: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvAsXkEr,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-01-25T19:17:04.201+0000) > > We're here too! > > Compare the number of comments on here vs reddit tho :/ > > And the fact that this post has more down than upvotes lol In all seriousness, I’m glad you responded to my post. The boards is kind of like Ascension, there are a passionate base of people on here who love the game and discussion about the game, but also like Ascension, it doesn’t receive the love and care that other places get and then it’s viewed negatively by the people who should be caring for it. This is pretty simple. We know you’re “here” our concern is that the number of posts with legitimate, well-researched, and politely worded questions and concerns (particularly about balance) are ignored and never acknowledged (maybe they’re seen). I, like you, want the boards to be a vibrant, lively place and not just a cesspool of criticism but Riot has to do things that actively invite people to the boards I.e.(announce in client that you’re having a Syria’s AMA, consistently acknowledge posts that aren’t specifically there to praise your skin team for another Sailor Moon Lux,Ahri,Soraka skin, do more frequent and well moderated AMAs with other sections of Riot team members)
> but also like Ascension, it doesn’t receive the love and care that other places get and then it’s viewed negatively by the people who should be caring for it. Yeah, that's fair. I don't think we've done a great job communicating our intentions / expectations / plans / whatever when it comes to Boards (there was more a while back, but as someone else commented below, the follow-up from the initial launch has been...lacking). >We know you’re “here” our concern is that the number of posts with legitimate, well-researched, and politely worded questions and concerns (particularly about balance) are ignored and never acknowledged (maybe they’re seen). I'll be super honest - takes a lot more sifting to find those compared to a place like Reddit, which naturally filters it to the top. I'm also aware a ton of Boards posters disagree with me on this (i.e. that Reddit upvotes the best discussions, or that Boards has as bad of a mud-to-gold ratio as I'm making it out to be). What I can say is that it's way more not seeing/finding the good ones than it is flat out ignoring them. >I, like you, want the boards to be a vibrant, lively place and not just a cesspool of criticism but Riot has to do things that actively invite people to the boards That's fair too. Will respond to each of your suggestions, but first a note and a request: we can do a lot to increase traffic, but Boards has to take a hard look at itself. I can't recall ever posting on here without at least one person posting vitriolic if not downright hateful comments (and being upvoted for it). I've got pretty thick skin so I don't take it personal, but it's exhausting to deal with, and not something I'm gonna recommend us to direct traffic to so long as that's the accepted culture. I'd love your help in fixing that. >announce in client that you’re having a Syria’s AMA We stopped doing this for both reddit and boards because the timing window is so small that it felt bad for players to show up to something that was already over. Additionally, on our end the overall impact just isn't enough (compared to other things like a gameplay trailer or esports announcement); every team at Riot shares the same space in client, so we have to make some tough calls. That being said, there's probably other ways of promoting AMA-type content we're looking into. >consistently acknowledge posts that aren’t specifically there to praise your skin team for another Sailor Moon Lux,Ahri,Soraka skin, This is mainly covered by the comment I made above re: Boards comment culture. I'd say there's a good mix of Rioters replying to suggestions, feedback, and outright criticism on reddit, but that's also because the temperament is drastically different. That doesn't excuse us ignoring Boards, tho. All I can say is that Rioters jump into these discussion of their own volition, for their own reasons. Many aren't interested in super negative criticism, and none of them have it in their job description that they're required to comment on it. My advice to anyone who wants a Riot response? You can be absolutely livid, but keep it classy and articulate and it's way more likely to get a reply. Your comment (which I wouldn't say is livid, but has some criticism), is a perfect example of how to do this well. > do more frequent and well moderated AMAs with other sections of Riot team members Long story short - we've had tons of conversations about how to maximize the impact and quality of AMA-type content. For a bunch of reasons, only some of which I've mentioned above, it's tricky. Some other reasons I didn't mention: taking time out of all those Rioters' days (remember, they gotta make the stuff too), finding a good day to do it when not too much else is going on, getting good questions, coordinating good, robust responses, and the inherent fact that even in a great AMA, 90% of commenters will not get their questions answered (unless it's a real small crowd, in which case, probably not the best use of time). I think there's something to the voting / collection method (that's the origin of Ask Riot), and I think there are some other similar formats that might be an improvement. However - there's a good chance the frequency of AMAs stays exactly the same, or even drops. Riot isn't a monolithic entity; it really depends on the team, the thing they make, how much they redpost already. Those of us that can will be around as much as possible, and I'll try to keep it real with all of you. Thanks for playing, and for posting.
: Poor Kelly and her juice cleanse
Literally just watched that episode last night lol
Squad5 (NA)
: Sometimes. Usually the designer at least _feels_ like there's a good reason for everything on the kit - at the end of the day you often see extraneous things being removed from kits later on.
Not sure why Squad5 is still listed as Associate QA Analyst - he's Sylas' designer.
: First of all how dare you
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4CHfZ4WMAAS3Uf.jpg
: RIot logic: Has a message board to interact with fans and players of their game Does an AMA on Reddit instead of on their own boards. Announces it on their boards
We're here too! Compare the number of comments on here vs reddit tho :/ And the fact that this post has more down than upvotes lol
  Comentários de Rioters
: Damnit! I'm out for the evening but will page this so I can ramble later! Nautilus is one of my favorite characters ever and I'd love to provide some input! Gimme 1-2 hours and I'll be up for some heavy rambling!
> [{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qcXpxtQA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-28T18:28:04.501+0000) > > Damnit! > I'm out for the evening but will page this so I can ramble later! > > Nautilus is one of my favorite characters ever and I'd love to provide some input! > > Gimme 1-2 hours and I'll be up for some heavy rambling! We'll be checking over the next few days, so no rush!
: Thank you so much!
another Rioter pointed me to this as well - probably not the answer you were looking for, but this is the latest we've said on the topic: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/04/ask-riot-should-new-champs-be-disabled-in-ranked/
: With Kai'Sa being released, we have run into an age old problem again. Players are banning the champion in ranked to not have to play with teammates who don't know what they are doing on her yet, and then the players who wanted to play her are trolling their teammates in revenge. **Please for the love of god, why are new releases enabled in ranked during the first week?**
Yeah, i feel you, instalock and "___ main btw" on release day is a recipe for feeding Tbh i think the answer to this is outside the scope of this AMA/team, but I'll forward your question to some other Rioters and see if we can get you an actual answer.
  Comentários de Rioters
: > Grab some bonus XP with Kai'Sa's launch mission, even if you don't own the champ: > > > Reward: 300 Blue Essence ok riot.
TIL proofreading should not be done in the middle of champ select (For the record, the reward is BE, not XP.)
Jobriq (NA)
: Blue XP
^ new currency seriously tho, reward is blue essence
: "Stranded for years in the void"
>What did you eat? Everything else.
: Is that a fucking void fidget spinner
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=a8iX7Axv,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-01T16:13:21.294+0000) > > Sup Boards - we'll be hanging around in the comments for an impromptu quasi-sorta-AMA! Hey Riot Quick Question Are you going to make anything Like Diana and Leona?
I pray to the sun every day and the moon every night that we will
: By any chance will the music used in the animation ever be released separately? The one when Annie's father is trying to get her out of the house is my absolute favorite and I'd love to have it as a single piece.
You can find all the music here: https://soundcloud.com/leagueoflegends
: Question for Annie's dad: What was the point of all them push ups if you can't even lift a bloody log?
https://i.imgur.com/vncZ8J3.gif
Lajinn5 (NA)
: Tibbers probably works more akin to a focus than anything. The magic is inside Annie, but its projected through Tibbers. Probably due to its importance to her as one of her few prized possessions
^ team tells me this is about right
: Annie was always dark. Now she’s more relatable. Zac isn’t a dark character, he just had a tragedy. People keep seeing him as Batman, but I see him as Spider-Man.
Dude you just made me see Zac in a whole new light and I love it
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=a8iX7Axv,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-01T16:13:21.294+0000) We'd do one on Boards but #thetechnologyisntthereyet Out of curiosity (since the volunteer team has been working on rolling out some cosmetic changes and minor features like the new vote highlighting), what would you need to do an AMA on the boards? Not too familiar with the format, but I'm interested in seeing what features you'd say you need to see if we could accommodate you somehow. About the only things I can see off the top of my head is that AMAs often have downvotes disabled, and require a question in an initial post. Is that really it?
Bad joke, because I'm dumb. I just now realized there's a "discussion view".... Basically just the ability to view most upvoted questions - i've always found it difficult to track replies, answer top questions, etc. in the chronological view. But now that we've established I'm just a bonobo, I take it back - we can totally do an AMA on the Boards. I guess we can consider this post an impromptu one? I'll let the team know to check here in addition to the subreddit.
: Will there be any other content released for Annie? Voice over? Splash update? Short story? Skins?
> [{quoted}](name=Xodiathe4bdn1,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=a8iX7Axv,comment-id=00080002,timestamp=2018-02-01T16:21:05.300+0000) > > Will there be any other content released for Annie? > Voice over? > Splash update? > Short story? > Skins? There's a new bio on Universe, but no color story (we figure this animation works as that). Not planning any in-game updates because we feel her splash is high quality and well-liked, her gameplay is pretty solid, and she is still a very popular champion (especially for new players) so we didn't see a lot of value in changing any of that. Her current VO was actually a contributing factor to this origin story: the team asked what Annie would have had to go through to find burning other people fun and playful, and decided there was probably some real trauma there. Which means that ANNIE: Origins really is just that - the first spark that leads Annie to develop the personality we see and know in-game.
: ANNIE
Sup Boards - we'll be hanging around in the comments for an impromptu quasi-sorta-AMA!
B0OM (NA)
: I think what DyQuill is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the motivator in Val and Kai's story is almost selfish, versus the selflessness of a father/son story. Val was unable to accept the thought of experiencing life without Kai (the sacrificial action was focused on being able to continue their heartlight relationship in life _together_), versus a father being unable to accept the thought of his son not experiencing life for himself (the sacrificial action would be focused on the son being able to continue living his life _at the expense of the father's_). Both are strong and valid motivators in different contexts, and I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that one is always stronger than the other based solely on personal experience (especially when there are plenty of examples available for both sides).
> [{quoted}](name=B0OM,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=00110000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-13T21:13:44.782+0000) > > I think what DyQuill is getting at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the motivator in Val and Kai's story is almost selfish, versus the selflessness of a father/son story. Val was unable to accept the thought of experiencing life without Kai (the sacrificial action was focused on being able to continue their heartlight relationship in life _together_), versus a father being unable to accept the thought of his son not experiencing life for himself (the sacrificial action would be focused on the son being able to continue living his life _at the expense of the father's_). Both are strong and valid motivators in different contexts, and I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that one is always stronger than the other based solely on personal experience (especially when there are plenty of examples available for both sides). Really nice way to word it, and a very interesting perspective.
Quepha (NA)
: How? DyQuill's advice to us is to randomly guess which lores are going to be rewritten with no notification from Riot and start talking about them over a year before the rewrite happens (that's how long ago they started working on this Varus lore rewrite). That's completely unrealistic and he knows it, this is honestly a terrible effort at a response.
> [{quoted}](name=Quepha,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=001100010000,timestamp=2018-01-13T18:24:16.783+0000) > > How? DyQuill's advice to us is to randomly guess which lores are going to be rewritten with no notification from Riot and start talking about them over a year before the rewrite happens (that's how long ago they started working on this Varus lore rewrite). > > That's completely unrealistic and he knows it, this is honestly a terrible effort at a response. Yeah, i worded that poorly. I left an additional comment to try to clear it up.
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-01-13T02:23:59.031+0000) > > **WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY?** I can’t answer this for you, but I hope as we continue to communicate about our decisions and update League, you’ll see what we’re saying is truthful and that we’re not here to bullshit you. Even when we disagree with one another, we’ll talk it out and keep it real. If you're not here to bullshit us, why hide some of the earlier responses including mine??
> [{quoted}](name=TerraRising,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=00110009,timestamp=2018-01-13T18:00:46.094+0000) > > If you're not here to bullshit us, why hide some of the earlier responses including mine?? I'm not sure what you mean by hiding earlier responses? I can't hide anything on the Boards, and even if I could, I wouldn't.
Quepha (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-01-13T02:23:59.031+0000) > > My best piece of advice is to be proactive, saying what you’d like to see from X champ long before we’ve locked in the story. Are you legitimately trying to troll us with this comment? It honestly makes me angry to read this.
> [{quoted}](name=Quepha,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0011000a,timestamp=2018-01-13T18:53:11.500+0000) > > Are you legitimately trying to troll us with this comment? It honestly makes me angry to read this. No, I wasn't but seeing reactions makes me think I could have worded it much better - my bad. I'm not asking you to be a mind-reader, obviously. What I meant was that it's easier to look at (and potentially incorporate) comments and theories from the community in advance of working on something than after it's mostly finished. For example, if a champ like Galio is on the update schedule and there's a bunch of community threads about what you're hoping/wishing for, that's something we can consider as we develop. Threads after the release are still great feedback, but even if we see something we hadn't thought of/really like, it's a lot more complicated to make a change at that point. (Obviously Varus wasn't on any schedule, so I get that this is mostly moot...just trying to give some insight in general/for the future). The realest answer is that video games are a weird medium where the expectation is that the audience gives feedback on the something as its being created, in real-time, with potential to revert decisions on work that they don't directly make. There's few other forms of art/creative products that function like that, and it's crazy hard to balance our own individual instincts around what will be awesome, the capabilities and plans we have as a company, and what the community (and various sub-communities) want. So the realest answer is we're gonna try our best, listen (and listen, and listen, and keep listening) to your feedback, and make changes when we think it's the right call, but that's it. I know a lot of the community (especially on Boards) wants to have way more involvement/control over that decision-making, but it's just not realistic. We already have hundreds of Rioters trying to make these calls, and I promise your views are represented, even if you're not the one in the meeting.
Cosnirak (NA)
: >Ultimately, we felt that romantic love would be a stronger motivator and bond for this particular story This really baffles me. Everything I've ever learned in life and seen others express basically screams at the top of its lungs that this is completely backwards. I sincerely doubt I know a single person who thinks romantic love is stronger than a parent's love for their children and there's not one thing in the story that would make that less true even in the particular situation given. Val and Kai could've been father/son and it would've worked just fine. I can think of other reasons to base it on romantic love that are fine. Overall my only real problem with the story is that I felt it could've easily been even better (and I mean in other ways, not this one). And yet I still can't remotely see this as the reason to make it romantic and the idea that anyone would use that as justification blows my mind. Am I horribly misunderstanding the statement?
> [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2018-01-13T02:56:34.368+0000) > > This really baffles me. Everything I've ever learned in life and seen others express basically screams at the top of its lungs that this is completely backwards. I sincerely doubt I know a single person who thinks romantic love is stronger than a parent's love for their children and there's not one thing in the story that would make that less true even in the particular situation given. Val and Kai could've been father/son and it would've worked just fine. > > I can think of other reasons to base it on romantic love that are fine. Overall my only real problem with the story is that I felt it could've easily been even better (and I mean in other ways, not this one). And yet I still can't remotely see this as the reason to make it romantic and the idea that anyone would use that as justification blows my mind. Am I horribly misunderstanding the statement? Ah totally see what you're saying, lemme clarify. When i said "stronger motivator," i meant more like "what kind of motivation is the strongest for this story," not "what's the strongest emotion there is." No doubt that familial love ranks right up there with romantic love (maybe even higher?). But when we thought about what motivation makes sense for a story where the crux is a character making an incredibly desperate, risky, and frankly dumb decision, sacrificing everything in a headstrong, hasty bid to avoid losing the person they can't possibly imagine life without, we felt like romantic love matched the particular brand of desperation we were looking for (not to mention the common idiom of "soulmate" fit perfectly with what we planned for the tripartite darkin). Ultimately it's a creative (and subjective) decision on which works best for the story, and it could have potentially gone either way.
: @Riot DyQuill Answers On Varus? What are your plans?
Hey all, back again. This is gonna be my last post in this thread, but we’re still working on more Narrative communication to come. I tried to answer questions as best I can without launching into essays for each, combining similar questions where possible but omitting loaded or entirely subjective ones (e.g. “Why the deception when the PBE story leaked” and “Do you plan to address the lore update that was uncalled for and extremely poor in it's creation”). I also didn’t pin it because this is really just following thru on a promise I made to this small group of dedicated Varus mains on Boards, and not meant to be a big announcement. That being said, feel free to link this comment if you see others bring it up who haven’t read it. Thanks for sticking with me on this wild ride - hope we deliver something that resonates with you more in the next one. **WHY DO THIS AT ALL? WHY VARUS SPECIFICALLY?** Super simply put, our philosophy is to keep evolving League - not just the game, but the story and world. In most respects (based on gameplay data + affinity and sentiment surveys), Varus was middling (check out 3m20s mark of the /dev video: https://youtu.be/KnI4es0Bv8I?t=3m20s). If we did our job right, players will now feel a lot more strongly about Varus either way - love or hate - and far less will find him just “ok.” I’ll note that it’s totally conceivable to have done this story with a completely new champ; however, our plan is generally to update older champs like Varus regardless, and we thought this story could be a good fit for him. **HOW DID YOU DECIDE? WHAT IS THE PROCESS LIKE?** This is a good example of the kind of question i think is better answered holistically, about our process for all champion updates of this nature. But I’ll try to be more specific. Some of you have asked for specific arguments for and against updating Varus, which I’m not gonna replicate, because we have meetings, emails, messages, random conversations over lunch, survey data, etc. that all contribute to the “argument.” There was never a “final debate” where one side “won” and the other “lost;” in the end, the team (specifically the writing and creative leads) made a decision on what they thought - given everything i’ve just listed above - was the one to do. That being said - there was a ton of debate internally, among the core team but also Rioters in general. Virtually all the arguments that have come up on Boards and beyond came up during that process. (This next bit is more on the holistic side, and really oversimplified, but for what it’s worth…) we generally view champion updates through the lens of “pain versus gain: how many narrative and character possibilities are we gaining at the cost of losing some of the things players already love? We’re still collecting feedback and sentiment, but so far we think we achieved more gain than pain when it comes to Varus. **WHAT DID THE TEAM CONSIDER "CORE" TO VARUS' CHARACTER? **“The core of the character, to us, was the tragic loss of a loved one, the desperation that leads to a "deal with the devil," and obviously the corruption stemming from a weapon.” First answered here: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7gn1yo/varus_as_we_fall_official_music_video_league_of/dql4545/ **WHY REMOVE THE FATHER ASPECT? THAT FELT CORE TO ME.** Originally answered here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/z1dTsaQ6-so-lore-update-means-throwing-away-champions?comment=000000000002001c0000000100000000000000010001 But yeah, we agree this is fair feedback. Ultimately, we felt that romantic love would be a stronger motivator and bond for this particular story - see the next answer. **DID YOU TALK TO VARUS PLAYERS ABOUT THIS?** We have ongoing surveys that ask about favorite champions, as well as “Player Labs” where we invite mains of champs (among many other participants) to give us feedback on work in progress. For Varus specifically, we looked at existing data for sentiment on his backstory and affinity for his character. Every champion has diehard mains, either of that champ’s gameplay or story or both. We’re fully aware that changing champs always runs the risk of leaving those mains feeling betrayed, and so we apply the “pain versus gain” framework I mentioned above in addition to trying to capture as much of their “core” character aspects as possible - but while still trying to push the bar creatively. There’s a ton (and I mean a ton) of work behind the scenes that goes along with making decisions like this. This article on naming a champ (https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/12/naming-new-champions/) gives a good peek behind the scenes. You may not see the surveys, or the conversations, or the “arguments,” but trust me, they happen. **WHY MAKE VAL AND KAI GAY? WAS THIS A PR STUNT OR MOTIVATED BY SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE STORY ITSELF?** Val and Kai and their relationship was 100% a product of creative story decisions, and nothing more. The /dev video goes into some more detail at 5m11s mark (https://youtu.be/KnI4es0Bv8I?t=5m11s), but essentially we knew that for this story, they would need to have a super strong bond that would both bring them to desperation and then allow them to overcome the darkin presence; they would need to be partners on the battlefield and in life. While that suggested to us romantic love, rather than familial, the particular genders wouldn’t change anything about their heartlight relationship. So from there, the first draft of the script was written, and featured two warriors named Val and Kai. Simple as that. **WHY DOES YOUR COMMUNICATION SUCK? WHAT WILL YOU DO NEXT TIME THERE'S BACKLASH LIKE THIS?**We’d like to think we suck a lot less now, but there’s always room for improvement. You can expect more Nexus articles and /dev diary videos (which have some of the best reach versus cost-to-make ratios), and the usual smattering of comments on forums like reddit and Boards. If you have other ideas of things you’d like to see, like a podcast or more regular blog, let us know so we can point to your comment and say “LET US GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT.” As for handling backlash - we’ll keep listening and communicating, and take action based on those two-way conversations. But it always starts with the conversations. **HOW DO WE COMMUNICATE OUR PLEASURE/DISPLEASURE WITH YOUR DECISIONS?** Honestly, the way you’re doing it now is fine. I think what this question really is getting at is, how do we have more of an impact on the things Riot does? Which is a fair question as well. My best piece of advice is to be proactive, saying what you’d like to see from X champ long before we’ve locked in the story. Feedback after the fact is still helpful and super encouraged, but we’ve likely made our final decision already, and it's more likely to inform our next decision than the current one - whereas proactive feedback about what you'd like to see can be taken into account during the actual development cycle. Obviously there are cases where we revert those changes, but it takes a ton of strong, accurate, and consistently negative feedback for that to happen. **DO YOU INTEND TO CHANGE/REVERT THE LORE? WHAT WOULD IT TAKE?** I know this isn't the answer this group wants, but no, we don’t. There’s no magic formula that has to happen or threshold that has to be reached for decisions to be changed, but as mentioned above, we’d have to see some major negative backlash before totally reverting a decision that’s been in motion for some time. **AT THE END OF THE DAY - DO YOU GET WHY WE'RE STILL FRUSTRATED AND ASKING YOU ALL THESE QUESTIONS?** Yeah, we totally get it. Wouldn’t still be talking if we didn’t. **WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY?** I can’t answer this for you, but I hope as we continue to communicate about our decisions and update League, you’ll see what we’re saying is truthful and that we’re not here to bullshit you. Even when we disagree with one another, we’ll talk it out and keep it real.
SMDB (EUW)
: League Displays is AWESOME !!!
Will pass it along to the team!
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2017-12-12T22:16:01.586+0000) > > Also, I'm here with a minor update: we're leaning towards addressing narrative updates to champions more holistically (so not just Varus) and covering some upcoming stuff as well. Hopefully give you all a framework for how we're thinking so you can give us feedback on that. So... Is this "update" coming before or after the holidays? Or is it coming at all? I would also like to know if the actual Varus team will actually respond to their critics or are they arrogantly convinced that we're just a bunch of bigots and not worth their time.
> [{quoted}](name=TerraRising,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=000d000000000003,timestamp=2017-12-18T19:59:13.803+0000) > > So... > > Is this "update" coming before or after the holidays? Or is it coming at all? > > I would also like to know if the actual Varus team will actually respond to their critics or are they arrogantly convinced that we're just a bunch of bigots and not worth their time. Update will come after holidays, hopefully in tandem with some other narrative stuff. "Actual Varus team" was a lot more than just Narrative, and they've answered questions as they've come up. As for the members of the team involved with the narrative (e.g. DinoPawz) or communicating about it (e.g. me), I'm doing my best to respond. See previous comment tho - replying individually, pages deep in a weeks-old thread with 14 upvotes, is far from the ideal method of discussing this stuff, so that's why you've got only me in here.
IDarkIFire (EUNE)
: I believe that "hollistically" is exactly what should Not be done, when the fact is there are Specific points of ctiticism that have never gotten ANY responce from anyone involved in the Varus re-writing. If you are going to adress narratives as an overview and as a whole you will not avoid future Varus cases at all. There is a huge difference between - "well as a whole the champion is still in the game", and - "he's just not the same champion anymore" when it comes to expressing the bare facts. As you've put it it feels like you will stay away from anything specific that might be criticised and keep it "hollistic" - "yeah all in all we did a great job, who cares about points 1 to 20 from the specifics" I completely agree with what TerraRising has posted. The things that are getting replies are only of positive nature. Is speaking your mind about something you think is poor craftsmanship, judgement etc. suddenly above the Varus lore development team or what? Do they not concern themselves with the worries of mere mortals now ? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} EDIT: Also rather convenient - pushing this change out before the longest holidays in the World, then going on vacation (as TerraRising also said). This only goes to show that they were fully expecting the shitstorm after announcing the change and picked a convenient timing where they can go hide, seems a rather lucky coincidence. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=LiubenX,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=000d000000000001,timestamp=2017-12-13T12:18:40.878+0000) > > I believe that "hollistically" is exactly what should Not be done, when the fact is there are Specific points of ctiticism that have never gotten ANY responce from anyone involved in the Varus re-writing. If you are going to adress narratives as an overview and as a whole you will not avoid future Varus cases at all. There is a huge difference between - "well as a whole the champion is still in the game", and - "he's just not the same champion anymore" when it comes to expressing the bare facts. As you've put it it feels like you will stay away from anything specific that might be criticised and keep it "hollistic" - "yeah all in all we did a great job, who cares about points 1 to 20 from the specifics" > > I completely agree with what TerraRising has posted. The things that are getting replies are only of positive nature. Is speaking your mind about something you think is poor craftsmanship, judgement etc. suddenly above the Varus lore development team or what? Do they not concern themselves with the worries of mere mortals now ? > {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} > > EDIT: Also rather convenient - pushing this change out before the longest holidays in the World, then going on vacation (as TerraRising also said). This only goes to show that they were fully expecting the shitstorm after announcing the change and picked a convenient timing where they can go hide, seems a rather lucky coincidence. > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} We're still planning to give you all a broader Narrative update, but I get that some of you (including Jacc, TerraRising, etc.) feel we haven't answered the "1 to 20 from the specifics." How's this: **if you hit me with a list of specifics you think we have not answered** (and I'm stressing "have not answered," not "answered but I disagree and want to talk about it more because your answer sucks," because we'll be here all winter if we go down that road), **I'll do my best to answer them all when I come back from the holiday. ** I also want to stress that this - continuing to go back and forth with individual players on the same topic over multiple weeks - isn't a great solution for talking about major changes and the philosophy behind them. I'm doing this specifically because posters in this thread have written a ton about Varus and clearly care super deeply about the changes, and to set expectations, we won't be doing this with every narrative update (we'll still jump into comments, but not for this prolonged of a period or with this much 1-to-1 conversation).
Tendrian (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=000800050000,timestamp=2017-12-07T18:46:30.449+0000) > > Yeah, i totally get that it sounds like an excuse. Honest truth is that we just haven't decided how to do an update yet (to give you a little more insight - should we just talk about Varus? Or do something more broad, covering multiple champs that have had/will have their backstories change? While I mostly care about Varus, it would sure be nice to get a general statement about the direction/vision of the lore team. Will future rewrites be more conservative/mindful of existing backstory, or can we expect more of what is basically just replacing the old characters with new ones? I believe for a decent number of people, at least here on the boards, it depends on the answer to that question if they have any interest of engaging with the new stuff that's about to come.
> [{quoted}](name=Tendrian,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0008000500000003,timestamp=2017-12-08T00:54:54.630+0000) > > While I mostly care about Varus, it would sure be nice to get a general statement about the direction/vision of the lore team. Will future rewrites be more conservative/mindful of existing backstory, or can we expect more of what is basically just replacing the old characters with new ones? I believe for a decent number of people, at least here on the boards, it depends on the answer to that question if they have any interest of engaging with the new stuff that's about to come. Yeah, these are some really good questions, and I'll be bringing it up with the broader team involved with Narrative. Good call out!
MysterQ (NA)
: Asking for a response is apparently harassment.
> [{quoted}](name=MysterQ,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2017-12-10T07:56:57.957+0000) > > Asking for a response is apparently harassment. Nah, that's totally fine. Stalking social media, spamming DMs, implying or "jokingly" threatening Rioters - that's harassment territory (super glad this has been minimal for Varus, at least in my experience). Also, I'm here with a minor update: we're leaning towards addressing narrative updates to champions more holistically (so not just Varus) and covering some upcoming stuff as well. Hopefully give you all a framework for how we're thinking so you can give us feedback on that. And while we're definitely not all on vacation, things do slow down a bit as we go into the holidays, so heads up that we won't be constantly commenting on Boards and reddit (except those of us with an unhealthy addiction...)
Tendrian (EUW)
: There has pretty much been radio silence from Riot since the lore dropped... can we get an update about your assessment of the situation? How much negative feedback has there actually been, compared to positive? Was there a noticeable split in opinion between people actually involved with the lore and those who only casually cared about it due to the big announcement? What do you think about the situation in general?
> [{quoted}](name=Tendrian,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=00080004,timestamp=2017-12-06T02:46:21.458+0000) > > There has pretty much been radio silence from Riot since the lore dropped... can we get an update about your assessment of the situation? How much negative feedback has there actually been, compared to positive? Was there a noticeable split in opinion between people actually involved with the lore and those who only casually cared about it due to the big announcement? What do you think about the situation in general? i disagree with this a little - since the new narrative dropped, we've posted comments across forums almost every day, and have definitely been reading all the threads. I can give you some answers about overall reception, but to be honest, I feel like posting that kind of update will be taken as argumentative or defensive, because it's definitely not the view Boards often seems to have. I don't want to come in here saying something that can be read as "the rest of the world is cool with it," because 1. not the point most posters here are bringing up, which is valid and doesn't become invalid because they're a minority and 2. doesn't seem like the start of a fruitful discussion. The situation in general is that the community (Boards and beyond) could probably use some more insight into how we think about champions and their stories. I'm working on that now. One thing I do want to ask about, because I think it's relevant and something you can give us insight about: what do you see as the difference between "people actually involved with the lore" and those "who only casually care?" I don't disagree there's a difference, but I want to know how you all differentiate between those groups.
: > [{quoted}](name=LiubenX,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0003000100000002,timestamp=2017-12-05T02:29:24.734+0000) > > Well i posted on r/leagueoflegends but my post got immediately removed, when i tried to repost - reported as spam. Keep in mind there was nothing offensive, and it was structured point by point with argumentation.... As for the whole boards and twitter thing - you actually need to have an ACCOUNT to be on here. On twitter anyone can post - they see homosexuality being in some context, they tell themselves "hey i want to come out as progressive - slap a like". Video is stunning, don't get me wrong, but a lot of the people that only look at the artwork are ignorant about all else in question... > EDIT: You can find said post on the boards here i reposted here in the end. I have to give credit to LoL that at least on their own boards they don't just remove posts that criticize their decisions. Sometimes on Reddit or YT I feel there is some sort of agenda. Not just Varus, but I've seen some coaches have their threads removed for "self-promotion" whereas others are left up...
> [{quoted}](name=TresArboles,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=00030001000000020000,timestamp=2017-12-05T14:54:58.434+0000) > > I have to give credit to LoL that at least on their own boards they don't just remove posts that criticize their decisions. > Sometimes on Reddit or YT I feel there is some sort of agenda. Not just Varus, but I've seen some coaches have their threads removed for "self-promotion" whereas others are left up... Just in case this wasn't clear - Riot/Rioters have no power to remove posts on reddit. That community has its own rules, and often the posts from Boards players that get removed break the rules they have there. YouTube we moderate to a degree, because we're not just gonna let slurs fly left and right. But as long as comments avoid flat-out shitty language, we let ad homs and all sorts of critical shit thru.
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-12-06T00:47:12.770+0000) > > Yo sorry I didn't see this until now - unfortunately Boards only notifies us if someone replies to a comment, not if they just mention a red name. > > I've been talking with Rioters not just on the team behind Varus, but Narrative in general, and while I promise this is not the last you'll hear from us, I don't know what the next time looks like yet (i.e. Nexus post, more comments on Boards/reddit, etc.) > > Feel free to keep hitting us up here for now. Thank you for coming But im sorry it sounds like the excuse of "we are talking internally and will get back to you soon" then never hear of it again. Then when enough people make enough noise we get the trade marked excuse of "Oh its been pushed to the back burner while we focus and allocate our resources somewhere else" It's a classic deflection and hoping that we "just let go and forget about it."
> [{quoted}](name=CanadianGuyEh,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=00080005,timestamp=2017-12-06T16:14:13.923+0000) > > Thank you for coming > > But im sorry it sounds like the excuse of "we are talking internally and will get back to you soon" then never hear of it again. Then when enough people make enough noise we get the trade marked excuse of "Oh its been pushed to the back burner while we focus and allocate our resources somewhere else" It's a classic deflection and hoping that we "just let go and forget about it." Yeah, i totally get that it sounds like an excuse. Honest truth is that we just haven't decided how to do an update yet (to give you a little more insight - should we just talk about Varus? Or do something more broad, covering multiple champs that have had/will have their backstories change?). Remember that there isn't just a "Varus team" with that as their only job - we're doing a bunch of stuff simultaneously, but there hasn't been a day since the new narrative launched that we haven't talked about it in some capacity. Like I've said before, hold us accountable and feel free to keep bugging me about it. Won't ghost you or the rest of the community.
: @Riot DyQuill Answers On Varus? What are your plans?
Yo sorry I didn't see this until now - unfortunately Boards only notifies us if someone replies to a comment, not if they just mention a red name. I've been talking with Rioters not just on the team behind Varus, but Narrative in general, and while I promise this is not the last you'll hear from us, I don't know what the next time looks like yet (i.e. Nexus post, more comments on Boards/reddit, etc.) Feel free to keep hitting us up here for now.
: I don’t think he’s coming, mate. Now I hope to be proven wrong. But you’re asking an author to spoil their own story. They’re not going to do it. What’s more, since the start of the Great Varus Fiasco of 2017 was when information about the lore change leaked too early. I guarantee at least one person at Riot is going to blame that for the fan reaction, and shut down further potential story explanations. Instead of just admitting what they did was needlessly devisive.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-04T23:24:45.692+0000) > > I don’t think he’s coming, mate. Now I hope to be proven wrong. But you’re asking an author to spoil their own story. They’re not going to do it. https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BlondWelloffInsect-size_restricted.gif Also just so there's no mix-up, u/DinoPawz was the narrative writer for Varus: Retribution, I'm just trying to help answer some questions
DyQuill (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=000000000002000400000001000200010000000200000002,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:26:07.854+0000) > > So who does this actually appeal to? Because from what I've seen the reaction to this change has been overwhelmingly negative. There was actually no reason to make this change, it's just change for the sake of change and all that ever accomplishes is pissing off people who liked the old way better. > > As for the diversity point, you could change 70% of League's champions to be gay and it wouldn't impact their story at all. So why Varus, one of the very few champions who's sexuality was interwoven into his original story? It feels forced, heavy handed and flat out wrong. Boards has been pretty negative, so I get where you're seeing that. Reddit on the other hand has been less so. And on Twitter, we got a ton of positive support. But even within those, there are differences - some positive comments on Boards, and some negative ones on Twitter, and so on. The channel/forum is ultimately irrelevant. It's about players overall, and we've seen players all over have every reaction, from super pissed to overjoyed. We're still sorting through it and getting a sense of how we did, but I'm pretty confident that this "actually appeals" to a good amount of players. I guess what I'm saying is - echo chambers are real (not just Boards, but reddit and Twitter and everywhere), and there are more than a few players that are excited about these changes, just as there's a good number here that are very much the opposite.
> [{quoted}](name=JacctheInsomniac,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=00000000000200040000000100020001000000020000000200000015,timestamp=2017-12-01T21:39:50.103+0000) > > Being conscious of the fact that you are swamped and this likely won't be responded to, I need to chart out my thoughts, and hopefully they'll be addressed in whatever form you next decide to address Varus. > > How do you weigh making players hate the character they loved, versus making other players respond somewhat positively to the character they didn't care about? > > I've been trying to talk with friends about it, if only to vent. Resoundingly all I've received is, "Varus was boring anyway." > > I can't even convince them how untrue that statement is because it's reiterated in every blog post and video you guys make. > > I have a friend who simply won't engage with me about this topic on any meaningful level because in her eyes, I'm somehow mad that they made him gay. > > I feel like I can't criticize Varus anymore, especially not among my friends because it gets tangled up in the LGBT conversation, which I don't find remotely relevant, but has managed to bleed its way into every conversation regardless. It's the focus of that damned Rolling Stones article which has once again said nothing but, "Old Varus is bad, new Varus is better." > > How am I supposed to believe that you cared in the first place when the only statements I see being made regarding the old lore are of disdain and belittlement? Definitely swamped, responding where we can, and still reading all your posts. Just know that not replying =/= ignoring - sometimes we need to just listen instead of making our own statements.
patmax17 (EUW)
: If I could choose, I'd like a Nexus article, I think those have the best format and are easy to find (the only problem with nexus is that interacting in the comment section is difficult since there are no notifications or red tracker). But nexus articles get translated to all languages, and that's probably not necessary for the post about varus' lore? (Ideally I'm thinking of a mix between what you said in the video, a direct response, and a "champion insight" article: where did you start from? how long did it take? how did you analyze the previous lore? why did you make the changes you made, and not others? what other alternatives were considered? what are the advantages of the new lore vs the old? what is the think you will miss most of the old lore?)
> [{quoted}](name=patmax17,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1fBLUb9W,comment-id=00180002000000020000000000000000000000000004,timestamp=2017-12-02T09:20:55.857+0000) > > If I could choose, I'd like a Nexus article, I think those have the best format and are easy to find (the only problem with nexus is that interacting in the comment section is difficult since there are no notifications or red tracker). But nexus articles get translated to all languages, and that's probably not necessary for the post about varus' lore? > > (Ideally I'm thinking of a mix between what you said in the video, a direct response, and a "champion insight" article: where did you start from? how long did it take? how did you analyze the previous lore? why did you make the changes you made, and not others? what other alternatives were considered? what are the advantages of the new lore vs the old? what is the think you will miss most of the old lore?) Cool, we've been talking about some options today on what we might do. Conversation still seems to be going strong here tho, and don't want to sidestep that, so for now going to continue to monitor Boards and beyond.
: I know you're getting downvoted into oblivion, but I just wanted to thank you for that comment. I know it sounds like a stupid couples therapy cliche, but it really helps to feel heard. Varus used to be one of my favourite stories in league, it was a genuinely tragic story, and since I saw the changes I've been absolutely heartbroken at the loss of a character that I really connected with. It really feels like Riot just doesn't want people to become invested in anything of the story because they intend on scraping it in a few years. I mean, I'm a bit soured since Karma, but Varus was always a character that conveyed a sort of raw emotion to me that few other champions really portray, I've listened to Mortal Reminder over and over, I get chills every time he says "Beware a man with nothing to lose", and now that's all gone. As an openly gay man, I can have to say I connected with old Varus much more strongly than the new one. That said I have largely been under the impression that Riot just didn't care up until reading this, so again, thank you for that concession. It really means a lot to me.
> [{quoted}](name=Silatuyok,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=000000000002000400000001000200010000000d,timestamp=2017-12-04T17:56:38.196+0000) > > I know you're getting downvoted into oblivion, but I just wanted to thank you for that comment. I know it sounds like a stupid couples therapy cliche, but it really helps to feel heard. > > Varus used to be one of my favourite stories in league, it was a genuinely tragic story, and since I saw the changes I've been absolutely heartbroken at the loss of a character that I really connected with. It really feels like Riot just doesn't want people to become invested in anything of the story because they intend on scraping it in a few years. I mean, I'm a bit soured since Karma, but Varus was always a character that conveyed a sort of raw emotion to me that few other champions really portray, I've listened to Mortal Reminder over and over, I get chills every time he says "Beware a man with nothing to lose", and now that's all gone. As an openly gay man, I can have to say I connected with old Varus much more strongly than the new one. > > That said I have largely been under the impression that Riot just didn't care up until reading this, so again, thank you for that concession. It really means a lot to me. Glad to hear it. And this may sound like another therapy cliche, but: everyone deserves to be heard.
Siachi (NA)
: > We are reading through literally all of your comments, and we'll reply where we can, but I really want to stress this - you're all going to have different feelings about this, and we're ok with that. I was going try and start a discussion about Varus' new lore. But I just want to put this out there, and hope the lore team sees this. I don't need a response, or a discussion, or an answer... I just... want some assurance that I'm not just shouting at the wind here. **I'm begging you**, if you really are reading _every_ comment, Lore Team: Please, just play it safe with the old characters. I know you want your characters to be big and important to the world or Runeterra, and you want them to stand out. But.... There's people who are still attached to the smaller characters, some who've even connected with them on a personal level, despite how old their stories are. No one should have to squint their eyes just to see a slight trace of the character they connected with. Not every champion has to have big, bombastic larger-than-life, world-changing stories. You can still have your scrappy underdogs that just want to prove their worth, and defenders that just want their loved ones to be safe. As generic or tired as the stories may be, people can still relate to these characters regardless: but I'm genuinely afraid that we're losing them with the lore rewrites. Sure, the updated characters might be fun to read about and play... but they're turning into these fantastical superbeings that you can't really relate with. Sure, you can't exactly make a champion about a regular guy who works a 9 to 5 job, but I just don't see anything I could relate to with the new Varus, because the situation is too fantastic. Even the conflict of "Valmar has to leave Kai behind for the sake of his duties" is dropped and moot as soon as Noxus invades. I just don't want to risk getting involved with lore anymore, because I'm genuinely afraid you'll decide things like: 'Rumble being the scrappy underdog is too cliche, and he'd be cooler and better off being an Ionian Fire Deity or something.' --- Please respond to this, Lore team. I don't need an discussion, I don't need to know if you agree or disagree with me, or even if you care about what I've said. Just getting "We read this", and nothing else would be wonderful. I don't want to be screaming into the wind over something that I care about.
> [{quoted}](name=Siachi,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=000000000002000400000001000200010000000c,timestamp=2017-12-04T03:39:34.320+0000) > > I was going try and start a discussion about Varus' new lore. But I just want to put this out there, and hope the lore team sees this. I don't need a response, or a discussion, or an answer... I just... want some assurance that I'm not just shouting at the wind here. > > **I'm begging you**, if you really are reading _every_ comment, Lore Team: Please, just play it safe with the old characters. I know you want your characters to be big and important to the world or Runeterra, and you want them to stand out. But.... There's people who are still attached to the smaller characters, some who've even connected with them on a personal level, despite how old their stories are. No one should have to squint their eyes just to see a slight trace of the character they connected with. > > Not every champion has to have big, bombastic larger-than-life, world-changing stories. You can still have your scrappy underdogs that just want to prove their worth, and defenders that just want their loved ones to be safe. As generic or tired as the stories may be, people can still relate to these characters regardless: but I'm genuinely afraid that we're losing them with the lore rewrites. > > Sure, the updated characters might be fun to read about and play... but they're turning into these fantastical superbeings that you can't really relate with. Sure, you can't exactly make a champion about a regular guy who works a 9 to 5 job, but I just don't see anything I could relate to with the new Varus, because the situation is to fantastic. Even the conflict of "Valmar has to leave Kai behind for the sake of his duties" is dropped and moot as soon as Noxus invades. > > I just don't want to risk getting involved with lore anymore, because I'm genuinely afraid you'll decide things like: 'Rumble being the scrappy underdog is too cliche, and he'd be cooler and better off being an Ionian Fire Deity or something.' > --- > > Please respond to this, Lore team. I don't need an discussion, I don't need to know if you agree or disagree with me, or even if you care about what I've said. Just getting "We read this", and nothing else would be wonderful. I don't want to be screaming into the wind over something that I care about. We read this, and you're never screaming into the wind. Good feedback, by the way - this has come up in our internal discussions before, but it's always helpful to have reminders from the community.
: > [{quoted}](name=DyQuill,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1fBLUb9W,comment-id=00180002000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T19:58:41.954+0000) > > There's a metric fuckton of questions to be answered, but we're still reading and replying. > > I'd like to do a broader update, because I don't think individual replies we give here get a ton of visibility (and sometimes aren't directly addressing the underlying concern), but I want to make sure we really understand all the criticism first, because there's a lot of it and it's coming fast and furious right now. Ah, gonna do an "Ask Riot?"
> [{quoted}](name=TerraRising,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1fBLUb9W,comment-id=001800020000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T23:29:33.649+0000) > > Ah, gonna do an "Ask Riot?" Definitely one option, was also considering a fresh thread on here consolidating the criticism and concerns from all over. Would you prefer an Ask Riot to more conversations here? Curious what's the preferred method for us to communicate with ya.
Kobold (NA)
: Seems like none of these questions will get answered but with the feedback that I see on the boards I have requested an update.
> [{quoted}](name=Kobold,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1fBLUb9W,comment-id=0018000200000002000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T05:35:21.422+0000) > > Seems like none of these questions will get answered but with the feedback that I see on the boards I have requested an update. There's a metric fuckton of questions to be answered, but we're still reading and replying. I'd like to do a broader update, because I don't think individual replies we give here get a ton of visibility (and sometimes aren't directly addressing the underlying concern), but I want to make sure we really understand all the criticism first, because there's a lot of it and it's coming fast and furious right now.
LankPants (OCE)
: >But there are so, so many of you. So many that we have a responsibility to, and for so many things: to keep the game and lore interesting. To stay true to what you love about it, while evolving and updating it. To build a world millions can lose themselves in, but still find a corner of it that speaks to them - specifically them. So who does this actually appeal to? Because from what I've seen the reaction to this change has been overwhelmingly negative. There was actually no reason to make this change, it's just change for the sake of change and all that ever accomplishes is pissing off people who liked the old way better. As for the diversity point, you could change 70% of League's champions to be gay and it wouldn't impact their story at all. So why Varus, one of the very few champions who's sexuality was interwoven into his original story? It feels forced, heavy handed and flat out wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=000000000002000400000001000200010000000200000002,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:26:07.854+0000) > > So who does this actually appeal to? Because from what I've seen the reaction to this change has been overwhelmingly negative. There was actually no reason to make this change, it's just change for the sake of change and all that ever accomplishes is pissing off people who liked the old way better. > > As for the diversity point, you could change 70% of League's champions to be gay and it wouldn't impact their story at all. So why Varus, one of the very few champions who's sexuality was interwoven into his original story? It feels forced, heavy handed and flat out wrong. Boards has been pretty negative, so I get where you're seeing that. Reddit on the other hand has been less so. And on Twitter, we got a ton of positive support. But even within those, there are differences - some positive comments on Boards, and some negative ones on Twitter, and so on. The channel/forum is ultimately irrelevant. It's about players overall, and we've seen players all over have every reaction, from super pissed to overjoyed. We're still sorting through it and getting a sense of how we did, but I'm pretty confident that this "actually appeals" to a good amount of players. I guess what I'm saying is - echo chambers are real (not just Boards, but reddit and Twitter and everywhere), and there are more than a few players that are excited about these changes, just as there's a good number here that are very much the opposite.
Vier (OCE)
: I feel like Varus being a parent was a huge part of what shaped him to be what he was. You can't just take away defining characteristics and expect people to love the new version of that certain character. Varus is probably the worst offender but it has also happened to champions like Galio (always joking around, we never get serious characters anymore? Or at least no serious VO) and Lux where you removed the "Spellthief" part of her being able to copy spells from other mages. Also want to mention Lux's new voice was a downgrade (yes there was more lines but quality>quantity) where they show very little of her struggle of being a mage in a society where they are not accepted and instead sounds like she is saying something Lulu or Zoe would say.
> [{quoted}](name=Vier,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=000000000002001c000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:19:14.238+0000) > > I feel like Varus being a parent was a huge part of what shaped him to be what he was. You can't just take away defining characteristics and expect people to love the new version of that certain character. Varus is probably the worst offender but it has also happened to champions like Galio (always joking around, we never get serious characters anymore? Or at least no serious VO) and Lux where you removed the "Spellthief" part of her being able to copy spells from other mages. Yup, literally had this convo with DinoPawz where we both agreed - Varus no longer being a parent is a totally fair and understandable criticism. There was a deliberate choice to go a different route, and I'm hoping we get some more time to dive into that specific one in more detail (gotta call it a day at some point tonight tho).
: Yeah, I should probably stop getting argumentative over literally everything you write. My bad.
> [{quoted}](name=Hellioning,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=000000000002001c000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T03:07:16.748+0000) > > Yeah, I should probably stop getting argumentative over literally everything you write. My bad. All good, dude. You should hear me ranting over here when we make a change to a champ that I don't like. I just want to give you + everyone a glimpse inside our heads, I'm not coming at you all trying to convince you that we have it all figured out.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=JacctheInsomniac,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=0000000000020004000000010002000100000002,timestamp=2017-12-01T02:59:25.231+0000) > > Actually, you _are _ going to tell us we're wrong. That's what you've done by erasing his lore. You've told us that what we loved about Varus is wrong, and what you decided was more important is right. > > Of course you're ok with us having "different feelings." It's easy to be okay with us having "different feelings," because ultimately you reign supreme no matter what we say or do. Jacc, I'm gonna be real with you. I read your essay, and i can feel your frustration, your outright anger. I get that for you, we basically killed your champ. Erased the thing you loved like it was nothing, just because we could. That's a terrible fucking feeling, and for that specifically, I want to apologize. You're right - we do ultimately "reign supreme." That crown lies heavy, though, it really does. It keeps us up at night, and I'm not exaggerating. We feel we have a responsibility to you and every player. This is your game, your characters as much - no, more so - than it's ours. But there are so, so many of you. So many that we have a responsibility to, and for so many things: to keep the game and lore interesting. To stay true to what you love about it, while evolving and updating it. To build a world millions can lose themselves in, but still find a corner of it that speaks to them - specifically them. I want to apologize because it's clear we erased that corner of your world today. And I won't try to justify it. We did do what we thought was important. We made a decision, in full consideration of the responsibility we have to you and every player, and we stand by that decision. But that decision is one you have every right to hate.
Arakadia (NA)
: _Gets downvoted for answering question just because people are mad_.
> [{quoted}](name=Arakadia,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=z1dTsaQ6,comment-id=000000000002001c0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T02:59:29.440+0000) > > _Gets downvoted for answering question just because people are mad_. Not gonna lie, it's tough out here. Discussion on Boards can be super brutal, and not because of the criticism (that we totally want and deserve, because we are making stories with characters all of you super care about), but because when we try to give some insight, it feels like it's taken as an opening statement in a debate.
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