Meddler (NA)
: Thinking was that as a delayed CC effect giving it some zoning impact on other enemies was also appropriate. We'll see how it plays out of course but think the counterplay present there means it's not directly comparable to immediate AoE immobolizing effects.
Definitely agree here, but think the cooldown should be significantly higher given how short it is now. The cooldown is wicked low compared to similar abilities like lux and morg Q especially since all of Sennas builds spec heavy into CDR.
: Funny post coming from a 3s player with no backpacks who probably can't get above 100 lp masters
: As a long time Teemo player, this changes are great! thanks a lot Just wanted to ask. I don't personally play Zed a lot, but since Cho Gath got an execution marker (like Urgot's and Pyke's) and he already has the shiruken execution mark, I was wondering if you would consider adding it at some point where whoever would be in charge of such a thing would have some available time. For Cho gath it worked wonders since I play in low spec mode and couldn't notice many times his execution marker
Zed cant because the amount of damage hos ult deals scales with the damage he dealt while it's active. It's not flat like cho or urgot.
: anything on beloved{{champion:10}} ,Meddler ? she was supposed to get some improvements in quality of playstyle
Just get her on TFT instead. Way better champ there xd
murchalvias (EUNE)
: Gold funneling should be removed from Twisted Treeline
Oh boy. Another first time 3s player complaining about support meta and getting hundreds of upvotes because more people that dont have even the slightest idea what they're talking about, with not even the slightest idea how to play the map chiming in like they've played more than 10 games in their lives. Laughable actually. I suppose you people want to change the rules of soccer right? Because not using your hands is lame and boring right? He literally contradicts himself right off the bat. Why bother with the post? "Then we found support meta (stop fucking calling it funnel meta you 5s player. Never was funnel meta. Never is funnel meta. Hyper meta or support meta, take your pick. The fact that you even say funnel meta shows you're not a 3s player. You're a 5s player. So don't come to our map like some imperialist and try to make it like the one you LITERALLY just said is boring and taxing on the brain to play.) Where people just farm and blah blah blah can't win cuz I'm bad and then we had to start playing aggressive and forcing early fights" Oh you mean just like how you claimed you enjoyed playing 3v3?? With early skirmishes and brawling to snowball the gane at 3 minutes? WOW who knew NOT letting Olaf Taric (which you're fucking braindead if you let the enemy draft those champions in the current meta anyway) farm for 20 minutes and roll your whole team over means you actually win the game?!?! He literally answered his own issue with the map. BE AGGRESSIVE. MAKE EARLY PLAYS. You don't fucking go into summoners rift seeing a kogmaw, yi, kayle, lulu comp and be like "yeah I'll just farm for a bit and see how this plays out" NO you invade, you kill them, you snowball, you deny farm. ITS NOT HARD. There is NO SAFETY NET in 3v3. No wards means CONSTANT pressure when you're off the map. The constant possibility lurking in their mind that a random poppy brand can be sitting in the bush in front of me at any possible moment and I just get deleted from the game. Make them terrified to walk into their own jungle. Crush the spirit out of them and end the game in <15 minutes. Its not hard. You just have to not be a dumbass thinking that your poppy darius comp is gonna do jackshit into an olaf taric when you let him get warrior, cleaver and steraks for free. Its really not difficult. Stop trying to remove the one thing that actually makes 3v3 unique, the fact that two metas are completely viable ways to win the game. I've been playing support meta for years in mid-high challenger in NA. Me and my trio still regularly get our asses completely handed to us by the top teams REGARDLESS OF WHICH META THEY PLAY. Rift will NEVER be as much of an outlet for mechanical skill to shine like 3v3 because it's too forgiving. Catchup xp and comeback bounties and shit. You dont get that in 3s because you will never farm if your opponent is better than you. You will get outskilled and massacred because the better bot will land and dodge more skillshots, he will get more pressure and roam top, forcing the enemy under tower and out of their jungle, grab alter to deny movement speed and run you the fuck down if you try to do anything about it. The map is merciless and you will get your ass handed to you if you're not the better player. So get good or shut up. Learn to play against the meta. Don't cry that it exists and you're unwilling to get better because it's "mentally taxing" and don't act like all the people that played one game against support meta and instantly stopped playing the map have any idea what in the world they're talking about. They're gonna upvote and screech about anything that says remove twisted treeline or remove support meta and get a raging boner when they do cuz it's just a circle jerk of garbage players that have no clue how to improve or learn and would rather just cry. Oh and btw, no need to stroke your ego putting your solo queue rank in the post like it has any meaning. Different map, different skillset, different ranking. Solo queue gold players are some of the most threatening 3s players I've ever played against in high challenger. Skills do not transfer over. Shit stomping solo queue challengers in 3v3 is easily the most gratifying experience because their ego is too fat to realize it's a completely different skillset. Your zed one trick in challenger solo queue is getting no where in 3v3. Surprised if you escape platinum. So stop acting like it gives your post any validity or merit because you're a high ranking in the map you literally just said you're sick of and don't want to play.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 15
Hey Meddler, Is there a team actually working on the client? There are tons of bugs that have been in the client FAR longer than should be allowed. Some of which are much more infuriating than others. Another thing I would like to draw your attention to is this seemingly random bug on Twisted Treeline that came out of nowhere. Basically certain places on the map just arbitrarily glow the wrong color for some reason? It's hard to explain. But basically the wrong color is being applied to random places and it's just really weird and offputting. Also the Vilemaw minion buffs randomly causes huge streaks of that light blue color to streak across the whole screen almost seizure-like. Lots of visual bugs in TT that are being ignored now as far as we can tell and we're fairly sure that Riot just doesnt know about it at all.
Keyru (NA)
: 2018 End of Season Rewards and Honor
I'm glad I was so outspoken about this, even if I was downvoted to all hell and constantly told I was toxic and deserved it. Lowkey sad that I gave up on my challenger jacket grind when I knew I wasn't gonna make the honor threshold, but I **really** wanted Victorianna so totally worth. Its gonna be a cold winter tho. Thanks Riot! Made my day, and killed all my friends memes :^) Sincerely, One honor 1 checkpoint 3/3 boi
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 12
Hey Meddler, A couple weeks ago, Riot MapleNectar mentioned that you specifically were looking into potential Twisted Treeline updates/changes. Any word on how those are or are not coming along? Would love to see some changes, ANY changes to spice it up at this point. And really hoping that the removal of the monster hunter debuff also applies go Twisted Treeline as well. It didnt even make support meta worse, it just destroyed any chance of uncommon or unconventional picks and forced people to only play renekton, darius, olaf, and lucian hyper almost exclusively, which is no fun. (This also happened when the ability to buy relic shield & jungle item simultaneously but thats a story for another day I suppose).
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 10
Hey Meddler Riot MapleNectar mentioned somrthing a couple weeks back about you working on potential TT changes/updates. Any word on that?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 15
Hey Meddler, Any chance Riot could look into the enormous amount of bugs that keep finding their way into the client? I find myself tilted before games even start. Every time I try to relog I have to restore to an earlier patch to fix. I cant invite my friends to games because it says they're inelligible for absolutely no reason, invites dont go through properly, hextech crafting and certain other tabs show up as a big black screen, groups of friends randomly switching order for no reason, champ select issues forcing dodges upon dodges not being able to lock bans or champions, not being able to trade champs with teammates forcing more dodges. Its getting beyond frustrating and these are some issues that I thought would be higher priority than they appear to be from Riot's eyes.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
Hey Meddler, I am a challenger 3v3 player on NA ever since 3v3 became a flex queue (God bless you guys for that by the way) with roughly 800+ games last season in 3v3 and currently 600-700 this season (you can this account to see) and I've been hovering around 700 LP (rank 6ish) for the past few weeks but took a huge hit in the past few days unfortunately. Anyway, I am personally pro support meta as I believe it makes the game mode insanely more skill oriented due to the proper rotations and macroplay you see optimized in high elo 3v3 games. It makes bot lane a significantly more skill based lane as you dont have to sit under tower all game to avoid jungle ganks from over mid wall or from behind wolf camp wall. It allows mages to play aggressive and play for solo kills and to deny cs. It also allows bot lane to impact the top lane 2v2 in support meta much more successfully because good bot lane roams often decide a game that could be favored in the opposite direction (say you hace xin zhao hyper into darius hyper, typically a poor matchup for xin zhao due to darius' early kill pressure in lane with his hook, if xin zhaos bot laner gains pressure bot and makes a successful roam top to kill darius? Boom snowballing xinzhao, and xin's morgana or whomever just won them the game, they get free altar, jungle camps, and now xin is miles ahead of darius.) Well that's mainly from the bot laner's perspective. How about from carry and support perspective. Well of course the support role allows support only players to play 3s which is good (I personally have a diehard support main friend who insists that he should be able to play thresh in 3s against all advice). But in terms of the hyper support 2v2 lane, there is still interaction in the lane as one team tries to gain pressure over the other team, with one good trade it allows the stronger duo to invade and take camps and altar for free. Often times the weaker duo will try to contest the jungle camps or altar if theyre in a position to do so. Already we're seeing significantly interaction in both lanes as well in the jungle that a lot of the nontwisted treeline players seem to voice about. Now lets talk about jungle meta. Having a jungler in 3v3 saps alot of the fun out of the game. This is because of how ridiculously easy it is to gank these lanes wuth certain champions. I played some jungle meta yesterday when I played solo queue (big mistake, I know) so I was forced into top lane and I was playing against a kayn jungle. I was playing renekton into aatrox top lane (fun champ by the way, nearly one shotting me at level 1) and when I tell you every single time I dashed in to trade with aatrox that kayns little E bubble showed up under me, I'm not exaggerating. This man had nothing better to do with his time than use his E off cooldown to come top lane and often times just sat in the lane with nothing better to do. And I've played a fair amount of jungle meta and against it as well. This is common. A common strategy when Ivern was popular was to take relic shield at the start with jungle item and then in between each clear just walk into your lanes and heal them with relic shield. Literally because he had nothing else to do. Most games with jungle meta just come down to which jungler decides to face check the enemy bush in mid and get nuked first, or just troll in one of your lanes until camps are up. Of the like 4 or 5 jungle meta games i played yesterday alone, at least 4 of those games first blood was decided by my jungler randomly walking into the enemy mid bush for no reason and getting instantly collapsed on by bot and top and just dying. In my opinion, the only way to make jungle meta truly fun and interactive is to change the map and make it a little bigger. Knowing riot would probably rather dumpster the map altogether, I'll give you my thoughts on the changes that have been proposed. I think these changes will even out support metas early game vs jungle meta and will give the significant vulnerability in the early game. It may even suffice to say that this will make support comp nearly unplayable versus any aggressive top and jungle duo. I also believe this will make certain champions that need to rush tiamat for clear speed significantly worse than those that rush jungle enchantments which signiciantly lowers champion diversity and build diversity. For example, xin zhao who needs tiamat first back now gains significantly less gold than darius who doesnt build tiamat, but rather rushes warrior or cinderhulk. Or Kayle for example who needs to rush nashors tooth for cdr is now completely gimped out of viability in favor of lucian who rusbes warrior or bloodrazor. Ironically champions that are already obscenely more powerful picks are just getting buffed even harder because of these changes. Already dominant hypers like darius, olaf, lucian, illaoi who you see picked or banned every game more or less are now significantly stronger than those that rush other items like mordekaiser with rylais rush, xin with tiamat, kayle with nashors etc. This change may make support meta early game more abusable but it completely destroys champion diversity in the hypercarry role and it may just destroy support comp altogether, which is sad. Other people have suggested many other changes to more evenly nerf support comp and rewards early jungle pressure, but at this point I personally don't feel like support meta is significantly stronger than jungle meta and it wont take much at all to push the mode into complete jungle meta dominance. And I think this change will do it.
Auve (NA)
: Roman doesn't play with Whatcd and Movement. Also, it sounds like your problem is playing solo versus premades. It turns out, having voice at your disposal dramatically increases your chances of winning - as does having a history of synergy between players. Your issue is playing solo in a flex queue, friend. The Support Meta might exacerbate your problem, but it doesn't cause it.
I believe he's referring to prash movement and whatcd, since they queue alot together on smurfs and theyve been fluctuating ranks 2-4 for the past few days
: Thanks for bringing this up. I generally only play ranked 3v3 at the start of the season to get gold for increased season rewards, but now I am remembering how different the climb was this year because of the onset of gold funneling using Braum and Taric primarily. At the time I remember thinking how contrary gold funneling was to everything else about TT. It felt like a cop-out in a game mode that it mostly meant for long fights between brawlers, shootouts with mages, and nonstop action until the end of the game. And I know it can feel crappy for new players to accept that in 80% of games you are expected to play a brawler top and a mage bottom. But what feels worse is how a single strategy can upset years of meta and completely change the way a game mode plays. In gold funnel games, TT turns from that action packed brawlfest into a painful march toward inevitable defeat. There just aren't enough ways to counter it. In SR, the jungle is big enough that if you can track the gold funnelers, you can steal from them and put them behind. In TT, there are only 3 camps per side and only one of them is exposed enough to get regularly stolen. So countering via jungle becomes incredibly difficult because of the size of the map. The other main counter to funnel seems to be pushing lane very hard so that when the funnelers leave lane they lose farm and fall behind that way. But on TT, pushing hard in either lane means exposing yourself to ganks way too quickly. The map is once again too small for you to effectively counter gold funnel. The funnelers can leave lane, farm jungle, and then catch you out of the position the second you decide to push past middle. In SR, you have more tools to track where they are and how long it will take them to get back. In TT, it takes like 3-4 seconds to get from anywhere in the jungle to a ganking position for either lane. You can count me among the people that are interested in seeing gold funnel addressed on TT, but I also hope that Riot will do their best to preserve the meta that has developed over the years. I kinda like that they are opening SR up to some different strategies and allowing new types of champions into lanes they haven't been able to play. But as far as I'm concerned, TT is designed for short action-packed games that are defined by a brawler 1v1 in top, a mage 1v1 in bot, and two junglers who do what they can to gank and counter gank. In comparison to SR, TT provides (or provided) an opportunity for top laners to play brawlers in an environment where it didn't feel like they were in a 1v1 on a desert island. It also provided a chance for junglers to try a much more gank-centric form of participation. If a player can innovate that design by playing assassins, marksmen, or supports without drastically changing the balance or format, I have no problem with it. But games should not go from all-out-brawls to watching a gold funnel strategy slowly, painstakingly roll over you like an heavily armored battle tank. TLDR-- The counters for gold funnel that are available on SR (lane pushing, jungle stealing) are unviable on TT because of the smaller size of the map. Gold funnel seems like it is against the nature and design of TT as an action-oriented game mode with more room for brawler and jungler participation. Nerf it without killing our beloved TT. {{item:3110}} {{champion:201}}
You do realize funnel meta on twisted treeline has been meta for 5+ years right? Oh yeah thats right youve never played past gold elo and never more than say 20 games. Another voice that has no clue what hes talking about. Thanks for voicing your opinion on a map you dont even play.
Meddler (NA)
: Hey, Thanks for the well written post. We're definitely open to adding the gold funneling nerf to TT. Didn't want to do so at the last minute in 8.14 without enough consideration, and at least some TT specific bug testing though. Our standard approach is to have systemic changes like this affect all maps by default. In this case though given gold funneling's been pretty meta defining on TT for a long time we weren't confident in our understanding of whether abruptly changing that would be a good idea or not. To get a better understanding we figured we'd talk to TT players in the regions where TT gets a noticeable amount of play. That means a post this week asking for feedback that gets translated into the appropriate languages, with our regional offices then helping summarize and translate player discussion from it back again. If the result of that discussion is that it looks like we should try the funneling change on TT as well we'll then make sure it's getting at least minimum needed testing for inclusion in an upcoming patch (could well be 8.15, if that's road to go down in the first place).
Meddler, It is very clear that what you said about systemic changes affecting all maps is not true. There are various examples of this specifically within Twisted Treeline when it comes to the lack of a global sound and timer for Vilemaw killings, a lack of altar timers in the scoreboard, as well as the changes to minion health and gold amount that were implemented 10 or so patches ago (where siege minions grant 60-90 gold but casters lowered to 14ish gold). Also the tower damage to minions changes so that mages could reasonably last hit melee creeps under tower have not been implemented to 3s (melees still needed 2 or even 3 melee autos after the 2 tower shots. But that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting now because of the overwhelming voice of players who are: Not avid twisted treeline players, not good at twisted treeline, or just straight up dont play the map at all and are just jumping on the bandwagon that support meta has no counterplay. Hopefully you've seen the various posts and comments on reddit from Naerlyn as he does a very good job explaining exactly why, but the shorr version is that support comp in twisted treeline creates **VASTLY** more interaction and makes the game significantly more entertaining to play when played properly. Within the challenger community, most players see jungle meta as boring and cancerous to play. This is because the jungler has 3 camps that are close together and nothing to do for about 30 seconds or more after each clear. This means that junglers just randomly walk into lanes for no good reason simply because they hace nothing to do, or they dick around in the middle section in order to provide vision and stop the enemy jungler from ganking. This leads to people only picking champa like kayn zac and reksai that can either gank from over the wall, or get into one of the lane brushes with no way of knowing. This forces both laners to play insanely far back or get camped to all hell, without the enemy jungler even losing anything because camps arent spawning anyway. So both laners have to play under their tower all game and waveclear, or die. Sounds like fun right? Support meta allows bottom lane to be a skill lane. Better bot laner wins the lane, most often. Support meta allows the carry and support to constantly be moving around the map, optimizing routes and clear speed, and actually doing things for the entire game, whether thats clearing, shoving, or invading and fighting for pressure and altar. The people here that are calling support meta boring don't have even the slightest clue how to play it because they don't watch high elo games. They get stuck in this mindset that all they can do and all they have to do is farm. And thats not how the comp is played. If people actively cared about getting better at 3s and watching vods of high elo 3s gameplay on WillieTheWhales YT channel or the various high elo 3s streamers instead of crying about the meta they lost to 3 or 4 times or actively learned how to play against it, then they would stop complaining but they choose not to learn. Can you imagine if league didnt have a pro scene that people actively watched to get better? How much worse everyone would be at the game? Thats what it feels like from our perspective. Nobody wants to learn and adapt to the meta and would rather complain about it and other broken aspects of a mode that isnt regularly balanced without even knowing it properly. Is support meta generally stronger? Yes. Is it impossible to beat with jungle meta? Not even a little bit. My trio that is actively between ranks 6 and 15 on NA queue into the ranks 1,2, and 3 and get dumpstered when they play jungle meta into our support. They just know how to play into it and its something people just arent willing to learn. I can live with a little support meta nerf. I get it can be safer. Implement first tower gold (another systemic change yet to be implemented in this map) that can help early jungle meta snowballing, take away the insane mana regen you get from clearing a single camp (no one knows why that was implemented in tbe first place) so the clear speed is slower and you actually have to conserve mana, buff monster camps and make them tankier. All these things can slow down jungle meta and put it closer to an even spot with support meta. Lowering rhe gold you get from killing creeps with a jungle item though? Thats just dumb. Jungle meta is a totally viable meta currently and theres no reason to dumpster support meta. If you do manage to ignore the people that actively and competitively play this map in favor of the various people playing roaming nami support with no one farming jungle (I've seen some shit) by all means. I know I and many others wont even be able to take the map seriously anymore since I'll be forced to play against reksais jarvans and kayns for the rest of my life and never be able to leave tower range.
ItsLowbo (NA)
: Changes to Sightstone/Support Items coming to PBE
What does this mean for Twisted Treeline? There being no wards and all.
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5yv0tj2J,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-11-15T17:32:35.417+0000) > > We're working on a balance assessment for 7.24 changes at the moment, whole bunch of details about that coming Friday. Considering former Stormraider's users and looking at their performance now is part of that. What do you consider a "Stormraider's user"? Do you include Veigar in this group? A lot of Veigar mains used Stormraider's on him.
Yeah i would really like the option to proc stormraiders through %hp dealt again whether its in place of or in addition to number of abilities hit
Tentaku (EUNE)
: I really don't want to be rude, but AP Galio's Q literally does enough damage to one shot superminions, and it doesn't even take any crazy build, just regular RoA mage - how did it even make it outside of PBE? Isn't anyone monitoring new content ATM? I get that this is the busiest time of year for you Rioters, but really, AP Galio is your biggest slip in a long, long time. I just hope you will find time for a hotfix. At __VERY__ least, minion damage needs to be capped, one shoting superminions just should not happen, much less be a standard for any champion. {{sticker:katarina-love}}
Meddler (NA)
: We'd been kicking around 25-30%, so that's a pretty good match with other feedback we've got too. E CC duration's one we're going to wait and see a bit on. It's certainly a noticeable power hit, at the same time though we need to ensure the E doesn't give a guaranteed R cast.
Yeah please dont have another instance of gragas guarunteed bodyslam ult combo lol
Meddler (NA)
: Gut reaction is Courage is out of line in terms of both shield strength and CD, possible we just adjust one though. Less sure on Fervor, does look like it's underperforming relative to Warlord's though. First step's probably to determine if it's too weak or Warlord's too strong as a result.
Possible idea you guys could play around with making the shield only stack according to how many champions are hit with the cc as opposed to just being near the champ or having the shield scale harder the more champs are nearby but being a really really small shield if its just one champ (better on melee supports but not hugely dominant top lane while still providing significant effects in big teamfights.) Similar to how irelias passive used to be where it was only 10% tenacity but one or more champs were near it shot up to 25 or 40%
Lyte (NA)
: The 2016 Ranked Season: Updates on Dynamic Ranked and your feedback
Are you guys going to consider implementing a twisted treeline solo queue or dynamic queue? I'm sure I'm now the only one that would hate to see twisted treeline fade away like dominion has over the years. More than it already has anyway. It leaves a somewhat more casual alternative to summoners rift while still keeping that competitive atmosphere.


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