: Support had never been about just protecting carries. If that was the case why are champions like Alistar, Leona and Blitz played as supports? They engage and lock down targets. They can be used to peel but that is not their forte. Support has always been about being a champion that can work on low income. What they do range from shielding and healing, engaging and peeling or being a secondary source of damage
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8pRrWpWE,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-11-12T00:50:54.557+0000) > > Support had never been about just protecting carries. If that was the case why are champions like Alistar, Leona and Blitz played as supports? They engage and lock down targets. They can be used to peel but that is not their forte. > > Support has always been about being a champion that can work on low income. What they do range from shielding and healing, engaging and peeling or being a secondary source of damage How is peeling not their forte. Leona has a ranged root, a follow up aoe ult stun on top of the other stun she already has. Blitz has a hook, a knock up, and a silence. I can't believe people would say a Janna or Nami have betetr peeling tools than champions with actual hard CC in droves.
CurS1VE (NA)
: {{champion:350}} ? What's your thoughts on that dog shit champ?
> [{quoted}](name=CurS1VE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8pRrWpWE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-11T22:01:22.926+0000) > > {{champion:350}} ? What's your thoughts on that dog shit champ? Don't you love an untargetable champ who heals their host for 30-40% of their health plus gives them a speed steroid and if that wasn't enough has a high damage poke slow and a lane wide aoe root nuke.
: The goal of a support is to support your team and you can do that in different ways. Leona has great lockdown power and engage but she isn't really good at protecting her team actually senna is better at it then her. Does that mean she shouldn't be a support? I like who you ignore so many facts to make your bs statements seem true. Like the last two supports were a enchanter and a marksman not a assassin. Subclasses also mean shit about the lane they play. Like you sound like you haven't played support for years. Damage supports haven't been good in a long time and where they are it's for like 4 patches before they get nerfed. The majority of the time support is just enchanters. Like no damage support has been good this year. Also if you think pyke is a damage support please go and actually play him since he isn't.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8pRrWpWE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-11T21:54:38.405+0000) > > The goal of a support is to support your team and you can do that in different ways. Leona has great lockdown power and engage but she isn't really good at protecting her team actually senna is better at it then her. Does that mean she shouldn't be a support? > > I like who you ignore so many facts to make your bs statements seem true. Like the last two supports were a enchanter and a marksman not a assassin. > > > Subclasses also mean shit about the lane they play. Like you sound like you haven't played support for years. Damage supports haven't been good in a long time and where they are it's for like 4 patches before they get nerfed. The majority of the time support is just enchanters. > > Like no damage support has been good this year. Also if you think pyke is a damage support please go and actually play him since he isn't. Leona isn't good at protecting her team? What? She's got peels up the ass, if she doesn't waste all of them trying to engage.
: Did the Akali rework fail?
They need to remove the slow off her Q and move it to her E dash. Thus she loses a spammable conal slow that allows her to self peel trivially or deny engages on her, but she keeps a slow to chase down people she lands her E on. Virtually all that makes her super oppressive in melee match ups is that she can pretty much poke you endlessly with Q and deny you any engagement with the slow so you get poked without the ability to retaliate since if you somehow use a leap to deal with the slow from the Q she either E's back, gunblade slows you, or shrouds as alternatives as she continues poking you down from complete safety.
: AFAIK, from what I've heard, things like Garen E, Senna Q, Yasuo Q, etc don't scale with indirect stats granted by items.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gipFRkn5,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2019-11-11T20:53:21.157+0000) > > AFAIK, from what I've heard, things like Garen E, Senna Q, Yasuo Q, etc don't scale with indirect stats granted by items. It's not the Q I'm worried about, since static shiv alone already reduces his Q to a measly 2 sec cd he can spam. It's the fact his crit boosted autoattacks get sped up as well.
5050BS (NA)
: It is so good on any champ that gets some damage from auto attacks. Its stupid. Conqueror + Ravenous Hunter + Sanguine Blade = 45% Life Steal (30% from all damage)
> [{quoted}](name=5050BS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gipFRkn5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-11T09:25:26.361+0000) > > It is so good on any champ that gets some damage from auto attacks. Its stupid. > > Conqueror + Ravenous Hunter + Sanguine Blade = 45% Life Steal (30% from all damage) lol Yasuo will be so busted with this item, and so will Jax and Tryndamere as well as Kled. Irelia too, just what we needed.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kOVzfmwH,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-11-09T21:37:00.795+0000) > > The problem is a half decent Akalis simply cannot be ganked once she builds gunblade. Even before then her shroud, her E leap back, and the spammable Q slow makes her a rather hard champ to pressure in lane as a jungler, so she gets freee reign to dictate her laning phase. > > The biggest fix to her would be to move her slow from her Q into her E charge, so she gets a slow for a gap closer but cannot spam a conal slow for easy escapes on top of her shroud, her E backflip, and gunblade slow. > > > Akali shares the same issue as Zed, their defensive tools don't share cost with their offensive tools and it makes them both lethal and very safe, whereas Katarina/Talon/Fizz have to use their mobility tools to engage and if they do so they don't have them available for a while to disengage. > > Akali/Zed kits are unhealthy designs. Giving high damage champs too many juking tools and safety will lead to problems. It's why Kai'sa and Xayah became a problem, high damage ADC's with immense amounts of safety tools for their champ class broke them. to be fair, zed needs to use his shadow to trade well, unless he is fed out of control and can straight up ult you and kill you
> [{quoted}](name=7deadleesinss,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kOVzfmwH,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-11-10T10:59:48.924+0000) > > to be fair, zed needs to use his shadow to trade well, unless he is fed out of control and can straight up ult you and kill you His shadow doesn't put him in any danger and he still has it available for displacement even if he uses it for trading. If Katarina uses her shunpo, it ain't resetting until the delay of picking up a knife or a kill, and when Talon uses his Q, there is no way out unless the enemy is stupidly hugging a wall or Talon is forced to waste his ult for escape instead of offense. Same concept for Fizz. His full trading combo makes his defensive tools unavailable to him. Zed uses his shadows and ults and has 2 spots to displace to without sacrificing any of his offense because he only needs to land the Q's and instant cast E before shadowing out.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=QfnUYrBn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-09T22:19:28.960+0000) > > His early game is not just "alright". He has one of the most oppressive lv2-3's in the entire game and when he gets 6 he can 1v2 both his enemy lane and jg. > > He's the mid lane version of Renekton, a strong champ supposed to fall off but who stays strong throughout the game. > > Same deal with Pantheon, whom they recently nerfed. Supposed to be a strong early game champ that falls off. Total crap, can still 80-0 you in one W combo with stacks at 18 unless you're a full tank. > > Yasuo is frustrating because his passive shield comes back up way too quickly and static shiv gives him way too much sustain in lane. > > There's also the fact his hard hitting nuke is a 3 sec cd reduced by AS, so he can just spam it with 1-2 items and get tornado stacks on top. Ravenous hunter with static shiv then gives him ridiculous sustain in lane on top of his passive shield. I'm up voting you for this. Yasuo needs to be tuned down. The Yasuo mains believe he needs a buff because he has a 48% Winrate but that's not the case. He has one of the most cancerous kit and his laning phase is too good. He does need to be nerfed. And then these Yasuo mains believe he is such a difficult champ to master so he deserves this overturned kit.
> [{quoted}](name=metroman450,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=QfnUYrBn,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-09T23:25:21.824+0000) > > I'm up voting you for this. Yasuo needs to be tuned down. The Yasuo mains believe he needs a buff because he has a 48% Winrate but that's not the case. He has one of the most cancerous kit and his laning phase is too good. He does need to be nerfed. And then these Yasuo mains believe he is such a difficult champ to master so he deserves this overturned kit. And I say this as someone who hates artillery mages and thinks Syndra/Oriana/Zoe/Lux have dominated mid lane way too much. I just don't think making Yasuo with his kit to fight cancer with cancer is the solution.
: "Yasuo is a hyper carry late game"
> [{quoted}](name=metroman450,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=QfnUYrBn,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-09T20:42:16.135+0000) > > The balance team of Riot really needs to get their act together. If a champion has a strong and decent early game and mid game why is it allowed to have an amazing late game. I'm talking about Yasuo. He has an alright early game. Great mid game if he can snowball and an amazing late game. He scales incredibly well. If he is hypercarry late game then reduce his early power and make him have some weaknesses because he is just too safe in laning phase. He only needs one item or two to start wrecking the game. It doesn't make sense for him to have an amazing late game then. Look at Kassadin and Kayle. They have a very weak early but it is to compensate for their late game. I'm not saying to nerf Yasuo to the point where he is completely useless but reducing his armour and Magic resist by 3 and his health by 20 would be a great start. Don't think of it has a huge change. He has a windwall and a passive shield to compensate for it. Decreasing his base Ad by 5 would be good. This is to give him a weaker early just like other scaling champs. > My point is that if a champ will have an amazing and will carry the late game then it should have a weaker early. His early game is not just "alright". He has one of the most oppressive lv2-3's in the entire game and when he gets 6 he can 1v2 both his enemy lane and jg. He's the mid lane version of Renekton, a strong champ supposed to fall off but who stays strong throughout the game. Same deal with Pantheon, whom they recently nerfed. Supposed to be a strong early game champ that falls off. Total crap, can still 80-0 you in one W combo with stacks at 18 unless you're a full tank. Yasuo is frustrating because his passive shield comes back up way too quickly and static shiv gives him way too much sustain in lane. There's also the fact his hard hitting nuke is a 3 sec cd reduced by AS, so he can just spam it with 1-2 items and get tornado stacks on top. Ravenous hunter with static shiv then gives him ridiculous sustain in lane on top of his passive shield.
: akali has bad design
The problem is a half decent Akalis simply cannot be ganked once she builds gunblade. Even before then her shroud, her E leap back, and the spammable Q slow makes her a rather hard champ to pressure in lane as a jungler, so she gets freee reign to dictate her laning phase. The biggest fix to her would be to move her slow from her Q into her E charge, so she gets a slow for a gap closer but cannot spam a conal slow for easy escapes on top of her shroud, her E backflip, and gunblade slow. Akali shares the same issue as Zed, their defensive tools don't share cost with their offensive tools and it makes them both lethal and very safe, whereas Katarina/Talon/Fizz have to use their mobility tools to engage and if they do so they don't have them available for a while to disengage. Akali/Zed kits are unhealthy designs. Giving high damage champs too many juking tools and safety will lead to problems. It's why Kai'sa and Xayah became a problem, high damage ADC's with immense amounts of safety tools for their champ class broke them.
: Why would League taking anything from HOTS? It's a dying game that never made much of a splash. Without items and levels, the game becomes infinitely less complex, and thus matches are extremely boring. Furthermore, there's no reward for playing well individually; you're only rewarded for consistent team play in HOTS. Roflstomp your lane? Cool, it literally means nothing unless your team can actually continually make smart plays together. Got roflstomped? No sweat, they got nothing at all for roflstomping you and you still stand just as high of a chance at winning. There's a reason people didn't flock to HOTS in droves. There's a reason the esports scene never really took off (and is now shutdown). The game, as a whole, is flawed. There's virtually no reason at all for it to be a MOBA with the direction they went -- lane phases are meant for getting early advantages and capitalizing on them. Without any form of reward in place for outplaying your lane opponent(s), it's pointless and just adds a tremendous amount of overhead to each match.
> [{quoted}](name=Phreaktastic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JjJpAbNE,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2019-11-08T23:43:06.444+0000) > > Why would League taking anything from HOTS? It's a dying game that never made much of a splash. > > Without items and levels, the game becomes infinitely less complex, and thus matches are extremely boring. Furthermore, there's no reward for playing well individually; you're only rewarded for consistent team play in HOTS. Roflstomp your lane? Cool, it literally means nothing unless your team can actually continually make smart plays together. Got roflstomped? No sweat, they got nothing at all for roflstomping you and you still stand just as high of a chance at winning. > > There's a reason people didn't flock to HOTS in droves. There's a reason the esports scene never really took off (and is now shutdown). The game, as a whole, is flawed. There's virtually no reason at all for it to be a MOBA with the direction they went -- lane phases are meant for getting early advantages and capitalizing on them. Without any form of reward in place for outplaying your lane opponent(s), it's pointless and just adds a tremendous amount of overhead to each match. lmao, HoTS is a dying game because Blizzard invested jackshit in its esport scene, unlike Riot. Heroes has the talent system to replace the items, and the talent system offers far more variety than my shadow assassin kayn virtually building duskblade+edge of night+youmuus+mobi boots+GA 100% of the time while occasionally replacing youmuus for LDR. You're acting as if people actually use diversity in item builds when the vast majority of the times they don't or the single change in their build is one item plus MAYBE what kind of boots they run. The fact that in HoTS you have to consistently play as a team and the matches revolve around teamfight, skirmishes, and objectives is far superior design to this joke of a League of Bot Lane where worlds was single handedly decided by which bot lane got ahead in laning phase 100% of the time. The fact is you individually beating some inferior/bad player in lane shouldn't turn you into a raid boss to the rest of the enemy team. That's virtually the root of all toxicity in LoL, the resentment of having to suffer through some shithead's inting because not only are they losing their lane, but they are making their opponent YOUR intractable problem as well.
: > [{quoted}](name=GilxeN,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7PQhw3XR,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2019-11-08T13:02:21.517+0000) > >fuck off already and go dominate your lane early, Get ganked and then a jungler blame you for be too aggressive.
> [{quoted}](name=Sleeping Bat,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7PQhw3XR,comment-id=00200000,timestamp=2019-11-08T13:20:36.448+0000) > > Get ganked and then a jungler blame you for be too aggressive. No, it doesn't. If you spam gank while the enemy jungler farms, they'll be 1-2 levels ahead of you no matter how many kills you get. Jg's rely on camps to stay leveled up unless they're taxing lanes, in which case you're setting your laner behind in xp for no reason by taking his xp.
Cräfty (EUW)
: A message from a jungler to all lanes!
If I see totally passive lanes as a jg, that don't contest invades on my jg and don't move to help me contest river, that don't react to me as I path from the river for a gank and stay AFK farming while I waste time on a gank they don't bait or react to, I'm not helping them. Same for leashing. Sure, got get your CS, but because my champion now suffers a less healthy clear I can't contest crab when it pops up and my lv3 ganks are a lot riskier since I can get counterganked at half health. So, if you don't help me, don't expect me to help you. Jungle lives and dies by camp xp. You can be 6 kills in from ganks and still fall a level or two behind an enemy jungler who has been power farming, which means they can start invading you and put you even further behind. People don't seem to understand how important it is to protect their jungler's camps from invades. A jungler will already always be underleveled compared to lanes. If you let enemy lanes and the enemy jungler start taking your jg's camps without contesting, your jg will be useless in record time as he cannot gank or skirmis 2-3 levels behind the opponents.
: What if "Conditioning" Worked Like "Gathering Storm"
> [{quoted}](name=Caretaker Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bg7zOp5F,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-06T17:00:43.789+0000) > > Tanks aren't tanky enough is what people are saying, so what if their late game was to become even better in exchange for how weak they are early? Is this a bad idea? What are your thoughts on tanks in general? > > Ofc, there are flaws here. conditioning has a % thingy doesn't it? Idk. Also conquer is losing its true damage, do yall feel that will already make tanks better? If not, how would you go about making tanks better? Do you even feel tanks have a problem? Doesn't make a difference when most ADC's and fighters are doing % hp damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJgrioLW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-11-04T11:11:03.651+0000) > > Maybe stop chasing a Shaco then? > > Literally, he has to lead you into boxes and his only reliable ability (Shiv) functions as an execute, not reliable poke. > > He offers fuck all else except being a carrot when AP. Stop chasing the carrot without your sweeper. This man speaks the truth
> [{quoted}](name=Worst JG Wins,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJgrioLW,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-04T21:11:34.361+0000) > > This man speaks the truth You stop chasing him, he wins anyways because the point is he can never die short of a long CC chain because the boxes mean he gets to disengage at will and re-engage on a fragile champ with his blink+stealth will be shortly be back up. He's virtually Pyke but worse because he's nowhere near as ult reliant to do his main threat.
: They traded his shield for better wave clear. do you want him to lack in characteristics in both departments?
> [{quoted}](name=Hextech KøgMaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gBFnyG7j,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-11-05T16:24:31.886+0000) > > They traded his shield for better wave clear. do you want him to lack in characteristics in both departments? He has a freaking sprint on top of a root/slow, what more do you want. He's got a long distance group teleport. More importantly, he has the highest commodity in the current meta, waveclear and burst damage. Nothing beats gaining lane prio early to help your jungle contest all crabs and go roam other lanes or invade the enemy jg. There's a reason champs with poor waveclear are garbage.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Once the lanes break out, all bets are off. I won't take jungle camps in the laning phase, but once we're 20 minutes into the game, I still need to farm. If the lanes are shoved out, them I'm getting the gold I can reach safely, which is usually in the jungle. You're free to farm minions at that point, too, since you've likely finished your jungle item.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xhvAdkKf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-05T17:10:51.610+0000) > > Once the lanes break out, all bets are off. I won't take jungle camps in the laning phase, but once we're 20 minutes into the game, I still need to farm. If the lanes are shoved out, them I'm getting the gold I can reach safely, which is usually in the jungle. You're free to farm minions at that point, too, since you've likely finished your jungle item. The value of the jg camp is not the gold, it's the XP, and jg's get reduced income via minions compared to jungle camps.
: Junglers
> [{quoted}](name=Morticianjohn,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=XXZ5Tbps,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-04T19:36:07.964+0000) > > The pros have very diverse picks in every worlds with a changing meta. Seems like pro junglers get locked into a very small pool of champions however. > > Sej (although not much this worlds > Olaf > Rek said > Gragas > Lee sin > J4 > > And maybe a couple I am forgetting. > > Every once in awhile another pick becomes meta till they nerf it out of the jungle (ezreal ivern, or camille) or they buff Lee sin again till he is back in the meta > > I wish we saw some different champs this worlds Oppressive, high burst, early game pick junglers dominate worlds because the fact is junglers as they are designed fall off HARD. They are always underleveled compared to laners and their smite item will always make them statistically inferior to champions who can simply sell their doran's and get 6 full item slots. So as a jg you play champions that can give priority and have impact on the map early. Farming junglers will never be a thing. Games are decided early and objective/lane priority makes them irrelevant. Assassin junglers won't either because why be an assassin when a Lee Sin/Gragas/RekSai/J4 does as much if not better damage early on than them while being more mobile, survivable, and has CC on top. There is literally no point to Rengar/Kha'Zix when Rek'sai/J4/Lee Sin do as high burst if not better than he does with far better perks. The jungle meta will always be centered towards early game CC burst junglers because the jungler's role is to be a secondary support to laners instead of being a full fledged champion.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=0000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-04T16:41:37.086+0000) > > Not tougher, it's that female characters are not tolerated to be ugly but badass, because the assumed artistic purpose of female character design is to be visually appealing whereas this is not an imperative for men. > > The fact that you don't even consider why only one group of people is being pandered to or just posit a chicken or the egg scenario where more thirsty men play these games (as if the fact of how they're designed to appeal mainly to thirsty men has no bearing on the amount of women that play it). I think you missed half my argument. You make an ugly badass female champ, guys go "meh", girls go "meh". For instance, I'm not sure how popular Ana is in overwatch, but the cosplay community certainly doesn't seem to have taken a liking to her unlike Pharrah or Mercy. Also, when's the last time you saw an Illaoi cosplay? Basically never. Again, it's not just the "thirsty guys" argument, but female players also going "look at this cool girl! She has a wonderful wardrobe, cool powers, and I just want to *be* her!" Why make a champ that alienates guys because she's ugly, and alienates girls because she's unappealing as someone to aspire to?
> [{quoted}](name=IlyaK1986,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=00000001000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-04T22:28:58.346+0000) > > I think you missed half my argument. You make an ugly badass female champ, guys go "meh", girls go "meh". For instance, I'm not sure how popular Ana is in overwatch, but the cosplay community certainly doesn't seem to have taken a liking to her unlike Pharrah or Mercy. Also, when's the last time you saw an Illaoi cosplay? Basically never. > > Again, it's not just the "thirsty guys" argument, but female players also going "look at this cool girl! She has a wonderful wardrobe, cool powers, and I just want to *be* her!" > > Why make a champ that alienates guys because she's ugly, and alienates girls because she's unappealing as someone to aspire to? For the same reason very few men cosplay Gragas or Sion? By that logic we would have far more Battle academia Jayce's and Rakan's, because being an attractive and charming fit male sells for females just as well, as evidenced by these strings of female-centered movies where a young, hot, super capable young guy makes for a hit movie even if the plot is total shit (50 shades of grey is execrable writing, but Jamie Dornan sold the movie out; Magic Mike is laughable scripting, but Matt Bomer and Channing Tatum and Joe Manganiello sold the movie out; they didn't cast just your average guy as Superman; they cast Henry Cavill as superman because he's as near to perfect and gorgeous as a man gets). Very few men want to be Roadhogg or Junkrat; most want to be Genji or Hanzo or McCree.
: How the fuck are you supposed to play jungle without feeding and be actually able to enjoy the game?
> [{quoted}](name=FennekIsBronze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VKIGRmo7,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-04T00:11:23.208+0000) > > So I mainly play midlane and figured that jungle would be a good secondary role because I like roaming champions and jungle ties pretty closely with mid lane. I can seem to play every other role to a decent extent and find enjoyment with them but HOLY FUCK do I feed when I play jungle. It's not even like I'm playing a mechanically difficult jungler either, I played Nunu and still got my shit kicked in. The worst part about it is that playing jungle is insanely tilting compared to every other role I played. I honestly have no idea how any sane person would play this role, it is the most unfun role I have played in this game. I try to play to get objectives and get good ganks as well as taking camps and keeping track of the enemy jungler and it usually goes fine for the first 5 minutes and then I die and then die again and again and again and again. It gets to a point where I stop caring and just want to leave, so I can do something else and forget about that game. Sorry for the long rant, it's just really tilting to try as hard as you can and still end up 0/4 5 games in a row. Any advice is appreciated. Jungle is a secondary support. If you have garbage laners who don't follow up on your ganks or help contest your jungle and river from invades, you will lose, that simple. Jungle cannot do anything without winning lanes unless you play a yolo farm Jax/Yi and play for late game 1v9. Most importantly, games live and die by who gets the winning bot lane. If you get a garbage bot lane, the game is pretty much gone unless you get a fiora/jax top who get super fed and your frontline is strong enough to allow them to dive and clean up. People think jungle is a carry lane. Not at all, you are an enhancer lane. If there is no lane to enhance, you'll get nowhere. If you want to carry, play ADC, it's the only role that matters since it's been so massively overbuffed. Look at Worlds and LCS, games live and die by the winning bot lane.
Flemman (EUW)
: Box just need the teemo shroom/zyra plant health bar system for champion damage, that would fix a lot of issue imo
> [{quoted}](name=Flemman,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IJgrioLW,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-11-04T17:24:30.307+0000) > > Box just need the teemo shroom/zyra plant health bar system for champion damage, that would fix a lot of issue imo Would change nothing because they are invisible, trigger CC when you would try to kill it, and it's got a fairly trivial cd so the shaco can plop them on demand for self peel or engage on top of his 2 already ridiculous disengage tools in his blink+stealth on top of his clone ult.
: can we just address AP shaco already
His box fear duration should be reduced to 0.5 sec and his blink's stealth needs a nerf in duration and cooldown. He's way too safe for how much damage he does. Safe assassins is an oxymoron and shouldn't exist. My only answer to him is to virtually go Red Kayn or warwick to CC him to death and even then he may get away to constantly pop up and harass with his ranged nuke that for some reason also does a ton of damage on top of slowing the target.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=00000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-04T03:30:19.524+0000) > > lmao Morgana and Kayle are nominally hundreds of years old, they look like in their 20's. Jinx is wearing a bikini with short shorts. I know you're trying to be the akshually guy in this convo but you're gonna have to do a better job of downplaying the obvious pandering to the T&A crowd in videogame character design. Of course they're pandering. Here's the thing about female champs that are pretty but in the realm of proportionate: "guys want them, girls want to be them". It's a win-win. Sure, there are a bunch of monstrous, unattractive male characters, but they make up for that with being badass/powerful/etc. That's a bit tougher to do with the fairer sex.
> [{quoted}](name=IlyaK1986,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-04T12:51:54.642+0000) > > Of course they're pandering. Here's the thing about female champs that are pretty but in the realm of proportionate: "guys want them, girls want to be them". It's a win-win. Sure, there are a bunch of monstrous, unattractive male characters, but they make up for that with being badass/powerful/etc. > > That's a bit tougher to do with the fairer sex. Not tougher, it's that female characters are not tolerated to be ugly but badass, because the assumed artistic purpose of female character design is to be visually appealing whereas this is not an imperative for men. The fact that you don't even consider why only one group of people is being pandered to or just posit a chicken or the egg scenario where more thirsty men play these games (as if the fact of how they're designed to appeal mainly to thirsty men has no bearing on the amount of women that play it).
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-03T17:07:12.248+0000) > > Age as well. > > Males have variety of ages, are scarred and can look grizzled/50+ years of age. > > Virtually all the females look 20-30 and the supposed old female character, Camille, has a bunch of skins that turn her 20-30. > > How many morbidly obese females like Gragas or decrepit females do you see? Right, none. All youthful and vital. > > Fact is this and other supposedly woke game companies pay much lip service but when it comes to making money from thirsty teenage male players the female characters are cynically designed just for that goal. Akali I think is 18. So technically not in this category. And the base skin doesn't particularly go for the sexy vibe (though her pre-rework the way Gronic drew her? Ye gods.) Illaoi doesn't qualify, nor does Annie. Kayle and Morgana are hundreds of years old. Zoe's hundreds of years old, in the body of a child. Yuumi is a cat. Jinx is as rebellious teenager as they come. Camille's skins are Program (evil and inhuman), Coven Camille (evil and looking much older than 30), and iG Camille, which...I suppose qualifies? Congratulations?
> [{quoted}](name=IlyaK1986,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=0000000100000001,timestamp=2019-11-04T01:28:00.225+0000) > > Akali I think is 18. So technically not in this category. And the base skin doesn't particularly go for the sexy vibe (though her pre-rework the way Gronic drew her? Ye gods.) Illaoi doesn't qualify, nor does Annie. Kayle and Morgana are hundreds of years old. Zoe's hundreds of years old, in the body of a child. Yuumi is a cat. Jinx is as rebellious teenager as they come. > > Camille's skins are Program (evil and inhuman), Coven Camille (evil and looking much older than 30), and iG Camille, which...I suppose qualifies? Congratulations? lmao Morgana and Kayle are nominally hundreds of years old, they look like in their 20's. Jinx is wearing a bikini with short shorts. I know you're trying to be the akshually guy in this convo but you're gonna have to do a better job of downplaying the obvious pandering to the T&A crowd in videogame character design.
Daszkal (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-03T17:07:12.248+0000) > > Age as well. > > Males have variety of ages, are scarred and can look grizzled/50+ years of age. > > Virtually all the females look 20-30 and the supposed old female character, Camille, has a bunch of skins that turn her 20-30. > > How many morbidly obese females like Gragas or decrepit females do you see? Right, none. All youthful and vital. > > Fact is this and other supposedly woke game companies pay much lip service but when it comes to making money from thirsty teenage male players the female characters are cynically designed just for that goal. {{champion:420}} and {{champion:421}} who are two big buff mature women also exist, you know?
> [{quoted}](name=Daszkal,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T18:15:28.782+0000) > > {{champion:420}} and {{champion:421}} who are two big buff mature women also exist, you know? lol mature. Illaoi looks no older than 30 and despite being muscular was given a lot of curves to compensate. She's decidedly designed to mitigate the ugliness. Rek'sai is a beast, it's like calling Cho'gath a male character representation. Look at all our female ADC's and tell me they're not some Victoria's Secret ensemble. Or female mages for that matter. Even Nidalee is this super buxom amazonian teenager and the newest champ, Qiyana, has such absurdly overexaggerated hips. Compare the amount of Kai'sas and Caitlyns we have compared to Battle academia Jayces, because even when we have Jayce and Lee Sin hardly any of the young, fit, non-scarred male characters are totally sexualized in their dressing.
: Personally, I have more of a problem with the variety within the design of champions from different genders. For example: if you were to tell me the the next champion is female, I'd have an idea what they'd look like (attractive, human-looking, maybe some variety of monster girl) and odds are I'd be right; but if you told me that the new champion is male, that would basically tell me nothing about what they'd look like, are we getting an old man like Zilean? A slab of man-meat like Braum? A twig like Twisted Fate? Or maybe something that isn't even human like Aurelio Sol?
> [{quoted}](name=OrionTheHunter,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2c1mKqli,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-11-03T15:52:04.427+0000) > > Personally, I have more of a problem with the variety within the design of champions from different genders. For example: if you were to tell me the the next champion is female, I'd have an idea what they'd look like (attractive, human-looking, maybe some variety of monster girl) and odds are I'd be right; but if you told me that the new champion is male, that would basically tell me nothing about what they'd look like, are we getting an old man like Zilean? A slab of man-meat like Braum? A twig like Twisted Fate? Or maybe something that isn't even human like Aurelio Sol? Age as well. Males have variety of ages, are scarred and can look grizzled/50+ years of age. Virtually all the females look 20-30 and the supposed old female character, Camille, has a bunch of skins that turn her 20-30. How many morbidly obese females like Gragas or decrepit females do you see? Right, none. All youthful and vital. Fact is this and other supposedly woke game companies pay much lip service but when it comes to making money from thirsty teenage male players the female characters are cynically designed just for that goal.
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5WNt42P1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-02T14:06:50.060+0000) > > So...how are you compensating her for removing 90% of the use of her ult? There shouldn't be any. Qiyana's ulti would be extremely strong with just the knock back + damage component, as it's still an immense nuke with a gigantic range that displaces numerous people and can afflict a positively massive zone depending on where you use it. Having a hard stun ONTOP of all of that is nuts. There's a reason she's pick / ban in the pro scene.
> [{quoted}](name=MorganFreemanBot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5WNt42P1,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-11-02T22:12:06.344+0000) > > There shouldn't be any. > > Qiyana's ulti would be extremely strong with just the knock back + damage component, as it's still an immense nuke with a gigantic range that displaces numerous people and can afflict a positively massive zone depending on where you use it. > > Having a hard stun ONTOP of all of that is nuts. There's a reason she's pick / ban in the pro scene. lol pick/ban. Check the latest worlds finals and she barely shows up. She has abysmal waveclear, which cripples her lane prio, and she falls off hard like Katarina and Talon. Her whole kits revolves around the environment, so don't be damn next to a wall with a Qiyana in game, same as you wouldn't with a Poppy or Vayne. I can't believe people are still whining about assassins when worlds has been nothing but mages and adc's in mid lane.
pwc2016 (NA)
: I can't win
> [{quoted}](name=pwc2016,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VfIE328K,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-02T23:22:38.072+0000) > > Just had a game vs Fiora. > > Went 8/0 in lane. 2 items by 15 minutes. By 25ish minutes, had 5 items. > > Still lost. It was ridiculous. Nobody on my team would do anything. No follow up. > This is ridiculous. I don't understand why this game is being made so that being incredibly fed means nothing. > I don't know if Yuumi is OP or wtf is going on, because everytime I play against her as Vlad, I lose. > 3 of my past 10 games I have been absolutely _insane_ . I was 14/8/2 on Fiora and we almost won a game where every other lane was behind. I was a 6/2 Cho'gath and still lost the game when every other lane was behind. I got EVERY lane ahead as Lee Sin going 9/2 and lost. This game I went 8/3/2 or sum. Another Vlad game I got super fed, went 3/0 in lane and ended 8/7/8 because guess what? The other lanes were behind. I played Thresh support and ended 5/6/9 and bot lane was super ahead...we still lost because every other role was behind. I was ahead 2/1 on Syndra vs Annie. Lost the game and ended 2/3. > I don't get how to carry games. I have so many games where it starts of so well for me but every other lane is losing. I'm not saying I'm perfect in all my games and I'm not even close to perfect. But my 2 Vlad games I've done super well, did great on one of my 2 Fiora games, did fabulously as Lee Sin, had a great lane as Thresh, and did well as Syndra, and had a good Ryze game. But I've won ONE of my past 10 games despite doing really well in at least 7 of my past ten. I expect to lose some games, but Jesus, I don't have any motivation to even play anymore. I constantly get ahead but it always means literally nothing. > > Any suggestions? Sorry if this sounds mean, I'm just kind of frustrated that what I do makes no difference in the game. It's a team game. If you want a game with outcomes attached to individual performance, don't play team based games. Find people to queue with to reduce the coinflip nature of the game.
: Kayle needs to be nerfed so badly
The ult should stasis her like Zhonyas so she can't just move and chase and basically keep all offensive momentum. The biggest problem to Kayle is the ult not only gives her safety, but when she moves to teamfights in mid to late game she can just ult the ADC and they autowin teamfights with an adc that cannot be touched.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=000400000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-02T23:54:35.547+0000) > > They're doing the same with several ADC's anyways. A 7 kill Kai'sa was almost able to duel out my Rhaast when she was at 70% health and I did not miss a single skill (I was 6 kills in at that point). Constant shifting around with stealth, got it off twice in the encounter with a fat ass shield on top of her damage. > > A lone ADC should never be able to 1v1 any champion but a support, period. This was what I hated back during the assassin rework (and still pretty relevant except a few broken assassins). If an assassin catches out an adc they should be dead most of the time, not have a 50:50 shot at winning. It’s actually crazy. Why should I ever play an assassin or any melee for that matter when ranged champions outdo them at everything? Especially adcs. The whole point of an adc is supposed to be siege, objective control, and late game damage. As it stands, adcs dominate the early, mid, _and_ late game. I used to main Nocturne and then later Akali way back. It’s so annoying to me because adc players will complain about how unfair nocturne is, but refuse to consider that my ult requires them to be terribly out of position, delivers me into the middle of nowhere with no way to escape—easily collapsed upon, and furthermore without it I have no way of actually doing anything to someone who doesn’t severely misplay. If I succeed in killing them when they make an awful mistake, then it’s “unfair” and they “should have a fair shot at winning the fight.” Meanwhile, enjoy her as many might, the new akali (as opposed to the original old akali, the one before the mini rework, which made me quit playing her) has to _massively_ outplay an opponent who only has to right click from afar. There is a lenience for the adc to make mistakes but if akali makes mistakes she’s oftendead. I miss old old akali since she felt so smooth, I was wishing Riot just touched up on her kit instead of what they did. Now people hate her more and she is less capable than she was before (except when making da flashy plays, if that’s what riles you up)
> [{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=0004000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T00:00:22.295+0000) > > This was what I hated back during the assassin rework (and still pretty relevant except a few broken assassins). If an assassin catches out an adc they should be dead most of the time, not have a 50:50 shot at winning. It’s actually crazy. Why should I ever play an assassin or any melee for that matter when ranged champions outdo them at everything? Especially adcs. > > The whole point of an adc is supposed to be siege, objective control, and late game damage. As it stands, adcs dominate the early, mid, _and_ late game. I used to main Nocturne and then later Akali way back. It’s so annoying to me because adc players will complain about how unfair nocturne is, but refuse to consider that my ult requires them to be terribly out of position, delivers me into the middle of nowhere with no way to escape—easily collapsed upon, and furthermore without it I have no way of actually doing anything to someone who doesn’t severely misplay. If I succeed in killing them when they make an awful mistake, then it’s “unfair” and they “should have a fair shot at winning the fight.” > > Meanwhile, enjoy her as many might, the new akali (as opposed to the original old akali, the one before the mini rework, which made me quit playing her) has to _massively_ outplay an opponent who only has to right click from afar. There is a lenience for the adc to make mistakes but if akali makes mistakes she’s oftendead. I miss old old akali since she felt so smooth, I was wishing Riot just touched up on her kit instead of what they did. Now people hate her more and she is less capable than she was before (except when making da flashy plays, if that’s what riles you up) For me it's the simple fact that bot lane is a 2 man lane and should be balanced as such. A champion class that gets to win lane with the help of another player should not be as individually strong as a solo lane, ever. That's supposed to be the drawback of these champs, but Xayah and Kai'sa are just breaking this rule and honestly so is Caitlyn. They are supposed to be a duo force of support+adc that bring the perks of teamfight dominance. I wasn't even an assassin. I was Rhaast, a damn fighter with BC and tabis and supposedly a tanky bruiser and this Kaisa almost melted me in 2 rotations with a 30% health disadvantage, and I didn't miss a single skill of mine. I killed her with 10% ehalth remaining after using my ult and smite, that should never be happening against an ADC.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=0004000000010001,timestamp=2019-11-02T22:28:18.194+0000) > > The laughable part is the scaling because he's supposed to be an early champ with a hard fall off but just like Renekton they just make these champions strong at all points of the game with hardly any fall off. At least renekton actually falls off in terms of mobility (less so thanks to shojin) (while also lacking comparable scaling to leesin). Leesin “falls off” because he’s basically not as comparatively broken late game as he is early game.
> [{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=00040000000100010000,timestamp=2019-11-02T23:46:50.045+0000) > > At least renekton actually falls off in terms of mobility (less so thanks to shojin) (while also lacking comparable scaling to leesin). Leesin “falls off” because he’s basically not as comparatively broken late game as he is early game. They're doing the same with several ADC's anyways. A 7 kill Kai'sa was almost able to duel out my Rhaast when she was at 70% health and I did not miss a single skill (I was 6 kills in at that point). Constant shifting around with stealth, got it off twice in the encounter with a fat ass shield on top of her damage. A lone ADC should never be able to 1v1 any champion but a support, period.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-02T17:08:24.279+0000) > > Ding ding ding. > > I love it when hypermobile bruisers can press QRQ and delete someone without even trying with only one actual damage item! But wait! That’s his ULTIMATE after all, so it’s fair, right ~~His Q definitely doesn’t have a 310-465 base damage with a 190%-280% bonus ad scaling~~ Seriously 310+190%-465+280% on a dash on a 7 second cooldown. The base damage is so high he can go tank and still burst squishies, the scaling is so high he can go damage and burst tanks (and the squishy as well if he aims R right)
> [{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5teEQrzd,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2019-11-02T17:50:43.255+0000) > > But wait! That’s his ULTIMATE after all, so it’s fair, right > > ~~His Q definitely doesn’t have a 310-465 base damage with a 190%-280% bonus ad scaling~~ > > Seriously 310+190%-465+280% on a dash on a 7 second cooldown. The base damage is so high he can go tank and still burst squishies, the scaling is so high he can go damage and burst tanks (and the squishy as well if he aims R right) The laughable part is the scaling because he's supposed to be an early champ with a hard fall off but just like Renekton they just make these champions strong at all points of the game with hardly any fall off.
: I make no comment to the strength or weakness of Kennen. I comment solely on his kit, and the fact that *any* champion who can have continuing damage, especially on a fucking large AoE stun, while you **literally cannot kill him because he is in Zhonya's**, is a problem.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wWmUfGd4,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-02T12:40:47.299+0000) > > I make no comment to the strength or weakness of Kennen. I comment solely on his kit, and the fact that *any* champion who can have continuing damage, especially on a fucking large AoE stun, while you **literally cannot kill him because he is in Zhonya's**, is a problem. If he Zhonya's the aoe zone is stationary and Mercurial Scimitar exists for a reason. This sounds like people who complain about Mordekaiser, Malzahar, and Warwick but don't want to itemize because it would disrupt their precious usual build paths. Kennen is one of the least problematic offenders, since his kit makes him choose to give up his stuns for offense or defense but not both, and his engage tool is also his disengage tool. Problem champions are ones like Akali, Kayle, Zed, and Tryndamere whose tools allow them to maintain offensive momentum while at the same time benefiting from defensive options.
: thresh is as much of a tank as rakan is. sure they can build tank items and serve as a strong engage but they generally lack the stats/numbers to build as a dedicated tank and still have ideal effect on the game. you shouldnt be building exclusivly tank or enchanter items, it should be a mix.
> [{quoted}](name=rubberduckie666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ai8TFEU3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-01T22:29:47.678+0000) > > thresh is as much of a tank as rakan is. sure they can build tank items and serve as a strong engage but they generally lack the stats/numbers to build as a dedicated tank and still have ideal effect on the game. > you shouldnt be building exclusivly tank or enchanter items, it should be a mix. Rakan with aftershock is disgustingly survivable, certainly as much as any juggernaut even if slightly behind Leona, and he makes up for that with amazing mobility to juke and make and frustrate engages.
: Why is Fiora allowed to "Cripple" me, but Darius with his "Crippling Strike" not?
Fiora is infinitely squishier than Darius, besides her long ass cd parry she's made of paper. Darius's apprehend is a guaranteed hard CC, Fiora has to time her parry to get hard CC out of it. Darius also has aoe damage and a rolling execute built into his kit. He's an infinitely better teamfighter than Fiora and if Fiora does not get fed in lane to snowball her split push she becomes totally irrelevant. Fiora is all about the lv2-3 cheese. If she fails that, she's screwed for a long time.
: What? It sounds like you're complaining about **new** Akali. It was pretty clear from context that I was referring to **old** Akali, who was problematic, but not at the same tier of problem Kennen is.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wWmUfGd4,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T13:20:36.451+0000) > > What? > > It sounds like you're complaining about **new** Akali. It was pretty clear from context that I was referring to **old** Akali, who was problematic, but not at the same tier of problem Kennen is. How often have you seen Kennen top lately? That's right, almost never because he blows up if you so much as sneeze at him. Not people's fault if you don't take the right runes and start dorans with second wind and flash+ghost to run him down if you don't manage to facetank his lv 1-2 poke. He's in Darius E range if he goes in for an autoattack, as well as his Q blade range. He's in Morde E+Q range. Fiora decimates him, and so does Irelia for that matter. Jax is not too different and Renekton is the same. He's about as gimmicky as teemo and the only redeeming thing about him is his ult in teamfights. By going Kennen you also deny your team a frontline so good luck with helping your adc and mages not get vaporized by the enemy team's diving juggernauts/fighters once that ult is down and they didn't clump up for it.
PzyXo (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ebxy0W3e,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-11-01T03:16:26.008+0000) > > Don't underestimate Kayn early game ganks. He still does enough damage for an easy 2v1 and he has incredibly easy gank routes to avoid wards. As soon as you get Rhaast you can even duel most junglers that aren't Yi or Jax. > > I think nerfing xp from lanes or jungle is a terrible idea. > > The nerf should come by removing xp from kills. That way inters have far less deleterious effects on the rest of their team. The gold lead is bad enough. I'm not underestimating Kayn's ganks which are truly trash except if the enemy laner is overextended without a flash. By nerfing exp on lanes I mean NERFING EXP FROM MINIONS EARLY GAME TO ANYONE WHO HAS SMITE. Simple :P
> [{quoted}](name=PzyXo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ebxy0W3e,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-01T08:31:50.606+0000) > > I'm not underestimating Kayn's ganks which are truly trash except if the enemy laner is overextended without a flash. > > By nerfing exp on lanes I mean NERFING EXP FROM MINIONS EARLY GAME TO ANYONE WHO HAS SMITE. Simple :P I mean, the whole point of ganks is that the enemy is overextended by the river? Outside the odd cheese bush ganks when the enemy backs. If you get a drop you get a flash or a kill regardless of what jungler you are, and Kayn's ganks are no worse than Kindred's if he lands his W, especially post-buff. He's no 1v1 champ early but his clear speeds in jungle clearly show he's no wimp damage wise.
PzyXo (EUW)
: You asked for a discussion in the end, here I go : >For example Kha Zix Q and Kayn Q being changed to do more damage to monsters and minions. This will stop champs like Karthus and Dr Mundo from going into the jungle, creating balance nightmares for everyone else I didn't understand this one. Can you please make it clear? >Add more jungle camps. There should be more jungle camps, making people pick and choose which ones they can do early without dying or being too low in case of a counter jungle. This will allow junglers to counter jungle the enemy if they decide to gank, making ganks more rare and making jungle an interactive role. This will make junglers useless 100%. This will make them just farming simulators + Its boring to just farm all game. You saw the jungle role from inside, not outside. Imagine botlane playing Ashe/Janna vs Draven/Blitz with the enemy jungler being Camille for example. This will be nightmare for them. When we talk about jungle, we talk about the secondary support who controls the game. Take that in note friend <3 >Rework the scuttle. Scuttle isn't fun or interesting because it's almost always based on your laners and not how good you are at the jungle. Maybe make it so it only spawns for your team if you kill X amount of camps. (Must allow for counter jungling to be done if the enemy decides to rush scuttle for the vision and extra sustain/exp. I'm against these, This will make junglers more useless for laners. the jungler's job is to help the team by either ganking, taking objectives, giving laners vision. As we used to see in s7, scuttle was the most important thing in the game after drake in early game, because of Xin Zhao and Camille..etc, so by removing the scuttle, it'll make it more harder for laners to react to these champs who gank early. Even if the farmer junglers can't gank well, they help laners by using scuttles/drakes. What I suggest is to just give less exp from lanes to anyone who got "SMITE", and balance camps's exp. The jungle problem is done. This is my point of view since I play every type of junglers : - Xin Zhao for early ganks - Kha'Zix for early midgame controlling - Kayn for farming simulator - Shaco for anti-farming simulator XD I still respect your points tho. Just giving my ideas
> [{quoted}](name=PzyXo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ebxy0W3e,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-01T00:13:29.889+0000) > > You asked for a discussion in the end, here I go : > > I didn't understand this one. Can you please make it clear? > > This will make junglers useless 100%. This will make them just farming simulators + Its boring to just farm all game. You saw the jungle role from inside, not outside. Imagine botlane playing Ashe/Janna vs Draven/Blitz with the enemy jungler being Camille for example. This will be nightmare for them. When we talk about jungle, we talk about the secondary support who controls the game. Take that in note friend <3 > > > I'm against these, This will make junglers more useless for laners. the jungler's job is to help the team by either ganking, taking objectives, giving laners vision. As we used to see in s7, scuttle was the most important thing in the game after drake in early game, because of Xin Zhao and Camille..etc, so by removing the scuttle, it'll make it more harder for laners to react to these champs who gank early. Even if the farmer junglers can't gank well, they help laners by using scuttles/drakes. > > > What I suggest is to just give less exp from lanes to anyone who got "SMITE", and balance camps's exp. The jungle problem is done. This is my point of view since I play every type of junglers : > > - Xin Zhao for early ganks > - Kha'Zix for early midgame controlling > - Kayn for farming simulator > - Shaco for anti-farming simulator XD > > I still respect your points tho. Just giving my ideas Don't underestimate Kayn early game ganks. He still does enough damage for an easy 2v1 and he has incredibly easy gank routes to avoid wards. As soon as you get Rhaast you can even duel most junglers that aren't Yi or Jax. I think nerfing xp from lanes or jungle is a terrible idea. The nerf should come by removing xp from kills. That way inters have far less deleterious effects on the rest of their team. The gold lead is bad enough.
PzyXo (EUW)
: Shyvana and Malphite's magic scale should be nerfed
Shyvana is a total gimmick, if you allowed her to get to late without invading her into oblivion and taking all her dragons because she can't contest 90% of the junglers early to mid game, then you deserve to lose.
Rαy (EUW)
: Spam Ganks are annoying and Farming Junglers struggle: How does reducing Jungle Xp improve anything?
> [{quoted}](name=Rαy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2u4yBt2y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-31T13:22:20.633+0000) > > I don't get the logic behind this. Riot is encouraging the spam gank meta with every single jungle change even further. I'm a jungle main myself and hate being forced to crawl up some laners' ass the whole time. I want to master counterjungling, not just brainlessly destroy botlane for the 20th game in a row. > > People don't complain about this role, because its camps are too valuable - they complain about this role because it is forced to sit in their lane every 20 seconds due to its camps not being valuable enough. > > I used to be a midlane main back in seasons 3-4 and when I recently tried out the role again, I was incredibly disappointed, as it boils down to who gets gangbanged the hardest. There is barely any interaction with your lane opponent anymore. You push the lane, then you either roam to bamboozle botlane or you just get bamboozled yourself. > > How does forcing junglers NOT to farm their camps improve anything? Nerfing ganks is outright r%%%%%ed. If you're not a strong 1v1 jungler and they increase jungle xp then that means the Udyr/Warwick/Xin Zhao/Shaco/Master Yi/Lee Sin take even more of your camps in invades and gain even more levels over you as you become useless far more quickly from being massively outleveled. Ganks are the only way junglers that are not strong early duelists can keep up in xp and gold. Nerfing them is stupid because early game duelists will benefit doubly, from gaining even more jungle xp off invades on top of the fact they're already strong gankers.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FQLvigHE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-29T22:47:48.083+0000) > > How so? He may be adaptable, but optimization is still done at the champ select screen with runes, so it's not like he's 2 champs in 1 at full effectiveness. > > I just like the variety in approaches he offers. And his moveset doesn't feel like total garbage to play against since much of his threat is fairly telegraphed and offers counteplay, unlike most point and click autoattack garbage champs or stealth spam 2 shot champs. The problem isn't really his overall balance, but the balance between Rhaast and Shadow Assassin Kayn is really fragile. One buff to one can easily render the other inferior. There were times Shadow Assassin Kayn was so bad, that picking it was considered trolling. Also sometimes you just don't have a pick between the two, because the transformation depends on what kind of champions you damaged most times, for which, e.g the enemy is full of ranged, then you either remain in normal Kayn form for a while, rendering you basically useless for another x minutes, or you pick Shadow Assassin Kayn. Also I would only pick Kayn, if I'm not picking first, because first picking Kayn can lead to drafting problems. Not knowing most of the enemy draft beforehand can be problematic and if your team e.g doesn't have frontline and you can't afford to go Rhaast, then you might make the game difficult for everyone. What Kayn will pick from the two is usually decided at the beginning of the game. Furthermore another note: Rhaast can't use electrocute effectively. He is a skirmisher, which means he excels at longer combats from his innate self-healing. Rhaast plays more or less the same as Aatrox, because I saw people doing pentas with Rhaast, his teamfight is awesome. Rhaast also doesn't build a lot of damage, so electrocute will fall off on him. It might be just me, but I think from playing a lot of him, he just can't utilize Electrocute at all, even Shadow Assassin Kayn is better off with Dark Harvest.
> [{quoted}](name=Smyrage,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FQLvigHE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T09:20:53.765+0000) > > The problem isn't really his overall balance, but the balance between Rhaast and Shadow Assassin Kayn is really fragile. One buff to one can easily render the other inferior. There were times Shadow Assassin Kayn was so bad, that picking it was considered trolling. Also sometimes you just don't have a pick between the two, because the transformation depends on what kind of champions you damaged most times, for which, e.g the enemy is full of ranged, then you either remain in normal Kayn form for a while, rendering you basically useless for another x minutes, or you pick Shadow Assassin Kayn. > > Also I would only pick Kayn, if I'm not picking first, because first picking Kayn can lead to drafting problems. Not knowing most of the enemy draft beforehand can be problematic and if your team e.g doesn't have frontline and you can't afford to go Rhaast, then you might make the game difficult for everyone. What Kayn will pick from the two is usually decided at the beginning of the game. > > Furthermore another note: Rhaast can't use electrocute effectively. He is a skirmisher, which means he excels at longer combats from his innate self-healing. Rhaast plays more or less the same as Aatrox, because I saw people doing pentas with Rhaast, his teamfight is awesome. Rhaast also doesn't build a lot of damage, so electrocute will fall off on him. > > It might be just me, but I think from playing a lot of him, he just can't utilize Electrocute at all, even Shadow Assassin Kayn is better off with Dark Harvest. Electrocute is there for your early game. It helps you duel out in the river and pull off early ganks as non-form Kayn, and conqueror is gimped imo on Rhaast because in this meta things die in a stun and ramping up conqueror mostly happens by the time a fight's already decided one way or another. As Kayn you're not really dealing with tanks; you're a hard to kill bruiser who can soak damage until your ult is spent, but you are still playing to basically lock down the enemy backline and its mages or peel your own ADC with the W knock ups. In many of those cases electrocute does that job just fine. I recently came off a game where the Annie was fed by an atrocious Ahri we had and it meant nothing because as Rhaast with spirit visage I could absorb a fed Annie's burst and still have 40% health remaining to heal all the way back up with W and ult alongside shadow walk. People really underestimate Rhaast's damage, it's not that much less than shadow kayn and that's why shadow assassin is a way more niche pick, because you give up mass CC and far better survivability for slightly more burst and better flanking access with a reduced shadow walk cd. Rhaast with electrocute will still make short work of anything that's not a tank. And anything you would benefit from conqueror like Garen/Sion/Poppy/Shen turns out too much of a prolonged fight not worth the while or if it's a Jax/Yi/Fiora/Irelia you will die to all the same. Dark Harvest is too much an investment into a late game when imo in soloQ most games are determined by minute 10. I think a better change to Kayn would be to reduce the form alternative cd down to 1-1.5 minutes instead. I don't think he's even useless pre-form. He's still stronger than an early to midgame Evelynn for example, and while he does not do Khazix/Rengar/Lee Sin early burst, he has an incredibly healthy jungle clear and fairly respectable damage to kill ADC's and mages on your own.
Naalith (NA)
: Great, another interesting new champion that's gonna be deleted due to pro play
The global beam needs to go. It fires way too quickly to not be an abusable better version of Karthus ult/ashe arrow/jinx rocket. It's gonna be a nightmare to be a top/midlane past lv6 when you know on any engagement the Senna can snipe you from half a map away.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: While I agree with most things you said, but he is a balance nightmare as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Smyrage,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FQLvigHE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-29T20:17:12.385+0000) > > While I agree with most things you said, but he is a balance nightmare as well. How so? He may be adaptable, but optimization is still done at the champ select screen with runes, so it's not like he's 2 champs in 1 at full effectiveness. I just like the variety in approaches he offers. And his moveset doesn't feel like total garbage to play against since much of his threat is fairly telegraphed and offers counteplay, unlike most point and click autoattack garbage champs or stealth spam 2 shot champs.
: It's not really high noon if they're modled after native americans, especially when their colors and designs suggest more northern tribes (even if the amount of "clothes" don't) I find it unlikely riot will make native americans especially since people freaked out when Phara was given a native american skin when she IS native american. I feel like it might be better to have it a seperate thing from high noon. Like Mystacism Illaoi or something.
> [{quoted}](name=ProExpertKing,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=xznoKLfq,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-10-28T20:53:51.406+0000) > > It's not really high noon if they're modled after native americans, especially when their colors and designs suggest more northern tribes (even if the amount of "clothes" don't) > > I find it unlikely riot will make native americans especially people freaked out when Phara was given a native american skin when she IS native american. Could have sworn Phara was Egyptian ;x. She even had that eyelid tatoo.
Comentários de Rioters
Rockman (NA)
: Do you think theres an annoying rapper in the Shadow Isles?
: Problem is everything with Riot is so extreme. If we have a slower meta then early game stops mattering. If tanks are relevant then you can't play assassins anymore. If ADCs get more agency early game then they 1v9 if they win lane. This company with all their "Data" can't find the balance between the extremes, so god damn mediocre.
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=655oYE3q,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2019-10-28T06:12:47.595+0000) > > Problem is everything with Riot is so extreme. If we have a slower meta then early game stops mattering. > > If tanks are relevant then you can't play assassins anymore. > > If ADCs get more agency early game then they 1v9 if they win lane. > > This company with all their "Data" can't find the balance between the extremes, so god damn mediocre. Not necessarily. The answer to assassins is the wukong passive where their defenses scale up the more people there are so they can stay relevant in teamfights but not broken in 1v1. Toned down assassin burst wouldn't be a problem if they were able to sustain through multiple engagements. The problem is even tanks themselves melt under a lv10 ADC's focus fire let alone the combination of 4 people. Defenses for melee champions need to scale to the amount of nearby champions.
: It's getting annoying af to see nothing but Xayah & Kai'Sa in literally every game in Worlds
Who knew, the strongest and most potent scaling and valuable teamfighting class of champions with self peels to mitigate their one supposed weakness turns out to be a problem. Which is why ADC's should have remained like Jhin/Jinx/Kog'maw in design. Ashe is similarly immobile but they buffed up her damage so much that she can still kill you in the time of a point blank ult stun while kiting out. They've also exacerbated the power of ADC's by giving supports stronger and stronger ways of peeling them and keeping them alive, so virtually all of the outcomes you see in worlds and in soloQ in general are about getting the bot lane ahead.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: Nidalee is very weak when it comes to invades. You almost can't contest any of the current meta jungle since you need to : have enough mana, early mana on nida is a pain so you have low hp after clears, slow early clear due to need of kiting, you need to hit the spear to warrant a 1v1 win. So if the opponent has decent reflexes and it's not stupid to CJ without wards, tough luck as Nidalee. Where Nidalee excels is at early ganks and map roaming. Her current higher than 50% win rate is due to this, you pick a busted lane and snowball it. And since the games averagely end up early especially in high ELO and the fact only Nida mains play Nida, she might look busted. But no, Nida is way underpowered compared to other champs, but she's damn fun to play
> [{quoted}](name=GripaAviara,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKItzN8n,comment-id=000100020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-28T00:19:20.903+0000) > > Nidalee is very weak when it comes to invades. You almost can't contest any of the current meta jungle since you need to : have enough mana, early mana on nida is a pain so you have low hp after clears, slow early clear due to need of kiting, you need to hit the spear to warrant a 1v1 win. So if the opponent has decent reflexes and it's not stupid to CJ without wards, tough luck as Nidalee. > > Where Nidalee excels is at early ganks and map roaming. Her current higher than 50% win rate is due to this, you pick a busted lane and snowball it. And since the games averagely end up early especially in high ELO and the fact only Nida mains play Nida, she might look busted. > > But no, Nida is way underpowered compared to other champs, but she's damn fun to play I never said Nida is busted. I said she's a flexible champ with a kitt hat allwos her to do what jg's are meant to do, snowball other lanes. It's not like with the current shit jg xp design where jg is always 1-2 levels behind enemy laners we will ever be something more than snowball enablers outside yi and jax jg.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: So Nidalee has an 8 min powerspike over ekko .... broken Nidalee
> [{quoted}](name=GripaAviara,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LKItzN8n,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2019-10-27T23:50:27.305+0000) > > So Nidalee has an 8 min powerspike over ekko .... broken Nidalee Nidalee is a versatile jungler who's not weak to invades and scales up well while being able to pressure at all points of the game. Ekko is a pure gimmick as a champion and there's a reason he's in jg instead of midlane; all champs who suck ass in lane go to jg because they have to fight bad match ups way less (just like Wukong and Camille went jg because they were weak as hell as top laners).
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Crescent Dusk

Nível 139 (NA)
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