BBKong (NA)
: She's very strong this preseason. There are two reasons her winrates and etc on websites are so bad. 1. She's a very difficult champ, especially early which is where she excels, so if you fuck up her difficult earlygame or even just first clear you can't do what she does best and snowball. 2. She's been played in every role over the course of the game, so people still take her in lanes occasionally and like doing testing to see what she can do well next. I saw an Iceborn Gauntlet Nid top just last week, and that hasn't truly been her "meta" role for a while now. Never trust the winrates for champs like Nid imo. I feel like the preseason made her really strong because the playstyle is good for her, and that's what I hear a lot of other people saying too. Edit: I also forgot to add, those runes are actually really good on her. Attack speed stat is optional but some people like it for kiting the buff camps, but besides that you can go either sorcery and skirmish or go inspiration which is a lot safer of an option (free gold + free CDR). I never agree with Elec over DH **for jungle Nidalee** right now though. Source - On my first account many seasons ago I hit low diamond onetricking her. Quit ranked until earlier this year and have been playing mostly other champs right now because I'm having fun straying from my old onetrick.
I hit Diamond III on her in Season 7 and stat sites had her performing at 53%, 67% Mastered back then.
: > Why don't you try querying "All Ranks" instead of a sample size of 1300 matches in Diamond. Because "All Ranks" doesn't reflect anything of value. The consistency of the playerbase diamond+ reflects far outweighs the bodies you get through "all ranks" "stabilizing" things. > She's down to 48% in Support. 49%. Not bad at all with her play rate, realistically. The goal is for her to be balanced, not necessarily 50%+ win rate. Balance is not "this champion should be broken so it can have over 50% win rate. " > Never mind 1/4 of ALL those games are Korea alone. That matters...how? > 21 Matches total in NA Matters...how? > EUW in Diamond is less than 50% ADC Matters...how? Every region except EUW is performing quite well with her. > Brazil is the region weighting the win rate. And Korea, and EUW. Does it matter if she's not popular in NA? Its probably got more to do with white nationalists than anything related to balance.
No. Diamond is 2% of the community, and reflects better equipment, quieter play environments, and often consistent one tricking. Games don't balance for health around 2%. They balance at least around the minor majority competent players (at least Gold). 2) Making excuses for trying to claim a low win rate is still broken. Can you be more biased? 3) Because Korea only has a player base of 300,000. It literally means they are over-representing due to hardcore gaming player base. North America has 21 games. Let that sink in. Our player base is over 5 million. 4) Actually 4 regions are positive with her out of 9. And they all have small sample sizes. Like 21 to 79 games, and Most of them are VERY LARGE COUNTRIES (Brazil/NA/Russia all have good win rates but tiny game volume). 5) White nationalists? WTF? You really will grab at anything lmfao. 31% of the US is black, 17% Latino, and the actual white population is shrinking into a minority. We have no more or less hate than any other region. We have it, but did that stop Grand Theft Auto and other gang-based games from being top sellers? No.
: Uhh, you do get that pick rates should add up to around 200% because there are two picks when considering both teams, right? This is the case for ALL sites. They should all be right around 190% total if you add everyone up in their respective roles. _______________________________________________ Why are you trying to tote around statistics as your argument if you don't even know how they work?
U.GG adds up to 100%. And stat sites don't split game statistics into team statistics unless talking about blind pick. Ban rates add up to 100% as well.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Why are you linking u.gg ALLRANKS? xD Just go with D+ to draw conclusions
Because D + is not a sustantive evaluation of anything, since it's only 2% of the entire community. If you said "only Gold + matters" that's at least 46% of the community, which is far more significant a statistic. Even at D + Nid is 48%, and their rune choices don't represent a flex pick.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=22vaGYZE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-13T02:21:53.746+0000) > > https://u.gg/lol/champions/senna/build?role=adc&rank=overall > > Why don't you try querying "All Ranks" instead of a sample size of 1300 matches in Diamond. > > She's down to 48% in Support. > > Never mind 1/4 of ALL those games are Korea alone. > > 21 Matches total in NA > > EUW in Diamond is less than 50% ADC > > Brazil is the region weighting the win rate. Are you getting paid by riot to defend those new abominations? Or are you just that much dense?
I guess stat sites are getting paid by Riot too.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=22vaGYZE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-13T02:21:53.746+0000) > > snip https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/senna She still has a 20% popularity while maintaining an above 50% _total_ win rate. Do you seriously not see that as a problem?
Nope. She has 2 roles, and there are a lot of champions with a 20% "Popularity" (League of Graphs fudges numbers, btw) https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds In fact, 5 of the top 15 pick rate champions are ADCS who compete with Senna for a role. (just in the top 15 pick rate champs, adcs account for 116% of "Pick rate" which isn't even possible). (Jhin is 15.8% with 52%) (In Masters, Lucian and Caitlyn both destroy Senna in both pick rate and win rate) And that's using your own site. This is where Senna is as Adc when you separate her roles, considering your own site: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/adc/iron
Comentários de Rioters
: Senna adc still at 53% wr after this patch of nerfs
https://u.gg/lol/champions/senna/build?role=adc&rank=overall Why don't you try querying "All Ranks" instead of a sample size of 1300 matches in Diamond. She's down to 48% in Support. Never mind 1/4 of ALL those games are Korea alone. 21 Matches total in NA EUW in Diamond is less than 50% ADC Brazil is the region weighting the win rate.
: When silver became diamond?
When the Silver is a leisure account played after a 12 hour work day on a 10 MB connection with a Notebook, with a 4 year old with Autism, a wife who adds no less than 3-4 distractions per game that are hard to ignore. I don't play on my main when my environment isn't conducive to it.
: Funny how Nami is on the top champs with most flat skill curve in the entire game. This means that since you first time her and you máster her, your winrate barely increases. Riot Blaustoise data. Don't know why there's so many ppl saying that she takes skill when she's the most braindead enchanter in the game.
She does actually have a skill curve. However, it's her design itself that doesn't translate into mastery successes translating into wins. Most champions who are secondary damagers and poor CS killers all share one thing in common: they generally reflect their team's success to an extent not their own.
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: >Every champion but Karthus and Vlad and Cass and Ryze should be auto attacking. If they are not, that's part of the reason they are in whatever elo they are in. When you're playing as Syndra against another mid, it's pretty clear that she's an entirely mage character and outside of the very early game trades, where you do exchange AAs with the opponent who's skills are on CD (and yours), the mage's AAs are next to useless if they're not a part of their gameplay mechanic. Katarina has absolutely nothing to gain by AAing her enemies but since she's melee, she might as well get a few autos in, in early in the game. Once she outscales that pitiful damage, she's more concerned about her core gameplay which is to throw a bunch of daggers around and blink to them for damage. At least half of the champions that exist, cannot use Nami's E effectively since they gain nothing by doing it. Why would Syndra AAs anyone with Nami's E if she was in a range of AAs and not use her full salvo to blow up another champion instead? In your Vel'Koz example, His Q applies a slow, His E applies a knock up, his R applies a slow. But all 3 basic abilities are skillshots so if he hits them, he already CCs the target. Nami's E won't change his effectiveness if he's missing everything and he can still use his AAs to apply a slow before he throws the magic damages at the target. Nami's still a mana hungry champion if she spams everything for the utility upkeep. Her W costs 130 mana at max rank. That's ridiculous but ultimately necessary as the ability can potentially damage 2 targets and heal 1 or damage 1 and heal 2. And Nami's full of utility so having her pay the extra cost in terms of mana does gate her spammability.
You need to realize that discovering the auto attack resets in mage champion kits are key to maximizing their effectiveness, clenching kills, and in Katarina's case, it's often a situation of resetting her skills. If I didn't auto attack on Morgana, I would literally refund the champion. Try {{item:3070}} > {{item:3504}} > {{item:3174}} > {{item:3003}} On Nami. I guarantee you won't think she's mana hungry.
: Thank you riot for getting rid of the Penalty on Support..... but why a Nami Buff?
P.S. Funny how the entire thread had + 19 votes and in 1 hour swung to -48. Way to go trolls :)
: nami was supposed to be a damage support but she cant dish out much damage so i think riot trying to make her more effective as damage instead of just heals... buffing her W would make her annoying to deal when she deals so much dmg with W and heal at same time so they buffed E
I do about 29k damage a game with Nami on top of about 21k in heals and 6-7k in shields. Don't quite know what you mean by low damage unless you're a meta hound building a 52% win rate build and betting the averages carry. Core Nami Meta items have very real vulnerabilities, and you need to build adaptively to compensate them.{{item:3003}} is common in my builds and I'm often over 400+ AP.
: I'm saying this out of sympathy but please, stop pretending you aren't in the elo you are. I often see you in boards and it's been a long time. You're spreading misinformation and not respecting the effort needed to do so. If you really want to climb the first step is recognizing you need to improve.
I actually am in another elo :) And by all means; tutor me on "misinformation" rather than just accusing me of it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PBsd6mKh,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-12-12T18:33:35.712+0000) > > She's already a 52% champ. She isn't op though.
I can 1v1 Evelynn on her. Have a little trouble with Blue Kayn though :)
: O look another 2 piece set that's better than every single 6 piece set
Soulbound by itself is actually pretty weak. Senna however has a lot of potential utility, and she works best in an Infernal team or a Summoner team, but also needs a source of mana regen etc. If you try to build light or dark Soulbound the result is usually 3rd place at best, 8th most of the time, simply because there are too many 1-3 tier champs you can't complete and have a weak tank wall.
: Riot has not released a new tank in 28 months
Sett is getting classified as a Juggernaut but he's definitely the definition of tanky. Taking hits massively increases his HP regen, he's designed to scale off HP and do % health damage to people with high HP, like a lot of tanks do.
: Probably so you can play nami with a mage carry. Makes perfect sense. Making a champion abilities not useful really isn't a buff, it's more of a hotfix.
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: Nami gets E on spells because on the champions that don't AA, it's effectively useless unless you cast it on them for the MS bonus. This way, the use cases for her E extend to more teammates who use their brains too and not just their bran. Nami's not gonna be pick/ban because now she's gonna be "able to" harass with spells. She can already do that.
Every champion but Karthus and Vlad and Cass and Ryze should be auto attacking. If they are not, that's part of the reason they are in whatever elo they are in. Furthermore, it's news to me that Riot supports Swiss Army knives who have don't have weak synergies. She's a 52% champ whose getting a potentially HUGE buff. For example, how do you expect to escape Vel Koz if he has Nami's E on him ?1580 range skills that now have an added 35% slow. That being said, this is literally going to push me to 67-68% win rate in Diamond II as Nami.
: Inb4 someone says the reason is her Q. They don’t realize that the q is suppose to come after the E slow or Ult knock up {{sticker:sg-poppy}}
Tough call tbh. I play Nami at D II, and sometimes I do lead with Q, but only when I can predict an opponent's run-away pattern and they have nowhere to go but either toward me or into the bubble (assuming toward me means they die to my team) Sometimes I will just use W to speed boost myself and Q behind them with their character being in the outer rim.
: If Nami is getting her E to buff spells then maybe Riot are trying to open enchanters to supporting mages? Would like to see enchanters able to buff classes other than the Marksmen/Ad-fighter.
My question here would be: If they are attempting to create more Mage/Support duos, what is going to happen to adc, which completely gets dominated by mages already?
IVSakenz (NA)
: Don't Worry as long as senna and blitz/naut are around, Nami will never be a ban pick. She is one of those champs that slide under the radar even though she has the ability to turn the "tide" in a team fight pretty easily.
Senna is 48% as support after the patch. 50% Adc. Pretty sure she's going to get a small compensate buff, and fall off the ban list with Sett and Aphelios. Naut and Blitz yes. But I bet with this change, Nami will vault to 54% average, and I could pull 67% personally with it in Diamond....
: He is still very simple to play and understand and if you were to explain him to someone you wouldnt need to talk for 5 minutes Same goes for Senna, who also is not overloaded Try to explain Senna to someone and then explain Akali rework on launch and measure how much time you wasted explaining (like i am now) Overloaded means to have 3 different passives and then have each ability have like 2 interactions with said passive on top of its initial description. By your logic Renekton would be one of those overloaded champions too (He is bullshit sometimes but not overloaded) I really hope you understand what i am trying to say here
I'm basically playing Devil's Advocate. One of Senna's biggest complains by people not playing her is "holy crap! ..... Wall of text with a ton of functions." Truth is her "what was a wall of text" has been dumbed down, and it basically has self nerfs to compensate a set of bonuses. It's not really that complicated, but they like to think it is. So far it really looks like the Senna nerfs (even though tiny) really hit Senna like an ugly stick...... like I predicted they would. Her performance wasn't the issue. Her abuse of hard CC supports was. In other words, an adc nerf has basically also made her a bad support.
Comentários de Rioters
: What are you on about, just cuz its long doent mean its overloaded All of those abilities you can shorten up to 2 sentences once you realize what he actually does
He has comparatively the same amount of text and passive enhancements as Senna. But you're trying to say he's "simple" because he is a juggernaut, not some adc.
GankLord (NA)
: Whoever designed Sett
Have you even read his abilities? He has at least 11 effects between 5 skill slots (including passive) Kit looks simple in play but it's more like a Pre Q "rework" Lee Sin duality of skills per skill. > HEAVY HANDS: Sett's basic attacks alternate between a left punch then a right punch. Sett begins attacking with a left punch, and will reset back to it after 2 seconds of not performing a right punch. > > Sett's right punch gains 700% total attack speed and deals 5 − 90 (based on level) (+ 15% AD) Attack damage bonus physical damage. > > HEART OF THE HALF-BEAST: Sett gains Health regeneration icon 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2 (based on level) health regeneration for every 5% of his missing health. That's 3 just on his passive (technically) > > ACTIVE: Sett gains Movement speed icon 30% bonus movement speed within 1.5 seconds while moving towards enemy Champion icon champions. > > Sett's next two basic attacks each deal bonus physical damage. > > BONUS PHYSICAL DAMAGE:» > 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 (+ 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5% (+ 1% per 100 AD) of target's maximum health) This one's pretty simple. > Haymaker TARGET RANGE: XWIDTH: X / XANGLE: XCOST: 100% CURRENT GRITCOOLDOWN: 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 > Haymaker > PASSIVE: Sett stores 100% of the damage taken post-mitigation as Grit on his secondary resource bar, up to 340 − 935 (based on level) (+ 50% of his maximum health). Each instance of accumulated Grit decays by X every second after 4 seconds. > > ACTIVE: After a 1 second delay, Sett blasts an area in the target direction, dealing physical damage to enemies hit. Enemies hit through the center take Hybrid penetration true damage instead. > > PHYSICAL DAMAGE: > 60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+ 25% (+ 10% per 100 bonus AD) of expended Grit) > Additionally, Sett gains a rapidly decaying Hybrid resistances icon shield for 2 seconds equal to the Grit expended. This is at least 2 more (Skill shot and Shield) > Facebreaker TARGET RANGE: XCOOLDOWN: 16 / 14.5 / 13 / 11.5 / 10 > Facebreaker > ACTIVE: Sett Airborne icon pulls in enemies at his front and back, dealing physical damage and Slow icon slowing them by 50% for 0.5 seconds. > > PHYSICAL DAMAGE: > 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+ 60% AD) > If Facebreaker affects at least one enemy on each side, all enemies are Stun icon stunned for 1 second upon landing. There's 2 more; Slow if it's one target. Stun if it's two. Both ways, acts as one of the best pulls in the game. > The Show Stopper COOLDOWN: 120 / 100 / 80 > The Show Stopper > ACTIVE: Sett Dash dashes Unstoppable icon unstoppably at a fixed distance toward the target enemy champion, Airborne icon carrying it along before slamming into the ground. > > Enemies within the impact area take physical damage, reduced by X% − X% (based on proximity), and are Slow icon slowed by 99% for 1.5 seconds. > > PHYSICAL DAMAGE: > 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 100% bonus AD) (+ 40 / 50 / 60% of primary target's bonus health) At least 3 aspects to this: - It's an unstoppable. -It displaces the target. -It's an aoe damage that both has 100% AD scaling AND adds 40-60% of the target's bonus HP to the hit (In other words, use Show stopper on a 6000 HP Cho Gath and literally 1 shot his entire team) -It's an aoe 99%+ slow. In other words, he's a much better Darius, much better Vi, and a little bit of Thresh built in.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hIGWbxQE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-12-12T04:37:50.461+0000) > > Did you miss the point where he can become invuln to turrets? > > Did you miss the fact he can dual directional pull on that stun? > > That he's unstoppable during his ult? [An ult that does AoE damage that scales with 60% of the targets bonus HP.](https://youtu.be/krO9seracqc?t=10)
Unstoppable during that ult. It disrupts other skills and cannot be CC'd.
Ahri Baka (EUNE)
: Kinda same , but it knocks enemies forward which can be tolling sometimes , and it has a shorter range , while he has no mobility.
Because Immobility stops Darius with Ghost and itemization. And instead of Darius' single pull, he has a dual directional pull. Why is Swain strong? Morde? oh right. Really good pulls. This one stuns.
: Hey look, Sett is Simple, can you guys give the design team a break now?
Did you miss the point where he can become invuln to turrets? Did you miss the fact he can dual directional pull on that stun? That he's unstoppable during his ult? And the fact he has a shield? P.S. He's a Tower of God ripoff of Baylord Yama
: tired of seeing mages be #1 every game. EVERY. SINGLE. GAME
The good news is Mages aren't winning like that now..... IF YOU BUILD RIGHT. Infernal has monstrous potential, ESPECIALLY with {{champion:235}} in game (Every ally who she hits and enemy she hits becomes a buff spot for an Infernal Hex if you Infernal her...... literally splashing the entire map with burn zones from a single already damage enhancing skill...... 6 of 9 champs almost die instantly) This is exacerabated by the fact she can buff PETS, which means {{champion:143}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:90}} all can proc pet burn hexes with Senna. Furthermore, all her buffs CRIT with a Jeweled Gauntlet....... You basically turn your entire team of 10-18 units into her army of attack extensions. (I probably shouldn't be saying all this since it will 100% get nerfed)
: I guess the game only allows 10. So if someone uses neeko on it, then there is one less that someone can buy. But if there are already 10 on the board, then no one else can get one. Even with Neeko
Depends on whether the neeko is used before or after it iis expended. P.S. I've had a 3 Star Lux :) It was Ocean on a 6/7 Ocean/Mage :)
SirEnds (NA)
: Why did Qiyana get a second skin before Sylas?
She fit their attempt at a hip hop group. Their focus was champion ethnicity.
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=71Hv2WvL,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T16:18:44.126+0000) > > If I recall correctly, she can still Riposte a Malphite Ult. It won't stop him from travelling, but it will stop her from taking damage, getting knocked up, etc, and after that, she will kill Malphite. ok then ill put it this way AFTER she Ws for some reason thats his "ok i won now" time to kill her no matter what she will lose at that point early/mid/ kinda late beyond that though she deals more true dmg then vayne.
If it's a good fiora and Malphite is in play, she will be saving it.
: Whats your weakness that holds you back?
Me? I'm used to trusting my teams and going in on my setups so much that when I go down to low elo to experiment, I overextend too much, trusting a team to go in....... and then they just stand still and watch, or at best, come in 4 seconds later. I also overestimate their ability to be saved, and sometimes try to help someone caught out when I should just let them die. High Elo Support problems in low elo...
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=71Hv2WvL,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-12-11T06:44:08.303+0000) > > doesn't matter much since she only has to hit you 5 times and the reflected damage isn't enough to kill her. Once she gets going she's nearly always a guaranteed killer unless it's her vs a team. tell malphite that.
If I recall correctly, she can still Riposte a Malphite Ult. It won't stop him from travelling, but it will stop her from taking damage, getting knocked up, etc, and after that, she will kill Malphite.
Boomer (OCE)
: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-513-notes#patch-ability-power-itemization I think you should look at this, if you think season 4 was the same as season 5. Luden's was added in season 5 as well. Season 5 also introduced mastery keystones, which added a ton of power to the game compared to season 4.
That's a link to 5.13..... and some AP items shrunk while others increased. The per game AP stayed about the same; they just wanted to move away from {{item:1058}} so they restructured item components. Luden's replaced Deathfire Clasp, which was 120 AP 10% CDR. No Keystones increased or decreased AP. However, Season 2014/15 Capstone Mastery did have a heal/magic damage enhancing mastery. Furthermore, the addition of Keystones HEAVILY favored AD; Thunderlord's only affected (like now) about 10 Mages. The rest of its users were all AD. All Ferocity Keystones were designed for AD, except in a couple special cases (Xerath/Ziggs) Deathfire Touch. Stormraider's Surge was designed for Assassins, but was heavily underused because of Thunderlord's superiority. The only Keystone that really saw reliable service in Season 5 outside of AD was Windspeaker's Oath for healers/enchanters.
: > [{quoted}](name=p3tm4ster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=71Hv2WvL,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T05:50:40.049+0000) > > You just literally said what I said. You might want to re-read what I said. Nah I read it correctly >And melee had a ton of survivability but not that much damage. Except melee's have always done more damage then ranged. Have you never seen a Jax in the previous seasons? Absolutely obliterates everyone. Melee's SHOULD have more damage than ranged.
I'm pretty sure he's referring to things like Garen and Darius, Sion, who used to really need you to make a LOT of mistakes for them to beat you. Now they generally can just erase in 2 skills with the right runes and items and still have all the qualities they used to. In Season 4-6 Garen only really killed hard if he went {{item:3031}} which sacrificed his viability in living.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=71Hv2WvL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-11T05:02:19.753+0000) > > Hey man, dont forget this sack of unbalanced shit countering anything that is melee because Riot overtuned her passive. {{champion:114}} thorns counters her so hard you cant properly use her vital healing.
doesn't matter much since she only has to hit you 5 times and the reflected damage isn't enough to kill her. Once she gets going she's nearly always a guaranteed killer unless it's her vs a team.
Paroe (NA)
: If you think Udyr cant duel a morde, youve never met an Udyr top with conq. tiger stance, sheen, and a specters cowl.
The problem with that thinking is that usually Morde's shield generation and flat damage usually far exceeds Udyr's rate of bleed on Q, and his sustain on W. In the time Udyr can bleed off the shield, Morde has already killed him twice, and even with these items, he can literally outdamage the regen gained.
: It is very good that the game isn't balanced around 1v1s then right? Like what is the point of this? "Rito I can't win in a 1v1 champion must be broken/weak! Buff/nerd plox!"?
Still.... itemization used to be a counter to direct champion counters. Rarely is that case anymore, as Riot has reworked secondary utility out of most kits and compensated with more damage. Akali: When reworking her, she initially still had her heal. She was generally accepted as having too much. However, instead of lowering her per instance damage and making her shroud a little tamer right off the bat...... they removed her heal entirely, and buffed her per instance damage as compensation. Eve: Pre rework, used to be versatile to be able to itemize to deal with counters. Now..... one build style, and her win rate is more about being countered or not than itemization. They've done this across the map to Ekko, Sion, Pyke, Kass, etc etc..... just to streamline and no brain the itemization and reduce the angles from which players complain. As a result, games are predictable before they even start
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7EXFxLQj,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-09T22:25:12.744+0000) > > I don't care what her win rate as adc is. I really don't. It's not HER. It's her SUPPORTS creating chain CC. > > Sylas was heavily buffed. Otherwise, his release was muted. > > Yuumi started out 34% until people discovered Presence of Mind, and she got 2 rounds of buffs before they did for training wheels. > > Qiyana had a muted release of about 46%, and almost NEVER had a significant ban period. Higher elo started complaining a little bit because she DOES have cheese potential, but on average, she was never in a window of "fear me." > > Neeko on Hit was a specific area of her kit people feared. Never really had a blown up win rate. On hit capped at 53%. Nerfed once, and faded from the pages of popular play. > > Zoe: Released with lowest win rate prior to Yuumi. Had 1 hit kill potential BUT it never translated into toxicity until AFTER they started reworking her away from the 1 hit high skill shot and toward a more well rounded kit anyone could abuse (heavily buffing W). People cried wolf. Changed her into a kit that now has 3 ways to kill you. Yet is still performing average at best. > > Pyke: never had a significant bloated win rate. Was accused of being OP, and Riot saw the complaints which were directed at him building some tank items. It wasn't until after they removed his tank viability and introduced his Lethality scaling that he went 53%+ and then they reworked him again; not to balance him, but to imbalance him to the point that now he's basically a R bot. > > Aatrox had polarized matchups. I didn't consider him broken, but melee ranged tops did. > > Akali I'm on the fence about. Never had a win rate worth worrying about due to her issue being high skill cap, and I've seen both good and bad akalis, and I've been able to counterplay the good ones. I can understand why people never liked it though, so I plead "neutral." > > ------------------------ > > Here's what irritates me with these claims of new = broken/OP: > > There are old champs who systematically outperform these champs once they are naturalized. Some have even had their nerfs reverted because the nerfs were never needed in the first place. But....... I don't see ambitious forumers railing on how broken the old champions are. > > In reality what most people are complaining about: They are resistant to change, don't want to adapt to a larger game of choices, and new champions represent change, even if they would balance themselves out over time. These constant fallacies you throw out are bemusing. Senna being stronger than any other champion and having an insane winrate means it's her. She's the constant variable, not her supports. Her supports don't dominate with other ADCs/Carries with their "chain" CC. Morgana and Leona aren't ROFL stomping people together. It's Senna. She's stronger than any other ADC in the game at almost every point in the game. She gets insane damage, range and she can heal herself and allies. Any weaknesses she has early are quickly scaled out by the 20 minute mark and she is extremely difficult to deal with. https://u.gg/lol/champions/senna/duos?role=adc She dominates with almost every single Support in the game. So please cut the BS with this "Oh it's her supports" or "Oh people INT her in the Jungle". It's complete nonsense and nobody's buying it.
1) Nautilus literally has a 54-56% WIn rate with at least 10 different adc duos, and is naturally a higher win rate than Senna Support. 2) Morgana has at least a 53% win rate with 8 different adc combos. 3) Leona has at least a 54% Win rate with at least 9 different adc combos. She is not stronger than any adc. Caitlyn absolutely stomps on her. Most adcs do in direct trades. But when she is an adc, she has someone else trading for her. If it was her, her Support win rate would be much higher. Furthermore, this is preseason and 4 out of 5 games are absolute troll, stats are not actually significant to serious season play. Most elos are being trolled/smurfed right now at best, because people simply don't play high elo when off season. There's a reason Diamond + has such a small game sample size now.
: Part of your problem with thinking Senna is balanced is that you’re straight up trolling with your build paths.
Nah. I'm discounting the Grasp games and looking at the Aery games. P.S. Grasp builds aren't actually troll. They actually work, but the goal isn't damage output; it's bait. The game you're probably looking at had a Katarina in it. I baited her to death 6-7 times, simply by pretending to be an adc while what I really was..... was a sustaining tank who could bait out her ult, get out while she's W'd, and set her up to lose her grievous wounds, and take her apart. Her kills are all when I wasn't involved :) I often do this with Morgana too, building {{item:3075}} or {{item:3065}} vs hyper deleting aggressors, like for example Irelia, Kha, or Ashe, or Bruisers she's ill-equipped to deal with like Garen or Darius. Works REALLY well, and often outdamages a pure AP build vs those comps. I did just build Fleet Footwork as support, and I think that rune comp is also a huge part of why people think she is broken. The sticking power of FF + her passive move speed + Muramana's proc really makes her stick out as someone you can't escape from. You don't get that feel when you go Aery, and Dark Harvest is HEAVILY team dependent on how it performs.
: The jungle changes weren't good
I've jungled once since the patch came out. I went {{champion:25}} Result: I got level 6 before bot lane still. Ganked 2 lanes prior to 6 too, resulting in 2 kills. Morgana is seen as a mid tier jungle clear. So what I fail to see: Why traditional junglers are struggling to even hit level 5 by the time I hit 6 at bot lane as support. Are you all still ignoring krugs?
: > [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IxYyGwfP,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-09T04:22:35.029+0000) > > Or you hit the target with a non CC ability, erase the shield, and then CC..... > > Or just target the one without the shield.... > > Sorry. The cooldown is nearly twice as long as most CC poke. I mean sure, as a morgana main urself u can defintly understand that champions like ekko exist and thye have to set up their stun A FUCKING SKILLSHOT, and by purely existing morgana just makes him unable to gank bot, but yes, breaking the shield should help, right? It's that easy, and then u can CC the target! I SHOULD'VE THINK ON THAT!. U defintly didnt understand one bit of what i was saying so there is no point in talking to you.
Ekko does not need to stun to kill. Atm his damage is outright enough, and I'd argue you trying to defend him, as overloaded as he is, are weakening your argument. Morgana's one of the FEW ways a team can mitigate ekko right now, and even she is vulnerable to his outright damage output if he manages to hit an E. His Q and E both can break her shield, and then W as people run.
: You literally sound like a little bitch. nananana i work 12 hour days 56 hours a week. My kid has autism. Do you even understand how fake this shit sounds? A person that has to work 12 hour shifts and has to take care of mentally challenged child DOES NOT HAVE TIME FOR 800 RANKED GAMES IN SINGLE SEASON. I COULDNT PULL THOSE NUMBERS WHEN I WAS AT HIGH SCHOOL. And if its true, dude I am sorry but what the fuck are you even doing with your life. Find a better job so you dont have to work your ass off instead of queing for another game. Also shut the fuck up with Senna support. Senna support is strong enough carry to carry games herself. If you are diamond 2 you can carry from any role. You literally pick morgana. Just build ap.
If that sounds fake, it says more about you than me. P.S. The fact you call someone with Autism mentally challenged suggests you don't have a clue what Autism is, and you really should go volunteer a bit to discover. I firmly believe that Autism is a blessing in disguise, because my son Auggie is extremely intelligent. He just has trouble expressing it. I get to potentially enjoy my son's innocence for many more years than the neurotypical child's parent. In many ways, his development is easier than an neurotypical child, simply because neurotypical children are outwardly destructive, more vindictive, and far more divisive. My son is loyal, dependent, and operates through guidance. I know there are challenges with a child with autism going through school and then adulthood. Hence why I'm also active in my community as a supporter of our local AAMP program, and I am in the process if developing a job world for my son (if he should so choose to accept it) involving self employment/ industrial greenhousing, where I also plan to employ my local community's adults with special needs, once it's established. So yeah. I do have a plan. I am active in getting there. My 56 hour a week job does get in the way of it. But..... you do what you have to until you can afford it, or until your family gets on board (my father owns/farms about 1000 acres, and I need some of that to accomplish this). And honestly: My father knows about this game and the fact that for about 2 years I played it while babysitting my child after he was born - without work. Me working this 56 hour job is increasing my credibility with him. Not only that, I'm also active in structuring and framing this job I spend so much time on; When I got there, the company had just underwent a buyout, and the specific room in which I am working essentially had no rules. I'm using my business acumen in finance/economics to actively create that structure, with the involvement of the department superintendent. In other words; I'm not just doing factory work; I'm meeting my quotas (the same ones they set for my coworkers) while I'm stand-alone creating all the forms for my room to use, managing out technology, doing all my room's maintenance, doing all the ordering of parts, doing all the relations between the company and our vendors. My output is 50% higher than the next best person in my job, and I am credited with 32% of total production on a 4 man team. But yeah. Not doing anything with my life. I live on 4 hours of sleep. My wife manages the day to day family planning. P.P.S. You try to find a better job in middle America in an area with 5000-11000 population towns. In the real world, employers take as much leverage as they can in controlling workers, and in small town America, that means fixed wages based on job title, not seniority, long hours, and no other options. High skill trade jobs are few and far between, and the person who gets those jobs generally is in that job for 30+ years. Try finding a job with a BA in economics in this size community. I dare you. I can't. If I want to, my only option is to create that job. Which means I need a job market. Which means I need a customer. Which means I need a product worth buying. Good luck. Senna is not strong enough as support to carry a game.
: Lee sin has 124 base AD at level 18 so he gets 62 from steraks. Yeah right after transcendence came out, and then people realized if was stupid and stopped doing it.
No. They were winning hard and getting 40 KDA games because no one could penetrate their 3600 HP before he just deleted them. But instinct says not to repeat items, so they moved away from it and back toward normal builds. It's still extremely viable.
Boomer (OCE)
: You're one step ahead with AP though. Your season 5 example of 914 AP is when ADs were getting 400+ AD Before that, when ADs were getting around 300 AD, is when mages were getting 600-700 AP. That's what I'm arguing here. Damage creep is not something that has discriminated against anyone, even tanks. So, if that's your stance, then we're actually on the same page. I'm just being pedantic about your exact numbers and timeframes.
Season 5 stats were 914. Season 4 Stats were almost just as high, except ROA had 10 less AP, and Death Cap was 30%, not 35%. That's it. Everything else was the same. I'm not going to comment on Season 3 or before, because I joined in Season 3 and wasn't a fluent player until Season 4.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: I used to main Pyke, but I loathe him now. His tank build was the healthiest, but now he is like the Draven of Supports: if he gets ahead, then he is extremely oppressive because of his R. I actually liked back then that he is an assassin who needs to build Support items and he gets some AD from it, but they just killed his utility and transformed into an abominable something. I'm not even touching him and I'm banning him because he is just extremely unhealthy. Revert him back to the tank Pyke state. As for Senna, I'm maining her, but to be honest I had only like 2 games when I could get as many stacks to activate the lifesteal? Games need to go really long for it to activate and even then you will need +25% Crit Chance from items. And as you mentioned infinite scaling has the cost of not gaining AD through leveling. I'm not going to talk about Senna, because everything has been said, which needed to be said. What I'm going to talk about more is that heinous double standard. Senna is a damage oriented Support, just like Bard. Bard full combo can make the ADC's hitpoints vanish by like 40%. Senna is poke oriented and she needs to pull of 2 autos, therefore her attack pattern is easy to read. She is negated by sustain. And how in the hell is she overtuned, when Nautilus can do everything so much better than Leona and a Leona all in still deals so less damage than Nautilus Q + AA + E combo. Also Leona needs to commit herself, Nautilus can activate W and walk away. This is an example of overtuned. Also how come supports dealing damage become a problem, when Lux, Zyra could instakill the ADC with an all in? Can Senna even do that? xD I thought not.
#The simple answer is: People are seeing the games as her as Adc, building dual on hit items ({{item:3042}} {{item:3147}} and thinking that damage applies to all Senna play. I just had a game where Senna was more or less deleting as adc, because she had a Volibear support, https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3230767988/243999882?tab=stats But look at her damage vs the Nocturne top or the Teemo, or even Caitlyn or Veigar. Nice KDA. Exchanges looked oppressive. But the damage was actually pretty tame, because of her fire rate. As far as her heals went: I had about the same heals as her as a Jungle Morgana. She healed for 8300 to allies. And this was with a 0/15 Nautilus. In other words, she should have had a hyper snowball, but instead, she has mediocre damage and mediocre heals.
: I like how you go a redundant build with transcendence in runes and CDR boots and Blue buff. A normal build on lee sin is {{item:1412}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}} Thats 124 base + 5 from runes + 60 + 40 + 62 + 45 = 336 even with double AD runes and swapping for {{item:3812}} last item he gets 421 AD.
Lee Sin only gets 60 AD from a {{item:3053}} and generally doesn't need the shield.... GA and Randuin's are just choices people are making to run the averages. 4-5 Black Cleaver actually was meta right after Transcendence came out.
: That's cool for practice mode. You know why you don't see it in your actual games ? Because it's as trash meme build.
Nope. Lee Sin 5 Cleaver was actually a meta build right after Transcendence came out. 3600 HP on a snowball early game sniping champ is the definition of broken. But..... as time went on, people stopped building it in favor of playing more to the averages.
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Illabethe

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