: this is going to be my last answer to you as i alrdy said, you only want to see and believe whatever fits your role as victim. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/yBXTyjAO-dishonorable-to-honor-2-edit-3-12219 here is the post. its btw a comment in this post. a board mod is just a regular player ingame. 3rd party stuff interfere? lol good one. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/aEvTRhKX-my-2-year-long-journey-back-to-honor-level-2 heres my post. all these 100's of posts you find, if you read them you'll realize they are from ppl like you that clearly cant have a normal talk without becoming insulting and then put themselfes into the victim role when they clearly get offensive by just normal talking. im lucky? lol. my post should show you the opposite. as i even said in my post, in those 2 years i myself got triggered many times, falling back down to h0 or h1. but i always climbed back up. i bet my account has the highest amount of punishements without actually being permabanned.
HE LITTERALLY ASKED RIOT TO LOCK HIS HONOR, THAT 100% NEGATES THE EXPERIMENT AND IS 100% ASSISTANCE FROM A 3rd PARTY. Lmfao do you understand how a control or experiment works? we have no idea if his honor lock is the same as people who were placed at honor level 0 from the system. HE ASKED RIOT SUPPORT. That is a corrupt experiment dude. That is exactly what I said THAT IS A 3rd PARTY AKA RIOT SUPPORT. Omg....Research methods and Quantitative methods, these are classes you need to take in college. LMFAO!!! that is a very bias example, his honor wasn't at 0 naturally or from a 2 week suspension and we have no idea what kind of effect that has on the length of time taken to rise up. Think for a second, THE ONLY CASE THAT TOOK UNDER 400 games WAS THE ONE WHERE A MOD ASKED RIOT TO LOCK HIS HONOR.I'm done this is utter stupidity, Lmfao!! also, you took two years and you are much more toxic than I am, I've only been chat restricted 3 times in my 2 years. They just happened at checkpoints 2 EVERY time. I think You should be permabanned, you clearly don't learn your lesson, and now that you have honor level 2 I bet you are JUST AS TOXIC as you were before, but now you get away with it. Please don't compare me to you i'm a saint compared to you, I can tell you go on the offensive and bully people. I go on the defensive because I'm insecure.
: one of the mods alrdy made a very detailed post. it took him 252 games WITHOUT any chatting (basically slowing it down compared to when you chat positive) to get back to h2. and again it took me 4 months. saying fuck isnt a rulebreak. saying fuck you is. "fuck we messed that up" is totally fine "fuck you guys" isnt. also both posts are from before they made climbing to h2 easier. if you just deny what others actually did for real, then theres no point in talking with you. if you wanna stay in your role as victim, then do so. sucks for you but it doesnt bother anyone else. the only one torturing you is your own mind.
First of all, Link the post I can't find it with a mod climbs out of honor level 0 google search. Second you are placing 1 proof against 2, and the proof you are using is of a MOD who could have easily had a 3rd party interfere, It's a bias example you are corrupting your sample size of literally 1. Here are more examples indicating that your example was a 1 off, by the way you didn't even provide me with a link- no proof means you are talking out of your ass. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8kg7cb/as_a_casual_player_i_feel_like_its_impossible_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/bla5ot/climbing_honor_levels_is_really_slow/ https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/GpEUjaEs-has-anyone-climbed-out-of-honor-level-0 https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/FsXyZIey-it-takes-too-long-to-get-out-of-honor-level-0-for-how-easy-it-is-to-be-put-there https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/7jJt2dim-honor-level-0 once again if you want to dispute me, Please use facts. Don't talk out of your ass- it took me 12 seconds and one google search, guess what I googled too? I googled "mod climbs out of honor level 0" like you just said. I can find dozens if not hundreds of posts mitigating your one special case that you appear to have made up. Don't waste my time with illogical and unproven arguments, it does nothing to help people understand the situation and problems > if you just deny what others actually did for real, then theres no point in talking with you. if you wanna stay in your role as victim, then do so. sucks for you but it doesnt bother anyone else. the only one torturing you is your own mind. Looks like you are denying what others go through for real because it doesn't affect you. You're the type of person that says police don't discriminate against people because you are white and a police never messed with you. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it never happened, you are lucky- that's all.
Kei143 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=IGaNkNuBz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZnnATcYc,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-10-19T18:48:07.855+0000) > > I'd like to propose a test, Put my honor back at level 3 or 2 and SEE if i get banned within the next 2 years. > > I Can guarantee I will not get banned, it is 100% because of the honor level 0, any other reasoning is just an excuse. > You can start a new account and test it out :) Also, why not just mute the people harassingyou? Better yet, just turn off your chat.
I never get banned on any smurf I have and my more toxic friends never get banned even though I regularly tell them not to say that or they will get banned. They never do, why because honor level 2+ grants immunity to all but the severest infractions. I wish I knew coding or knew someone who could delve into the source code to prove this theory 100%, but for now all i have are observations based on forum posts, my friends and my experiences. System is broken, a clean account with 0 ban/chat restrictions gets banned once and the account get put on the tightest of leashes, meaning all punishments are not equal; meaning 1 sided abuse / psychological torment is possible. System does not work and promotes toxicity.
: Honor level 0 IS literally psychological torture
Now let's talk about this whole forums deliberate Hypocrisy, If i posted and said "Help I only greifed my teammate once and shot him into the dragons pit and I got a 14 day suspension- THE WHOLE FORUM WOULD BE AGAINST ME SAYING 1 GAME IS ENOUGH. Proof? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/9Qhr4F9U-please-help-me-i-got-banned-for-1-badtitled-game HOWEVER, when I say that someone did it to me and ONLY I was banned, THE WHOLE FORUM LIGHTS UP ABOUT HOW IT's PROBABLY HIS FIRST OFFENSE. Are you guys okay? @Umbral, Can you rationalize this hypocrisy for me? I can find so much wrong with you guys and how you try to defend this broken system with some simple google searches, Before you try to take me on, please do the same.
: You don't seem to have learned your lesson. The real problem here is that you let what other people say affect you so much. Why does it matter? You keep using the word "defend", but do you really need to defend anything? Their words only mean something if you let them. You have all the power you need, and it has nothing to do with the nasty things you say back to other people. You can't control other people. You can only control yourself. Until you learn that, it would be better to stay at level 0 because that seems to be the only way you will behave.
Yeah the solution is simple. You just disable all the chats if you want to play it's not hard. My question is, is it right? And if you don't disable all the chat's and you are NOT a God tier player- YOU WILL BE SUBJECT TO 1 SIDED ABUSE. no doubts about it. IT is psychological torment unless you play like a God or disable all chats. The system does ban on a bias, It is confirmed by umbral even though he tries to make it sound like it isn't.
: theres sooo much wrong in this post... just in the first 2 sections. your honor level isnt linked to what youre allowed to do. your honor level is hidden, noone can see it. -> btw this point is the most important one as it makes your entire thread pointless. your entire thread is basically "Ppl know im honor lv 0 and thus torture me" well they dont know it as only you can see it on your profile. also you can still play the game like normal no matter your honor level. 2 years of honor lv 0? how even? removing the chat from the game wont get you banned, after years riot even made it an option you can use. i dont think riot gives you an option that gets you banned if you use it. the "effect of a report" isnt linked to your honor level either. actually all reports have the same effect. (tho i do have to say it is weird how many times i actually read someone wishing death or rape to family members) actually new accounts are under a harsher reign cause riot knows of toxic smurfs. accs below a certain level get punishements quicker. but yes if you copy your chatlogs to a fresh lv 30 acc, you might not get a punishement CAUSE IT WOULD BE LEGIT YOUR FIRST OFFENSE while your current acc, you seem to be (mildly) toxic on a consistent level (not climbing in honor level for 2 years proves that) i made a post where i came back to honor level 2 in ~ 4 months. and i play between 1-5 games a day. as alrdy said by "jhins girlfriend", saying stuff like this inspires school shooting might be risky in america you know. and also yes, consider getting help. maybe quitting the game is a good option for you. ignoring that old tribunal was slow and many ppl didnt take it serious, it still showed me that the majority agrees: dont be toxic. no matter what. one thing i agree on: the report system could give more insight. its frustrating when you get the feedback messages maybe once every 3-4 months. i wanna see that my reports did something. i also agree on standing up for yourself. but this is online chat. how about you mute the person and thats it? man i rarely type these long comments. and i dont even know why i did i just felt like it i guess. all i can say is: the system works different than you think, use the mute feature, give us more feedback on reports and go harsher when it comes to trolls. <>< edit: stuff id like to add based on your comments: you wanna be put to honor lv 2 as a "test" if you get banned -> make a new account. then you are honor lv 2. again as said by jhins gf, you are not tortured. you can stop and leave at any time without consequences. noone stops you. you are not locked up in a cell getting whipped. id love to play on your acc to show you h0 isnt cursed. but i cant. acc share = ban for real. ps: i wonder if mods delete this thread
you are actually insane, do you know how long it really takes to climb out of honor level 0? I keep getting to checkpoint 2/3 when I get reset to 0 it's infuriating and it's usually over stupidity or me having a bad game and speaking at all. I say fuck, ALOT. I'm an honest person, honest people swear more, it's a fact. Granted there is a profanity filter in this game that everyone seems to ignore and think that cursing should be punished. Seems counter productive to me. Go do some research I mean ACTUAL research, climbing out of honor level 0 is a process that takes a minimum of 400 games. I DON'T PLAY EVERY DAY. 400 games for me, is a year of league. so you sometimes during my year of playing league I fortget that I' ma second class citizen and try to speak like my friends do, and get shot back down to honor level 0 no checkpoints. https://boards.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behaviour-en/4NqMkfgW-my-experiment-from-honor-level-0-to-honor-level-2-is-finally-complete-here-are-the-results https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9ga9vi/im_finally_back_to_honour_level_2_here_are_some/ DO some research, try to tell me that 400 games of an average length of 25 minutes IS FUCKING REASONABLE in the first place, and to be on THAT tight of a lease for 400 games as well? C'mon man don't be delusional- do the math, check the posts It's fucking unreasonable.
: here's a more toxic chat log, but it results from the jhin literally griefing the game- I guarantee this jhin received no action taken against him even though it's clear he intentionally greifed. The chat logs are 1 sided the ff 13 is a joke response to the jhin when we lost rift and he said "the game's over" "gg screw this team" he then proceeds to toss me into dragons pit and kill me which made me hit my wall, and not want to play the fucking game anymore- But I understand you guys never would get angry enough at a game to hit your wall or not want to play- Gamers don't EVER get angry, especially in competitive games. In-Game IGaNkNuBz: sylas jungle got reallly nerfed eh IGaNkNuBz: enemwre r IGaNkNuBz: gg IGaNkNuBz: ff IGaNkNuBz: ff 13 IGaNkNuBz: lmao IGaNkNuBz: ez IGaNkNuBz: j4 top IGaNkNuBz: had 30 sec warning IGaNkNuBz: wtf nas IGaNkNuBz: they just ki9lled you IGaNkNuBz: seems liek they stopped you to me IGaNkNuBz: and htey6 took ur tower IGaNkNuBz: seem pretty stopped IGaNkNuBz: sick IGaNkNuBz: pro IGaNkNuBz: sick shit IGaNkNuBz: k so you're trolling? IGaNkNuBz: report him IGaNkNuBz: thgat shit stupid IGaNkNuBz: jhin IGaNkNuBz: bro IGaNkNuBz: you IGaNkNuBz: outtie IGaNkNuBz: THE FUCK WAS THAT IGaNkNuBz: nto talkignjh shitstain? IGaNkNuBz: .surrendewr IGaNkNuBz: i'm done IGaNkNuBz: my team trolls me IGaNkNuBz: when i'm tring to carry IGaNkNuBz: it's gg IGaNkNuBz: i hit my wall so hard my hand litterally hurts IGaNkNuBz: can't play IGaNkNuBz: fk off IGaNkNuBz: legit troled me IGaNkNuBz: when i was 4/1 IGaNkNuBz: and shot meion dragon's pit IGaNkNuBz: suck my fucking nuts IGaNkNuBz: got watch replay at 154 min IGaNkNuBz: see what happens IGaNkNuBz: and see if oyu not gnna be tilted IGaNkNuBz: out of your mind IGaNkNuBz: report morg/jhin trollinj IGaNkNuBz: legit IGaNkNuBz: shot me into dragons pit IGaNkNuBz: idk ow you thin kit's mart to tilt your teamates IGaNkNuBz: fk off IGaNkNuBz: 1vf1 me for 100$ IGaNkNuBz: right now IGaNkNuBz: you got money? IGaNkNuBz: broke bitches need monet IGaNkNuBz: bet you'd likek that IGaNkNuBz: like how your getting fuck IGaNkNuBz: rigght n]w IGaNkNuBz: idk boys IGaNkNuBz: this shit IGaNkNuBz: when i'm trying hard and carrying you IGaNkNuBz: do this shiut IGaNkNuBz: you 100% deserve to lose IGaNkNuBz: shit fkn attitudes IGaNkNuBz: 1v1 me IGaNkNuBz: and find out IGaNkNuBz: league player IGaNkNuBz: never played dota or hon IGaNkNuBz: ur shit at mobas IGaNkNuBz: proably shit at life IGaNkNuBz: i was 4/1 IGaNkNuBz: till iwas trolled IGaNkNuBz: watch replay IGaNkNuBz: watch IGaNkNuBz: it IGaNkNuBz: and see IGaNkNuBz: you;de be mad too
Once again this type of chat log, especially the Warwick one WOULD NOT RESULT INA BAN FOR ANYONE WHO IS NOT HONOR LVL 0. PRIOR TO THESE GAMES I HAD NOT USED THE CHAT FOR OVER 75 GAMES. This is why i Know, Also prior to being banned I HAD NEVER RECEIVED A CHAT RESTRICTION OR ANYTHING. The system 100% has a bias towards honor level 0 and it has a 0 tolerance which allows for 1 sided abuse and when you are verbally abused and then punished by an authority figure- This is AKIN to psychological torment.
: I'm going to release what caused my latest chat restriction, and hopefully it will help you understand context is important in these situations. Also you can let me know if the people who were flaming/griefing in these games got any sort of type of ban. ME responding back to Warwick is after him literally flaming me for 25 minutes, continuously. the caps thing is me trying to have fun while playing a game- this is said in all chat when we made a small comeback. The cursing is as we lost after we made the comeback, the gg is well gg they played well. IGaNkNuBz: kayne botside IGaNkNuBz: gg mid IGaNkNuBz: yo warick yo on my dick more than your mother IGaNkNuBz: you fucking et caught out every 10 seconds diving stupid fight all game IGaNkNuBz: you litterally can't fucking make rational decisions IGaNkNuBz: who the fuck care's 0/5 you're throwin IGaNkNuBz: litterally can't fucking think IGaNkNuBz: and not split IGaNkNuBz: wtf are u doing again IGaNkNuBz: ww IGaNkNuBz: are u serious? IGaNkNuBz: NEVER SETTLE FOR LSS WE ALWAYS STRIVE OR TBEST IGaNkNuBz: GET ONY MY LEVEL THAT's WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL YALL IGaNkNuBz: FOR REAL IGaNkNuBz: YOU CAN NEVA EVAS IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK SHIT! IGaNkNuBz: SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT , FUCK! IGaNkNuBz: gg
here's a more toxic chat log, but it results from the jhin literally griefing the game- I guarantee this jhin received no action taken against him even though it's clear he intentionally greifed. The chat logs are 1 sided the ff 13 is a joke response to the jhin when we lost rift and he said "the game's over" "gg screw this team" he then proceeds to toss me into dragons pit and kill me which made me hit my wall, and not want to play the fucking game anymore- But I understand you guys never would get angry enough at a game to hit your wall or not want to play- Gamers don't EVER get angry, especially in competitive games. In-Game IGaNkNuBz: sylas jungle got reallly nerfed eh IGaNkNuBz: enemwre r IGaNkNuBz: gg IGaNkNuBz: ff IGaNkNuBz: ff 13 IGaNkNuBz: lmao IGaNkNuBz: ez IGaNkNuBz: j4 top IGaNkNuBz: had 30 sec warning IGaNkNuBz: wtf nas IGaNkNuBz: they just ki9lled you IGaNkNuBz: seems liek they stopped you to me IGaNkNuBz: and htey6 took ur tower IGaNkNuBz: seem pretty stopped IGaNkNuBz: sick IGaNkNuBz: pro IGaNkNuBz: sick shit IGaNkNuBz: k so you're trolling? IGaNkNuBz: report him IGaNkNuBz: thgat shit stupid IGaNkNuBz: jhin IGaNkNuBz: bro IGaNkNuBz: you IGaNkNuBz: outtie IGaNkNuBz: THE FUCK WAS THAT IGaNkNuBz: nto talkignjh shitstain? IGaNkNuBz: .surrendewr IGaNkNuBz: i'm done IGaNkNuBz: my team trolls me IGaNkNuBz: when i'm tring to carry IGaNkNuBz: it's gg IGaNkNuBz: i hit my wall so hard my hand litterally hurts IGaNkNuBz: can't play IGaNkNuBz: fk off IGaNkNuBz: legit troled me IGaNkNuBz: when i was 4/1 IGaNkNuBz: and shot meion dragon's pit IGaNkNuBz: suck my fucking nuts IGaNkNuBz: got watch replay at 154 min IGaNkNuBz: see what happens IGaNkNuBz: and see if oyu not gnna be tilted IGaNkNuBz: out of your mind IGaNkNuBz: report morg/jhin trollinj IGaNkNuBz: legit IGaNkNuBz: shot me into dragons pit IGaNkNuBz: idk ow you thin kit's mart to tilt your teamates IGaNkNuBz: fk off IGaNkNuBz: 1vf1 me for 100$ IGaNkNuBz: right now IGaNkNuBz: you got money? IGaNkNuBz: broke bitches need monet IGaNkNuBz: bet you'd likek that IGaNkNuBz: like how your getting fuck IGaNkNuBz: rigght n]w IGaNkNuBz: idk boys IGaNkNuBz: this shit IGaNkNuBz: when i'm trying hard and carrying you IGaNkNuBz: do this shiut IGaNkNuBz: you 100% deserve to lose IGaNkNuBz: shit fkn attitudes IGaNkNuBz: 1v1 me IGaNkNuBz: and find out IGaNkNuBz: league player IGaNkNuBz: never played dota or hon IGaNkNuBz: ur shit at mobas IGaNkNuBz: proably shit at life IGaNkNuBz: i was 4/1 IGaNkNuBz: till iwas trolled IGaNkNuBz: watch replay IGaNkNuBz: watch IGaNkNuBz: it IGaNkNuBz: and see IGaNkNuBz: you;de be mad too
: Honor level 0 IS literally psychological torture
I'm going to release what caused my latest chat restriction, and hopefully it will help you understand context is important in these situations. Also you can let me know if the people who were flaming/griefing in these games got any sort of type of ban. ME responding back to Warwick is after him literally flaming me for 25 minutes, continuously. the caps thing is me trying to have fun while playing a game- this is said in all chat when we made a small comeback. The cursing is as we lost after we made the comeback, the gg is well gg they played well. IGaNkNuBz: kayne botside IGaNkNuBz: gg mid IGaNkNuBz: yo warick yo on my dick more than your mother IGaNkNuBz: you fucking et caught out every 10 seconds diving stupid fight all game IGaNkNuBz: you litterally can't fucking make rational decisions IGaNkNuBz: who the fuck care's 0/5 you're throwin IGaNkNuBz: litterally can't fucking think IGaNkNuBz: and not split IGaNkNuBz: wtf are u doing again IGaNkNuBz: ww IGaNkNuBz: are u serious? IGaNkNuBz: NEVER SETTLE FOR LSS WE ALWAYS STRIVE OR TBEST IGaNkNuBz: GET ONY MY LEVEL THAT's WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL YALL IGaNkNuBz: FOR REAL IGaNkNuBz: YOU CAN NEVA EVAS IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA NEVA EVA IGaNkNuBz: FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK SHIT! IGaNkNuBz: SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT , FUCK! IGaNkNuBz: gg
: Honor level 0 IS literally psychological torture
I'd like to propose a test, Put my honor back at level 3 or 2 and SEE if i get banned within the next 2 years. I Can guarantee I will not get banned, it is 100% because of the honor level 0, any other reasoning is just an excuse. Before I got my 2 week suspension, I had never been banned. Suddenly I am banned for everything anytime I USE the chat. There is a definitely a correlation between honor level 0 and chat restrictions. I challenge people to play on my account, and even lightly disagree with anyone in my games- It's A BAN.
Raigarak (NA)
: ***
That's why, It is supposed to be a competitive game and I give good feedback and instructions as well as attempt to call shots- for me having to play this game with 0 interaction with my team is akin to lowering my win %. It is a competitive game, people do get emotional. for Riot to completely ignore that seems ridiculous. People get competitive in sports LoL, is an Esport, I'd rather respond to someone who is harassing me, end the harassment and then get on with the game. without fear of being banned for "counterflaming" while he receives no ban because of a faulty system. Or, my other option is to cease communication because I'm annoyed with them and scared of being banned when they realize I am right. It's a lose lose situation.
: Continuing from the first comment in the string due to lack of space; Granted, you are one example out of millions upon millions of players, but the odds of habitual flamers being able to consider other options _beyond_ flaming are, unfortunately, low. And no amount of custom-tailoring the punishment messages to sympathize with flamers' situations would really change their proclivity to resort to flaming when they have other options available. On top of that, you're also asking for explicit punishment information of other players, which Riot is not allowed to give. They can't tell you that "x player has been punished" or where their account stands. It's not your account, and consequently, its standing in the system is not your concern. > I also don't believe in letting yourself be bullied... Like reiterating that you are misconstruing counterflaming for defending oneself, I will also do my best to hammer home the fact that _**Riot gives you the tools already to stop yourself from being bullied. You have the mute and report features; mute a player in-game so their flame won't continue to affect you for the whole match, and then report them post-game so that they can be punished for it.**_ If you don't believe in letting yourself be bullied, then you should readily and easily use the mute feature. > ...always stand up for yourself... In real life, there are situations where a case can be made for standing up for yourself. In League of Legends, though, all you're doing is exacerbating the issue by flaming them back. There's zero value for standing up to people you don't know and who you'll likely never meet again, and all you're accomplishing is taking a bad situation and making it ten times worse for _everyone_ involved. So, in League, the best recourse for dealing with flamers and bullies is _**Mute, Report, & Move On.**_ Mute them so that you don't have to deal with their continued harassment throughout the match, Report them post-game so that they can be punished for their misbehavior, and then move on, knowing that in general, the odds of you seeing that person again are close to none. > When I would respond in a verbally aggressive manner the abuse would stop... As stated above, more often than not, flaming back a flamer will just exacerbate the issue and create a flame war. The abuse wouldn't stop, it'd just intensify. It helps nothing to escalate the issue by flaming back. > So why would it make sense that only one person gets banned, that's like someone starting a fight with you and you getting thrown in jail because you were stronger and won the fight. That is not equality and it does not promote a non-toxic environment. It's an imbalance in power that protects the bullies and people who abuse the system. Again; you do not understand the system and assume that misbehavior will automatically resolve to a punishment when reported. It's not an imbalance of power, and it's not that you "were stronger" or "won the fight". (Besides the obvious fact of **there's no winning a flamewar.**) You don't know how close or how far the other party was from a punishment. You getting punished does not automatically mean that everyone else involved will be punished; they have their own punishment history that their behavior is weighed against. Bullies are not protected, and the system is barely abuseable - if you don't break the rules, you won't get punished. > I propose Riot should make a 10 commandments type of thing that completely lists all offenses one can make that would warrant a chat ban or otherwise. Like the Code of Conduct I linked in my initial response? The section of the ToU that lists, pretty comprehensively, the majority of behavior that isn't allowed? Again, the resources already exist. It doesn't take much effort to look for them. That you didn't is on you.
The code of conducts offers a very vague explanation iii. Harassing, stalking or threatening other players while using the Riot Services; v. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethically, or otherwise objectionable; so essentially a very vague definition that can be twisted to benifit the automated banning and easily, not barely, abusable system. What defines harmful? What is abusive? What is harassing? IS it harmful to tell someone they are trash and should uninstall? Is it abusive is someone tells you you are shit and you should never play the champion again? Is it harassing to constantly spam ping and constantly say" our X is trash"," omg report X continuously"? these are not rare behaviors, they are present in every almost game- so what riot means when they say its to their "Exclusive discretion" what they really are doing is covering their ass when faults within their system are found. this is not a defined code of conduct, and if it is, it is not followed and applicable to EVERYONE and thus it is not functional.
: > Anyone can say/do anything to you and you have to take it, you can never defend yourself... No, you can totally defend yourself. You have the mute feature. You simply elect not to use it in favor of... > ...or respond with the same aggression given to you... Counterflaming. You're choosing to counterflame, not defend yourself. When you respond to flamers in kind, _you are not defending yourself. You are flaming back, and consequently, no better than the flamer._ > ...and if you do you are banned but he is not because he doesn't have 0 honor. This statement looks like it's assuming that the punishment tiers are tied to your Honor Level; they aren't. Someone could be Honor Level 1 and be just as likely to be banned as someone at Honor Level 0; the Honor Levels are not in and of themselves indicative of people's punishment status. Hell, you could be Honor Level 0 and only be on the verge of a 14-day ban. Your Honor Level drops when you get punished, while your punishment status is unaffected by your Honor Level. So at the end of the day, you don't know whether or not someone would be banned if punished, and Honor is by no means an indicator to that effect. > I got banned once about 2 years ago for triggering the system with kys (full chat log was :"kys"- "jk, I love you"- and I received a 2 week ban ) And that was a just punishment; you don't get exemption from the rules just because you say "JK". Breaking the rules as a joke is still breaking the rules. > - have been 0 honor ever since because there's always 1 in those 50 games that you do bad and everyone reports you/flames you and you go on the defensive. We've already seen that you're not really going on the defensive. To quote you; you're "responding with the same aggression given to you". That's not going on the defensive, that's going on the offensive. _Flaming_. And as it were, you're not going to regain Honor _at all_ if you continually resort to flaming people. It doesn't matter if they flamed first, or if they flamed you harder, _flaming is against the rules, and it's not honorable conduct._ > Or you get trolled in game / griefed and you tell the person off but you get banned and he doesn't. They may get punished even without the system telling you; the Instant Feedback Report tries to make sure that the match in question is in recent memory before being sent out, since it could cause confusion if you were told that someone you reported was punished, and the only person you reported recently was a week or so ago. Regardless of whether or not you know someone is punished, them breaking the rules, again, does not give you a free pass to break the rules yourself. > so imagine someone who is addicted to this game, they have to literally go through the psychological torment of being harassed without being able to say anything. It is honestly extremely frustrating and literally is psychological abuse. First of all, that is one hell of a mess of hyperbolic statements. Second; _**you literally have the mute feature, which can literally block out any further psychological abuse from people flaming you, and you are literally ignoring its existence in favor of the short-lived vindication of counterflaming.**_ Don't act like you don't have the tools to mitigate harm, and _definitely_ don't act like the only way you can stay sane is to flame and rant and rave and shout down anyone and everyone who says "boo". And if League of Legends is proving so psychologically torturous, if you're _truly_ addicted to the game; _seek help. Put a stop to your pain and get help to quit._ > ...but my report has 0 effect and I can't even defend myself(sic). If someone's flaming you, your report has effect. The issue is that you have no idea how far along towards a punishment they are, so that could be their first instance of flaming and you wouldn't know. Do not confuse your lack of information for the system not working. And, I'll repeat it ad nauseum; _**you're not defending yourself. You're flaming back. Defending yourself is using the mute feature.**_ > Now the counter argument is someone with 0 honor deserves to be psychologically tormented because they have done it to others. maybe, but if that's the case aren't we just encouraging toxic behavior? Exactly _nobody_ is saying that Honor Level 0 players deserve to be treated like shit. You're posing it as an argument of your own to combat without anyone even suggesting it; effectively, you're pulling a strawman argument. > Not to mention there is no specific guideline that tells you what warrants a chat restriction... No specific guideline? None at all? No [Code of Conduct](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#code-conduct) which you agree to with every patch, no [Summoner's Code](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/summoners-code) that you're encouraged to read and follow when you create your account? You not caring to look for behavioral guidelines does not mean there are no guidelines. > ...Which is fine IF EVERYONE HAD TO FOLLOW THOSE SAME GUIDELINES- but they don't. They do. Again; the system works, and people are held to the same rules, you simply don't understand how the system works. Even the regulars here on PB only have a basic grasp of the system; only Riot knows exactly how it works, and we understand largely from what tidbits about the system they share with us. Perhaps, rather than making sweeping assumptions about how the system works, take a moment to consider how much you actually understand of it and ask others how the system works? You might be surprised about what information you're missing. > Right now If i made a new account and copied the chat logs from the games I got banned on my 0 honor account I would receive no bans. If you're referring to the "kys" thing you mentioned earlier, I guarantee you you'd get banned again even on a fresh account. Zero tolerance offenses like that will _always_ result in a 14-day ban on the first verified offense, no matter the status of the account. > Thereby indicating that it's not the action itself that gets you banned or chat restricted, but the status of your account. Technically, the account status does matter, but not in the way you think. You're thinking that it's tied to Honor Level, but it's not. And, believe it or not; _the action itself matters too_. Negativity, flaming, and zero-tolerance offenses all have varying degrees of severity, and how severe the offense is does in fact have an impact on what type of punishment you receive. Flaming can get you punished quicker, zero-tolerance offenses will always result in a ban, and negativity is treated more leniently by the system than flaming; albeit, it's still ultimately punished all the same. As for the status of your account; that does, to a degree, play a part in whether or not you get punished. The severity of your offenses leading up to a punishment create a behavioral history, and that behavioral history is what your actions get weighed against before the IFS decides whether or not to punish you. The actual punishment tiers are something vaguely akin to negative milestones for your behavioral history, and continuously getting punished and reaching higher punishment tiers make the system ever-less lenient when considering whether or not it should punish you based off of your most recent offense. > ...so you must either take the abuse -and let it build up until you eventually snap and go back to 0 honor, unless you have patience of a saint. (Lord help me) **_You have the mute feature. You do not have to sit and take abuse, you can effectively silence abusive communications with the press of a button. If you are not using the mute feature, you are not taking the steps you should to prevent harm._** > Just permaban the 0 honor players... This lends credence to your supposition that you might be overreacting. You're basically saying "I've been stuck at Honor Level 0 because I would rather flame back than mute players, and because it's agonizing I think Riot should simply permaban people who are Honor Level 0 without any real reason." Between all the hyperbolic fluff about League being psychologically abusive and torturous and addicting, I'm going to be blunt; yes. You're overreacting. > ...not to mention if you started permanently banning people you would be forced to watch their games, pay more attention and take into consideration the feelings of the humans who are playing your game. A machine can't understand context, but a human can. If you're proposing that Riot make a broad sweep and simply permaban all players at HL0, then they wouldn't be watching those players' games; they'd just look at any account below Honor Level 1 and permanently suspend it. Beyond that, even if Riot _did_ have to watch through people's matches, it doesn't matter what kind of stuff you've had to deal with - Riot and the community both believe that you alone are responsible for your own actions, and that other people misbehaving doesn't give you the freedom to misbehave yourself. Even if it gives Riot understanding of the situation, it still wouldn't change the fact that those players broke the rules and deserved punishment. > Imagine being banned, but receiving a message saying "we understand that you had a bad game, the pyke launched you unto dragons pit and purposely griefed you, but you going afk and griefing the rest of your team was unacceptable, what did they do to deserve that?" "So we have given you a 1 week ban as well as given the pyke a 3 day ban for this issue- we hope you this will encourage you to be more tolerant of other situations like this and perhaps handle it in a better way- for example reporting him after the game. " Riot can't custom-tailor punishment messages to cover any and every situation that pisses players off. And even if they could, who's to say that doing so would be remotely effective? This entire time, you've been pointedly ignoring the existence of the mute feature for the _whole post_, and insisting that the only way you can reach catharsis under stress is to just flame people back when they start flaming you. I'll have to continue this in another comment;
You just said you are no better than the flamer, but then persist to agree that the punishment should be 1 sided. You continuously contradict yourself.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: Tribunal would ban you all as well so idk why you ask for it. People that are coming to boards asking if their ban was fair almost always end with tons of dislikes and those dislikes are like verdict - ban justified.
A ban with a justified reason, is better than a ban with no justification based upon machine review. As humans it makes it an easier pill to swallow. Also it tells you what you did wrong so that you don't repeat your mistakes as opposed to making the same mistake over and over again not comprehending what it is.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=IGaNkNuBz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZnnATcYc,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-10-19T16:59:00.295+0000) > > IF it is just as bad, Shouldn't they RECEIVE THE SAME PUNISHMENT? > > you are contradicting yourself and proving my point. Because youre either over exaggerating things and raging for no reaon whatsoever.... Or they do recieve the same punishment. That, or they arent a repeat offender, while you are.
well my last game I was griefed, asked him why, got no response and go banned. Intentional griefing should be worse than the words that you speak after being griefed.
Pika Fox (NA)
: .... Heres the thing; you responding is why you got honor 0 in the first place. Mute, report, move on. You "defending yourself" is just as bad as them flaming you.
IF it is just as bad, Shouldn't they RECEIVE THE SAME PUNISHMENT? you are contradicting yourself and proving my point.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ZnnATcYc,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T16:35:02.510+0000) > > The rewards were half of the problem with the tribunal. Especially since, in all cases, the automated system is far more accurate than the tribunal ever was. Even for the not so obvious bans, which are just erred on the side of caution as a non ban, as thats the most accurate. thats my point there was no replay system back then and the rewards were lack luster and not accurate for what you should be doing as a tribunal member. Limiting it to high honored players with a purely postitive standing with the community can help eleviate a lot of the drawbacks that the Tribunal had.
Interesting, so it airs on the side of caution and puts no ban, UNLESS you are honor level 0. Then the side of caution is a ban. That is unreasable and not justice. Imagine our justice system did the same and if a formally convicted felon was accused of a crime and places in jail without a fair trial, just as a cautionary measure.
: >I'm not saying it's impossible, just saying it's torment, torture and abuse. I can really imagine someone losing their sanity over this, this is the stuff school shootings are made of- no joke- you have a feeling of no power, whilst you are abused for extended periods of time. This literally constitutes a mental breakdown. I think someone could legitimately go insane if they are addicted to league they could potentially snap and this would have real world consequences. Please seek help. I'm not being sarcastic when I say this is seriously unhealthy and saying stuff like this can probably get you on a list somewhere. If the game is affecting you this much you need to stop playing and look for professional help as soon as possible.
Well no, I said I can quit and I do take breaks when it's mentally exhausting, but i really want to play with my friends and my friends don't want to learn dota. This game is popular and I'm starting to like it, I invest time and money into it. I Think the tribunal system is intelligent, it just need refining. You are dealing with humans with human emotions I don't think the percentage of players that would refer to this are psychological torment is under 50% I think it's over 50%. powerlessness and long term abuse do have proven psychological detriments and to say otherwise is unreasonable. I'm putting myself in the shoes of someone who would be actually addicted and continue to play despite their deteriorating mental state, this would prove seriously detrimental to their mental health. do you disagree?
Dynikus (NA)
: > there's always 1 in those 50 games that you do bad and everyone reports you/flames you and you go on the defensive. Or you get trolled in game / griefed and you tell the person off but you get banned and he doesn't. No friend, that's just you, which is why you're honor 0. > they have to literally go through the psychological torment of being harassed without being able to say anything. It is honestly extremely frustrating and literally is psychological abuse. You're making this out to be _far_ more extreme than it is.
Yes I've stated this I Don't like being flamed or insulted when I do bad at a game. If he can flame or insult me, without consequence I don't see why I should not be able to defend myself. I do make use of the ignore all feature, but then it devolves into griefing when they realize I'm ignoring them- I don't even say muted- I just mute for my own sanity- but when my teammates troll me in-game by say launching me into dragon pit or waiting for me to die before helping.... I can't control that. and it's not reportable, or it is reportable in theory but I never see results. It is abuse, and for you to say otherwise is irrational. I challenge you to try this experience for yourself, walk a mile in my shoes.
Comentários de Rioters
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: You are aware that there are essentially three systems at play when it comes to verbal toxicity, right? "Regular" punishments go through a machine learning system that does indeed take context into account. Not perfectly, of course, but that would even be an unreasonable expectation of manual reviews. Only zero tolerance phrases are caught through scanning for key words. We're talking about slurs and encouragement to self harm here, nothing else. And in the vast majority of cases, the semantics for these specific phrases are **very** clear. And finally, the third system is: Manual reviews. Which you can request. Multiple times, even. The zero tolerance system might be flawed, but that's why you can write tickets to support. That's why you can make Riot manually review your case if you feel it's appropriate. No system will ever be flawless. The real key is giving people who fall victim to those flaws a way to fix things or get things fixed for them. And Riot does that.
Why would Riot allow victims to be created by such phrases in the first place, Riot could easily censor words since these slurs and phrases should simply not be uttered, due to the 0 tolerance policy. In fact I can argue that a real 0 tolerance policy would have everyone obligatorily censored. Thus the complete and utter removal of such slurs, which in turn allows for less victims to go through the sheer psychological torment of having another summoner tell them to kill themselves. The fact that Riot allows these words to exist in the game, but will suspend your account for 2 weeks for using them is completely hypocritical and absurd. Why give anyone the ability to speak a word that you have a 0 tolerance policy against. It's akin to giving an addict drugs and telling him not to do drugs it literally makes 0 sense.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: It's worth pointing out that when it comes to the validity of punishments, there are two different "kind" of contexts to consider. They are **both** ignored by the zero tolerance system which really just checks for keywords, but only one of them is ignored when it comes to a manual review (which you can always request after having been punished) A) Context that explains **why** you used those words with the purpose of attacking somebody. That's the context that is ignored in its entirety, because firstly, slurs like the one you (probably) used implicitly insult the entire group the slur refers to, and secondly because it is Riot's (and the majority of the community's) opinion that you should never stoop this low, regardless of how somebody is provoking you. They can't force you to use these words, hence also why it's ridiculous to consider this a way of empowering flamers. It empowers **everybody** to weed out this particular kind of toxicity equally. And that's good. Even criminals deserve to be protected by the law, and even flamers deserve to be protected by the summoner's code. B) Context that changes the meaning of what was said or moves the word up one meta-layer (i.e. the difference between a table and the word "table"). This is the kind of context that typically will make the support remove or at least reduce your punishment. An example of the first would be encouraging somebody to kill themselves to go back to the shop in an ARAM game. Another much simpler example would be a typo, like hitting the key to the right of 'b' in the word "bigger". An example of the second would be people blackmailing people by threatening to troll unless you say a (usually fairly obscure) zero tolerance word. To be completely clear: I really dislike that the zero tolerance system (**not** the general automated system, btw) ignores the second kind of context, but I also somewhat understand their reason in trying to weed out this kind of behaviour as aggressively as possible.
> [{quoted}](name=TrulyBland,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7ujZfLIm,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-08-04T17:24:11.378+0000) > > It's worth pointing out that when it comes to the validity of punishments, there are two different "kind" of contexts to consider. They are **both** ignored by the zero tolerance system which really just checks for keywords, but only one of them is ignored when it comes to a manual review (which you can always request after having been punished) > > A) Context that explains **why** you used those words with the purpose of attacking somebody. That's the context that is ignored in its entirety, because firstly, slurs like the one you (probably) used implicitly insult the entire group the slur refers to, and secondly because it is Riot's (and the majority of the community's) opinion that you should never stoop this low, regardless of how somebody is provoking you. > They can't force you to use these words, hence also why it's ridiculous to consider this a way of empowering flamers. It empowers **everybody** to weed out this particular kind of toxicity equally. And that's good. Even criminals deserve to be protected by the law, and even flamers deserve to be protected by the summoner's code. > > B) Context that changes the meaning of what was said or moves the word up one meta-layer (i.e. the difference between a table and the word "table"). > This is the kind of context that typically will make the support remove or at least reduce your punishment. > An example of the first would be encouraging somebody to kill themselves to go back to the shop in an ARAM game. Another much simpler example would be a typo, like hitting the key to the right of 'b' in the word "bigger". > An example of the second would be people blackmailing people by threatening to troll unless a (usually fairly obscure) zero tolerance word. > > To be completely clear: I really dislike that the zero tolerance system (**not** the general automated system, btw) ignores the second kind of context, but I also somewhat understand their reason in trying to weed out this kind of behaviour as aggressively as possible. I understand what you are saying my friend, but i seriously question Riots intentions with this system. Listen if removing toxicity would be as simple as removing people who say bad words, Mobas would be a utopia. Unfortunately this is not the case, there are multiple ways of trolling and multiple ways to use words. I'm 100% certain that Riot understands that when it comes to verbal toxicity much of it is semantics, how you used the words and their meaning at the time of use, therefore a buzz word based system HAS to be inherently flawed unless it scans for context and/or has a deep understanding of semantics ( Basically a system that does NOT ignore both of the types of contexts you mentioned). Evidence of Riot understanding semantics is seen in the ability to remove profanity filter, thus allowing people to swear, and not simply removing these buzzwords by replacing them with other words or replacing them with asterisks. I think that removing the words from the game would be a simpler solution than banning players for 2 weeks for using them. Once again I have to say this system is flawed.
: A Flawed system.
Dude the way you speak currently gets you a 2 week ban my friend, even if you have had no priors. Happened to me I have a thread right here and I was joking around too! https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/7ujZfLIm-let-us-discuss-riots-automated-banning-system
: Let us discuss Riot's automated Banning system
I definitely used two buzzwords, but what a machine can't apparently detect is context and when someone is simply messing around... I've definitely had people pretend to be toxic for a second saying something stupid and pretending to ban my champ and then say i'm kidding and not actually grief. Jokes are funny and it's cool to mess around once in a while in video games... My mistake was in messing with someone who was tilted/flaming me. Thus even though he wasn't actually insulted or offended he had the advantage of knowing there was a buzzword system and used this fact to extract his revenge for my abhorrent yasuo play. Game 1 In-Game IGaNkNuBz: nuid can ytou go top? <-- this was at the start so it's unrelated IGaNkNuBz: you'rea %%%%%% kys <--- this is said as rakan is flaming me IGaNkNuBz: jk <--- and then 2 seconds after IGaNkNuBz: ily <-- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ As you can see I was clearly being toxic and i deserve to not play this game for 2 weeks. The problem lies in using a buzzword system like this which can so easily be manipulated to completely ruin someones experience of a game this does not really solve or aid the toxicity problem, as empowers Flamers/Ragers to use the report button as a way to Troll/Grief people. This is why I think the system in general is just bad, as well as the severity of the punishment regardless of whether or not I'm guilty in this particular instance. This suspension has only served to attract my attention to something that I may not have noticed otherwise, this is why I think we should attempt to discuss a better system as customers of Riot and fans of League.
Comentários de Rioters

IGaNkNuBz

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