Comentários de Rioters
: if you go top like a lot of other skirmishers do, u will be a little less likely to face mages or assassins
> [{quoted}](name=FlameHalbrdOkido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEuGgBwQ,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T16:45:38.387+0000) > > if you go top like a lot of other skirmishers do, u will be a little less likely to face mages or assassins You got a point there... It also seems like he's something you use when you see high priority global ultimates.
: We Need A New Map to Play on
holy shit, were all support mains... I'm sensing a trend.
: As a Skirmisher Sylas is good at extended 1v1s, hes not BAD at teamfights he just has some disadvantages in them such as if he gets focused especially in this dmg boosted meta. He has more advantages in a 1v1 is all. His waveclear might be nerfed a bit but Q is still very spammabled, Q won't clear the wave, but 2 might, bc Sylas uses his W and E for fighting the enemy laner. Sylas wants to get into an extended fight and either force the enemy to back or move away from the waves. ALSO just bc his Q got nerfed on minions doesn't mean his passive has, u can use that to wave clear as well even while fighting when u cast ur other abilities U'd pick an AP Skirmisher like Sylas when u need someone with sustained melee damage that deals magic damage, u'd pick him for any reason u'd pick any other skirmisher except his dmg is AP not AD.
> [{quoted}](name=FlameHalbrdOkido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEuGgBwQ,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T07:01:52.493+0000) > > As a Skirmisher Sylas is good at extended 1v1s, > hes not BAD at teamfights he just has some disadvantages in them such as if he gets focused especially in this dmg boosted meta. He has more advantages in a 1v1 is all. His waveclear might be nerfed a bit but Q is still very spammabled, Q won't clear the wave, but 2 might, bc Sylas uses his W and E for fighting the enemy laner. Sylas wants to get into an extended fight and either force the enemy to back or move away from the waves. ALSO just bc his Q got nerfed on minions doesn't mean his passive has, u can use that to wave clear as well even while fighting when u cast ur other abilities > > U'd pick an AP Skirmisher like Sylas when u need someone with sustained melee damage that deals magic damage, u'd pick him for any reason u'd pick any other skirmisher except his dmg is AP not AD. Ah, so his 1v1 is pretty much outclassed just off his bad waveclear... In lane, he'll p much never get to 1v1 without taking aggro. Just about everything can out push Sylas. In the brief time I've played, it takes 2 Q's and auto to clear 3 early game. It's dangerous. Assassins can poke you out of the lane with their burst and mages can shove you in and make those scuttle fights. You've helped me make sense of it. It's the wave clear.
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEuGgBwQ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-11-11T01:05:10.998+0000) > > What if I like playing him and he feels awful to play? Am I not allowed to have an opinion or?? If you think he feels awful to play it sounds like you don't like playing him. Unless you're a masochist or something.
> [{quoted}](name=ThisName1sDumb,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEuGgBwQ,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T03:05:23.802+0000) > > If you think he feels awful to play it sounds like you don't like playing him. Unless you're a masochist or something. So if a champ you like gets nerfed to the ground, you wont like them anymore? Well OKAY then, sorry to have wasted your time... I'm just gonna get out of your way, real quick, so you can associate with people on your level. --have a great day.
: sorry thats something i have to work on im trying to explain what Sylas is and how he should be played and trying to clear up some misconceptions about sub-classes For one the term bruiser is kinda a vague term, theres no clearcut definition for it given by Riot so its a term that should be avoided to avoid confusion. Sylas is classified in the subclass or Skirmisher. Skirmishers are defined by their aim to shred through any nearby enemy that approaches: this is what Sylas is intended to do, especially in 1v1's. Skirmishers tend to do a little less well in teamfights unless purposely given an ability to mitigate damage from multiple sources as alot of their damage is single target focused, This is seen in Sylas' Passive dealing bonus AD to his attack target, and his W and E being single target focused. Sure his passive deals AoE dmg as does his Q, and this is to allow him to be moderately effective in teamfights, but if he's not careful he WILL get melted with all the damage that can be thrown around. But he does have a high level of sustained damage if u play correctly in a 1v1. Skirmishers also lack high-end burst damage: This is seen in every aspect of the way Sylas's Kit is set up, especially his passive. Basically his passive lets you know that you will want to look for extended trades, the longer you can be in combat the more u can proc, your passive. bc its after every ability cast, and E is actually 2 casts (which is nice that his passive can stack 2x). Bc u want to weave in AA's between every ability that means u will be less likely to burst people down in a short amount of time. Sylas excells in extended trades. His Q has a delay, his W only deals bonus damage if the target is low which is likely after an extended trade. His E has to be cast 2x before it can deal dmg. They also lack reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets: Sylas DOES have mobility however it IS gated because W's and E1's range is short, and E2 is telegraphed by E1 and it can be blocked. Skirmisher's aren't tanky however are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive: Sylas ISN'T meant to be tanky, he IS meant to be squishy, bc if he casts his abilities correctly he can be really defensive unlike a mage. He can shield himself from magic damage, he can heal himself for a decent amount if he's low on HP, and he has a stun that leads into a knock up
> [{quoted}](name=FlameHalbrdOkido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEuGgBwQ,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-11T02:27:48.520+0000) > > sorry thats something i have to work on > > im trying to explain what Sylas is and how he should be played and trying to clear up some misconceptions about sub-classes > > For one the term bruiser is kinda a vague term, theres no clearcut definition for it given by Riot so its a term that should be avoided to avoid confusion. Sylas is classified in the subclass or Skirmisher. > > Skirmishers are defined by their aim to shred through any nearby enemy that approaches: > this is what Sylas is intended to do, especially in 1v1's. Skirmishers tend to do a little less well in teamfights unless purposely given an ability to mitigate damage from multiple sources as alot of their damage is single target focused, This is seen in Sylas' Passive dealing bonus AD to his attack target, and his W and E being single target focused. Sure his passive deals AoE dmg as does his Q, and this is to allow him to be moderately effective in teamfights, but if he's not careful he WILL get melted with all the damage that can be thrown around. But he does have a high level of sustained damage if u play correctly in a 1v1. > > Skirmishers also lack high-end burst damage: > This is seen in every aspect of the way Sylas's Kit is set up, especially his passive. Basically his passive lets you know that you will want to look for extended trades, the longer you can be in combat the more u can proc, your passive. bc its after every ability cast, and E is actually 2 casts (which is nice that his passive can stack 2x). Bc u want to weave in AA's between every ability that means u will be less likely to burst people down in a short amount of time. Sylas excells in extended trades. His Q has a delay, his W only deals bonus damage if the target is low which is likely after an extended trade. His E has to be cast 2x before it can deal dmg. > > > They also lack reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets: > Sylas DOES have mobility however it IS gated because W's and E1's range is short, and E2 is telegraphed by E1 and it can be blocked. > > > Skirmisher's aren't tanky however are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive: > Sylas ISN'T meant to be tanky, he IS meant to be squishy, bc if he casts his abilities correctly he can be really defensive unlike a mage. He can shield himself from magic damage, he can heal himself for a decent amount if he's low on HP, and he has a stun that leads into a knock up I guess, I was a bit much myself... I apologize too. But... What exactly is Sylas good at? Because, I completely agree he's lacking in all the areas you mentioned. That was why I created the thread. Where does he shine? Why is a bruiser mage any good? You mentioned he's bad at teamfights, but his waveclear was nerfed to shit, so he's bad at both?? Why is this good? We know why you'd pick an assn or mage, so what is the reason you'd pick a bruiser mage?
: If you don't like playing him... don't play him?
> [{quoted}](name=ThisName1sDumb,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEuGgBwQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-10T22:44:09.345+0000) > > If you don't like playing him... don't play him? What if I like playing him and he feels awful to play? Am I not allowed to have an opinion or??
: yeah im not sure if they were completely coherent when they wrote this, bc those weren't the only errors, more likely than not they simply need to be corrected because they misunderstand somethings, its highly likey this is just the symptoms of a newer player not understanding how the game works and worst, what the game has come to be - from what it was. Here's the thing, Sylas may be classified as a burst mage, bc he deals magic damage, but really he's Riot's first AP Skirmisher. They might classify him as a burst mage ONLY bc there aren't any other AP skirmishers, same as people might classify Mordekaiser as a Battlemage bc he's the only full AP Juggernaut. So thats a misconception that people need to understand, he CAN burst but he will nvr be as bursty as burst mage bc thats not his intended play style. He will lack burst on the higher end of the scale bc he's meant to shred nearby targets with sustained damage through weaving abilities with AA, thats why his passive works the way it does, so he So if u playing him with the expectation that he's going to burst people down, ur going to get dissapointed. Worst LoL has become over saturated with damage so people want everyone to burst, the lvl or dmg expectation has been bloated, and when someone can't just blow an opponent up they think they are useless. So of course ur not gonna be able to rinse and repeat combos or ability recasts sequences if ur playing him like a battle mage and only casting all ur spells when they are off CD and then backing up when they are all on CD, bc Sylas is meant to spread his ability casts out and play over an extended period of time using AA and Abilities equally. U simply don't understand how to play Sylas effectively. Thats why has has the AD ratios on his passive bc ur supposed to get in an AA, and sometime u want to use bonus AD from lvls or items bc it works very well with ur passive if ur using it correctly. Thus with ALL the bloated damage in the game if ur playing him like that, ur not trading effectivley so yeah ur gonna die, bc u didn't press the advantages that Sylas inherently has. Just bc u can't clear jg camps doesn't mean u have to be a tank either. Riot very clearly wants Sylas to play offensively against a lane opponent thats all. Again his heal probably doesn't feel like much due to all the dmg in the game, but it does ALSO deal dmg and get stronger if he's lower. His Q deals less dmg to minions bc its so spammable. He's not immobile he has 1 unit target dash (400 units), and 1 target direction dash (400 units) that becomes a longer dash if u hit something with the 2nd cast (800 units). He's squishy bc he ALSO has situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, being a heal, a magic shield and a knock up, like how skirmishers are meant to be. He's a skirmisher, not an assassin, support, marksman, tank, or burst mage, play him like how you would Fiora, in Top or even Mid.
> [{quoted}](name=FlameHalbrdOkido,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEuGgBwQ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-10T22:58:58.387+0000) > > yeah im not sure if they were completely coherent when they wrote this, bc those weren't the only errors, more likely than not they simply need to be corrected because they misunderstand somethings, its highly likey this is just the symptoms of a newer player not understanding how the game works and worst, what the game has come to be - from what it was. > > Here's the thing, Sylas may be classified as a burst mage, bc he deals magic damage, but really he's Riot's first AP Skirmisher. They might classify him as a burst mage ONLY bc there aren't any other AP skirmishers, same as people might classify Mordekaiser as a Battlemage bc he's the only full AP Juggernaut. So thats a misconception that people need to understand, he CAN burst but he will nvr be as bursty as burst mage bc thats not his intended play style. > > He will lack burst on the higher end of the scale bc he's meant to shred nearby targets with sustained damage through weaving abilities with AA, thats why his passive works the way it does, so he > > So if u playing him with the expectation that he's going to burst people down, ur going to get dissapointed. Worst LoL has become over saturated with damage so people want everyone to burst, the lvl or dmg expectation has been bloated, and when someone can't just blow an opponent up they think they are useless. > > So of course ur not gonna be able to rinse and repeat combos or ability recasts sequences if ur playing him like a battle mage and only casting all ur spells when they are off CD and then backing up when they are all on CD, bc Sylas is meant to spread his ability casts out and play over an extended period of time using AA and Abilities equally. U simply don't understand how to play Sylas effectively. Thats why has has the AD ratios on his passive bc ur supposed to get in an AA, and sometime u want to use bonus AD from lvls or items bc it works very well with ur passive if ur using it correctly. > > Thus with ALL the bloated damage in the game if ur playing him like that, ur not trading effectivley so yeah ur gonna die, bc u didn't press the advantages that Sylas inherently has. > > Just bc u can't clear jg camps doesn't mean u have to be a tank either. Riot very clearly wants Sylas to play offensively against a lane opponent thats all. > > Again his heal probably doesn't feel like much due to all the dmg in the game, but it does ALSO deal dmg and get stronger if he's lower. His Q deals less dmg to minions bc its so spammable. > > He's not immobile he has 1 unit target dash (400 units), and 1 target direction dash (400 units) that becomes a longer dash if u hit something with the 2nd cast (800 units). He's squishy bc he ALSO has situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, being a heal, a magic shield and a knock up, like how skirmishers are meant to be. > > He's a skirmisher, not an assassin, support, marksman, tank, or burst mage, play him like how you would Fiora, in Top or even Mid. You're making yourself sound one way, but your post doesn't back any of it... It's just kind of dry "know-it-all" off comments. Maybe if you explain some of it, you can redeem yourself. I'm not claiming to be the truth or anything, I just came with questions and was pretty upset... Then here you come along acting pretentious, but failing to back up or explain anything. What was your intention supposed to be anyways? (I mean, you don't really have to address the questions, I'm just pointing out that you aren't.) You made a spiel about burst mages and spent the whole post defending that as if someone is arguing otherwise. My frustration was that he isn't good at anything in particular, so why not address that? If he's a bruiser, why is he just as frail as all the other mages? Err, why not address that? You're on this know-it-all crusade over points nobody is making and throwing jabs over whether someone is coherent as if this is your college classroom instead of a forum for a video game.
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=2sZqk9Bo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-10T04:38:56.166+0000) > > short answer: They don't... I don't either. The rewards suck and i'm playing support sylas because ill just get auto filled anyways. You should still care though, at least for the people trying to climb in the final days. I managed to hit gold a week ago finally but after that it's been nothing but players that have given up and don't give a shit anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Ibustbuttcheeks,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=2sZqk9Bo,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-10T14:50:35.923+0000) > > You should still care though, at least for the people trying to climb in the final days. I managed to hit gold a week ago finally but after that it's been nothing but players that have given up and don't give a shit anymore. Ah, I don't ever troll in ranked... I don't understand those ppl either. They should just play norms.
: Iron Matched against Plat 3
you were winning too many games.
: Do people just not care anymore cause it's the end of the season?
short answer: They don't... I don't either. The rewards suck and i'm playing support sylas because ill just get auto filled anyways.
Comentários de Rioters
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-11-07T19:36:42.371+0000) > > That would be silly, because the raw assassination damage will _still_ kill them AND they'll have no damage.. they will have a lot of damage lol, it's just a secondary rune, it's not like they are building tank items.
> [{quoted}](name=Garen is adopted,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-11-07T19:59:14.570+0000) > > they will have a lot of damage lol, it's just a secondary rune, it's not like they are building tank items. if they don't invest resistances, then the rune is useless... If they do, then they have no damage... They can't benefit from both if it has a weak flat and resistance scaling.
: Silly question, what if a squishy champ took it to combat lethality?
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-11-07T03:21:21.020+0000) > > Silly question, what if a squishy champ took it to combat lethality? That would be silly, because the raw assassination damage will _still_ kill them AND they'll have no damage..
: acutally its kind of bad idea, if you stall a lot you will barely take damage, not like one shot meta is any better but 0 damage meta wouldnt be good either, especially champions that alerdy one shot you will use that as well to become tankier when also doing 5k damage in a combo.
> [{quoted}](name=Garen is adopted,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-11-07T13:04:44.114+0000) > > acutally its kind of bad idea, if you stall a lot you will barely take damage, not like one shot meta is any better but 0 damage meta wouldnt be good either, especially champions that alerdy one shot you will use that as well to become tankier when also doing 5k damage in a combo. I mean, it's no worse than gathering storm... If you're stalling for 2 hours, then you kind of deserve to lose to those runes. Even riot feels this way giving elder drake an execute.
Ahris (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=0002000200000000000100010000000100010001,timestamp=2019-11-06T23:27:13.793+0000) > > charm into a full combo onto a squishy is def a kill... If you can't burst anyone it's because you fell behind, didn't land the full combo, or focused a tank. Ive seen ahri who couldnt kill lvl 9 pyke and lvl 9 rakan as lvl 12.
> [{quoted}](name=Ahris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=00020002000000000001000100000001000100010000,timestamp=2019-11-07T14:00:26.349+0000) > > Ive seen ahri who couldnt kill lvl 9 pyke and lvl 9 rakan as lvl 1 Assuming you were right, they should of been so close to dead that you'd still treat the fight as a 4v5... Your comment leaves out a lot of factors. her build, runes, gold, etc. (but I wont dwell much more on it.)
Durzaka (NA)
: Nailed it. Tanks already have a rune so good that nearly anyone who can proc it wants to take it anyways (aftershock). Tank items need to be looked a across the board.
> [{quoted}](name=Durzaka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2019-11-06T22:36:38.126+0000) > > Nailed it. > > Tanks already have a rune so good that nearly anyone who can proc it wants to take it anyways (aftershock). > > Tank items need to be looked a across the board. Aftershock is only really good on engage supports --not tanks... If it was so amazing for the class, then this discussion wouldn't even be a talking point right now.
: Imagine taking this + zhonyas + ninja tabi on some like vlad. Suddenly AD damage doesn't exist.
> [{quoted}](name=LightswornLance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-06T22:04:52.442+0000) > > Imagine taking this + zhonyas + ninja tabi on some like vlad. Suddenly AD damage doesn't exist. I don't see your point... Isn't that how Vlad builds already?
: Lol taliayah literally has a 1 shot combo. Her ew q 1 shots ppl
> [{quoted}](name=RyzeRework,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=00020002000000000001000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T20:39:04.909+0000) > > Lol taliayah literally has a 1 shot combo. Her ew q 1 shots ppl Combos are, by definition, not one shots...
Ahris (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=00020002000000000001000100000001,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:01:40.194+0000) > > **All assassins are designed to burst, including AP assassins, but this doesn't make them burst mages.** They are very different because they don't have as much control or safety in team fights compared to their burstier counterparts. At this time you must be thinking: _"Ekko has his ult? Ahri has 3 dashes? Etc... You cant be serious, no way this is legit!"_ but lets explore > > AP assassins: > > {{champion:142}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:245}} > > Now, lets look at actual burst mages: > > {{champion:1}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:99}} > > Burst mages are team fighting Gods compared to their assassin counterparts as they become more valuable as the game goes on... It's not that AP assassins are getting weaker nor is it that they're getting out scaled -- they are just losing agency. Don't get me wrong, Assassins do good damage and might even have great AoE, but they have to land a full combo cycle AND survive while burst mages simply need to click a button. > > If the assassin doesn't close the game quickly, then you have to get, at least, a kill and a half every fight or you will likely lose the game. Compare that to a 3 man tibbers ult... It doesn't even matter if the enemy dies, your fight is now 5v4 (or less) because they are going back to their base which means they have to give you that baron or turret... Something like that is a lot more valuable (late game) than any assassin. Even Ekko will find himself flipping over walls and trying to land 200IQ stuns when Brand, Syndra, or Zyra can do the same job with just the click of a button. ** The catch is assassins are scarier early and this meta is early focused.** ahri isnt ap assassin. She could not even burst an adc with heal. How is that an assassin
> [{quoted}](name=Ahris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=000200020000000000010001000000010001,timestamp=2019-11-06T21:45:17.240+0000) > > ahri isnt ap assassin. She could not even burst an adc with heal. How is that an assassin charm into a full combo onto a squishy is def a kill... If you can't burst anyone it's because you fell behind, didn't land the full combo, or focused a tank.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Honestly, I wouldn't mind losing aftershock all together. It skews the perception other classes mains have on tanks. They see a support tank leona/naut absorb ridiculous damage at level 2 and think "Wow imagine how tanky tanks in top must be". I think aftershock is a bad rune conceptually and papers over cracks that need to be exposed and addressed. Just my opinion. But obviously I would love something like the rune I described to exist even if it meant 4 resolve runes. P.S. I didn't wanna start crying about grasp too, but when GP is the most effective user of it, you get how weird it is.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T20:04:27.352+0000) > > Honestly, I wouldn't mind losing aftershock all together. It skews the perception other classes mains have on tanks. They see a support tank leona/naut absorb ridiculous damage at level 2 and think "Wow imagine how tanky tanks in top must be". > > I think aftershock is a bad rune conceptually and papers over cracks that need to be exposed and addressed. Just my opinion. > > But obviously I would love something like the rune I described to exist even if it meant 4 resolve runes. > > P.S. I didn't wanna start crying about grasp too, but when GP is the most effective user of it, you get how weird it is. Aftershock is for engage supports, losing It would gut them... I don't think we need to nerf them to buff other tanks... But I 100% agree with the way it skews people perceptions of tanks and i'm, again, 100% on what you noted about grasp too.
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=00020002000000000001000100000001,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:01:40.194+0000) > > **All assassins are designed to burst, including AP assassins, but this doesn't make them burst mages.** They are very different because they don't have as much control or safety in team fights compared to their burstier counterparts. At this time you must be thinking: _"Ekko has his ult? Ahri has 3 dashes? Etc... You cant be serious, no way this is legit!"_ but lets explore > > AP assassins: > > {{champion:142}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:245}} > > Now, lets look at actual burst mages: > > {{champion:1}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:99}} > > Burst mages are team fighting Gods compared to their assassin counterparts as they become more valuable as the game goes on... It's not that AP assassins are getting weaker nor is it that they're getting out scaled -- they are just losing agency. Don't get me wrong, Assassins do good damage and might even have great AoE, but they have to land a full combo cycle AND survive while burst mages simply need to click a button. > > If the assassin doesn't close the game quickly, then you have to get, at least, a kill and a half every fight or you will likely lose the game. Compare that to a 3 man tibbers ult... It doesn't even matter if the enemy dies, your fight is now 5v4 (or less) because they are going back to their base which means they have to give you that baron or turret... Something like that is a lot more valuable (late game) than any assassin. Even Ekko will find himself flipping over walls and trying to land 200IQ stuns when Brand, Syndra, or Zyra can do the same job with just the click of a button. ** The catch is assassins are scarier early and this meta is early focused.** Ahri is a burst mage tho , Zyra , Syndra , Viktor and Brand aren't burst mages , they are control mages ( Syndra is bursty much more than them yeah but for some reason she isn't classified as a Burst mage )
> [{quoted}](name=Ahri Baka,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=000200020000000000010001000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-06T20:04:11.804+0000) > > Ahri is a burst mage tho , Zyra , Syndra , Viktor and Brand aren't burst mages , they are control mages ( Syndra is bursty much more than them yeah but for some reason she isn't classified as a Burst mage ) Ahri and Zoe are mages that play like assassins, they can hit multiple people with their Q's, but they are actually designed to make picks. A good sum of mages can pass as control mages too. I could see Syndra or Zyra falling into it, but I don't think Brand is one of them. He has no AoE crowd control and people don't really pick Brand to control fights --they pick him to end them. A true control mage would be something like: {{champion:34}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:26}} Control mages don't actually deal their damage all at once, they **control** the fights with their abilities and this gives them the potential to deal more damage than anyone else.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Tanks need one tanky rune to be introduced. No, aftershock is not a tanky rune, it's a rune designed to make people tanky for really small amounts of time and of course deal some damage, tanks don't really synergize well with this (except support tanks) Tanks need a rune that rewards them for staying in the thick of the fight and harassing the enemy carries (NOT WITH ONESHOT DAMAGE POTENTIAL). I am thinking something like the conqueror rune, but for tanks. Something like this > For every 1/2/3/(whatever makes sense) seconds in combat(or landing spells/autos) with enemy champions you gain X amount of armor and MR, at max stacks gain Y% incoming AND OUTGOING damage reduction (could be pre mitigation on incoming or both) and heal for that amount. This makes tanks tankier, healthier gives them incentive to stick in the midst of things, also makes them want to deal their damage before the rune procs (adds an extra level of difficulty and skill expression) and they won't be lane bullies(**cough** no tank meta) due to the reduced damage they deal.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-06T19:52:44.166+0000) > > Tanks need one tanky rune to be introduced. > No, aftershock is not a tanky rune, it's a rune designed to make people tanky for really small amounts of time and of course deal some damage, tanks don't really synergize well with this (except support tanks) > Tanks need a rune that rewards them for staying in the thick of the fight and harassing the enemy carries (NOT WITH ONESHOT DAMAGE POTENTIAL). > > I am thinking something like the conqueror rune, but for tanks. Something like this > > > This makes tanks tankier, healthier gives them incentive to stick in the midst of things, also makes them want to deal their damage before the rune procs (adds an extra level of difficulty and skill expression) and they won't be lane bullies(**cough** no tank meta) due to the reduced damage they deal. I like this idea, I was about to say they should buff grasp (which might be needed,) but maybe you're onto something here... Maybe what we need is a 4th rune in the resolve tree.
Velasan (NA)
: Counter argument... sort of... What if both gave you a little bit of stats every 2 minutes instead of only at ten minutes into the game? The old runes were as you leveled up. What if it was either 2 of a stat per min (so 2 per min, or 2 armor/magic resist per min) OR 2 of a stat per level and then it would max out when you hit level 18 so it wouldn't infinitely scale anymore. The problem with both conditioning and storm is that they take 10 minutes to come online. Where as before even if you had scaling stats you were gaining some amount of those stats as you leveled up eventually going even with the person taking flat early stats at level six or so. The other issue is that there is nothing to punish anyone for taking early stats because on the new runes you can have both. Nothing is stopping someone from taking both early game poke damage AND a scaling rune. So, the person who also has early game poke in their choices (like cheapshot or scorch) will still scale up as the game goes on from their other runes. That doesn't make storm or conditioning terrible, but it does put an arbitrary handicap on champions who want to use those runes by keeping them weak for the early game, and usually a lot of those champions already have weak early games (such as most tanks or scaling mages who require their ultimates).
> [{quoted}](name=Velasan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:57:45.378+0000) > > Counter argument... sort of... > > What if both gave you a little bit of stats every 2 minutes instead of only at ten minutes into the game? The old runes were as you leveled up. > > What if it was either 2 of a stat per min (so 2 per min, or 2 armor/magic resist per min) OR 2 of a stat per level and then it would max out when you hit level 18 so it wouldn't infinitely scale anymore. > > The problem with both conditioning and storm is that they take 10 minutes to come online. Where as before even if you had scaling stats you were gaining some amount of those stats as you leveled up eventually going even with the person taking flat early stats at level six or so. The other issue is that there is nothing to punish anyone for taking early stats because on the new runes you can have both. Nothing is stopping someone from taking both early game poke damage AND a scaling rune. So, the person who also has early game poke in their choices (like cheapshot or scorch) will still scale up as the game goes on from their other runes. > > That doesn't make storm or conditioning terrible, but it does put an arbitrary handicap on champions who want to use those runes by keeping them weak for the early game, and usually a lot of those champions already have weak early games (such as most tanks or scaling mages who require their ultimates). I think you're right. The early runes (now) are far better than before, but the scaling runes are riskier... But, if you managed to stay even or get ahead, the scaling ones are better than before as well. However, I think it's necessary that the runes stay this way because if we did them the way you suggested, then league would become a game about who could scale the fastest and we've already been there before. There would no longer be a reason to get scorch because it would not have a big enough window to be useful... That aside, resists are pretty busted as the game goes on --that's why riot makes it so expensive. ARAM pretty much tells us everything there is to know about the late late game because the map is designed to force team fights... And if you've had enough team fights, you already know that the most busted things in a pure 5v5 are burst mages and tanks. (Marksmen too if they get adequate assistance.) It's a real sticky situation.
: I don't know, though. I think tank itemization needs to be looked into before buffing tank runes. You just run the risk of everyone running the good tank runes, and _everyone_ getting tankier across the board. I think we just need real, strong, affordable tank items that really give tanks some lasting power in a teamfight again.
> [{quoted}](name=Rax Reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:01:43.126+0000) > > I don't know, though. I think tank itemization needs to be looked into before buffing tank runes. You just run the risk of everyone running the good tank runes, and _everyone_ getting tankier across the board. I think we just need real, strong, affordable tank items that really give tanks some lasting power in a team fight again. Its true anyone can get the rune, but base the resists for conditioning isn't useful on its own... Conditioning has a %scaling off your resists which means the squishies wont really get any tankier unless they invest resistances. Tank itemization could work, but it's riskier and holds the same problem of everyone building tank items as well. But what if they don't? If my rune idea is super good, only for tanks, there is still that 10 minute window and there are still other runes that people can use to be relevant... But if your items become too good for tanks and nobody can't exploit it, then we risk ending up in a censar meta because DPS is the only true counter to the tank class and tanks provide cc for their teams, thus making adc the most valuable class by default.
: A burst MAGE All assassins burst. AP assassins are burst mages.
> [{quoted}](name=ArtumisPrime,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=0002000200000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-11-06T14:22:39.503+0000) > > A burst MAGE > > All assassins burst. > > AP assassins are burst mages. **All assassins are designed to burst, including AP assassins, but this doesn't make them burst mages.** They are very different because they don't have as much control or safety in team fights compared to their burstier counterparts. At this time you must be thinking: _"Ekko has his ult? Ahri has 3 dashes? Etc... You cant be serious, no way this is legit!"_ but lets explore AP assassins: {{champion:142}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:245}} Now, lets look at actual burst mages: {{champion:1}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:99}} Burst mages are team fighting Gods compared to their assassin counterparts as they become more valuable as the game goes on... It's not that AP assassins are getting weaker nor is it that they're getting out scaled -- they are just losing agency. Don't get me wrong, Assassins do good damage and might even have great AoE, but they have to land a full combo cycle AND survive while burst mages simply need to click a button. If the assassin doesn't close the game quickly, then you have to get, at least, a kill and a half every fight or you will likely lose the game. Compare that to a 3 man tibbers ult... It doesn't even matter if the enemy dies, your fight is now 5v4 (or less) because they are going back to their base which means they have to give you that baron or turret... Something like that is a lot more valuable (late game) than any assassin. Even Ekko will find himself flipping over walls and trying to land 200IQ stuns when Brand, Syndra, or Zyra can do the same job with just the click of a button. ** The catch is assassins are scarier early and this meta is early focused.**
: Mages don't need any new items for fuck sake. Mages have the most variety in the game by far, and the most op items BY FAR. The mage items available are so fucking cheap, and have more utility than any other class's items in the entire game, with better stats for fuck sake. Like it is INSANE that people don't see this.
> [{quoted}](name=Dadnekton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oQefoXoH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-06T02:23:27.384+0000) > > Mages don't need any new items for fuck sake. Mages have the most variety in the game by far, and the most op items BY FAR. The mage items available are so fucking cheap, and have more utility than any other class's items in the entire game, with better stats for fuck sake. Like it is INSANE that people don't see this. You've been downvoted to oblivion, but you're right... Mages are very strong.
Comentários de Rioters
: Plot Armor In League of Legend Lore (All Champs that Playable)
There are a lot of clever ways to kill off a champion and still maintain the game. If anything, the champions skills could be passed on to their child and then you might end up playing the champions child, successor, friend, etc... Or they could come back as an a member of the undead and you could turn their base splash into a "traditional skin." Or the champ could become re-worked to compliment their age. So, I don't think anyone is immune to death in this game. If anything, I really just want a Bard skin.
: Who Here Genuinely Likes Blitzcrank as a Character?
To be fair, I said as a character (not as a champion.) A lot of the responses from people who do like him say hardly anything about him as a character in the plot ---they just like the champ.
Dystna (NA)
: Ornn Skin Idea
I'm going to be pissed if this doesnt happen... its too perfect to pass up.
Comentários de Rioters
Comentários de Rioters
: No he is not a tank because he was designed to go all in and kill a target. The longer a fight is going on the more likely you are to lose it because Thresh does not bring anything to the table for that kind of fight unlike a proper tank like Mundo would.
> [{quoted}](name=Kartoffelsuppe,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2019-11-02T20:24:34.520+0000) > > No he is not a tank because he was designed to go all in and kill a target. The longer a fight is going on the more likely you are to lose it because Thresh does not bring anything to the table for that kind of fight unlike a proper tank like Mundo would. Yup. This is a really good point.
: > [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-02T00:13:15.578+0000) > > You pick him for the same reasons you pick other catchers. > How is he not a jack of all trades? He has pretty good damage for trades in lane, he has CC, he has some shielding that doubles as a free escape when your adc is flashless. > You can pick him both in aggressive and defensive lanes. > > What is a scenario that thresh can't function? Or what is a scenario where thresh is THE BEST support for that scenario. I am talking macro, not micro situations where his lantern saves the day. Wow and clearly didn't read anything I posted great to know. I said in my first post catcher is a shit subclass that doesn't mean anything. Cass and sol play very different but still share common ideas constantly damage they don't die as fast as burst mages you can easily tell they're battle mages. Now bard and thresh bard dies pretty fast, is great at roaming and has high damage in the early game and thresh shares none of that with him. Zyra is also in that class and guess that still don't make sense. His damage isn't high idk why you think it is, it's pretty average for a support. Like go and play him since you don't pick him in the same spot you pick a pyke,rakan or bard. You pick him for similar reasons to a ali or braum. Also every support can function with basically every adc there really isn't a best for any adc or support with some exceptions.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-02T11:15:07.670+0000) > > Wow and clearly didn't read anything I posted great to know. I said in my first post catcher is a shit subclass that doesn't mean anything. Cass and sol play very different but still share common ideas constantly damage they don't die as fast as burst mages you can easily tell they're battle mages. Now bard and thresh bard dies pretty fast, is great at roaming and has high damage in the early game and thresh shares none of that with him. Zyra is also in that class and guess that still don't make sense. > > His damage isn't high idk why you think it is, it's pretty average for a support. Like go and play him since you don't pick him in the same spot you pick a pyke,rakan or bard. You pick him for similar reasons to a ali or braum. > > Also every support can function with basically every adc there really isn't a best for any adc or support with some exceptions. As a support main, I agree with most of what you said except the last 2. If you invest damage, Thresh HURTS. (but why would you? lol) And some matchups are actually better than others. I main bard and I absolutely love a good caitlyn, draven, or Lucian. I cannot stand weak laners, especially if you're bad with vayne, twitch, and ez. (the bane of my existence.)
Smyrage (EUNE)
: He falls into the support category of Catchers, which are usually not so tanky support, with a lot of playmake potential. Their role is generally to lock down players who are out of position so your team can capitalize on them. They usually offer peel for the ADC, because their presence poses immense threat. However Catchers aren't exclusively support champions, because e.g {{champion:202}} is also considered as a Catcher, and while he really can play like as an off-ADC support, it is kinda rare (maybe in season 10, with AD support items).
> [{quoted}](name=Smyrage,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-11-02T10:01:23.587+0000) > > He falls into the support category of Catchers, which are usually not so tanky support, with a lot of playmake potential. Their role is generally to lock down players who are out of position so your team can capitalize on them. They usually offer peel for the ADC, because their presence poses immense threat. However Catchers aren't exclusively support champions, because e.g {{champion:202}} is also considered as a Catcher, and while he really can play like as an off-ADC support, it is kinda rare (maybe in season 10, with AD support items). Thanks for sharing! This isn't related, but I can def see marksmen snagging the support item s10 and I'll prolly think of your post when that happens. lol
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=000400000000000000010001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-02T03:04:02.788+0000) > > The community seems pretty torn on the issue. I feel it's better if you hear it from the community yourself. > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ai8TFEU3-is-thresh-a-tank?comment=000f Okay, well, Thresh aside, you've made blanket statements that tanks are not viable. So I think it's fair to ask, what are you defining as a tank?
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=0004000000000000000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-02T03:36:43.429+0000) > > Okay, well, Thresh aside, you've made blanket statements that tanks are not viable. So I think it's fair to ask, what are you defining as a tank? No. I'm merely pointing out that nobody plays them because they're boring and feel terrible to play... Sure, they can work, but they're designed to scale and games are over so much faster now. To me, thresh is a utility champ that builds defense... But he doesn't actually have to (or need to.) He has low base stats and low health granted through supp items with no scaling off resistances or health... Like, If you build Soraka or Bard as tanks, even they will be beefier, but this doesn't make them tanks. (Imo, thresh has more in common with Bard than Leona.) The community is pretty torn over it, but that's my take.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=0004000000000000000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T21:17:23.231+0000) > > First off, blitz and thresh are, technically, not even tanks and any guide will tell you that upfront... they have low base stats and piss awful scalings to justify their kits and defensive passives. And J4 isn't a tank either. In his case, you don't even build him tanky. All the tanks that are good, right now, have been buffed repeatedly because they are bad in this meta. The fact they have to be overloaded and spam buffed to compete says enough. Whats even more sad is that, even at the top of the list, people still refuse to play them. > > The pro argument feels kind of flat for me... By that logic, Kalista is a pretty decent adc because she sees play in challenger elo... What the heck do you define as a tank exactly?
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=00040000000000000001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-02T00:53:55.841+0000) > > What the heck do you define as a tank exactly? The community seems pretty torn on the issue. I feel it's better if you hear it from the community yourself. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Ai8TFEU3-is-thresh-a-tank?comment=000f
: I feel like tanks...real tanks usually have a good hard engage and a way to hard CC. They can put themselves in-between their adc and champs trying to get to their adc/carries. {{champion:14}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} these are true tanks imo. They usually start the fights and help keep the adcs peeled so adcs/ carries can do their damage in the safest way possible. Thresh just doesn't fit this. He doesn't usually start the fight, although he can pull himself into a fight it isnt ideal. He can take damage, but not the same amount of a true tank. He can CC, but not like a true tank CC. He is a jack of all trades. Great at a lot of things, but master of none.
> [{quoted}](name=Thiz Game Blows,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-11-02T02:14:43.306+0000) > > I feel like tanks...real tanks usually have a good hard engage and a way to hard CC. They can put themselves in-between their adc and champs trying to get to their adc/carries. {{champion:14}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} these are true tanks imo. They usually start the fights and help keep the adcs peeled so adcs/ carries can do their damage in the safest way possible. Thresh just doesn't fit this. He doesn't usually start the fight, although he can pull himself into a fight it isnt ideal. He can take damage, but not the same amount of a true tank. He can CC, but not like a true tank CC. He is a jack of all trades. Great at a lot of things, but master of none. I feel your post is pretty damn powerful because thresh is usually dead if he flings into a teamfight after hook. Pointing that out implies that Thresh was not intended to be a tank. (Remember his passive also grants AP too.) That aside, the community chose to play him that way and found success. Thus, the community appears to be torn.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Thresh is most definitely not a tank. He is a jack of all trades master of none, why can't we leave it at that? Why do we HAVE to put him in a category? Can't he simply be thresh?
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-01T23:26:46.098+0000) > > Thresh is most definitely not a tank. > He is a jack of all trades master of none, why can't we leave it at that? Why do we HAVE to put him in a category? Can't he simply be thresh? My threads purpose is not really trying to define what thresh is, it's about trying to figure out what he is not... Honestly, this is a hot topic that gets overlooked, so I'm initiating an open discussion knowing that there is no resolution. If anything, I wanna know what the ppl who main thresh think. Just for my own notes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=v2QvwTk5,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-11-01T21:49:33.029+0000) > > I'm a bard main. I've been waiting almost 4 years for a bard skin... What if Bard gets a prestige skin in 2020? Or even 2021? See my problem? > > Because they expire I'm being forced to buy fucking Neeko and this Thresh skin that will be out probably this Christmas. Firstly, no one can force you to do anything with your Prestige Points. Secondly, let's say Bard gets a Prestige Edition in 2020 or 2021. Just accumulate 100 Prestige Points during that year and you're all set.
> [{quoted}](name=Everyday Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=v2QvwTk5,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-11-01T21:53:47.940+0000) > > Firstly, no one can force you to do anything with your Prestige Points. > Secondly, let's say Bard gets a Prestige Edition in 2020 or 2021. Just accumulate 100 Prestige Points during that year and you're all set. Well, in January, all my points will expire so I have to use them or I'll lose em all...
Kai Guy (NA)
: I am a bit confused by your response and think eather you mixed me up with some one else or have read a bit to deeply between the lines. I did not list builds Or build costs so the 1/2 an adc build comment lacks contex. Cc, engage, and peel are inherent parts of the kit so claims that a game is ended feel pretty inaccurate when most kits are online by level 6. I am simply point out what tanks bring to a team comp and that throwing away a front line is a mistake for most comps. That the design shifted to abilitys for damage mitigation over raw stat balls for most kits thou some exceptions exist. I did not act lile tanks are everywhere everwhere and did not mention maokai ? I hold an oppenion, that this attitude seen commonly on boards and in game that treats tanks as if they are universally bad picks, bad is contributing to a damage feast or famine meta because they serve as a responce to many damage oriented Champions. Again. Skill gaps make dramatic snowball on alot of dps champs but skill gaps make dramatic impact regardless of role. People just like kills. Fairly Normal for rpg and fps gameplay. .
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T23:20:18.502+0000) > > I am a bit confused by your response and think eather you mixed me up with some one else or have read a bit to deeply between the lines. I did not list builds Or build costs so the 1/2 an adc build comment lacks contex. > > Cc, engage, and peel are inherent parts of the kit so claims that a game is ended feel pretty inaccurate when most kits are online by level 6. > > I am simply point out what tanks bring to a team comp and that throwing away a front line is a mistake for most comps. That the design shifted to abilitys for damage mitigation over raw stat balls for most kits thou some exceptions exist. > > I did not act lile tanks are everywhere everwhere and did not mention maokai ? I hold an oppenion, that this attitude seen commonly on boards and in game that treats tanks as if they are universally bad picks, bad is contributing to a damage feast or famine meta because they serve as a responce to many damage oriented Champions. > > Again. Skill gaps make dramatic snowball on alot of dps champs but skill gaps make dramatic impact regardless of role. People just like kills. Fairly Normal for rpg and fps gameplay. > > > > > . I probably did mix you up with someone else, I honestly don't even remember what this was about nor do I care... I read like your first sentence here and stopped. Night.
: The reason Thresh isn't a tank is because he can chain, heal, and grab an ally. From what I've seen at least
> [{quoted}](name=KelmirOsue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-01T21:39:22.303+0000) > > The reason Thresh isn't a tank is because he can chain, heal, and grab an ally. From what I've seen at least what about ppl who say "well, you build him tanky?" or "he gets armor?"
: Riot can you remove the expiration date on Prestige Points?
I'm a bard main. I've been waiting almost 4 years for a bard skin... What if Bard gets a prestige skin in 2020? Or even 2021? See my problem? Because they expire I'm being forced to buy fucking Neeko and this Thresh skin that will be out probably this Christmas.
Bârd (NA)
: So you needed a DJ skin for True Damage...
Bard could literally have his face covered. He could wear a hoodie... He's totally humanoid enough to be a character in the pop world.
Comentários de Rioters
: Adcs shouldnt be bursting tanks just because they are meant to counter them. It being "slow" is not an argument.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-10-31T16:19:26.878+0000) > > Adcs shouldnt be bursting tanks just because they are meant to counter them. > It being "slow" is not an argument. DPS =/= Burst ... Assuming everything goes even, not even Kai'sa will be able to nuke you. Ofc, it will hardly ever go even because your opponent has 15+ minutes to shut you down. If your game isn't already over by then, they will be so ahead, I wouldn't be surprised if getting nuked really was the case.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=00040000000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T13:26:09.269+0000) > > I never said rammus wasn't effective, I just said its more worthwhile to carry games yourself than to just pray someone follows you... And that's pretty objective. Mages are strong atm and armor is niche --damage is universal. There _IS_ a reason we see these picks more than Rammus. > > In support, I'd def admit Zac/Leona/ Nautlis are pretty strong due to being wayy overtuned... But Alistar (and well add in braum) aren't seen as much if at all... Galio doesn't build tank anymore so. > > Didn't really need to jab at you to top the points either... Proof is all over for my end... Not that it matters, I main enchanter type supports. What proof? You're playing support, and the top 4 champions picked in your role are all tanks (Thresh, Nautilus, Leona, Blitzcrank). In the jungler role, Jarvan is the 5th most pick jungler, Zac is the 10th. And if we go back to the original discussion, which was viability, not popularity, Ornn and Alistar have been played by multiple teams during worlds, and actually so has Skarner. Shen has also seen play as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AU1UrUg0,comment-id=000400000000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T15:31:03.140+0000) > > What proof? You're playing support, and the top 4 champions picked in your role are all tanks (Thresh, Nautilus, Leona, Blitzcrank). In the jungler role, Jarvan is the 5th most pick jungler, Zac is the 10th. > > And if we go back to the original discussion, which was viability, not popularity, Ornn and Alistar have been played by multiple teams during worlds, and actually so has Skarner. Shen has also seen play as well. First off, blitz and thresh are, technically, not even tanks and any guide will tell you that upfront... they have low base stats and piss awful scalings to justify their kits and defensive passives. And J4 isn't a tank either. In his case, you don't even build him tanky. All the tanks that are good, right now, have been buffed repeatedly because they are bad in this meta. The fact they have to be overloaded and spam buffed to compete says enough. Whats even more sad is that, even at the top of the list, people still refuse to play them. The pro argument feels kind of flat for me... By that logic, Kalista is a pretty decent adc because she sees play in challenger elo...
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Caretaker Jack

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