Koiyaki (NA)
: i literally touched on this, cuz then it will promote people getting angry at the people who do mute/ dont use it.
> [{quoted}](name=Koiyaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T23:18:14.907+0000) > > i literally touched on this, cuz then it will promote people getting angry at the people who do mute/ dont use it. But doesn't this argument also apply to typing in chat? A feature we already have? People can (and do) get angry when other people mute/don't type back, but that's already a feature Riot allows us to have. By extension of this people should be allowed to use Voice Communication as well since it has all the negatives regular typing already has, EXCEPT being able talk instead of type has the positive of allowing players to convey information faster should they want to.
Lenaro (NA)
: It's long overdue that League has the option for voice chat. Plenty of people wouldn't use it - and that's fine, but it would at least allow for ease of communication without needing to try to quickly share a link before match start and hope everyone saw it. One of the larger benefits of premade teams is their ability to assist with callouts, that ability is sorely lacking. Pinging is a poor substitute for better and faster information.
> [{quoted}](name=Lenaro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2020-01-28T21:36:14.131+0000) > What's this? Some centrist maniac saying Riot should add voice chat and people should have the option to disable it if they don't want to use it? Begone heathen! You have to pick a side: either we ALL have to hear the ten year olds screaming constantly or NOONE DOES. /s
Koiyaki (NA)
: My thing is that its basically just another avenue for trolls(whether they be flaming or being overly loud/yelling). Then theres the whole thing of people making fun of peopls voices but thats anoyher thing. Then theres the flaming of people who are in chat at the people who dont wanna use the chat and people false reporting them for not communicating ( those reports wont do anything but that doeant stop people from complaining) Like in premades/ with friends vc can be fun and great...but the internet is garbage. Yes i understand other games arr different environments but from playing fighting games, playing overwatch, using discord for endgame raids on wow and ffxiv...its barely ever been a good experience for me, even if we're stomping. People are garbage and rito is just trying to stop just a tiny bit of headache for themselves to try and monitor. So like i dont want it cuz i just think itll bring more negativity that actual communication.
> [{quoted}](name=Koiyaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2020-01-28T21:19:46.009+0000) > That's fine then. It's not for you. You can choose to disable it the way you can disable voice chat in other games, but why deny it to the people who want it?
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:39:09.887+0000) > > And here's the solution to all your complaints: the mute button. Voice chat isn't going to fix every communication issue in every situation, but why deny people the ability to have it? Because there will be situations where people won't want to use it? You're telling me I can't have voice chat because there will be times where you won't want it but will be two lazy to disable it? How is that fair? So... mute them? Did you even read what I said about that? The whole "the game would just become X"? Part of my argument? Sorry to say this but how is it fair for me to be at an even bigger disadvantage because someone muted everyone and now we have no way of actually communicating with them? What would be the point if we still had to use text and ping to communicate with these people? How is it fair to those without proper mic setups to be forced to either use mics or get screwed over?
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T21:21:53.886+0000) > > So... mute them? Did you even read what I said about that? The whole "the game would just become X"? Part of my argument? Sorry to say this but how is it fair for me to be at an even bigger disadvantage because someone muted everyone and now we have no way of actually communicating with them? What would be the point if we still had to use text and ping to communicate with these people? How is it fair to those without proper mic setups to be forced to either use mics or get screwed over? Because this is the 21st century and every other competitive multiplayer game has the option of verbal communication. Even LEAGUE already has it, it's just restricted to duo queue and parties is all. Your argument has no leg to stand on: it's already in the game, people are already using it to improve their chances of winning, & I'm simply advocating equal access to all players for it. There are times when players won't want to use it or don't want to listen to other players, but that should be the PLAYERS CHOICE. Not your choice. Not my choice. And not Riot's.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:31:04.275+0000) > > How would you be able to come to a conclusion that a feature in a game isn't useful when you didn't even use it ONCE in the game? Or are you just trying to move the goalposts because you're losing the argument? Why do i have to explain that? If i haven't noticed it even exists, then it was not used that often. So, judging by this, i argue that this might not be that useful. It's not moving a goalpost, it's deduction. And since i ruffled your feathers so much that you spam my feed with your comments, i'll just bring my answers into one post. > I never said it would go away, I said it would be reduced. Giving a team better communication abilities gives them a better chance to start winning the game, and players are definitively less toxic when they're winning games as I've said. There will always be people who act toxic regardless, but fewer mistakes means fewer reasons to get toxic, and proper communication is the easiest way to avoid mistakes. Giving people more ways of abusing teammates isn't really good for the state of the game. Sure, this might be a positive influence, but there's just as many arguments that it will create just more toxicity. > It LITERALLY has the ability to eliminate situations where people who get angry at one another because of miscommunication. Instead of trying to figure out what that DANGER ping means and getting dove after trying to decipher it, you just hear a teammate say 'Zac is in river Top go back to turret.' This situation LITERALLY reduces the chances of these two players being toxic to one another because they could more clearly communicate what was happening than just by pinging. I'll argue with this: Is speaking aloud a whole sentence really that faster than using 2-3 simple commands with a mouse and keyboard? Hearing a ping usually puts people into alert anyway, so they are more likely to avoid being ganked, for example.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T21:11:36.634+0000) > > Why do i have to explain that? If i haven't noticed it even exists, then it was not used that often. So, judging by this, i argue that this might not be that useful. It's not moving a goalpost, it's deduction. We could also deduce that you did little in Smite beyond playing a handful of games with new players also learning the game, decided it wasn't for you, and moved one before you could actually try using the feature with players who actually knew about it, so lack of experience eliminates your ability to make any real conclusion. > Giving people more ways of abusing teammates isn't really good for the state of the game. Sure, this might be a positive influence, but there's just as many reasons that it will create just more toxicity. So because it has the potential to bring positives and negatives, we don't get to have it at all? Even though it would personally never affect you since you can choose to disable it? How is this fair to the people who actually want it? > I'll argue with this: Is speaking aloud a whole sentence really that faster than using 2-3 simple commands with a mouse and keyboard? Hearing a ping usually puts people into alert anyway, so they are more likely to avoid being ganked, for example. Is someone shouting 'DANGER DANGER DANGER' more informative than someone saying 'Talon is roaming top lane?' Not to mention there are specific situations where a person can 2v1 so depending on who's approaching their lane. It's also easier to coordinate a gank since instead of pinging ASSIST ME ASSIST ME ASSIST ME you can say 'sit in the tri bush and wait for me to say go' or 'come straight to the lane don't sit in bush and wait.' There are millions of scenarios where voice communication can be a monumental improvement over the handful of different pings. It's the entire reason pro players sit next to each other and communicate with headsets instead of being placed in little seperate cubicles forced only to communicate with pings and typing (imagine how many teams would drop out if that were the case.) And again, what's your argument for not allowing people to have this solution? That you're too lazy to hit the mute button?
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:00:43.270+0000) > > And you can mute assholes and trolls just like you can mute assholes and trolls who type in the game. Those who actually want to try and win the game (namely ranked players) will use it as a tool to try and improve their chances of winning. Why would you deny voice chat simply because it can be abused? Your argument could be made for typing as well and we have THAT don't we? You argue that voice chat will reduce toxicity, and there's a clear case that it will not.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:26:10.665+0000) > > You argue that voice chat will reduce toxicity, and there's a clear case that it will not. It LITERALLY has the ability to eliminate situations where people who get angry at one another because of miscommunication. Instead of trying to figure out what that *DANGER* ping means and getting dove after trying to decipher it, you just hear a teammate say 'Zac is in river Top go back to turret.' This situation LITERALLY reduces the chances of these two players being toxic to one another because they could more clearly communicate what was happening than just by pinging.
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:09:58.569+0000) > > And how much harder would it be to coordinate strategy if you DIDN'T have voice chat to coordinate gameplay? And by extension how much angrier/annoyed players would get for losing because they cant communicate properly with each other? yeah because people blasting their music while they play, using shitty mics that you could barely understand them, people who think that the best way to use a mic is to either have them as far away as possible or in their literal mouths is going to make things easier. People with noisy houses/neighbors. This is not even mentioning people with annoying voices or weird accents that you just can't stand or comprehend. All those things are going to make it so much easier to communicate right? If you aren't using the current chat or pings then sorry to say this but a voice chat isn't going to help communication. Hell even assuming what you say is correct then it becomes a game of "who has the team with less muted people" to give a gigantic advantage to either team. If you aren't able to communicate properly currently then that's on you and only you. I have seen so many people throughout all elos being able to communicate what they want to do with little problem. There is more than enough downtime in the game that you can just type what you want. Learn to type easy simple and short sentences. Hell even single words followed by pings is enough in most situations regardless of elo.
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:30:16.151+0000) > > yeah because people blasting their music while they play, using shitty mics that you could barely understand them, people who think that the best way to use a mic is to either have them as far away as possible or in their literal mouths is going to make things easier. People with noisy houses/neighbors. This is not even mentioning people with annoying voices or weird accents that you just can't stand or comprehend. All those things are going to make it so much easier to communicate right? And here's the solution to all your complaints: the mute button. Voice chat isn't going to fix every communication issue in every situation, but why deny people the ability to have it? Because there will be situations where people won't want to use it? You're telling me I can't have voice chat because there will be times where you won't want it but will be two lazy to disable it? How is that fair?
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:00:43.270+0000) > > And you can mute assholes and trolls just like you can mute assholes and trolls who type in the game. Those who actually want to try and win the game (namely ranked players) will use it as a tool to try and improve their chances of winning. Why would you deny voice chat simply because it can be abused? Your argument could be made for typing as well and we have THAT don't we? You argue that voice chat will reduce toxicity, and there's a clear case that it will not.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:26:10.665+0000) > > You argue that voice chat will reduce toxicity, and there's a clear case that it will not. I never said it would go away, I said it would be reduced. Giving a team better communication abilities gives them a better chance to start winning the game, and players are definitively less toxic when they're winning games as I've said. There will always be people who act toxic regardless, but fewer mistakes means fewer reasons to get toxic, and proper communication is the easiest way to avoid mistakes.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:23:05.541+0000) > > Idk it works pretty well in smite and that is more comparable. > > The player bases of cod and those games are very different then league's. Smite has Voice Chat? Weird, i played it a few years ago, and never noticed it. Maybe that's because it's not that useful?
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:25:02.174+0000) > > Smite has Voice Chat? Weird, i played it a few years ago, and never noticed it. Maybe that's because it's not that useful? How would you be able to come to a conclusion that a feature in a game isn't useful when you didn't even use it ONCE in the game? Or are you just trying to move the goalposts because you're losing the argument?
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:05:04.084+0000) > > And yet every other competitive game thats been created has voice chat and seems to function perfectly fine, doesn't it? And it's still never a great experience to have. Don't be a sheep.
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:06:17.615+0000) > > And it's still never a great experience to have. Don't be a sheep. So because you personally dislike the experience means no one should be allowed to have it? How does that make sense? Is it really that much of an effort to disable voice chat that players who want it shouldn't be allowed to have it?
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:54:36.828+0000) > > There is but for arbitrary reasons they refuse to add it to solo queue so you can talk with the random players in your game Arbitrary reasons? Even a 10 years old knows better not to have it in public chat at all. I know this because I'm seeing him screaming vulgar insults at his team through Voice Chat.
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T20:00:25.931+0000) > > Arbitrary reasons? Even a 10 years old knows better not to have it in public chat at all. I know this because I'm seeing him screaming vulgar insults at his team through Voice Chat. And yet every other competitive game thats been created has voice chat and seems to function perfectly fine, doesn't it?
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:33:05.082+0000) > > That is definitively false because as I've said voice communication opens up the opportunity for dialogue instead of having to spend 5 minutes typing out essays to one another. Dude, voice comms also open up opportunity for toxic asshole kids to troll you. Just go and actually play a game with voice chat, you will see.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:36:57.641+0000) > > Dude, voice comms also open up opportunity for toxic asshole kids to troll you. Just go and actually play a game with voice chat, you will see. And you can mute assholes and trolls just like you can mute assholes and trolls who type in the game. Those who actually want to try and win the game (namely ranked players) will use it as a tool to try and improve their chances of winning. Why would you deny voice chat simply because it can be abused? Your argument could be made for typing as well and we have THAT don't we?
Kroda13 (NA)
: Isnt there already Voice Chat?
> [{quoted}](name=Kroda13,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:37:50.051+0000) > > Isnt there already Voice Chat? There is but for arbitrary reasons they refuse to add it to solo queue so you can talk with the random players in your game
: Joining a voice chat with random people is a commitment that, if added, would make me and many others not want to play the game as much. If I play with you and then decide I like you and want to play more with you, then I will voice chat with you, but I'm not going to voice chat with 4 strangers every match, that is a lot of stress I don't want to deal with. I don't really like talking to new people. If I am going to play a few games with you that is a different story, and discord and league's voice chat work for that. And not using the voice chat isn't really an option either, I have played other games like Overwatch where random people are raging at me in voice chat because I don't want to talk to them. I shouldn't be expected to and that expectation will drive many people away from the game. EDIT: Also, I don't like your poll options so I am not voting in it. Your answer options are yes, no, and yes, which presents the idea up front that your argument has more merit than your opposition which is very disrespectful and doesn't help your chances at generating a positive discussion.
> [{quoted}](name=Zezockary,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:44:00.672+0000) > > Joining a voice chat with random people is a commitment that, if added, would make me and many others not want to play the game as much. If I play with you and then decide I like you and want to play more with you, then I will voice chat with you, but I'm not going to voice chat with 4 strangers every match, that is a lot of stress I don't want to deal with. I don't really like talking to new people. If I am going to play a few games with you that is a different story, and discord and league's voice chat work for that. > > And not using the voice chat isn't really an option either, I have played other games like Overwatch where random people are raging at me in voice chat because I don't want to talk to them. I shouldn't be expected to and that expectation will drive many people away from the game. You also have the option to disconnect from the chat in Overwatch so you can't hear people screaming at you to connect, so I don't really see how that's relevant. Also, if you can't communicate/interact with other people, maybe don't play the multiplayer games where you're kind of obligated to be able to communicate/interact with othe people to be able to win? Also imagine your argument if you were trying to defend not adding the chat we already have and you'll notice how laughable it is. 'I'm uncomfortable typing with strangers on the internet, so don't let other people have the ability to type with one another in the multiplayer game.' And surely even if you have social issues you can accept the allowance of a voice chat in ranked play so people can coordinate as best as they can.
: Let's be honest, Riot doesn't care about toxic players
You're new so I'll explain: Riot care less about verbally toxic players than you expect them to because they SHOULDN'T care about verbally toxic players. There's this neat little feature they added called the 'mute button,' and when someone says a mean word to you you can just press that button and **POOF** no more mean words. After your learn that button exists, you no longer expect big daddy Riot to be up there pushing it for you, so you just stop caring really. As for actual game toxicity like intentionally feeding and disconnecting, I agree it's hard for the system to pick up on it sometimes but boy oh boy is it satisfying when it does.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:09:58.569+0000) > > And how much harder would it be to coordinate strategy if you DIDN'T have voice chat to coordinate gameplay? And by extension how much angrier/annoyed players would get for losing because they cant communicate properly with each other? About the same. Unless you are premade, then there's a point to be made. Although most premades use different clients to communicate.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:21:54.335+0000) > > About the same. Unless you are premade, then there's a point to be made. Although most premades use different clients to communicate. That is definitively false because as I've said voice communication opens up the opportunity for dialogue instead of having to spend 5 minutes typing out essays to one another.
: It will be harder to report them because if they say over voice call "Fuck you feeder troll I'm inting" or some ZT word it will be hard to prove that. Especially if they soft int. I do want a voice com though it will be easier to communicate efficiently with the team about objectives than typing it.
> [{quoted}](name=Pombagira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-01-28T19:07:07.147+0000) > > It will be harder to report them because if they say over voice call "Fuck you feeder troll I'm inting" or some ZT word it will be hard to prove that. Especially if they soft int. > I do want a voice com though it will be easier to communicate efficiently with the team about objectives than typing it. Again enforcing the reality that Riot's policy towards verbal abuse just doesn't work; they shouldn't have tried to regulate toxicity at all and left it to the discretion of the players. Now there's a modern feature the game is lacking because players can't just hit the mute button and be done with it; they need some sort of punishment to follow to make themselves feel better about the situation.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: Go play R6 Siege, Cod, Battlefield or any other of the hundreds other shooters and then come back. Trust me, voice chat is just as toxic as it's text based counterpart.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo6vETVM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-28T18:53:26.504+0000) > > Go play R6 Siege, Cod, Battlefield or any other of the hundreds other shooters and then come back. > > Trust me, voice chat is just as toxic as it's text based counterpart. And how much harder would it be to coordinate strategy if you DIDN'T have voice chat to coordinate gameplay? And by extension how much angrier/annoyed players would get for losing because they cant communicate properly with each other?
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fwy5cTgz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-23T05:57:24.978+0000) > > And most juggernauts have historically always done well against most tanks. There is a difference in "good" and S tier base damage as TRUE damage WITH superb scaling. Sett's W outdamages MOST of the ultimates in league, and he's already north of 52% win rate as a new release. People aren't even good with the champ yet and he's wrecking people. This isn't even just in lower elo. He's 52.4% win rate Top lane in Plat+ and rising. Does this seriously look healthy to you? https://imgur.com/a/9YsuA5h
> [{quoted}](name=The Bad Touch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fwy5cTgz,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2020-01-23T07:47:03.880+0000) > > There is a difference in "good" and S tier base damage as TRUE damage WITH superb scaling. Sett's W outdamages MOST of the ultimates in league, and he's already north of 52% win rate as a new release. People aren't even good with the champ yet and he's wrecking people. This isn't even just in lower elo. He's 52.4% win rate Top lane in Plat+ and rising. > > Does this seriously look healthy to you? > > https://imgur.com/a/9YsuA5h I mean the bigger giveaway he's fine is NOONE'S banning him in upper elo on account of how easy he it to punish. It makes sense he has a higher on release winrate than most champs since he's incredibly easy/straightforward to play, and he's stronger than average against players who don't know how to kite & players who pick big clunky champions into him (the entirety of silver, bronze, and iron players.) He's somewhat comparable to {{champion:122}} in that he's a melee focused champion low elo players will never be able to wrap their heads around how to counter, only he's an objectively fairer version since he only has one damaging ability that's fairly easy to dodge and he doesn't have the potential to literally 1v5.
: Sett W having such high base damage even without grit is incredibly frustrating.
> [{quoted}](name=PopcornBunni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fwy5cTgz,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-23T04:51:26.952+0000) > I guess the counterplay to the non-grit side of his W is "sit under tier 2 tower and wait for Sett to go oneshot your midlaner so you can farm without taking a quarter of your health in true damage" Or you could just, yknow, DODGE the ability since it has a pretty slow windup time. The base damage for it might be a tad strong sure and, but all that needs to be done is shifting some of that damage into grit buildup. Besides that, it's a pretty fair ability considering it's his only reliable form of damage in his entire kit; Q is just an autoattack (it's been memed into oblivion how easy it is to kite melee champs,) he pretty much has to be standing next to you to land his E and it doesn't even deal damage, and his ultimate is going to remain one of the hardest abilities to land properly in the game due to his lack of repositioning.
: I don't think we need any more bans. {{champion:157}} is fine, {{champion:35}} seems fine too unless you fall for his giga trolly-ness and walk into a bush that clearly has 5 boxes in it and you die then complain, yeah I'll give you {{champion:235}} she's busted atm. {{champion:523}} is a little overtuned but nothing crazy, and dar dar binks is the ultimate low elo pubstomp, can't say anything more about him than git gud. {{champion:82}} might be a little strong but again just needs a tiny numbers adjustment.
> [{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Mqan0E4j,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-12-18T17:19:16.563+0000) > > {{champion:82}} might be a little strong but again just needs a tiny numbers adjustment. I think he probably needs more than just a few number adjustments with AP being in the state it's in. The MR items being garbage on top of the the pen he gets from his e makes building to counter him pretty much pointless, & taking only three procs to trigger his passive lets him annihilate anyone who doesn't have a dash in their kit, i.e. just further dumpstering on the champions trying to build mr against him. Really the big thing they need to do is make certain AP items melee only that give more health/less ap, & give the ranged ap items less health/more ap so ap bruiser can play like actual bruisers instead of bursting people like assassins. But until that day comes, I'd say the best way to fix him is to make Morde's e penetration be a flat amount rather than % pen so building mr doesn't feel totally pointless, or change his passive to proc after 4 hits instead of 3 so he can't proc it every single trade. They could also distribute the move speed he gets across his stacks to make up for it being a little bit harder to proc now, or make the damage a bit higher.
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-17T20:33:03.422+0000) > > Where are these stats you're using to support your argument? Every site I've checked has him hovering above a 50% wr since October So your argument is that anyone who has over a 50% win rate is overpowered? As of right now, there are 99 champions with over a 50% winrate. Are they all overpowered? Explain your red herring here cause you're not making sense. As I stated from the beginning Morde has been around a 51% win rate before 9.23. That is not overpowered. He was in the top 10 champions top lane but that does not mean he needs nerfs. He just means he's a good pick. You keep throwing around the term "overpowered" and it completely loses any meaning. Understanding why a champion is strong vs just asking for nerfs is the difference between good balancing and poor balancing.
> [{quoted}](name=OneMustFall,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-17T21:12:46.127+0000) > > So your argument is that anyone who has over a 50% win rate is overpowered? As of right now, there are 99 champions with over a 50% winrate. Are they all overpowered? Explain your red herring here cause you're not making sense. > > As I stated from the beginning Morde has been around a 51% win rate before 9.23. That is not overpowered. He was in the top 10 champions top lane but that does not mean he needs nerfs. He just means he's a good pick Wait I'm not even the one who brought up his winrate to begin with. That was YOU lol. You said 'the proof is in the stats its conquerors fault he's strong now' and now you're telling me 'the stats don't matter lots of champions have above a 50% winrate and they aren't op.' And >You keep throwing around the term "overpowered" and it completely loses any meaning. Understanding why a champion is strong vs just asking for nerfs is the difference between good balancing and poor balancing. I'm sorry, what did I bring up that made it sound like I was just 'throwing the word overpowered around?' I mentioned the problem with AP & MR items which the entirety of the community has agreed is a problem & how his penetration on the e exacerbates that, I mentioned the 3 procs make it way too easy for him to win trades against melee champions which his winrates against all melee champions that aren't {{champion:24}} {{champion:84}} &{{champion:114}} support, & then I talked about the problem with his ulti which... come on man, you've got the icon for God's sake. I don't think any of these things are OP 'because I said,' I think they're problems that have existed that people have talked about that noones addressed. Also, alot of what I suggested weren't even straight up nerfs, just changes to give melee champions a bit more counterplay potential. EDIT: Wait, you don't even play top lane OR Mordekaiser for that matter. Why the fuck are you pretending like you understand what's going on here?
EATARI (NA)
: I think that's the danger of the _"One Trick"_ in general. Regardless if they are difficult or strong, you neglect practicing any fundamentals, and can only think of interactions within the framing of your main. You'd simply lack the ability to adapt to unique situations.
> [{quoted}](name=EATARI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oIi8dv77,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-12-17T20:09:44.040+0000) > > I think that's the danger of the _"One Trick"_ in general. Regardless if they are difficult or strong, you neglect practicing any fundamentals, and can only think of interactions within the framing of your main. You'd simply lack the ability to adapt to unique situations. Well, that's part of it, yes, but my point about it affecting 'difficult champion' one tricks was that 'difficult champions' usually have such incredibly overstuffed kits it's playing the game with training wheels essentially, and removing those wheels makes you fall over pretty hard
: the hit box is smaller closer to him and the wind up is huge, if u have the MS just walk a litle towards him and toward the side and engage after he uses his main damage ability and win, if not bait it bc it has a giant wind up.
> [{quoted}](name=LuthianDelphi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-12-17T20:25:01.614+0000) > > the hit box is smaller closer to him and the wind up is huge, if u have the MS That's my point. I said he dicks on champions that are dont have dashes or are slow. I know how to beat him, I play him a pretty fair amount. My point is you can't build resistances to counter him because MR items are extremely weak & his % pen makes it even worse.
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-17T20:02:33.928+0000) > > Wrong. Morde was already a problem for the reasons I already explained. He'd been hovering in the top 5 toplaners before the conq rework, all it did was bring attention to how overpowered he already was. Just calling something overpowered doesn't make it so. You can think what you want but his stats before 9.23 clearly showed otherwise.
> [{quoted}](name=OneMustFall,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-17T20:08:25.304+0000) > > Just calling something overpowered doesn't make it so. You can think what you want but his stats before 9.23 clearly showed otherwise. Where are these stats you're using to support your argument? Every site I've checked has him hovering above a 50% wr since October
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-12-17T16:39:31.431+0000) > > You can't blame just Conqueror when it's already been nerfed once and has had next to no impact on his winrate. His passive procs way to easily and lets him dumpster every melee champion in trades (except {{champion:114}} &{{champion:84}} maybe, but those abominations might as well be ranged for all intents and purposes.) His Q is probably too strong against anyone who doesnt have a dash; the counterplay should be to hide in the minion wave but it still smacks you there for a ton. The state of MR is a joke right now, so building it to counter Morde's damage is as laughable as it is with every other AP champ. Which of course brings us to the problem with his E, which is probably still gives him probably way too much magic pen & just further spits in your face when you try to build to counter him. > > All these issues can be fixed with number tweaking (though I'd only fix one or two of these things since fixing them all would probably make him garbage,) but the one issue that can't is how strong his QSS tax is on the opposing team with his ulti. The item is just so worthless in stats you're team is at a pretty significant disadvanatage for having to build it, & before they can get it ult is just always going to stack the odds of winning a teamfight super high. Either youre ahead & ult the carry to kill them, or you're behind, build tank & ult their carry or core engage to take them out of the fight so your team can win 4v4. No shit. Because all they did was nerf the duration and nerfed the healing for Ranged champions only. Why would that effect Morde at all? Morde was not a problem before the Conqueror changes. He didn't get buffs in any way so he didn't magically become stronger from nothing. Master Yi and Kled also abuse Conqueror and are way stronger with that Rune than they were previously. Conqueror is obviously the problem and not Morde.
> [{quoted}](name=OneMustFall,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-12-17T18:59:47.095+0000) > Morde was not a problem before the Conqueror changes. He didn't get buffs in any way so he didn't magically become stronger from nothing. Master Yi and Kled also abuse Conqueror and are way stronger with that Rune than they were previously. Conqueror is obviously the problem and not Morde. Did you read my post at all? I said Morde was already a problem for the all the reasons I already explained. He'd been hovering in the top 5 toplaners well before the conq rework, all it did was bring attention to how overpowered he already was.
: Champion complexity/difficulty VS Power Budget.
The one thing noone can ever debunk about 'difficult' champions is the study Riot did on Riven one tricks in which they found out one trick Riven players getting Riven banned in games affects their winrate more negatively than any other one trick in the game. This means if you use Riven to climb to Diamond, and your Riven gets banned in a Diamond game, you're hilariously out of your depth since playing any other champion puts you at a Plat level of skill, maybe even high gold. So it might be difficult to learn Riven at first, but playing her and knowing how to play her inarguably lowers the difficulty level of the game. For proof of this we saw something similar this weekend during the TCS when Yassuo's team lost extremely hard against Voyboy's team since Voy target banned all of Moe's champions ({{champion:84}} {{champion:157}} & {{champion:39}} i think it was?) & forced him to play {{champion:13}}. Moe lost his proverbial training wheels and lost the game hard for his team.
: Morde doesn't actually need nerfs. Conqueror needs nerfs. Before the Conqueror changes, Morde's win rate was around 51%. It jumped up above 53% with the changes. It's just too strong on Morde.
> [{quoted}](name=OneMustFall,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EdY7rPM1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-17T04:36:33.300+0000) > > Morde doesn't actually need nerfs. Conqueror needs nerfs. Before the Conqueror changes, Morde's win rate was around 51%. It jumped up above 53% with the changes. It's just too strong on Morde. You can't blame just Conqueror when it's already been nerfed once and has had next to no impact on his winrate. His passive procs way to easily and lets him dumpster every melee champion in trades (except {{champion:114}} &{{champion:84}} maybe, but those abominations might as well be ranged for all intents and purposes.) His Q is probably too strong against anyone who doesnt have a dash; the counterplay should be to hide in the minion wave but it still smacks you there for a ton. The state of MR is a joke right now, so building it to counter Morde's damage is as laughable as it is with every other AP champ. Which of course brings us to the problem with his E, which is probably still gives him probably way too much magic pen & just further spits in your face when you try to build to counter him. All these issues can be fixed with number tweaking (though I'd only fix one or two of these things since fixing them all would probably make him garbage,) but the one issue that can't is how strong his QSS tax is on the opposing team with his ulti. The item is just so worthless in stats you're team is at a pretty significant disadvanatage for having to build it, & before they can get it ult is just always going to stack the odds of winning a teamfight super high. Either youre ahead & ult the carry to kill them, or you're behind, build tank & ult their carry or core engage to take them out of the fight so your team can win 4v4.
: Mord nerf
His passive probably just needs to go off after landing 4 spells/attacks instead of 3 since its so damn easy to proc and win every trade with. Maybe he could still get the movement speed at 3 hits to make the 4th proc easier to land, or they could make the stacks decay a bit slower so he has a better chance to proc it. The other thing to look at would be the magic penetration he gets from his E since MR items are just garbage now in general due to the strength of AP. Either reduce it, change it to a flat amount, or maybe make it a black cleaver like effect to make drawn out fights that much more favorable for him instead of one shotting everyone in existence with his q.
: SO got all my rant posts deleted
Mods have started to get a bit weird with removing posts honestly. I made a comment the other day about how preseasons have been terrible since the assassin rework because they always wind up reverting most of the changes they make, except for the map changes (plants, scuttle, herald, etc.) which add a lot of depth to the game & are great. **That's** what they count as a rant now. Listing negatives & positives that come out of preseasons. It's no surprise actual rants get removed from the rant section since a rant is now just basic criticism of the game according to mods. I don't blame them for setting this rule though really, I imagine the mods have just been absolutely drowning in negative game criticism as every season feels like Riot just gets more and more unresponsive to what the playerbase wants.
: > [{quoted}](name=Rockman,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uagooe8G,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-08T16:54:50.144+0000) > > http://puu.sh/ENcAH/63e987b279.jpg (Profanity removed by moderation - CaliCoastReplay) Since when do you get to decide what your teammates can and cant play
> [{quoted}](name=KrypticBeing,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uagooe8G,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-08T22:43:56.081+0000) > > _**--Removed--**_ Since when do you get to decide what your teammates can and cant play Since sites like op.gg became a thing & I can see their 15% wr on the champ.
: I disagree. I believe Riot promotes team work. Teams that work together out on the rift, win more often. Proven. Teams that flame less, win more. Proven. Rewards are in place for those that follow the "summoners code" (incentive to play fair, nicely and engage in teamwork). Toxic behaviour and attitudes are punished to prevent bad behaviour. I even had my first account banned (reformed player here as living proof the system works). Riot gives you free champs/skins just for being a good team mate and following the summoners code! As for game content or updates. We are getting new champs all the time. Changes to the gameplay and the rift are coming down every season. I love the new Dragon changes that affect the physical map itself. You DO NOT need to spend a single $1 on this game! I have a few accounts where I have spent $0 and have all champs and MANY limited edition/rare skins. Be positive and a good team mate. You will be rewarded in many ways. Can we lock this thread?
> [{quoted}](name=TotalSilencey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=maPoVkp2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-03T23:43:47.815+0000) > > I disagree. > I believe Riot promotes team work. An opinion stated to counter facts isn't really an argument. > Teams that work together out on the rift, win more often. Proven. No shit. It's a team game. > Teams that flame less, win more. Proven. Makes sense since it's typically the team that's already losing who does the flaming, not the winning one. > Rewards are in place for those that follow the "summoners code" (incentive to play fair, nicely and engage in teamwork). Ah yes. ONE key fragment every ten or twelve games (which you'd get anyway) AND one or two skins if you grind out a thousand honors or so (which you'd probably get anyway from chests.) > Toxic behaviour and attitudes are punished to prevent bad behaviour. I even had my first account banned (reformed player here as living proof the system works). You personally might have been banned in 2015, but how about since the tribunal got gutted? > Riot gives you free champs/skins just for being a good team mate and following the summoners code! Grind out a thousand games where you have to get 3 times as many honors for a chance to get ONE skin. Yep, that's some serious incentive. > As for game content or updates. We are getting new champs all the time. Changes to the gameplay and the rift are coming down every season. I love the new Dragon changes that affect the physical map itself. You're dancing around the point that with every small good change comes 4 or 5 major game breaking changes that focuses power into the individual. Case in point this season: {{item:3181}} & Dragons. > You DO NOT need to spend a single $1 on this game! I have a few accounts where I have spent $0 and have all champs and MANY limited edition/rare skins. It's been proven a few times over that Riot balances their champions around skin releases. You don't have to spend money, it's true, but players are **heavily encouraged** to buy the new skins when their champs stay top picks for so long (see {{champion:84}} & {{champion:245}}.) > Be positive and a good team mate. You will be rewarded in many ways. Are you a bot? > Can we lock this thread? Are you a bot? Also, a lot of what you said is just random conjecture not related to anything OP said.
Comentários de Rioters
: Oh, I remember this argument but replace Senna with Zoe. And how is Zoe doing these days...? Well, definitely not ban worthy, I’d say. Hyperbole much?
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MZEuJgNd,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-02T13:26:47.122+0000) > > Oh, I remember this argument but replace Senna with Zoe. > > And how is Zoe doing these days...? Well, definitely not ban worthy, I’d say. I think you're missing the point of your own argument. Zoe had to be totally gutted/dumpstered as a result of her stupidly overtuned kit. The same is going to happen to Senna undoubtedly, as you imply, so if anything you're proving OP right that this champion has an overstuffed kit that needs some heavy alterations.
: Why Lol Is Toxic
Anyone who wants proof can go watch Dunkey's vids. He got banned a day after flaming an inting Malphite while that Malphite was able to play a whole THREE MORE SEASONS before he finally got banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JBJjMh7a,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-21T07:03:13.261+0000) > > There's a solid list of major changes that Riot made to change the game (Not in chronological order) > > - Elemental Drakes > - Plants > - Jungle Camps > - Turrets > - Runes/Masteries > > It's getting exhausting. > > I understand "keeping the game fresh", but true sports don't see that many changes once the game is established. League is 10 years old. It's getting to the point where major changes shouldn't be expected. This round of Dragon changes are pretty extensive and even change the entire map. > > At a certain point, Riot, you're just making the game more impossible to balance for that sole purpose. It's less about being fresh and more about change for the sake of change. Change is necessary, but not all change is good. This is not true in video games, see how sc1, sc2, war3, Dota 1 died ? they did not constantly reinvent themselves and while I agree they are still played, they have only retained a tiny fraction of their player base. League of legend was able to retain most of its player base for so long BECAUSE they are constantly changing the game, so maybe you do not like this, but it seems that it's what the silent majority like.
> [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JBJjMh7a,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-11-21T13:17:18.352+0000) > > This is not true in video games, see how sc1, sc2, war3, Dota 1 died ? they did not constantly reinvent themselves and while I agree they are still played, they have only retained a tiny fraction of their player base. These are some pretty terrible references so you really have no point whatsoever. RTSs (Sc, wc, etc.) didn't die out because the games never changed, they went into decline because they're mind-bogglingly difficult to learn and master, & their game lengths are obviously extremely long as well, making them a major turnoff for casual players to get into. And Dota1 never really died out so much as turned into Dota2, which has maintained a pretty healthy playerbase for years with no real crazy changes.
: LoL Burnout versus URF - what about other reasons? [Poll]
I think if there's burnout amongst the playerbase for regular league URF would be at the bottom of the list for reasons why. The client is inarguably a dumpster fire right now, alot of my friends just straight up stopped playing ranked because almost every game has either mid game crashes, frame drops, or are just remakes, so naturally it feels like a waste of time to queue up for a normal game. Top lane is still a joke at this point as well. The gap between ranged champions and melee champions in lane just gets further and further, so mages and adcs are still chasing pretty much every bruiser and tank out of the lane. First picking top lane makes you want to blow your fucking brains out; your only options to deal with counterpicks are to pray your jungler will gank you, pray their jungler won't push you even further behind, or bend over, accept the lane loss, and pray your team can 4v5 since that's what the game becomes after the gold dif. I personally quit top lane to play jungle, but I'd understand it if the lane was so bad people just swapped over to URF or quit the game entirely. Damage is still ridiculously high. It's pretty unsurprising that the only 3 or 4 adcs in the game right now (optimally speaking) have either a ridiculous amount of self peel/escapes since they die if someone so much as **SNEEZES** on them. And instead of reducing damage to create room for legitimate counterplay, Riot put out {{item:2423}} and buffed {{item:3157}} which lowers the collective intelligence of the entire playerbase for reasons which have been explained a billion times over. The game has arguably evolved into a hemorrhaging version of URF in many ways, so why not just quit and play the actual URF? Lastly, I think it might just be fatigue from the usual champions causing problems and Riot's characteristic obtuseness towards those champions.{{champion:64}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:114}} they all hover at the top of the pick lists or the ban lists ever since each champ was made/reworked, and it's obvious riot intends to never make any serious changes to them since those champs sell skins/are entertaining to watch in proplay. They can use URF as a scape goat like they do every time they put it out, but I think it's pretty clear Riots done alot to create an incredibly toxic/unfun atmosphere in the last few years, so its really not surprising people like to escape it when the opportunity presents itself.
Pika Fox (NA)
: The difference is her new kit is far more balanced. Old akali got less tweaks because they just gutted her intentionally. New akali doesnt have a kit that requires intentional gutting.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N1u8e6qU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-10T18:44:04.559+0000) > > The difference is her new kit is far more balanced. Old akali got less tweaks because they just gutted her intentionally. New akali doesnt have a kit that requires intentional gutting. Right. And she's also not an assassin because she doesn't build ad, right?
Brotha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0PEmNrO6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-11-11T05:59:27.953+0000) > > I think you hung on to the last line of his criticism a little hard there. If anything I'd had been hung up on the "feeling" part which was at the middle of OP post. The end of his post was just his overall take of the song, and I respect him having an opinion about it. I just don't agree with it. I think the song blends together nicely and I honestly don't understand the argument of "ITS LIKE 8 DIFFERENT SONGS OMG". I stand by my original assertion: People who prefer K-pop to Hip Hop are naturally going to prefer K/DA, as well as people who prefer the champions of K/DA.
> [{quoted}](name=Brotha,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0PEmNrO6,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T07:10:07.179+0000) > > People who prefer K-pop to Hip Hop are naturally going to prefer K/DA, as well as people who prefer the champions of K/DA. I actually detest both which is why I feel I can moderate between the two of you and say who has the more objective argument; it feels like Riot had no real vision of what they wanted TD to be so they threw together a mismatch of genres hoping one of them would hit its mark. It shows pretty heavily that the idea for the skin line came before the song, when vice versa was true for Kda.
Brotha (NA)
: Everyone has their own opinions. I heard K/DA's song BEFORE seeing the video and even though I adore K-pop I found it to be lackluster compared to literally anything Black Pink does. Didn't exactly hype me up, it was mostly the same shit from True Damage "We rule, you drool". The biggest difference to me comes from the art direction where its sex appeal versus pretty neon colors. In a world of thottery I enjoyed the True Damage visuals a bit more than the K/DA ones. Only a bit though, because both K/DA and True Damage have some pretty sexy art (art team just killin it). Song wise I think you'll lean toward whatever genre you prefer. That and more than a few people are unwilling to admit their bias for their preferred champions in the band (in this case I too am guilty). I never expected a Hip Hop band to overtake a K-Pop band in a League of Legends game since the community is mostly weebs anyway but I do think the song is a solid 7-8/10.
> [{quoted}](name=Brotha,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0PEmNrO6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-11T03:46:51.736+0000) > I think you hung on to the last line of his criticism a little hard there. Lyrics and feelings about a song are obviously subjective, but he's not wrong to say the song can be considered to be poor quality objectively speaking since it tries way too hard to be 6 or 7 different genres of music, leaving it with little to no direction. You can argue K/da might not be as good as 'kpop artist x,' but at least with Pop/stars the song had very definitive direction and structure. You listen to Pop/stars & it feels like one song, whereas Giants feels like what a whole album of songs compressed into 3 minutes.
Riot Pls (NA)
: Future Stories
Pick up on the arcs from the first Bilgewater event. {{champion:4}} & {{champion:104}} were set up to take off to Piltover together & then the entire thread got dropped more or less. It'd be especially nice to have a story on them running around the city now that it's been more fleshed out & has alot more characters to work with. Maybe they'd go back to doing heists and get pinned against {{champion:51}} & {{champion:254}} or {{champion:164}}, or get dragged into Zaun where we could see {{champion:6}}s revolt fleshed out more, or see them tangle with {{champion:19}} or {{champion:202}} & have to deal with being hinted by either after narrowly escaping once. There's alot of options for fun character collions in Piltover/Zaun, and I think TF & Graves are the perfect protagonists to center that around since they'd naturally do a bit of running around to set up a living there. Also pick up {{champion:41}} as the centerpiece for a storyline in Bilgewater 3. {{champion:21}} is barely holding on to her power over Bilgewater, so maybe a new pirate champ even nastier than GP could show up looking to take control of Bilgewater, forcing {{champion:41}} out of hiding to help {{champion:21}} fight off their greater foe, & afterwards learning to accept one another's existence.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T15:33:46.437+0000) > > Actually it's extremely applicable. We're talking about a champion that'll give camo/untargetability/disguising for **every champion in the game,** so naturally you need to have a coherent understanding of every champion in the game to propose an argument for its defense, which you have demonstrated in the past that you do not with your flawed classification of assassins. But it goes further than just the understanding of classes; in order to justify the existence of champion wide stealth you need to be able to say 'there isn't a single champion in the game that won't abuse this ability unfairly despite never having access to it before.' People are already naming a examples to prove that point wrong, and I have no doubt there are far more than anyone's even able to think of yet, so not only is your argument flawed, it's arrogant because you believe you understand every champion in the game well enough to thing there isn't any way for a champion to break this ability. Again, list an example or stop. Until you do something other than use logical fallacy as argument, you have no point, especially because she doesnt give untargetability, its "unclickability".
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000007,timestamp=2019-10-30T18:23:16.819+0000) > > There is no disadvantage to a frontline facechecking something where you know someone is And again you prove why your lack of experience in more comptetitive/higher levels of play makes your understanding of the game flawed. There's no point in trying to explain this to you or reason with you; you believe for some bizarre reason, that you understand this game in its entirety despite only playing it for a handful of years and despite never playing competitively except in one of the lowest rankings and extremely sparingly. Never mind that everyone on this board (as far as I can tell) is in disargeement with you on your conclusion, you somehow know more than all of them despite experiencing this game at the most casual level possible. No point in trying to convince you of anything when you live in your very strange world of Aram only games where Fizz is actually a mage and Akali was fair in release.
: but if Hec was out of the cloud, he would be visible still.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hLi3k5En,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T18:57:40.757+0000) > > but if Hec was out of the cloud, he would be visible still. He'd be visible as a ghoul, so you'd have no idea if he was hec or one of the other enemy champs, and before you can get close enough to see him you're well within range of his ulti.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T15:33:46.437+0000) > > Actually it's extremely applicable. We're talking about a champion that'll give camo/untargetability/disguising for **every champion in the game,** so naturally you need to have a coherent understanding of every champion in the game to propose an argument for its defense, which you have demonstrated in the past that you do not with your flawed classification of assassins. But it goes further than just the understanding of classes; in order to justify the existence of champion wide stealth you need to be able to say 'there isn't a single champion in the game that won't abuse this ability unfairly despite never having access to it before.' People are already naming a examples to prove that point wrong, and I have no doubt there are far more than anyone's even able to think of yet, so not only is your argument flawed, it's arrogant because you believe you understand every champion in the game well enough to thing there isn't any way for a champion to break this ability. Again, list an example or stop. Until you do something other than use logical fallacy as argument, you have no point, especially because she doesnt give untargetability, its "unclickability".
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-10-30T17:28:23.459+0000) > It is broken by BEING CLOSE. LITERALLY JUST ENGAGE. Jesus fuck, literally every champion you listed that is "op" using it literally hard counters the ability itself. Heaven forbid a tank actually do their job and engage into a free team wombo if theyre all just going to group up into it. I'm saying there's no way to counter it because either way will result in a heavy disadvantage; you either force a frontliner to facecheck or you give the enemy free disguises/camo. I'm assuming you don't understand the disadvantage of making frontliners facecheck because you're grunting like a silverback acting like its of no consequence to a fight, but it is, and if you need me to explain why, you prove my point again you have poor knowledge of this game. There's a reason wards and blue trinket exist, it's to prevent fights like that from happening with no negative repercussions, but Senna prevents that from happening. >If you dont know where the enemy jungler is I don't really know why you're babbling about map awareness here since I've been mainly talking about the game warping effects Senna's e will have on the mid/late game, not the laning phase.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T15:33:46.437+0000) > > Actually it's extremely applicable. We're talking about a champion that'll give camo/untargetability/disguising for **every champion in the game,** so naturally you need to have a coherent understanding of every champion in the game to propose an argument for its defense, which you have demonstrated in the past that you do not with your flawed classification of assassins. But it goes further than just the understanding of classes; in order to justify the existence of champion wide stealth you need to be able to say 'there isn't a single champion in the game that won't abuse this ability unfairly despite never having access to it before.' People are already naming a examples to prove that point wrong, and I have no doubt there are far more than anyone's even able to think of yet, so not only is your argument flawed, it's arrogant because you believe you understand every champion in the game well enough to thing there isn't any way for a champion to break this ability. Again, list an example or stop. Until you do something other than use logical fallacy as argument, you have no point, especially because she doesnt give untargetability, its "unclickability".
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-30T16:39:27.965+0000) > Thats not "abuse", thats intended design, and only punishes lack of map awareness. And I'm explaining to you why that design if flawed since there's no real counterplay to it. You can counter engages from the champions I listed by proper warding normally, but with Senna e there's no way to counter engages except by dropping a pink ward at the beginning of every fight and hope you leave it in a decent spot where they can't pick it off before the fight breaks out. >By the same token, literally everyone you listed could easily go into and negate the cloud entirely. How many fights turn out well for a team that gets dragged into one by facechecking a bush? Not many, even when you have the tank in front. That's essentially what every fight with Senna is except you can't use a blue ward to avoid the face check and if you don't check at all the players get a disguise. There is a theoretical counter, sure, but it's one that still results in your team at a pretty significant disadvantage. The ability is unhealthy to the game since it'll warp the entire game around a single ability that isn't even an ultimate.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T15:33:46.437+0000) > > Actually it's extremely applicable. We're talking about a champion that'll give camo/untargetability/disguising for **every champion in the game,** so naturally you need to have a coherent understanding of every champion in the game to propose an argument for its defense, which you have demonstrated in the past that you do not with your flawed classification of assassins. But it goes further than just the understanding of classes; in order to justify the existence of champion wide stealth you need to be able to say 'there isn't a single champion in the game that won't abuse this ability unfairly despite never having access to it before.' People are already naming a examples to prove that point wrong, and I have no doubt there are far more than anyone's even able to think of yet, so not only is your argument flawed, it's arrogant because you believe you understand every champion in the game well enough to thing there isn't any way for a champion to break this ability. Again, list an example or stop. Until you do something other than use logical fallacy as argument, you have no point, especially because she doesnt give untargetability, its "unclickability".
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T15:54:13.693+0000) > > she doesnt give untargetability, its "unclickability". Irrelevant nitpicking, again a pretty solid sign that you're just parroting what you hear & dancing around that it's still a very strong ability that limits counterplay pretty severely. As for examples of how the disguise can be abused; {{champion:120}} will e then ult in before you can figure out who he is, {{champion:238}} will w ult your carry before you can figure out who he is, {{champion:79}} will toss out his ult from the mist itself, {{champion:32}} will bandage then ult before you can id him, the list goes on and on. Which is the important part, even if you counter all of my examples, there's an endless amount of other ways to abuse the ability others will think of & the balance team has no way of anticipating, so it's far better to just not have the ability on account of how badly it'll warp the game.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T14:30:15.941+0000) > > Because you're the kid who tried to argue that in order for a champion to be an Assassin it has to deal attack damage, and that any Assassin who deals AP is a mage. Your understanding of the game is warped to its very core, so any argument you try to make is irrelevant since you flat out don't understand the game. Not applicable. Give a reason why my current statements are wrong. Ad hominem is not an argument. If you are incapable of this, im going to assume you have no point, and that for all your insults, this "silver player", as you put it, knows more about the game than you.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T14:48:46.861+0000) > > Not applicable. Give a reason why my current statements are wrong. Ad hominem is not an argument. If you are incapable of this, im going to assume you have no point, and that for all your insults, this "silver player", as you put it, knows more about the game than you. Actually it's extremely applicable. We're talking about a champion that'll give camo/untargetability/disguising for **every champion in the game,** so naturally you need to have a coherent understanding of every champion in the game to propose an argument for its defense, which you have demonstrated in the past that you do not with your flawed classification of assassins. But it goes further than just the understanding of classes; in order to justify the existence of champion wide stealth you need to be able to say 'there isn't a single champion in the game that won't abuse this ability unfairly despite never having access to it before.' People are already naming a examples to prove that point wrong, and I have no doubt there are far more than anyone's even able to think of yet, so not only is your argument flawed, it's arrogant because you believe you understand every champion in the game well enough to thing there isn't any way for a champion to break this ability.
Stylîte (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-29T19:28:50.773+0000) > > No, it doesnt worry me, because you have no idea what overloaded or powercreep is. > > The kit doesnt even remotely look overloaded, and we have no numbers to know if shes even going to be good. > > Her passive completely cripples her chances at being a core ADC, as it guts her interaction with AS from what we can currently tell. She has no innate multipliers for AD damage, which an ADC practically requires. No AS steroid or damage steroid of any kind. > > Q heals and deals damage, which means its going to be weak at either individually. It also relies on passive for range scaling, letting her scale through the game for range safety, but will likely have short range early. > > Yes, a support has hard CC. Most supports do. And, again, she is limited in the role of ADC through passive. > > R appears to have travel time, and we dont have numbers to go with it. It also only deals damage in the center of the ability. > > E gives team camo, which is nice, but she is otherwise immobile, and likely will only have mediocre damage. You also know where she is inside it at all times, as shes in the middle, and can likely just send in an amumu to press Q and R inside it to get a free teamwide CC off on the enemy if they all group inside it. Or hell, free malphite ult. I bet you white knighted about how balanced Akali was when her rework was released too.
> [{quoted}](name=Stylîte,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-10-30T14:29:44.431+0000) > > I bet you white knighted about how balanced Akali was when her rework was released too. Careful lad. He's spamming the report button on anyone who calls him out on account of his other previous garbage arguments.
Pika Fox (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=se9Fzn6m,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T14:19:52.255+0000) > > If you think im wrong, list why. Because you're the kid who tried to argue that in order for a champion to be an Assassin it has to deal attack damage, and that any Assassin who deals AP is a mage. Your understanding of the game is warped to its very core, so any argument you try to make is irrelevant since you flat out don't understand the game.
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CapnMorganFr3man

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