Xphineas (NA)
: Oh yeah, for sure, I agree. If you cast the E first, it should hit first. I hate ryze as much as the next guy, but when something isnt fair I call it out.
same interaction occurs with annie, throw the q but push W and the w uses the stun instead of the q, also the q into e for q to stun also interacts like this. Its completely intended by riot. the E is NOT a enemy centered spawn point ability and the spread isnt instant, its completely intended as his kits interactions. A lot of champions have small things like this in their kits. Annie, kassadin, malzahar(push Q then r the R hits first), fizz, morg(these are both ridiculous examples as their R are massively delayed for obvious reasons but its the same concept as ryzes EW) fiora's vitals delay on spawning preventing the RQ instant vital hit malphites q travel time, irelias delay on the stun vs her Q reset(gotta wait for the mark to hit first), even Diana has this same delay vs instant interaction.
Xphineas (NA)
: Oh yeah, for sure, I agree. If you cast the E first, it should hit first. I hate ryze as much as the next guy, but when something isnt fair I call it out.
Kassadins q into e combo does the same, the e hits first the q hits second even tho q was cast first. This is intended counterplay. His w/e wouldnt be cast time abilities if it wasnt.
Syte (NA)
: RYZE E TRAVEL SPEED
This specific interaction looks completely intended by riot as counterplay. The fact is, talon was running away from the E projectile, then he flashed BEFORE E hit adding even more distance, however, ryze had already used the W before the E hits. This is the intended counterplay to ryze. His E w combo is coded to work everytime at max range, this was well beyond his max ew range, and as such the projectile speed was not fast enough. The problem is they dont tell you the speed E travels at anywhere, so you cant know the range the E is out paced by the W. My guess is its around 800 units or so. Talon used his Flash to escape the combo, its that simple. Riot intended this. This is more a buff ryze could receive if he was weak not something inherently wrong in his kit. This occurs when the enemy travels a certain distance away from ryze during the cast/travel time, flashes dashes and blinks and insane movespeed buffs.
Dr Poro (EUW)
: If you see you're a melee vs range, ask for jungle help at the start of the game. Ranged champs are generally really easy to gank as they tend to push and are very squishy. Even a trist with a jump can easily be ganked.
: This. I don't even have to punish my laner for roaming anymore. I can just sit my ass in lane and harvest five turret platings+first turret gold and nab myself 1k gold while my laner works their ass off for one or two kills. They can come back 2/0 and I'll still fuck their assholes because I still have a 400~500 gold advantage. In addition to this, people can't play safe anymore! God forbid someone picks something immobile/that I counter mid lane, because then I'll force their asses under turret and get that 1k turret gold anyways while also denying them farm. It's almost better to just die fighting your laner rather than sitting under turret and letting your laner take three platings.
They can go bot lane and take your turret plates and first turret faster with that 2/0 ya know? But yea, you are harshly punished for not having wave clear now.
mack9112 (NA)
: The point is to keep you in lane for at least 14 minutes so everyone has an opportunity for individual skill expression through winning you lane. Turrets do more damage and are far harder to kill. Bounties systems allow for you to come back from behind if you are dieing in lane. Did you even play last season where 7 minutes in a tower was down and the winner of that lane was now in your lane ? The system does its job correctly if you are dieing in lane numerous times snowballing the lane it is your fault because you are not recognizing that after you die your play style has to adapt as you become more behind or ahead instead people will always play the lane the same regardless of two levels ahead behind or equal.
It doesn't actually do that tho, it just makes jg pressure really really strong. It just promoted roaming and ganking and death ball is what it promoted. The first turret plate is typically dropped the first jg gank. The first turret is typically dropped the first Tp play. Bounties are a gold acceleration mechanic. Early game champions are being phased out because of it for mid and mid late game champs.
Fegone (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zoeish,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wqVRhr2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-05T19:35:28.871+0000) > > your logic is flawed because if they do well they get that turret gold too. > > If anything, it makes the range of worst/best case even bigger. > > You can now fall behind 1800 gold, or get ahead 1800 gold. If we assume you win your lane and get some platings but your other laners suck you might get ahead 600 gold but enemys still can get 1200g themselves which is double of yours. It's not flawed, because I said "statistically seen". If you do well, another lane of your team doesn't. In your example, yes: you get ahead 600 and your opponents 1200 because they win 2 lanes. But that just puts at least yourself even with each other lane, so when you gank, at least you leveled the playing field. Early headstart also allows for better carry. The last thing I want is a system like in Heroes of the Storm: In that game you can do incredibly well, be ahead 10 kills in your lane, and get 2 towers down, and still it's impossible to solo carry if one person on your team is trolling. Dead weight that's un-carryable is so much more frustrating than the worst case scenario of how it is now.
You do realize if you die, you drop 1k gold for each of those already fed players right? like you just gotta hope you never ever die ever, because they never lose gold, and you getting the gold bounties from them also pushes your bounty higher and higher. It doesnt help your team, it helps the players that scale off gold the most nothing else. If there was XP bounties and such added it could be more fair, but overall its just an anti early game champion change, not an anti snowball change. Infact it promotes snowballing for the team that bounty hunts.
Zoeish (EUW)
: your logic is flawed because if they do well they get that turret gold too. If anything, it makes the range of worst/best case even bigger. You can now fall behind 1800 gold, or get ahead 1800 gold. If we assume you win your lane and get some platings but your other laners suck you might get ahead 600 gold but enemys still can get 1200g themselves which is double of yours.
unless of course you can somehow take all of top mid and bot lanes plating BY YOURSELF {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-rainbows}} SO MUCH GOOOOOOOLD
Fegone (NA)
: Unpopular opinion incoming: I actually like the way this works at the moment. I try extra hard in the beginning to get that first or 2nd kill, just so that I DO get that extra gold. Because most likely, my other lander or 3rd lane doesn't perform as well and I will have to go there / gank / carry and this will help me. Statistically seen, if you do well, one other lane on your team does bad. This helps you compensate for them.
I try to not let you get that kill, then if i succeed you lose and gg. But if i dont, you still lose because your laner wasnt tryna avoid dying {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Until the next game where its the opposite {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Bârd (NA)
: Plants were a welcome addition IMO. Blast Cones are fun to play around, Honeyfruit is nice, and Scryer Bloom is fine I guess (I'd rather have the wolf spirit tho).
More win more mechanics, laner that can hard shove? free 40% health and mana back. Laner that can hard shove? free engage around vision. Laner that can assasinate? get a kill and get out because you now have a dash and a knock back that goes over walls. Blast cones punish immobile champs far to hard, and honey fruits reward the champ that can get to it fastest way to much.
: I'm just glad {{champion:55}} is still flying under the radar with people. My bae is like the only broken champion that people have a shred of respect for.
she has a lot of counter play, when she gets ahead you only blame yourself/the feeder that let the 2 second delay assassin with no in kit cc champ rek them.
: You are exagerating quite a bit. There has been the Juggernaut rework, the introduction of Lethality and Runes Reforged. Sure, turret plating is still a mess but we are talking about Riot. It's just a little mistake compared to the average fuck-ups they are used to do. Other misdeeds include: * Removal of Dominion and incoming removal of Twisted Treeline. * ARURF. * Eternals. * The sheer existence of {{champion:157}} , {{champion:238}} , {{champion:67}} , {{champion:84}} , {{champion:39}} , {{champion:141}} , {{champion:145}} , {{champion:555}} and {{champion:142}} . * {{item:3161}} . * Jungle plants; and in general any kind of change to the jungle since Season 5. And a lot more.
Zeyphel (NA)
: No, the worst thing added to the game was the cs and kill Bounties. They basically turned the game into a coinflip joke in which all the advantage you created during 20 minutes can be erased just by killing you 2 times. Also, don't forget the Baron buff. This was made so that the losing team which spent the entire game making mistakes can win if they are lucky enough to win a team fight. Fairly Balanced... Regardless, I agree that plates give too much gold rn and the individual amount should be lowered.
Yep, and no. Baron change and bounties where designed as a comeback mechanic? problem? ___ Well putting the comeback mechanic on the most fed most impactful players head BY ITSELF reduces that players impact. So it reduced the CHANCE of a come back because the team that was ahead will always be the one that wins, whereas before the player that was most ahead and used it was the one that would win. Nowadays 5v5 teamfights where both teams trade 4 players lives for 1 kill and the other team trades 4 more for the other, just happen to be the standard. The team that scales hardest then uses that massive amount of gold. ___ Man it sucks when the support leona or thresh takes the shut down and literally ends the game for his team because they made a great pick!
Speeedy (NA)
: What if they lowered the gold to like 25 per person per plate. So if 3 people take a plate they get 25 gold each, but if one person gets it they only get 25 gold.
5 people top, 5 people bot, each team takes 1 turret each, each then transitions to the other side, then the team that scaled better wins the fight for the mid lane turret plates. 0 snowball would be replaced with absolute control. The idea would ruin professional play. but it would nerf solo que snowballing a bit as getting 5 people to do that in solo que is impossible.
: > [{quoted}](name=WarnercBbT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wqVRhr2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-05T17:31:07.631+0000) > > Then don't die and actually win lane > > You're not gonna be rewarded for playing poorly. You are if you're winning lane but losing game. If you try to help your team to unfuck your game then your laner gets to catch up by doing literally nothing. It's just a win more mechanic.
Indeed, and shutdown gold further locks that in. Even if you take 3 people with you, your worth more than those 3 together at a certain point. Its not a "comeback" mechanic its a gold acceleration mechanic that makes the game more teambased less individual skill based. Sometimes its just best to let your 4 allies die in the 4v5, and give up baron, than it is to win the 4v5 and get baron simply because pyke ulting the "FED" player is like 1.5k gold to his team. Insane power spike if its landed on the right target.
: doesn't this only apply to mirror matchups
no, it applies to matchups that dont hard favor one person(the one that would be losing in this case). If its mirrored then its mosty runes that determine the lane, you auto loss with wrong runes on even footing skill or no skill. However, if something early game jumps something built for mid game, and the early game wins, the mid game CAN come back given enough time but its highly unlikely. If something early game gets ganked, and the mid game champ wins, theres 0 chance the early game champ can play anymore.
: > [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wqVRhr2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T17:35:40.071+0000) > > 1 death should not mean you don’t get to play the game for the next 25 minutes like it currently does. If you have leaver buster for 25 minutes thats on you
Tho i agree the leavers are kinda obnoxious as there is more than 1 lane, there are 2 solos and 1 duo lane so 1 lost lane isnt the end of the game, people that up and quit because 1 person is losing? why cant they be on the enemy team every single game? man i wanna be that lucky dude that plays against 10 afks ina row :D
: > [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wqVRhr2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T17:35:40.071+0000) > > 1 death should not mean you don’t get to play the game for the next 25 minutes like it currently does. If you have leaver buster for 25 minutes thats on you
I dont think you understand. Winning lane is based on getting the plates, that is a won lane. If you dont die to your laner you still lose lane massively if you dont get the plates, and its unfeasble for a comeback to ever occur if you also lose turret. You can NEVER get the gold you lost from turret plates or first turret gold, you cant farm jg for it or out farm minions. Its like 100 minions or so early for every turret plate and the turret(cumulatively not individually). 1 gank, forces recall? instant lane loss vs anyone with demolish rune.
: Turret plating is honestly the worst thing I've ever seen added to the game next to rng scuttles
Promotes jg camps, and makes counter picks more important than ever. Playing safe means enemies get fed. Playing unsafe means enemies get fed. Great winmore mechanic, which was intended to remove the win more mechanic of rushing turrets down with lane swaps and such.
: I dont really see any prob with {{champion:23}} he has small windows of where he can attack before he gets his ult.And he has tons of counerplays.I find {{champion:157}} to be more of a pain in the ass with 2 item 100% crit and and windwall that cant stop a ton of ults from doing anything wile free dashes as long as mins are around. try playing teemo , caitlyn both can hard counter {{champion:23}} or any one with some kind of good cc hell even .Playing vs {{champion:23}} u cant just sit there and let him free farm u have to smack him when ever u can if u let him build up rage easy thin ya u are just leting him have a free lane .{{item:3123}} /{{item:3033}} or {{item:3165}} does wounders but next to no one seems to build it vs champs that can heal a lot its no wounder people find trind so hard to fight. Also after looking at your matchup u quit at lv 4 8 jg creep kills im guessing {{champion:23}} killed u once and u raged quit to make a shit post on how a champ that killed u has no counter play lol
: I dont really see any prob with {{champion:23}} he has small windows of where he can attack before he gets his ult.And he has tons of counerplays.I find {{champion:157}} to be more of a pain in the ass with 2 item 100% crit and and windwall that cant stop a ton of ults from doing anything wile free dashes as long as mins are around. try playing teemo , caitlyn both can hard counter {{champion:23}} or any one with some kind of good cc hell even .Playing vs {{champion:23}} u cant just sit there and let him free farm u have to smack him when ever u can if u let him build up rage easy thin ya u are just leting him have a free lane .{{item:3123}} /{{item:3033}} or {{item:3165}} does wounders but next to no one seems to build it vs champs that can heal a lot its no wounder people find trind so hard to fight. Also after looking at your matchup u quit at lv 4 8 jg creep kills im guessing {{champion:23}} killed u once and u raged quit to make a shit post on how a champ that killed u has no counter play lol
yas and tmere have same crit chance, tmere gets his faster tho. tmere has more base ad, more scaling attackspeed, and an ad steroid where yas reduces his ad(on crits). Yas has windwall tmere has -80(when maxed) ad and up to 60% slow for 4 seconds Yas counters skill shot mages/tanks Trynd counters yasuo style champs. Honestly i think they just made Tmere a counterpick style champ.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: Maybe he should lose his ultimate after being hit by hard cc? https://media.tenor.com/images/b6a5e629bf02c52979dc348bafc1c0c8/tenor.gif And ultimate should work as cleanse when activated... Then you would have to use it smart 💪
that would make him a counterpick and he would need to be completely busted to compensate that MASSIVE loss of power. Like 10 13 16 seconds of ult duration if 1 hard cc removes his R
: > [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ynn38dA,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-09-05T07:51:53.022+0000) > > qss, cleanse, and the 2 tenacity, if you opt to go full cc against tmere he can change his build to accomidate. Believe me, tmere is weakest when he goes the meta build of full damage. Picking someone he has to go full damage into is the best way to make him weak in lane, picking someone with cc is a bad idea he becomes nearly immune to it if he doesnt need his ult to kill someone. Your right. Problem with {{champion:23}} ? {{champion:78}} Back to base. Have a good grounding.
never gets old watching tmere go flying back to base knowing the player is as enraged as the champ :D
: You are very wrong sir.
305070 is what it leaves him at and gives full fury With his 300 point heal on his q he beats ignite every time even a near perfect one. You have to actually ignite him post ult to kill him. And if he ulted defensively the you shouldn't be able to get that, I'd he ulted offensively and died from ignite he is straight boosted for picking that terrible fight as triumph more than removes ignite
: > [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ynn38dA,comment-id=00150002,timestamp=2019-09-05T07:58:59.167+0000) > > Tryndameres ult leaves him with like 250 health, waiting 3 seconds on ignite leaves tmere with like 200 health left, and hten he waits grievous wounds off and heals like 500 or more. > Poppy is a great counter, around as good as akali. > Bard is... questionable since flash and e are on sucha low cd unlike bards ultimate. > Veigar is not a good counter at all. > Zoe dies in that 2 seconds more than half the time lack of mobility does that. > Heimer, maybe, depends on runes and jungle pressure tbh. > Anivia, its actually her passive that counters his ult, her wall is also FAR stronger than her q vs him since it shoves him back and her forward. > She can get run down pretty hard tho if he flashes/cleanses her q. Ive played it several times but i was the mid laner so im not sure how hard i could rek him to prevent him from farming. She is really unsafe tho top lane. redo your math. his ult lasts 5 seconds. ignite lasts 5 seconds. wait 3 seconds on his ult leaves 2 seconds of ult time. so lets say he is level 6, minimum level for ult, and caster is also level 6. he is left with a minimum of 30 health. level 6 ignite does 170 total. cut that into 5ths and apply only 3/5 of it. that still 102 damage. enough to kill him. but timing is key. if you use ignite right after he uses his ult it will either do 1/5 the damage or none at all. even at max level it still works. max level ult is 5 seconds leaving 70 health. max ignite does 410. 3/5 of that is 246. still enough to kill. only way he can survive it is if he has an ass and a half load of life steal since ignite also applies grievance wounds, cutting healing in half.
K 30 50 70 with 300 point heal as he gains full fury. If he runs away during ult he will be max fury using his q. The q heals 300 plus 150% so, ignoring baron or guinsoo so that's still 300. Grievous sounds is only 40% reduction not half. Every single time tmere lives. Every single time. Especially given his health regin is like 20% of an ignite tick by itself. Sure he can also life steal or something too. But assuming 246 ignite damage which is ignites most favorable time vs tmere, he still heals 180 through grievous sounds with 70 base health leaving him with 4 health assuming your perfect ignite no lifesteal or auto health regin or heal boosting tmere runes or anything. Tmere is weak vs things like poppy or Akali not ignite.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: Let me rephrase it: Enemy Jungler would waste time spending in a bush instead of getting Gold and XP from camps, while Kassadin can't farm all the minions, but still stay in XP Range. Enemy Mid laner would at most be ahead of Kassadin while having no real advantage over any other laners. Kass' Jungler has the possibility to also gank any other lanes and since 2 people camp 1 guy, it is essentially a 4v3 for his team. Camping someone is viable only if you do get some rewards or force them to back and lose in XP. Otherwise, you lose at least as much as the other guy in terms of XP/Gold, while also losing pressure over the map. And the major reason why I mentioned Kass as a whole is because he lacks kill pressure pre-6 and he greatly depends on it. The champions you mentioned, while definitely very powerful post-6, still have the potential to turn it in a 1 for 1 pre-6. Kass can only get a kill if he is allowed to poke with no repercussions pre-6. This makes the strategy much safer vs him.
That Is not his you play jg tho. Why sit in a bush kass full combo ignite and a turret shot early game don't kill most jgs. Why not just walk into lane and attack kassadin then walk out. For instance Horse runs too speedy like hits auto w then goes to his golemns, does red re hits top, goes skuttle plant then raptors then goes back top or mid then heads to verticle jg, and re ganks top or mid after 1 or 2 camps. This is a strong way to shut kass down if you replace all top ganks with mid ganks. ___ There are many typos in this as I'm on phone. It's bad clearly horse used his q on the auto q combo not the w unless he has blue buff. Then w is used too.
Razelth (NA)
: See I don't understand. Play norms if you're not playing in order to win. You're treating ranked as if its norms, then complaining about ranked not being an authentic way to determine an individual's skill. You've been in Gold 4 for about 3 months at this point, even though all you play is ranked. You started in B2, where I'm guessing your insanely high winrates for those artillery mages you speak of came from. Your account looks pretty hard stuck to me.
No. I play it like a competitive sport should be played. Like ranked. The problem is how allies play compared to what I pick. With naut or pyke or leona support when you go full combo your in melee range, with no follow up you can easily die or be chunked into uselessness. With lux you can full combo and never risk a thing. This is why I have a much higher winrates with the non risky type. 1 of 3 things occurs when leona uses her E 0 follow-up dead leona Terrible follow-up dead leona and ADC (ezreal eing on a cait trap and missing everything for instance.) Or good follow up and a kill. With lux it's either no follow up chunked enemy Terrible follow up chance at dead adc Or great follow up dead enemy. The meta champs that are strongest in high elo and are the best overall aren't the best to climb with because of that reason. I'd like my skill individually to mean more than my champ pick. Heck I would settle for my teammates to not straight up int and flame because they THINK I MAY do bad with my pick. Anything others MAY NOT consider hard meta for example vlad apc, tmere jg, pantheon mid, support xerath so on_ meets really really harsh backlash. Adcs literally afking on my Syndra support games at the 2 min mark and such. Hard inting top laners because of midlane kennen being on their team. The community as a whole is why ranked is a joke right now. That is what I dislike. I play ranked because I didn't want to experience the 0\50 trolls that norm has but ranked and norms are no different now. I literally won my last two lux games. And your mmr advances far quicker than you seem to think. I hold 80% winrates on 40 lux games and 61% on 51 kennen games. I just don't enjoy having to spam them nonstop.
: Wait Have you never read his ult? Legit leaves him at 1 hp XD and forces him to heal right after so igniting right before ult ends will cause him to die. He didnt say the champs counter trynd he said they counter the ult.
Ñaofumi (NA)
: This is exactly why people play mobile cancer or things that can 1v2, they have actual agency in lane and often have huge map priority as far as bot lane roams go. When your an immobile mage mid and is far behind a mobile laner / someone that got a massive tent, you just sit back and play safe while praying your team doesnt feed
why you are being down voted but the 3 dudes below you saying the same aren't is weird.
Theorex (NA)
: How they could fix jungle problems. 1: Readd Multiple Creeps on Red and Blue. That way champions like Lee Sin, Kha, Rengar, Eve, etc all have to spend more time clearing the first camp. While AoE Champions still have around the same clear time (Amumu, Mundo, Sej, Zac, etc). 2: Lower spawn timers by 20 seconds on all camps, while also lowering the XP. This way there isn't a super optimal route like there currently is; Red > Krugs > Raptors > Gank /> Scuttle > Base > Krugs > Raptors. 3: Move Krugs to Gromp, and Raptors to Krugs, and Gromp to Wolves, and Wolves to Raptors. The two highest yield XP are the furthest from each other, meaning that if a gank happens early into the game the enemy jungler is able to go counter a high XP camp away from the enemy jungler. As it stands right now, there is no incentive to take away wolves or gromp in the early game. 4: Camps spawn at 1:30 instead of 1:28, Less time for a leash. Again slowing down early jungle. That two second change is actually about 1.5 autos worth of damage gone from the ADC/Supp. 5: Scuttle. We can either remove scuttle and in turn reduce the CD timers on Warding Totems. or Make it so that scuttle now gives vision of where you kill it, while again lowering its XP. All of these combined should change speed of jungle and make laning much more tolerable. But this creates an issue in itself. The AFK farm jungle issue, because some single target champions like Master Yi will get completely shoved out of the jungle in the early game. While again champions like Sej, Skarner, Zac, Mundo, Amumu stay at the relative power levels that they are currently sitting on. But I think that there is a bigger underlying issue than simply "Jungle decides the game.". I think that the underlying issue is as follows below. A: Damage is too high. Say that Mid does get ganked, simply having to leave lane is already a big issue. You lose that get to level 6 xp that you need to fight back at level 6 or be safe at level 6. Someone like Zed can one shot you at level 6. B: Gold auto Generation is too high, being skilled and being able to farm isn't 100% needed on someone like Fizz who can click R on you and one shot you even when he has 20 CS at 6 minutes. (Which I have done at least 20+ times to fizz players, on Ryze, Malz, Kass, Cass, Syndra, Viktor, etc) He WILL have a sheen by 6 minutes, there is almost no world in which he doesn't get a sheen by 6 minutes. C: Lack of early Vision. Ward last about 50-90 seconds depending on the level you place them. Sweepers are able to be picked up at level 1. And if the enemy jungle is doing the vision trick. Which is go place a ward at second 50 in game, back get the sweeper, do camps. By the time you get to your other side of the jungle, your vision is up. That makes for some really powerful ganks. Because that vision you got early allows you to tell where the enemy jungler is, and where the enemy team may or may not have placed wards. Now this isn't to say that these would also be a perfect solution if they were fixed either. A: If Riot were to magically change direction and go away from full damage this pre-season, you can expect that about 75-80% of the changes in the last two years would be awful. Most notably Tahm Kench would be extremely useless, followed by Ryze. B: If this change goes through, some poorly designed champions such as Fizz. Would be completely useless, because they have no way to deal with poke early game. They would have 20 CS and by 90% of the way through a sheen by the time they are level 6. Gold Generation is a problem because currently it allows for sub optimal play styles. Go to lane, play super aggressive. Force both sides to back, rinse and repeat. There is no downside to doing that if you force both sides to back. Because some champions will scale harder off of levels than off of items in the early game. The only threat to them being items, such a Bramble to Mundo, etc. C: Jungle would feel useless because everyone would have everything warded making Ganks very hard unless you come with your own hard CC. But regardless of how I say that these are not perfect solutions, they aren't bad starting grounds. Any of these. Not all of them. Fix one issue at a time. Riot is currently going down the opp direction of each one of these. Because in the pro scene everything is pretty much opposite. Being 20 CS down at 10 minutes is massive in Pro Play, while in Solo Queue for 99.4% of players, 20 CS doesn't matter. Damage is high in pro play as well, but pro play also have comms to point out everything so that they can nullify damage off of vision and comms. Lack of Vision in pro play is countered by map control, where as in solo queue. There is not such thing as map control because you can never tell what is going on in your team mates heads. But this is only my 2 cents, I'm sure that riot is sitting back in there comfy little chairs drinking tea or coffee, reading this and say "Lul these are awful suggestions because they are anti-pro play."
Jg will always have the unfair advantage. Its just what unfair advantage will they have. If they are terrible(weak and frail) then the one that doesnt int pretty much always wins. If they are strong, then the one that uses it pretty much always wins. We are somewhere between, they are weak MASSIVELY when behind but rather strong when ahead, but not overbearingly strong, and almost entirely team based.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: Wasn't always midlane more prone to ganks, but it was harder to gank that generally? I mean, you can't really camp midlane, because it doesn't matter whether you are on the blue or red buff sid, midlane is always in close proximity, therefore bad lane control can be punished. Toplane getting camped is more problematic imho.
People used to have less mobility as it was tied to mid laners usaully/assasins and such. Now everything has mobility AND cc, so its really really hard to escape. Its pretty easy to get to turret on camille, but kinda hard to get to turret AGAINST camille.
Dukues (NA)
: Yo so I just checked into your mid and honestly this is what happened. The player is legit first time gold this season so maybe at max skill hit old gold 5 rank. They have 1k games played and just spamming a lot of different champs. They have the "hit new tier going to play what I want since I can't really get demoted" syndrome going on right now. Plus look they on a losing streak so they clearly titled. But instead of playing their bread and butter picks they pick {{champion:38}} who looks like they hardly play.... Then they get ganked (probably not efficient wards & knowledge of where jungler is). Dude already titled and this tilts him harder so then they play worse and get picked off more. And then just rage quit the game. Don't feel bad for them.... they fucked up by playing shit they don't know and enemy played around it well. Report them for afk and feel bad for yourself for getting matched with this "afk troll" essentially.
Yea that sounds about right tbh. I've had several first timers in ranked, they arent always bad, however, a lot of them that DO bad do REALLy REALLY bad. They also tend to afk a lot more than normal, what you say makes sense then.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: Don't get me wrong bud, but camping a Kassadin pre-6 is his biggest weakness and one of the best strats to ruin him since he has only Flash and an unreliable slow. This strat has been known for years and any Kassadin player should know that. If he played correctly, the enemy jungler would have wasted time and get behind...
Yes, along with kassadin. Meanwhile enemy mid is ahead. With jgs not being carries(at least non assasin jgs) this is a perfectly viable, and widley known counterplay to kassadin and a lot of laners like darius/illaoi and such pre 6
: Thats my point exacly, Jungler can do full clear and get out from jgl near 80 % hp and then go afk camping lane, Most camp lane by far in this is toplane and seconde is midlane and in the current meta, Once u fall behind, There's no coming back and it sucks since players are force to bascly play rng if either my jgl gank me and i win or enemy jgl camp and i lose or relie on other to carry me since im behind and my impact not existant
Ah the massive nunu ball straight across mid, either you hit the laner, or dont and keep going for the other camps. Ive watched a nunu run through mid 4 times in 2 minutes. Bonus points if you come from their raptor/wolves side as a speed horse/snowball driver.
Kovorix (EUW)
: The fun thing is when the enemy laners are allways faster in your jungle then your laners when they even move at all and then still call it better jungle wins :D But sadly you can't tell laners that as they are the majority and will just blame you. The best thing you can do is start muting everyone the frist time they look strange at you in the fountain. As your sanity is the most important thing as a jungler to make smart decisions.
That can occur around lvl 6 or lvl 3 and is totally justifiable at that exact level range, as it would result in a double death for a lot of matchups. However, a LOT of laners cause themselves FAR more grief than they should. They dont follow up roams/ganks, keep aggressing and so on THEN call better jungler as if it woulda mattered. Indeed most players in the game are toxic and honestly its sad to watch as the other 2 laners, knowing that your laner isnt just straight up inting, he is playing back and making it hard to even attempt poke much less a kill, meanwhile your laner is straight up engaging/diving the enemy thats 4/0. Its just as infuriating for laners as jgs, and you cant even roam to fix the problem half the time. Whats worse is their laner starts roaming. The mute thing is a bit extreme and might be WHY you get so many people that blame/int, but if it overall improves your gameplay to the extent it may very well be the best strategy for you. Ive noticed that if you explain, in baby terms, who the carry/win condition is, how they(the laner in question) are helping their team (lol even if they arent make something up like they are eating jg pressure or something), then explain how THAT will end up helping them, you can bring about 65% of people back from tilt. The other 35%... just wanna carry, they dont wanna be carried and pretty much are willing to run the game into the ground as fast as possible just to get a better matchup later. This goes for laners, junglers and supports tho. Mainly mid laners and jgs are usually (for me as support) the ones that "would rather int than be carried" mentality. Top laners typically are just straight up bad, and apologetic about it. Maybe its just the fact theres like 99 top lane viable champions.
: You (as a signle player) do not have adavantage but you (as a team) knowing a lane is 1v2 have a huge advantage. If a Xin ganks non stop a Syndra and the Syndra's team do not respond to this then you deserve to lose as a team. The Syndra could be a better player but he will lose because he is playing with people who don't know how to counter something like this, which is easy as fuck. When a jungler camps hard a lane all you have to do is get vision around that lane and countergank him, especially mid lane where you can get assisted by yout jungler and Top/Support. Even the allied jungler just showing around that lane will prevent the gank. You legit only need to know when he is about to gank and shove bot or top and turn it into a 3v2 in your favor if 2v2 isn't enough. What do low elo players do instead? They just flame each other because they can't do something as simple as this and they all think they are making the right calls everygame. Then proceed to post bullshit threads like this. OP came here saying he agrees with someone going afk because he got camped. Riot is not promoting "lane camp" like Op said. Camping a single lane is bad and if you can't see its weaknesses then you deserve to lose to it.
You are right in the fact that it is easy to counter, but wrong in the idea that people will do it and that its fair for the player its occuring too. If your jungler OR laner do not know how to deal with the situation (2 people need to know how to beat 1 person) then it will ALWAYS end badly for your team. If just the jg knows, then the mid feeds and flames. If just the laner knows, the jg ignores/flames/ does nothing. Thats a lot of advantage a jg has over a laner. However, i do know they give up a lot of pressure to camp as opposed to helping the easiest to help lane/closest/best. It beatable, it just takes far more skill to beat than to preform. Adds a layer of rng to the individual laner. Kinda part of the jg roll. Its why they suffer xp vs solo laners.
Razelth (NA)
: Funny how its always some hard stuck gold saying saying/implying that games are a coin flip. Its a coin flip because you do nothing to win the game. So many people play solo and have 60%+ winrates. I guess Riot just wanted their accounts to be higher than yours.
I am not hard stuck, I can easily climb out the problem is I do not like the specific champs required to do so. I maintain ridiculously high winrates on artillery mages especially things like lux and xerath, i just dont fancy them. I can deal with kennen as he isnt TOO unfun to play. The fact is, each elo has its own champ pool that is really good in a specific elo, skill or no skill because of the community as a whole in that elo. Riot doesnt balance around low tier players or even mid tier players, only the top, so things just ARENT balanced at all around gold silver. Its really easily to abuse certain strengths and weaknesses of certain champs. That being said, I am glad you seem to point out rank then have 0 argument. Rito has admitted they dont balance low elo games unless their is something seriously toxic down there. You are right so many do play solo, and carry. They typically play the same 10 champs in that elo, a few years ago it was pantheon to cllimb because he was just the solo carrys dream. Riot does what they want, its clear with the skin releases and buffs, I at no point stated that I think riot buffs their own accounts, they could, they do release new fresh high elo accounts for certain players, and can for themselves if they choose, but I dont see why they COULDNT get there, a lot of people like lux and such. _____ As for my argument, riot has clearly stated they want the game to be a team game, and have been pushing for it, and dont want solo carrying to exist as it is unfun to watch in pro-play faker couldnt even reach the semi-finals. They removed duo from higher elos because it was WAY to large an advantage, yet it is kept for low elos why? Combine this with the fact they keep pushing things like pyke ults, that give massive gold advantage, and ornn and such, and individual skill starts to matter less and less. Riot has also stated they dont balance games around low elo, so things are NOT working as intended there. People still dont buy grievous wounds vs Mundos or Vlads in games I play. ____ There is no need to be toxic. Yes you can climb, yes it can be by your skill, and that you are the most common thing in your games to determine win/losses, the problem is there is still 9 other players in the game, you make the impact on 10% of your games, 20% of your teams power, its illogical to think riot would LET a champion be strong enough, to reliably 1v5 against players actively trying to win. ___ If you have a 90% winrate over 5k games (law of large numbers style), its still possible to maintain a 50% winrate for your first 200 games. Some people just dont wanna play the many games it requires for skill to ultimately determine their elo/lp instead of rng.
: {{champion:23}} *uses ult* {{champion:78}} *counters with own ult and knocks away* any champion uses {{summoner:14}} after waiting 3 seconds* {{champion:432}} *ults as well* {{champion:45}} *uses E* {{champion:142}} *uses E* {{champion:74}} *uses E* {{champion:34}} *uses Q* may i go on?
Tryndameres ult leaves him with like 250 health, waiting 3 seconds on ignite leaves tmere with like 200 health left, and hten he waits grievous wounds off and heals like 500 or more. Poppy is a great counter, around as good as akali. Bard is... questionable since flash and e are on sucha low cd unlike bards ultimate. Veigar is not a good counter at all. Zoe dies in that 2 seconds more than half the time lack of mobility does that. Heimer, maybe, depends on runes and jungle pressure tbh. Anivia, its actually her passive that counters his ult, her wall is also FAR stronger than her q vs him since it shoves him back and her forward. She can get run down pretty hard tho if he flashes/cleanses her q. Ive played it several times but i was the mid laner so im not sure how hard i could rek him to prevent him from farming. She is really unsafe tho top lane.
6KEMBE4ORBA (EUNE)
: I see you're riding the current reddit wave of complaining about trynd. --- **Of all the completely overloaded cancerous champs/reworks currently in the game, complaining in any form about Trynd specifically is laughable and borderline r%%%%%ed.**
Toxicity has many forms. Stating that one form is so much worse than another that the later shouldn't be complained about is, how you would say, illogical.
: Eh... No. He gets shit on by malphite no matter what he builds.
No not really. Trynd has several ways of beating malphite. These arent even the best counters to him.{{champion:84}} Is his hardest counter. For obvious reasons
: {{champion:25}} I pressed Q. You stand there for 3 seconds out of 5 of your ultimate duration to do nothing. Good boy.
qss, cleanse, and the 2 tenacity, if you opt to go full cc against tmere he can change his build to accomidate. Believe me, tmere is weakest when he goes the meta build of full damage. Picking someone he has to go full damage into is the best way to make him weak in lane, picking someone with cc is a bad idea he becomes nearly immune to it if he doesnt need his ult to kill someone.
: > [{quoted}](name=SirTauntsALot,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ynn38dA,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-09-04T07:19:05.685+0000) > > yes. run away and give him a tower. sounds like a plan {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Wtf are you even talking about? Tryndamere sucks at destroying towers unless he's lategame full build. Even then Nasus and Yorick shits on towers better than Tryndamere anytime
: > [{quoted}](name=jotarowo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ynn38dA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-04T07:03:35.733+0000) > > While he has a slow and an e that is longer than a flash escape isn't as easy as you say His slow can be juked like Cassiopeia ult If you're a toplaner you build {{item:3143}} which gives armor and reduces crit damage and ALSO HAS A PASSIVE THAT SLOWS DOWN ENEMIES. What else? Midlane champions are mobile enough ADC can't be killed by Tryndamere unless you're alone which you deserve to be killed, or when your support is braindead Let's not forget about CC. He's shit tier because he gets CC'd and he's just there waiting to die
You are right, you can build defense So that he can take your turret instead of your life. Problem is that makes him more of a threat as turrets give more than you do. Without turret plates/turret gold/first turret gold tryndamere wouldnt be AS big a problem. Tryndamere is capable of taking a turret plate every single minion line, if you build randuins first item and ninja tabi second just by ignoring you via his massive base health pool and healing. (bar taunters)
: I'm sorry but you never heard of a slow? Escape? hell even simply walking away is enough to stop him from chasing you. If he can't kill you in the 5 seconds of his ult he won't chase and int he'll run away.
No. Tryndamere has a base dps of 400 lvl 18 no items, and his E cd is rather low and his W is a massive and long slow(longest in game for a slow that remains same duration that is a debuff), and mobility. Its like asking someone to run away from kayn its really really hard to do. No tryndameres counterplay is actually __ 1. Junglers running him down all game every time he tries to fight pre 6. 2. A counter pick that has a tone of immunity frames such as vladimir or fizz or jax(one that builds zhonyas preffered) 3. Pray you end before he scales. 4. Pray the game lasts over 50 minutes and you have gathering storm because he wont and you default win with the 3k bonus gold.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ynn38dA,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-09-04T15:53:24.537+0000) > > So for anyone that doesn't understand why he lacks counterplay, I give you this: > So his current build (runes and items) consists of: > Lethal, Triumph, Bloodline, Last Stand, Nimbus, Transcendence, AS rune, ADAPT rune, Armor rune > {{item:3508}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3074}} {{item:3026}} with honorable mention {{item:3124}}. > He gets well over 400+ AD with the build without need of Infernal or low health. Tempo puts his AS at 2 a second basically. > > E with this build has a cooldown (Q then E max) of 4.8 seconds, reduced by 2 seconds when critting a champ. > > This means that when at full Fury (pressing R or farming a wave before engaging, not hard to do), he has 100% crit chance, which means he only needs 2 autos on enemy champions to get the spin back. Instead of a cooldown of 4-5, it has a cooldown in combat of legit, 1-2 seconds. Not even Jax with his leap has a cooldown of that. 600+ physical damage spin on a 1-2 second cooldown. Let that sink in. lemme just tell you first off that that build in itself is 17k gold, its rare for someone to get full build that easily unless no one knows how to close out a game. Second in terms of top laners, tryndamere can only beat people who are brain dead. Your post is talking about tryndamere operating at maximum efficiency. pulling everything off perfectly, and No ONE stopping him. Many times as tryndamere ive just been cc'd through the entire duration of my ult, in teamfights of course if the enemy undrestands "hey we shouldnt let this guy just stand on top of us". Generally in 1v1 scenario's you should try to fight him if he isn't behind because HE IS A DUELYST one of those people who excel in 1v1's. If you do find yourself fighting him it shouldnt be a problem to keep him at arms length because if he E's on you thats a perfect opportunity to cc him. he wont be able to auto you while cc'd and you can then ut enough distance to stay out of his auto range (its 125 the lowest in the game) If you're a ranged adc like ashe or something then you should properly know how to kite, so dodging tryndamere's slow by simply turning around isn't hard in itself. ALSO on the topic of his slow which also lowers your ad You will NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT unless you're getting to late game because Tryndamere maxes W last. and even then 85 late game is just the loss of 1 of your 6 items for 4 seconds. Tryndamere is a squishy champion to compensate for his ult. If they did something like completely gut his ult, he wouldn't even exist on the roster because he'd be such a bad champion, they'd have to give him buffs out the ass to make him worth playing instead of solo carry riven or renekton
most dont get tforce or finish ravenous hydra before end of game, so its more like 13k
jotarowo (EUNE)
: Trynda is such a stupid and op champ, in lvl 1 he can destroy u with his 25% crit and lvl 6 he literally doesn't die. His ult is rl damn long
: for the love of god delete tryndamere or rework his ultimate to where it actually has counterplay
Problem with {{champion:23}} is that he has but 1 sole job and purpose, to split push until he loses unless your team has 0 cc then he MAY taemfight squirmish. Problem is, ritos been desperately trying remove splitting and force the game to be decided by the ENTIRE team not just 1 player. Also, riot released {{champion:83}} with the SOLE PURPOSE of being the BEST at it. ___ What does riot do? they buff tmeres crit chance and e spins.(Dude reaches 50% base). He has unfair levels of sustain(fought an illaoi in lane, she recalled 6 times before I did once after I got ganked 3 times.) He has unFUN levels of base stats (highest in game, or top 10 on literally everything other than range) He has unfair levels of steroids and rune interactions. And his E W and R are suuuuper toxic. ___ HOWEVER, while tryndamere SEEMS like he should be strong, the fact is he suffers highly from all the adc changes. Ritos been tryna make adcs tankier but less damaging for almost a season now, and tryndamere wants EXACTLY the opposite of that. So ritos been buffing him every time he adcs get an item change. ___ He holds a really high winrate among high elo mains, and is almost impossible to punish, plus a massive snowballer. ___ His early game can be completley op or useless because of 35% number on his passive determining almost everything in lane, so he naturally loses 2/3s of his early games, and wins 1/3 by default so if he ever really reaches 50% winrate its probably because he is busted. Needs a full rework.
Moody P (NA)
: Why are you using your heal at all in combat?
{{champion:555}} R {{champion:6}} R {{champion:86}} R(and pretty much any percentage health execute) and a few others like {{champion:58}} 's W. There are tons of cases where the heal is stronger than the shield, and tons where the shield is better than the heal.
: I have never said a jungler should afk farm the jungle (it's not even possible since the respawn timers are so high) but having presence around the whole map and pressuring all lanes is by far more effective than camping a single lane. Camping a single lane has a lower chance at winning the game unless the enemy team is legit terrible at this game and doesn't use it as its advantage
No, just camp for the laner that beats the enemy laner thats being camped for, if you have non, thats when you lose as a good jungler. Otherwise you default win if your carry beats all the potential enemy carries.
: What is this even supposed to mean and how is this even about your whole thread? Xin isn't even good right now You legit don't have arguments and actually agree with someone going afk because his team (you included) couldn't turn to its favor a mistake that the enemy jungler is doing. Just another case of get good and useless post filled by a rant providing zero arguments. I have a low elo account where I only play mid. One of the past games a rek sai camped my lane for 10 minutes, he legit was level 5 after those 10 minutes and even died to counteganks. You just don't know how to turn that mistake to your advantage and even call it bullshit.
Bad jungler lost game you say? coincidence i think not. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
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