Comentários de Rioters
Xavanic (NA)
: According to the community "It's never your teams fault, only YOUR fault YOU lost, should have played better and carried yourself" meanwhile, whenever i bring up the fact that I lost lane to riven because she has had 16 ganks by 10 minutes (no, this is not an exaggeration, I've actually had this happen to me) "it's a team game bruh" I really don't understand this community, seems no matter what you say, your just crying because your bad TBH I don't even think the players know what this game is supposed to be anymore, as the ideas i hear always conflict with one another, just like a certain book Edit: Just an FYI, i understand learning from your mistakes to improve yourself as a player, but when im in top lane and lucian down in bot feeds 10 kills in 5 minutes, its not my fault, I can only tp once every 360 seconds (6 minutes) and letting irelia free farm while i keep walking bot is not a good idea
> [{quoted}](name=Xavanic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fehvbLjj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-23T03:30:37.586+0000) > > According to the community "It's never your teams fault, only YOUR fault YOU lost, should have played better and carried yourself" meanwhile, whenever i bring up the fact that I lost lane to riven because she has had 16 ganks by 10 minutes (no, this is not an exaggeration, I've actually had this happen to me) "it's a team game bruh" I really don't understand this community, seems no matter what you say, your just crying because your bad > TBH I don't even think the players know what this game is supposed to be anymore, as the ideas i hear always conflict with one another, just like a certain book Yeah, well the "community" is wrong on that count and in all fairness not all of the community feel that way or maybe even most of the community.
Speeedy (NA)
: how does she have 3k damage crits? 350 damage x 2 (100% crit chance) + [50-100% (at levels 1-18) (+150% crit chance) total attack damage (350x2+350*1.5)=700+525=1225 assuming level 18 and not taking armor into affect what am i missing in my math?
> [{quoted}](name=RacerX4114,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vg1RiQKB,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-09-20T18:23:39.104+0000) > > how does she have 3k damage crits? 350 damage x 2 (100% crit chance) + [50-100% (at levels 1-18) (+150% crit chance) total attack damage > (350x2+350*1.5)=700+525=1225 assuming level 18 and not taking armor into affect > > what am i missing in my math? tl;dr Not really. So here's how I figure: (AD * Crit Mult) + (Crittable On-hits * Crit Mult) + On-hits With a sample Energy / Crit based full build at level 18: Berserker's Greaves + Statikk Shiv + Rapid Firecannon + Infinity Edge + Stormrazor + The Bloodthirster Caitlyn has: 317 AD (107 Base + 210 Items 100% crit ((30% Statikk Shiv + 30% Rapid Firecannon) * 2 Infinity Edge capped at 100%) Her passive deals: AD * (1.00 + (1.25 * 1.00)) = 323 * (1.00 + (1.25 * 1.00)) = 323 * 2.25 = 726.75 damage Overall this build does: 4.25(AD) + 140 damage (Shiv Proc) Calculation: (4.25 * 317) + 140 = 1627.25 damage I tried this in practice tool, the dummy takes the 606 Physical, 126 Magical, and 163 true damage. Which is consistent with the math. If you use the most common rune setup (Precision / Sorcery) you get an additional 8.4 AD from choosing sorcery and 5.28 from celerity. This contributes an additional 13.68 AD (54.72 damage for a total of 1681.97). The kicker here is Gathering Storm which gives AD over time. To get a 3k crit you need another ((3000 - 1681.97) / 4.25) damage. That's another 310 AD. I guess you can get a 3k crit with Caitlyn with this setup if you bothered playing a 646 minute long game. (That's about 10.75 hours.) Realistically: About 1700 if you line up an energized full crit headshot.
La Bello (NA)
: at first glance this might sound like a good idea but then again you are asking players to remember 3 different effects for over 140 champions. thats 420 different effects AND COUNTING (because LoL is hellbent on releasing 3+ champs a year as a method of subsidizing itself). What ever happened to burden of knowledge? You cant seriously be expected to remember all that stuff ON TOP of knowing the capabilities and strategies for playing against each augment style.
> [{quoted}](name=La Bello,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=p9TAg1JA,comment-id=00020004,timestamp=2018-09-20T17:32:48.379+0000) > > at first glance this might sound like a good idea but then again you are asking players to remember 3 different effects for over 140 champions. > thats 420 different effects AND COUNTING (because LoL is hellbent on releasing 3+ champs a year as a method of subsidizing itself). > > What ever happened to burden of knowledge? > You cant seriously be expected to remember all that stuff ON TOP of knowing the capabilities and strategies for playing against each augment style. But we already remember more than that. We already have to remember 4 different abilities across over 140 champions or 560 abilities (assuming you want to be able to properly play against every champion). This doesn't even take into account the fact that a lot of abilities are more complicated than others, have multiple parts, or passives. If you bother counting passives, that's a total of 700 abilities we already memorize. 420 is a lot, I agree, but we already memorize far more (700 doesn't include other things about the game, just champion abilities including passives) so 420 doesn't really seem like a big deal.
: Why don't we just, dunno, get rid of Runes and Masteries alltogether?
> I doubt many people would miss Runes in the long run... I for one would. I still feel gypped by Riot switching over from the old rune system without properly compensating players, but that's a separate issue. Point is, I think that the crowd that feels similarly to how I do is larger than you imply with this statement. Most of the people I talk to like having a rune / mastery system, but wish that there were either more (or more meaningful) mastery choices. I don't think I've met a single other person who's said. "We should abolish runes and masteries."
: Critical Kai'Sa bug, needs Immediate Disable.
Try getting a double stack against a jungle camp with your first attack and 0 guinsoo's stacks, then I'll believe you found a bug. Otherwise that's just Guinsoo's Rageblade working as intended.
: Is it not okay to build defensively?
Don't see what all the hate is about. Zhonya's still gives a solid amount of ap so it doesn't impact the rest of the build too much as long as its reordered accordingly. A lot of you are pointing out that the player had low damage in the game and immediately pointing fingers at the item build without considering the player's skill, role in the team comp, and how the game played out.
: I've had games where I'd say something like "Annie can you please look at your map? We were fighting at dragon while u were at mid" & then they hit me with a barrage of insults and call me toxic. Now I don't know if I need to calm down or get thicker skin but something is wrong with the league of legends community.
I agree with you. In my opinion the things ruining League right now are the people who intentionally try to put people down like the original post and the people who wield their ignorance and report threats as weapons to get their way as you mentioned above.
: I like your variety and I like that you can dislike Yasuo in a certain place but like him in another.
Thank you. Although to be fair there some very definable trends among the choices. (For example, all the jungle least faves have stealth.) There were also a lot of champions that were very close to being listed but didn't make the cut. (For example, I actually play quite a bit of Yasuo top and Yi top is my pocket counter to Nasus, Illaoi, and a couple others.) Not sure why your reply was downvoted though. Still scratching my head over that one.
: if someone told me programming or (at least planning) was this fun....
Welcome to theorycrafting. Got introduced to it in SC2... and have never stopped. Behold my "totally optimized builds for non optimal methods of gameplay" creations, like support tank varus.
: 3 Favorite Champions vs 3 Most Hated Champion
Top: Faves - {{champion:24}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:240}} Least Faves - {{champion:266}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:83}} Jungle: Faves - {{champion:32}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:64}} Least Faves - {{champion:28}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:121}} Mid: Faves - {{champion:157}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:38}} Least Faves - {{champion:3}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:84}} Bot: Faves - {{champion:18}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:22}} Least Faves - {{champion:157}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:29}} Support: Faves - {{champion:40}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:20}} Least Faves - {{champion:63}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:25}}
: Bruiser players - What are your thoughts on Spear of Shojin & Atma's Impaler?
My gut instinct is that Spear of Shojin feels more like a generic AD item than being meant for bruisers... I would definitely be down to build it on my adcs for the insane dueling potential and survivability. Atma's Reckoning seems lackluster in the game's current state. It's a late game item in a game that tends not to go late. If the game does go late then its fantastic. 25 AD per 1000 max HP is so strong that even an adc (who has around 2k base health max level) building it will end up getting +75 ad in prolonged fights. Basically I think these items would be broken by AD characters in other roles picking them up and incorporating them into their item builds. When I return to this, I'll give a sample ADC build that abuses this, breakdowns of the champions I play, and my suggestions for how the items might be tweaked to discourage being adopted by other roles. Begin Edit: Example ADC Build Greaves, Shiv, IE, Spear of Shojin, Atma's Reckoning + Flex Item Atma's Reckoning gives about +75 AD (25 base + around 50 from passive from base health at max level) Spear of Shojin reduces 34.5 damage (not counting any ad from flex item or Dragonheart) + additional survivability from damage reduction from the resistances granted by Atma's Reckoning and 200 health from Atma's Reckoning. Champion Analysis: Bruisers that I play top: (By "Bruiser" I am referring to champions that want to duel and become tanky.) Renekton Master Yi Darius Garen Jax Warwick Sion Kled Yorick Nasus Shen (Yasuo) Spear of Shojin has so many stats that help duel as well as being cheaper to complete than something like Hydra. You gets damage and cdr to kill the enemy faster and additional tankiness from damage reduction and bonus health. I honestly might get this item first if I want to bully the lane hard. I might also consider it as a second item after getting some more tanky components or a more tanky item first if I need the survivability. Notable exception is Yasuo who would get it 4th item. Atma's Reckoning is solid, but I would only get it early with champions that have high base health and stack it easily. I might get it second or third item on Sion, Darius, Garen, Renekton, Nasus, Kled or Shen since it gives 50 AD at 1000 max hp which is really solid and you'll be hitting or past that amount of max hp around that point in the item build. Other bruisers I would get Atma's Reckoning 4th to 6th item depending on how tanky I built early. My old main: {{champion:111}} Bruiser / Tank with Press The Attack Spear of Shojin 3rd or 4th item (or even 2nd if you're winning that hard) would be solid to complement the autoattacks and makes you even more tanky. Atma's Reckoning after Spear gives a ton of bonus AD and more resistances.
: Whatever you do, please PLEASE make sure it's transparent. With runes you can get a good idea of what your opponent took simply by fighting them. I really like that, it makes it clear for you what to expect and what you have to deal with. The old runes were hard for me to appreciate because a bunch of mild stat boosts made it hard to figure out what my opponent was running or how that might affect fighting them. If you do something to let people choose their stat boosts, please make sure it's somehow transparent.
But that was one of the things I absolutely adored about the old rune system. I loved the idea of using them as a way to mind game, to think your way to an advantage by managing to do something that worked and was unexpected. For example, I used to take defensive runes on Orianna, rush a Wit's End, and be able to survive the laning phase easier while also having a better time csing (because I'm bad). Sometimes I would even get kills because people wouldn't respect the auto attack damage. This was one of the reasons I was so sore about the current runes/mastery system other than the fact they basically yanked a **** ton of IP without giving equivalent returns. You can't get people anymore. You can't out think them. Even only knowing which keystone the opponent has makes things infinitely more predictable, simpler, and, to me, less fun.
: That's the thing, they aren't, and the changes in place are solving the exact issues you are saying that they are causing. A person will not get hit while standing outside the hitbox they see, because to them they will always have the full sized hitbox, and a person will not miss someone they see it hitting because they have a slightly smaller hitbox. That was the part you stated that you didn't agree with, but you don't seem to realize that the way they were implemented prevents that issue, it doesn't cause it. The only issue the current implementation causes is hitting a skillshot that looks like you might have missed, but you will always have to sacrifice at least one of those 3 options, there is no way around it. They also are quite accurate, and the manipulation isn't huge either, notice how in the 2 years that Jhin has been out no one has brought it up before? The manipulation is very subtle, and they aren't inaccurate at all. ----------------------------------- I just don't understand the complaints that you bring up when the complaints you have are exactly what Jhin's visual manipulation exists to cover in the first place.
> [{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n4V0dLys,comment-id=000c00000000000300030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-21T06:09:16.834+0000) > > That's the thing, they aren't, and the changes in place are solving the exact issues you are saying that they are causing. > > A person will not get hit while standing outside the hitbox they see, because to them they will always have the full sized hitbox, and a person will not miss someone they see it hitting because they have a slightly smaller hitbox. > > That was the part you stated that you didn't agree with, but you don't seem to realize that the way they were implemented prevents that issue, it doesn't cause it. The only issue the current implementation causes is hitting a skillshot that looks like you might have missed, but you will always have to sacrifice at least one of those 3 options, there is no way around it. > > They also are quite accurate, and the manipulation isn't huge either, notice how in the 2 years that Jhin has been out no one has brought it up before? The manipulation is very subtle, and they aren't inaccurate at all. > > ----------------------------------- > > I just don't understand the complaints that you bring up when the complaints you have are exactly what Jhin's visual manipulation exists to cover in the first place. Except that manipulations clearly don't prevent issues since you can still do things like be hit by a skillshot that you flashed out of. Like with a vel'koz e on the ground you can flash _behind_ vel'koz and still be hit by his e in your original location. This happens with other skill shots too. Generic reference to Lux and hit boxes. Also Sion Q hit box.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazoo Soloist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gPXiqPNQ,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2018-08-20T17:38:40.978+0000) > > But at that rate... why aren't you just playing Dota? Then everyone has access to all the heroes immediately which can lead to greater hero diversity in game. > > I prefer League over Dota _because_ there are fewer active items. If I wanted to spam all of the buttons I'd just hop on FFXIV and pull out my bard. (It can be any other game... I just happen to play FFXIV.) I play League because I love the champion design and whatnot in League. A far greater mechanical diversity goes into champ design, like Ivern's no kill clear or Jhin's reload system. That being said, it's the opposite for items. They're uninspired, boring, and stale. Items in league are basically just stat sticks, which I think makes the game unhealthy. It's not really spamming buttons if you have 3 or 4 active items. Many of them are simple toggles but it feels so much more interactive than League. For example, Ring of Aquila. Toggling on gives your minions some bonus combat stats meaning your wave pushes automatically. Turn it off to freeze. Simple stuff like that would be alot better IMO.
> [{quoted}](name=VIRTU0SO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gPXiqPNQ,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2018-08-21T15:22:52.341+0000) > > I play League because I love the champion design and whatnot in League. A far greater mechanical diversity goes into champ design, like Ivern's no kill clear or Jhin's reload system. That being said, it's the opposite for items. They're uninspired, boring, and stale. Items in league are basically just stat sticks, which I think makes the game unhealthy. It's not really spamming buttons if you have 3 or 4 active items. Many of them are simple toggles but it feels so much more interactive than League. For example, Ring of Aquila. Toggling on gives your minions some bonus combat stats meaning your wave pushes automatically. Turn it off to freeze. Simple stuff like that would be alot better IMO. In that, I wholeheartedly agree with you. The problem is that right now practically all items are additional buttons rather than toggles which I find to be downright irritating. Also, if toggle spamming becomes a required mechanic then that's worse than "must press" actives.
: Predator and Youmoo's isn't something hard to manage though, but if you had a Mikaels, Botrk, Zhonyas, and Protobelt. That would be hard to manage. (I know that isn't a realistic build, but it's an example of what it would be like to have 4 actives in one build.) It's like having 8 abilities instead of 4, Just half anyone can have too.
> [{quoted}](name=ChefBoyarGhost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gPXiqPNQ,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-08-20T23:57:24.652+0000) > > Predator and Youmoo's isn't something hard to manage though, but if you had a Mikaels, Botrk, Zhonyas, and Protobelt. That would be hard to manage. (I know that isn't a realistic build, but it's an example of what it would be like to have 4 actives in one build.) It's like having 8 abilities instead of 4, Just half anyone can have too. You're talking to the person who literally rebound EVERY SINGLE KEY of his FFXIV hotbar because I have trouble manipulating that many keys at once. I already have trouble with fat fingering... and I'm only manipulating 7 keys total. (4 abilities + 2 summoners + maybe 1 or 2 actives). So... I can't. That's one of the reasons I play League over Dota or other similar games is that I DON'T have to worry about hitting a specific one of a large number of keys. Taking that away is like taking away one of the core tenets of League... that its easily accessible for newer players. (I in particular am not, but the point still stands.)
: I agree with the points you made, but the way they made Jhin's visuals appear for different teams is to directly solve issues 2 and 3. By making it appear larger to the receiving end it directly helps to ensure that you aren't hit by things that don't look like they would have hit you, and by making it visually smaller on the attackers end it helps make sure that you don't miss shots that you hit. You say you don't agree with the way the receiving player's perspective is manipulated, then reinforce it with points about issues that the manipulation exists to solve. Not sure if you just misread or misunderstood the how and why of the visual manipulation, but your points are actually in support of how it works currently. Also as far as we know it is only newer champions that utilize this technology. Previously the only differences were things like the warning indicator on Corki's Q to just the enemy team to help reduce confusion in teamfights. I don't think a single champion before Jhin actually had different sized effects for the different teams, just warning particles removed/reduced for allies to boost teamfight clarity.
> [{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n4V0dLys,comment-id=000c000000000003000300000000,timestamp=2018-08-21T01:50:59.956+0000) > > I agree with the points you made, but the way they made Jhin's visuals appear for different teams is to directly solve issues 2 and 3. > > By making it appear larger to the receiving end it directly helps to ensure that you aren't hit by things that don't look like they would have hit you, and by making it visually smaller on the attackers end it helps make sure that you don't miss shots that you hit. > > You say you don't agree with the way the receiving player's perspective is manipulated, then reinforce it with points about issues that the manipulation exists to solve. Not sure if you just misread or misunderstood the how and why of the visual manipulation, but your points are actually in support of how it works currently. > > Also as far as we know it is only newer champions that utilize this technology. Previously the only differences were things like the warning indicator on Corki's Q to just the enemy team to help reduce confusion in teamfights. I don't think a single champion before Jhin actually had different sized effects for the different teams, just warning particles removed/reduced for allies to boost teamfight clarity. I... never said that I didn't agree with visual manipulation. If you read the third sentence of my original reply, you would recognize that I actually _agree with and support_ the visual manipulations. That said, these visual manipulations currently have been implemented in such a way that often times issues such as: 1) The person being hit while standing outside the hitbox indicator they see. 2) The person firing the skillshot doesn't hit the person standing in the hitbox indicator they see. I agreed with Vioforte in that no person should be hit by a skillshot when standing outside the hitbox indicator _they_ see. (Not the person firing the skillshot.) I would go further to also say that no person should miss a skillshot when the target is standing inside the hitbox indicator the shooter sees. (That is to say, the projectile should hit the person it makes visual contact with or passes through. Basically I support the visual manipulations and think that they are great for the game. I just also think that they should be accurate enough that people aren't being hit by things they clearly dodged or miss things that they clearly hit _from their perspective_.
: Unless you're Varus and don't care about the meta and can literally build whatever you want. I'm sure there's someone out there making Tank Varus work.
> [{quoted}](name=Triistana,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gPXiqPNQ,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-08-20T14:54:57.620+0000) > > Unless you're Varus and don't care about the meta and can literally build whatever you want. I'm sure there's someone out there making Tank Varus work. Hmmm... Some "just for the fun of it" theory crafting. "Take it to the late game." Assumed summoners are Heal/Flash. Full Tank: Runes: (Resolve / Sorcery) Resolve: Grasp of the Undying Font of Life Second Wind Overgrowth Sorcery: Celerity / Manaflow Band / Nullifying Orb / Transcendence Gathering Storm Items: (Full Build in no particular order.) Ninja Tabi / Merc Treads / Boots of Mobility / Lucidity Boots Black Cleaver Triforce Deadman's Plate Spirit Visage Warmog's Armor Tank/Support: Runes: (Resolve / Sorcery) Resolve: Grasp of the Undying Font of Life Second Wind Overgrowth Sorcery: Celerity / Manaflow Band / Nullifying Orb / Transcendence Gathering Storm Items: (Full Build in no particular order.) Ninja Tabi / Merc Treads / Boots of Mobility / Lucidity Boots Redemption Athene's Unholy Grail Ardent Censor Mikael's Crucible Knight's Vow / Zeke's Convergence All-In Actives Support: Runes: (Inspiration / Domination) Inspiration: Kleptomancy Magical Footwear Biscuit Delivery Cosmic Insight Domination: Zombie Ward Ingenious Hunter Items: (Full Build in no particular order.) Ninja Tabi Redemption Mikael's Crucible Locket of the Iron Solari Banner of Command Zz'Rot Portal Now to go try this out. ... In bots of course. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Honestly I think they should make the item system more like Dota and move champs damage and stats into base damages and level gains, and focus items more on actives and unique effects to diversify play styles. Right now you basically have a flowchart for what items to buy. Are you a mage? Are you vs. Zed? Are there enemy tanks buying MR? {{item:3285}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3135}} three of these items are entirely passive. first four items no question, every single game. in Dota, just boot choices alone are pretty insane. You get the choice of: * {{item:3117}} +{{item:3083}} * {{item:3142}} * Switching between when you need to tank some damage, casting a spell, and attacking, in the middle of a teamfight or constantly during lane. * {{summoner:13}} * {{summoner:12}} A Dota level overhaul would be massive but it’s necessary to make the game less stale and polar
> [{quoted}](name=VIRTU0SO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gPXiqPNQ,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-08-20T16:26:39.559+0000) > > Honestly I think they should make the item system more like Dota and move champs damage and stats into base damages and level gains, and focus items more on actives and unique effects to diversify play styles. Right now you basically have a flowchart for what items to buy. Are you a mage? Are you vs. Zed? Are there enemy tanks buying MR? {{item:3285}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3135}} three of these items are entirely passive. first four items no question, every single game. > > in Dota, just boot choices alone are pretty insane. You get the choice of: > > * {{item:3117}} +{{item:3083}} > * {{item:3142}} > * Switching between when you need to tank some damage, casting a spell, and attacking, in the middle of a teamfight or constantly during lane. > * {{summoner:13}} > * {{summoner:12}} > > A Dota level overhaul would be massive but it’s necessary to make the game less stale and polar But at that rate... why aren't you just playing Dota? Then everyone has access to all the heroes immediately which can lead to greater hero diversity in game. I prefer League over Dota _because_ there are fewer active items. If I wanted to spam all of the buttons I'd just hop on FFXIV and pull out my bard. (It can be any other game... I just happen to play FFXIV.)
La Bello (NA)
: Active items wont happen or rather are far less likely to happen. They overwhelm players and data showed most people have a disdain for them or think the focus should be mostly on champion mechanics _"playing Zed/Yasuo/Akali is already mind boggling enough why make me juggle actives while im at it?"_. Riot has talked about this multiple times before even giving us crazy stats to go along with it. Very few DFG users even remembered to use DFG before its removal and as a personal anecdote im personally REALLY bad with remembering to use Redemption before I die. Part of the charm of league is being simple and easy to get into. Making a large pool of active effects is the opposite of that idea. I think rather that tossing some actives in you should make more passives that kinda have a short opportunity window like {{item:3508}} {{item:3050}} or {{item:3094}}. These items make windows of play and can change your playstyle but they dont require extra clicky clickys to work which eases the brain.
> [{quoted}](name=Sunibee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gPXiqPNQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-20T04:48:43.598+0000) > > Active items wont happen or rather are far less likely to happen. > They overwhelm players and data showed most people have a disdain for them or think the focus should be mostly on champion mechanics _"playing Zed/Yasuo/Akali is already mind boggling enough why make me juggle actives while im at it?"_. > Riot has talked about this multiple times before even giving us crazy stats to go along with it. Very few DFG users even remembered to use DFG before its removal and as a personal anecdote im personally REALLY bad with remembering to use Redemption before I die. > > Part of the charm of league is being simple and easy to get into. > Making a large pool of active effects is the opposite of that idea. > > I think rather that tossing some actives in you should make more passives that kinda have a short opportunity window like {{item:3508}} {{item:3050}} or {{item:3094}}. > These items make windows of play and can change your playstyle but they dont require extra clicky clickys to work which eases the brain. I agree with this. It's the main reason why I play League over Dota 2 even though I've played both a lot. I don't like having to manage active items on top of my normal abilities... although League is admittedly slowly starting to turn into that with certain builds requiring a lot of active items. (Ie: Predator + Youmoo's + sometime's an item like Hydra or BotRK) I make an exception for things like Zhonya's that are basically required in certain match-ups. Heck, if I had been a game designer, I might have put forth the idea of splitting active items into "combat" and "support" actives and then allowing players to only have one "combat" active at any time. (This would for example force people to choose between Gunblade and Zhonya's but still allow Redemption + Mikael's) An alternative would be to allow people to build multiple actives, but to make all actives share cool downs. So if you had protobelt and Zhonya's then by using Protobelt you couldn't use either for 40 seconds and by using Zhonya's you couldn't use either for 120 seconds.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NipKREmV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-08-19T23:43:46.686+0000) > > wow, i think that's the first time a saw a flash bounceing of that wall, didn't know that was a thing till now, thx for the education(though usless due to azirs wall beeing changed) Because he flashed on it and not over it? If he was up against the wall and then max range flashed I feel like he probably wouldnt be knocked back. Havent tested it so I am speaking out of my ass to be fair.
> [{quoted}](name=Tychusfindlay918,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NipKREmV,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-08-20T01:55:42.598+0000) > > Because he flashed on it and not over it? > > If he was up against the wall and then max range flashed I feel like he probably wouldnt be knocked back. > > Havent tested it so I am speaking out of my ass to be fair. Except that that's not how walls are supposed to work. It's supposed to be if your flash would put you over halfway through it, it'll put you out on the other side. So with him flashing on it, it should matter how far onto it he flashed.
: No, Jinxylord makes a perfectly good point. As a game designer/programmer making games is so much more about creating a sense of fairness and appeal than having the game logic actually be accurate to the dot. Frankly, players don't want a game where everything is super clearly defined for everyone, because that results in ugly assets, projectiles that all look the same, and a massive drop in game clarity. It seems like what we all want (and I say we because programmers are gamers too) however most popular games succeed because of how they manipulate player's perceptions of things. By making Jhin's ult slightly smaller for allies, it does give a feel good payoff when you go for that shot that you think _might_ hit them. It creates a feel good moment for the player, while preserving clarity and counterplay for opponents. To them they were still _clearly_ in the AOE rather than thinking they were in the clear. It actually is a beautiful way of handling all the "that skillshot shouldn't have hit me" complaints while also squashing the "That skillshot looks like it should have hit" complaints. There is a reason that people don't come in complaining about Jhin's hitboxes very often. Of course every decisions comes with a drawback, in this case people feeling like they should have missed; however that is a far less harsh mental backlash than either of the other two, and is heavily outweighed by the benefits. Simply put, it generates more enjoyment for Jhin players, and less frustration for opponents, than showing the same thing for both players. -------------------------------- It's something you can see a lot of in League, like how when you lose vision of a jungle camp you actually keep vision of it for a moment. In pro play you can constantly see players hitting scuttles 1-2 times after they move out of the viewer's vision, because we don't get that. It isn't accurate to how vision should work, but it makes the game feel much smoother for players kiting camps. Manipulating player perception is a key component of making an entertaining game.
> [{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n4V0dLys,comment-id=000c0000000000030003,timestamp=2018-08-20T10:59:17.915+0000) > > No, Jinxylord makes a perfectly good point. As a game designer/programmer making games is so much more about creating a sense of fairness and appeal than having the game logic actually be accurate to the dot. > > Frankly, players don't want a game where everything is super clearly defined for everyone, because that results in ugly assets, projectiles that all look the same, and a massive drop in game clarity. It seems like what we all want (and I say we because programmers are gamers too) however most popular games succeed because of how they manipulate player's perceptions of things. > > By making Jhin's ult slightly smaller for allies, it does give a feel good payoff when you go for that shot that you think _might_ hit them. It creates a feel good moment for the player, while preserving clarity and counterplay for opponents. To them they were still _clearly_ in the AOE rather than thinking they were in the clear. > > It actually is a beautiful way of handling all the "that skillshot shouldn't have hit me" complaints while also squashing the "That skillshot looks like it should have hit" complaints. There is a reason that people don't come in complaining about Jhin's hitboxes very often. > > Of course every decisions comes with a drawback, in this case people feeling like they should have missed; however that is a far less harsh mental backlash than either of the other two, and is heavily outweighed by the benefits. Simply put, it generates more enjoyment for Jhin players, and less frustration for opponents, than showing the same thing for both players. > > -------------------------------- > > It's something you can see a lot of in League, like how when you lose vision of a jungle camp you actually keep vision of it for a moment. In pro play you can constantly see players hitting scuttles 1-2 times after they move out of the viewer's vision, because we don't get that. It isn't accurate to how vision should work, but it makes the game feel much smoother for players kiting camps. > > Manipulating player perception is a key component of making an entertaining game. I think you're taking Vioforte's issue out of perspective. He's probably making the point that the person _being hit_ should see the indicator properly displaying where they _can be hit_. I agree with you that JinxyLord's point is good and I agree with the point about manipulating player perception. But I also disagree with you and agree with Vioforte with regards to the player on the _receiving_ end of the skillshot. 1) It's fine if you're hitting things that your screen it seems like it wouldn't have hit from your perspective. 2) It's _not_ fine if the person _being hit_ is being hit by things that shouldn't hit them from their perspective. 3) It's also not fine if you're _not_ hitting things that it visually looks like you hit, which is another issue that sometimes arises from things like this. While number 1 is good, I think 2 and 3 detract from the games entertainment value by seriously frustrating the player. I can't go a single day without flashing and then dying to something that should have either a) killed me before I could flash or b) shouldn't have hit me because I had flashed. I think a lot of it comes from similar issues in what one player is seeing and what the other player is seeing, but that's less of a hitbox issue and more spaghetti code and/or lag problems.
Ciller (NA)
: I wonder if coding a game isn't as simple as all you seem to make it sound. Go figure out how to fix the coding on the hitboxes and bring it back to us. I'll wait
> [{quoted}](name=KT Ciller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n4V0dLys,comment-id=000c0000000000030000,timestamp=2018-08-20T06:44:59.812+0000) > > I wonder if coding a game isn't as simple as all you seem to make it sound. Go figure out how to fix the coding on the hitboxes and bring it back to us. I'll wait Sure. Give me the code. I'll do it. Speaking from my programming experience, it's really not that hard assuming they implemented it properly in the first place.
: You can find out mostly thorugh "instant feedback report" that pops up when a player gets punished bc of your reports. but idk if you get if for every player that gets punished for your reports or not
> [{quoted}](name=Joschghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=oEF5Qd5m,comment-id=001400000001,timestamp=2018-08-10T19:01:17.108+0000) > > You can find out mostly thorugh "instant feedback report" that pops up when a player gets punished bc of your reports. but idk if you get if for every player that gets punished for your reports or not You don't. You only get one if you happened to report them on the last game before they received a punishment. (Or the specific game they got punished for... I'm not sure which but my point stands.)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazoo Soloist,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nduA20tJ,comment-id=0028,timestamp=2018-08-07T01:44:19.222+0000) > > Great, so you've done more than most people I play with in Silver. Seriously, I'd give you a medal if I could. Dedication is a trait worth bragging about. > > I would however argue that theoretical knowledge or even practice does not necessarily give one the "expertise" qualifying them to make a meaningful comment over this type of issue. Anecdotal, even maybe knowledgeable, but not necessarily meaningful. In fact, I would argue that most people in this topic wouldn't qualify. Heck I don't qualify and I've played this game off and on for 4 years. > > I used to play Starcraft 2 and was platinum level back when platinum was within the top 20% of players. But even though I was good enough to be in the top 20% of players, I wouldn't be qualified to comment on a particular unit, structure, tech tree, any aspect of the game. Because even though I have an understanding of the strength of something with regards to my understanding of the game, I'm thinking of it in terms of my own understanding of the game, not the designer's understanding of the game. > > Course now I'd probably end up in Silver there too since I haven't played in years and most of the strategies I relied upon to make up for my 40 apm have been killed off because of game changes. > > So... no. Just because you put in time and effort does not mean you now magically understand the game. The mechanics, sure. The goals, sure. But the game? I would argue that even a lot of pros don't understand the game. I've played this game for 2 years. Gtfo with your Starcraft rank lmao.
> [{quoted}](name=NotAPurpleFrog,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nduA20tJ,comment-id=00280000,timestamp=2018-08-09T17:38:00.244+0000) > > I've played this game for 2 years. Gtfo with your Starcraft rank lmao. ... What does that have to do with my point?
: Lmao Tanks absolutely shit all over mages b/c AP champs have far less access to true damage and are more burst centric rather than dps and MR/HP shuts that down pretty well, only exceptions to this are DPS oriented mages {{champion:268}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}}
> [{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rEz3qzH2,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:30:30.757+0000) > > Lmao Tanks absolutely shit all over mages b/c AP champs have far less access to true damage and are more burst centric rather than dps and MR/HP shuts that down pretty well, only exceptions to this are DPS oriented mages {{champion:268}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} Which is... you know... kinda the idea. It's the whole Tanks > Burst > DPS > Tanks > Burst > DPS > Tanks... where point of the support is to upset the dynamic or enforce it. There are obvious notable exceptions but in general AP champions are tend to be more bursty and are more likely to have cc because they're balanced around having most of their damage and utility come from their abilities rather than auto attacks. I would argue that Mage doesn't exist as a role in League and that every champ listed as being a mage would be better served as being listed under Assassin, DPS, or Utility with some overlap.
kåemøkk (EUW)
: pff riot is a shit company, 3 guys were telling me to hang my self, so i reported them, and riot didn't do shit. last game a guy said fucking ni*** ill slit your throat you worthless shit and still he didn't even get muted. garbage company
> [{quoted}](name=How2YasuoMain,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=oEF5Qd5m,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-08-08T17:09:04.817+0000) > > pff riot is a shit company, 3 guys were telling me to hang my self, so i reported them, and riot didn't do shit. last game a guy said fucking ni*** ill slit your throat you worthless shit and still he didn't even get muted. garbage company Just out of curiosity, how do you know they didn't get punished? I've been trying for ages to figure out how I can easily find out what results from reports I make.
: Riot, you cant say damage is to high and then buff Yasuo's damage right after.
I highly doubt they'd make a change like this without significantly changing something in his kit to offset. Changes I could see paired with this: (Obviously probably not all of these at the same time.) Yasuo q knock up only hitting the first target when used as a tornado. (This forces him to e-q if he wants to hit multiple people and means the tornado can be avoided by keeping a minion between you and him.) Yasuo q bonus damage removed. Yasuo q crit removed. Yasuo other ability and base damage nerfs. Gathering storm now requires 3 stacks. Gathering storm stacks only from hitting chamions. Basically changing it so that he relies more heavily on his ult for damage and maybe making it harder to proc.
: > [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ty9Vn7An,comment-id=00040000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T00:31:47.059+0000) > > the items you build dont classify the champ type. > > MUNDO is a juggernaut. he isnt a tank go look it up. > > STICKING FEATHERS UP YOUR ASS DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CHICKEN Who classified him as such? Riot. Riot is wrong. He's like Maokai. Maokai doesn't need to build any damage items to 1v1 you and still pump out retarded numbers. Maokai is a tank. Mundo also doesn't need to build any damage items to 1v1 you and still pump out retarded numbers. Mundo is a tank. I don't give a fat flying fuck what some imbecile at Riot wrote in the game code or on the website. Mundo is a tank.
> [{quoted}](name=egOrhythm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ty9Vn7An,comment-id=000400000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-08T13:13:12.460+0000) > > Who classified him as such? Riot. > > Riot is wrong. He's like Maokai. Maokai doesn't need to build any damage items to 1v1 you and still pump out retarded numbers. Maokai is a tank. Mundo also doesn't need to build any damage items to 1v1 you and still pump out retarded numbers. Mundo is a tank. > > I don't give a fat flying fuck what some imbecile at Riot wrote in the game code or on the website. Mundo is a tank. Hmmm... by that definition then... {{champion:63}} is a tank. I don't need to build any damage items on him to 1v1 and still pump out "retarded" numbers. Hence tank.
: Please don't buff Yasuo.
I mean the problem isn't really with buffing his ultimate damage, it's buffing his ultimate damage without significant nerfs to other parts of his kit. I would be fine with Yasuo having ridiculous ultimate damage if for example his q no longer had bonus damage on it. That way it would REQUIRE him to use his ultimate well in team fights to truly be effective as well as making him less oppressive overall. Yasuo being one of my main champs (my actual main is Nautilus... but he's just not really good at anything right now) it always greatly annoyed me that his q and e tooltips don't ever clarify that they don't get any benefit from cdr.
Leetri (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazoo Soloist,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=G7g1RfeZ,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-08-07T15:09:58.289+0000) > > Yes. Because if I'm actually decent I shouldn't be having enough of those kinds of games to make a significant dent in my LP gain or loss. If you're just "decent" you're not gonna get any benefit from the change either. If you did then the system would inflate the ranks of players, unless they also increase the LP loss overall to average it out and at that point you're back to square one and achieved nothing. These kind of systems are only beneficial to players who focus on padding their own stats, which is why they removed it from Overwatch.
> [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=G7g1RfeZ,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T11:11:29.672+0000) > > If you're just "decent" you're not gonna get any benefit from the change either. If you did then the system would inflate the ranks of players, unless they also increase the LP loss overall to average it out and at that point you're back to square one and achieved nothing. These kind of systems are only beneficial to players who focus on padding their own stats, which is why they removed it from Overwatch. You're misquoting me. I never said that the proposed solution was the right solution, I said that if there was a truly objective metric for measuring a player's contribution to the team and I was rated as having terrible contribution, then I deserve to lose more lp or gain less since I am dragging the team down. The concept remains true. If you are really better than the people you are currently playing with, then you should be contributing more than them to the team more often than not in which case you should be climbing faster than the average person you are playing with and much faster than the people who are dragging their teams down.
Leetri (EUW)
: That will never happen. Overwatch used to have that but they removed it for the higher ranks because it was detrimental to the game, whereas it had barely any impact on the lower ranks so they just left it in. You think comebacks are rare now? With this system comebacks would never, ever happen because people would rather give up and just farm minions in a side lane to pad their stats so they lose less LP. You'd get people saying "don't finish yet I need like 5 more kills to maximize my LP gain" and killstealing would be an actual thing cause now you're actually stealing LP from them. And remember, everyone has games where they go 1/8 and is useless. Are you willing to get less LP if you win those games and lose even more LP if you lose?
> [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=G7g1RfeZ,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:11:17.049+0000) > > That will never happen. Overwatch used to have that but they removed it for the higher ranks because it was detrimental to the game, whereas it had barely any impact on the lower ranks so they just left it in. > You think comebacks are rare now? With this system comebacks would never, ever happen because people would rather give up and just farm minions in a side lane to pad their stats so they lose less LP. > You'd get people saying "don't finish yet I need like 5 more kills to maximize my LP gain" and killstealing would be an actual thing cause now you're actually stealing LP from them. > > And remember, everyone has games where they go 1/8 and is useless. Are you willing to get less LP if you win those games and lose even more LP if you lose? Yes. Because if I'm actually decent I shouldn't be having enough of those kinds of games to make a significant dent in my LP gain or loss.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kazoo Soloist,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jo3hlrlh,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-07T02:30:37.636+0000) > > It's not necessarily that Riot doesn't like balancing off meta picks, but that the balance becomes practically impossible. The idea of the jungle as a sort of fourth lane that is shared between teams and everywhere instead of a straight line is already a concept that's difficult to balance. > > What is the jungle meant to do? > > Balancing this is a huge issue. Too easy to clear and anyone to clear it meaning that you get things like funnel strategy in addition to carry junglers. Make it too hard and you restrict the number of champions who can jungle too much. > > And then there's the issue of balancing each champion for each role. What if by making it playable in an off meta position, you break it in a manner you didn't expect? For example if they buffed Akali damage to jungle camps then suddenly you might have lane Akalis go sneaking off to farm jungle camps for the extra gold despite not getting the special experience since its so easy to clear camps. > > Not that this is an issue that just pertains to Akali... I think that this is an issue Riot needs to think about just in general with regards to all champions. Heck I could play Brand jungle from back when that was a thing and still get away with it. > > Also... it just occurred to me. If you're only doing two camps before backing, you might want to rethink your jungle path. I'm pretty sure most champs in League can do at least three camps before backing if jungled properly. (I'm still waiting for jungle Braum / Alistar to be a thing again... but having a high clear speed is pretty mandatory in the current state of the game.) Just getting blue leashed alone nearly kills akali, her jungle clear is horrible, she doesnt have the dmg or health to jungle, and her q only because a good jungle clearing tool at level 9
> Just getting blue leashed alone nearly kills akali, her jungle clear is horrible, she doesnt have the dmg or health to jungle, and her q only because a good jungle clearing tool at level 9 Just because you go low doesn't mean you can't clear. I was just in practice tool and had no problems running Red -> Blue -> Scuttle -> Gromp -> Wolves -> Big Raptor even with a standard Domination/X rune tree and no leash. (Cause practice tool :/) I tried a few other rune setups for goofs... don't use Fleet Footwork + Bloodline with Resolve secondary... or Fleet Footwork + Domination... But Akali jungle is totally doable. You just have to accept that you're going to die if the other jungler catches you, which is completely reasonable because you're supposed to be a late game scaling assassin.
: after looking through your op.gg, one tip i can give you is to practice your csing more. The gold you get from last hitting minions can go a long way so try to focus on bringing that up and you will be able to buy more items sooner leading to more damage/usefullness in teamfights.
This. I might be a garbage tier silver but I shifted my priorities from winning lane to getting cs and immediately saw huge improvements. Instead of having to win games with 50 cs deficits at 15 minutes I'm now around even and sometimes ahead of my opponent while still bullying lane most of the time. And if you think about that in terms of just ranged caster minions, the least profitable in the game, that's basically an extra 700 gold which can be the difference between a complete item or just buying a component. Toxic control brings up a solid point with the lose lane win game mentality. I had a much higher elo friend who always used Sivir as his go to ADC since he could play safe, not feed, and then still bring utility with his ult and aoe damage from his q and w to help in team fights despite being down cs.
Ezking15 (OCE)
: I remember back in Season 1-2 (even 3-4 but 1-2 were my faves). You can play what you want where you want, no criticism, no spoilt brat running it down mid, have a laugh, co-operate and PLAY the game. If Riot can just go back to their roots. Sigh.
The problem with that is its not really a _Riot_ issue, it's a community attitude issue.
: Same though.
Agreed. The only better meta I can think of was when Klepto was all the rage and Nasus and Illaoi were picked constantly. Made me feel good because I could just pick Yi top and not be trolling.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pete Ieffo,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JMngtELj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-07T02:12:28.993+0000) > > So you'd rely on trolls to ban other trolls? That's why there is the honor system, and people that reach lvl 5 should be reviewed first, its kinda simple don't you think they just have to put a little bit of effort and the community could become more great?
> [{quoted}](name=ILoveNatchos,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JMngtELj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-07T02:15:49.705+0000) > > That's why there is the honor system, and people that reach lvl 5 should be reviewed first, its kinda simple don't you think they just have to put a little bit of effort and the community could become more great? You only answered half of the problem and not even the main point. The main problem that they had was that the back log of reports was 6+ months long. The issue isn't as simple as you make it out to be. And what's to stop true trolls from farming honor so they can troll tribunal results instead of in game?
Xavanic (NA)
: Can you plz bring back akali jungle
It's not necessarily that Riot doesn't like balancing off meta picks, but that the balance becomes practically impossible. The idea of the jungle as a sort of fourth lane that is shared between teams and everywhere instead of a straight line is already a concept that's difficult to balance. What is the jungle meant to do? Balancing this is a huge issue. Too easy to clear and anyone to clear it meaning that you get things like funnel strategy in addition to carry junglers. Make it too hard and you restrict the number of champions who can jungle too much. And then there's the issue of balancing each champion for each role. What if by making it playable in an off meta position, you break it in a manner you didn't expect? For example if they buffed Akali damage to jungle camps then suddenly you might have lane Akalis go sneaking off to farm jungle camps for the extra gold despite not getting the special experience since its so easy to clear camps. Not that this is an issue that just pertains to Akali... I think that this is an issue Riot needs to think about just in general with regards to all champions. Heck I could play Brand jungle from back when that was a thing and still get away with it. Also... it just occurred to me. If you're only doing two camps before backing, you might want to rethink your jungle path. I'm pretty sure most champs in League can do at least three camps before backing if jungled properly. (I'm still waiting for jungle Braum / Alistar to be a thing again... but having a high clear speed is pretty mandatory in the current state of the game.)
Vanëssa (EUNE)
: Anyone else feels tired of all these "balance" experts?
I mean, damage creep is a bit of a thing. Otherwise why would anyone pick up the new champ if they already owned all the champions? Although I don't suppose that really matters since someone who already owns all the champions can just get the new one by popping saved up champion capsules... It still pisses me off greatly that Riot never properly compensated players who bought into the old rune system and already have all the champions. Like, they gave out free skins... but that doesn't compensate what the player bought it for. Players like me bought runes because they can used on any and all champions to do cool things... and then they replaced with a thing that can only be used for one champion that I may or may not even play? Honestly I would start a class action but I'm pretty sure I'd be laughed out before ever making it to court and I highly doubt that a significant number of players in a similar position care enough to make a stand. And welcome to the League Community where the vast majority of well read posts are made by players who really aren't qualified to make them and either don't know they aren't qualified, know and are just in denial about it, or just make them anyway because **** it.
: League Of Legends OVERWATCH ?
I'm... pretty sure Riot tried this. It was called the Tribunal but I'm not sure if there was any restrictions required to participate in it. It was eventually killed off because it was waaaaaaay too slow. Like 6+ back logs on reports to be reviewed. In short, its a great idea in theory but requires too many parts to go right for it to work. They got rid of it because they couldn't implement it in a meaningful fashion.
: Did I deserve this chat restriction?
Imho yes. But the ally should also be banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=2nd Chance,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4hymv2Qj,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-08-05T03:34:46.977+0000) > > This just makes me curious what the heck CertainlyT is gonna do next considering how everyone is so pissed about Zoe > > Is he gonna keep pushing that envelope and risk that out-lash, or is he finally gonna step back a bit? I'm fine with him pushing certain boundaries but it's never healthy to introduce a new mechanic that breaks elements of the game. Kalista hopping for instance. Zoe's free item actives and summoners. Morde's dragon pet. These things are inherently unable to be balanced. They can ONLY be over powered or tuned so low because inherently busted that the champion as a whole remains very underpowered. It's the same issue I had with Eve's passive after the first rework. Unlimited stealth from level 1 is just inherently busted and the champion could NEVER be balanced as long as that was part of her kit. She's fine now that that's gone. It's just poor design philosophy to put in new things that break the fundamental elements of the game as it leads to greater and greater instances of power creep. We had the exact same issues in Dota when we were FIRST making the game 15 years ago and while it was fun to invent new things it was hella hard to balance and we only had 100 or 200 total people playing the game then. I quit playing Dota 2 for exactly this reason, the clunky kind of gameplay combined with the extreme power creep.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4hymv2Qj,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-08-05T03:42:29.898+0000) > > I'm fine with him pushing certain boundaries but it's never healthy to introduce a new mechanic that breaks elements of the game. Kalista hopping for instance. Zoe's free item actives and summoners. Morde's dragon pet. These things are inherently unable to be balanced. They can ONLY be over powered or tuned so low because inherently busted that the champion as a whole remains very underpowered. It's the same issue I had with Eve's passive after the first rework. Unlimited stealth from level 1 is just inherently busted and the champion could NEVER be balanced as long as that was part of her kit. She's fine now that that's gone. It's just poor design philosophy to put in new things that break the fundamental elements of the game as it leads to greater and greater instances of power creep. We had the exact same issues in Dota when we were FIRST making the game 15 years ago and while it was fun to invent new things it was hella hard to balance and we only had 100 or 200 total people playing the game then. I quit playing Dota 2 for exactly this reason, the clunky kind of gameplay combined with the extreme power creep. I actually like the Kalista hopping mechanic, but I fully agree that she needed nerfs to punish people for not using the mechanic or using the mechanic poorly. The main problem with CertainlyT's champions tend really not to be with kit or concept, but with the way in which it is implemented. He's thinking about how to make the champion useful and fun. As a champion creator I find him to be great. My issue is that his champions seem to all make it to release without taking into context their _power_ within the game. I like his often wonky champion designs, but somewhere in the pipeline to release they need to be, you know, balanced...
: Brand takes absolutely no effort to play.
Great, so you've done more than most people I play with in Silver. Seriously, I'd give you a medal if I could. Dedication is a trait worth bragging about. I would however argue that theoretical knowledge or even practice does not necessarily give one the "expertise" qualifying them to make a meaningful comment over this type of issue. Anecdotal, even maybe knowledgeable, but not necessarily meaningful. In fact, I would argue that most people in this topic wouldn't qualify. Heck I don't qualify and I've played this game off and on for 4 years. I used to play Starcraft 2 and was platinum level back when platinum was within the top 20% of players. But even though I was good enough to be in the top 20% of players, I wouldn't be qualified to comment on a particular unit, structure, tech tree, any aspect of the game. Because even though I have an understanding of the strength of something with regards to my understanding of the game, I'm thinking of it in terms of my own understanding of the game, not the designer's understanding of the game. Course now I'd probably end up in Silver there too since I haven't played in years and most of the strategies I relied upon to make up for my 40 apm have been killed off because of game changes. So... no. Just because you put in time and effort does not mean you now magically understand the game. The mechanics, sure. The goals, sure. But the game? I would argue that even a lot of pros don't understand the game.
Fast Enough (EUNE)
: I'm not saying I was good I am saying that my team didn't listen to me and that's why we lost game Also because of their greed I'm far from perfect But I am tired of people not listening to me
> [{quoted}](name=ZedMainHere269,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Z7uMpFm2,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-08-06T18:17:51.762+0000) > > I'm not saying I was good > I am saying that my team didn't listen to me and that's why we lost game > Also because of their greed > I'm far from perfect > But I am tired of people not listening to me Just out of curiosity, why should they listen to you in the first place? It's solo queue... there is no designated shotcaller and people are not obligated to follow other people's calls. Sure it will lead to better team cohesion and therefore more wins, but what makes your call definitely better than anyone else's? (Disregarding retrospective analysis.) There's nothing _forcing_ people to do that if they don't want to.
: Smugness over fairness and Justice
Although I do agree with the point that Riot needs to make their punishment system more transparent. I can't count the number of times I have reported people for inting, harassing, etc. and not get any feedback saying that their account has even been so much as reviewed. Like, as far as I know, I haven't seen anything done about people that do some of the worst **** in league but don't do it frequently enough to be marked as recurring. Its super irritating people are getting away with whatever they want just because they don't do it repeatedly.
aniros (NA)
: MLGamerDude - Summoner search results - League of Legends
While I agree that everyone in the league community would appreciate Riot making an appropriate change that mitigated the effects of trolls/inters on a game, I disagree with the changes you suggest. My main problem is the voting system. If you go with the first suggestion, then there is no incentive for winning team members to help vote out the troll. In fact members of the winning team would probably refrain from voting out troll because it would potentially require them to give up their win. A counterargument would be that people on the winning team would help vote out the troll because "it is the right thing to do." To these people I respond with I don't take this argument seriously because, although it is sad, while I do trust that the majority of the community would do the right thing, I do not trust that it will be enough of a majority to make a difference. As for the second suggestion, what is to prevent players from throwing others under the bus for the incentives? For example, the free lp? In short, while I like the idea, I do not feel like this is the right way to go about it. Then again, who am I to criticize considering I haven't suggested a better idea.
Limmie (NA)
: You can submit a report through the player support by writing up a ticket under "general questions". IDK if they actually take action for things said on private chat though.
If brought to their attention, I don't see why they wouldn't. Especially since it should be glaringly obvious this isn't a case of good buddies poking fun at each other, it's one person ranting insultingly at another.
: A lot of the time, when someone tries something that isn't meta, it either blows up in their face (I tried karthus jng, and that only kinda works sometimes), or blows up in the other team's face, and then abused by everyone (me and my friendgroup do tank veigar support and it is so evil). Thus, when someone tries an off meta thing, it generally leads to turmoil in the game, and the meta slaves don't appreciate the game not going how their guides said it would go. At least, that's how I see it. Honestly, I don't see how lulu could jng, and I'm super leery of xerath, but if they work for you, go for it. And ignore the people who tell you to kys. They're just salty, sad people.
Ah yes, more people that play tank Veigar. AVE MY BRETHREN! MUAHAHAha... hack... cough...
: @Riot NaKyle I've worked in this industry for years. I've had my time with Riot Games; I will preface this by saying that I am no longer member of their staff. I don't care if I get reprimanded for this by the staff because this needs to be said. You all need to get your collective heads out of your arses and actually come together and create a stance on this that is UNIVERSAL AND APPLIES TO ALL LEVELS AND LOCALS FOR THIS GAME. It should be pretty clear cut by the language in the TOS. All of player support should have to know a lot about the TOS, I know this because it's basically the player support bible for how to deal with situations of PLAYER A reporting PLAYER B for whatever action they were taking in game. I know support gets bombarded with player requests for bans to take place for actions and the system should be much more clear cut and transparent as to when bans are handed down or not. The biggest problem with how this has been handled is that the language in the TOS is ambiguous at best and it really shouldn't be that open ended in this case. I suggested that a system be put into place when I was there. It might sound familiar to you: A player calling out into chat for another player to get "reported" should always be classified as player harassment for two reasons: 1) **IT IS HARASSMENT regardless of the content of the message**. It is harassing to the targeted player and to the other team to have another player disrupt the flow of the game with negative chat like this in the ALL CHAT. Even if what they said was not offensive to the player, ALL CHATTING "REPORT PLAYER X" is distracting and can even change the way players are acting in the game (i.e., cause a team to target player X because they now know the harassing player will not support them). Regardless of the content of the message it still shows a clear cut lack of unity on the teams behalf and CAN AND WILL ALWAYS effect the game, regardless of the fact that the messages content is or is not defamatory. 2) **IT IS NOT NECESSARY for more than one player in the game to report another player for any reportable offense.** The Instant Feedback system was designed to automatically detect if a report was needed or not and as you yourself stated: **ONLY NEEDS ONE PLAYER TO REPORT ANOTHER PLAYER FOR IT TO KICK INTO ACTION**. The act of calling out another player to be reported is not necessary in any way shape or form for this to happen, therefore the act of doing this should be classified as negative and defamatory behavior regardless of the nature of the message be it "Report PLAYER X, they AFK'ed" or "Report PLAYER X, they're a (FILL IN RACISIT/DEROGATORY TERM HERE)." Harassment of another player should always be taken as a punishable offense, regardless of how slight it is; a lightly toxic offense allowed, leads players into being more toxic in nature in the future and should be squashed at the start, not when it gets bad enough to ban them for it. Riot should be more willing to issue chat restrictions to get their point across on this and the complete lack of action in attempting to usurp this type of behavior is appalling. It should be that they take action on these lower offenses with lower punishments to make the player understand that they are being watched and that this type of thing, **WHILE NOT BANNABLE** can result in action being taken against them. This was discussed at length in the past while such an issue had come up and we had decided that this should be the stance, but it was never approved by anyone as an official standpoint (**BUT SHOULD HAVE BEEN**). This is why Riot Husker had made the comment that he had made because that was intended to be the stance across the board and it just wasn't put into place. And I am sorry, > When we think about updates to Instant Feedback, we think about solving problems that really distract you from what matters: Winning the game. And this issue just doesn't chart that high. It's very clearly understood that this effects the low tiered levels of game at its very core. All games where this happens it effects the outcome almost 100% of the time and I don't think I could possibly sit here (being locked into bronze as I am) and watch a member of the player support team come onto the forums and try to tell me that it doesn't effect the game when it is very clearly known throughout all of the support staff (and the player base) that it does. There wouldn't have been need to comment on this (by Riot Husker) if it didn't. I have honestly off and on seen this behavior in game and warned people about doing this because it's a distraction and negatively effects team unity 100% of the time that it happens. Players can attempt to try to fix the issue and solve the problem in game **BUT EVEN THAT IS A DISTRACTION FROM WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO: WIN THE GAME**, and you can not say that it is not harder to CS as an ADC when you have to chat to your team to get them to stop flame warring each other. It is a distraction 100% of the time, and it should be reportable 100% of the time. We had even discussed ways to warn players about these sorts of things; the in game pop up box that warns players that their actions had been reviewed and action had been taken against their account, should be good enough. Most times players that see that go "oh shite" and stop acting this way. Players also receive a box to let them know when a report has had action taken upon those whom they had reported, which is good feedback for the people who are reporting these kinds of behaviors to let them know, "Hey, we actually do care that you care about this too." I know that the new client doesn't have this feature working (from what I understood) and it needs to be a higher priority because the feedback system needs to let the community know when it's actually doing work for them. I am sorry if I come across rude or pissed off about this (honestly I actually am kind of pissed off about this) but there needs to be a single statement by Riot Games in regards to this. Not a forum post by a somewhat misleading Riot Staff member that hadn't bothered to research the topic or to look over what their own co-workers had previously stated in the past. This comment makes Riot Husker (whom I have great respect for) look like he was talking out of his ass. It shows a very clear cut lack of a unified approach to player support and only serves to make Riot Games as a whole look bad to the community. You guys need to get your act together. Honestly if I were Riot NaKyle's supervisor I would advise him to delete this post and possibly tell him never to post on the topic again unless told to by the higher ups. All you've served to do here is make yourself look like you don't know what you are talking about OR at best, make Riot Husker look like he didn't know what he was talking about. Get your act together and finally address the issue with a well thought out and clear cut answer. Make it **THE RIOT GAMES OFFICIAL STANDPOINT** and go from there. And someone, please revoke Riot Draggles's posting rights. He basically trolled on another staff members post and didn't actually bother to add anything useful or insightful to the conversation besides calling the community "Sheep". If I were their super I'd write him up for that... I like League of Legends, I like the League of Legends community (as a whole), I enjoy playing the game and it's a great way to relax after a shite day at work. TLDR: Riot needs to have an Official standpoint on this.. not a bunch of blathering idiots making comments that are the opposite of each other... {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
When we think about updates to Instant Feedback, we think about solving problems that really distract you from what matters: Winning the game. And this issue just doesn't chart that high. ...I'm sorry but, what? Last I checked, this game was supposed to be about having fun. That's what really matters. It shouldn't matter whether a specific player wins or loses, (Wins and losses will happen naturally.), as long as everyone is enjoying the game... Apparently now, winning takes priority over having fun. Either I missed the change of stances in marketing over the years or I'm just flat misinterpreting the point of playing League of Legends in the first place...
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Kazoo Soloist

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