: I don't understand why they underwent such big changes for her. Removing the staying on while TP'ed thing would've been enough to remove her from pro play. Mostly the W changes are what make her bad though. It seems like if the champion she's on dies she is basically guaranteed to die too even if she has teammates in range.
This is an argument for riot to make a Tournament champion ban list more then anything, if a champion is truly pick/ban or lose in pro then the champion should be not available for pro's to select in the first place.
: Never understood this argument to begin with. There are many champions with terrible designs that aren't bashed on even half as much as Yuumi is.
Others will give you some grandiose explanation about "enchanters and weakness" but in reality they don't believe that themselves and use it as a reason to bash on yuumi harder, the reality is people hated how she was because it shows just how bad they are at the game because you can't blame your support for a bad engage when you choose the engagement, you can't blame the support for missing their spells when your the one who forced the spell to miss by walking backwards. In short she made ADC look bad and thats a sin in their book hence the rabid levels of hatred.
: As a support main, I can tell yummi is in alot healthier spot than before. Her W needs some sort of counterplay . I feel like her only problem is mana issue with q and e. So i just max e, w and then q at last. Taking POM as secondary rune helps.
My only definition on if a champion is healthy is if they are fun to play and everything else is secondary to that, you could make shaco fair to play against but if you did so he would be so incredibly frustrating to play as people simply would not play him. in short if the only way to make a champion healthy is to make them incredibly unfun to play then a little bit of unfairness is OK, rivens a prime example of this she's a bit unfair to play against but you understand why that is.
: Something Needs To Be Done About Jungle
They tried to bring back the farming meta without also bringing back the things it needed to be successful which is increased vision control with feral flare warding item and smite buff wolf.
ßlameMyADC (EUNE)
: I didn't play for a while. What happened to jungle?
Becausue you can earn similar gold levels by supporting without any of the inherit risks or dangers of jungling, in fact i much prefer to support eve then to jungle her now since gold values are similar you will still have the same items when you expect to have them.
Yenn (NA)
: Is another season of League of Assassins really necessary?
Interestingly enough both pre and post rework eve are great indicators of assassin balance because neither of them did well when assassins are too strong and would see massive winrate declines.
: LP gains are based on your MMR, not your winrate. If your MMR is higher than your current ranked placement, you'll get big gains / small losses. If you're getting 20 for a win and 15-17 for a loss, you're pretty close to where your MMR currently is.
Whats that? LP is pointless and never should have replaced MMR to begin with? why yes i agree.
HalexUwU (NA)
: Can yuumi please get a few small buffs?
I still play her after the rework but i wouldn't miss it if i could have her reverted tomorrow, i don't see why i cannot play yuumi as death missile yuumi when this nonsense exists. {{champion:523}} {{champion:51}} Assassin {{champion:120}} builds, {{champion:82}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:235}} {{champion:412}}
: Really Enjoying the Vi QoL Change
Vi is just another abandoned jungler not to mention her kit is way out of date for modern league which means she would need higher base stats to be successful.
: Patch 10.2 Notes
If the new jungler does better in lanes then in jungle i expect swift nerfs that only cripple lane play while strengthening jungle play, not doing so would show your bias riot.
: Teamfight Tactics patch 10.2 notes
So what this means is sivir is no longer viable for any blade master comp and should be skipped in favor of using spat to make someone useful a blade master.
: PSA for Tomorrow: Sett is a Juggernaut
He needs to not pull someone unless he gets the stun off, he also needs to lose some move speed its ridiculous that he can fail his stun and still get a stun because you lose all control during and shortly after the pull. its times like this when i realize riot stachu was purely trying to just make eve unfun to play for her old player base because "damage needs to be gated" just does not fly when every other new champion can 100 to zero you in the time your waiting to unlock your full damage.
: Its Helmet Bro.
Did you not read the title? it said WRONG answers only.
: Everyone: Jungle has lowest gold income
You play ignite smite shaco and permanently cripple their jungler early then cash in on their camps becausue once shaco gets a lead like that its hard to contest him, shaco is literally one of the few exceptions to the rule for gold income because of this.
: Aphelios might lose small parts of his kit down the line.
They could get away with how he is now if they just removed all lifesteal abilities and made it so he cannot benefit from lifesteal and just translate lifesteal stat to attack damage or something. Without his problematic lifesteal combos he would be a perfectly fair champion because it would allow people who should be able to duel and kill him to DUEL AND KILL him.
: Jungle is dependent on its laners to support it. for about 10years it was always laners have been dependent on junglers for support. sub-diamond laners have not adapted to the shift. In their mind they are still depedent on you, and dont understand the macroplay associated with jungling, or with giving their jungler the tools/oppurtunities/help they need to succeed.
They wont adapt because doing so would require understanding how to jungle and they wont learn.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JJR74Ehf,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2020-01-11T02:26:44.144+0000) > > Even you must recognize somewhere in your subconscious mind that a full clear + both scuttles + enemy wolf + a kill is the exception not the rule in jungling and almost never happens as a result, yet here you are acting as if that happens all the time. I said no such thing. You are moving the goalposts. > Sometimes the best thing to do is admit you were wrong and bow out of the thread or just bow out of the thread no need to further dig the hole your in. Imagine being so invested you would move the goalposts and then advise your opponent to give up rather than debunk your new argument. "Even you must recognize somewhere in your subconscious mind" that that's dishonest AF. I proved my point, i'm not going to try and prove yours.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JJR74Ehf,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2020-01-11T03:28:44.706+0000) > > I said no such thing. You are moving the goalposts. > > Imagine being so invested you would move the goalposts and then advise your opponent to give up rather than debunk your new argument. > "Even you must recognize somewhere in your subconscious mind" that that's dishonest AF. I proved my point, i'm not going to try and prove yours. Your goal post was the claim that junglers should be happy with how it is now becausue you had one game where literally everything possible went right and i and others pointed out how wrong that was, you then moved the goal posts yourself then claim I'm the one who moved them? shame on you. in short your wrong jungle is not in a good place and needs some real TLC, the mere fact that the most autofilled position is now jungle proves this fact beyond any argument you could even attempt to make.
: https://youtu.be/0jn5u5K-610 That level came from farming his jg, ganking mid once, getting both scuttles, and taking his opponents' wolves once.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JJR74Ehf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-01-10T22:16:19.275+0000) > > https://youtu.be/0jn5u5K-610 > That level came from farming his jg, ganking mid once, getting both scuttles, and taking his opponents' wolves once. Even you must recognize somewhere in your subconscious mind that a full clear + both scuttles + enemy wolf + a kill is the exception not the rule in jungling and almost never happens as a result, yet here you are acting as if that happens all the time. Sometimes the best thing to do is admit you were wrong and bow out of the thread or just bow out of the thread no need to further dig the hole your in.
: Can we get a utility de-warding item?
What? no we have an issue of lack of vision right now why would we increase vision removal tools further?
: What does healthy mean?
Side of green beans with a main of fresh roasted chicken and a handful of nuts,
: If You Want People to Jungle, it Needs to be Made Fun and Satisfying
They hit the exp nerfs too hard compared to camp respawn time but thats only part of the issue as farming and tank junglers don't have enough wards to provide the safety net needed to jungle vs an aggro jungler like udyr, kayne ect ect as most of these farming and tank junglers have higher base cooldowns and are helpless if they use them on a camp then enemy jungler steps out of fog of war, add to that plants provide more vision control for the winning team and it really makes jungle an unfun experience. Riot always says they want to change up and make jungle not cookie cutter yet they avoid the changes that would be needed for that every season, what changes you might ask? first the return of smite buffs nobody hated these were confused when they were removed for plants, the other change would be camp variance so instead of raptors spawning all the time maybe wraiths could show up as well each providing a different smite buff for that particular game. Would having changing camps increase the jungle learning curve a bit? of course it would but i don't think thats a bad thing so long as the core issue of jungle being unfun i solved.
: how do you watch the replay?
I explained how in my original post at the end, read all the way down please.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jpIIEctt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-05T00:21:16.880+0000) > > I watched the replay of the kayle game in its entirety and damn i gotta say the only thing you could even reasonably do is pick a god tier wave clearer and even that requires knowing what your opponents going to do. > > For those curious lulu bought a support item with execute followed kayle around and helped her clear and be shielded from jungle camp damage for blue, frog, wolf then went mid and cleared the wave at tower before going to clean up rest of jungle, this continues in various patterns allowing kayle to be level 6 at the same time top lane is while the enemy jungler is still level 4, this in turn lets them control and take every dragon, and rift herald. > > edit: if you want to watch the game yourself google op's name on say na.op. expand his game list until you run into the game he plays janna with a score of 1//6/13 that has a kayle and lulu on enemy team then enter the kayle jungles name into your client and download the match as he hasn't played in a few days its still available to watch. Right so the counter is strong waveclear?
It's false counterplay because it assumes you know they will be doing this, it also assumes you pick your champion last which rarely happens, its like saying you can counterplay ap nasus by picking an anti magic champion, i mean sure you could but you would also need to know this one nasus plans on running ap nasus vs what is normal ad nasus. The only reason you aren't seeing more of this style is it requires a fair understanding of leash distance mechanics which most mid laners are clueless about.
: The support mid funnel to Jungle is symptom of poor game design for S10
I watched the replay of the kayle game in its entirety and damn i gotta say the only thing you could even reasonably do is pick a god tier wave clearer and even that requires knowing what your opponents going to do. For those curious lulu bought a support item with execute followed kayle around and helped her clear and be shielded from jungle camp damage for blue, frog, wolf then went mid and cleared the wave at tower before going to clean up rest of jungle, this continues in various patterns allowing kayle to be level 6 at the same time top lane is while the enemy jungler is still level 4, this in turn lets them control and take every dragon, and rift herald. edit: if you want to watch the game yourself google op's name on say na.op. expand his game list until you run into the game he plays janna with a score of 1//6/13 that has a kayle and lulu on enemy team then enter the kayle jungles name into your client and download the match as he hasn't played in a few days its still available to watch.
: I am quitting as an ADC until Aphelios and Senna get more nerfs. Powercreep meta sucks
Aphelios is genuinely over powered and needs changes yes, senna however has her power due to how easily she dies when dived on, it would be like removing blitz pull because you find it unfair, or morganna bind because you think its unfair but without either of these things the champions would be worthless garbage.
: What an ignorant and racist post. Did you honestly assume English is only spoken in England, America and Australia?
I know right? who would make an assumption about something or improperly imply logic such as misusing the definition of racist to create a strawman to wage war against when someone was seeking an answer about a subject they were curious about.
: If I Could Jungle, I Would
Honestsly its kind of fascinating watching the fallout as a former jungler turned support main that autofilled jungles are so common now it seems normal, riot killed the role and made superficial changes to make it look like they listened to junglers but in reality did nothing.
hoglo (EUW)
: Please add honest Skill Shot indicators.
So this is what it looks like for people who don't use quick cast? and this is a problem? if you can't visualize the distance of a skill in your head have you ever truly understood that skill? i would argue no.
: Why doesn't my jungler gank?
Because your jungler is auto filled and the guy who used to jungle is now running a support bot lane. Coming from a former jungler who now runs supports bot lane.
: They're worth too much. ADC Senna is punished way too hard for farming properly thanks to the recent nerf. You end up with about half the stacks a support Senna does, probably less if you farm perfectly (which I can't). So I get about 75% of the stacks people get as Support Senna since I'm a pretty bad CS'er... It feels bad to last hit, it feels bad not to. What a frustrating champ to play as ADC.
If only senna was a support with healing abilities instead of an adc this wouldn't be a prob- oh wait she is a support and its perfectly fine adc senna does not get stacks if she gets minion wave gold.
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 13
The Yuumi changes have been very poorly received by her mains much in the same way the riven changes were received by their mains do you have any plans to revert this or do you only care about win rate and just abandon how the champion feels to play?
: Yuumi is just awful now
They need to admit these changes were a mistake like the changes they made to riven and LIKE RIVEN REVERT THEM until they have something that actually works without ruining the champion into an afk heal bot for a single adc which is what these changes did.
: Aphelios's sniper passive NEEDS to be gutted
I don't even understand what the mark does, all it says is it marks a champion but doesn't explain what the mark does, damage i assume but no idea what type.
: Can we get more slow reduction with the introduction of Sett?
Has it been so long since champions with slows instead of stuns has come out that people have forgotten what tenacity does? it does exactly what your asking for and there is plenty of it in game you just never build it.
: holy shit the bots downvoteed hot page 40+ TIMES
We all know the mods pissed off someone who decided this was their revenge i guess, and it appears to be working given they don't seem to have the tools to deal with it.
: Do we know Sett's role yet? Juggernauts have been made for top lane, bottom lane, and jungle, it's a pretty versatile role
They said the next champion was going to be a jungler so i am just assuming thats sett.
Bultz (NA)
: Is this really sett.....?
Wait if he is half cat were only missing one more champion for a full cat team comp {{champion:107}} top {{champion:350}} support {{champion:76}} mid / jungle sett jungle Missing cat ADC here. Skins do not count.
juli144 (EUW)
: Yuumi "rework" buff or nearf? (yuumi mains pls ;D)
its a nerf if you max W since w now does nothing and a buff if you alternate between putting points in Q and E.
: Yeah my friend list is completely messed up right now lol. Anyone else having this problem? All of my general friends are there, but any of my closer friends that I've put into categories have completely disappeared, and it says those categories are empty to begin with (which, unless 30+ of my friends unfriended me overnight, is not the case). For some reason, the client also gave me a status I haven't had in several months, so I'm thinking the client just oopsed and went back to an old patch lol. Edit: I logged on this morning and now my friend list is completely gone. Totally empty. Riot, you really did it this time.
Yeah, plus post game screen now shows everyone already left chat despite that not being true, the ui seems to have had a major failure.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VuhE4BTQ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T02:35:54.686+0000) > > It won't make her healthier they removed all incentive to level up Q so now it will be E and W max with yuumi's never detaching. > > My current plan involves running unbound spellbook starting TP and spamming 1 point Q until i can recall buy chalice then be a perma heal bot without ever needing to detach. I already do that though.
> [{quoted}](name=Its Yuu and Mi,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VuhE4BTQ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T02:38:32.460+0000) > > I already do that though. Well thats flat out wrong for current yuumi much better to one point E, max Q and W and rely on chalice to empower E heals while constantly jumping out and autoing to see if they'll waste mana on a spell.
: The day of reckoning is upon us...
Sounds like youtubes committing suicide then because i've seen what their channel is like without adblock and its the stuff of nightmares, add to that i know most creatorss no longer get revenue from ads because corporations go around claiming their ad revenue as their own so the chance that my favorite youtuber gets the money from an ad i watch is 10% and a 90% the copright claim dude gets it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mártir,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VuhE4BTQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T01:15:30.196+0000) > > Have you seen the "W"? > > Edit: The whole Yuumi Mains is in shock, Lmao. > There are objective reasons as to that. Yea I've seen it. I think it's a nerf that'll make her healthier. Have you seen the "E"? That shit is broken.
> [{quoted}](name=Its Yuu and Mi,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VuhE4BTQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T01:17:06.713+0000) > > Yea I've seen it. I think it's a nerf that'll make her healthier. > > Have you seen the "E"? That shit is broken. It won't make her healthier they removed all incentive to level up Q so now it will be E and W max with yuumi's never detaching. My current plan involves running unbound spellbook starting TP and spamming 1 point Q until i can recall buy chalice then be a perma heal bot without ever needing to detach.
BigFBear (EUW)
: Give Drakes more HP again!
IF you want drakes to survive longer your asking for the wrong thing as more hp wont help, instead ask for the drakes to be immune to all %hp based abilities and items and up their armor and MR by 8, alternatively give dragon {{item:3181}} passive when vs 1 opponent.
HalexUwU (NA)
: Senna seems just a little overtuned
Shes fine people just don't like that she has trading power in exchange for having no response to a zed, yasuo, leona ect jumping on you.
: YES yuumi gets her mana passive back I love these yuumi changes they're what I wanted thanks riot.
The new changes will be unbalancable just wait and see, i have no incentive now to get off my ally and mana won't be an issue because yuumi's will no longer put more then 1 point into Q, instead of Q and W max it will be E and W max.
: I was with you until u brought up Eve. Her rework was litterally a pure net possitive while retaining everything good about her.
They made a different champion, and that champion is decent but she wont ever be eve even if they gave the new champion her name.
: Here's the thing: Kai'Sa is not supposed to be monstrous. Hold on, let me explain what that means. I know a decent amount of people here on the boards seem to have wanted "Kha'Maw, the beast thing from the void", but Kai'Sa's story was never about that. She is, at her core, still human. That's why she fights against the void, why she fights to protect humanity and the world of Runeterra. That's why they made the removable faceplate, why she appears human to us players, because that's what she is supposed to be. Now, is that to say that she doesn't appear other-worldly? That she wouldn't be terrifying to a typical Shuriman nomad seeing her fly in out of nowhere from a purple hellscape of monsters, skin appearing like the things around, giant shoulder cannons, firing blasts of *something* out of her own hands? No, of course not. She seems like the very same kind of thing that is trying to eat them at that very moment. Sure, if she got the chance to maybe get them to calm down, to remove her mask and show that she is human, they'd come around. But she doesn't. The person either runs away in panic....or dies after running away in panic. And that's the thing with Kai'Sa. She's not just a survivor, she's a *thriver*. She's a veteran Lara Croft, not the fresh one starting out her adventures. A lithe panther, not a roaring kaiju. She took the most terrifying place both in and outside reality itself, and you know what she did? She made those creatures of hunger and destruction her personal hunting practice. She took the Void, the literal embodiment of *nothingness*, and she made it her bitch. She becomes the thing the voidbeasts check under *their* bed for, the thing that goes bump in the night, but it comes to protect humanity, not to hunt it. Now, what exactly does this mean for skins? Well, for starters, it needs to emphasize her humanity, as that is the crux of Kai'Sa's character. Second, it can't be (what is the traditional definition) monstrous. A skin for her needs to embody the skilled and efficient huntress, not the scrambling beast that rushes through the undergrowth. A good example to illustrate this: Kai'Sa is not Venom. Never has, never should be. She's Black Suit Spider-Man. You can tell there's something not quite right about it, that it could hurt you, but she doesn't appear with a gaping maw and teeth as big as her forearm. That's not the story Riot was trying to tell, and that isn't Kai'Sa
Well let me explain it would be a skin line so her lore DOES NOT MATTER IN THIS CONTEXT. Explained? explained. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RdMhsLdW,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T07:46:23.940+0000) > > So what your saying is their kits are completely different and that yuumi mains should be fine and ok with having a playstyle that has its own risks and dangers being removed in place of a playstyle YOU think is fair, honestly i get tired of people like you telling me i'm not allowed to play my favorite champions, people like you ruined eve into what she is now which riots admits is now a wrong thing to change a champion so completely that it removes their original player base (these people must very often just quit lol forever hence their change of heart on the topic). > > Even i have champions i think are completely unfair but i don't go onto the forums and write an essay as to why all {{champion:420}} players are no longer allowed to play their champion and that it should be changed to be like ( insert generic champion from another game here ). But Eve WAS a LEGITIMATE problem!
She was not, the only issue people really had was level 1 invisibility a problem that was solvable without doing what they did to her.
Trap2B (NA)
: How do you jungle Eve?
New eve has always been an inflexible pile of garbage that needs specific things to go right in order to succeed, most of her mains play her barely once in every 20 games or so because they know they lose most matchups, the season changes just made obvious all the inherit problems of a champion designed to be hyper conditional in a game where they had no intention of making that the norm. In short you just fail which is ironic because old eve even without invisibility until 6 would have been just fine in this seasons jungle.
Barcid (NA)
: [This is Mina's gameplay in general.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVqGr0ZGeUQ) Past the fact they ride on a friendly champion, they're not the same. As I detailed in the post, Mina's shield that she gave was fed by her own health pool - it's not detailed in her release notes as they're a little too simplified, but you can see it in this video in practice. As her host takes damage and loses their shield, Mina takes damage instead. Again, Mina could be _killed_ on her host by more than just turrets, and damage you dealt consequentially stuck instead of being completely removed by a heal. Also as I mentioned, Mina had reason to hop off - her W didn't give passive stats to her host, it was instead encouraging her to hop off at proper times after buffing her host through her two other abilities in order to utilize her CC. Her W would then be on cooldown and she would have to move as a regular champion until she could reattach. So you're making points that are wrong because you neglected to read properly, probably skimming my post instead of actually taking in the information. You also didn't then bother to actually read up more on the topic as you'd also realize that the summarized abilities actually still mentioned the CC attached to her W and that the shield recharged gradually, meaning Mina's host was still subject to burst damage. Mina was a beloved concept in her game because the skill difference between a good and bad Mina wasn't only _vast_, it was clearly visible. If you sucked on her, everyone could _tell_, which is insane to think when your champion is built to piggyback on others. ... So... I mean, yeah, that covers most of it, but I do want to grab another point(?) you made here that really worries me: > you think its inherently unfair that someone can hop on a skilled garen, vayne ect and not be touchable until you first outplay the skilled host, you'd rather just catch her and instantly delete her and the player who is playing her can be damned and just die and not have fun. I would prefer if Yuumi _wasn't_ instantly delete-able if you read the post at all (honestly beginning to think you just didn't) - I'd prefer if she could function as a champion on her own and had the ability to front some amount of damage. That's the fuckin' _point_. Mina wasn't a champion that instantly blew up - she could survive. She had the ability to exist on her own. If she got in a position where she would die that quick, then it was going to be completely her fault as with any other champion. I'm pretty sure the point is that we should be able to _interact_ with Yuumi and find a way to get an in on her host without her permanently glued to her. What you're basically arguing is for you to have fun with her, you must be able to never leave the host _ever_ - which... that's bloody asinine. You wouldn't be playing the game then, somebody would be playing _for_ you, permanently. With Yuumi, it's currently boiling down to who she's buffing, as you ironically pointed out - Vayne and Garen, two champions who are most able to keep their distance and maximize on Yuumi's buffs/able to get themselves out of bad situations. Olaf is a polar opposite where instead of being able to survive effectively, he instead just puts Yuumi's buffs to optimal use with his AS and LS steroids and his ability to completely negate all lockdown. Funny enough, if Yuumi played at all like Mina, it wouldn't be as simple as "sit on the champ and watch them do the work", and I think that's what disgusts me about your comment.
So what your saying is their kits are completely different and that yuumi mains should be fine and ok with having a playstyle that has its own risks and dangers being removed in place of a playstyle YOU think is fair, honestly i get tired of people like you telling me i'm not allowed to play my favorite champions, people like you ruined eve into what she is now which riots admits is now a wrong thing to change a champion so completely that it removes their original player base (these people must very often just quit lol forever hence their change of heart on the topic). Even i have champions i think are completely unfair but i don't go onto the forums and write an essay as to why all {{champion:420}} players are no longer allowed to play their champion and that it should be changed to be like ( insert generic champion from another game here ).
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