Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 15
I've read about an issue on the League subreddit about demotion shielding not working, do you know if this is a bug and if so the time line for fixing?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 11
Hey Meddler, I've asked you a question about Wukong before, and just wanted to follow up based on the changes! It seems like he'll be experiencing some indirect nerfs, at least in the jungle (blue smite nerf as well as jungle camp nerf to his early game, tiamat gold increase in the previous patch). Just wondering if the team is keeping an eye out on him or if there are any current plans for him (AD ratio to rank 1 Q, new passive, etc). He already suffers from a very weak early game, and was just wondering if there are any plans for him. Thanks!
: 4 Months Since Meddler Admitted Wukong was Over-Nerfed
His compensation buff was 8% bonus attack speed. Wasn't nearly enough, I think his Q should've been given an AD ratio if it's going to do 10 damage... But that was their way of addressing his nerfs...
AzuBK (NA)
: I haven't given Decoy much depth of thought, so there may be something I'm missing, but I think it's a bit different in that it's a more mandatory part of Wukong's combat pattern. He is encouraged to cast it aggressively, because his trading pattern as a melee champion with no other disengage or mitigation makes it very valuable, so there's no need to take the somewhat unconventional step of making it free so that he feels like he should cast the spell (which was required for Neeko). It's still possible that there are enough reasons that it might make sense as a free/very low cost spell, but that would certainly come at a some cost to his other abilities or the actual output of Decoy. To sum it up: it might make sense, but at face value I don't think the final changelist would make Wukong a meaningfully better champion, because he'd still play very similarly but with some values shifted around (could be wrong here). For Neeko, it was super important because players felt like using her most unique spell in lane was the wrong choice, and removing its cost made that no longer true. Additionally, she's just very difficult to gank when her W is available, so there's value in prompting her to put it on cooldown for reasons aside from escaping.
> [{quoted}](name=AzuBK,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EmjGouud,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T21:01:23.896+0000) > > I haven't given Decoy much depth of thought, so there may be something I'm missing, but I think it's a bit different in that it's a more mandatory part of Wukong's combat pattern. He is encouraged to cast it aggressively, because his trading pattern as a melee champion with no other disengage or mitigation makes it very valuable, so there's no need to take the somewhat unconventional step of making it free so that he feels like he should cast the spell (which was required for Neeko). It's still possible that there are enough reasons that it might make sense as a free/very low cost spell, but that would certainly come at a some cost to his other abilities or the actual output of Decoy. > > To sum it up: it might make sense, but at face value I don't think the final changelist would make Wukong a meaningfully better champion, because he'd still play very similarly but with some values shifted around (could be wrong here). For Neeko, it was super important because players felt like using her most unique spell in lane was the wrong choice, and removing its cost made that no longer true. Additionally, she's just very difficult to gank when her W is available, so there's value in prompting her to put it on cooldown for reasons aside from escaping. Ah ok! That's a really good response, thank you for that. I only used Decoy as an example because it's one of the more comparable abilities that I am familiar with. I know they are two different abilities on two separate champions, but was just wondering for consistency sake for ability type, if that makes sense. If I got it right, removing the cost on Decoy wouldn't change his combat pattern (at least in lane) as much as it would for Neeko. Giving her a no cost ability affected her play style in lane, rather than just making her mana management easier - got it. Once again thanks for the response, I was wondering about that so its great to get an answer.
AzuBK (NA)
: Hey, I can field this one because I happened to suggest it to SolCrushed late in Neeko development. W has minimal combat benefit during lane, so using it offensively when it had a mana cost was usually negative value—that mana could go to waveclear or poke instead (you would mostly only press W when you were getting ganked). W is also pretty hard to use effectively and takes some learning, so it was important that she want to use it frequently in lane in order to get practice on the ability in a non-life-or-death settings. Removing the mana cost and moving that cost to Q/E meant that Neeko players are encouraged to try and trick people with her W in lane as much as possible (using it to set up tricky E angles especially), giving players way more practice both with and against the spell and offering a different laning experience from the more standard mage pattern.
> [{quoted}](name=AzuBK,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EmjGouud,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T19:28:08.424+0000) > > Hey, I can field this one because I happened to suggest it to SolCrushed late in Neeko development. W has minimal combat benefit during lane, so using it offensively when it had a mana cost was usually negative value—that mana could go to waveclear or poke instead (you would mostly only press W when you were getting ganked). W is also pretty hard to use effectively and takes some learning, so it was important that she want to use it frequently in lane in order to get practice on the ability in a non-life-or-death settings. Removing the mana cost and moving that cost to Q/E meant that Neeko players are encouraged to try and trick people with her W in lane as much as possible (using it to set up tricky E angles especially), giving players way more practice both with and against the spell and offering a different laning experience from the more standard mage pattern. Ok cool, thanks for your answer. So how I understand the rationale is that if this ability had a mana cost, it'd be used primarily to get away from ganks during the laning phase, rather than a "deception" tool on her enemies. I guess the way I saw it in my head, was Neeko is getting a free engage/disengage, with multiple benefits at no cost other than a cooldown - I thought this was a bit odd but the way you explained it makes sense. I guess that brings me to my next question, if you're able to answer, about other abilities in the game that have a similar purpose (albeit a different effect), such as Decoy. I'm only asking because I feel like the Decoy ability is similar in numerous ways, but still costs mana which would affect waveclear and timing on when the ability can be used to deceive an opponent. Once again, thanks for your answer! I appreciate it and it definitely helps understand why this was done.
Meddler (NA)
: Reception seems pretty positive and some of the deception play seems to be working as hoped. Looks like she's probably noticeably too strong. Going to assess on Monday after both Neeko players and their opponents have had a bit more time to adapt, see what changes look appropriate.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EmjGouud,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-12-07T17:04:11.232+0000) > > Reception seems pretty positive and some of the deception play seems to be working as hoped. > > Looks like she's probably noticeably too strong. Going to assess on Monday after both Neeko players and their opponents have had a bit more time to adapt, see what changes look appropriate. Hi Meddler, Just piggy backing off this, I actually have a quick question about her kit. I noticed that her Shapesplitter ability cost no mana; what is the rationale behind this? Although it is short lived, she gains bonus magic damage, movement speed, invisibility and has a controllable clone. For comparison, both Wukong's Decoy (stand still clone and magic damage) and Pyke's Ghostwater Dive (camoflauge and movement speed) both cost mana. I understand LeBlanc's clone cost no mana, but its also located on her passive. Just wanted to know the rationale behind the no cost for this ability. Thanks
Meddler (NA)
: Yeah, from memory his performance top is noticeably weaker than mid/jungle. We're not trying to push him into any of those positions specifically, just looks at this point like his kit's better suited to mid and jungle than top based off how the game and his playstyles have evolved.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=aIL8lE5J,comment-id=0023000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-26T16:59:30.659+0000) > > Yeah, from memory his performance top is noticeably weaker than mid/jungle. We're not trying to push him into any of those positions specifically, just looks at this point like his kit's better suited to mid and jungle than top based off how the game and his playstyles have evolved. I checked some stats on u.gg (unsure the reliability) and you're definitely right, just seems like he isn't played mid very much, as its his lowest position for playrate. I actually wanted to try him mid, so this is good to know. Thanks for all the responses!
Meddler (NA)
: Wukong's design means his performance tends to fall off somewhat with MMR, 'one shot' builds somewhat excepted. Those builds tend to be pretty degenerate in terms of lack of counterplay if they're really strong though, as was the case with Wukong earlier this year. In terms of raw performance, I think he's somewhere between about right and on the strong side right now in most skill ranges for both jungle and mid performance. He has certainly been a difficult champion to put in a spot where he's balanced and Wukong players report him feeling good to play. In terms of lack of response I did end up skipping a number of Wukong posts here for a little while. Issue there for me wasn't most of the posts themselves, but the brigading leading to anyone else trying to talk as well getting downvoted and/or drowned out. Really don't want to encourage that approach, given boards upvote/downvote numbers are comparatively low so even a small group can manipulate them heavily.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=aIL8lE5J,comment-id=00230000,timestamp=2018-10-26T16:41:29.364+0000) > > Wukong's design means his performance tends to fall off somewhat with MMR, 'one shot' builds somewhat excepted. Those builds tend to be pretty degenerate in terms of lack of counterplay if they're really strong though, as was the case with Wukong earlier this year. > > In terms of raw performance, I think he's somewhere between about right and on the strong side right now in most skill ranges for both jungle and mid performance. He has certainly been a difficult champion to put in a spot where he's balanced and Wukong players report him feeling good to play. > > In terms of lack of response I did end up skipping a number of Wukong posts here for a little while. Issue there for me wasn't most of the posts themselves, but the brigading leading to anyone else trying to talk as well getting downvoted and/or drowned out. Really don't want to encourage that approach, given boards upvote/downvote numbers are comparatively low so even a small group can manipulate them heavily. Thanks a lot for the response, I really appreciate it. I agree that Wukong's state earlier in the year didn't allow for much counterplay, as a lot of champions (especially squishies) could get one shotted out of stealth without being able to function. Thanks for your opinion on his performance. I've played a bit of Wukong in the jungle, and while I'm not high elo, I agree that he feels good to play, other than his rank 1 Q. However I understand that his Q is a big part of what causes his burst to be too high and can see why he'd be difficult to balance, he has a very binary kit. I noticed you did not mention his top performance, do you think Wukong should now be played in jungle / mid more so than jungle / top? I've never played him top or mid, so I'm just curious on where you think he should land. Also, I totally get not answering certain posts which didn't really create a discussion or posts that were unfairly downvoted. Once again, thanks for your response. I don't want to bombard you with too many questions in a single post, but if there's any new plans for him (a new passive, I see the new spear item might be useful on him), that'd be cool to know as well. Thanks Meddler.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 26
Hi Meddler, Any chance you could state your opinion on Wukong's state? Wukong was nerfed pretty hard (Q and E), especially in comparison to the nerfs done to Irelia and Graves. He was given an 8% attack speed buff after that to bring some power back. What are your thoughts in his current state? Was he nerfed so harshly because he is a difficult champion to balance? I think Wukong mains are pretty frustrated, not only because of the nerfs but because of the lack of information / opinion on his state. Check out r/Wukongmains for reference. Thanks. Hope some info on his state can be released soon.
: and once again, Meddler ignored a Wukong suggestion on Quick Gameplay thoughts..
Hey! Was that my question? I've been getting ignored for weeks lol, even though I'm just mostly asking for comments on his state and have given my own opinion on his state. When you see the nerfs being done on other champions (eg Irelia, Graves) vs Wukong's nerfs, it does really seem unfair. They didn't scale him down and then see where he'd end up, he was absolutely gutted from the jump. I wouldn't expect buffs anytime soon... Edit: Woops, sorry, I see you meant your passive suggestion.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 24
Hi Meddler Any thoughts on Wukong's performance? How has he performed after the Q + E nerfs, as well as the 8% attack speed buff? How do you think he performs as a jungler vs top laner? Lastly, any plans for him at all? Thanks.
: This won't lower the amount, this CDR will just help get you to the cap
> [{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=NPBRPjqf,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-10-23T17:42:55.376+0000) > > This won't lower the amount, this CDR will just help get you to the cap Great, thanks. So if you have 30% CDR in items, at level 18 you will have 40% CDR if you choose the rune. If you have 40% in items, it will not lower the cooldowns further. Thanks for the clarification!
: Preseason Dev Update Number 3!
Will the CDR bonus work separate to items? So if you have 40% CDR via items, will the rune page CDR still lower that amount? My guess was it would be a "base" (as in, it reduces cool downs by the abilities' cool down amount excluding items) type CDR that would work regardless of itemization, just wanted to clarify. Thanks!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 19
Can any comments regarding Wukong be addressed? His damage was completely nerfed through the Q and E nerfs. While he was given an 8% attack speed buff, he does have a lot of difficulty, specifically with survival and mana. Can we get an opinion on at least his state? There's been zero word on him since his nerfs, and I think Wukong players at least deserve an opinion or statistics on his performance. Maybe then Wukong mains will calm down on the boards... If he just wasn't ignored, even if it's just to say he's in a balanced state.
: Balance Team expectations VS. reality
Damn Hashinshin's new videos look wild.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 17
Thoughts on Wukong's state? Not asking for buffs or nerfs, just wondering your opinion on him after the initial nerfs and then 8% attack speed buff. In my opinion, his early game feels a little too weak. I think Wukong mains would just like some information on his state, as it's already pretty clear he's not a high priority for a rework or VGU. It feels like since that 8% attack speed buff, there have been no comments or information on his performance, like other champions. Thanks.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 10
Hi Meddler, Would you be able to comment on the state of Wukong? (Not crying for buffs or a rework, would just like to know) I think the Wukong community (/r/wukongmains for example) is extremely frustrated by the nerfs to Wukong, his items (Duskblade and Stormrazor if they choose), and his runes (Electrocute, now DH). I think the community is frustrated for the reason that certain champions, such as Graves and Jax have been able to dominate the jungle for so long. Graves has an extremely strong early game, and is able to clear camps without having to spend 1200 gold on tiamat, while barely losing any health. Jax is a champion who is able to deal high damage while also being tanky. Wukong has a very weak early game, such as a Q that does 10 damage and reduces 10 armor, but costs 40 mana, while having the 7th lowest mana pool in the game. Is there anyway to bring Wukong into a spot where he is able to compete with other junglers without being oppressive? I know he was given an 8% attack speed buff, but do you think this was enough to bring him to a good spot? I know it's easy to look at his win rate and say he's in an OK spot with a 51.62% winrate, but that is with less than a 2% playrate (in the jungle), according to op.gg. While the win rate itself is fine, the play rate doesn't seem to be high enough to be a good indicator of his actual power. For example, according to op.gg, Ivern has a 52.63% winrate in the jungle, although at a .57% playrate. I wouldn't call Ivern a strong champion solely due to his playrate. I think the Wukong community would just like some answers to his state. He feels weak, particularly in the early game (and it seems like a lot of games end before the 20 minute mark). I think the community would like to know the thoughts on his state, if there are any future plans for him, or just statistics as to why he is in a good spot. Thanks.
anraur (EUW)
: Looking for people to learn english
Hey man, just wanted to say this is really cool of you and hope you find someone to play with. Sadly, I'm in NA. Good luck on learning English, I think with your willingness to learn, you'll learn very quickly!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 3
Hi Meddler Is there anyway Wukong can be addressed? As in, can we get an explanation as to why the 8% attack speed buff was seen as enough after such hard nerfs to his Q and E? Thanks.
Maltasar (EUW)
: So Wukong was nerfed because the balance team's philosophy is against [ 1shotting ]
I think making Wukong unable to 1 shot is fine... However, the Q nerfs were too harsh and the attack speed buff was not enough. If they don't want him to be able to one shot, they should increase his tankiness, mana and/or health pool, or give his kit a bit more utility (slow on the clone, heal damage his clone takes, cleave on his Q, etc.) The problem is they nerfed his damage a ton, without giving him anything in return... Except for 8% attack speed, not even to the ratio. This isn't much of a help, with the 7th lowest mana pool in the game and a Q which is a 40 mana auto attack reset. His early game is insanely weak compared to other junglers. Either make him an assassin (and one shot) or increase other areas enough to be a bruiser. Right now, he's bad at both.
: Hey there! No exploration right now. After we slowed down our normal exploration as a result of the rate of change concerns from players, we pivoted the team to focus on preesason and haven't been doing much exploration into other spaces atm. We're likely to pick a few up in a week or two, and we're currently discussing what changes we want to target next year (that are on the larger side)
Hi MapleNectar, Sorry to reply here, but it's one of your most recent replies. Clearly Wukong players are having a tough time with him. His burst damage was nerfed really hard, and his 8% attack speed feels like it didn't bring his damage to a place comparable with other junglers (Graves, Rengar, Jax, most likely Kha'zix). I listened to your interview with Harambe, and I was left with more questions (more so due to the lack of questions Harambe asked you). Do you think sustain damage, regen, a lower mana pool, or tankiness can be added to Wukong to prevent such high burst damage? It was said that he would gain something along these lines, and was given the attack speed buff... Which feels negligible for the nerfs he experienced to his Q and E. As of right now, it feels like Wukong is not "pick worthy" and this is proven by his lack of presence in high elo. Thanks.
: Use U.gg its more reliable.
Just curious, what makes u.gg more reliable? I always hear of people saying their preferred site is more reliable, but I never hear why. I just use lolalytics.com out of preference. I feel like rates are usually close across sites.
: I just checked and lolalytics has Wu win rates in the 50% - 53% ball park when filtered for plat or diamond.
Yes, I acknowledged his 53% winrate. His 53% winrate also comes out at mid, where he is played overall at a .6% play rate. 53% at a .6% rate is a lot different than 52% at a 20% rate. That's why I said, with such a low play rate, is his win rate really indicative of how strong of a champion he is. The sample size is not large enough. It's a lazy way to say that a champion is performing well and doesn't give enough context to his overall performance.
: > [{quoted}](name=Diabeetor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XrxOZ8kF,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-09-26T21:16:32.327+0000) > > So I know this is about Kha'zix, but this brings me to a question I saw on the board also... > > > Why was Wukong nerfed so hard then? He was played competitively (Caps mid) although with a higher winrate (~54% at an 4% play rate vs ~49% at 8% according to lolalytics). His burst was high, but his nerfs completely gutted him and left him out of pro play for sure. He is not a champion that performs well at high elo, as I believe there are currently no Challenger Wukong players in NA. There previously was one, LOL Harambe, who is no longer able to maintain that level elo with the nerfs. Personally think that the difference here is that, if Wukong is seeing competitive play, he's probably completely warping in a solo queue environment. Whereas if Kha'Zix is seeing competitive play, that may not be the same case (depending on what's causing it). That said, Wukong doesn't seem like he's that bad right now. Our internal data shows him at 50%+ WR across top/mid/jungle (peaking 53% in mid).
Thanks for the response. I'm not sure if lolalytics is a reliable source of statistics, especially compared to your internal data. After the nerfs, I believe Wukongs win rate did not change that much, but his play rate halved. When the sample size is so small, is the data as reliable? I'm not saying somebody should be able to pick up a champion and perform well, but if the majority of Wukong players are OTP, is that a fair comparison to a champion with double the play rate? I think win rate is a little tricky for a champion like Wukong, who is played rarely compared to other champions. If Wukong is picked 4% of the time, with a 12% mid lane play rate, is a 53% win rate really indicative of how the champion is performing? I understand his burst was too high, but it was said he'd be buffed in a way to increase tankiness, regen, sustain damage, etc. That resulted in an 8% attack speed buff (not to the ratio), which doesn't seem like enough to pick him over other junglers. But I feel like the reason why he is "bad" now, is because he is worse in multiple aspects compared to other champions, who haven't been addressed. Graves has a 20% play rate with a 52% win rate... That seems a lot more indicative of an over powered champion. I hope this clarifies why I was a bit confused about Wukong. I don't mean to come off as argumentative, I just feel like the Wukong nerfs were way too harsh, especially when compared to other champions. Graves is tankier, has a better early game, and can output a lot of damage. It just feels like since Wukong is hard to balance, he was gutted.
Kazekiba (NA)
: His Q could lose the armor shred and get its ratio back and then revert the E nerfs from the prior patch and Wukong would be in a good spot again. HE was never broken. Electrocute and Sudden Impact being easily applied at level 1 was broken. Having an armor shred amping Electrocute's damage but doing nothing for the rest of his combo added on to how OP he looked, but it wasn't his Qs damage causing the issues. Instead, Riot nerfed his runes AND his kit, twice, in the same patch.
I was thinking the ratio could have been lowered, but your idea might work also. I agree that the runes and items absolutely made his burst damage too high. But nerfing him directly, as well as indirectly, just seemed to absolutely kill him. He performs at such a low level compared to other junglers. I think after the rune and item nerfs, his Q could be given a bit extra power in the ratio and it'd really help his kit.
: Maple Nectar commented on this via Twitter when a player asked a similar question: https://twitter.com/RiotMapleNectar/status/1044664008949690368 It's primarily a pro play focused buff because we felt that Kha'Zix is on the verge of competitive viability with small room to grow in solo queue (he was sitting at 48-49% WR according to our internal data before the buffs). W evolve Kha'Zix (prior to the stint Kha'Zix had with R evolve first earlier this season) has seen play historically and was likely the way to go for a buff to avoid negatively impacting players.
So I know this is about Kha'zix, but this brings me to a question I saw on the board also... Why was Wukong nerfed so hard then? He was played competitively (Caps mid) although with a higher winrate (~54% at an 4% play rate vs ~49% at 8% according to lolalytics). His burst was high, but his nerfs completely gutted him and left him out of pro play for sure. He is not a champion that performs well at high elo, as I believe there are currently no Challenger Wukong players in NA. There previously was one, LOL Harambe, who is no longer able to maintain that level elo with the nerfs.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 26
Can Wukong be addressed? After his harsh nerfs, it was said he would be buffed in the form of sustained damage, tankiness, regen, etc. He was given a 8% attack speed buff, which would help with sustained damage a bit... However, right now, he feels good in very few aspects (late game damage) and bad in a lot of aspects. The "bad" aspects include his mana pool (7th lowest mana with high mana costs), his rank 1 Q doing 10 damage, and his jungle clear prior to tiamat. His passive also does not fit his kit and most effective builds (assassin style). I understand his burst was way too high, but as of right now, it feels like he was nerfed in the only area he was useful - burst damage. If his tankiness was increased so he is less of a glass cannon, his mana was increased / mana costs decreased, or if his Q did more damage (or striked multiple targets like his E), he'd feel like such a more useful champion without blowing up ADCs with no counterplay. To summarize, while the 8% attack speed buff was nice, I don't think it brought Wukong up to a place where he's particularly useful in the jungle. I understand he has a slightly above 50% win rate, but with such a minimal play rate, that sample size doesn't feel like it truly reflects his usefulness. His early game is way too weak as of now, and I think Wukong mains would appreciate if his current state was acknowledged and if there are any plans to make changes to him. It sounded highly unlikely he would get a rework, which is fine. What doesn't seem fine, is how he's worse than almost every other jungler in every area.
: Wukong's Passive Needs a Rework
At a minimum, he needs a new passive. He got gutted, because damage in the ENTIRE game is too high. Wasn't fair to completely gut his damage and give back only %8 attack speed buff, his Q is useless at rank 1. Rengar felt like he could easily one shot, and he got a buff!
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 12
Thoughts on Wukong post nerfs? Has the attack speed buff brought him up to a good enough point? Hard to justify picking him at the moment due to so many junglers being better than him, in my opinion.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 7
Thoughts on Wukong? He was nerfed pretty hard in 8.16, and it was said he'd have some sort of compensation buff, such as sustain. He was given a buff to attack speed, but it doesn't seem like much of a buff, as his ratio did not change. Any thoughts or plans regarding this? I understand his burst may have been too high, but right now he feels too weak. He Q is pretty useless at rank 1 and it costs 40 mana. It just feels like he struggles in the jungle, a position he should be at least decent at. Right now, he doesn't seem pick worthy over many other junglers.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 5
Hi Meddler, thanks for the update. I'm wondering about your thoughts on the state of Wukong. As of right now, Crushing Blow does the damage of an auto attack at rank 1, but costs 40 mana, which seems a bit excessive. He also has a passive that doesn't exactly fit his kit. Is this something that might change in the future? Not speaking about a rework, just a different passive to possibly fit the assassin build and kit he has. I understand the nerf to his burst damage, but it just seems like the auto attack buff wasn't enough, at least for jungle. Thanks!
: Riot mentioned they wanted to make some changes to him in the form of sustain. I'd be fine for that, I just hope it happens soon, like before Season 9 starts. I have been waiting years to see proper Wukong changes. I think the buff on his Q was great for more burst, but its basically a big reason why he is getting shredded now. I would have much more preferred they reverted his S4 nerf on his Q on the armor shred instead of adding a lot more scaling damage. Hopefully they do him some justice soon.
They mentioned they wanted to make changes, and then the attack speed buff came out... That makes me feel like that WAS their change to Wukong, although it wasn't even close to enough. I agree. His Q + items now in the game really caused for a big nerf. But right now, his Q is so awful, a drop in mana cost could help a bit, but not much. I'd be happy with that reverted Q - especially if the mana was reduced.
: Wukong - decrease mana costs
It's painfully obvious that Wukong will be left in the gutter for awhile. Which is weird, because Riot claims he's a popular champion and China and don't want to change him too much (at least when it comes to VGUs). I have no idea what they're going to do with him or what it would take to "fix" him. His burst was too high (as if that's not common with a lot of champions) so he got nerfed, which I understand. What I don't understand is making his Q useless at level 1 and addressing his jungle clear problems with an attack speed buff that doesn't raise the actual ratio. I think the burst damage nerfs are fine, but to nerf him so hard without a meaningful compensation buff makes it seem like they have no idea what to do with him. Lowering mana costs would help, but I think the problem is that people hate to play against his kit and Riot doesn't want to rework his kit due to the fandom in China. So their "best" option is to let him rot. Opposing players don't have to worry about him one shotting and players in China get to keep a favorite champion, even if he sucks.

Guts Man

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