: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Any word on the experimental Teemo changes?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
Good morning, Meddler. In regards to twisted treeline gold funneling (known there as support meta): last season I was Challenger in NA 3s for most of the season (Feb - Aug, and Oct). I played over 500 games of the game mode throughout last year, but hardly any before that. I am by no means anywhere close to being one of the best at 3s, and I do not play it much currently (mainly due to hating support comp), but I feel like some higher elo input might be helpful on this matter. I mainly played bot lane (which is basically mid lane in summoners rift), but I also played probably 50-80 games as the support in gold funneling strats. After you hit diamond in 3s, it's like flicking on a switch and the entire meta changes. Up until then you almost exclusively see jungle meta with picks sucks as kayn, reksai, and Zac being common choices due to their ability to affect both lanes easily from many angles. At this elo both metas are considered equally good, since players are not yet coordinated enough to make full use of support meta's advantages. After diamond, though, you almost exclusively run into support comp picks, partially because you'll see a lot of the Challenger players smurfing in this elo. Having such a hard meta shift based on elo, much more severe than any seen on summoners rift, seems pretty bad for the 3s community since the way the game is played fundamentally changes based on what your rank is, meaning players hoping to get into high elo will have to basically throw away everything they've practiced and learned up until this point. When high elo players explain 3s strategies (such as in the 3s Bible by Divine), you'll usually see them refer to 3 different possible matchups: jungle vs jungle, jungle vs support, and support vs support. Support vs support is by far the least fun of the 3 options, as due to the nature of gold funneling, one lost fight basically decides a game with little to no means of comeback, since the winning team will invade and take all jungle camps of the losing team, starving the losing side of any means of income. As someone who has played with, as, and against support comps, it feels very bad knowing that a game can be decided not only by one lost fight but also by which carry is the most efficient at farming. Support vs jungle is similarly frustrating to play, mainly from the jungle side. This matchup feels like a race against time, as many of the funnel carries played in 3s are ones that can easily 1v3 with a lead (master yi, Kayle, Darius, yasuo, etc). This matchup puts the pressure on the jungler to be extremely aggressive, as even a moderate lead (3-5k gold) against support comp is not enough to guarantee a win. You can see this in the winrates of champions on the map-- champions only played in support comps can and frequently rise to over 60% winrates overall (such as Kayle and Taric), because the very nature of their strategy means they get to circumvent the usual interaction with other players that would otherwise keep their weak early games in check. The final matchup, jungle vs jungle, is also very snowbally, but doesn't rely on a single person's performance as much as the other two matchups. A game can be won by a bot laner instead of only a jungler or hypercarry, which means bot lane can play more aggressive picks and be rewarded for gaining leads, whereas in support comp you'll frequently see players encouraged to pick passive utility champions like Morgana, Veigar, and Karma (although not exclusively). From the bot lane perspective, having a jungler on one or both teams makes the game more interesting-- bot lane in 3s is much like top lane on Summoners Rift, in that when both teams are running support comp you are frequently just left to your own devices and are rarely in any position of agency over the outcome of the game. Even if you gain a lead over the other bot laner, it doesn't matter if the enemy Yi and Taric have steamrolled your teammates. I personally would like to see the jungle item changes implemented in twisted treeline. I don't think the ones currently live on Summoners Rift will kill the strategy in any way, mainly because people are stubborn. Those who are good at support meta will continue to do it, and I think this nerf (reducing lane gold when you have the most gold and a jungle item) will merely slow down support comp instead of killing it. Unlike summoners rift funneling, most hyper carries (with the exception of a couple, like Mordekaiser) on Twisted Treeline will rush their completed tier 3 jungle item, so this nerf will only effect their income up until that point, since it only applies to tiers 1 and 2. Slowing down their first item purchase will give jungle comp teams a larger window to impact a support comp at their weakest stage, which will make support vs jungle more of a skill matchup instead of a race against the clock. It'll also have the benefit of slowing down support vs support games, which in my experience have been very volatile and quick games depending on the matchup. Support comp does NOT need to be flat out removed, as it does actually help out quite a lot with overall champion diversity when it isn't crowding out jungle meta. Right now the balance is not even though, support comp is considered so much better in high elo that you're basically guaranteed a loss in a match with 2 even teams if you play vs a support comp team. If support comp can be reigned back in a bit with a nerf like this, then you might actually see a jungler more than once every 30 games in Challenger.
Meddler (NA)
: I'm 99% certain this change is only on the SR versions of those items. Will double check to make sure that's the case though. Whether or not it's the correct change for TT wouldn't want to push it there so abruptly without a better understanding of its impact.
Please allow it to go through to Twisted Treeline, high elo on that map has been burdened with "gold funneling" for several seasons now.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Hey Meddler, thanks for sharing your thoughts on gold funneling. If you guys decide to tackle it with a systemic approach (i.e., nerfing lane gold while having a jungle item), could you include those changes on Twisted Treeline as well? Gold funneling has been the main meta on that map for a couple years now, and it's pretty significantly warped the playing field in high elo, to the point where a lot of high elo players consider picking regular jungle to almost be trolling.
Meddler (NA)
: It will, though that probably won't be in for initial PBE. We've also got some ARAM specific rules for the other part of Ornn's passive (shop anywhere) coming, most likely a CD on how often it can be used there. That won't be when he first hits PBE either though, so anyone ARAMing with him might see some pretty out of line stuff.
Awesome! Thank you for the info. :)
Meddler (NA)
: At present it's: IE TF Abyssal Mask Rabadon's Black Cleaver Sunfire Redemption Locket Talking about potentially swapping one of Redemption/Locket for a different (non active in part) item though.
Will Wooglet's Witchcap have an upgrade on Twisted Treeline, since you can't buy Rabadon's there?
Simurgh (NA)
: Let's Chat about Honor
As someone who plays all 3 ranked queues, I find it rather frustrating that rankings have been consolidated to only showing your highest placement between the 3 queues in order to make room for the Honor icon. Are there any plans to re-organize the profile page, or de-emphasize Honor on the profile page? The stat is private, after all, so it seems a bit strange that it takes up so much room when viewing someone else's profile.
Fearless (NA)
: Wolf Spririts and Emergent Behavior
What if the wolf had TWO smite-able buffs? As in, when you smite it the first time, you get the first, and current, wolf spirit, and when it's smited a second time (BEFORE being cleared!), you get a wolf spirit in the enemy jungle. This solves the problem you mention of having a meaningful tradeoff, because for a jungler to get the buff, it would require them to use both of their charges on the same camp, forcing inefficient clears (since there's that 15 second cooldown between smites).
Maynosh (EUW)
: Lowering my polling rate helped, ty Leaves :D
> [{quoted}](name=Maynosh,realm=EUW,application-id=osqw6G4M,discussion-id=OYLlcHQl,comment-id=004e,timestamp=2015-02-01T02:18:01.042+0000) > > Lowering my polling rate helped, ty Leaves :D No problem! :)
: What the hell is going on with my clicks?!
I also use a gaming mouse, and I found that changing the polling rate from 1000 to 125 solved the problem, as did using a cheaper, non-gaming mouse.
: "I didn't see that VU coming." or Nobody Expects the ChampUP Inquisition!
{{champion:7}} could be so cool with a little love and care :)
Lyte (NA)
: Rewards for positive play
I wouldn't mind participating :^)


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