while {{item:3078}} can be discounted as its core on all of them the only defensive item they ever build anymore is {{item:3053}} and its not even really a defensive item, they don't have options. Nerfing the armor pen/magic pen and buffing tank items ( i dont mean nerf {{item:3033}} /{{item:3036}} and giving tank support an item that is better suited to protect crit marksman against AP assassins such as {{champion:84}} {{champion:7}} to help them scale can also help crit marksman feel better aswell, cuz a lot of times i feel pretty damn worthless against {{champion:84}} {{champion:39}} with the only real defensive item choice i have against them as a tank support is {{item:3109}} because i can never even get to {{item:3190}} and the the bonus HP from {{item:3401}} fells really bad even more so compared to the HP on other tank items, THAT ALSO FEEL BAD. And should i rush {{item:3190}} against the AP burst mages, the shield is so pitiful it just gets run through since supports are a lower level than solo laners.
Keep in mind i'm not saying irelia jax akali and camille aren't too strong the definitely are, but STRONG is relative to something else being the weaker champions, and items. were also still seeing {{item:3071}} users such as {{champion:122}} and {{champion:86}} still more often building {{item:3078}} because of the lack of a need for the armorshred on them since the champions who are strong are not building armor in the first place.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
you know a starting place could be to add in the tank support shield item Face of the mountain or to address tank items in the first place, tanks have always been thou counter to fighters/diver/assassins and look tanks don't see play and you STILL have problematic champions after repeated nerfs who are all divers {{champion:84}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:266}} all of whom typically have hard times against traditional tanks such as {{champion:78}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} (less so but a good naut can stop akali in her tracks) yet these are all champions who have had their itemization messed with just for you to add other options ontop of that (conq, changed {{item:3035}} ) Keep in mind that these champs are only relevant when crit marksman are a thing, oh look {{champion:236}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}} are your strong adcs? the ones that typically struggle against tanks, people may not realizes this but tanks and crit marksman are both the bane of each others existence, and the only reason for the other to be around, the yin and yang, i would love to see more tank ITEM buffs, and tank items in general along with these crit marksman changes rather than nerf a champ who arguably doesn't need it and instead just needs something that can deal with her, also the game continues to feel like it has WAY too much damage even after statshards, and as many can attest it honest to god feels like there is even more damage now. Divers have never liked being CC'd yet the lack of hard constant CC is still relevant and in games where there is that CC you only need 1 second of it to blow people up, look at {{champion:39}} {{champion:164}} and {{champion:24}} all 3 should have some incentive to build items like {{item:3143}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} but instead you only see the same 3 items rushed on them at all times being {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}} , while {{item:3078}} can be discounted as its core on all of them the only defensive item they ever build anymore is {{item:3053}} and its not even really a defensive item, they don't have options. Nerfing the armor pen/magic pen and buffing tank items ( i dont mean nerf {{item:3033}} /{{item:3036}} and giving tank support an item that is better suited to protect crit marksman against AP assassins such as {{champion:84}} {{champion:7}} to help them scale can also help crit marksman feel better aswell, cuz a lot of times i feel pretty damn worthless against {{champion:84}} {{champion:39}} with the only real defensive item choice i have against them as a tank support is {{item:3109}} because i can never even get to {{item:3190}} and the the bonus HP from {{item:3401}} fells really bad even more so compared to the HP on other tank items, THAT ALSO FEEL BAD. And should i rush {{item:3190}} against the AP burst mages, the shield is so pitiful it just gets run through since supports are a lower level than solo laners.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 7
I just wanted to ask why the ward nerfs, and are there any plans to make unflinching a more noticable rune? Because it will quickly become useless compared to legend tenacity with the freedom of rune choice decoupled from stats.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 26
So when are you address unflinching?
: > [{quoted}](name=BlueHeardt,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=f1s2Kk7r,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-09-12T15:59:47.139+0000) > > so whats the plan with {{item:3083}} seeing as its the only answer most tanks have against the lifesteal sustain of other champions? (hopefully not, just kill it cuz proplay) How does Warmogs help against lifesteal/sustain?
By matching it, most tanks lack sustain, meanwhile ad/fighters have many lifesteal items that are good into their kits, mages lack this, however most mages lack the need for sustain healing with either good range, or good burst, without warmogs tanks who stack resistances lack a needed HP item, and poke sustain [struggling class except for sion/cho gath oh look the infinte HP stackers its like resistance tanks are getting hard fucked by the amount of pen/true damage in the game] but all riot cares about atm is proplay. So why play unless youre on a stage?
Meddler (NA)
: Probably a lighter nerf e.g. slightly lower regen or same regen but turns off once you hit a certain health %. Those are just examples though, we don't have tactics in mind or in testing yet.
personally think a better nerf (not that i think the item even needs it and nerfing it b/c of proplay is really pissing off a lot of players btw) would be to increase the CD of it to like idk 10 seconds out of combat, that way if youre good and dodge skillshots youre not punished, and hitting somebody with it with poke is more effective
Meddler (NA)
: Likely we make some changes in preseason at least, possibly sooner. Amount of regen that combo, or variants on it, offers, is stalling some lanes out. We considered an adjustment in 8.19, but concluded that potential disruption to champions using just some of those effects in healthy ways means it's probably not worth the risk for the Worlds patch at least. Still discussing, so conceivable that changes, but more likely we do something a bit later.
so whats the plan with {{item:3083}} seeing as its the only answer most tanks have against the lifesteal sustain of other champions? (hopefully not, just kill it cuz proplay)
: i think that's just has to be a fact of garen thou, he doesnt really have as much skill expression as other champs, even other low elo champs like {{champion:11}} have more skill expression than captain beyblade. Its just kindof a fact with how simple his kit is.
an no im not saying simpler champions like {{champion:86}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:33}} dont have their place, but they need to be niche picks, not dominate ones, when {{champion:86}} started getting to the point where champions with high skill caps like{{champion:39}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:114}} were struggling against him (even though they are more skill expressive with the kit they have) even when doing everything they could to outplay him and still losing he needs to be re evaluated, im not saying he should be gut, but i think champs like {{champion:86}} {{champion:83}} and {{champion:122}} need to be addressed at an MMR where they are more viable, {{champion:83}} should not have gotten nerfed just because lower MMR's were struggling against him, i honestly thing a better nerf for {{champion:83}} would have been giving his ghouls a leash again, since in lower MMRs they are shoving waves while {{champion:83}} bases, giving him a favorable lane to come back to, something higher MMRs already do but lower MMR players may not, yet instead you nerfed his damage, when his damage wasnt a problem (a tangent i know) meanwhile {{champion:86}} may have a lower winrate in higher MMR's but thats because players have to get smarter with him (learning trades better learning rotations better) rather than just having this dominate lane where get gets fed and becomes incontestable. Just my personal thoughts thou. <3 i really do love this game and just want to see it strive to make its PLAYERS better aswell as the Champions.
Meddler (NA)
: Yeah, still interested in getting a bit more skill expression on Garen, though wouldn't prioritize it over working on other champs in more need right now. Wouldn't expect buffing his passive to be a particularly fruitful way of doing so though, given its a forgiveness mechanism for when Garen gets punished. Suspect best case scenario is that it's a very expensive way (in terms of power added) to get slight skill expression added, worst case scenario being that it significantly further widens the gap between low MMR and high MMR Garen play.
i think that's just has to be a fact of garen thou, he doesnt really have as much skill expression as other champs, even other low elo champs like {{champion:11}} have more skill expression than captain beyblade. Its just kindof a fact with how simple his kit is.
Meddler (NA)
: Seems reasonable right now? It's a decent and pretty common pick on tank supports, but not to the extent that they're crowding everything else out entirely or that it's 100% mandatory on them. Was there something more specific about it you were wondering?
its just not something people can rush and they need HP for it before it comes useful so vow is a mandatory item on most tank supports, and that is crowding out most other tank support options, where is our face of the mountain replacement? twin shadows and shyrelias exists now, so wheres our deadly phalanx?
RiotLamz (NA)
: Favorite/least favorite Running animation in League
favorite is prolly {{champion:39}} all of her animations are SMOOTH AS BUTTER least fav is probably {{champion:77}} hes just so meh a champion who overall needs a rework tbh
: The problem with making it so that someone such as leona can have more rune options, means she becomes pick ban. Buffing her to the point where she isnt "required" to go aftershock, then that means aftershock leona becomes disgustingly oppressive. Does that makes sense?
Im only saying to buff her HP/Level because removing sightstone+FotM really cut the amount of HP support tanks have, causing them to mostly fall off, most {{item:3302}} users are going {{item:3301}} since its hard to use those procs late game, and almost every support is just going tier 2 support item followed by whatever rush item, so tanks basically only have {{item:3109}}, {{item:3190}} could easily be tuned to have HP while still being a healthy item for support tanks, the problem is item poaching, however since most of the changes have been reverted off the PBE this point god only knows what riot will do, but im hoping this is signs of good change since they are hopefully fine tuning things and are realizing what tank support players want, more {{item:1028}} in our builds.
Yascob (NA)
: I disagree in some regards. I feel like it's a nerf to his mid-late game but a buff to his lvl 1-7. If you are playing him top you max his e first and w second. Also his w acts as a auto reset so shorter cooldown and lower mana costs make it easier to trade with. I find when playing naut top mana is a big problem. I also find that I use his shield more reactively than actively. So if they engage on me I either auto, w (for auto reset + free damage) then e. If they continue the trade at that point they lose out due to my shield if they retreat I get an extra auto due to the slow from e. However post rank 1 on w the scaling did get gutted pretty hard. I'd debate maxing my q second if these changes went through since the shield would see minimal changes on level and having q on a shorter cooldown makes laning a lot safer. In regards to the duration of the shield, honestly given how much of an all in champ naut is, I don't see it having too much of an effect unless you are in a tank vs tank matchup in which case post 7 it would just be a wet noodle fight. Honestly I feel like it makes it so that if you know when to shield, the change won't make a major difference. As for jungle, it's a straight up buff to his early clear. In the early clears the shield only lasts 2-4 seconds anyways before it's taken too much damage and it only lost 5 shield durability at rank 1. Again you probably should be maxing e for jungling anyways so until level 7, it's a buff. Also 6s off the cooldown should give him a healthier clear as well opening him up to earlier ganks and potentially allowing him to have it in an early skirmish. Overall his mid-late game will be weaker in every position, though.
thats why i had all the ????????????? cuz idk what to think of it, i kinda like it but i also kinda hate it, idk, i think they need to buff resolve tree, part of the reason tanks arent played is after they split the HP/Other stat of resolve tree, they then nerfed the base HP of it so tanks just take too long to scale and there is too much damage for them, the runes need to be reforged again.
: _Cue all the mega-tryhard assassin and skirmisher mains hating on this post because of their anti-tank bias despite half of them not being able to tell the difference between a tank and a fighter._
the idea is to help tanks and cuck them sideways, i play irelia and renekton ik this stuff is painful for them, but thats kinda the fucking point! that being said what do you think of the changes?
Comentários de Rioters
aezens (EUW)
: I don´t consider Nautilus changes a nerf rather than a rash buff. Cooldown is far more important than duration especially since it is unrealistic to assume a shield will sustain 10 seconds during a fight. However the main issue with these changes is that he would have almost 100% uptime on his shield with 40% cdr. Leona changes doesn´t make sense to me though. If you want to buff late game without affecting laning phase ... why are nerfs to the base values needed? Nonetheless buffing tanks is careless anyway considering the intended damage nerfs and there stable winrate around 50% within the last patches.
while yes this is true, these support tanks are struggling, {{champion:111}} has been buried at sea for a long time, and having an easier to burst out defensive tool (that 4% MAX HP lose is roughly 500-700 HP late game based on the build, that a huge chunk of HP) and {{champion:89}} is surely showing her feast or famine style of bot lane right now with her winrate at 40+mins going to 46% (since she gets outscaled by crit marksman she cant tank, shield supports she cant burst through and true damage she cant survive) uping leos res is not going to help against the true damage she has to take, part of this is conq the other part is she has so much less health after Face of the Mountain and sighstone got removed, making {{item:3190}} just feel terrible as a first buy shes lost. Keep in mind people (myself included) would rush ruby sightstone for the 500HP it gave with FotM 450, overall with those changes alone leona and naut lost roughly 600 HP by mid/late game. {{item:3109}} was around during this time but again it has PITAFUL HP at best
: I'm personally pretty confident that it's a buff, given that the w cd buff ends up being pretty meaty late game given that the resists linger for 3 seconds. That being said, we were talking about yesterday and agreed that it can definitely be read as a nerf (and it might be) so we figured we'd tease it out and get player feedback and iterate if need be. Right now we're instead likely just going to do W cd from 14 >>> 14-10 seconds, and reverting the rest of the changes
i want to just kinda explain why I personally view this as a nerf, sure the 40% CAN be a buff but only really during aftershock procs giving 40 extra armor and MR on the W during the VERY short duration of after shock (2.5 second not HALF of W's current duration if you get both procs) after that shes then gated by a 35 second CD for her next engage, thats A LONG ASS TIME for lane, meanwhile she getting super harassed out by all the poke bot laners {{champion:74}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:63}}, but she cant really go second wind without giving up even more scaling, plus then guardian/PTA/Electrocute/grasp or any other fun leo build DIES, and since she sometimes uses W to tank up while trying to farm her relic procs we only further hammer down on how this is a nerf, by all means late game YES this is a buff but leonas not GETTING to late, nobody is right now thats really the only thing keeping her up right now is the fact that her midgame is strong thanks to her W base stats, on top of her needing to rush health for her support item, and with the amount of true damage in the game she has incentive to rush even more HP, a stat that since {{item:3190}} got changed tank supports have been really lacking in{{item:3401}} only giving 350 and sight stones removal axing 500 from her. This just brings up another point that needs to be made for all tank, WE NEED HEALTH, however that debate is for another time, another change i would however consider for leona, just make her W tick longer, make it 5 seconds+5 seconds if she gets that detonation damage, actually UP the UPTIME, but or perhaps giving her some more base HP or HP/level to help her scale her resistances. i digress, i understand that balancing is hard, i dont mean to be an asshole/prick trying to shine light as to why i see it as a nerf. best of luck <3 {{sticker:poppy-wink}} EDIT: note that as of late leona has been going from sorcery/domination to inspiration for early HP and regen (biscuts and the HP on the resolve inspiration path) hence why i suggested increaseing her HP and Hp/Level so she can at least be a bit more free with her rune choices
: ***
aside from kench WHO is getting damage with these changes?
Aptest (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P4eh9Or5,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-03T18:09:10.297+0000) > > **Nautilus:** > Titan&amp;#039;s Wrath (W) nerf : shield power shield duration buff : shield cd (not suffiecient for increase # shields in pvp) shield cost Obviously aimed at buffing jungle clear. Secondary effect may be increasing trade opportunities in top lane. Noted naut is gated by positioning here a lot, need top lane player to comment on whether this is in fact a buff. What gates junglers? jungle clear speed, if not really bring up to speed, than will not matter. Other than that, still not able to 1v1 opposing jungler and not able to move about the jungle fast enough. contesting objectives without team ("1v1") not reasonable to buff because outside restriction of class. Then must compensate with map mobility to compete with low CD on jump skills from "lee sin" and other damage picks. suggest complement with further buff: mana refund on using Q for mobility. At support position, position gating on skills much heavier, cd on shield skill not effective at opening more trade opportunities. in addition, naut is a very all-in champion, punish of trade as retreat happens is painful, and this is increased due to both shield power and shield duration nerf. I.E. In support position naut does not benefit from buffs, but suffers from nerfs, therefor champion is reduced. I would have preferred to see mana refund on mobility Q as an overall buff, instead of suggested. This both buffs the support position and also makes the champion more fun to play (mobility is fun). > **Leona:** > Eclipse (W) > nerf : CD (early game) Base stats damage buff : CD (early mid game+) Scaling damage (late game only +, with ZE added) Not sure about how you presented the reasoning. This is obviously shifting her power from early game to mid-late game. Changing the power timings of the champion. She is overly oppressive early and useless late atm? > **Maokai** Same comments as for naut, but in this case is clear buff. idk. > > **Tahm Kench** > Goal: Reduce the overall availability of his defensive devour and better reward use in aggressive scenarios. Also tuning Q to give him a few more buttons to press in light of longer cd ally W, and reducing the slow to compensate. > > Tongue Lash (Q) nerf : CC duration buff : CD its more buttons to press but the button does less. And the skill to begin with isn't impressive. The main usage of this ability is to serve as a target access enabler, something TK has huge issues with regardless of position. the CC duration nerf hits the main usage for the ability. So despite "having more buttons to press" the button does less of what it's supposed to do, which is to allow TK to close to melee. Which is already an issue for him. > Devour / Regurgitate (W) nerf : CC duration Save duration Playmaking (with ally) duration Playmaking (with ally) follow up ability Play disruption duration Play disruption CD buff : Damage CD (on opponent) Mana cost. From my perspective this is a net decrease in the depth of the champion. TK's "money skill" is definitely his W. that's where the fun's at for this champion. The ability to save allies is nerfed. however eat ally to use the speed boost and close range with the ally, also nerfed: after this move you have to concede the rest of the play to your ally because your main skill is spend and you are left with a weak single target Q. Additionally the devour duration is a net decrease to the range of plays that TK is able to pull off. For me it's not as important that TK can push the same skill more times, but the range of moves that he has is more important. Perhaps a better compensation buff would have been to make QW combo more viable? For instance introducing a condition where W is not spent in this combo ? In the support position I will get very few of the benefits, and suffer most of the costs of this change. Given that in soloQ this champion is suffering, I (who played him in previous season extensively as a support) would want something more interesting and engaging than "more (but weaker) Q". NOTE: I get that TK is considered a BS champion because of his W. but then if we nerf it extensively, Q or E should become much more engaging skills. i mean visually i like them very much but other than that they don't do enough, at least for the soloQ support player.
the changes for naut top are a nerf since the duration is down, most champs will find it VERY easy to kite him out for the 6 second duration before trading him, the changes to {{champion:89}} and {{champion:111}} are straight up nerfs in all aspects, unless {{champion:89}} W becomes total armor SHE IS AT BEST reliant on after shock, the Naut changes are just ????????????????????????????? at best, and amumus changes dont play off grenade amumu the only one people can all agree is the fun one to play
: Nobody is going to play Tahm Kench as support if you increase the CD on his W. That's his most important skill that enables him to actually do his job and save an ally. Also, Leona's "buffs"are actually a nerf. As mentioned, most of the changes won't become noticeable until mid game, and that is IF she gets ahead. And now, when games barely last longer than 20 min (and that's only because somebody always refuses to surrender at 15), it really is nothing but a nerf. Not to mention that - guess what - some people actually play her top as well. God forbid you let her be viable in more lanes than one. You want feedback? THERE'S TOO MUCH DAMAGE IN THE GAME. Better focus on actually reducing all damage than making it harder to save anybody from it.
People will play him top and just murder things then hell get nerfed for being oppressive
: Tank changes for 8.16
The leona changes are actually over all nerfs since shes getting too harrassed by the bot lane mages, uping her HP/5 and her Q stun duration/passive damage makes more sense, OR let her ult let her proc her own passive with the empowered AA she gets
: Tank changes for 8.16
I think youll break kench top letting him have base 27% max HP damage on a 14 second CD, thats more damage than most if not all other top laners, since kench tops can max W first if its better than Q, and these changes make it much better to max W first, cutting the supression doesnt matter if youre belly side up, in his belly anyway
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 1
Still wonder personally on the changes to tanks, as i do love them, im still pressing the god kings MUST fall down however, they are just too strong and a reason tanks are not seeing play
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 27
I honestly feel like the starting point to helping a lot of top lane tanks is just fixing {{item:3068}} to not have its god awful build path, and lackluster waveclear followed by giving {{item:3751}} just more options, this item is a for sure need on most of the tank top laners, yet when {{item:3751}} was changed to better fit {{item:1401}} users, {{item:3068}} got nerfed to compensate ontop of {{item:3751}} itself getting it HP nerf, albiet at the time that was needed, now with 20% true damage on conq+AD on it ( something people said bruiser needed but really they didnt as even before it was released champs like {{champion:164}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} and old {{champion:39}} were already cutting through said tanks)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
Dear Meddler, While i kinda dropped off the 3v3 games, its only because of the gold funnel strategy, while my friends and I used to play it regularly, what ended up killing it for us was the gold funneling For me personally it kinda just breaks the core of 3v3, is that really what the game mode should be? a 2v2 lane and thats also farming the jungle with a 1v1 lane bot? and then theres some of the items that are fairly worthless like {{item:3193}} seeing as it doesnt even work properly, since you kill 1 person and lose 50% of the stats the of the item {{champion:102}} doesnt even really have a passive in the game mode, since the first vilemaw will normally end the game there also the problems with other items such as {{item:3090}} giving hourglass and Dcap at the same time, making AP champs have an even easier time, {{item:3170}} being just messy since its kinda meant for tanks but also ap champs? {{item:3104}} being the only item that incentives getting both alters, alters being near worthless to begin with {{item:3307}} {{item:3311}} (since you can get this and {{item:3905}} ) {{item:3306}} all giving free gold and making the game less a 3v3 and more a 2.5v2.5 as champions like {{champion:44}} become stunbots. also theres already disincentive to go there. Got and S? no token, even though its arguably just as hard or harder. while im not as experinced as some i do really love the game mode, but if gold funneling is a problem in summoners rift, how is it NOT a problem in TT? where theres even less people to deal with an insanely fed champion?
Comentários de Rioters
Novalas (NA)
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.12
any word on {{champion:78}} and {{champion:163}} ? the changes ended up make both weaker overall, even after some time has allowed (albiet {{champion:163}} did JUST get a micropatch buff so) for things to settle out. a suggestion if i may however, if future champs are planned with these sort of reworks, how about things like extra base HP MR and AR to help when relearn/new players learn the champs, may help with some of them feeling weaker, and if needed could even stay, ({{champion:78}} getting some extra HP and AD could help bump her up a bit, and {{champion:163}} getting a bit more HP and MR than she actually got could help her out aswell.)
Novalas (NA)
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.11
(broken record here) I just wanted to ask if {{champion:78}} is on the radar with the new item changes? all of these hybrid bruiser items seem to effect her thanks to her in part being one of the few (if only) defensive AD tank in the game. Things like the new atamas rekoning and Spear of sojin synergize VERY well with her kit,(her Q having and 80% AD ratio that procs 2 times, plus her E having basically a 100% ratio if you can get a wallstun) not that i mind seening my loveable yordles hammer actually feeling like it could crush giant monsters (or small adolescents with mini guns) more interested in what to expect if these items become her dominate buildpath, would she be tweaked back towards being a tank, or be allowed to have the option of building these items effectively (as she currently can)
: While I'd like to confirm that with every piece of feedback, we get so much that simply confirming "your feedback is heard" on all of it would actually be surprisingly time consuming.
i agree with this, but i do believe that post like were having right here are also needed, sure not every forum can be read/replied to, but outliers like this one (after the chaos has settled) or long and clearly thought out and processed ones, (like ishatoffs poppy mains survey) should have some attention, its all part of just breaking this feel that the boards are an echo chamber. I LOVE that ive actually gotten feedback, i LOVE that you commented back, and hell yes i will admit im biased as hell towards poppy, but i still just want her to be in a niche/viable state, and yah sure i wouldnt want to go somewhere where people just shout and hate at me, ( as a nurse IK that feel) thank you for your time however <3
Fearless (NA)
: While the tone of boards is often not great, that just means that it's harder to engage, not to read. Appreciate the post. I know doing something like this represents a lot of time and thought, and this is exactly the sort of post I'd personally love to see more often.
these kindof replies NEED to be made more often thank you
: I think it means they listened and decided to go ahead with it anyway. It's easy to understand why, as the changes make her more intuitive and hopefully feel better
so then say it, say this post was read and got our attention, but have decided to go ahead for X reason. Transparency.
: Champions mains are not always an unbiased source of great feedback. Oftentimes champion mains main a champion because they are in love with the gameplay that currently exists and are resilient to any type of change. I am an Anivia main (and have been since ~2011). When we reworked Anivia so that she could not simply R-> E targets and nuke them while buffing her R and W, anivia mains constantly pmed me and told me that the changes were going to kill the champion, she'd be unplayable garbage, and that me and the designer had no idea how much we were dumpstering the champion. Anivia promptly rose to be one of the highest winrate mid laners for a large amount of time before nerfs/meta shifts/etc.
but does that mean we should get no feedback? all im asking for is for some responds. a give and a take. i SAID before the poppy changes went live that the MS nerfs did not end up power netural with the E range, as such we now see her MS getting buffed back up. All were asking for is when somebody makes a 7 page essay for a comment of "Noted, we appreciate your love of a champ so much you put this much effort into something!"
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