: I don't particularly care how B is applied, so long as quality of games improves, and it gives that player an opportunity to improve so that they aren't just continuously stuck on prison island.
Alright. That reasonable. End of the day, I don't think it would actually be of any use. A. You do a 2ndary que which is prison Island. B. You don't have the value for MMR change from B be impactful enough to actually change where on the ladder toxic players are located. So they still show up in your games. C. You sink accounts who are toxic into lower MMR regardless of skill which just makes a bunch of super toxic smurfs playing in low ranked games. Right? You isolate them, you impact their gains and losses mildly so its just an extra grind for them to move on ladder, which expects them to sit at their skill when they hit it so the extra grind wont stop them from being in a MMR and in your Que. Or you weigh it heavily to lower toxic players, which pools them into lower MMR then their skillset. So... Probably just behavior system upgrades are the way to go. It might be my bias here, id rather those folks get removed aggressively as an example for what kind of behavior and attitude is not tolerated by the community who want to play and enjoy this game. Better automation for behaviors, stricter values for the detection system. That's largely the reason I show up in MM QQ threads so dam always. Its often times just a new "Elo Hell" excuse. Im better then my rank but teammates and luck keeping me down. Some variation of that. I used to believe in Elo hell, My icon right now is the direct result of that. Its annoying when folks use excuses for why they give up. "GG move to next, forced 50%." "GG unwinnable, shit MM put a -insert player rank-" It sucks fun out of the game when people just give up.
: What would happen if you could pick your Champ in ARAM?
You can do this. Just get a group together who agree to AM, its how ARAM was made. Coustom game it bruh.
: Hey RiotMeddler, are you alive?
From the last post i saw on Wu by meddler, Its shelfed till at least preseason. They need to get some People freed up to work on the visuals .
Verxint (NA)
: Good point. Could still have a separate open data set as well as the tightly controlled one.
Im gonna head off to work but i assume a prettier version of [something like this?](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q0bAP6oz-j0JnLzkbzSQlephVinogoCkDcqVqPH0XgU/edit?usp=sharing) is what you had in mind?
Verxint (NA)
: This is actually a really good idea if we could get enough data. Maybe make a Google docs people can input into?
Don't know if I trust the community. Probably run it as a smaller group of folks who are curious and use data collected with screen caps from strangers
Comentários de Rioters
Verxint (NA)
: I made that example assuming they both have enough games for a good sample. Point is that two people in the same rank can have vastly different performance. In games that rank with a straight MMR like Pokemon Showdown I personally experience less crazy variation in skill level at one rank.
Div 1 and Div 4 has some wider ranges for the system to catch up. Pretty dramatically. If you assume a Rank = a Class interval then your looking at 1/2C sometimes between folks at the same Rank if 1 is below and the other is properly placed. In Arapd's system 1/2C = 100 Elo which would be 64% to 36% odds. If the guys higher MMR then their title and vs a lower to the point it hits 200E its 76% to 24%. Example 2 Silver 4 players, one who has MMR at Silver 2 and one who has MMR at Bronze 2. Why the Op's suggestions bad imo, the game would think that 3 to 1 is the same "fairness" as a 1 to 1 odds simply because they share the same title. Then add on some of Riots extra systems. Like Positional MM (Only Positional ranks got removed. Have seen 0 red posts that they have disabled or taken away Positional MM after they put it into place in preseason.) Then it should be pretty clear that titles are just a really weak metric for skill. Edit. I will say that it does do a pretty good job for correcting titles when the gaps get to big and if people can maintain a holding pattern in a MMR that's not reflected in their title. Pretty aggressive in how their system slants LP gains to reflect mmr.
Verxint (NA)
: Yep. I'm not a fan of the system, I want an objective measure of where I stand
I basically have given up hope for that client side and use sites off riots API that share ladder position and percentile to judge where I stand. I blame the community somewhat because if it would add popularity Riot would do it. The amount of kickback and anger people on the boards have for any one who try's to explain Elo systems for them and the fact MMR is a derivative of it is insane. The most common MM issues players complain about are literally Behavior issues. Forced 50% is a stupid concept because you cant use unnatural averages to accurately grade skill on a system built around naturally occurring averages to then accurately have a value for some ones skill to build an unnatural average. Its kind of frightening how common it is for folks to forget/ignore that there is a finite # of player in a que at any give time. MM has to make a match, if there's not the parts around for a good match it will make a bad one. The Protections in place are for ratings via K and We Variables that wont impact how fun gameplay is. Not everybody likes objective numbers sadly.
Verxint (NA)
: Most of the "gatekeeper" effect is because of the layers of band aids on this stupid rank/division shit that makes your progression feel worse and unreliable.
The # of folks who don't know to play promotion games like a standard game is shocking. Brilliant your doing well winning and made it to promo so now its time to "try hard" And play completely differently from your standard. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=notnotkaiguy I made an alt this season and abused the fact that Remakes and promos failed by a dodge don't remove MMR just "rank" End result was that I made gold and only ever won 1 promo set to get from B1 to G4. MMR gap got to large and the system would just skip ranks. Titles are just a distraction to keep folks engaged and set artificial benchmarks.
Verxint (NA)
: Basically this, the stupid band aid rank system doesn't really tell you how well the person is actually doing. Someone can be gold 4 with a 55% winrate and another gold 4 with a 47% winrate.
Eh WR is not that big of a deal really. The demotion protections awful imo but folks don't use context of WR with #games. 100% WR out of 2 games is not really impressive compared to some one whos 70% out of 200 games. Things Riot does I don't like. Duoing off titles and that Demotion protection for Division 4 is massive. I get why, People don't care what a system that uses mean averages tell them about their skill because their off games are teammates fault. So pretty much everybody and their dog feels like they are superior to their peers. Plus folks who sink from the middle point of a curve tend to quit. -shrugs- Way it goes.
Verxint (NA)
: Considering the current matchmaker is based on a true match prediction score system, and the "ranks" are just a meaningless skin laid over the actual numbers, yes, what we have right now is better than arbitrary restrictions that limit options for the system to make good matches
^ correct. Titles are built from MMR ranges. So theres a higher variance for the #'s in titles then using mmr values.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYbVHsYE,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-21T18:53:54.415+0000) > > So that I don't do something that might hurt your feelings I will ask permission. > May I screen cap your death timeline and death maps for a few bad games? > > "there is very few instances were i am the one who lead to the snowballing" > Ok. Same question. Would you want to have some one use those games as a measurement for how you usually play? Do you think it would be an accurate measurement for your skill? Go ahead top just lost their inhib at 12 mins. Next game bot lane opened cause soraka died once an took 1 mininion then came mid an lost bot inhib at 10 mins. I actually got demoted to gold 1 an then in que my game crashed while i was on fourms waiting for it to load i lost 22 lp to remake lol. soooo about to shelf this game anyways at this point might just start trolling every game and int feeding.
Its easier to lose then to win. If you need the justification "I'm losing because I chose to lose!" its pretty weak bro. No skills involved. Your call if you want to risk your account and anything on it. I would recommend a break first before you decided to run a ban. You could also not be a dick and actively ruin games for other people and just uninstall if you want to quit the game.
: Riot, balancing the matchmaking system is VERY simple
Just show MMR for all players is even simpler but people are stupid and will always disagree with a rating. Riots system is to hide this information so that they reduce the # of folks who rage quit when they see their "score" only ever sink. As it stands riots got demotion protection that's pretty dramatic at division 4. Folks can fall 2-3 divisions worth of MMR and not get demoted. That would have to be removed for your suggestion to not make some awful 1 sided games. Do not address that and you should expect to see "ELO HELL" complaints about s4-g4-p4
: Not even close to prison island, more like a temporary and malleable adjustment to your mmr like any other contributing variable.
"that player should be flagged to be kept out of games with other players who don't engage in that behavior" "a players repeated behavior can very easily be used to keep them out of games with people playing their best game" ^ The above is a pretty standard prision island system. Flag negative players and keep them out of games from non negative players. With no consideration for match outcomes. > Not even close to prison island, more like a temporary and malleable adjustment to your mmr like any other contributing variable. So... Let me get this straight you want it to do this by impacting the "hidden" MMR values? I assume Toxic behavior would aim to sink folks into Bronze/Iron. Like the New player experience is not already rough lets throw all the flagged as awfull teammate toxic folks directly into the MMR ya expect to see newbies end up in. "adjustment to your mmr like any other contributing variable." Which in a MMR system has its direction of change controlled by Wins or Losses. The other contributing variables are mathematical systems unrelated to gameplay for the basic MMR system. How do you see this functioning? Like Blizzards MMR with performance adjustments? Those still only care about W,L for direction so its not really gonna do much for gameplay. Would you kindly provide a formula or an existing example please. > the TrueSkill ranking system’s mean skill update equation reduces to an ELO update equation. Note that the TrueSkill ranking system’s update equation for the mean skill is thus not guaranteed to be zero sum. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/ If you want to use an Elo adjustment formula Rn=Ro+K(W-We) is the easiest way to express it on the boards. Where do you want to put your Behavior variable? Lets call it (B) if that works for you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYbVHsYE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-10-21T11:36:42.086+0000) > > I have made it as high as Plat 1 and frankly You still find folks who only know how to feast or famine and are stupidly selfish in their picks with no regard for what would be helpful to team. > Any time some one is outclassed expect them to lose. > If they are equal skill but have a shit match up, expect them to lose. > If they cant play safe, expect them to lose very very badly should they lose. > If they have bad mentality expect them to freak out then lose. > > All it takes is 50% WR to maintain a holding pattern in a MMR range. > > Some times folks just have shit games. Like your 1-11-1 EZ game with 12% participation. You look to be the very worst player in that match. If we took that out of context of how you typically play? Does it present an accurate picture of your skill? If you answer no, why the fuck do you think 1 match would then be correct for any other player? Actually its not me who gets it to that point, its the me winning mid or having even a slight lead with 1 kill over my laner an a few cs ahead that i draw the jungle pressure and their 9-0 adc/super fed jungler comes an dives the shit out of me non stop. there is very few instances were i am the one who lead to the snowballing. also most time when the games are 1-20 at 15 mins i just die an let the enemy end quicker no point in struggling in a lost game.
So that I don't do something that might hurt your feelings I will ask permission. May I screen cap your death timeline and death maps for a few bad games? "there is very few instances were i am the one who lead to the snowballing" Ok. Same question. Would you want to have some one use those games as a measurement for how you usually play? Do you think it would be an accurate measurement for your skill?
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KYbVHsYE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-20T22:51:59.422+0000) > > How and Why people believe MM can control player behavior is something I just do not understand. > > Like you guys realize that MM stops at a lobby right? That gameplay is controlled by players and decisions they make? The way these guys play they dont deserve to be on my team. they legit belong in 15 divsions lower at iron 4.
I have made it as high as Plat 1 and frankly You still find folks who only know how to feast or famine and are stupidly selfish in their picks with no regard for what would be helpful to team. Any time some one is outclassed expect them to lose. If they are equal skill but have a shit match up, expect them to lose. If they cant play safe, expect them to lose very very badly should they lose. If they have bad mentality expect them to freak out then lose. All it takes is 50% WR to maintain a holding pattern in a MMR range. Some times folks just have shit games. Like your 1-11-1 EZ game with 12% participation. You look to be the very worst player in that match. If we took that out of context of how you typically play? Does it present an accurate picture of your skill? If you answer no, why the fuck do you think 1 match would then be correct for any other player?
: What is GOOD champ design?
Why is this downvoted?
: The matchmaker doesn't control player behavior, but player behavior can certainly control the activity of the matchmaker, and it should. I already explained it pretty thoroughly. I'll try it again, slowly, for my own amusement. You see, when a player afks from a game, repeatedly, that player should be flagged to be kept out of games with other players who don't engage in that behavior. So no, while the matchmaker certainly can't control who does what once a game has started, a players repeated behavior can very easily be used to keep them out of games with people playing their best game, with the intended goal of higher quality matches, something that should definitely be looked into after the shitshow that was season 9.
So prison island. Which is behavior not mm related. Please use the correct term.
: I think I just described it pretty clearly. Try re-reading it.
"However, a player that consistently drop games, goes afk, trolls, purposefully feeds, and ruins games etc..." Is that not literally player behavior? MM does not control player behavior yea? Thats something we agreed on a moment ago? I'm just going to assume you dont think MM is what bans players. I want folks to call out the correct systems. MM is not what you complain about for issues made from player behavior. I care becuase I stand to only gain if there are less toxic accounts. Your asking that some accounts are restricted from Your games becuase of bad behaviors. Thats fair. At the moment that's acomplished only by a system ban. Bans are a behavior system not MM. MM interacts with bans by not letting people play but MM is not what bans folks. If you want a prison island toxic que?Riots on recoard for saying no they won't and don't do that. Besides Rather then run the risk of sticking innocent players into a toxic que... If you can isolate the issue players just remove them. So again. Why make this post? "How is matchmaking still not addressed" Please help me out. Explain What part of this is a MM issue not a behavior system issue? I just don't understand why you think MM does the behavior systems job. Can you walk me over the logic? It has to be more then " duuuurrrrrr....mm put them on my team duuurrrrrr mm is evil!"
: No one is suggesting that it does. However, a player that consistently drop games, goes afk, trolls, purposefully feeds, and ruins games etc...should never queue into matches with people that don't as these are behaviors that are perfectly trackable and their frequency is quantifiable. More that that, players should be queued into matches with others of their same skill level, not 1 carry per team and 4 losers.
So why the hell do you call out MM for the things that are literally a behavior system issue? Do you think MM is the system that's job is to ban players? I just don't get it. How many more ways can I point out that issues from player behavior are solved by player behavior systems not player raiting systems. MMR MM just makes the lobby and changes raiting values by the end result. Behavior systems are things like leave buster that punish negitive and toxic players regardless of their raiting or what the end result of a match was. For the life of me I cant understand why this is not self evident people on the boards.
Comentários de Rioters
: Match making is insanely unfair.
How and Why people believe MM can control player behavior is something I just do not understand. Like you guys realize that MM stops at a lobby right? That gameplay is controlled by players and decisions they make?
Yenn (NA)
: In what world does rewarding the support with 1000g and everyone else with 37g make sense?
Raka with 1k can do a lot for her team. That's almost half most the items she would want to build.
: How is matchmaking still not addressed??
I will never understand why you think MM controls player behaviors.
: Riot MatchMaking Is Actually Horrible Take Out Autofill
: Please, Riot, Can you not put unranked players with experienced players?
@1. MMR systems are built on a curve. So Iron 4 is going to represent the mid point of the games players or you build a slanted system but that will dump lower skill folks into the "middle" Mmr rather then letting them sink away from it.Sucks when it cost you a game but best way to blend new accounts is to compare them to the average. @2. Bunch of higher RNG games of unranked & unranked will have no control and no relation to if they are above or below average. Plus your making the assumption that there is enough accounts with low # games to actually accomplish this at all times. Pretty unrealistic please don't forget there's not an infinite # of players to pull from. @3. Same issue, it wont give you data on how the accounts compare to the average.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e7Np2vAd,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-10-18T19:12:48.253+0000) > > You should talk to the other OTP {{champion:56}} guy in this thread. eh i agree with him. Once you get into high plat/low diamond 1tricking doesnt become a viable means to push further. Unless youre 1tricking a godtier champion or a bot/support lane champion.
I just thought yall might enjoy chatting. Can be fun to run into folks share an interest.
Kovorix (EUW)
: You mean balancing for the sake of making money and favoritism is good? Yeah i want more games with the same balance philosohphy then.
Beats Stagnant Tiers of power that never change. There is more replay value to a constantly evolving meta. Go ahead and list a better balance philosophy as well as your definition of "Balance".
: I'd do something about all the damage in the game It aint fun when everyone is assassin now
Unless you add defensive stats to every item idiot players will still glass cannon build all the things.
Sydney26 (EUW)
: If u were Riot what would u have done for Preseason ???
: What's the most "feels bad for the enemy team" moment you've had?
{{champion:54}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:21}} Wombo combo hitting all 5 players.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEEdu4gP,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T00:01:22.863+0000) > > Case and point. I am not mad or upset plus I dont know how ya got that takeaway. Because game balance is a part of game health. Talking about WHY Yasuo needs changes is a balance question just as much as it's a "game health" statement. If your idea is to make ridiculous claims in the name of "game health", then your idea is bad. If your idea is to simply encourage people to fully think over their posts before posting instead of just herp-derping with buzzwords, then that's fine. You don't have to move the goal post from "game balance" to do that, though.
I agree balance is part of game health but I do not think game health is singlehandedly determined by balance. I expect folks will make ridiculous claims no matter what, but if the gameplay boards started discussing gameplay in terms of what they feel is healthy it would paint a better picture of what issues are and be easier to help others in the community. Might just be my opinion, i'd rather see a thread like " I struggle/dislike X" vs "X IS IMBA WTF NERF." I think having to explain where your coming from require more though then trying to slant Numbers like WR or exaggerate values in a kit by listing best case on paper or acting like lanes are always won and some one magical gets full build. My opinion is some things will be unhealthy even if balanced and it would feel more honest around here if folks open with their Bias and viewpoints rather then try and play them off as a game design buzzword and behave like its a undeniable fact. So I think moving the goal post would make that easier and more accessible. Its a bit wider and folks have more freedom to express personal views with out demanding the people who disagree need to treat it like a fact rather then an opinion which commonly happens in "Balance" discussions. Semantics I suppose but as some one who chronically miscommunicates I feel there is a real value in proper usage of language.
Verxint (NA)
: If the problem is that people disagree on what a good game state is, semantics won't change that. >Don't take my word for it. Describe how you would define a "healthy" state and what is needed to accomplish that. Then watch how some one tells you that's not healthy. See what I did there?
It might just be semantics and its reasonable that I am just selfishly pushing my viewpoint in thinking it matters. I feel being able to say "this is what I think makes a good gamestate" comes across as an inherently more honest even if people do not share the same oppenion. Id rather see that then "here's how to fking balance X" posts.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEEdu4gP,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-18T22:02:53.134+0000) > > Its me chip. I am awful at framing things. I have to make like 3-5 attempts to convey things. Used to Body language and Tone that my Lexicon gets screwed when I have to resort to Text. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naleynXS7yo > > Edit. Like I take things literally to often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLttd33j-GQ What you said in your explanation and what the post implies are two totally different things. If you want to get mad at me for telling you this, then go right ahead.
Case and point. I am not mad or upset plus I dont know how ya got that takeaway. If you take the explanation as context for intent and tone, does that change your preception of the posts body and what it implys? If it does not would you quote the bit you feel is relevant so I can understand what I did wrong? What i want to convey is unchanging and being unable to communicate that clearly is a bit frusturating but its not upsetting.
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEEdu4gP,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-10-18T21:19:43.833+0000) > > An example of why I think there's a benefit to trying to shift how folks post. > > For me Id like to see folks expressing why they dislike {{champion:157}} rather then the 1,000,000,000 thread about how OP IMBA YAS WTF NERF RITO, then go on to set up unrealistic examples and use misleading values. Admittedly I expect folks will still exaggerate kits grossly and downplay counter picks and item counters, but the freedom for folks to just talk about what in the gameplay is bothering them because its bothering them would be nice as opposed to GP boards functioning as the OG rant section. ...now it's a good idea. Not sure if I'd frame it the way you did, though.
Its me chip. I am awful at framing things. I have to make like 3-5 attempts to convey things. Used to Body language and Tone that my Lexicon gets screwed when I have to resort to Text. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naleynXS7yo Edit. Like I take things literally to often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLttd33j-GQ
: "Game health" This shit is a joke.
An example of why I think there's a benefit to trying to shift how folks post. For me Id like to see folks expressing why they dislike {{champion:157}} rather then the 1,000,000,000 thread about how OP IMBA YAS WTF NERF RITO, then go on to set up unrealistic examples and use misleading values. Admittedly I expect folks will still exaggerate kits grossly and downplay counter picks and item counters, but the freedom for folks to just talk about what in the gameplay is bothering them because its bothering them would be nice as opposed to GP boards functioning as the OG rant section. If it became ok for folks to not have to try and justify their frustration numerically and just admit they hate interacting with something because they don't enjoy it. Because I like numbers and constantly seeing folks misrepresent things to try and frame it as unbalanced is obnoxious.
: Your argument is that "healthy" is less ambiguous than "balanced"?
Its a bit more binary far as communication goes and can be expressed better as a frustration. The range of what folks think is and is not healthy I expect is just as wide as balanced/imbalanced. I think things can be "balanced" but also are "Unhealthy." Balance does not imply fun on its own but I feel a healthy game state does. That make sense?
: league has too many champs to ever be "balanced" but power creep is real and really should be a red flag in league... you should never be unkillable but being 1 shotted shouldn't be okay either... which is why i personally think that victor was a great champion.. sure he didn't kill people really fast most of the time and he didn't die all that slowly either... but he wave clears really well and has just enough of everything to be fair to play and play against
Sorta? So Power creep would imply that Old champions are completely by the wayside but a massive # of them would be broken as all hell with old kits. Skillcap creep is a thing, Game time reduction is a very real change as well.
Comentários de Rioters
Kovorix (EUW)
: The big question is: Why should I play a second of third game of a developer that can't even balance it's first game?
Almost every single champion has viability in a massive majority of the game. Some outliers exist, but lets talk Silver gold MMR which represents a majority of the player curve. What's not able to be played? There's a game balance concept called perfect imbalance. If a game has "kits" it uses this, if you run an ever shifting meta? you use this. Mobas have always been designed like this. How oblivious are you guys?
: just because no one asked for it doesn't mean it isnt a good idea, all the new games look amazing, and will pull new playerbases
How many Years have People made fun of the Poor S at the end of Riot Game_s_? Lots of folks have asked for Riot to make more games, or just flamed them for not.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e7Np2vAd,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-10-18T19:10:36.759+0000) > > Its for folks who want to climb fast. What happens after they get stuck? If they play other champions randomly because they hit a hard cap and cant break thru it? > > How fun is it to have teammates who handicap your team because of this advice? > Point of this discussion is highlight the negative consequences of this advice if its not framed with the right context. Presumably the same thing other people do when they get stuck They're not handicapping the team. They're playing what is going to allow them to perform the best. That's the whole point.
I am not conveying the point completely I suppose. "If they play other champions randomly because they hit a hard cap and cant break thru it? " In my reply to you what I am talking about the impact made by folks who cant get their pick then still chose to play + the players who get bored/frustrated so they start chain picking random champs because of Proplay/Tier lists/# of QQ threads on Boards. The ones who instantly drop from being a contributing member of the team to dead weight. Its about an improper OTP mentality. I really do not mind OTPS who don't want to play anything else because long as they dodge they are never an issue. One simple step and you can remove negative impact. Going into a game, half assed knowing your probably going to fail is a dick move. Ideally what I wanna see is for gameplay boards to actually start giving advice to help people improve their skill, not just rush as fast up the ladder till your stuck. It would lower some of the snowballing in the game.
: as a OTP, im only afriad of one counter matchup. My Nocturne Top vs Renekton. And i have fallback options incase i get autofilled or banned, i just prefer to play my OTP(Its really the only thing i enjoy playing).
You should talk to the other OTP {{champion:56}} guy in this thread.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e7Np2vAd,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-18T08:49:34.697+0000) >I feel that it handicaps a massive # of folks who hear the terrible advice of "Just OTP" . That advice is given to people who wish to climb, not to people who wish to be better at the game.
Its for folks who want to climb fast. What happens after they get stuck? If they play other champions randomly because they hit a hard cap and cant break thru it? How fun is it to have teammates who handicap your team because of this advice? Point of this discussion is highlight the negative consequences of this advice if its not framed with the right context.
: depends on what you onetrick. if you onetrick horseshit champions, that actually means youre better than your peers, because youre doing well on an extremely bad champion. aatrox is a perfect example.
What if some one can play 5 horseshit champions just as good and including your 1? Lets say they wanted to play Aatrox, you take it, they also have an equal skill meh champion who they know hard counters Trox. Your screwed if they pick him first. Your screwed if you pick him first. Again, in case its not clear we are talking about OTP not just Favorite or main champs. The kind of player who has only one Trick.
Zed genius (EUNE)
: This is why there needs to be clarified that there are 2 categories of one tricks. The ones who play a champion because it's literally the only thing they can play, and those that they one trick purely out of enjoyment. The former players are definitely not as good as their peers. Also, you can change the word "champion" with the word "lane" and this is still true. A let's say top laner who can only play top is a bad player, meanwhile a top main who can perfectly fine play jungle and support is a much better player
I thought we already did but apparently not. **OTP:** One Trick Pony. Only able to do one thing, the very definition of the term. **Main:** Literally just that, you have a main. Community often blurs terms and it makes language less precise. For me if the two terms where interchangeable there would be no reason for folks to clarify "I am a OTP -Champion- Main."
: This is a poorly thought post. Just because you one trick, doesn't mean you are unable to play other champions. For example, I enjoy playing Varus. He is BY FAR my favorite to play and my most comfortable. There isn't a matchup where I feel unable to preform (within reason). However, this does not mean Varus is the only ADC I can play competently with. From Ignites to Malphite ults to Trynd Fear, My spellshield timings on Sivir can be smooth as hell and I can quick farm to late game. Or alternatively I can play Ashe if I see a notable lack of CC and/or a lack of mobility on the enemy team. If the support auto hovers Rakan I can play Xayah, and while I admit she is one I need a good bit more practice on, I can play well enough despite practically one tricking Varus. OP just seems to have a hate boner.
I don't Hate OTPS but I will admit some Bias here as I am not wild when they cost me a game because X Y Z happens and they cant function as a remotely beneficial teammate. I don't mind folks who have mains. That's to be expected? I am talking about folks whos champion pool's width and depth is exclusively 1 thing.
: so basically, the things that casuals were complaining about still exist because they are the game and always have been. yes? yes.
Hey if folks ignore team comps and pick feast or famine raw damage champions of their own volition what you need to understand that's riots fault. After all MM controls _EACH AND EVERY PLAYER DECESION THAT HAPPENS AFTER LOBBYS ARE MADE._ {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} The alternative is that PvP games have their Gameplay built from Players VS Players. How fucking stupid would that viewpoint be am I right?
: That's why I (almost) never play Nami outside of Ranked; I make it a point not to choose her so I can practice everything else. Also there are just a lot of other champs I really enjoy playing. That aside, my goal in playing Ranked is largely tied to me wanting to improve and progress with Nami specifically. If my goal was just "climb as high as possible" I'd have to play other things, that just isn't my goal.
I get that and its why my Normals MMR is far lower then Ranked MMR.
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Kai Guy

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