: I sincerely doubt that a big corporation such as Riot Games wants you to quit personally or cares if you do.
> [{quoted}](name=How Do You Meta,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3mULAz7Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-15T05:53:49.951+0000) > > I sincerely doubt that a big corporation such as Riot Games wants you to quit personally or cares if you do. I think you missed the point. This is asking why a team of unranked, under level 30 players can be matched against diamond level players. Why anyone new to the game, who cannot even queue for ranked, is matched against the top 5% of players. Its a brutal and unfun experience. So why does a company that claims it wants new players have a system that makes the new players feel unwanted?
Comentários de Rioters
afmghost (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vrmBjMNv,comment-id=000000010002,timestamp=2019-06-13T15:04:15.417+0000) > > Start recording your daily activities in full. Upload the videos and give us the links. If you don't, it means you are committing crimes and should be imprisoned. 1. You're just another Joe Schmo, and have no authority 2. There's a thing called probable cause, so they have reason to ask for that information.
> [{quoted}](name=afmghost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=vrmBjMNv,comment-id=0000000100020000,timestamp=2019-06-13T15:11:01.967+0000) > > 1. You're just another Joe smho, and have no authority > 2. There's a thing called probable cause, so they have reason to ask for that information. While I am not here to comment on whether I agree or disagree with the point you are trying to make, I want to point out that is not what “probable cause” means. Probable cause is the standard by which police use to obtain a warrant for an arrest or a search. It has nothing to do with requesting documentation believed to be relevant ina dispute.
: @maplenectar. I have some questions regarding the Leona changes. Why do you think nerfing early flat resist is a good direction to strengthen Leona when early game resist shred is at an all time high? likewise how is Leona’s late game improved when flat resist is less effective overall than shields and percentage reduction with items? Why are you worried about Leona’s laning when she cannot solo lane to begin with and would not want to use W unless engaging as support? I honestly don’t understand why Leona and amumu are always the cc tanks that can’t be played while nautilus and Sejuani and alistar can be strong
> [{quoted}](name=GleamingTheMeta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P4eh9Or5,comment-id=0031,timestamp=2018-08-03T19:14:13.448+0000) > > @maplenectar. > > I have some questions regarding the Leona changes. Why do you think nerfing early flat resist is a good direction to strengthen Leona when early game resist shred is at an all time high? likewise how is Leona’s late game improved when flat resist is less effective overall than shields and percentage reduction with items? > > Why are you worried about Leona’s laning when she cannot solo lane to begin with and would not want to use W unless engaging as support? > > I honestly don’t understand why Leona and amumu are always the cc tanks that can’t be played while nautilus and Sejuani and alistar can be strong Is riot already done responding to questions? How can there be a Q&A if only a select few actually get a response?
: Tank changes for 8.16
@maplenectar. I have some questions regarding the Leona changes. Why do you think nerfing early flat resist is a good direction to strengthen Leona when early game resist shred is at an all time high? likewise how is Leona’s late game improved when flat resist is less effective overall than shields and percentage reduction with items? Why are you worried about Leona’s laning when she cannot solo lane to begin with and would not want to use W unless engaging as support? I honestly don’t understand why Leona and amumu are always the cc tanks that can’t be played while nautilus and Sejuani and alistar can be strong
: Kindred Rework (Mini?) Discussion
Comentários de Rioters
: @Riot: Can we please fix matchamking
Comentários de Rioters
: I'm pretty sure it was an Atari game, but which one I couldn't say for certain. There's a 50/50 it was Pac Man or whatever this was http://www.8-bitcentral.com/images/reviews/atari5200/qbert5200Screen.jpg
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JYcEss0E,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-23T20:01:00.190+0000) > > I'm pretty sure it was an Atari game, but which one I couldn't say for certain. There's a 50/50 it was Pac Man or whatever this was > > http://www.8-bitcentral.com/images/reviews/atari5200/qbert5200Screen.jpg That game is Q-Bert My first game was on the coleco vision. It was either qbert mousetrap or burgertime
Comentários de Rioters
: So this is the game that tells you this. Of the many other games that have been proof of this. Okay. I've seen numerous games already across the leagues that have had this similar snowball effect. This is snowballing! This series (or game 1 because game 2 is still going with a clearly different outcome) is not the first of its kind. In fact, haven't there already been something like 4 perfect games this season already? That would have been a better way to describe the "what is wrong with _pro_ league" topic
I dont think its what wrong with "pro" league... its whats wrong with LEAGUE. Its an even worse indication of the state of a games health when professional players cannot make a match remotely competitive after losing the first fight of the game. And this, of course, spills over into casual play at a more severe intensity. Oh and choosing this game solely because it just happened does not in any way invalidate its accuracy. Sorry my choice of match didnt suit your personal tastes
Comentários de Rioters
: {{champion:427}} +{{champion:202}} ...This is some self-reflection I don't think I was ready for.
> [{quoted}](name=NekoniClaws,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=6tAEvWPE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-01-23T18:41:20.319+0000) > > {{champion:427}} +{{champion:202}} > ...This is some self-reflection I don't think I was ready for. This is so obvious. Ivern Jhin I Vern Jhin I Ver Gin **I VIRGIN** you sir, are a virgin. You're welcome
: >com·mu·ni·ca·tion >kəˌmyo͞onəˈkāSH(ə)n/ >noun >1. >the imparting or **exchanging** of information or news. >"direct communication between the two countries will produce greater understanding" >synonyms: transmission, conveyance, divulgence, disclosure; More >2. >means of connection between people or places, in particular. Clearly, Riot doesn't consider just stating your intention to be enough to meet the burden of communication. In the setting of this game, I agree with them - you can shout "THIS STRATEGY IS GOOD AND IT WORKS" until you're blue in the face but that doesn't make me want to play it anymore, and describing your off-meta strategy doesn't implicitly give you permission to do it. I think the assumption that because he said something in chat about it he should be off the hook, because it's so easy to manipulate chat logs while being incredibly toxic with your in-game actions.
Again, you are conflating two different terms. Communicating and agreeing are not the same. He clearly is communicating his intent and the potential teammates are telling him not to. Their is clearly communication but not agreement. Not a ban able offense. And since the majority of our player base doesn't like anything new that doesn't come from Korea or the pros, we have a serious problem if everyone has to agree with everyone else's choice
Wuks (NA)
: It's times like these that I'm glad I'm consistent. Thanks for the link.
You are consistent. Unfortunately, in this case, you are consistently misinterpreting the word communication. The player is clearly communicating his intention. The result of which are the other children in the queue throwing a tantrum for not following their narrow view of how the game is meant to be played. I myself may not like or agree with his decision. However, it is his decision to make and as long as he plays his best with the intention to win (which people seem to be confusing with intent to troll) it's not my place to say he can't. Permission. What we as a community need to be careful of is where this type of mindset leads us. I want to play urgot but he's trash tear and my teammates don't agree with it. Now I can't without permission. I want to play so Susan in the jungle. I can't without permission. I want to play x but y is optimal. I can't without permission. Could we be more sheepish?
: it should absolutely be up to your team in Ranked whether you can do a weird off-meta strategy. Copy pastaing a paragraph is **NOT** communication.
Actually clearly stating his intention is the definition of communication. You simply don't happen to like what he is saying and are trying to use that against him. That's a very dangerous and closed minded opinion.
Minarde (NA)
: Only in that, as far as I'm aware, TT games haven't shown up in Featured Spectate in years, if ever. With the current bug, Spectate favors ARAM, and before new champ select, Spectate favored SR. It's kinda nice that high-MMR ARAM's getting some promotion for once, but high-MMR SR really doesn't need more advertising. There's plenty of other places to watch that stuff. It'd be nice if Featured Spectate prioritized at least one slot for each of the alternate maps instead of just having more SR spam.
Its not that I dislike ARAM. What I dont like is that I dont learn anything from it which is why I spectate high level play.... to see what they do in different matchups.
Comentários de Rioters
: To low elo people. Stop copying what you see. That is why you keep losing.
> [{quoted}](name=Simple Tora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WaUOIQhy,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-25T18:38:04.205+0000) > > Stop it. Just stop. Nobody wants to lose a game because you're trying to find a silly easy way to win. Isnt that what everyone tries to do though? The reason why people play FOTM overtuned champions? Because its an easier way to win? Otherwise Yorick would have an actual pick rate and we wouldnt see the same 30 champs in every LCS game. The silly, easy way to wiin is playing Zed when Zed is strong, Lee Sin in any season, Graves in any lane.
: I like Cass. I enjoy her current kit and play though its not really viable because too much power is loaded into her passive and E. Her ult is a game changer. I like the theme of a Gorgon Poison Mage. I am incredibly concerned about Cass being even more about poison. Why? Because DoT is problematic in games. When even in raw damage, it is always a worse option than upfront damage. DoTs give more time to react, be healed, dash away, shield, and even regen to survive the encounter. That means that DoTs have to do more total damage than DD, both base and scaling, to be viable. This causes two clear issues where strong; the DoT mage will always bully in the early game and will always be less effective in group fighting. When weak however, the DoT mage isnt worth the roster spot. Another problem is CD scaling. DoTs penalize players for reapplying too early (the DPS loss and mana drain). That means that they generally need higher CD's to prevent this from happening. This often leads to situations where the DoT mage cannot cast anything, all spells on CD or waiting for spells to finish there duration. "Well in group fights they cant DoT multiple targets," true, but it takes time to set up and large scale fights in LoL are hard to micro manage (think TF card counting but on roids). If you go another direction and keep Cass' two poisons but make Twin Fang apply a different on hit effect depending on which poison is applied, she becomes cool right? No she becomes Sona and her poisonchord. Way too similar in application and doesnt fit thematically. I do not know which direction the design team should go. This is a hard one to tackle in regards to keeping her fan base happy and allowing her to be healthy for the game. If I am being asked, the one thing I would not change at all is her ult. It is amazing at all stages of the game, is a huge powespike (as ults should be), and is effective in both team fights and solo.
> [{quoted}](name=GleamingTheMeta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YR2oKdaE,comment-id=01df,timestamp=2016-01-26T23:56:19.410+0000) > > I like Cass. > I enjoy her current kit and play though its not really viable because too much power is loaded into her passive and E. > Her ult is a game changer. > I like the theme of a Gorgon Poison Mage. > I am incredibly concerned about Cass being even more about poison. > > Why? Because DoT is problematic in games. When even in raw damage, it is always a worse option than upfront damage. DoTs give more time to react, be healed, dash away, shield, and even regen to survive the encounter. That means that DoTs have to do more total damage than DD, both base and scaling, to be viable. This causes two clear issues where strong; the DoT mage will always bully in the early game and will always be less effective in group fighting. When weak however, the DoT mage isnt worth the roster spot. > > Another problem is CD scaling. DoTs penalize players for reapplying too early (the DPS loss and mana drain). That means that they generally need higher CD's to prevent this from happening. This often leads to situations where the DoT mage cannot cast anything, all spells on CD or waiting for spells to finish there duration. "Well in group fights they cant DoT multiple targets," true, but it takes time to set up and large scale fights in LoL are hard to micro manage (think TF card counting but on roids). > > If you go another direction and keep Cass' two poisons but make Twin Fang apply a different on hit effect depending on which poison is applied, she becomes cool right? No she becomes Sona and her poisonchord. Way too similar in application and doesnt fit thematically. > > I do not know which direction the design team should go. This is a hard one to tackle in regards to keeping her fan base happy and allowing her to be healthy for the game. If I am being asked, the one thing I would not change at all is her ult. It is amazing at all stages of the game, is a huge powespike (as ults should be), and is effective in both team fights and solo. Sigh, Ive posted too late.... the new view punishes people who dont reply the first day. How sad
: Amumu is one of the highest damage tanks , with arguably the most reliable/hugely impactful ultimates in the game. Balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=N4ykzHc0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-26T21:47:12.718+0000) > > Amumu is one of the highest damage tanks , with arguably the most reliable/hugely impactful ultimates in the game. > > Balanced. Zed is one of the highest damage assassins in the game, with arguably the most reliable engages/disengages in the game. Balanced
: Cassiopeia Twin Fang expectations
I like Cass. I enjoy her current kit and play though its not really viable because too much power is loaded into her passive and E. Her ult is a game changer. I like the theme of a Gorgon Poison Mage. I am incredibly concerned about Cass being even more about poison. Why? Because DoT is problematic in games. When even in raw damage, it is always a worse option than upfront damage. DoTs give more time to react, be healed, dash away, shield, and even regen to survive the encounter. That means that DoTs have to do more total damage than DD, both base and scaling, to be viable. This causes two clear issues where strong; the DoT mage will always bully in the early game and will always be less effective in group fighting. When weak however, the DoT mage isnt worth the roster spot. Another problem is CD scaling. DoTs penalize players for reapplying too early (the DPS loss and mana drain). That means that they generally need higher CD's to prevent this from happening. This often leads to situations where the DoT mage cannot cast anything, all spells on CD or waiting for spells to finish there duration. "Well in group fights they cant DoT multiple targets," true, but it takes time to set up and large scale fights in LoL are hard to micro manage (think TF card counting but on roids). If you go another direction and keep Cass' two poisons but make Twin Fang apply a different on hit effect depending on which poison is applied, she becomes cool right? No she becomes Sona and her poisonchord. Way too similar in application and doesnt fit thematically. I do not know which direction the design team should go. This is a hard one to tackle in regards to keeping her fan base happy and allowing her to be healthy for the game. If I am being asked, the one thing I would not change at all is her ult. It is amazing at all stages of the game, is a huge powespike (as ults should be), and is effective in both team fights and solo.
: This is trash tier logic Why does Ryze have such a low winrate then huh?
Because you are punished for using Ryze unless you have incredibly fast fingers and an incredibly low ping.
: Her ultimate is for taking down targets who escaped with very low health. You only really want to use it after the enemy has escaped your AA range and you can't catch back up. While you lose a small amount of damage placing the trap to follow up CC, it keeps them in place longer which can reduce the damage they deal and prevent them from escaping you and your team.
I mean that all sounds great on paper but there is a reason you never see anyone do that in game... Its never the right play. Its theory-crafting but winds up being a bad decision overall. Her ult is outdated and the ult Jhin just got is the one Cait wish she had
: The 1.1s arm time isn't an issue if you use them to follow-up CC. By the time the CC ends, the trap will be armed and catch them. While they are easy to avoid individually, it can be difficult to avoid 3-5 traps blocking off a lane near a tower (which takes up much of a lane by itself) or in a thin jungle route. Even if they can path around them, it makes it far harder for them to avoid skillshots and their pathing far more predictable.
You do realize that placing a trap cancels your AA and therefore means you do less damage and are immobile during a fight? Its almost always a worse decision to try and "follow up CC" a target than it is to continue to attack. Thats also the problem with her ult
Lapis (OCE)
: Chuck em in the bushes when you're laning. If a pesky support tries to get the drop on you, headshot them as a deterrance.
You do realized that no matter where in a bush a trap is placed it can be avoided, right? Thats how small the activation radius is
: They are useful for zoning and sieging. If anyone steps on one when your team is nearby, they are going to take a significant amount of damage.
Yes, in theory The problem is that the activation radius for Snap Traps is so small that enemies barely have to alter their path to avoid them. A champion has to just about walk directly over the middle of the trap to be caught. Not to mention 1.1 seconds in the heat of a battle is a long time to be able to avoid being caught. PS just saw Jhins traps and cried
: they are just there to lane bully honestly and some vision too.
and yet they are ineffective at both
Comentários de Rioters
BroLane (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Miirik,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=1cKfcriM,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-12-24T13:35:58.872+0000) > brand has stupid damage on top of this, like really stupid damage. That's all he has though, other than an unreliable stun.
> [{quoted}](name=Silver4th,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=1cKfcriM,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-12-24T15:26:08.524+0000) > > That's all he has though, other than an unreliable stun. I think you mean "conditional" stun. It is 100%reliable when you meet the conditions which are pretty reliable and often easy to execute.
: Tahm is not better than Skarner at what Skarner does. Tahm can do a mediocre job at what Skarner does as well as doing other things (like eating allies). Tahm is picked more than Skarner mostly because of those other things and a bit because he can do a passable job of what Skarner does. >You lose for targeting Tahm and you lose for not targeting him That is how tanks work. Tahm is like Mundo, if you don't do something about him he kills you but if you do you will use resources that could be better spent. Is Tahm over his power budget? Yes, but it isn't because of his similarities to Skarner.
> [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-12T19:24:29.321+0000) > > Tahm is not better than Skarner at what Skarner does. Tahm can do a mediocre job at what Skarner does as well as doing other things (like eating allies). Tahm is picked more than Skarner mostly because of those other things and a bit because he can do a passable job of what Skarner does. > This is going around in circles. Tahm is always a better choice than Skarner. Regardless of whether or not you think their kits are more similar or disimilar does not change the fact that Tahm effectively replaces Skarner on the Fields of justice. > [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-12T19:24:29.321+0000) > >That is how tanks work. Tahm is like Mundo, if you don't do something about him he kills you but if you do you will use resources that could be better spent. > That is NOT how tanks work. If one team focuses a tank they will lose because the enemy ADC and APC will kill all the squishier targets until all that is left is support and/or tank, wining the team fight. The tanks job is to be tanky enough to not be worth attacking and either have a strong initiation or peel for ADC's and APC's to rack up kills. This is how Nautilus, Leona, Rammus, Thresh, Malphite, Amumu, etc work. Mundo is a slightly different animal. Mundo lacks strong initiation and only has single target peel that isnt the best. He also only has one ability to peel with and does not have any hard CC. Due to his passive and ultimate, Mundo is extremely difficult to kill. His damage is not overwhelming but because of how long he stays in fights and his ability to quickly reengage in fights it seems higher than it is. What Mundo does have that other tanks do not is a spamable, infinite resource, medium range poke. If you focus Mundo in a team fight you will lose and he cannot keep you from reaching his carries. Tahm, however, is too much both a tank and a carry. You cant focus him in a team fight because he will always build tank and has two health bars. You cant ignore him because his base damage is very high. You also cant ignore him because he will deny kills on his carries. What you are left with is an unfavorable option either way. Its not that you cannot win a teamfight against Tahm, you can. Its that both ignoring him and focusing him feel like bad choices.
: > [{quoted}](name=GleamingTheMeta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-09T00:23:56.243+0000) > > Built in free damage is unbalanced. Built in free tankiness is unbalanced. Both on the same champion on low cooldowns is oppressive. Please dont hear us, ACTUALLY LISTEN! You know sejuani has both of those,right? "Free tankiness"-her passive,"Free damage"-part of her w damage scales with her own hp. It's only "Free" when you are over your power budget,something kench is but sejuani isn't,people should stop throwing the word "free" around constantly,just because some champions exceed their power budget. This is the only thing I don't like about your post,though I would probably bash riot's new definition of strength(strength=winrate,lol) some more.
> [{quoted}](name=manbearswine,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2015-12-10T12:40:27.375+0000) > > You know sejuani has both of those,right? > > "Free tankiness"-her passive,"Free damage"-part of her w damage scales with her own hp. > > It's only "Free" when you are over your power budget,something kench is but sejuani isn't,people should stop throwing the word "free" around constantly,just because some champions exceed their power budget. > > This is the only thing I don't like about your post,though I would probably bash riot's new definition of strength(strength=winrate,lol) some more. I think it depends on how you read free... Tahms whole kit rewards building tanky with damage and thats a problem. Its why Rivens AD scaling shield is a problem because it rewards building glass cannon with tankiness. When those cases are outliers then the bonus becomes "free" because it shouldnt exist. Tahm should not deal insane damage because he builds all defensive items and he does. That stupid ult giving every ability and his autos health scaling damage is too powerful and thats true even if you remove the active. Combine that with a W that eats 1/5 to 1/3 or your max health regardless of how he builds. Its a lot of extra baked in damage. You dont like the word "free" fine, its still over what a champions power budget should be
delonix (NA)
: I'm not arguing that because an ability is a skillshot it shouldn't be evaluated. I'm not actually making any argument in the part of the post you quoted. I'm just asking you to explain something from the original post. To me, you putting "(lie)" at the end of a quote that's taken at least a little out of context (Zenon literally prefaces this assertion with "Against most of our roster,"), requires some sort of explanation of why you think that quote isn't true and, preferably, why you think Zenon knows it isn't true. The argument in the rest of my comment is that you make wild claims like "Tahm does not have the tools to get to an enemy and stick to them (lie)" without backing it up with logical analysis or data.
> [{quoted}](name=delonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2015-12-12T05:02:10.165+0000) > > I'm not arguing that because an ability is a skillshot it shouldn't be evaluated. I'm not actually making any argument in the part of the post you quoted. I'm just asking you to explain something from the original post. > > To me, you putting "(lie)" at the end of a quote that's taken at least a little out of context (Zenon literally prefaces this assertion with "Against most of our roster,"), requires some sort of explanation of why you think that quote isn't true and, preferably, why you think Zenon knows it isn't true. > > The argument in the rest of my comment is that you make wild claims like "Tahm does not have the tools to get to an enemy and stick to them (lie)" without backing it up with logical analysis or data. Other than actually playing against him what evidence do I need? OK... Tahm has a short CD (lets say 4 secs @ 30% cdr) 800 range 70% slow. Tahm isnt slow himself being in the middle tier of base movement speed. Even at max range Tahm will be able to almost be in melee range after 1 max range Q. If not the the second Q does put you in melee range. With only 1 dash most champions will not be able to escape and can be kept in melee range indefinitely. You will argue that the opponent is not permanently slowed, however they still never escape. Thats stickiness. And with decent CDR *which Tahm builds) you can easily Q multiple times or NOM NOM NOM someone if you fear them escaping. Dont forget the Q's turn into 1.5 seconds stuns as well. Is it 100% full proof no one escapes? Of course not, but Skarner had the same conditions and was nerfed because it was deemed "toxic" by Riot. Now hyper mobile champions like Riven or Lee Sin wont have a problem escaping in most cases, but they do that against everyone. That doesnt mean Tahm does not have stickiness.... and if a champion is immobile, then they dont have a choice but to engage in a fight they probably wont win because of the high base damage and health scaling on abilities. So whats the lie? "Against most of our roster" is the lie. Purely anecdotal and not supported by in game data and experience. You do not want to engage as a melee and he can poke you as ranged
: > These are huge numbers for a "support" though Riot has stated they wanted him to access multiple roles (unlike Taric, Raka, Sona, etc. who have been repeatedly nerfed whenever they saw other positions). In Riot's defense, there's very good reason why these champs have been relegated to support. If they actually had powerful ratios (or adequate mana costs for a solo lane, decent base stats, etc.), laning against them would be _hell_. They would be incredibly frustrating to play against and would be no fun at all. It's either nerf these champions and put them bot lane, or leave them in the unbalanced purgatory that Poppy just escaped and where Yorick still remains. Tahm's kit is much more dynamic and has more of those "design levers" Riot mentions from time to time. It also has counterplay; if you're playing top, don't let Tahm stack on you for the Devour. His stickiness is pretty absurd...when he has huge amounts of CDR. That takes time to build, man. He doesn't have a 3.6s Q CD level one, or even by level 11. He's slow enough that jungle Tahm's ganks aren't OP. He can cover this weakness if he finishes Deadman's Plate and builds Swiftys or Mobis...around, what, 18-20 minutes, if he's doing well? I agree that Zenon's post was overly patronizing. But not _everything_ he said was bullshit.
Its not that everything that Zenon said was bullshit, its that everything he said was dismissive of valid complaints while defending Riots decision to not do anything at all. He admits Tahm being in the top 3 as a banned champion but then justifies not actually nerfing him. Zennon actually says half-assed answers like we may do this, we may do that, if thats the direction we decided to go, its not power level its frustration level, blah blah blah Oh and are you actually trying to suggest that in addition to Tahm having a "dynamic" kit (two health bars and an ally suppress?) his counterplay is dont let him hit you, ever! Thats not counterplay. What is any melee champion supposed to do in top lane then if he can never engage, ever. Oh and Tahm is in the middle tier of base movement speed, he isnt fast but he isnt slow either. Id say an 800 range 70% slow helps close the gap pretty well (i know just dodge it just like the pro's who never get hit with skill shots). Tahm also scales very well along with have high base damage; his ratios are just as good as any of the supports I mentioned. At level 6 every auto attack and every ability does an additional 20 + 4% bonus health damage. Even with only a ruby giants belt thats another 35 damage to everything Tahm does. Thats without building anything offensive while becoming a lot tankier. Thats the problem.
delonix (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=GleamingTheMeta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-09T00:23:56.243+0000) > > Tahm has been dominating the Fields of Justice since inception; being almost 100% pick or ban in competitive play, boasting a 53% win rate, a 51% ban rate, and is in the top 3 of most banned champions. I think this statement is more questionable than anything ZenontheStoic said. Tahm certainly has not been "dominating the Fields of Justice since inception," and the stats the follow are either misleading or flat-out wrong. Tahm had 45% pick/ban at Worlds, 47% win rate in Plat+ ranked games pre-5.22 (as support and as top), and he only recently joined the top 3 most banned. What tools, specifically, do you think Tahm has to "get to an enemy and stick to them?" Waddle in their direction if he hits a skill shot slow? Pray they stand in melee range (recently nerfed btw) long enough for him to stun/devour them? If Zenon's post is "typical girlfriend tactics," then your post is typical politician tactics. You aren't making any real arguments, let alone good arguments. You're just drawing on people's fear that Riot has some sort of secret agenda to keep certain champions in power and attacking the Rioter who bothered to try to engage the community about Tahm while complaining that Riot doesn't "listen."
> [{quoted}](name=delonix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-12-09T20:43:37.116+0000) > > "What tools, specifically, do you think Tahm has to "get to an enemy and stick to them?" Waddle in their direction if he hits a skill shot slow? Pray they stand in melee range (recently nerfed btw) long enough for him to stun/devour them?." If this argument actually applied to the game at all then no skill shot would land and no one without a gap closer would ever get in melee range. I know, I know... just pink ward
: Tahm's major power does not come from his similarity to Skarner. His ability to nope an ally out of bad situations is the real problem (in my opinion) and Zenon stated that they are looking into that. Tahm is not as effective as Skarner was at what Skarner did. The problem is that Tahm combines being decent at what Skarner did with the other parts of his kit to make him a bigger nuisance.
"not as effective.... at what skarner did" "decent at what Skarner did" So while I understand you dont think think he plays like Skarner does but you admit he can act in a similar way... if Tahm is always pucked and Skarner is not and they can fill a comparable role then Tahm is better at what Skarner does While "noping" an ally is incredibly unsatisfying for the enemy team, and it is because their is no counterplay to it, its Tahms immense free damage while not building any damage items that makes him so overbearing. It allows him to build tanky and still be a primary target because of the damage he can output and the disruption he causes while the enemy team attempts to take out the carries. You lose for targeting Tahm and you lose for not targeting him
: technically, on 5.16, Skarner was immensely viable, I don't think anyone would argue that.
How long did it take to nerf Skarner back to obscurity?
: Trist had a VU and a rework. >this is not a debate If this isn't a debate then why are you talking? If this weren't a debate I would state my opinion and you would state your opinion and we would go our separate ways. You responded to my opinion and made this a debate. Tahm is by far not as sticky as Skarner was. Tahm has _either_ a slow or a stun, not both. Tahm has no speed boosts so if he misses his tongue then he can't catch you. Skarner had a pretty substantial speed boost so it was easy for him to go in and he could stick to people even if they had escape tools. In short, yes, I do need proof before I agree with you. Edit: On the topic of reworked champs that are still in pro play there is still GP.
> [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T06:28:36.552+0000) > > Edit: On the topic of reworked champs that are still in pro play there is still GP. That is a very short list GP and Trist are both more VU's. Their kits are almost the same as the original with slight tweaks to fit together more thematically. I.e. GP's ult functions exactly the same the old one only the RNG was removed. Yes the E is a new ability but GPs old E was never used. Karma, Sion, Skarner, etc are reworks. Almost none of their original kits exist and even the new abilities that have similarities with old ones function differently. They are for the majority viewed as entirely new champions.
: Trist had a VU and a rework. >this is not a debate If this isn't a debate then why are you talking? If this weren't a debate I would state my opinion and you would state your opinion and we would go our separate ways. You responded to my opinion and made this a debate. Tahm is by far not as sticky as Skarner was. Tahm has _either_ a slow or a stun, not both. Tahm has no speed boosts so if he misses his tongue then he can't catch you. Skarner had a pretty substantial speed boost so it was easy for him to go in and he could stick to people even if they had escape tools. In short, yes, I do need proof before I agree with you. Edit: On the topic of reworked champs that are still in pro play there is still GP.
> [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T06:28:36.552+0000) > > Trist had a VU and a rework. > > If this isn't a debate then why are you talking? If this weren't a debate I would state my opinion and you would state your opinion and we would go our separate ways. You responded to my opinion and made this a debate. > > Tahm is by far not as sticky as Skarner was. Tahm has _either_ a slow or a stun, not both. Tahm has no speed boosts so if he misses his tongue then he can't catch you. Skarner had a pretty substantial speed boost so it was easy for him to go in and he could stick to people even if they had escape tools. > > In short, yes, I do need proof before I agree with you. > > Edit: On the topic of reworked champs that are still in pro play there is still GP. What isnt for debate is that Tahm is more viable than Skarner ever was. The reason its not debatable is because Tahm has a 100% pick or ban rate in competitive play and Skarner never did. I thought my sentence clearly states that was is not debatable only applies to that sentence and I apologize if I didnt do that. Arguing that Skarner is stickier, Tahm is stickier, or they are equally as sticky is ignoring the heart of the issue. Tahm is clearly more viable while utilizing very similar tactics. And if Skarner was toxic for the game as Riot stated he was then Tahm has to be even more toxic because he is even more effective. Make sense?
: > [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T05:19:46.556+0000) > > If Trist and Gragas don't count as reworks then what does it take to be considered a rework? > > And on the topic of Tahm and Skarner: Skarner actually could keep a slow on you permanently. Tahm actually can't unless he gets a Frozen Mallet. During Skarner's ult you can still take damage and he can do it instantly. Tahm's Devour takes 3 stacks and then makes you untargetable while slowing himself. Skarner has a move speed buff. Tahm is immobile in combat unless he eats his friends. Skarner has AoE damage, Tahm has only single target. > > Why did you think talking about Skarner could be used to show favoritism? Umm Riot called trist a VU not a rework for one... but thats derailing the thread so Im not going to address this again. As far as the Tahm vs Skarner. One complaint about Tahm is his stickiness which is addressed by Riot in the actual post. The reason for Skarner being reworked was because of his stickiness. For all purposes Tahm does his job better than Skarner ever has, this is not a debate, proven by the 100% pick or ban in worlds and competitive play. Thats how it shows favoritism. Skarner was not allowed to be able to stick to an enemy because only champions with escapes could avoid being permantly slowed. Tahm is allowed a 70% slow (stronger than Skarners) and a 1.5 second stun on a 3.6 second CD in addition to a 3 second suppress. Riot ackowledges that some champions cannot avoid this and a permantly locked down until killed. However, they justify this because of this direct quote "Nearly every ADC should be able to kite him, anyone with a mobility tool should be able to opt out of fighting him, and so on. " This exact rule was 100% true for Skarner and even more so considering Skarner had to be in melee range to engage while Tahm can do so at range. Whats even more hilarious is that Skarner was never even a steady pick in competitive play with more limitations than Tahm has now. Do you need more proof or are you just going to argue to argue?
Just to clarify; I chose Skarner as a comparison because they are supposed to fill a similar role. Both are tanky champions with stickiness and the ability to remove a high-priority target from a fight for a brief period of time. One main difference is that Tahm has a clear build path while Skarner did not (ie Tahm builds tanky and still does damage while Skarner had to focus on one or the other). Highlights of the two champions kits: Skarner * steady reapplying 40% slow with high mana constraints, needed to land twice in a short period of time to slow, melee range AoE Low base hybrid damage and low hybrid scaling. * Shield, attack speed, and movement speed buff. 18 second CD. Buffs expire if shield is broken. High mana cost * Linear nuke that had a secondary heal effect if targets were AA afterwards. * 1.75 second suppress with the ability to relocate suppressed target. Suppressed champion can be attacked, healed, etc. Tahm Kench * 800 range single target 70% slow that can conditionally apply a 1.5 second stun. high base magic damage and high AP scaling * Short range conditional suppress that can be used offensive and defensively on both allies, minions, and enemies. 1/3% max health base damage and/or 650 range high base damage with high AP scaling AoE nuke. Those suppressed cannot be targetted, healed, attacked, etc. Short CD * Passively gives Grey Health. 44% heal. Can convert Grey health to a 6 second shield. Effectively gives multiple health bars. * Passively gains bonus magic damage to all attacks and abilities that scales with bonus health. TF ult for Tahm and an ally Both are single target lockdown champions. Tahm is rewarded by building health/tankiness on multiple abilities, increasing both tankiness and damage. Skarner sacrifices damage in order to be tanky or tankiness in order to deal damage. Both suppresses can be better in different situations; Skarners is better at repositioning while Tahms removes an enemy from the fight for a longer period of time. Tahm also has the secondary advantage of being able to save an ally and on a 6 second CD vs 110 seconds. To be fair Tahms is conditional when used offensively on an enemy (though in most situations denying a kill from the enemy team on a target they used their CD's on is the better option). Skarner has a shorter ranged, less potent, conditional slow that can hit multiple targets in a small area. Tahm is allowed to dominate while Skarner begs to be viable. Do you better understand the comparison now? Do you see how it shows bias towards one champion over the other? Skarner players had a rework forced upon them because what he was able to do, specifically permaslow, was deemed to be toxic. Tahm does the exact same thing pre-rework Skarner does, only better, and is deemed healthy.
: If Trist and Gragas don't count as reworks then what does it take to be considered a rework? And on the topic of Tahm and Skarner: Skarner actually could keep a slow on you permanently. Tahm actually can't unless he gets a Frozen Mallet. During Skarner's ult you can still take damage and he can do it instantly. Tahm's Devour takes 3 stacks and then makes you untargetable while slowing himself. Skarner has a move speed buff. Tahm is immobile in combat unless he eats his friends. Skarner has AoE damage, Tahm has only single target. Why did you think talking about Skarner could be used to show favoritism?
> [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T05:19:46.556+0000) > > If Trist and Gragas don't count as reworks then what does it take to be considered a rework? > > And on the topic of Tahm and Skarner: Skarner actually could keep a slow on you permanently. Tahm actually can't unless he gets a Frozen Mallet. During Skarner's ult you can still take damage and he can do it instantly. Tahm's Devour takes 3 stacks and then makes you untargetable while slowing himself. Skarner has a move speed buff. Tahm is immobile in combat unless he eats his friends. Skarner has AoE damage, Tahm has only single target. > > Why did you think talking about Skarner could be used to show favoritism? Umm Riot called trist a VU not a rework for one... but thats derailing the thread so Im not going to address this again. As far as the Tahm vs Skarner. One complaint about Tahm is his stickiness which is addressed by Riot in the actual post. The reason for Skarner being reworked was because of his stickiness. For all purposes Tahm does his job better than Skarner ever has, this is not a debate, proven by the 100% pick or ban in worlds and competitive play. Thats how it shows favoritism. Skarner was not allowed to be able to stick to an enemy because only champions with escapes could avoid being permantly slowed. Tahm is allowed a 70% slow (stronger than Skarners) and a 1.5 second stun on a 3.6 second CD in addition to a 3 second suppress. Riot ackowledges that some champions cannot avoid this and a permantly locked down until killed. However, they justify this because of this direct quote "Nearly every ADC should be able to kite him, anyone with a mobility tool should be able to opt out of fighting him, and so on. " This exact rule was 100% true for Skarner and even more so considering Skarner had to be in melee range to engage while Tahm can do so at range. Whats even more hilarious is that Skarner was never even a steady pick in competitive play with more limitations than Tahm has now. Do you need more proof or are you just going to argue to argue?
: >(not one reworked champion has been allowed to stay in, and in some cases even reach, competitive play) Heard of Gragas or Tristana? For the most part I simply disagree with you: Zenon was not being rude or condescending with his comments and was not showing favoritism.
> [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQKipeAy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-09T03:37:52.384+0000) > > Heard of Gragas or Tristana? > > For the most part I simply disagree with you: Zenon was not being rude or condescending with his comments and was not showing favoritism. 1) Tristana was more of a visual update with only slight changes to her E and some scaling modifications. She was also always viable. 2) Gragas has basically the same kit as before with some minor scaling differences. Not really a rework either. As for not showing favoritism Ill mention one thing; the Skarner rework. Skarner's stickiness functioned almost identically to what Tahms does now, with additional limitations (less range, less suppression, higher mana restrictions, and much less baked in damage) and he was reworked because "perma slows are toxic" according to Riot. Well Tahm can permaslow you, and kill you, and have two health bars, modified Skarner ult on a 6 second CD, and can ult into a fight from halfway across the map to secure kills. What was that about favorites? Oh and Skarner just got another nerf to his ult despite being less played than Tahm...
: Yes Riot, you hear us...
I think what is more sad is that people keep feeding them money... I wonder what for
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: [NEW] Having issues Patching 5.23? Click Here!
Since the same issues are happening again with the updated 5.23 patch I think its pretty safe to assume this is an issue created by the patch and not something the individual has done. Riot should really focus its attention on the patch and FIXING IT, not blaming the community for it not working. Honestly, it took 4 days for me to figure out a way to get the patch to install properly (ive never had an issue patching before) and now, after 1 full day of playing, I have to figure out another way because your patch update has the same issue. What the actual F*ck Rito? Can we have more than 1 lame rep focus their efforts on this problem? "send a ticket" is not a fix. Your customer service is more frustrating than it is helpful

GleamingTheMeta

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