I really dont care anymore personally. People dont want to win anyways. Especially in normal draft where the goal is to still TRY AND WIN. Not fuck around for 30 minues seeing who can farm 40 kills first. People wont touch towers, but anyone who suggests taking towers after 35 minute matches is told "dude its norms, stop being so tryhard" No, I have a fucking life. I am trying to actually win, not sit around and let egotistical fuckheads farm 40 kills for their own little LoL scrapbook. If you arent queing to take towers, you are queing to actively throw. and I will report it as such. Dont sign onto a fucking objective game, then get mad at people who are actually fucking trying to play the OBJECTIVE while you try and turn it into just another "360 noscope bruh" TDM. I personally dont even care about my role anymore. If I am support and you are not interested in playing to win, YOU DONT DESERVE ANY SUPPORT. Thats like signing up to a baseball match and then getting mad at the people who came to play BASEBALL. NOT sit around throwing the ball back and forth to each other.

yeah I main support and I have stopped buying any support items. I have no reason to. I would rather be focused on winning my lane rather than crippling myself so my adc can feel some season 2 superiority over support. Wouldnt want support playing better than the adc, now would we?. It might bruise adcs Ego and cause them to quit the match because anyone else is playing better than them.

I hate when people use that excuse. and then they take that SAME attitude into ranked and just swap it out with "its just a game" in ranked.

Its that people dont even try to win anymore. There is a reason why I refer to people treating league like a facebook game. They think they can just sit back and the wins will just fall into their lap. They think as long as they have the most kills they dont NEED to attack towers, they will just be handed the win. And then when these people LOSE. they think its their teams fault for not having as many kills as them, NOT the fact they completely ignored the point of the game.

and yet people wont even try and win in normals. They will just sit around running after whatever "ez" kills they can so they can brag about how "trash" thier team is. Yet if someone tells them to get off thier ass and take a tower, or take an objective, suddenly it becomes "dude, chill, its norms" or "dont be tryhard, its norms. If you want to win. go play ranked" My response to that is, iF you dont actually want to play the OBJECTIVE...GET THE FUCK OFF AN OBJECTIVE BASED GAME. I dont care if its norms or not. If you are not going for towers, you are throwing. And I WILL report it as such. If you are actively ignoring the towers so you can chase 30 kills to make your kda look pretty but dismiss any suggestion of taking towers or dragons. You are greifing. The role of norms is to prepare people for ranked, And these "Casual NA" dipwads who think this is the same as their facebook game, prove they are too stupid to understand that an objective based game doesnt give a fuck about your killstreaks. Getting a Penta does not automatically take 5 shots off the tower.But they are unwilling to learn or try and win in NORMS. So why would anyone expect these braindead children to actually want to try and win in Ranked. This is why I report anyone who uses "dude, its norms" for throwing, you are not trying to win the match, just make it look pretty on the surface.

for me it seems my whole team will sit around and farm 40 kills, then act like I am the one at fault for wanting to take down the towers instead of helping them chase kills in any other lane. They could literally have an open bot lane, and rather than actually TAKE The bot lane tower, they decide its more important to run to mid/top to chase kills in THOSE lanes. then they use the excuse "we need kills to win" as an excuse to dismiss the suggestion "You have enough kills, how about taking a tower for once!" And of course the obvious response I get is "its just norms bro/Its casual bruh. dont be tryhard" People go into an objective game, ignore the objective. and then blame everyone else because an objective based game doesnt give a fuck about your precious KILLSTREAKS. But apparently I am the stupid one who "doesnt know how to play the game" and "you need kills to attack towers" and yet they never once attack towers. So that statement is bullshit.

for me its not so much the champions but that people come into an objective based game, ignore the objective for KILLS, Will not touch enemy towers. Then when they get bored of chasing kills and the enemy outscales them, they will turn around and surrender the match blaming anyone who didnt get as many kills as them. they will actively farm 30 kills, wont touch towers the entire game, then blame everyone else who has less kills than them for losing the match. If you go into an objective based game then proceed to ignore the objective. YOU LOSE. And telling you such isnt toxic, Its REALITY. but these idiots will still run around chasing kills like its a call of duty kills, then blame everyone else for losing because the enemy actually takes towers.

Basically 1-2 out of an entire wave, usually its the ones my adc is too lazy to go after. Then they turn around and claim I am "trolling" and throw a fit. I have even had games where my adc because I Q'ed as soraka (her Q being an aoe and thus have no control) and a minion was killed. thus causing my adc to throw a friggin tantrum. And no, I really dont care how big their sword needs to be. If they need it that badly they will find other methods. Personally with how pathetically narcissist and self involved this community has become (Everyone thinks they are Faker 2.0 and can 1v9 solo carry ez. They dont que for teammates, they que for their cheerleading section) I have no interest in extending any courtesy to any of the arrogant little preschoolers that make up the league community. The moment the match doesnt go their way or are forced to adapt to a changing situation, they drop to the ground and start kicking and screaming. Sorry, world doesnt revolve around these kids, and I owe them fuck all. I certainly dont owe them the COURTESY of uncontested CS. If they want it, they will just have to nut up and take it from me. Do more damage, learn to fucking last-hit. Its Not MY fault if my adc decides screaming about how much of a "troll" i am gives them free pass to "intentionally feed because of my trolling support, GG"

thats why I dont take support items and just go straight for the farm. whats the saying "whats good for the goose..." if the adc has a problem with it, let THEM get the support item, let them enjoy the meager table scraps. Maybe they will see how supports feel. till then, there is no rule saying i cant, so I will be taking bot lane minions.

Its simple, I have just started ignoring the support item and farming minions alongside my adc. There is no Rule that says I will be banned or punished for taking minions which riot themselves have stated "No one player OWNS neutral or enemy minions" And the whole "but Adc have always gotten to take all cs" THAT is a COURTESY, a quiet agreement that ceased when the adcs started seeing support players as Little more than shit on the bottom of thier shoe, something to be degraded and discarded. Its amazing how everyone states how reliant the team is on support, yet support players are always the ones thrown under the bus and threatened with "Report for inting" because they dont have as many kills as everyone else. They forget that the support role IS NOT A KILL FOCUSED ROLE. But will still flame and blame the support for going 0/2/15 and spam with "stfu, u got no kills" So yeah, that courtesy went out the window, and now that they gutted the support items, I will just start taking from the minion waves instead of the support items. Strangely enough, you can usually tell what type of adc you have based on the reaction you get from taxing waves. If your adc is focued more on winning and mature, they will generally adapt and focus on making the best of the situation. And many times If I see this, I will begin to back off the minions and let them take the lions share. OR You get the spam pinging, cursing little toddler who sees 1 less minion as "gg my trolling support" and then they proceed to throw a tantrum, cuss and flame, beg for reports, and go on about how they are going to "intentionally feed, its all supports fault" These players I have no interest in extending any courtesy to. And usually they are the type who are not interested in winning, but see the bot lane as well as the support player as little more than their personal property. So yeah, I have, am, and will continue to take farm directly from the minion waves. I will forego the support item and get my gold directly from minions instead as I refuse to build based off the the meager "table scraps" that riot expects me to work with. And maybe if the support problem becomes a problem for ADC as well, it will them out of the idea that just because its not effecting them, doesnt mean it wont effect them. (Kinda like the people who respond to issues or grievances with "well I never see it in any of my games, so you must just be making it up" response.)

But but...if they take the dragon, that means they cant camp the EASY lanes for kills. Then if the enemy takes the dragon, they cant tell you to "stfu and git gud". This is why I really stopped treating this as the "team game' everyone spouts it is. I used to believe its a team game but this community in their self-rightous narcissism has shown me otherwise. People dont care about taking objectives or WINNING the game, as long as they can run around farming thier "ez 1-shot im too pro" kills. So they can show how better they are than the "trash team" they have to carry. This is why I just do what I want. I really have given up on this community as a whole. All strategy has been removed, all teamwork is gone. For everyone its just a dick-measuring contest of who has more kills than who.

this is what the precious community has become. Its no longer about working as a team (which is why I tell people not to give me the bullshit "its a TEAM game" excuse). But rather people are only interested in how good they look solo. They come into a 5v5, treat it like a 1v1 free for all. Then wonder why the fuck they lost when the other team can beat two sticks together and come up with the solution that if you attack one person with 4, You win. Meanwhile my teams are more interested in beating thier chest over who has MORE FUCKING KILLS THAN U, therefor by their logic you have no right to speak. As if just by the sake of them having more kills than you, they are right about everything, you are wrong and you are not allowed to speak. Yeah I really cant be assed to care about anyone in this egotistical suck-egg community anymore. Nothing but overinflated egos, everyone thinks they are faker 2.0. As I said before, This community doesnt Queue up to find TEAMMATES. They Que up to find the 4+ people that will be their own personal cheerleader section, there just to tell them how "op" they are and how trash eveyrone else is. But anyone who doesnt go along with thier self-congradulatory blowjob is just being "salty" or "toxic" for saying "No, you arent as OP as you think you are just because you have 85 kills and NOT A SINGLE TOWER." I personally have no problems helping out new players. But The rest of the community can go burn in a greasefire for all I care. They are only concerned with how solo carry they look, so I really couldnt care less about the community, or the developers who push this egotistical "im too OP" bullshit. Thanks to them for destroying a wonderful strategy game in favor of "solo carry big playz"

again you keep trying to make it stick just because YOU say so. I admitted to NOTHING. And I am not greifing. Oh I do support my team when they make a play for towers, I do support my team when they try and go for dragons and such. But ME building MYSELF UP is not griefing. My goal is to win. I am not responsible for what My adc does as much as you would like to pin the blame on me. Personally its making me laugh at how hard you are trying to get me to fall in line. No, I am building myself up so i can help my team win. I am not responsible for an adc who cant build damage, cant adapt, and decides the only way to get what they want is to stop in the middle of the aisle, kicking and screaming like a toddler in a candy aisle, then inting in order to "punish" a teammate who doesnt do what they say. Again. I admit to NOTHING. Its NOT griefing to build myself up. I am not responsible for my adcs actions. Have a good night.

> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bUL7TmQP,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-25T15:49:35.333+0000) > > "I want cs because other people are mean to me." > Care to elaborate on that? I don't see the logic here. Allow me to spell it out sinse apparently you dont get it. You are an adc and you treat the support player like reheated DOGSHIT. You dont get to turn around and cry "but its for the team" when support tells you to fuck off and focuses on building themselves up. No its not "i want cs because others are mean to me" its "I want CS because my teammates are self-entitled narcissists who will stop the game to throw a tantrum in lane the moment things dont follow THEIR schedule. > > If this is how you feel about playing support... how about just **NOT** playing support? > Scratch that: If this is how you feel about the **TEAM** aspect of this game, how about you just stop playing this game? Sorry But YOU do not get to dictate to others who can or cannot play this game. YOU do not get to dictate how others play the game. > > Thereby imposing your playstyle on others. > You're not playing a single player game. I know you'll say "But others are so mean to me, they make me not want to play for the team anymore!" > That doesn't change the fact that this **IS** a team game. And if you don't want to play a team game **as** a teamgame, then again: just stop playing it. Oh kindly shut the fuck up with that "muh team game" as we both know that is a bullshit cop-out used only when its convenient for you. Yeah, they may have -designed- it as a team game. But it is not PLAYED as such. Especially when people are only concerned with "ur garbage cuz kills" completely ignoring assists or other forms of helping the team. and yeah actually, Players DO treat it like a damn single player game, and only pull the "its a team game" when the enemy kicks their ass for only farming kills because they want someone to throw under the bus. > > And just to be clear, that goes for the idiots who only care about their own stats, too. But you're not better than them; in fact I consider you to be one of those. > I'd rather not have you **OR** them playing this game. I really dont give a fuck what you "Consider" me, I lost any respect for this community a long time ago when you turned a good strategy TEAM game, into just a fucking pissing contest over who has more kills than who. Ignoring towers for 30 minutes so you could farm kills, then acting shocked when your killstreaks dont automatically destroy towers FOR YOU. Doesnt matter who you want playing or not. This is what your game has become, so embrace it. > > If it's really about **this** little gold… care to elaborate why you don't just buy the gold item? Because if you're just taking 2% of the ADCs cs, I can safely say you would earn more with the gold item. > Besides, if it really was such a negligible amount of gold: Why do **YOU** insist on having it? > > You can't on the one hand pretend that the gold is so significant that it is vital to your playstyle, and on the other hand pretend that it's so insignificant that it makes no difference to the ADC. I take the farm because I want to. I am focused on MYSELF. There is no rule saying I face banning for taking minions. And considering how they are that eager to degrade the support role, then so be it. I will make up the difference by taking it out of the minion waves. If I get more gold to build myself up by going after minions, than thats where i will go. and I never once said it was insignificant to the adc, I am saying I DO NOT CARE what the adc does. because the moment i take ONE minion, Kill ONE CS. Adc goes completely apeshit and reverts to a toddler in a candy store who didnt get the chocolate bar. So they drop to the ground kicking and screaming and causing the biggest fit. I am under no obligation to extend ANY courtesy to a screaming toddler. > > Yes. And if you had read my first post in this thread, you'd know that my point is precisely that it's stupid to go into the same lane with two gold dependent champions. Play a proper support champion and what you "need" is absolutely zero cs. > More doesn't harm, of course, but it's definitely not something you "need" to make meaningful contributions all the way into midgame and - with the right champion - even endgame. again, all I am hearing from you is "shut up and fall in line. who cares if adc treats their support like shit, do what you are supposed to "for the team" Nah, I have a spine and I like it right where it is. > > Don't want to do that? Play a different role. > Don't want to do that, either? Play a different game. How about you take your own advice and play your OWN game instead of trying to force everyone else to fall in line. > > Edit: Oh, and I still didn't hear an answer from you regarding my two questions. > Just as a reminder: > Does your team as a whole get more gold if you buy a gold item? Dont give a fuck if they do or they dont. I am playing to build myself up sinse my 'team' is too busy sucking off their own ego and bragging about how "hard carry" they are despite never touching a tower. Again, Maybe when i find an actual 'team' I will let you know. > Do partial or full items give more power per gold? again, dont give a fuck, whatever damages the tower, damages it. and I want to bring it down sooner rather than later. > > I know why you don't want to answer them, though. You'd have to admit that your choices undeniably hurt your team. What part of "this stopped being a team game long ago" are you unclear on. I am building MYSELF up while my 'team' is more interested in admiring themselves in the mirror talking about how 'trash' their teammates are. So if it hurts the team? oh well. thats not MY problem. I am trying to win, i have no interest in being my adcs personal cheerleader section. Riot fucked over the gold income from supports, so I am taking it out of minions. Adc doesnt like that, they have two choices. Adapt or shut the fuck up and go pout in spawn while I pull the smallest violin. While they are busy throwing a shitfit because support taxed their minion waves for the job of keeping them alive, I will just take more and more farm and let them go have fun in thier 'safe space' where they can remember when supports knew their place to just "shut up and heal" So yeah, dont know how many ways I can say I no longer give a fuck about your season 2 "rules for support" Maybe when adcs stop seeing supports as disposable dogshit, maybe then they can EARN back respect. Till then I play for myself, take your "not team" game and shove it

No, actually I dont give a fuck about your precious stats, thats why I will take as much cs as I need to build MYSELF up. Why? because most if not all (with the rare exception) ADCS have been Nothing but spoiled, entitled little diaper-rash toddlers who will throw a fit the moment someone doesnt play how THEY want. And no, dont give me that "for the team" bullshit. I have tried playing "for the team" and what does it get me? nothing but stress and headaches when I throw everything to pull the adc out of a fight just for them to throw me under the bus anyways. So no, I am not imposing any playstyle on anyone. I am Playing MY playstyle for MYSELF. Because I am sick of being thrown under the bus because my adc wants to cash in a "Get out of blame free" card. And besides, I am not the one who throws a fucking temper tantrum in the spawn because the support takes 1/6 minions and then ints while telling everyone "its supports fault I am inting". So yeah, keep trying kiddo, maybe something will stick. I Do not care who gets more or less gold, I am playing FOR MYSELF because I am sick of being thrown under the bus and being told "its for the team. Its all your fault, take the blame for the team" and yeah, you are the one trying to convince me that its somehow MY fault that an adc cant work with 98% gold instead of the full 100% gold. You are the one obssessed with your stats and numbers. I dont give a fuck who gets what kill in what hole. I take what I need. Maybe if my "teams" didnt act like a bunch of narcissistic rich kids I might have a bit more respect. Go back to fighting over who is more "Trash" than who.

Ahh here we go, the precious "you cant attack A unless you meet Quota B" thing. I have gone in and attacked a tower with a basic{{item:1036}} , You dont need a wealth of gold to do damage to a tower, to chip away at it. Again you people seem obsessed with your precious stats. Who has more gold, who has less gold, who has more kills, who has less kills. who cant attack what without 200cs and a 4800 gold sword. Give it a damn rest already. Take your bean counting somewhere else. I dont care about your precious stat pissing contest. My objective is taking down the tower, not sitting around farming some 10,000 gold E-penor sword before taking down my first tower. I chip away at the tower and break it down bit by bit, Not spend the entire game waiting to bring it down in one showboat "big playz bruh" Here is a secret....thats MY PLAY STYLE. You know those things the precious league puritans want scrubbed from the community, along with individuality. So yeah, I do the best with what I have. I adapt to the situation, I change my builds based on what I NEED, not the precious flavor of the week meta. And I dont remember asking or caring what you play. You jump down my throat because I am not towing the line. And people wonder why I will not extend the COURTESY of uncontested farm. I have stated my intentions. so again, ADCs can either adapt or go have a tantrum in the corner for all the fucks i give.

warding is supposed to be the TEAMs job, not just limited to the support. Kinda like the jungler who never leaves jungle then says "its not my job to gank your lane or help with towers" those are everyones responsibilities, taking down towers and helping lanes is not limited to just ONE role.

actually I just got out of a match with my method, and shock of shock...we WON. Do you know why? because despite the gold split, we were both able to equally scale in level and thus keep each other alive. And no, splitting the gold does not leave both incapable of snowballing. We won because my adc timed the shots right. When he got the minion, you know what i didnt do? Drop to the ground kicking and screaming about that - 1-2 minion loss completely threw the game. He kept going and was focused on...wait for it...Attacking the TOWER., not bitching and complaining when someone other than him secured a minion. In fact it actively helped, because we were more of a threat in bot lane because we were BOTH scaling. This forced the enemy team to send more ganks and more resourses to focus on bot lane, allowing the other lanes to more easily push. So no, this gold-splitting myth doesnt work. It is merely fiction written by children who are the same types that will drop to the ground kicking and screaming about how the game is over due to a 1cs support. Rather than just focusing on the game and adapting, they will screech the game to a grinding halt begging for reports because they are forced to share the lane with someone else. And no, I am not "determined to move away from" anything. I really couldnt give a shit. I am telling you what I AM doing. not what I might do. I dont care about your personal reasons. YOU can call it "sabotaging" all you want. But thats YOUR justification for someone not doing what YOU say. Bottom lane is a DUO lane, Meaning 2 people, Not 1 adc and slave. Bottom lane was always meant to be a shared lane. thats why no one player OWNS minions. Riot chose to fuck over support items, so I will not be buying support items. About time ADC learns that the game is not just about THEM. So you have two choices Adapt, adjust, and focus on taking down towers. or Bitch scream cry and tantrum because someone other than YOU is securing minions and scaling. Either way I really dont care. I stated what I intend to do. I wasnt asking for your permission.

> One of the rules of the summoner's code is "Support your team". Oh I DO support my team, I help mid and top lanes and go help jungler when I can. I am however under no obligation to cripple myself and put up with my adc spending the entire game talking about how "useless" thier team is for not having double digit kills. Best for the entire team? dont pull that shit on me. This game stopped being a team game when people started judging other people's -worth- based on who has more kills. You can ignore the towers and do fuck all to help the team win, but snipe last hit kills and score 15/2 and you can do whatever the fuck you want. You seem to completely miss the point of the support role, much like most of this community. NO, the support is not for the express purpose of supporting ONE champion. The supports role is to support the whole TEAM, not to be adcs personal lane-slave. The role of support is to keep the TEAM alive, to help provide vision and to help the TEAM bring down towers. If you only care about ONE champ being put on a pedestal above everyone else, then maybe you should go find another game. I personally am sick of being demeaned and degraded for being a support because I prefer going for towers rather than sucking off the adc. And if the adc is more concerned with giving their own ego a blowjob, then they dont deserve to be made to "shine" If you spend the entire game telling your whole team how they are "beneath you" or are "trash" compared to you, then you dont deserve anything, any courtesy. I help the team, I dont give a fuck about some ego-stroking adc. And sinse Riot decided to starve off the support with items, then I will just fore-go the support item and just start farming minions. There IS no RULE that says SUPPORT CANNOT TAKE MINIONS. There is no RULE that says "If a support takes minions which a teammate has claimed as their own, player may face permanent banning" No, The whole "support allows adc to farm uncontested" is a COURTESY. It is a gesture of faith, NOT A REQUIREMENT. And I personally am no longer willing to extend that courtesy to a community of adcs who see the support as "second class trash" and who can be deemed as "inting garbage" for not surviving a bot/supp/mid/jungle ambush. so yeah, keep crying, its not greifing. I am building MYSELF up to help MYSELF win. If the adc wants to win, they will simply build more damage and TAKE THE FUCKING FARM FROM ME. instead they throw a fucking tantrum in mid lane screaming and crying about 'greifing" and then say its MY fault when THEY decide to RUN IT DOWN MID because their "trash support is greifing" again, its a courtesy, not a rule. I am still supporting my team, adcs are just getting pissy because they actually have to share lane minions in a DUO LANE for once and dont just have a lane slave they can use as a "Get out of blame free" card.

oh i was all to happy to support my adc before the "solo carry" attitude set in and people started seeing the support as just some useless healbot to be kicked around. And if they lose gold advantage when they spend the entire game talking about how "worthless" or "trash" thier team is, they deserve it. Riot wants to screw over the support while the adc talks about how "Trash" their support is for not being 38/2 like them, sorry but at that point the adc needs to be knocked off thier High horse

It doesnt BELONG to adc anyways. Supports not taking CS is a COURTESY, Not a rule. If ADCs see thier supports as that much of a second class citizen. then they dont get to complain when they start losing the courtesy of the uncontested farm.

as a support main, this just means I will have to find other income sources, say taxing more and more of the minion wave, forcing adc to actually FIGHT for their cs. Lord knows they see their supports as little more than meat shields and healbots anyways. I stopped seeing my team as any importance anyways. If I can bust my ass to get my adc a triple, get them out of a fight alive and still be told how "useless" i am because I am 0/2/15 becuz "look at ur kills, ur trash" as SUPPORT. Guess its time for adc to see how it feels to be treated as the second-class peasant in the lane relationship. :) There is no rule saying that supports cannot take cs, so I intend to fully make use of that. I will no longer extend the COURTESY of uncontested farm. (Yes, the whole "Supports dont take cs" that is a common courtesy, a friendly gesture. NOT A WRITTEN IN STONE RULE)

Thats Ok though. You can bust your ass, get your adc a triple kill, get them out alive. But 10 seconds later be told how "fucking useless support" you are because "Look at ur kills" But support takes ONE CS and my adc will immediately drop to the ground kicking and screaming because "trolling support taking cs" So if they think me taxing 1 or 2 minions off a wave is "Greifing" they havent seen anything yet considering these support "anti-poaching" rules. Just means I will avoid the support item and just take direct farm instead. No rule saying support cannot take farm.

Thats ok, I just take the minions in place of the support item. There is no rule saying I cannot. and If my adc cant last hit, then thats their problem. Most of the time just taking ONE minion is enough to cause them to ragequit and tantrum the entire game anyways. 1 out of the umph-teen million minions being mass produced is enough to cause the adc to drop to the ground kicking and screaming like a toddler who didnt get the candy bar at the supermarket. And lets not forget, adcs think of thier supports as less than people. So they see their supports as "shut up and heal" So guess I will be just poaching minions WITHOUT the support item. Again, There is no rule saying a support cannot take cs as no one OWNS minions. It is a courtesy, and if riot wants to screw over supports that much, then I will just pass that on to my adc. Alot of people play the game in a sort of "Not my lane, not my problem" attitude, they dont care about anything untill it personally affects them. The same way mid laner wont lift a finger to help bot lane, but will happily call for "Report our feeding bot lane" when their enemy gets fed and roams to mid lane. Well the same attitude is held to roles, They wont care about other roles untill it affects them. So the problems of the support role, WILL become the problems of every other role.

I just find it hillarious. I said a long time ago that season 9 would be the last season before riot fell off a cliff. Every time I said that the game sold its soul, I was mocked and shut down. I wasnt building >insert popular meta< I wasnt playing >insert popular champ< I was focused on winning, not sitting around patting myself on the back. Strategy in the game was slowly being stripped away, teamwork went out the window. It was no longer a game of "Work as a team to take down towers and destroy the enemy nexus" instead it became a game of "compete WITH your teammates to see who can get the most kills till one side gives up and surrenders" I used to be a team player, happy to "take the bullet" for an adc so they could then go on, take the tower and help the team win. Now I couldnt give a rats ass about any of the egotistical Toddlers that make up the league community. the ones who throw a fit at the mere notion of having to share any spotlight with anyone else on thier team. The way I put it is simple. Players no longer Que up to find 4 teammates, but rather que up to find their personal 4-man cheerleader section. Teamwork is gone Strategy is gone creativity in builds and champs? Gone. You try playing anything outside the pre-approved "meta" and you will hear so many calls of "ur greifing" it will make your head spin. I have started taking gold from my adcs for 2 reasons. 1) there is no rule saying I cant, and most of the times my adcs are too busy flattering themselves to care about winning, they are more concerned with going on about how hard they are "Carrying this trash team" and 2) Its a test: You can usually tell what kind of adc you have by how they react after you take a minion. The mature, adaptable players will do just that. They will adapt, we both scale..and I may even back off and slide into a traditional support role, easing off the farm and letting them push ahead to win. Usually these players are much more mature, flexible, forgiving, and more focused on actually WINNING then how hard the team is sucking them off. Or There is the toddler, The spoiled, entitled child who will spamm "?" on you till your ears fall off in protest. The one who will grind the entire game to a halt so they can drop to the ground in mid lane, kicking and screaming till the entire team promises to "9x the greifer, lets get them banned". and if the team doesnt side with them, they will intentionally throw the game to punish the team because "team doesnt deserve to win". Uncontested farm is a COURTESY, NOT A RULE. This means if a teammate is more focused on farming 300cs and 30 kills, they arent interested in winning. But back to what I was saying, people treat meta like its the witch trials. If you build anything outside the pre-approved, you are "Greifing" Creativity and strategy are being stripped out of the game, People arent allowed to have thier own strategy, thier own build path. Thier own play styles. I play aggressive, poke-heavy..."death by 1000 papercuts" so now I am gonna have to just sit back, shut up, and be a good little healbot because...1000 gold? WOOOOOW. How generous, and all it cost the game was everything that made it appealing. I said it before, and I will say it now. Season 10 will be when League goes off a cliff. It stripped creativity, it stripped away strategy...and you can see it now. ITS CHASING AWAY ITS OWN PLAYERBASE. (Seriously how many threads did I see of "as a Season ___ player, I am done" or "Season 10 patch, I quit") Good job riot. Just shut down league and become an animation studio instead. Your player base is falling off a cliff anyways.

Yeah sorry but no, that "deal" doesnt work for me. It is only the "best way to secure a win" if you rip out your spine and allow yourself to be degraded and insulted to appease the adcs ego. The adc is the center of attention, support player has no worth at all. If support secures a kill? they are greifing/trolling. If they DONT secure a kill, they are useless. If you want someone to help you and show you common courtesy, dont spend the entire game telling them how worthless they are compared to the decended GOD that is the adc. lets put it this way, You punch your neighbor in the face, tell them how useless they are and worthless compared to you. Then ask them to help you lift a heavy chair up a flight of stairs, because thats the best way to secure moving the furniture from point A to B. Tell me: How WILLING do you think they are gonna be to help you. My guess is, they would tell you to fuck off and slam the door in your face. so yeah, its common courtesy, No...not a rule. But the example I gave above, not a "courtesy" I am gonna extend.

they are cracking the whip on me using "its da rulez" to try and trick me into falling back in line. There are no explicity stated rules, it is a common courtesy. It is an agreement, an arrangement. NOT a rule.

Yeah I mean Riot has stated they "WILL NOT ENFORCE META" but no one believes it. But its the community that is so puritanical that they are unwilling to adapt or find new ways. They still expect support to live by the 'rules' they set in season 2. All the while adcs can spend all day laughing about how "fucking useless" the supports are. But as soon as a support like me decides to show a spine and show that "you need me more than I need you", they call it "Greifing" and tell me I need to "know your role" Yeah I know my role, I know how to play support. I just refuse to be the adcs personal lane-bitch anymore. If I want to win, I have to build myself up instead. If adc thinks they are "too op for this trash team" I welcome them to STEP UP AND PROVE IT. (and most of the time, they dont. They drop to the ground, kick, scream, pout in spawn. Throw the game and tell me its MY fault THEY decided not to play anymore)

Nah I dont get autofilled, I main support. But I take one minion and my adcs completely lose thier shit, quit the match and spend the game pouting in spawn. And when I do play "by the rules", you know what i get? Told how "fucking useless support" for not being able to save a kamekazi adc. I can bust my ass to keep adc aive and get them a tripple, then get told how I played no part in it. and yeah, people like you are one of the reasons why I am no longer willing to extend a common courtesy. You assume because I am not kissing my adcs ass that I am a troll. Try again. or better yet dont. You arent worth the response.

Then by all means let the adcs use the passive gold income untill they learn to last hit better, till they can do more damage. They come with other benefits (though ancient coin is being removed next patch or so I am led to believe). But as a support I am no longer willing to just blindly hand over farm while my adc tells me what a piece of shit I am and how useless i am for missing a Q. or for Not saving them from diving a 1v2 with no mana and abilities on cooldown.

> You have a drinking prblem? The rule that supports are not allowed to take cs was created by players then adapted by riot. You either play by the rules EVERYONE agrees on or don't do it at all... or better: GET A FUCKING DUO! YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED CS IF YOU ARE SUPPORT, YOU HAVE A GOLD INCOME ITEM THAT SAYS THAT - IT'S A LEAGUE OF LEGENDS RULE. IF YOU WANT TO CS TAKE A SOLO LANE, OR ADC, IDK! If you play with a r%%%%% that constantly dies, nobody will say shit if you farm while he's dead. What you want to do is called grief and should be punished, and it would be if the tribual would still exist. Then show me the rule, show me the exact rule in the book that says if a support takes cs they can face punishment and banning. Again, Its NOT a Rule, its a common courtesy. One I am no longer willing to extend. and If the "gold income items" are so great, then fine. The adc can take it to offset untill they can last hit better. But again, tell me where the rule is. Try again > Is both the support's duty and adc's to secure kills, doesn't matter who. What are you iron? If yes don't post about the in-game playstyles and balance ever again. Both? Oh really? then tell that to the adcs who throw a shitfit when I secure kills as the support because I am "killstealing" and "All kills are supposed to go to the adc" and yeah, whether I am iron or not does not determine the validity of my argument nor is there a rule saying "you are only allowed to post on this board if you are ranked gold or above!" Try again! > Wrong! supps such as soraka are a use for the entire game: of dragons, barons, heralds, top-laner, bot-laners, mid-laners, screwing with the enemy jungler to put them behind. Assassin such as pyke, securer such as nunu, and many more. R u a drug addict? I never said Use the entire game. What I said is that these adcs believe that the SUPPORT is ONLY FOR USE BY ADC. If I roam to help mid or top lane, they will spam ping missing on me because I am not chained to thier side and ONLY THEM the entire game. "Support is supposed to be with the adc only!" That is what they scream at me while calling for reports when I roam to help mid with thier lane or throw a few heals in top lane who could use the support more. Again I think you may have misunderstood the actual post and maybe you should read it again... Either way, I will adapt and adjust to the game, not get stuck in the old "season 2" mentality -supports are not allowed CS -supports are not allowed kills -supports are there for the exclusive use of the ADC -supports are to willingly give up thier life so that the adc can secure a kill These are things that have been told to me AS SUPPORT by ADC. These adcs have thier mind stuck in season 2 and these are the "rules" they expect me to follow as support. I Main support, and if they see this as the rules a support player must live by, then they deserve whatever they get because they are unwilling to see thier support as little more than a tool, something to be kicked around and discarded once they are "fed" so please, TRY AGAIN!

A) Antagonizing your team > A) Antagonizing your team Nah not antagozing anything, just no longer willing to extend a common courtesy I am getting the shit-stick on. Maybe when Adcs stop acting like thier supports are some diseased leper they need to be rid of as soon as possible. So I am focused on building up myself, I no longer give a shit about my teams. And btw, STOP bullshitting, we all know this game stopped being a "Team" game when people decided it is more important to have a dick-measuring contest over who has more kills. > B) Starving gold dependent champions of gold Not my problem, if they chose a gold dependent champion, then that is something THEY will have to adapt to. Or again, just build damage and take the cs. Beat me to the last hit, good for you. You did more damage, you killed it first...its done. But No, Its not MY fault they chose a gold dependant champ then degrade and insult the support player expecting them to "know your place!" > C) Adding an additional player your ADC needs to "compete" against to gain gold See above statement. The only REASOn this has become an issue is because adcs have become so entitled and full of themselves they ALREADY see thier support as an obstacle. If you spend the entire game telling your support how "Trash" they are for missing an ability or falling to cc to make yourself feel better, dont expect them to extend the common courtesy of uncontested farm. > D) Wasting resources; even if it is just autoattacks that could have been directed elsewhere. I am not wasting resources I am ensuring that I can at least hold my own with the REST of the team when my adc does (it happens like clockwork) finds something to throw a frigging tantrum over) and ends up pulling the "Im done, gg, Im afk" bullshit. I am focused on making sure That I can at least help pick up the slack and can hold my own Without having to babysit an adc who thinks themselves so high and mighty that the whole team is only there to powder thier ass and tell them what a wonderful person they are. > And let's not talk around the bush here, if you are doing these things intentionally or willingly? You are griefing. If you prefer that term over "cs stealing" I'm fine with using that word. Willingly or intentionally? You mean building MYSELF up to support the REST of the team for when the adc intentionally has a screaming shitfit in bot lane and eventually pouts in spawn begging for reports on the support for "stealing cs" Yeah sorry as much as you think it is, thats not greifing. I am trying to win, I dont have time to waste on an adc who is more interested in fighting to keep the spotlight and attention on THEM ALONE rather than trying to win the match. Thats not greifing, thats called readjusting my priority. Back in season 3-4 it was about keeping my team alive, and yeah, even as a support main now. My priority as a support is to keep the team alive. But now, my priotity is adjusted in order of: 1: Build myself up in strength and ability 2:Take towers and objectives to help give the rest of the team more breathing room to work in 3: Help keep THE TEAM (notice i said team, NOT "keep adc") alive and help where i can 4: see if the adc needs actual help and not just looking for someone to chase kills with them...assuming they arent pouting over the match not being "all about ME" So yeah, keep trying to call it greifing, its not. And untill you show me the EXACT RULE where it says that taking cs as a support can lead to being banned. Imma focus on ME.

When you have been dealing with this stuff sinse season 3, there is only so much of this shit you can take. I mean yeah back in season 3 it wasnt as bad. but in recent seasons its just begun skyrocketing. and Yeah I am constantly being told how me taking or "Stealing cs" is gonna end in "enjoy ur ban" because people dont personally approve. And If I have to keep saying it I will. Dont care what people THINK it is, It is NOT a rule. It is a courtesy, and one that I am fed up extending to adcs who will only take it and then accuse me of 'inting" when I take a bullet/ult meant for them. Adcs have gotten more arrogant, more narcissist and full of themselves. and Yeah they treat it as "Stealing cs = greifing = PERMABAN" So I want to see the exact rule. Word. For. Word. That says If a support takes cs, that will get your account banned. Sinse they seem to be so religiously convinced it exists.

thank you

Thank you, Yes, as I said. It is a courtesy, NOT A RULE. Supports Not taking CS is a COURTESY, not a rule Leashing the JUNGLE is a courtesy, Not a rule. Even building according to meta is a COURTESY, Not a rule. AS I said, I have been playing sinse season 3, back then the community was a lot nicer, alot less arrogant. There was toxicity but it was nowhere near this bad. The support and adc had a general agreement. IT was well known, The support let the adc farm, and the adc relied on the support to keep them alive. Now in season 9, adcs go into every game with a whip treating support like a lane slave. Well sinse that "I give you farm, you treat me with basic respect" agreement is gone. THat means I am under no obligation to just hand over farm uncontested. There is no rule, minions are not OWNED by anyone. Maybe when adcs stop treating supports like shit and acting like "you got me fed, now fuck off and go back to your corner" then maybe the agreement will return. But as a support main, I am not just gonna bend the knee. And the funny thing is, I often hear "Fine, I dont need a useless support like you" when I say I am roaming due to a toxic adc. But these SAME adcs will then immediately turn around with "Report my support for greifing, abandoning lane' the first time they die because they 'didnt need a support' so yeah, Maybe once adcs let some air out of those overinflated egos, common courtesy can return, till then I am under no obligation or rule to just hand minions over to them. They can farm, just not uncontested

Yeah go ahead. I will adapt and find other ways, I learn to adjust as the game changes. I find alternate sources. and I am not saying I am going to take -all- cs from adc. Just that I will no longer willingly hand it over to adc. If they want it so bad, they will build DAMAGE, do more damage than me, and TAKE IT. Otherwise it does not concern me if my adc decides its more prudent to drop to the ground kicking and screaming, grinding the game to a halt while they beg and plead both side to "work with me to ensure this cs stealing support gets permabanned". If they want it so badly, they will do more damage than me, and secure it. Or they can go sit in the corner sucking thier thumb and hugging thier favorite teddybear for all I care. Either way, I will adapt and adjust to the game, not get stuck in the old "season 2" mentality -supports are not allowed CS -supports are not allowed kills -supports are there for the exclusive use of the ADC -supports are to willingly give up thier life so that the adc can secure a kill (yeah i have been told that as a support its "your job to die if the adc needs a kill" as well as various other alterations of the same idea. Expecting supports to throw themselves upon the sword for the adc)

I usually play support because it allows me the breathing room to watch the map, watch enemy movement patterns. Naturally I want to try and keep my team alive. I am pretty good when it comes to "Clutch heals". But it really doesnt make a difference as this community doesnt even want to win anymore. Try to win in normals: "its just norms, dont be tryhard" try to win in RANKED: "its just a game, dont be so tryhard. Chill" yeah i am being told that. But I secure Minions my adc ignores and they are going out of thier way to "Report support for stealing cs" which they ignore waves after waves of anyways so they can chase a kill from bot lane to baron (and still not secure it)

Yeah and often if I take 1 cs, whether by accident or otherwise, they will throw a tantrum, afk, pout in spawn while crying about how i need to be banned. How the game is "over" because support has 1cs. At that point they lose all "Courtesy" I may have given them. and yeah, I have almost every game, see my adc completely ignore full waves of minions to chase kills across the map, but they beg for permaban when I kill ONE minion. Last game wasnt even 5 minutes in, a full minion wave left so that adc could chase 2 kills they didnt even get. So they didnt get the kills, didnt get the minions, didnt get the towers, but -I- am the "Troll" for "stealing cs"

Not new, been playing sinse season 3, keep trying to dismiss my arguement based on level, rank, etc. Rather than actually bringing an opposing view

nah, wont get mad, will find other means of income. and work with what i have. I ADAPT. not tantrum in lane

Guidelines are not rules. And again "Generally follow and all come together" is also known as a "common courtesy". That is not a rule, that is a "You dont treat me like something you spat on in the street and we can come to an agreement" not a "You didnt do what -I- told you to do so I am gonna throw the whole match by having a tantrum in lane and begging everyone for reports". Yeah when I started playing I was generally quite happy to follow the courtesy of "ok, adc gets the minions, support keeps them alive" That courtesy went out the window when standard procedure became "adc dies ONCE and instantly blames support and goes out of thier way to try and get support banned" That courtesy ended when support players can bust thier ass to pull thier team out of a fight alive, only to get told how "fucking useless" they are. And btw, your precious Meta isnt working ensure players arent "fighting with each other rather than the enemy" every single game, its often the adc blaming the rest of thier team because they died, spamming ? pings on anyone who doesnt do what they say, who dies for any reason, or doesnt play at the skill level they expect. So to bring it back. Show me the EXACT RULE. Show me where it is written that the support MUST NOT take minions or face banishment. That Adc Has direct ownership over lane minions, that jungle has direct ownership over jungle camps and that a support "Stealing cs" will be permanently punished or banned for killing minions another player called "Dibs" on.

I get told how "useless" or "worthless" I am as a support. How I am nothing because I am not rolling in kills. So start building myself up sinse I am so "worthless" suddenly I take ONE minion and my adcs completely throw a fit and tell me how "its a team game" well sure, but according to my adcs, IM NOT PART OF THE TEAM. I am "trolling" or "working for the enemy team" because I didnt jump at the crack of a whip. So they immediately throw the match and tell me how its MY fault that THEY decided "Im done, Im afk. Its all supports fault" Sorry I am gonna keep taking cs, you want it, build damage and TAKE IT FROM ME...yknow, like adc is supposed to do? Riot has stated that there is NO RULE saying support is not allowed to farm. No one owns CS... Supports ALLOW the adc to farm out of consideration. It is a gesture of good faith, not a rule. I however have no good faith left after being told how "useless" I am and how "supports arent worth as much as the rest of the team" Try telling me that when you need supports help to keep you alive. These people have become completely wrapped up in themselves, And I personally think its time they be brought back down off thier high horse.

I am assuming extremely low Iq with people starting off everything with "Bruh...." If you are gona start a converstation with "bruh.." then dont even talk to me. You dont know how incredibly stupid you sound saying that. I got out of a match where a self-rightous back seat player spent the entire game dictating to me how I was "Allowed" to build and telling me how if I went into ranked it would be considered "greifing" and I would be "immediately banned" This despite me reminding her riot does not enforce meta and that I was actually helping the team win (I was 6/1 at the time as senna support) But she still spent the entire game calling me greifing because I wasnt building strictly "damage". that I had my own build strategy (which she didnt approve of, therefore it fell into the "Greifing" catagory) My playstyle doesnt need strictly damage, as its more of a "Death by 1000 papercuts" style. Poke-heavy, repeated assault, chip away and dont let them escape, then finish them off when they are low and trying to run. But these low IQ meta puritans want to spend more time beating you over the head demanding you "build proper" (by proper, they mean what THEY deem proper) than actually playing the damn game. Cant have people playing by thier own strategies or coming up with thier own un-approved builds. That would be bad!

Or you have the game all but won, and you get the showboating asshat who pulls the "Dont end yet, I want a penta/ace" and then you end up losing because the team decides to give the showboater what they want, allowing the enemy team to scale up and overtake Because why end a won match when you can hold your team hostage so one player can further inflate thier already overinflated ego, only to throw the whole match in an effort to show how "too OP" they are.

Oh yeah, but I have also had alot of games where I suggest taking towers over chasing kills, and the brilliant response I get from junglers is "Im the jungler, Its not my JOB to take TOWERS" or I suggest people put out more wards and my team responds "Warding is the SUPPORTS job, NOT MINE" and my only thought is "Then WTF are you doing on a 5v5 if its "not your job" to help with warding, taking towers, or doing anything outside of 'most kills, bruh' "

Right thats why I have lost alot of accounts for telling people that oignoring the objective means you lose the match...apparently thats being "negative" and "Ruining players experiences" as for what it has to do with support damage? The puritans dont WANT support to be able to do damage. They want support to remain someone they can kick around. They dont want support getting kills they dont want support doing damage. because that means that the support can move along without the adc. and heaven forbid the spotlight shine on anyone OTHER than the Adc Thats why they dont want support getting damage, it means the adc isnt the only one capable of carrying the team

My biggest one is players who completely ignore towers (like, wont even auto them with the whole enemy team dead). You suggest "we need to take towers" and they respond with "Stfu look at ur kills" Then when we lose (because if you decide having a 20+ kda is more important than taking down outer towers....or any towers), they will immediately use "cant carry this trash team. Got most kills" Yeah I cant believe i have to keep telling people. Towers dont give a fuck about your killstreaks. You getting a quadra kill does not automatically deduct 4-hits from the tower. If you sign up to an objective based game. Then proceed to spend the entire game ignoring the OBJECTIVE (towers, dragons, inhibs, NEXUS) YOU LOSE. sorry not sorry if that fact hurts the tdm players "im too pro" egos.

Its not the -game- I have the problem with its the obscene level of narcissism, entitlement, arrogance, and conceit that the player base has developed. basically Players que up but they are not looking for teammates, they are looking for 4 others to be thier personal cheerleader section. There to pat them on the back and tell them how amazing they are. Anyone who ISNT there to inflate thier ego or dares to burst thier "im the best, youa re all trash" bubble is seen as "toxic" I mean you tell people that "you sign into an objective game, and then proceed to ignore the objective, You lose the match, its that simple" and that is enough to get you banned. these people think they are "too good" that they think as long as they reach a certain # of kills, towers are optional. I had a recent game where had a {{champion:5}} jungle. He went 1/10 but spent the whole game refusing surrender votes and telling us "I'm literally a pro" so yeah, It drives me up the wall that a decent game can have such an obscenely narcissist community. too full of themselves to see anyone ELSE as their equals.