CLG ear (NA)
: this guy said As I Lay Dying and Shadows Fall aren't Thrash Metal
Google says that Wikipedia says that "As I Lay Dying is an American heavy metal band from San Diego, California."
: > You spend the entire match arguing with your team, complaining about who should've done what in each fight, saying you're better than they are, telling them they're "crying," insisting that they're toxic, and announcing that you intend to report them. That's a rather gross mischaracterization of the chat. I spend most of the game responding calmly to people who are blaming, arguing about who should do what in each fight, claiming they're better, saying others are crying, saying others are toxic, and urging people to report. You say that asking people to report someone is toxic, which is news to me, because I think 90% of the games I've played people have asked for a report on one person or another. But let's get to the more interesting point: > You were punished for misbehaving in one more game, in a consistent pattern of negative behavior that breaks the game's rules. You claim that, but this was the only game they included in the chat logs, so I have to wonder where you're getting your information. It seems very much a copout to say "Well, we should assume you were crazy toxic in some OTHER game" but also "And that other game wasn't included as an example of toxicity because that wouldn't demonstrate toxicity as well"
> [{quoted}](name=RichardMaclaurin,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=geFO26xG,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T19:17:50.521+0000) > > That's a rather gross mischaracterization of the chat. I spend most of the game responding calmly to people who are blaming, arguing about who should do what in each fight, claiming they're better, saying others are crying, saying others are toxic, and urging people to report. > > You say that asking people to report someone is toxic, which is news to me, because I think 90% of the games I've played people have asked for a report on one person or another. You're not punished based on whether you're having a good time arguing, complaining, and accusing. You're punished based on whether your teammates are okay with it, and they weren't, so you got punished. > [{quoted}](name=RichardMaclaurin,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=geFO26xG,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T19:17:50.521+0000) > > But let's get to the more interesting point: > > You claim that, but this was the only game they included in the chat logs, so I have to wonder where you're getting your information. It seems very much a copout to say "Well, we should assume you were crazy toxic in some OTHER game" but also "And that other game wasn't included as an example of toxicity because that wouldn't demonstrate toxicity as well" I already explained the "only one chat log" question above; please reread the post. The chat log served its purpose: it showed you the misbehavior you engaged in, you're getting specific feedback about it on Boards, and now you know what you should avoid doing in the future if you want to maintain access to your account.
: Just play safe the first 15 mins problem solved.
> [{quoted}](name=Chainman3,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=wNh2Einv,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T18:12:55.575+0000) > > Just play safe the first 15 mins problem solved. With no CC, no utility, and no vision because you can't finish the support item quest while playing safe, 15 minutes is when the first surrender call would go out. With good macro and mechanics, you might be able to draw out the game until 20, at which point you can no longer hold your team hostage and they will forfeit. And probably report you for griefing.
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=49qTAarA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-21T21:54:03.042+0000) > > If you suggest this to your team and they are strongly against it but you do it anyway, that would be breaking the rules. If they're cool with it, then you're good. > > The reason that supporting an ADC at bot lane is meta is that they are weak early but strong late. Protecting them during lane phase allows them to reach that late game power more quickly, safely, and reliably. When you say breaking the rules, what rules do you have in mind, as I am not aware RIOT released any official rules regarding support camping bot lane.
> [{quoted}](name=GetDragonOrLose,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=49qTAarA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-09-22T09:17:22.471+0000) > > When you say breaking the rules, what rules do you have in mind, as I am not aware RIOT released any official rules regarding support camping bot lane. Where in that first paragraph did I mention support going bot lane? The relevant part is whether your team is okay with what you're doing. If your team believes that your strategy is terrible and they ask you not to do it but you do it anyway, that's griefing.
: Builds rylais or frozenmallet problem solved
> [{quoted}](name=Chainman3,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=wNh2Einv,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T11:02:54.647+0000) > > Builds rylais or frozenmallet problem solved Yes, anyone can apply a mild slow after spending a few thousand gold. How is that going to help Kai'Sa save her carry during the first 15 minutes of the game? Is that game going to last more than 15 minutes?
: Posted.
> [{quoted}](name=RichardMaclaurin,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=geFO26xG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T17:23:22.813+0000) > > Posted. You spend the entire match arguing with your team, complaining about who should've done what in each fight, saying you're better than they are, telling them they're "crying," insisting that they're toxic, and announcing that you intend to report them. None of that is positive or neutral, none of that helps your team win. Announcing reports is specifically indicated as toxic. From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player): > Do not threaten or repeatedly tell a player you will report them. Doing so can encourage players who are already negative to continue their behavior. Whether they know they are being reported or not has no bearing to whether the system will act on them. But most importantly, repeatedly threatening or arguing with a negative player can end up derailing the game for everyone else and then open yourself up to reports and possible disciplinary action as well. Avoid negative thoughts and useless chatting with poor performing teammates! Focus on victory by muting the offending player and then reporting them at the end of the game. > > Do not ask other players in the match to report the offending player. It only takes one report for our systems to review a game. Additional reports will not do anything for the offending player; however as mentioned above, it could open yourself up to a report of your own; especially if you are derailing the match by constantly demanding reports of other players. Sorry, but you earned this chat restriction, and it wasn't by playing Mao support. It wasn't even just from this one game. You were punished for misbehaving in _one more_ game, in a consistent pattern of negative behavior that breaks the game's rules. Additionally, the reform card doesn't always show all the logs that led to your punishment: it randomly selects up to several logs. You might see three logs, but you also might see as few as one, even for players whose punishment stems not from a small number of egregious infractions but rather from dozens of instances of mild toxicity. The purpose of the reform card is to tell you how to reform, so it shows you an example of the behavior that prompted your punishment and explains that such behavior is inappropriate and should be avoided if you want to maintain an account in good standing.
: Chat Restricted for playing Maokai Support
Are you going to post that chat log?
: How about kaisa support?
She has no CC, and her only team utility is vision of a target hit by W. If the enemy tries to kill her carry, what does she do about it?
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9FGIjjFW,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T07:04:05.926+0000) > > ? > > No, I didn't. I was explaining that her damage sources other than Q are significant by themselves, but her Q is just more visible. Her Q is strong enough to be all her damage, but she has lots of other damage anyway. > > It's like, Zilean only has one damage spell, right? Literally all his damage other than MaGe AuToZ is loaded into his Q. And it works fine. But what if his E also dealt damage when used on an enemy? And what if reviving someone with his ult damaged all nearby enemies? And how about extra bombs on every autoattack. Because CertainlyT. > > That's what Zoe is, and Riot knows it. QA testers said she was horribly frustrating for everyone but the Zoe player, and Riot released her anyway not in spite of that but [because of it](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/96922n/ghostcrawler_is_moving_off_of_league_of_legends/e3yw1p9/). It is a champion that's intended to piss people off. Okay but why remove so many elements of the game that are "anti-fun" to play against but still allow a champion like Zoe who is the epitome of anti-fun to play against. Make it make sense. Her design is all over the place; Riot frequently tries too hard and breaks the game in doing so. She should have never been added. The entire concept is garbage, and I can't be swayed on that one.
> [{quoted}](name=Poot Lovato,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9FGIjjFW,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T07:20:05.027+0000) > > Okay but why remove so many elements of the game that are "anti-fun" to play against but still allow a champion like Zoe who is the epitome of anti-fun to play against. Make it make sense. > Her design is all over the place; Riot frequently tries too hard and breaks the game in doing so. She should have never been added. The entire concept is garbage, and I can't be swayed on that one. I agree. It doesn't make sense. But that's what they chose to do.
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9FGIjjFW,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-09-19T18:40:50.710+0000) > > You know, people say that all her damage is loaded into her Q, but that only looks like it's true because she can kill you with a Q. In fact, that's only about half the damage in her kit. She _could_ kill people with just a Q, and she sometimes does, but she doesn't need to. She got a round of nerfs after that video where a Zoe in high-tier play killed an opponent without landing a single skillshot. Did you just try to defend the idea that she's not that strong by telling me she doesn't even need to land her actual main source of damage spell in order to beat the shit out of other players? I couldn't have written a better argument for her nerf myself.
> [{quoted}](name=Poot Lovato,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9FGIjjFW,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-09-22T06:43:32.757+0000) > > Did you just try to defend the idea that she's not that strong by telling me she doesn't even need to land her actual main source of damage spell in order to beat the shit out of other players? > I couldn't have written a better argument for her nerf myself. ? No, I didn't. I was explaining that her damage sources other than Q are significant by themselves, but her Q is just more visible. Her Q is strong enough to be all her damage, but she has lots of other damage anyway. It's like, Zilean only has one damage spell, right? Literally all his damage other than MaGe AuToZ is loaded into his Q. And it works fine. But what if his E also dealt damage when used on an enemy? And what if reviving someone with his ult damaged all nearby enemies? And how about extra bombs on every autoattack. Because CertainlyT. That's what Zoe is, and Riot knows it. QA testers said she was horribly frustrating for everyone but the Zoe player, and Riot released her anyway not in spite of that but [because of it](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/96922n/ghostcrawler_is_moving_off_of_league_of_legends/e3yw1p9/). It is a champion that's intended to piss people off.
: Wasnt saying SOME1 ELse Was wORSe im saying I wasnt screaming that im going to report some1 i simply responded. When I say 1 game in referring to after I got the 14 day not before. I said it about what 3 times. Saying youll report some1 3 times is worth a ban right? Gotcha i completely understand thanks for the help. Ill just ignore every1 and everything from now on.
> [{quoted}](name=ChiefBoiRd2,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nPEfU6tf,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T02:06:26.247+0000) > > Wasnt saying SOME1 ELse Was wORSe im saying I wasnt screaming that im going to report some1 i simply responded. When I say 1 game in referring to after I got the 14 day not before. I said it about what 3 times. Saying youll report some1 3 times is worth a ban right? Gotcha i completely understand thanks for the help. Ill just ignore every1 and everything from now on. Yes, after you've been told repeatedly to stop that misbehavior, engaging it it _yet again, immediately after finishing your last punishment_, is an extremely good justification to permaban you. You will indeed be ignoring other players in game from now on, because you won't be in game with them at all, due to being permabanned.
: It's time to Jump over that dunning kruger spike and maybe look at the argument itself ? because 1- "It's not about being wrong with me , it's about Being ignorant and claiming nonetheless." is specifically directed to people not understanding that they are neither data scientist nor machine learning expert (except the ones who are) 2- Whether or not you want to participate in discussion doesn't matter , your identity protective cognition (close to the Self-serving bias) will make you have undesired answer, but i just prove people wrong and they self esteem crumble Just like people on player behavior , when put in front of the reason why they got banned, will exactly do that : "But it's stupid, Kys is just a 3 letter word" People don't like being wrong , i don't like being wrong, that's why i make sure i'm right. But i don't necessarily want to convince you , i want to see how smart you are, i have no interest in discussing futher with you if you are unable to overcome your cognitive bias to discuss FACTS FACTS FACTS. You feel bad ? not my problem , it's yours. I am informed on the subject, trained and have studied specifically neuroscience, data analysis, programming and math, but it would be stupid to try to convince you of that , i'd rather bury you under informations and let you either give up or accept these facts. Tldr : i don't care, the only thing that matters are facts
> [{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=F2x6hjUp,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T02:01:58.198+0000) > > It's time to Jump over that dunning kruger spike and maybe look at the argument itself ? > because > > 1- "It's not about being wrong with me , it's about Being ignorant and claiming nonetheless." is specifically directed to people not understanding that they are neither data scientist nor machine learning expert (except the ones who are) > > 2- Whether or not you want to participate in discussion doesn't matter , your identity protective cognition (close to the Self-serving bias) will make you have undesired answer, but i just prove people wrong and they self esteem crumble > > Just like people on player behavior , when put in front of the reason why they got banned, will exactly do that : "But it's stupid, Kys is just a 3 letter word" > > People don't like being wrong , i don't like being wrong, that's why i make sure i'm right. > > But i don't necessarily want to convince you , i want to see how smart you are, i have no interest in discussing futher with you if you are unable to overcome your cognitive bias to discuss FACTS FACTS FACTS. > > > You feel bad ? not my problem , it's yours. > > I am informed on the subject, trained and have studied specifically neuroscience, data analysis, programming and math, > but it would be stupid to try to convince you of that , i'd rather bury you under informations and let you either give up or accept these facts. > > > Tldr : i don't care, the only thing that matters are facts I guess foolish, stupid, uneducated, ignorant, and dishonest weren't enough, so you've decided to add "you're even dumber than you think you are." What a wonderful discussion we're having! Your posts are so conducive to a civil and useful conversation. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I'm going to have to stop responding to you for a variety of foolish, stupid, uneducated, ignorant, and dishonest reasons that could've been avoided if I had any training [in](https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart/) neuroscience, data analysis, programming, and math.
: Thats not what I meant with the sneezing analogy. And I did scream anything. They told me to stfu wish death upon family members ect and all I responded with was ur being reported. I literally just got back from the 14 day how could there be more than one game already...?
> [{quoted}](name=ChiefBoiRd2,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nPEfU6tf,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T01:46:11.667+0000) > > Thats not what I meant with the sneezing analogy. And I did scream anything. They told me to stfu wish death upon family members ect and all I responded with was ur being reported. I literally just got back from the 14 day how could there be more than one game already...? I already answered the "someone else was worse" topic. Please reread the post. You got a 14-day suspension that told you the next instance of misbehavior would result in a permaban. You say you've been chat restricted for calling for reports before, so you know that's considered misbehavior. And then the first thing you do when you get back is... call for reports. And now you are permabanned.
: What am I supposed to do when my abilities are on CD?
> [{quoted}](name=Bene Velle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A7QnMG7n,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T04:48:34.819+0000) > > I'm honestly thinking if I should try to message him to _Under no circumstances should you attempt to do this._ I guarantee no good would come of it. You know that you played to the best of your ability and weren't just trying to KS, but you will never convince that jerk of this. Just forget about them and move on with your life.
: But for Chat longs it only shows one game. One game in which my teamates are cursing me out. Talking shit and being quiet in a library are two different things also. If anything its like walking into the library sneezing and getting kicked out for doing so. I did mute them and I did reported them. Guess it's my fault for saying that I would report them though" something I had been chat res for b4". I literally did nothing but repeat the threat sent towards me and laughed them off. Guess thats worthy of being permanently banned for.
> [{quoted}](name=ChiefBoiRd2,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=nPEfU6tf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-22T01:23:46.779+0000) > > But for Chat longs it only shows one game. One game in which my teamates are cursing me out. Talking shit and being quiet in a library are two different things also. If anything its like walking into the library sneezing and getting kicked out for doing so. I did mute them and I did reported them. Guess it's my fault for saying that I would report them though" something I had been chat res for b4". I literally did nothing but repeat the threat sent towards me and laughed them off. Guess thats worthy of being permanently banned for. I already answered the "only one game" topic. Please reread the post. Screaming that you intend to report your teammates, and probably encouraging others to do the same, throughout the match, isn't an involuntary biological response like sneezing. It's harassment, and you specifically chose to engage in that behavior - as you say, it is indeed your fault. I'm glad you can recognize that. Yes, permabanning players who refuse to follow the rules under any circumstances is a worthwhile action to take if the goal is a better community.
: Buddy , i'll help you , this is critically relevant to our conversation and it certainly wouldn't hurt you to study a little :3 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity It's not about being wrong with me , it's about Being ignorant and claiming nonetheless. i tell you directly that a system cannot be 100% specific and 100% sensitive on new cases, it have either to - Be specific (Only Ban people that are in fault, and let some un banned) or - Be sensitive (Ban every people in fault, but have some false positive along the way) also you can have 10 HIGHLY qualified people to make a car Or 12000 monkey to do the same task and you just said "Well 12000 monkey making the car wasn't fast already , how would 12 people be faster" Your reasoning is wrong. The reason why is because the judgment was based on "The Wisdom of Crowds" (here a little more to study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds ) crowd Which was biased (and it was a problem) but waiting for enough insignificant vote to make sure something is as accurate as possible makes it VERY long to judge something. OW system don't use that. instead judges are offered loads of cases, and have weight associated with their ranking, once a certain amount of judgment weight has been reached, the case is judged, making for FASTER judgment. Second, you seem to think that rewarding people will make them judge more, i could explain to you why cognitive dissonance can easily prove you wrong , but you're just using your general knowledge https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-baby-scientist/201806/motivating-children-without-rewards Our brain will actually reward us without the need for any external motivation People will do it for the sake of doing it and will actually feel rewarded doing so. Because that's how the cognitive dissonance works (why am i judging if i get nothing ? answer is simple, because i like it. ) if you have never seem someone do something stupid without any rewards, you would probably be a liar or just ignorant to the fact that people , alone in their corner would try to do the bottleflip challenge even if they are no camera and they get nothing for it. That's just how we human are, not very mart monkey doing stuff for no reason other than "we can"
> [{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=F2x6hjUp,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T01:30:01.427+0000) > > Buddy , i'll help you , this is critically relevant to our conversation and it certainly wouldn't hurt you to study a little :3 > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitivity_and_specificity > > It's not about being wrong with me , it's about Being ignorant and claiming nonetheless. > > i tell you directly that a system cannot be 100% specific and 100% sensitive on new cases, it have either to > - Be specific (Only Ban people that are in fault, and let some un banned) > or > - Be sensitive (Ban every people in fault, but have some false positive along the way) > > > > also you can have 10 HIGHLY qualified people to make a car > Or 12000 monkey to do the same task > and you just said "Well 12000 monkey making the car wasn't fast already , how would 12 people be faster" > > Your reasoning is wrong. > The reason why is because the judgment was based on "The Wisdom of Crowds" (here a little more to study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds ) > crowd Which was biased (and it was a problem) > but waiting for enough insignificant vote to make sure something is as accurate as possible makes it VERY long to judge something. > > > OW system don't use that. > instead judges are offered loads of cases, and have weight associated with their ranking, once a certain amount of judgment weight has been reached, the case is judged, making for FASTER judgment. > > > Second, you seem to think that rewarding people will make them judge more, i could explain to you why cognitive dissonance can easily prove you wrong , but you're just using your general knowledge > > https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-baby-scientist/201806/motivating-children-without-rewards > > Our brain will actually reward us without the need for any external motivation > > People will do it for the sake of doing it and will actually feel rewarded doing so. > Because that's how the cognitive dissonance works (why am i judging if i get nothing ? answer is simple, because i like it. ) > > if you have never seem someone do something stupid without any rewards, you would probably be a liar or just ignorant to the fact that people , alone in their corner would try to do the bottleflip challenge even if they are no camera and they get nothing for it. > > That's just how we human are, not very mart monkey doing stuff for no reason other than "we can" Ah, "foolish and stupid" wasn't enough. Now you're going with "uneducated and ignorant." I love condescension! It makes me more likely to participate in a discussion, just like removing incentive and participants would make Tribunal more likely to work better and faster. Oh! And you ended with the implication that I could be a liar. I sure am glad I read your entire post.
Cakelynn (NA)
: All of my rune pages have been deleted
It also resets your skin selections to default for every champion, resets your party status to open, etc. Moderately common issue and very annoying.
: dota dishs out 19 year bans
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/k1fETiew-meanwhile-over-in-dota-land
: Permanent ban after 1 game
So, it has come to this: someone displayed misbehavior in a LoL match in flagrant disregard for the game's rules, ToS, EULA, and Summoner's Code. That's unfortunate, and I'm sorry you had to deal with it. If this misbehavior happened in chat (including emotes or ping) and they don't respond positively to a _single, courteous, constructive request to focus on the game_, your best option is to mute that player. Submit a report after the match. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by asking them to keep it down and then notifying library staff and moving to another area. _Do not respond with misbehavior of your own!_ If you do that, your teammates may mute and report _you_, and those reports would be valid. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by getting into a shouting match with them. Just because someone else started it doesn't justify you in continuing it. I'm sure you're familiar with the "s/he started it" trope, where two children get into an argument or fight and then try to claim innocence of any wrongdoing by claiming that they didn't instigate it. As any parent, teacher, or other supervisor of children will tell you, that excuse doesn't fly. When Dad is trying to drive you to Disneyland and your annoying brother starts making faces at you as he's previously been told not to, you should calmly ask him to stop, and then, if that doesn't work, calmly notify your parents of the problem. Making faces at him or shouting at him has never been a good way to get him to stop, and it makes you just as guilty of that as he. Riot doesn't care who started it. Someone else's misbehavior does not justify your own. From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-): > * Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game.If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on. > * Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the [Reporting a Player FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player) If you misbehave but a teammate or opponent does or says something even worse, you should definitely report them after the match, just as someone reported you for your own misbehavior. Yes, that's certainly possible. Reports are not a limited resource. Any time someone believes that another player violated LoL's behavioral standards, they can report that player. Punishments are similarly not limited: if more than one player in a game merits a punishment, they can both get a punishment. This can happen even if the players in question were antagonizing each other. The IFS doesn't need to weigh the severity of all reported players' actions and then "award" the "winner" with a punishment; it's not a contest. Think of it like dealing with a noisy person in a library: ask them to keep it down, and then notify library staff and move to another area if that doesn't work. If you get into a shouting match with them, you're just as likely to be removed, even if you weren't shouting _quite_ as loudly as they were. The goal is a quiet library. Your opinion of the rules is of zero relevance. When a cop stops you for going 40 in a 25 zone, you can claim "I think the limit should be 45 here" all you want. You're still getting a ticket. If a librarian asks you to keep your voice down while you use the facilities, shouting that libraries should be loud will simply get you escorted out. If you go to a friend's house who insists that you remove your shoes while you're in their home, "that's a stupid rule and I do what I want" will lose you a friend. If you are using someone else's services, facilities, equipment, etc., you abide by their rules or you deal with the consequences. If you think the rules should change, that is a completely different conversation (and I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for your chances at convincing Riot to change their rules to allow behavior like yours). From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024051193-Understanding-Different-Ban-Types-FAQs): > We work with the overall community and within our own company guidelines to identify what disruptive behavior is and what the consequences for those behaviors should be. We understand that it can be difficult to know where the line is, which is why we provide chat logs and we have a few tiers in the ban process in order to allow for you to learn and grow. You weren't punished for misbehaving in one game. You were punished for misbehaving in _one more_ game, in a consistent pattern of negative behavior that breaks the game's rules. Additionally, the reform card doesn't always show all the logs that led to your punishment: it randomly selects up to several logs. You might see three logs, but you also might see as few as one, even for players whose punishment stems not from a small number of egregious infractions but rather from dozens of instances of mild toxicity. The purpose of the reform card is to tell you how to reform, so it shows you an example of the behavior that prompted your punishment and explains that such behavior is inappropriate and should be avoided if you want to maintain an account in good standing. Usually, one transgression by itself wouldn't be enough to bring such a punishment to an otherwise clean account, but the IFS works on an escalating punishment system. Breaking a minor rule, like engaging the team in useless arguments, has a minor punishment: a chat restriction. Breaking that same rule over and over again, however, doesn't prompt an endless series of chat restrictions. The severity of the punishment ramps up over time, because the goal is to eliminate the punished player's willingness to break the game's rules. If two chat restrictions don't stop the useless arguments, the system will increase the punishment to a 14-day suspension and deliver a very clear message that the continued rule-breaking is becoming a serious issue and any further instances will result in a permaban. Again, the point is to put a stop to this misbehavior. If a player is more interested in repeatedly breaking the rules than in maintaining access to their account, they'll lose access to their account. Of course, it's possible to break major rules, like cheating, threatening people, or using chat for hate speech, and skip punishment tiers so that a clean account ends up with a 14-day suspension or even a permaban. From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-): > **PUNISHMENTS GENERALLY FOLLOW A BASIC ESCALATION PATH:** > > * First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction > * Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction > * Third Offense: Two Week Suspension > * Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension > > However, it is possible to skip to a Two Week or Permanent suspension based on the severity of the behavior in the game. Excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account. From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player): > Do not threaten or repeatedly tell a player you will report them. Doing so can encourage players who are already negative to continue their behavior. Whether they know they are being reported or not has no bearing to whether the system will act on them. But most importantly, repeatedly threatening or arguing with a negative player can end up derailing the game for everyone else and then open yourself up to reports and possible disciplinary action as well. Avoid negative thoughts and useless chatting with poor performing teammates! Focus on victory by muting the offending player and then reporting them at the end of the game. > > Do not ask other players in the match to report the offending player. It only takes one report for our systems to review a game. Additional reports will not do anything for the offending player; however as mentioned above, it could open yourself up to a report of your own; especially if you are derailing the match by constantly demanding reports of other players.
: An artificial intelligence cannot be both specific and sensitive. only fools and riot game think they can do everything with it. Second, Like most of the people responding to it you're like "Player judge then it's bad" If you don't look why it failed, of fucking course you're not gonna know. In Cs:go there is also an automated system , but strangely , these people that are not as stupide as many knew there are edgy cases because an neural networks have often a lot of trouble with cases that are almost considered toxic , but it might be a false positive. ----------------------------------------- Why did tribunal fail ? 1- People were barely not tested (they could answer randomly) and opinions were based on the community however , the community standards are somewhat biased, and it was not always efficient. 2- People could start to judge at level 20 and not know much about the game. 3- people were rewarded to judge cases, and it was the biggest sources of bias as the judge would rather try to guess what other judge will pick instead of being completely neutral a judging the case regardless of others opinion (judging objectively) 4- Due to all the reasons above, sometimes player having a non extreme behavior were banned permanently of facing an aggravated ban for something that did not deserve much. 5- Some expressions are a big nono in the game but not in the community for instance the famous "Kys" ------------------------------------------------ How does CS:GO OW solve that ? - Only experienced player can judge case (not experienced in terms of ranking but in terms of sheer games played) not everyone is suitable to be a judge, and the requirement are unknown , you just know you're accepted and that's all , so people don't try to abuse the system. - Judges are randomly tested on cases that are 100% sure they should be banned OR not banned. failing these cases almost permanently hurts your ability to judge (quite hard to gain back) - judges are barely rewarded with a little exp, no skin , nothing, it works on a "Make a lot of judgment , get rewarded for your accuracy." but it's not a good source of exp, most player to it for the sake of helping cleaning the community and having a fun time doing it. - Tribunal is in game and based on a replay which helps contextualise the situation as opposed to a shitty website that would be used on phone. ------------------------------ In league of legends it could be just a bunch of players, well selected that are constantly rated, that judges replays and give their opinion on that person. It's not much, but it is efficient.
> [{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=F2x6hjUp,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-22T00:54:28.100+0000) > > An artificial intelligence cannot be both specific and sensitive. > only fools and riot game think they can do everything with it. > > Second, > Like most of the people responding to it you're like "Player judge then it's bad" > > If you don't look why it failed, of fucking course you're not gonna know. > > In Cs:go there is also an automated system , but strangely , these people that are not as stupide as many knew there are edgy cases because an neural networks have often a lot of trouble with cases that are almost considered toxic , but it might be a false positive. > > ----------------------------------------- > Why did tribunal fail ? > > 1- People were barely not tested (they could answer randomly) and opinions were based on the community > however , the community standards are somewhat biased, and it was not always efficient. > > 2- People could start to judge at level 20 and not know much about the game. > > 3- people were rewarded to judge cases, and it was the biggest sources of bias as the judge would rather try to guess what other judge will pick instead of being completely neutral a judging the case regardless of others opinion (judging objectively) > > 4- Due to all the reasons above, sometimes player having a non extreme behavior were banned permanently of facing an aggravated ban for something that did not deserve much. > > 5- Some expressions are a big nono in the game but not in the community for instance the famous "Kys" > ------------------------------------------------ > > How does CS:GO OW solve that ? > > - Only experienced player can judge case (not experienced in terms of ranking but in terms of sheer games played) > not everyone is suitable to be a judge, and the requirement are unknown , you just know you're accepted and that's all , so people don't try to abuse the system. > > - Judges are randomly tested on cases that are 100% sure they should be banned OR not banned. > failing these cases almost permanently hurts your ability to judge (quite hard to gain back) > > - judges are barely rewarded with a little exp, no skin , nothing, it works on a "Make a lot of judgment , get rewarded for your accuracy." > but it's not a good source of exp, most player to it for the sake of helping cleaning the community and having a fun time doing it. > > - Tribunal is in game and based on a replay which helps contextualise the situation as opposed to a shitty website that would be used on phone. > > ------------------------------ > > In league of legends it could be just a bunch of players, well selected that are constantly rated, that judges replays and give their opinion on that person. > It's not much, but it is efficient. I like how you spend a few paragraphs labeling anyone who disagrees with your point of view a "fool" or "stupid," and then you propose to improve LoL's Tribunal - which took too much time and effort and was too slow - by reducing the number of participants and reducing their incentive to participate.
Midg3t (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=F2x6hjUp,comment-id=00030000000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-22T00:22:31.804+0000) > > Also based on what I said, A) people didn't want to spend more than a minute or two per case and yet B) there was a huge backlog. Do you think having people watch an entire match before making a decision would help either of these problems? But it wouldnt be a whole match. Watch the vid I linked above to get the better idea about it.
> [{quoted}](name=Midg3t,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=F2x6hjUp,comment-id=000300000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-22T00:23:33.369+0000) > > But it wouldnt be a whole match. Watch the vid I linked above to get the better idea about it. Even watching zero seconds of a match requires downloading the replay, loading the match, and exiting out. That would at least double the time required to review a case, and that's just to watch zero seconds of the corresponding match. So we're starting with doubling the time investment, and possibly going up to tripling it, quadrupling it, or more, on a case-by-case basis. Tribunal participation took too much effort and was too slow. Do you think that increasing the investment of effort and time would alleviate those problems or exacerbate them?
Midg3t (EUNE)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Midg3t,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=F2x6hjUp,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-22T00:15:54.664+0000) > > Based on what KFCeytron said > > It doesnt sound like current csgo OW at all. Unless it also gave you an ability to watch a game replay that is. > > I will kindly ask you to piss off with that passive-aggressive behaviour. Ik you dont like when people are disobeying League's system but calm the fuck down boy. Also based on what I said, A) people didn't want to spend more than a minute or two per case and yet B) there was a huge backlog. Do you think having people watch an entire match before making a decision would help either of these problems?
: League needs an overwatch system
Many years ago, LoL's behavior system used something called the Tribunal, comprising player volunteers who logged into a system that showed them chat logs from reported players. Those volunteers would then vote on whether to punish or pardon the reported player's case. This system's main flaw was that it simply took far too long due to LoL's huge playerbase. Participants would often be reviewing chat logs that were several months old, with a growing backlog. In addition to that, not every participant took the task seriously: some would spam the same verdict for every case without even reading the chat log, or even invert their verdicts on purpose. The current system, called the Instant Feedback System, or IFS, is automated software that uses machine learning to determine what behavior should be punishable and when a player's behavior should be punished. It started with data from the Tribunal, and has been learning and adapting for years. It operates on the same basic principles as a spam filter: get a corpus of data (emails/chat logs), have humans categorize each item as acceptable or unacceptable, find patterns within each category, and then finally look for those patterns to automatically categorize new items without direct human evaluation. Each report is like clicking the "spam" button. When a new pattern starts to get lots of reports, the IFS recognizes it as a new form of toxicity. The IFS is efficient and unbiased. The Tribunal was not. TL;DR: Tried, didn't work.
: If you're wondering what an emotionally scarred forum troll looks like, then here it is. You legitimately read nothing of what you responded to. You even cut some sentences off that contained the entire point lmao. The system is busted and your undying faith is not welcome without some logical sense. Try reading first, then include logic in your response. Then I might give you more of my time.
> [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-21T22:07:47.004+0000) > > If you're wondering what an emotionally scarred forum troll looks like, then here it is. You legitimately read nothing of what you responded to. You even cut some sentences off that contained the entire point lmao. The system is busted and your undying faith is not welcome without some logical sense. Try reading first, then include logic in your response. Then I might give you more of my time. Bro, you call your teammates monkeys and then wonder why you got punished. Have a nice life.
: Is there a rule that Support always have to go bot lane to sup Marksman ?
If you suggest this to your team and they are strongly against it but you do it anyway, that would be breaking the rules. If they're cool with it, then you're good. The reason that supporting an ADC at bot lane is meta is that they are weak early but strong late. Protecting them during lane phase allows them to reach that late game power more quickly, safely, and reliably.
: Self Inflicted
> [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > As a precursor, I know there will be forum trolls that say that his is actually sooooooo toxic Oh, anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. Cool. That's a good start. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > this issue that Riot has created for itself. No. This issue that you created for yourself. Take some responsibility for your actions. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > It's a very toxic game yes, primarily because people can abuse you verbally AND in game So mute and report them. Don't say you're going to do that or ask others to do the same; it doesn't help. Just mute, focus on the game, and submit a report afterward. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > THEN group report you after the game and that will generate an autoban It is not possible to gang up on someone with multiple reports. From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player): > It only takes one report for our systems to review a game. [](http:///) > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > I can say with confidence that the ONLY thing holding this game back is the player behavior department. Posting this in hopes that we can collectively push to make this change. Well, you could start by improving your own behavior. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > Duro Thee Dawg: report aa > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: report aa From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player): > Do not threaten or repeatedly tell a player you will report them. Doing so can encourage players who are already negative to continue their behavior. Whether they know they are being reported or not has no bearing to whether the system will act on them. But most importantly, repeatedly threatening or arguing with a negative player can end up derailing the game for everyone else and then open yourself up to reports and possible disciplinary action as well. Avoid negative thoughts and useless chatting with poor performing teammates! Focus on victory by muting the offending player and then reporting them at the end of the game. > > Do not ask other players in the match to report the offending player. It only takes one report for our systems to review a game. Additional reports will not do anything for the offending player; however as mentioned above, it could open yourself up to a report of your own; especially if you are derailing the match by constantly demanding reports of other players. [](http:///) > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: legit always in my lane pushing then going back and not ganking > Duro Thee Dawg: why > Duro Thee Dawg: both of you > Duro Thee Dawg: stay out of my lane > Duro Thee Dawg: you are literally the only problem > Duro Thee Dawg: literally 5v1 > Duro Thee Dawg: yeah > Duro Thee Dawg: so listen > Duro Thee Dawg: monkey > Duro Thee Dawg: stay out of my lane > Duro Thee Dawg: stop farming it Calling people names, insisting that they are the "problem," and just generally being unpleasant aren't going to improve your experience. If anything, it'll make people engage in those behaviors even more, either because they are trolls who have found a way to bother you or because they are ordinary players who weren't trying to bother you but have now learned that you're a toxic player whom they would like to see bothered. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: report aa please > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: inting trolling feeding toxic > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: legit everything > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: the kid has been in my lane > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: the entire game > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: hasnt ganked once > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: then wants to fight about it in chat > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: now purposely not going in > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: this is game See above about calling for reports. You're also harassing people about their gameplay, which - even if they're trying their best - will usually make them play worse. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: just end "Giving up" is literally in the report interface under "griefing." If you want to forfeit the game, use the /ff command. Whining about it in chat is not acceptable. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: lmao how am i toxic By calling people names, bossing people around, calling for reports, calling attention to what you consider a teammate's poor play, and announcing that you've given up. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: stealing farm > [All]Duro Thee Dawg: again Did you have your name on that farm? By this point, that person is probably doing it to teach you a lesson about what happens when you scream and call people "monkeys." > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > This is wrong and the real problem is that they feel no guilt for the system being abused. What are they supposed to feel guilty about? They punished someone who broke the rules: you. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > I'm sure you could join a game right now where atleast one player is much more toxic, and they will not be banned In a perfect and just world, everyone who deserved a punishment would get one. In reality, it is possible for some punishable behavior to go unpunished. First, punishments in LoL can only occur after a valid report. Second, punishments take into account the consistency and severity of the punished player's misbehavior: if two players in a match break the same rule in the same way, one who consistently misbehaves in this way might get a punishment while the other who almost never does so gets away without a punishment (this time). At the end of the day, though, all this does is explain how differences in player behavior over many games can produce different results for equivalent behavior within a single game. It doesn't excuse poor behavior. One person having a rare bad day doesn't give a consistently toxic player the right to join in. The only behavior that matters in your punishment is your own... and a good thing, too: how would you feel if you behaved yourself but got punished anyway just because all your teammates were spectacularly friendly, communicative, and positive? From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025054153-Understanding-Your-Temporary-Account-Ban): > We can not discuss other players’ actions with you but you can always report them at end of game and mute them when in game. There is no excuse for raging back or responding to people trying to get you to tilt. You are the only one responsible for your actions and your words which is what we are trying to address with these bans. [](http:///) > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > unless the system is abused by toxic players themselves. See above about a single report being just as effective as nine. > [{quoted}](name=Duro Thee Dawg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OU6Hu39Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:04:40.204+0000) > > Riot just needs to stop banning people until they figure out an accurate way that doesn't involve terrible judgement of employees that go to work "and do their job" like any other disgruntled person in the world. Done and done! They did exactly this. The current system, called the Instant Feedback System, or IFS, is automated software that uses machine learning to determine what behavior should be punishable and when a player's behavior should be punished. It started with data from the Tribunal, and has been learning and adapting for years. It operates on the same basic principles as a spam filter: get a corpus of data (emails/chat logs), have humans categorize each item as acceptable or unacceptable, find patterns within each category, and then finally look for those patterns to automatically categorize new items without direct human evaluation. Each report is like clicking the "spam" button. When a new pattern starts to get lots of reports, the IFS recognizes it as a new form of toxicity. Rioters only get involved when an account is up for a permaban, or when a player contacts support.
: Did I really cross the line that bad???
So, it has come to this: someone displayed misbehavior in a LoL match in flagrant disregard for the game's rules, ToS, EULA, and Summoner's Code. That's unfortunate, and I'm sorry you had to deal with it. If this misbehavior happened in chat (including emotes or ping) and they don't respond positively to a _single, courteous, constructive request to focus on the game_, your best option is to mute that player. Submit a report after the match. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by asking them to keep it down and then notifying library staff and moving to another area. _Do not respond with misbehavior of your own!_ If you do that, your teammates may mute and report _you_, and those reports would be valid. This is equivalent to dealing with a noisy person in a library by getting into a shouting match with them. Just because someone else started it doesn't justify you in continuing it. I'm sure you're familiar with the "s/he started it" trope, where two children get into an argument or fight and then try to claim innocence of any wrongdoing by claiming that they didn't instigate it. As any parent, teacher, or other supervisor of children will tell you, that excuse doesn't fly. When Dad is trying to drive you to Disneyland and your annoying brother starts making faces at you as he's previously been told not to, you should calmly ask him to stop, and then, if that doesn't work, calmly notify your parents of the problem. Making faces at him or shouting at him has never been a good way to get him to stop, and it makes you just as guilty of that as he. Riot doesn't care who started it. Someone else's misbehavior does not justify your own. From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-): > * Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game.If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on. > * Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the [Reporting a Player FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player) If you misbehave but a teammate or opponent does or says something even worse, you should definitely report them after the match, just as someone reported you for your own misbehavior. Yes, that's certainly possible. Reports are not a limited resource. Any time someone believes that another player violated LoL's behavioral standards, they can report that player. Punishments are similarly not limited: if more than one player in a game merits a punishment, they can both get a punishment. This can happen even if the players in question were antagonizing each other. The IFS doesn't need to weigh the severity of all reported players' actions and then "award" the "winner" with a punishment; it's not a contest. Think of it like dealing with a noisy person in a library: ask them to keep it down, and then notify library staff and move to another area if that doesn't work. If you get into a shouting match with them, you're just as likely to be removed, even if you weren't shouting _quite_ as loudly as they were. The goal is a quiet library. In a perfect and just world, everyone who deserved a punishment would get one. In reality, it is possible for some punishable behavior to go unpunished. First, punishments in LoL can only occur after a valid report. Second, punishments take into account the consistency and severity of the punished player's misbehavior: if two players in a match break the same rule in the same way, one who consistently misbehaves in this way might get a punishment while the other who almost never does so gets away without a punishment (this time). At the end of the day, though, all this does is explain how differences in player behavior over many games can produce different results for equivalent behavior within a single game. It doesn't excuse poor behavior. One person having a rare bad day doesn't give a consistently toxic player the right to join in. The only behavior that matters in your punishment is your own... and a good thing, too: how would you feel if you behaved yourself but got punished anyway just because all your teammates were spectacularly friendly, communicative, and positive? From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025054153-Understanding-Your-Temporary-Account-Ban): > We can not discuss other players’ actions with you but you can always report them at end of game and mute them when in game. There is no excuse for raging back or responding to people trying to get you to tilt. You are the only one responsible for your actions and your words which is what we are trying to address with these bans. Your opinion of the rules is of zero relevance. When a cop stops you for going 40 in a 25 zone, you can claim "I think the limit should be 45 here" all you want. You're still getting a ticket. If a librarian asks you to keep your voice down while you use the facilities, shouting that libraries should be loud will simply get you escorted out. If you go to a friend's house who insists that you remove your shoes while you're in their home, "that's a stupid rule and I do what I want" will lose you a friend. If you are using someone else's services, facilities, equipment, etc., you abide by their rules or you deal with the consequences. If you think the rules should change, that is a completely different conversation (and I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for your chances at convincing Riot to change their rules to allow behavior like yours). From [Riot's support knowledgebase](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360024051193-Understanding-Different-Ban-Types-FAQs): > We work with the overall community and within our own company guidelines to identify what disruptive behavior is and what the consequences for those behaviors should be. We understand that it can be difficult to know where the line is, which is why we provide chat logs and we have a few tiers in the ban process in order to allow for you to learn and grow. You spent a lot of time in that match harassing your teammate. That's not what chat is for. If you believe someone is breaking the rules, report them after the match.
Hotarµ (NA)
: Conversate is a word and it fits in this scenario. Google definition: >con·ver·sate /ˈkänvərˌsāt/ verb - INFORMAL •US **engage in conversation.** "sometimes it's nice to be able to sit and conversate" It's also [**defined by Mirriam-Webster.**](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conversate)
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=NeYQhZiJ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-21T05:52:57.272+0000) > > Conversate is a word and it fits in this scenario. > > Google definition: > /ˈkänvərˌsāt/ > verb - INFORMAL •US > **engage in conversation.** > "sometimes it's nice to be able to sit and conversate" > > It's also [**defined by Mirriam-Webster.**](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conversate) Yes, "informal" in the same way that "irregardless" and "ain't" and "literally (meaning figuratively)" are "informal." I mean no offense with any corrections; just trying to inform. Hopefully this helped someone. :)
Adder (OCE)
: Why can't we productively conversate about champion sexuality without there being so much negativity
AQA473 (NA)
: Asexual Nidalee - An Argument
Nid's sexual identity isn't good enough for you? What're you gonna do; pray it away?
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3A1QEaPg,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-09-21T01:21:02.052+0000) > > Even a single permaban is Riot's way of telling a player to quit the game and never ever come back. You've gotten _multiple_ permabans, but you're still here. Your promise of quitting is music to Riot's ears, as they've been trying to get you to do that probably for years at this point. > > The common factor in all your punishments is you. It's no one else's fault that you lack the self control, foresight, or manners to maintain an account. I suggest you find a different hobby - one where your style of behavior is welcomed. P3 with honor level 5 clearly has toxic written all over it. I'll pray for you.
> [{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3A1QEaPg,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-21T01:25:26.261+0000) > > P3 with honor level 5 clearly has toxic written all over it. I'll pray for you. You just got a punishment, and you have a whole string of permabanned accounts. Use all the sarcasm you want, but it sounds like you are still toxic and haven't reformed.
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3A1QEaPg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-21T00:49:16.583+0000) > > Didn't you have a whole bunch of permabanned accounts? Though I don't agree with them, I understand. But to get a 10 game chat restriction (not a big deal back in the day) in today's system for telling people to stop harassing me is just unacceptable. Maybe saying "get off my dick" & "stfu" aren't the best way, but to punish me for it. I lose my lane. Get taunted, emoted and sarcasmed by Darius (League version of teabagging) nonstop for 15 minutes before he kills me again (even danced under my turret once before he dunked me). On top of that, Darius starts roaming and picking up more kills. So now whole team flaming me. Now it's "report Wukong for inting" and etc while I'm trying my fucking hardest to survive. I built a fucking a frozen heart, titanic and ninja tabi just to try to survive and farm safely. Then for the next 30 minutes its "if the monkey didn't feed Darius we would have won". Could I have muted them, sure. Could I have ignored them, sure. Could I have chosen better wording, sure. Bottom line, I don't have the skill or fortitude to play this game with this community. One fucking occurrence to get a 10game chat. Lost my level 5 honor. Can't community with my team my ideas for 10 games because of assholes in my previous games. I'm just done. You guys don't have to see me in your game or on your boards anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3A1QEaPg,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-21T01:16:12.181+0000) > > Though I don't agree with them, I understand. But to get a 10 game chat restriction (not a big deal back in the day) in today's system for telling people to stop harassing me is just unacceptable. Maybe saying "get off my dick" & "stfu" aren't the best way, but to punish me for it. > > I lose my lane. Get taunted, emoted and sarcasmed by Darius (League version of teabagging) nonstop for 15 minutes before he kills me again (even danced under my turret once before he dunked me). On top of that, Darius starts roaming and picking up more kills. So now whole team flaming me. > > Now it's "report Wukong for inting" and etc while I'm trying my fucking hardest to survive. I built a fucking a frozen heart, titanic and ninja tabi just to try to survive and farm safely. > > Then for the next 30 minutes its "if the monkey didn't feed Darius we would have won". > > Could I have muted them, sure. Could I have ignored them, sure. Could I have chosen better wording, sure. > > Bottom line, I don't have the skill or fortitude to play this game with this community. One fucking occurrence to get a 10game chat. Lost my level 5 honor. Can't community with my team my ideas for 10 games because of assholes in my previous games. > > I'm just done. You guys don't have to see me in your game or on your boards anymore. Even a single permaban is Riot's way of telling a player to quit the game and never ever come back. You've gotten _multiple_ permabans, but you're still here. Your promise of quitting is music to Riot's ears, as they've been trying to get you to do that probably for years at this point. The common factor in all your punishments is you. It's no one else's fault that you lack the self control, foresight, or manners to maintain an account. I suggest you find a different hobby - one where your style of behavior is welcomed.
: That's the last straw!
Didn't you have a whole bunch of permabanned accounts?
: Was curious to why people think this was ban able
You spent the entire match screaming at your team. Punishment 100% deserved.
: Here are a couple of better real-life analogies, since you like this kind of thing. Let's say you're in college, and every day everything is fine. One day, you don't like how someone is speaking to you in class, and you say, "Shut the fuck up ******!" (****** = a certain slur for a homosexual.) You bet your ass you're going to get bounced out of that college for hate speech with no second chances. Let's say you're at work, and your boss is really riding you for something trivial. You decide to respond with, "Leave me alone, ******!" (****** = a certain racial slur beginning with N). You bet your ass you're going to be fired with no second chances. I hope those did maybe a halfway decent job at showing you that zero-tolerance speech is serious whether it's in a video game or not. You just don't fucking talk to people that way, and you don't deserve shit for consideration if you do.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010006,timestamp=2019-09-20T19:52:32.281+0000) > > Okay. Here are two statements, you let me know if they're both true: > > 1. Chat penalties are based on frequency and severity. You can receive a chat penalty if you are frequently, mildly toxic, or if you're severely toxic in a few games, or some combination thereof. > > 2. After a 14-Day ban, ANY toxicity results in a permanent ban. The first is true. The second is sometimes true, and Riot is very careful with what they say about it, so as to avoid encouraging anyone to be toxic. It is sometimes possible to drop a punishment tier after a 14-day suspension, but not necessarily. Some offenses remain on a player's record permanently. Others don't. I occasionally see people ask how long they have to behave themselves after a 14-day to drop a punishment tier. Since that only matters if the player gets another punishment for toxicity, this indicates that they are eager to be toxic again and just want to avoid a permaban. The response to a 14-day suspension that Riot hopes for is that the player reform and stop being toxic ever again. This sounds like a tall order, but most players don't need even a single punishment to behave themselves, much less a severe one. TL;DR: Zero tolerance is so intolerant because Riot and most of the playerbase value fun matches for all over coddling a toxic troll.
: My attempt to draw Lux
: Here are a couple of better real-life analogies, since you like this kind of thing. Let's say you're in college, and every day everything is fine. One day, you don't like how someone is speaking to you in class, and you say, "Shut the fuck up ******!" (****** = a certain slur for a homosexual.) You bet your ass you're going to get bounced out of that college for hate speech with no second chances. Let's say you're at work, and your boss is really riding you for something trivial. You decide to respond with, "Leave me alone, ******!" (****** = a certain racial slur beginning with N). You bet your ass you're going to be fired with no second chances. I hope those did maybe a halfway decent job at showing you that zero-tolerance speech is serious whether it's in a video game or not. You just don't fucking talk to people that way, and you don't deserve shit for consideration if you do.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010004,timestamp=2019-09-20T19:36:48.027+0000) > > Actually it does. You can be mildly toxic once in a while for eternity and never receive a punishment. I know this for a fact because like anyone else I slip up once in a while too, and my account has been in good standing since season one across thousands of games both ranked and unranked. Now I'm not talking about someone going nuts, throwing slurs around, and raging for an entire game once every two weeks. I'm talking about the occasional, "Damnit will you stop feeding so I can carry!?!?" or the "Do you not see pings? I pinged for 30 seconds before you got ganked!" Or maybe even, "I'll gank where I want, stop feeding your lane." All of these are toxic, albeit mildly so, and if you were say something like this once every 2 weeks, you would never get so much as a chat restriction. There is leniency built into the system because people slip up. However, these very same phrases could very well trigger a permanent ban if you're coming off of a 14-Day Ban. Every couple weeks isn't once in a while. That's frequent. If you harass your teammates, accuse people of feeding, etc. every couple weeks and _don't_ get punished, then the problem here isn't that people are getting permabanned via one large offense and one small offense; it's that you're not getting punished when you should.
Zombaco (NA)
: The League client is awful.
Same thing happens to me sometimes on one of the computers I use to play LoL.
: Day 1: 1.3 Billion Players and No Servers, India needs a server!
> 1.3 Billion Players https://thetombofanubis.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/houseoflies.gif
: Here are a couple of better real-life analogies, since you like this kind of thing. Let's say you're in college, and every day everything is fine. One day, you don't like how someone is speaking to you in class, and you say, "Shut the fuck up ******!" (****** = a certain slur for a homosexual.) You bet your ass you're going to get bounced out of that college for hate speech with no second chances. Let's say you're at work, and your boss is really riding you for something trivial. You decide to respond with, "Leave me alone, ******!" (****** = a certain racial slur beginning with N). You bet your ass you're going to be fired with no second chances. I hope those did maybe a halfway decent job at showing you that zero-tolerance speech is serious whether it's in a video game or not. You just don't fucking talk to people that way, and you don't deserve shit for consideration if you do.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010002,timestamp=2019-09-20T18:23:31.068+0000) > > Right... but behavior which had never been penalized before the ZT is suddenly permaban behavior. That is not transparent. Incorrect. Behavior which wouldn't have been punished with a permaban before the 14-day is suddenly punished with a permaban. Before the 14-day, that behavior would've earned the player a chat restriction. The IFS doesn't change its mind like that about what constitutes bad behavior.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CharDeeMcDenniz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-20T16:04:19.724+0000) > > this...doesnt make sense > > why would a second offense (after a MAJOR infraction) warrant a lesser punishment? bass akwards if you ask me That's a great question. The problem is that there is no opportunity to reform. Let's say that you have been playing for 5 years. And during those 5 years, you're generally a positive player. Once in a while, maybe once every couple of weeks, you get frustrated and lash out, but never anything extreme. This probably describes the vast majority of players. You're never penalized for this, because the system understands that people get frustrated sometimes. One day, you are chatting with your friend and you call him the N-Word. This is normal conversation between the two of you, but someone else gets offended and reports you, resulting in a 14 Day ban. Fine, you deserved it, you should have known better. You accept your 14 Day ban, make a mental note to not use that word, or any other word that can be considered a slur. Two weeks later, someone says something that sets you off. Again, rare occurrence, but it does happen. The same behavior which has been reinforced as acceptable for FIVE YEARS of playing now results in a permanent loss of your account.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=d8HfVxpW,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-09-20T16:22:33.907+0000) > > That's a great question. > > The problem is that there is no opportunity to reform. Let's say that you have been playing for 5 years. And during those 5 years, you're generally a positive player. Once in a while, maybe once every couple of weeks, you get frustrated and lash out, but never anything extreme. This probably describes the vast majority of players. You're never penalized for this, because the system understands that people get frustrated sometimes. > > One day, you are chatting with your friend and you call him the N-Word. This is normal conversation between the two of you, but someone else gets offended and reports you, resulting in a 14 Day ban. > > Fine, you deserved it, you should have known better. You accept your 14 Day ban, make a mental note to not use that word, or any other word that can be considered a slur. > > Two weeks later, someone says something that sets you off. Again, rare occurrence, but it does happen. The same behavior which has been reinforced as acceptable for FIVE YEARS of playing now results in a permanent loss of your account. I think this post right here is the key to why you're wrong. Most players don't "get frustrated and lash out" every couple weeks. That's not "once in a while" or "a rare occurrence." That is someone who frequently and regularly trashes games, whether they accept responsibility for it or somehow manage to convince themselves that it's another player's fault for "setting them off." You also imply that this player was behaving acceptably both before and after their 14-day suspension, and yet only got a punishment after that suspension. This would not be the case. Someone who "lashes out" multiple times a month would certainly have been punished for that behavior a lot sooner, not only after and because of a 14-day. The IFS doesn't just ignore valid reports until a player has gotten a 14-day and then ratchet it up afterward.
Barso55 (NA)
: How is vayne anywhere close to balanced? its like a champ from another game or something
First, it's 14%, not 24%. Second, a slow buildup with several autos is a blessing compared to most champs that will 100-0 you in the blink of an eye.
Vuuduu (NA)
: ME SEE CHAMPION, ME FIGHT THAT CHAMPION
{{champion:2}} _unironically upvotes_
Ikakkuu (EUW)
: It happened to me right now
> [{quoted}](name=Ikakkuu,realm=EUW,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=UAGPwvlw,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T01:36:48.536+0000) > > It happened to me right now Not with the client that this thread is talking about.
: Hey, riot I got the ghost game... thing thing what is going on... fix your client this {{item:3187}}
> [{quoted}](name=TSF Limphy,realm=EUW,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=UAGPwvlw,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-09-20T00:56:57.295+0000) > > Hey, riot I got the ghost game... thing thing what is going on... fix your client this {{item:3187}} It's funny that you say "fix your client" in a four-year-old thread that's talking about the old client, as you can see in the screenshot.
: Censorship in the States. Particularly in Riot.
: lol call me racist all you like but a chinese company taking over and suddenly player oriented doesnt apply anymore? DAMN LOL
> [{quoted}](name=Jennifer420,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=KEvEsp48,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-09-18T21:17:27.248+0000) > > lol call me racist all you like but https://i.imgur.com/YREcU6d.gifv
: Well in the example I gave, it wasn't until they started poking the side of my head that I got up. It's not assault, it's self defense. You just have to count the pokes "1, 2, 3" and now you are being assaulted and have a right to defend yourself with as much force as is necessary to stop them from continuing with their actions.
> [{quoted}](name=caffeine abuser,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xjAjBE9,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T20:49:09.564+0000) > > Well in the example I gave, it wasn't until they started poking the side of my head that I got up. > > It's not assault, it's self defense. You just have to count the pokes "1, 2, 3" and now you are being assaulted and have a right to defend yourself with as much force as is necessary to stop them from continuing with their actions. 0. How did you come to the conclusion that exactly three pokes constitutes assault? 0. How do you think "knock all their front teeth out" is an appropriate self defense from three pokes? Such a response would be assault. Doing this IRL would get one thrown into prison very quickly and not let out quickly. 0. There is no way to "assault" someone in LoL through chat or gameplay. 0. If you don't like someone's chat, you can defend yourself by muting them. Adding your own unpleasant chat doesn't help and [isn't self defense](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/Pqc6PJUE-players-who-flame-back-in-self-defense-dont-understand-the-meaning-of-those-words). 0. Beating someone to a pulp because they're poking you in a library is a ton more force than necessary to stop them from continuing with their actions, especially when you didn't need to use force at all and could've simply notified library staff and moved to a different location. 0. Self defense is just that: _defending_ yourself. Its only purpose is to stop you from being hurt. Anything beyond that is not self defense. "Self defense" is not an excuse to flip your shit and be violent. Maybe cut down on that caffeine a bit, hm?
: Fleet Footwork feels like an oddity.
Your idea is to take a healing/MS keystone and... add damage to it? Do you work for Riot?
: The fact that all of her damage is loaded into one spell. The fact that she can, with a spell, access active items that haven't even been purchased at that point in a game. Free lich bane for bonus damage. So my issue is that Riot pretty much consistently goes out of their way to concoct new and exciting ideas to make the game FRESH and EXCITING! And in doing so they, without fail, ruin the game. Either the champ is dog shit or it's overtuned. And it's just like, why do you need to do that? Stop trying to recreate the wheel.
> [{quoted}](name=Poot Lovato,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9FGIjjFW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:41:30.480+0000) > > The fact that all of her damage is loaded into one spell. > The fact that she can, with a spell, access active items that haven't even been purchased at that point in a game. > Free lich bane for bonus damage. > > So my issue is that Riot pretty much consistently goes out of their way to concoct new and exciting ideas to make the game FRESH and EXCITING! And in doing so they, without fail, ruin the game. Either the champ is dog shit or it's overtuned. And it's just like, why do you need to do that? Stop trying to recreate the wheel. You know, people say that all her damage is loaded into her Q, but that only looks like it's true because she can kill you with a Q. In fact, that's only about half the damage in her kit. She _could_ kill people with just a Q, and she sometimes does, but she doesn't need to. She got a round of nerfs after that video where a Zoe in high-tier play killed an opponent without landing a single skillshot.
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KFCeytron

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