: Some kits that could use updates this year
Trundle's Q is what you would keep, really? That's easily the weakest skill in his kit. His kit is fine for the most part, he just needs a less situational ult, so he actually has a defensive cooldown when there's no tank on the enemy team to drain. Literally every other melee champion in the game has at least one defensive cooldown that's not reliant on the enemy team comp to use. He's a juggernaut as well, which makes it even worse.
: >In any other game a tank is a very hard to kill high armor/health entity. And I believe I found the problem. In ANY OTHER GAME, tanks would be very hard to kill, with their high armor and health, constantly being healed by two healers, using GCDs and cooldowns to half a. But not League. People are beginning to compare these tanks to MMO tanks, but MOBA tanks are a lot more different. Tanks are more supportive in their role rather than offensive, focusing on protection and disruption rather than damage. If the tank dies after being focused down by the other five enemy champions, then their job is done. If the tank protects their carries successfully throughout the teamfight, then they are doing their job. So why is it that you can't seem to accept that?
Yeah, in order for tanks to effectively mitigate damage the way they do in MMOs, their steroids would need to be a lot stronger. However, Riot seems apprehensive about adding %damage reduction to runes or tank kits.
: > [{quoted}](name=SymbolicFear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4bAYuEVO,comment-id=000400020000,timestamp=2019-10-19T05:26:18.963+0000) > > He is badly designed, he is a statstik champion, any champ thats like that IE Wukong, are horribly designed. that's every ADC in the game though and riot seems to be fine with having them around
This. I fail to understand why people call some melee champions stat-checks, while adcs get a free pass. At least a melee champion can potentially be kited. Mid-late game you either kill adcs immediately or die to them, it doesn't get more stat-checky than that. There's no playing around ranged autos unless you have some way to mitigate them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4bAYuEVO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-19T03:18:16.226+0000) > > champion is overpowered =/= champion is badly designed It can be both or just one of them. Look at Garen. He's not a badly designed champion, but they buffed him to a state where he was overpowered. Then look at champions like Yuumi, who was a recent proplay must pick or ban. She was both, and now she's just badly designed after the nerfs. Pantheon is both, but just like those that came before him, he will soon be just badly designed. They'll eventually cave and nerf him, paying attention to none of the reasons why he's so hated, then the next monstrosity they rework/release will suffer from the same issues. They're not designing champions for the playerbase anymore. They're designing champions that are going to be flashy, which isn't sustainable.
Garen's playstyle is inherently flawed, just like Darius, both are only good picks when they're overtuned. Immobile melee champions that offer nothing to a team except damage. When they can't do that damage they have nothing to fall back on to help their team win a game.
Salron88 (EUW)
: oh you mean like stereks + spirit visage? nope. still dead after he used q 2 times on me and then ulted.
Who do you play? He rarely gives me trouble no matter how he builds, though I generally play Trundle/Gragas/Sion.
: top 5 best and worst champion of 2019
Trundle has a playstyle very unlike most of the melees in the game, which is why he's not played often. Same with champs like Fiddlesticks and Singed. He also likes building a lot of tank items, which aren't very strong at the moment.
Salron88 (EUW)
: how much mr exactly? bashe veil + mercs and still 1 shot.
To counter burst you need a MR item and a health item.
Juice (EUNE)
: Champ is ridiculously easy, he deserves high win rate. That's how it goes. 53% win rate on the easiest champ in the game is completely fine. My kda and scores over 10 games indicate very little, they were all flex games and I have a ton of experience on Garen as you can see in Season 8 I had 95% win rate with Garen over 17 games and a 10 k/d/a overall.
Alright then, where's my Trundle high winrate? I hear many say he's easier than Garen to play.
: What exactly is Jax's weakness?
Same as all the other melee auto-attack champs, CC and burst. Tanks aren't too great atm however, which makes him a lot stronger than he should be.
Saezio (EUNE)
: I don't think that's the case. If you have same amount of items and both play it perfectly trundle wins the 1v1 IMO.
If Lee Sin plays perfectly he wins the game before Trundle can complete 2 items. There is no 1v1, Lee just wins with his vastly superior clear speed, ganks and ability to snowball games. That's how it's been for at least 8 years now, yet Riot still favors Lee when it comes to balancing.
KueˆT (NA)
: Hey Riot, could you make the next marksman have the capability to survive?
I'm not really seeing marksmen struggle right now. Literally everyone dies fast now, unless they have a lot of mobility.
Juice (EUNE)
: Please nerf Spear of Shojin or remove it from the game
Yeah it's a completely unnecessary item. I see no reason why we can't have better pure health options in the game when items like this exist, or even an attack speed+armor item for melee auto-attackers. The game could desperately use another Kindlegem upgrade for tanky champions, that doesn't have damage attached to it. Both AD and AP casters seem to get everything on a silver platter these days when it comes to itemization and runes. Everyone else pretty much just has to take what they can get.
Barkley (NA)
: Can we as a community band together
All I play are tanks and juggernauts and still find the lack of defensive options disturbing. Champs that typically stack health and resists don't feel very rewarding to play, which is why most people lock in squishy bullshit, then start flaming once they inevitably lose any semblance of control over the game.
Salron88 (EUW)
: Nerf one shot AP malphite.
Literally build some MR, once he blows his load he has nothing, making him an easy kill.
: How do you play Olaf
Olaf is a true stat-check champ. You either get a lead on your opponent or you're completely useless, as he's a melee champion that offers nothing to a team other than damage. However, his E allows him to build tanky and still deal decent damage, making his early-midgame potent. As long as you build him very tanky, he'll be a consistent damage threat for most of the game.
: How do you play Warwick in ARAM?
The same way you play any melee with low damage scaling and limited mobility. You build them tanky and exploit openings whenever you can. Just know you're going to be at a disadvantage in pretty much any game with one or more control/siege mages.
Keiaga (NA)
: Take this with a grain of salt. I've been playing for 5 or 6 years and snowballing has always been a thing. It's just what the flavor of the month to complain about currently is. You'll realize that people, especially on these forums will complain about anything and everything even if it's statistically the worst, weakest, most insignificant thing. Then when you ask for proof they'll give you personal experiences they had instead of citing anything with actual weight.
So are you saying League is just the same as it was 5-6 years ago and is in no need of improvement? Maybe so many people are just complaining for no reason.
NovaPh (NA)
: As someone who didn't play league until season 8, was snowballing seriously not a thing back before then? How did games end up going, because I heard the earlier seasons had their own problems that seem worse than just snowballing (assassin meta, tank meta, ardent meta, cleaver meta, ect.). I think compared to lopsided degenerate metas, snowballing and high damage isn't that much of a problem.
There used to be better defensive options in the game, which helps combat snow-balling and insta-gib playstyles. The old mastery/rune system, especially before keystones were introduced, had much better health and resistance scaling, especially for the early-mid game. Nowadays, resists practically don't scale at all and all the health options are a mere shadow of what they used to be (look at old Randuin's and Warmogs and compare them to now). All of a champ's durability has to come from their kit now, as itemization and runes no longer scale well defensively. Everyone is a lot squishier now compared to earlier seasons, which really only benefits damage stacking champions. To survive past the mid-game, all of a champ's durability basically has to come from their kit these days.
: This game isnt too snowbally, we just need more health
So are we just going to ignore all the bonuses from runes that reward takedowns? Meanwhile, the resolve tree has practically negligible scaling
: > So by this logic, does that make Trundle a "low-lethality" champion that stops plays from happening? Uh, no? I don't see how you came to that conclusion. There are other reasons than just the "Low Lethality" meta that Riot talked about, like the Aatrox and Akali example in the quote, or just the general balancing that Riot's champion framework revolves around now. There isn't just one reason for all changes.
I came to that conclusion because I can't see any other reason why they nerfed him as hard as they did. He also tends to build like tanks typically do, prioriziting health and resistances. Tahm also tends to build that way and he was gutted. The way Riot destroys any high utility champion that scales with defensive stats happens way too often for it to be a coincidence. Then they basically become unplayable for the average player.
Mihalikb (EUW)
: Bruh. Even Rito agrees that tanks are crap, and somewhat admits that it's intentional. The strongest tank in the game is Mundo, who isn't a tank technically. Tanks are in the crapper for one singular reason. Mages. Mages do too much damage, are too bursty and MR items are absolute garbage. Mages will melt a tank in fucking seconds through +200 MR because every mage is running 40+% spell pen.
Armor isn't much better honestly. At least MR has decent damage options. Armor has IBG and Deadman's and that's pretty much it.
SFHFWill (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Morbys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApIZIVkn,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-10-05T04:41:22.232+0000) > > Spoken as someone who clearly doesn't understand the champ. Her only %hp dmg was her passive, which they completely gutted. You're argument is that since there was finally a viable tank, to completely nerf them into nonexistence. Sound about right? > > This game is going downhill HARD. Where only a few champs are even viable to play competitively and the rest are sub par. Not enough bans are given to ban the broken champs, so every game is lopsided. The reporting system is a joke, IDGAF if someone cusses or is "verbally abusive". I can easily mute that person, but I can't mute a gd feeder/thrower out of the game. THAT needs to be addressed. Lets not even get started on ranked and how much of a joke it is. I swear you get grouped with complete trash or ppl a few ranks below you when you're in promos. What champs aren't viable? So far there has been more champs played in world's at this stage of the tournament than any other year. Top: {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:18}}{{champion:10}} Those are the champs are considered viable JUST for top lane. There's either OTP's getting to challenger, champs with decent winrates at all ELO's, play in pro or have good matchups. You seem to just be complaining for the sake of complaining. I'm sure there's others that people will add based on their own experience.
Who does Trundle get picked into at top in competitive? There aren't many lane matchups these days that are in his favor.
: > Like any other patch, we use the champion balance framework to determine which champs to buff and nerf for Worlds, but the types of changes we make are likely to be more focused on pro play. For example, if we have high confidence that certain champions will have a 100% presence at Worlds, we are likely to try to address this via direct nerfs or by buffing counters. Akali and Aatrox have both seen recent nerfs on account of this expectation. Another thing we generally try to avoid are extremely low-lethality metas for Worlds. A recent example of this is Tahm Kench—we expected him to have a very high pick rate and somewhat low ban rate. We think that at such a high presence, he degrades the quality of the play and viewer experience. As such, we reduced his early safety in patch 9.19. Assuming this is what you're going off of, you're completely misinterpreting the context of it. When they say low-lethality, they don't mean "people who have low kill potential", because their example is Tahm Kench, a tank whose had no issue killing folk these last few patches. They're talking about Low lethality in terms of "They actively stop plays too easily", leading to points where mistakes can't be punished. Once again, Tahm Kench is the example here, a champion whose been an issue in the past due to too easily negating plays and picks with his Devour. Worlds is a spectacle event, no one wants to spend hours watching nothing happen, and then one fight decides the game. Riot's quote isn't even saying "Low Lethality champions", it specifically says "Low Lethality Metas", meaning, games where nothing happens. Tanks are anything but low lethality, because they are active play makers, making picks and engaging fights. They are everything that Riot wants with worlds, people actively picking fights. What Riot doesn't want, are games where nothing happens, because no ones mistakes can be punished.
So by this logic, does that make Trundle a "low-lethality" champion that stops plays from happening? Is that why they refuse to touch his over-nerfed Pillar (his bread n' butter skill) making him annoyingly difficult to play outside of direct counters? Because, based on Rio's words, he was only nerfed due to pro play. Meanwhile, I see them buff champs like Lee Sin, who is a much easier pick to snowball games with due to his absurd early game damage and easy ganks. Really sucks to main a champ Riot doesn't favor for competitive play, mainly anyone that wins through methodical, strategic play rather than brute forcing plays (like most of the mobile, burst champs).
Naalith (NA)
: Oh trust me, I play tons of other games. Every few months I'll 100% a single player game like Dark Souls, Cuphead, Hollow Knight, etc. but obviously once you've done everything you have to turn to multiplayer for replayability. I play Apex, CS, R6, and other games like that occasionally but unfortunately the other MOBA games I used to play like Smite and HotS took a dive off a cliff. Ultimately I've played League since season 1 and despite the fact I play tons of other games, once those games are exhausted I come back here. The only multiplayer game that's stuck with me recently is Rocket League, which I recently hit diamond rank in a few days before I hit diamond in LoL. I'm looking at going back to Apex right now but for that game specifically you need friends whereas League you can queue solo and still have fun. That was sort of the heart of that sentiment. I know League isn't the amazing experience it once was, but games that are more fun on paper often get boring a few months down the road and single player experiences are amazing but I run through them pretty quick. When Halo Reach releases on PC it'll be an amazing time though.
Well if you still find enjoyment in LoL then more power to you. Been playing since S2 and I find it hard to keep interest in the game. I main {{champion:48}} and my favorite modes are 3v3, Dominion and Ascension, which is primarily why I don't enjoy the game anymore. It almost feels like Riot is actively trying to kill my interest in the game, even though I know they're simply keeping profit in mind.
Hwke94 (NA)
: I've had enough of conqueror, get this bs rune out of here pls
{{champion:48}} can't make good use of it. Quite often, I feel the only reason I get out-traded past early game is when the opponent has this rune.
Naalith (NA)
: World's is the worst time of year to be a League player
It really isn't. I would suggest branching out and at least trying some other games. League is pretty bottom barrel these days gameplay-wise. Nowhere near what it used to be.
Salron88 (EUW)
: does heimerdinger have any weakneses that melee champs can abuse toplane?
Sion can E his turrets and has enough wave clear to stay in lane against him, all while rushing health and MR. Supposedly Irelia is good against him, but I've personally never seen the matchup.
: Trundles skins are a joke.
I like all of his skins, I just wish he had more. It's been almost 3 years since his last one (Worldbreaker).
: hes completely bad, borderline unplayable unless champion matchup stars align.... You literally NEED a healer on your team. You NEED a pure tank on the enemy team. And you NEED there to not be a tank buster ADC on the enemy team. Without those, he isnt even viable.
He's been a good pick on 3s for years now and most tanks are pretty bad there atm. His ult still works against champs like Darius/Garen/Morde, as he gains a lot of healing from their health pools. The problem is his lack of real damage scaling (relative to other juggernauts), his overnerfed Pillar and he has trouble getting tanky AND dealing damage. Since he has no burst in his kit (and can't dip into crit/on-hit itemization without sacrificing defense) he either builds tanky and does little damage (while still getting shredded in seconds) or goes mostly damage and gets bursted down if he can't kill the target first. There's no longer any middle ground with him damage-wise and he doesn't have a cheesy damage build he can take advantage of like Shyvana's AP build. He just doesn't deal enough damage to compete and his utility doesn't start becoming useful until late game, when Pillar becomes decent around ranks 4-5 and people become durable enough for his ult and passive to actually matter. Trundle doesn't need a healer, just build some lifesteal at some point and his W will keep him alive. Health regen works as well, but he needs lifesteal in order to duel past the early game.
Akrid415 (NA)
: In no world. I seriously think Riot has lost their fuckin minds. They seem to randomly buff people without even CONSIDERING how strong they already are. Fiora WAS NOT busted but not weak. She was very playable. Why fuck with her at all? Why buff her? I just don't understand Riot's thinking anymore. I really feel like they toss names in a hat and buff whoever they pull. They NEVER nerf anyone who actually deserves nerfs (*cough* {{champion:555}}*cough*). But they sure as shit will buff {{champion:92}} for some sorry ass prestige skin or {{champion:64}} for some stupid ass worlds tournament that most people don't care about.
I'm fairly certain it has to do with how profitable the champ is. Fiora has some expensive skins, along with a lot of the popular champs you often see, that's why they get special treatment, so people buy their skins.
datfatguy (OCE)
: In what world is Fiora balanced?
In elite/upper class pro land she's considered "okay" at best. For the rest of us, she's a nightmare that keeps getting buffed every other patch. Passively snowballs and if she gets one kill you lose lane, even if she started out 0/3.
: there is plenty of customization, people choose to keep things linear by never changing their pages which was something very common in the old system too
I have tried literally everything with the new runes. I'm one of those players that spends most of their time experimenting with runes and itemization. I can say with 100% certainty that the older system not only had more options, but was exponentially more balanced (particularly before keystones were introduced). It's particularly noticeable with the older/less mobile champs (especially melees), that need a bunch of different stats in order to function. The new runes just don't offer enough, as damage and cdr are not enough to make these champs work. They're the only ones that have to make sacrifices with the newer system, while the mobile/ranged champs basically get everything handed to them, with no tradeoffs.
: Old rune/mastery system was not user-friendly and especially bad for new players. You legit needed a college degree to use it correctly. New mastery system is easier to use, very customizable, and impactful to the game. It's also more clean, smooth, and modern.
More like brainless and linear. There is no customization, just the illusion of it and itemization is pretty much in the same boat.
: Old runes & masteries.
The older system had a lot more depth and allowed you to customize your pages for specific champions, potentially making up for their weaknesses by being creative with your setup. In contrast, the new one just offers tons of damage and CDR, and the champs that can abuse keystones the best are the ones that succeed. The keystones offer way too much power and make the game more difficult to balance than it already is. This game's balance is never going to improve until the rune system is changed. Keystones in particular should just be removed, along with all those %based increases that reward you for takedowns, it's just unnecessary power. More than half the runes should not be giving straight dps increases, as those are always going to be superior to non-dps options. It is one of the laziest ways you can add power in your game.
Neriticc (EUW)
: Guess who Rito Bias Games is buffing next patch?
Where are my Pillar buffs for Trundle? I see all these champs that give him trouble constantly getting buffed while he continues to struggle. Oh that's right, Fiora has a Project skin doesn't she?
: Old Players
I miss nearly everything we had pre 2014. Dominion's gone, Twisted Treeline soon to be gone. It's seems like all Riot cares about anymore is competitive SR and making skins, but only for popular champs.
: Overloaded without mana or any type of gating mechanics. The only thing keeping players from building him bruiser and breaking the game is that they think they need to utilize his double crit passive. Yasuo with full support items can still carry a game because his kit is inherently too strong. Play support Yasuo, build him like an enchanter, max wind wall, use Redemption (even though you can't use the mana part of it), win game. Do I ban Yasuo? No, because I can counter him very easily. Do I mind when my teammates ban him? Not at all, I'd rather have them get to practice their new champion than to face a yasuo with 6m mastery points because he's a "main". My ban order is: {{champion:555}} - Because he takes no skill and can 1v5 with safe escapes. {{champion:82}} - Because he removes counterplay with the tap of a button, on far too strong of a kit alongside it. {{champion:25}} - Because she's low risk high reward, and her E negates most of our support's offensive capabilities. Pyke will NEVER see a game, ally or enemy, if I'm paying attention or not trying to ban snipe someone from a previous lobby.
Of course a support main finds Yasuo easy to deal with. I do agree with Morde and Pyke being worse to deal with when played well.
: Why does Yasuo still have a 51% ban rate?
He's useless on your team, yet a practically untouchable hypercarry on the enemy team, just like Riven and Irelia. He's too popular/profitable for Riot to do anything serious about him, even if he warps the game just by existing.
: New player's most asked questio: Kai'sa is a Assasin or Adc???
Quinn used to be an assassin, but Riot gutted her burst, basically turning her into a lackluster adc.
: We should need to sacrifice something to build something else
Ironically, tanks still have to make sacrifices for cdr, same with older melees like Trundle, Mundo, Volibear and Shyvana. It's the newer and reworked champ designs that only need a main damage stat + cdr to function.
Xavanic (NA)
: there is a reason for this, it's to prevent shit like tank ekko, tank zed, tank rengar, tank akali, etc. most tanks have ways to further increase the value of tank items, such has malphite literally doubling his armor, rammus W, Ornn passive, if tank items ever become efficient we enter a tank only meta
So basically, an entire class of champions is being held hostage, they can't be allowed to have good itemization/scaling, because of a few champions with extremely problematic and (nearly) impossible to balance kits? Classic balancing. Assassins are basically the reason that we can't have nice things. What's Riot gonna do about it? Make more skins for these champions obviously, before lowering their numbers/cooldowns a bit, ultimately fixing nothing.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Building tank items is like throwing gold away.
Pretty much, you sacrifice building damage to live like 1-2 seconds longer at most. Not worth it unless you can 100% count on your teammates to properly do damage in your stead. Stacking pure health/resistance items doesn't even feel good on tanks, since they all melt late game anyway. I think tanks need better sustain options for surviving past early-mid game. Either that or %damage reduction needs to be brought back from much earlier seasons. Tanks easily feel the worst to play out of all the classes in the game because of their lack of scaling, which is really bad when you consider tanks are generally the least played class in every online game ever. Hardly anyone plays tanks because they want to play them, and now they are barely rewarded for doing so.
: In that case, it depends on the matchup and player skill.
No he's just overturned currently. He spikes far too early for how well he scales.
: Jax isn't overtuned, Spear of shojin is the problem.
Nonsense. I see Jax often passively snowball (and even get fed) while sitting on Phage and Sheen, sometimes even with just Cinderhulk. He's strong early game and starts hitting critical mass after he completes one item.
: As a Jungler what do you expect from laners?
To not feed 2-3 kills in the first 5 minutes.
: The champ that is the bane of your existence?
{{champion:67}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:43}} When played well, I can't do anything against them as Trundle. I just throw some pillars out and hope for the best.
KazKaz (OCE)
: Why is Riven getting her E nerf reverted?
{{champion:48}} Can he get his Pillar nerfs reverted please? If Riven gets to do whatever she wants I see no reason why this can't be done. She is exponentially more popular and is far less niche of a pick. He also hasn't gotten a skin in almost three years, but that's another story.
Comentários de Rioters
: What do you hate and love about League of Legends?
I enjoy {{champion:48}} {{champion:14}} I like jungling. Dislike the favoritism when it comes to balancing, defensive scaling being awful, lack of alternate game mode variety, game modes that have been around for years being removed, the new rune system, the champs I like never get skins, and lastly I preferred the forums over the reddit-style boards.
: Thoughts On Ballancing and why im probalby going to quit leauge soon
As a Trundle OTP I feel you. Both immobile melees and tanks get the short end of the stick these days. Since resistances have no real scaling anymore, every fight basically becomes a dps check, which gets old fast.
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