Reav3 (NA)
: They are currently on hold while the splash team focuses on Eve
: Everytime i play against Ornn i get to see what it's like to play against Sion
: 1 More minor buff for Sion
Ever look back at Sion pre tank "Update" and realize if he got the buffs he got he would be busted, but thanks to the Tank ~~fuck up~~ Update hes doing terrible? Despite 2 strings of buffs that previously would have been bonkers on him? I do, and my distaste for ADCs grows.
: Nasus being neglected does not make it okay for him to be overpowered in his current state
Kite him out, engage in teamfights cause he sucks in them, have your ADC and a tank casually gank him and shit on him. Its very simple, I even main the bastard, and hes got gaping weaknesses you are not capitalizing on
: This is the first time ADCS have been relevant this entire season, and it's not even because of ADCS. It's actually because of a single item lol. I'll tell you here and now once Ardent is nerfed most adcs will cease to exist.
Oh dear god you are serious. You actually think the mandatory class that frequently invades other lanes and roles will magically disapear if ardent gets nerfed. I dont know whether to laugh at you or pity you.
: now, where to find half a minion...
: > [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t7q52d8N,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-01T20:37:22.759+0000) > > i'd say this is better on champions who are gonna be buying Titanic > > it's not a lot but it's still free damage why shouldnt sion buy titanic though? its not like the item doesnt do work on him. he can easily sneak in auto attacks after his q and his ult. if you add or make that a titanic reset it deals a shitload of damage.
You just don't get the chance to auto much with sion. At least with CDR heavy builds and the enemy kiting you. And you just end up needing other items more. It's good the few times you can afford to build it. Source: mastery 7 sion.
: Only issue is, that nowadays tanks are so strong so marksmen essentially needs that damage to be relevant in the face of a tank. If they don't stack crit and armor pen then their damage won't be noticed. I main Seju for jungle just to mess with other other teams heads x)
Tanks aren't strong, stoneplate is stron. It's ended up as more of a crutch item for tanks than sunfire ever was
: Crits are a good design. Especially in MMOs you can see how crit works on burst heros, dps mages whatever. Difference is firstly: crit doesn't go to 80%+. Fights on PVE go several minutes on a single target and even in PvP it can take a long time, DPS is mostly useless in a PvP environment since you need to burst down healers/DDs unless you can AOE dot people to death. All riot legimately needs is to lower the AD on marksmen if they are meant to have so much crit and AS so they don't crit for 700-800 per AA when an average champ has like 2200 HP.
: or a revert to his old old old self where q wasn't even worth maxing and people really maxed E as the meta.
That was early season 2 right? Wasn't he considered a joke at the time as well
: Old AD Sion. Melee champions having better base stats than ranged champions. Force of nature. Eleisa's miracle. Zephyr. Purchaseable wards and no cap on wards placed. Lack of jungle and support items. Nobody has special class items. Nothing is balanced around some gimmicky item.
Old Ad sion was my first love when I started league. Bullying release Yasuo in lane and late game with him was a joy nothing else in the game has quite been able to satiate. I love the rework but man it was fun going around with your ult chopping away at people
: Ironic thing is tanks are early-mid game champs, and the strongest way to out-scale a tank is with % armor pen and crit damage (or a ton of true damage, but that's less normal) After a tank's first full armor item, lethality begins to become pretty ineffective unless you're already far ahead in levels (something pretty uncommon for an ADC in a duo lane)
Tanks actually sick early usually on account of not actually being Tanky yet. Most spike mid game but many do well late game
: {{champion:17}} is a fucking rat. How should he be able to damage {{champion:136}} or{{champion:31}}
He's not a rat, he's Satan himself! Ofc he can hurt them
: genuinely curious how Zac is supposed to be a healthier champion than he was
I'm more curious as to how the tank rework was anything but a failure all around with how they treated the tanks.
Dr Poro (EUW)
: That's not even correct assuming they all have the same ban rate. This calculation reflects the chance that 3 people would ban the same champion, or two people banning a specific champion. First off, there are 137 champions since Kayn's release. The outcome for the bans of your team doesn't matter, the only thing you have to calculate is that the other team bans the exact same 5 champions, aka 5 specific champions. This would be (5/137) x (4/136) x (3/135) x (2/134) x (1/133) or shorter: 5! x 132! / 137! = 2.676894x10^-9 = 0.0000000027... Explanation: The first player can ban any of the 5 bans of your team 5/137. The second player has to ban one of the remaining 4, but can't ban the same as the previous one because bans have to be unique. So the entire champion pool also goes one down. same thing goes for the next players. This whole calculation assumes that every champion has the same chance of getting banned and that no one leaves their ban open. Of course bans are left open occasionally, lowering the chance a bit, but some champions are banned a lot more often, which means that the actual chance of this happening is much much greater.
: A moment to appreciate how well Riot's artist executed the "horror" theme on Butcher Urgot's splash
Vexilus (NA)
: are you saying you prefer green arnold swarzewhatsit over the pain train?
I mean I'd give my right arm just to play Old AD sion again but new one was a perfect rework from a kit perspective
Comentários de Rioters
: nah trundle got his number
You literally just walk away with wither after he ults and waits for it to expire. After that trundle is done for. That being said if you fail to notice he ulted you are in trouble.
: If only we had a diver update.
Yeah, let's give riot another go at ruining tanks/fighters kits and items while buffing ADC items more!
: > [{quoted}](name=Lyseth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AAPh7hFL,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-06T16:11:12.704+0000) > > the problem is, he's a late game champ in an early game meta. He's not a late game champ realistically. He peaks mid game, falls off late but becomes relevant again super late when he can two shot towers.
Realistically, you are correct. However most Nasus mains play him with a late game fantasy in mind. His mid peak and late drop off is a problem of balance, not player intent
: > [{quoted}](name=JSTIN8,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=V64d9jT8,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-07-02T20:01:05.602+0000) > > My favorite cheese was AD sion pre rework. Start E and with the right runes you can waltz into lane with at least 100 AD. you mean pre- rework fiora?
Man Fiora wishes she could manfight like old AD Sion. Im a big fan of his rework but Old AD Sion was my first true love in league. Cheesy Arnold voice and all.
: Most top laners can pressure him and force him to use his heal or even zone him off of getting rage in the first place after level 2. Respect his level 1 potential and you're good to go
My favorite cheese was AD sion pre rework. Start E and with the right runes you can waltz into lane with at least 100 AD.
Aeszarck (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=kasfas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqI0dEgz,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-01T15:53:54.513+0000) > > That also brings up the question, how the hell did sion's winrate drop from nuber 5 to number 33?! > > The help caused that? His skill max hasn't changed at all, and his counters aren't doing any better than they were before. > > I think it's a combination of doran's nerfs and sunfire changes because like I had said before tanks want the spike from getting bami's and not have to wait for an extra 200 gold. Sion has been one of the most reliable top laners I've seen. He's normally at the top of the winrate charts and it's so odd that he would drop so far without any direct changes.
Tank item changes sucked dick. News at 11
: Hence why they need buffs. Champions that are supposed to do well against her are not performing as they should.
I suppose my point was that her kit as it stands allows her to simply outplay and punish her counters regardless if her player is skilled as her. Short of promoting and buffing unhealthy champs like pantheon or Trynd.
: This is correct. They said they believed she was in a good spot, and it is her counters that currently struggle more than they should. Thus they plan to buff her counters rather than nerf her. EDIT: I don't understand why people downvoted you, all you did was say "Riot said X"
Counters? What counters? All of her "Bad matchups" are a skill check at worst. Even when Darius was at his height and supposedly could bully her out of lane it was noted that she could very much win the lane at any point if she played her cards right.
: {{champion:9}} Has sustain, still sucks.
i remember looking at the jungle changes at the start of the season and thinking about how bad fiddles would be if they went through. And here we are.
: If you're not a carry role, than what are you? You're a Tank or a Support. Those guys are dedicated around enabling others to do their job safely. What is a Tank's job other than to protect others? If your role is to win the game, it doesn't matter if you're doing Damage, you're considered a Carry. It's like in Magic, your Wincon may not be Damage, but if you aim to win the game fast, you're still considered Aggro.
oh dear god its like everything i wrote just got ignored. OK lets reset, in Dota 2 there is a hero called axe, he is a tank and is known for the fact that he can blink in, taunt the enemy carry, pop his blademail, and with any luck the enemy hero kills himself on his rock hard abs. Axe isnt doing the damage, hes still a tank and by no means a carry, but is still carrying the game. In hots there is a hero called azmodan. He is slow, one of his abilities and his passive doesnt even do anything for pvp, and his 2 abilites that do damage are easily negated by any champion with mobility. But he can carry a game hard because he has near global presence, and can push waves and demolish towers like nobody else. He is not going to top the charts in hero damage most of the time, but he can still carry hard because he has amazing push potential and objective control. There is, and there should be more to a game than what your hero does in regards to the carry role. Cause its dumb if all you do is dive their carry or peel for yours.
: The issue with the tank update was that they updated 3 junglers and buffed the monster damage of Cinderhulk, but nerfed all top laner tank items and didn't update any top laners.
It feels so bad even looking at sunfire now, much less buying it.
: > I just want for everyone on our team to feel like they're an important variable for our victory, Excuse me if I get political, but I'm just kinda sick of this feeling stuff. "Oh, everyone needs to feel like they're contributing, everyone deserves a chance," why don't we go grab some trophies afterwards and grab some Pizza. Sure sure, exaggerations, maybe personal bias, but that just isn't how it is. I actually feel like we've forgotten what Tank's purposes are nowadays, because in reality, they are actually very subservient. Their jobs are to start fights and to peel, to lay down the hand that is caught, to stop those assholes from murdering people. Sure, variation of champ differs from that principle, but the value of a tank has always been how much damage is soaked, and how much they can peel/engage. One of the examples here was the D-va Meta in Overwatch, (God damn her!). She could single-handily absorb Ults, take lots of hits due to her Armor, and get back that Health instantly when Ulting or surviving long enough out of suit. She could get around fast as well, and before the nerfs, she could also kill some immobile dudes. Now, different game, different mechanics, especially considering how tanks can kill in Overwatch, but look in how they've also limited damage in Overwatch for tanks. Almost all are completely low range, even Orisa with her damage drop-off, which means a Tank alone can't deal with certain characters. Hell, Mercy outheals Reinhardt and Winston damage alone, and anyone outside of lucky Roadhog hook can't deal with Pharah. That means, you guessed it, they *have* to rely on DPS to do things that they can't. Reinhardt can do damage alone, but if he's focusing on damage over tanking, you've got a bad Reinhardt (Unless Nanoboosting, but that's not the point.) Dps is the Heart of all games, it's what pushes the game forward. I don't understand what people mean about "being an important variable" when your job is to protect and/or engage. What else do you want a Tank to do?! Like, their entire role is protection, how is a Tank not "an important variable" when they're been successfully making engages or keeping assholes off their Carry?
Just because a class isn't defined as a carry role doesn't mean their only job in the game is to enable whoever is. Dota 2 and Hots have many heroes that are not damage dealers that can carry and feel really impactful and carry in their own way without being shackled to their carry player. And to claim that all roles should be forced into putting every facet of their being into how they interact with the carry role is selfish in the extreme.
Ralanr (NA)
: It's never "both ADCs suck" is it?
It's a magical time for all when that happens. Fights last longer and it feels like all the other roles get to show off their skill more
: Instesd of having a tank meta riot decided to make it so that every AD champion can be a tank with high damage.
When everyone is a tank, no one will be
: KV not only has MS to help stay in range, staying grouped really isn't difficult in the first place. PD gives MS to help dodge or kite, and switching targets isn't hard either. DD effectively reduces damage by how much you can heal within those 3 seconds. EG: 15 Hp5 and 50 drain/sec is practically 159 damage reduction _after all other resistances_. And then to make matters worse, percentage damage resistance scales exponentially, so these items have a natural synergy with each other.
That means they don't reduce when they are stacked right?
: You're not wrong, not entriely at least. Because Riot does always buff marksmen, or at least a few of them, any time any other class grows so strong that the marksmen are suppressed by it. But marksmen don't have it easy either you know? Any half decent ADC would know that the support is the entire reason they can exist botlane, they will praise their supports like they praise the sun in dark souls. If they don't then they really do deserve to get roasted, and i am speaking as someone with both marksmen and supports at lvl 7 x) And while i have played with bad players on both sides i have also played with plenty of good people too, who realized the importance of their role or how much work i put in to keep them safe and steady. And while i do understand your frustration at marksmen being enforced i do want you to consider this, if marksmen weren't around everyone would probably be playing skirmishers like fiora, yasuo and...tryndamere? Kayle? Because the marksmen are the strongest counters toward those who are so extremely hard to shutdown with burst. But marksmen are also the greatest reason supports exist, without them the general healer or peel support would be less relevant and instead you´d go for duo mage botlane for CC and burst chains. Tanks would be fairly bad too, after all their resistances would be nerfed so mages can hurt them and then they´d be pointless. Not to mention how useless they are anyway against Fiora, Darius and Trynda. Assassins also generally profit from marksmen existing, because they and the supports are the most favored targets, mages generally have stuff like {{item:3157}} or powerful CC or other self preservation or just massive range to keep them safe. So the remaining ones would be skirmishers, juggernauts and mages, the others would remain to some degree but they´d be far weaker in comparison. But are people wrong to be frustrated? No. Because it's often true that the botlane that wins will snowball and be able to carry games, many play that role as a duo which is far more potent than any other combo. And isn't it frustrating then, that two people out of 5 can keep a game going even if the others players on the same team were smashed? It is really, i won't argue otherwise. But it's also unfair to make judgement and statements about marksmen based on their snowball, please do consider their base points. I really think it's kinda unfair that everyone keeps calling {{champion:22}} {{champion:96}} and {{champion:110}} OP when it's {{champion:119}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:236}} and {{champion:51}} that have dominated for so long. Instead it's all thrown under the same banner and suddenly all marksmen are OP and bullshit even if their win and playrates aren't even good.
Buddy if you think marksmen would up and vanish in favor of Trynd of all people, I don't even know what to say. You praise supports because they devote everything they do to your success. Being greatful is expected. And if you think for one moment if marksmen weren't made mandatory would bring balance crashing down then congrats on learning how every other class has felt in this game. From Mage "supports" in bot lane to fighters replacing tanks and Assasins and Mages constant struggle for dominance mid lane, which happens to also now involve more marksman. Fuck off with the "game couldn't be balanced without us" attitude.
: I mean honestly, if you think about it, focusing everything on dodging is boring too. Sure, it's enjoyable, it looks cool, and it takes practice, but a lot of times this ends up turning the fight into an all or nothing. You get hit once, there's a solid chance you're not surviving in some games (instant KO attacks) and other times you'll die soon after (chain attacks or status effects like stuns applied to the first hit.) Riot has a thing against drain tanks when really, drain tanks are, when designed correctly, the definition of skilled play; they take hits, they dodge hits, and when the going gets tough they heal themselves at the enemies' expense. It would be interesting to see how different things would be if we had a drain tank with, for instance, a 3 hit passive to drain. Healing and defensive play is so wildly underrated in games. They're pushed away as boring, or just bad play in general, when in reality it takes just as much practice to know how many hits you can take, or how many hits an ally can take, for instance.
Well if we were to base such things off Dota and Hots, the other 2 big mobas, drain tanks are fine if you give them a way in but make them weak to kiting. I speak of lifestealer and butcher, and both will win any duel if you try to manfight them
: old poppy was way more toxic than pantheon you can't deny that
: Let's start a discussion on Nautilus's Future in League
He's another jungler who got the shaft with the seasonal jungle changes. Krugs are just fucking brutal. He needs more damage or lower cd on his W, and preferably some buffs to mana management so you can do a full clear without running oom
SanKakU (NA)
: Rammus already got changed. He's not even a tank anymore, although I guess I'm okay with that. Took some getting used to for sure, though. I'd be more worried about Sejuani than anyone else. The only champion in the entire game that seems worse than Sejuani right now is Alistar. And I think maybe they broken her on purpose because it's become reasonable for me to think that they broke Alistar on purpose.
Wait rammus isn't a tank? What in release xin xhaos name did they do to him?
Acheron16 (EUW)
: What makes him so very anti-fun: - Doesn't have real resources, he can spam his abilities without much care. He never has decision making like "Mmm, should I Q this or not?", "Should I throw my tornado or not?", because he'll be able to Q again in 2 seconds and throw a tornado again in 6. - His E gives him excessive mobility, making a good Yasuo pretty much immune to skill-shots - His ultimate favours him under towers, literally the only one that does so. If Rek'Sai misses her ultimate she's not left outside of a tower, she pays for it with her life, Yasuo doesn't unless he dives smack-dab in the middle of the tower. - His windwall lasts too much for how powerful it is. For comparison, Shen's W blocks solely auto-attacks, yet only lasts 1.5 seconds. On a tank. Not to mention that the fact that the Windwall spawns from within him it means that it can very briefly block skill shots from behind him, which is completely unfair. I'm ok with the fact that it blocks any projectile that hits it smack in the middle, but it has to last less or have a bigger cooldown than it currently does and cannot block things that come up behind the cast. Even Fiora's Riposte has a much longer cooldown (and an actual mana cost) for how little it lasts. - The fact that he has two passives. I find his shield passive to be ok, if annoying, but his crit passive is completely free and he'd be much easier to balance without it. Riot has claimed many times that it exists in order to have Yasuo not go Tank. So let me get this straight, you give him a passive, on top of another passive, that makes it so that he has to invest less into crit/damage in order to do ~~good~~ great damage so that he buys less tank items? I'm sorry, did I miss something? The last time I checked, having to invest less into damage means that you are free to either invest in even more damage (reaching obscene amounts of damage) OR you can invest into tankyness, so you can apply that free damage more reliably. Wasn't this the reason why he got all those nerfs to his base stats? Yeah, I'm sure playing Yasuo feels great and fun for the player, but I've NEVER, EVER heard someone say "Oh I'm facing an Yasuo, I'm ok with that". In order for him to become tolerable to play against he needs to have his mobility seriously toned down, given meaningful windows where he's mobile and times where he isn't. As it stands, he never lacks mobility since early game he has minions and late game the dash cooldown is so low that in teamfights he also never lacks mobility. The only time he lacks mobility is early game if he has minion disadvantage, that's it.
I mean I thinks it's loads of fun playing against Yasuo. When I'm Darius. Easiest lane of my LIFE
Pyro (EUNE)
: Riot is thinking about buffing the Ancient Coin line. What do you think needs to be done about it?
I would love to see the coin grabbing minigame scrapped. When I grab coin, it's because I'm playing a support that wants to stay back and play it safe. There is not a single instance where I want to go up to the melee minions to grab a damn coin that honestly feels underwhelming. Especially if I'm someone like soraka. Also it's pure RNG, so that sucks.
: I play fiora often, but what does that have to do with anything? she beats trynd in and out of lane and outscales pantheon horribly.
It deals with my unrelenting disgust towards your champ of choice. (Nothing personal, everyone has than one champ they loathe beyond reason)
: Can we please introduce more item variety?
I'm not so sure, last time riot reworked items, sunfire got trashed and GA became bullshit. Adaptive helm just feels bad on most tanks if they have any form of Regen or healing because of SV.
: Nasus has completely lost his ability to carry late game.
Yeah Nasus was the first champ I latched onto when I started in early season 3. My favorite matchups see always the hard, but not impossible ones. (Think Riven, not pre rework vlad). I'd like to hear what you would change about him. I personally just want q stacking to stay myself, but if I recall correctly you don't care too much about it. PS: is this the part where I can bitterly say I told you so to the boards when I said his ult changes wouldn't be able to bring him into viability?
: when is Riot going to realize Garen is the weakest champion in high elo
: "Please dont just cater to the crowd who only has enough of an attention span for 15 minute games." This statement is childish. A good player would adapt to the ever changing game, not complain about it. The game is fine as it is, now there is an actual draw back to doing nothing for the first 15-20 minutes of the game, you have a higher chance of losing and its completely fair. Champions like veigar and kog have to actually do something early game to reach their 'late game' faster or risk losing the game flat out before they get there.
A good player can also see bad changes when they are in front of them. There is no adapting to reworked sej, she was just too powerful. As a player it's not always my job to "adapt" like you so moronically put. It's on the game to change.
: Tired of playing mages against assassins in mid lane and getting countered? Wish you had an assassin-specific counter? Did your toplaner lock in Ryze/Liss/some-other-AP-carry/bruiser? Well look no more! Transform and tank out! :D
I remember taking Nasus mid against zed a few times when me and my midlander would swap to avoid bat matchups
: Ya dont need a response to a voice line WHEN A GODDAMN PILLAR OF BLUE LIGHT IS OVER YE DAMN HEAD
It would be a real dick move if I were to pop my ult right now...
: So if Fiora is supposed to be good against tanks, why does she have an attack speed slow
Because apparently she is supposed to win every 1v1 matchup ever, all the time, even if she is 0/5. At least that's what I got from the Fiora mains on this site.
: @Riot, isn't it about time to remove/rework Frozen Mallet?
Not gonna lie, I love it on Yorick as 5th or 6th item.
: Riven, Fiora, Ahri, Camille and WW are rarely banned in my case.
I'd ban Fiora a lot more if I didn't have to worry about yas
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