: Garen is the only one of the Juggernaut update to have his "Steroid" removed
: Now that the Garen mini-rework is off the PBE, what are player's opinions?
: Why is Nashor's Tooth still an item
Lost R (NA)
: And you needed to be on company-owned servers of Final Fantasy XI, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, and basically any other MMO that are various states of dead in order to play them. City of Heroes is the most notable one because it actually was dead for a time; then someone came along and revived it with their own private servers, and I know my brother has played on private servers of World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XI. The same thing would inevitably happen with League if and when it goes. Nothing stays dead forever these days.
> [{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QmAeuRbT,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-05T01:20:00.592+0000) > > And you needed to be on company-owned servers of Final Fantasy XI, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, and basically any other MMO that are various states of dead in order to play them. City of Heroes is the most notable one because it actually was dead for a time; then someone came along and revived it with their own private servers, and I know my brother has played on private servers of World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XI. > > The same thing would inevitably happen with League if and when it goes. Nothing stays dead forever these days. I don't disagree with your post, and neither, I think, does KFC. I'm not even arguing semantics with you; I don't think that the point of your post was the LoL is a sport. (This is just a tangential point.) LoL certainly has elements of strategy on a par with many sports. And your post concerned that strategy, using sports as an analogy or a useful comparison.
AhmCha (NA)
: Throughout all of the things you've cut out of the game in favor of bullshit no one asked for...
Terozu (NA)
: LoL is officially recognized as a sport around the world.
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QmAeuRbT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-04T17:51:48.919+0000) > > LoL is officially recognized as a sport around the world. How's that College MOBA scholarship coming along?
Terozu (NA)
: No, you you didn't give any reasons. You just said that people who use the secondary definitions of words are wrong, even though they're proper definitions. That isn't a reason. That's just you hating on language evolution, lol.
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QmAeuRbT,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-04T22:30:14.914+0000) > > No, you you didn't give any reasons. You just said that people who use the secondary definitions of words are wrong, even though they're proper definitions. > > That isn't a reason. That's just you hating on language evolution, lol. He did give one reason. There are several. SportAccord uses the following criteria, determining that a sport should: 1) have an element of competition 2) be in no way harmful to any living creature 3) not rely on equipment provided by a single supplier (excluding proprietary games such as arena football) 4) not rely on any "luck" element specifically designed into the sport. 1) I'll grant. 2) A more cruel form of torture has never been devised by man. 3) This was KFC cited objection. If the American League closed up shop tomorrow, then kids would still play baseball in the street. If Riot close, then nobody would ever play LoL again. Not only do you have to play with their client, but you must play on their servers... there is no "home game", private version to play with friends etc... tournaments must take place on Riot servers... 4) This is a bit iffy, because there actually is a lot of random stuff that can benefit one team more than another. The spirit is that it's not reliant on luck, but there is considerable interference from random elements that doesn't exist in recognized sports. This is one of the broadest sets of criteria for "sport". Most others limit sport to physical activity with few exceptions (chess being a notable one). Even Riot, which normally takes great liberties with English, is still careful to designate LoL as "eSports". It's a video game with many of the trappings of professional sports. It's an electronic parody of professional sports. There's a lot of other things that fly in LoL, that would never be permitted in any sport that I am aware. In team sports, if one team is a man down, then play ends. It's usually a default loss, or else the game is interrupted until a replacement, but they don't go ahead with the match with uneven teams. The rules of baseball have remained unchanged for... practically forever. (And chess, even longer.) The game remains interesting and fresh because it is a game of human competition. LoL has rules that change LITERALLY every two weeks. I would consider stability to be part of the legitimacy of any recognized sport. Sports generally try to AVOID change as much as possible and achieve as much standardization as reasonable, even across different League, venues, countries, etc... Riot makes changes just for the sake of making changes, and would consider something was wrong if the game went unchanged and actually did become a straight measure of player ability. The goal of a sports commission is to achieve ultimate balance in a sport so that no further changes would ever be necessary. Riot intentionally introduces small imbalances hoping that it will take a while before players catch on.
: Why the FUCK can I not get one S rank
Look at it the other way. Riot grading is flawed and frequently conflicts with good play in real situations. Don't stress about it. op.gg also grades for games. Their system seems to be a bit more in-tune with what wins games.
: Garen Riot is out of their minds
: Riot what did u do to Garen on PBE?
: Convince me thwt garen changes are a buff and not just power shift/nerf
: Why does Garen lose to almost every toplaner 1v1? I refuse to believe he is a jaggernaut
> [{quoted}](name=DEMACIAA BABY,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0gzGuAEm,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-04T10:47:19.068+0000) > > It's stupid , not only he is mega kiteable but u also lose against all bruiser and Jaggernauts and some mages like Vladimir 1v1, even if u hit magically all abilities. U also lose against tanks which is why quite irritating. Shen should not be able to beat Garen 1v1 > > > Aren't Jaggernauts supposed to be good at 1v1? Isn't that their trademark? You're right on one point, at least. At the moment, Garen Mid is a lot better than Garen Top.
: Why does Garen lose to almost every toplaner 1v1? I refuse to believe he is a jaggernaut
Moody P (NA)
: garen isnt changing enough
Moody P (NA)
: garen isnt changing enough
If it's agreed that the rework is a big step backwards, then why is it going through? Is there any way to stop this thing?
: > [{quoted}](name=Lrrr Omicronian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EF4Iifc,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-09-04T03:22:09.764+0000) > > I agree. They should leave him alone until they actually have a plan. No, I mean just leave him alone. Period.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EF4Iifc,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-09-04T15:55:46.313+0000) > > No, I mean just leave him alone. Period. Sounds good.
: Convince me thwt garen changes are a buff and not just power shift/nerf
Incidentally, on-hit wasn't removed because it was broken. They could just have scaled it down, if that were the case. The problem was that it was actually very easy for certain champions to counter and Garen was literally killing himself by using on-hit vs some of the anti on-hit mechanics that are built into this game.They would have needed to write an exception for Garen E on each one of those mechanics, and determined that... this was a sign that maybe it wasn't where they should be looking.
: Convince me thwt garen changes are a buff and not just power shift/nerf
The rework was SUPPOSED to be net neutral. Garen was buffed just a couple of months ago. He's pretty strong right now, for him. However, the Garen currently on PBE represents a net nerf of Garen live.
Moody P (NA)
: Garen doesn't scale for shit and early game buffs are almost always far more impactful than late game nerfs. The only time it doesn't is when it's a full on scaling meta i.e. season 7 Ardent. There's a reason that Kayle losing a huge amount of her late game power in exchange for a better early game is still regarded as a huge buff to the champion. >They are removing power He's losing 20 resists from W and a little bit of ultimate damage. His spin does more damage at every stage of the game while also having easier access to its damage steroid in lane phase and teamfights and his ultimate has the same Villain-tier threat versus everyone rather than only one person, meaning he doesnt Have to hope the person he wants to focus has been the last person to get a kill before he fights them. His passive actually exists in the early game and has a more linear scaling throughout in exchange for a weaker late game. And his Q hits faster meaning that he can actually interrupt combos reliably and get his own damage off faster. Again. Early game buffs are one of the biggest things a champion can get. Garen is much better off being able to establish his lead sooner rather than hoping he isn't too far behind so he can scale back before falling off again when ADCs come online. It's a buff.
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EF4Iifc,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-04T03:46:14.005+0000) > > Garen doesn't scale for shit and early game buffs are almost always far more impactful than late game nerfs. The only time it doesn't is when it's a full on scaling meta i.e. season 7 Ardent. There's a reason that Kayle losing a huge amount of her late game power in exchange for a better early game is still regarded as a huge buff to the champion. > > He's losing 20 resists from W and a little bit of ultimate damage. His spin does more damage at every stage of the game while also having easier access to its damage steroid in lane phase and teamfights and his ultimate has the same Villain-tier threat versus everyone rather than only one person, meaning he doesnt Have to hope the person he wants to focus has been the last person to get a kill before he fights them. His passive actually exists in the early game and has a more linear scaling throughout in exchange for a weaker late game. And his Q hits faster meaning that he can actually interrupt combos reliably and get his own damage off faster. > > Again. Early game buffs are one of the biggest things a champion can get. Garen is much better off being able to establish his lead sooner rather than hoping he isn't too far behind so he can scale back before falling off again when ADCs come online. > > It's a buff. Garen actually scales fairly well. His strong game is 11-16. He would fall off a little after 16m, but Villain Mechanic keeps him relevant. It's practically useless in early game since it's so weak, and besides Garen laner won't be the Villain. But by lvl 16 it's very strong. Don't you remember how Kayle was just a few weeks ago? useless until late/mid game and then unstoppable? Veigar, Nasus... scaling is much more consistent temperament than early game lane bully, under pressure to end the game quickly or else be useless. Garen doesn't scale as well as some, but he scales better than must juggs in his class, certainly better than Darius or Renekton. A Darius who has a bad early game is useless; a Garen who had a bad early game is still a threat. W is being gutted and I don't mean the 20 resists, or even the slower scaling. I mean that the CD is being nerfed. The real question is, why are they changing it at all? They haven't GIVEN Garen anything. Certainly nothing that exceeds loss of Villain Mechanic. Early game buffs don't matter to Garen. His basic design is that he doesn't scale much with anything that he can buy with gold. He does nearly as much damage building tank. Look at his recommended item tab. DMP is an offensive item on Garen. Villain Mechanic is extremely powerful. Of course it would have to have some weakness. The weakness is - yeah - it's a little wonky. The target won't aways be ideal. But it's arranged so that there's a pretty good chance that the stigma is on the right guy. In any game, Garen will have several chances to have an advantage to shut down a relevant enemy. The nature of Garen ult is that KS is unlikely. It's an elegant mechanic that balances itself. Since it was introduced in 5.17, it's been considered perfectly balanced and Garen R has never been touched to be nerfed or buffed. Garen's general scaling nature is also part of his station as a learning champion, teaching patience and observation. There's 150 champions in this game. If you WANT to stomp early, then play one of the many champions that does that. Garen doesn't, he hasn't for years. And these changes aren't going to turn him into an early game champion either. Laning will be a little more endurable. In exchange he loses one of the most powerful equalizers in the game. I'd much rather be King of the End Game, than "early game lane bully". (Who wouldn't?)
: It only has a 2.5% play rate - and that's in NA, the region where it's played the most.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MQriNVEw,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-09-03T17:23:31.321+0000) > > It only has a 2.5% play rate - and that's in NA, the region where it's played the most. That's A LOT OF PEOPLE. More than many other games with their own dedicated servers.
Moody P (NA)
: It's a net buff for anyone paying attention; his early game is better at pretty much every point damage-wise (and early game is the most important phase you want to be strong at) while also being much better at mattering from behind. but that doesn't change that he still has the longstanding Garen problem of having unconditional numbers and being hard to justify if they aren't good enough
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EF4Iifc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-03T22:26:45.809+0000) > > It's a net buff for anyone paying attention; his early game is better at pretty much every point damage-wise (and early game is the most important phase you want to be strong at) while also being much better at mattering from behind. > > but that doesn't change that he still has the longstanding Garen problem of having unconditional numbers and being hard to justify if they aren't good enough It's a net nerf. Garen is a scaling champion. Meanwhile, nobody is getting fed off of Garen in the early game. They are removing a lot of Garen's power, and replacing it with some early game convenience, but this is a fool's trade. And it doesn't change that Garen has less power, as a result. "net" mean... overall.. after all the numbers are added, plus and minus. There *may* be some good QOL changes here, but Garen power is diminished.
: Well, not saying that garen is GOOD, but there ARE some reasons to take him over darius. 1. Faster. This one's simply. He can more easily get into range of opponents who are out of range. darius's pull is great and all, but with flash, ghost, some speedy item, the help of a teammate, or an opponent's horrible mistake, he can't really force anyone into combat range. There are actually tons of situations where darius can't retaliate against a kiter or chase down to finish off a low hp opponent simply because of zero innate mobility. So basically garen can chase better, escape better, and dodge enemy abilities better 2. Tankier. While juggernauts are considered separate from tanks because the generally have less mobility, less cc, and less actual tankiness in trade-offs for more damage and more sustain, garen in some ways because he is actually as tanky as most super tanks because of scaling W, and the damage reduction. Not only this, but he has some solid anti kite steroids from natural tenacity and a slow debuff remover. 3. Due to points 1 and 2, garen can generally build a little bit more offensively than juggers like darius (though juggers like illaoi and aatrox are almost purely HP and AD) and he is a better split pusher because he can push waves, damage towers, and retreat more easily. And if he gets caught, he has a better chance of escape when outmatched, and therefore can heal due to passive and remain a consistent and annoying split push threat. 4. Garen is better at nuking a single high priority target, especially if they have some damage already. 5. More reliable sustain. Sure it kinda sucks and is worthless during combat, but it's incredibly RELIABLE and makes it super hard to bully garen out of lane if you either can't 100-0 him quickly or keep him in a fight long enough. He can win the war of attrition better than a mana champ like darius who, if he misses Q's or can't get in range, has zero sustain. But like I said, I'm not making a case that Garen is strong or weak, or better or worse than darius, but that there are actual reasons to pick him. Darius is of course better at: in fight sustain, AOE damage, teamfight damage, and has better all around CC. Darius also has some better dueling capabilities overall, but not against all matchups (for instance, a fully scaled mundo is very difficult for darius, but garen has a better shot due to % hp scaling ult. However, he lacks innate defense outside of some beefy base stats (although even irelia gains more hp than him now), is far more easily kited, and if he gets caught by a stray CC is far less likely to contribute significantly and far more likely to blow up in one or two seconds.
> [{quoted}](name=ImTheJuggernauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EF4Iifc,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T19:36:42.802+0000) > > Well, not saying that garen is GOOD, but there ARE some reasons to take him over darius. > > 1. Faster. This one's simply. He can more easily get into range of opponents who are out of range. darius's pull is great and all, but with flash, ghost, some speedy item, the help of a teammate, or an opponent's horrible mistake, he can't really force anyone into combat range. There are actually tons of situations where darius can't retaliate against a kiter or chase down to finish off a low hp opponent simply because of zero innate mobility. So basically garen can chase better, escape better, and dodge enemy abilities better > > 2. Tankier. While juggernauts are considered separate from tanks because the generally have less mobility, less cc, and less actual tankiness in trade-offs for more damage and more sustain, garen in some ways because he is actually as tanky as most super tanks because of scaling W, and the damage reduction. Not only this, but he has some solid anti kite steroids from natural tenacity and a slow debuff remover. > > 3. Due to points 1 and 2, garen can generally build a little bit more offensively than juggers like darius (though juggers like illaoi and aatrox are almost purely HP and AD) and he is a better split pusher because he can push waves, damage towers, and retreat more easily. And if he gets caught, he has a better chance of escape when outmatched, and therefore can heal due to passive and remain a consistent and annoying split push threat. > > 4. Garen is better at nuking a single high priority target, especially if they have some damage already. > > 5. More reliable sustain. Sure it kinda sucks and is worthless during combat, but it's incredibly RELIABLE and makes it super hard to bully garen out of lane if you either can't 100-0 him quickly or keep him in a fight long enough. He can win the war of attrition better than a mana champ like darius who, if he misses Q's or can't get in range, has zero sustain. > > But like I said, I'm not making a case that Garen is strong or weak, or better or worse than darius, but that there are actual reasons to pick him. Darius is of course better at: in fight sustain, AOE damage, teamfight damage, and has better all around CC. Darius also has some better dueling capabilities overall, but not against all matchups (for instance, a fully scaled mundo is very difficult for darius, but garen has a better shot due to % hp scaling ult. > > However, he lacks innate defense outside of some beefy base stats (although even irelia gains more hp than him now), is far more easily kited, and if he gets caught by a stray CC is far less likely to contribute significantly and far more likely to blow up in one or two seconds. Garen scales a lot better than Darius. Darius with a bad early game isn't very useful in late game. Garen with a weak early game (which is normal for Garen) will still chunk the Villain for the same amount of health regardless.
: If they made large scale changes to Garen, it'd end up like Aatrox. I say leave him to be what he is. If he's a balance mess or if people think he sucks, leave him that way.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EF4Iifc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-03T17:20:29.643+0000) > > If they made large scale changes to Garen, it'd end up like Aatrox. > > I say leave him to be what he is. If he's a balance mess or if people think he sucks, leave him that way. I agree. They should leave him alone until they actually have a plan. Meanwhile the Season is nearly over and Garen responds more to his environment than to buffs or nerfs. Let them wait two more months, and maybe we'll figure it out by then. On-hit wasn't the answer. He's in a relatively good spot FOR GAREN at the moment. How to re-work Garen is always a hot topic among Garen mains, but what I heard mostly for the last few months was that Garen actually felt relatively good to play, and people were exploring what could be done with the interesting buff that Garen received two months ago. NOW isn't the right time to tinker with Garen. Other champions need the attention a lot more. We experimented with one idea on PBE that asserted itself as unworkable in short order. Let's re-visit in Season 10.
: but those are conditional. you have to buy and consume the potion and then be in a situation that steraks passive is triggered . the most static tenacity you can have is 51%
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUEGztef,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T22:33:12.984+0000) > > but those are conditional. > > you have to buy and consume the potion and then be in a situation that steraks passive is triggered . > > the most static tenacity you can have is 51% I wouldn't consider Iron conditional. It's consistent... for 3 minutes. Unflinching is more conditional, but you do have control over it. Cleanse isn't conditional either, for that matter. I don't need to have Tenacity all game long for it to be useful. Just when hit with CC. Steraks is conditional and kind of wonky to proc. It's designed so that you probably will have it when you need it most. Perhaps BECAUSE it's out of the user's control, it stacks additively with mercs. I'm not comfortable including it in a practical Tenacity stat calculation. Besides, not every champion can build Steraks, and even among all melee champions it's an item that many won't consider. Anybody can buy mercs. Anybody can chug Iron. Anybody can blow their summs.
Bugog (NA)
: Come predict which champions will be gutted after worlds
They already have Garen prepared to be gutted in advance. He wasn't strong to begin with. He gets a safe, intelligent buff two months ago, and I don't know why he's getting this attention now... Confused Garen Main
: Would contracdict the spatula as the only class changing item. (But dont even ask me why Negatron+Spatula equals freaking Hurricane instead of Dragon!)
> [{quoted}](name=Titanium70,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=tUW4ZE0z,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-02T15:09:47.108+0000) > > Would contracdict the spatula as the only class changing item. > > (But dont even ask me why Negatron+Spatula equals freaking Hurricane instead of Dragon!) In the original version... PBE, I think that Negatron + Spatula made Brawler's Gloves. I suspect that making it easier to get the HP buff was OP.
Solys (NA)
: Some weekly missions are inappropriate.
Am I the only one who saw the title of the thread and went somewhere totally different in my mind? ...
Fluffyr (NA)
: No skin sales?
I thought that they had announced a restructuring of skin sales program, however it seems that I misunderstood, or else that they reconsidered. Skin sales are up in the store today.
Moody P (NA)
: cool. im diamond 2
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhljgHhx,comment-id=00020003000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-02T22:00:46.614+0000) > > cool. im diamond 2 It would be unusual for a high MMR player to support changes that *might* benefit Garen in low MMR (but will absolutely weaken him for high MMR). Without mobility or CC, the only thing that lets Garen stay playable in high MMR is that he can consistently score on a relevant target in lategame. Proposed Garen will not be able to do that. The first thing that riste said EVEN when he supported the changes, was that Garen will now fall off in late game, much like other Juggs such as Darius and Renekton. (And other than the Conqueror addition, I understand that riste is no longer happy with the rework.)
: It is a little disappointing, I don't play top often and when I get filled as it I usually play Garen, and do quite well. His weakness is kiting and his strength is tankiness and ease-to-play. But scaling with Attack Speed on his E makes no sense, in how the ability looks, feels, his champion lore, and his bruiser status. He was fine where he was, an easy champion that already received a rework... I'm surprised they spent even a second of time on it instead of the fiddle/voli reworks, or various other reworks needed. The people who liked Garen liked him as is, those people won't play him and I doubt any newcomers will either - why build a slow, attack speed reliant champion when Udyr and Master Yi accomplish the same yet a thousand times better. Not to mention remove on-hits just about killed him. You gutted a fair-and-balanced champion, tore open his tanky elements, and gave him scaling that make no sense for a champion of his nature. Which, in all honesty I do not believe needed any changes at all. His winrate is fine, his player base is fine, and he is (Was) a great champion for newbies to top lane. Oh well, all in the name of keeping the game with a rework every month "fresh" since it wasn't already.
> [{quoted}](name=Kiwi Lemonade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhljgHhx,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-09-02T13:00:32.807+0000) > > It is a little disappointing, I don't play top often and when I get filled as it I usually play Garen, and do quite well. His weakness is kiting and his strength is tankiness and ease-to-play. But scaling with Attack Speed on his E makes no sense, in how the ability looks, feels, his champion lore, and his bruiser status. He was fine where he was, an easy champion that already received a rework... I'm surprised they spent even a second of time on it instead of the fiddle/voli reworks, or various other reworks needed. > > The people who liked Garen liked him as is, those people won't play him and I doubt any newcomers will either - why build a slow, attack speed reliant champion when Udyr and Master Yi accomplish the same yet a thousand times better. Not to mention remove on-hits just about killed him. > > You gutted a fair-and-balanced champion, tore open his tanky elements, and gave him scaling that make no sense for a champion of his nature. Which, in all honesty I do not believe needed any changes at all. His winrate is fine, his player base is fine, and he is (Was) a great champion for newbies to top lane. Oh well, all in the name of keeping the game with a rework every month "fresh" since it wasn't already. So much this.
KayZet (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mcsquzzy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhljgHhx,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-09-02T04:58:58.279+0000) > > Someone pointed out and did the math on another post, the result of his e changes, if AS per level applies is that new e is stronger since it stars at 8 and moves to 10 at max level with no attack speed built. So it's literally the same with another build option to his kit. Honestly if anyone applies some brainpower to this they'll realize that levels ~4 to 9 PBE Garen is much stronger than the current one without any Attack Speed, especially if he fights in minions since the PBE version still gets bonus damage without having to isolate someone. His passive is also stronger at every point in the game except for levels 11 to 13, maybe also 14, depending on how much you actually ended up using the empowered heal. People also constantly overestimate his villain damage. Level 16 Garen gets 11% max HP true damage with Q and a full E. For comparison that's a single Fiora vital hit when she has 200 bonus AD, which is a bit more than 2 items for her. It seems like much more because Garen ult would kill villains when they are still above half HP. The ult on the PBE generally kills at around half HP and you're no longer useless if a low priority target happens to be the villain and you're not fed, because you can frontline and have a strong finisher against a tank. The best thing about the rework is that Garen only loses a combined 40 late game resistances for a pretty good midgame, laning, E damage, multi-target damage, better than ever synergy with Trinity Force and access to conqueror, which will generally up the lategame power of any champion who can proc it quickly. 20 Armor and another 20 MR... Honestly if you have played a laning phase with PBE Garen you will not care at all.
> [{quoted}](name=KayZet,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhljgHhx,comment-id=000c0001,timestamp=2019-09-02T12:53:46.849+0000) > > Honestly if anyone applies some brainpower to this they'll realize that levels ~4 to 9 PBE Garen is much stronger than the current one without any Attack Speed, especially if he fights in minions since the PBE version still gets bonus damage without having to isolate someone. His passive is also stronger at every point in the game except for levels 11 to 13, maybe also 14, depending on how much you actually ended up using the empowered heal. > > People also constantly overestimate his villain damage. Level 16 Garen gets 11% max HP true damage with Q and a full E. For comparison that's a single Fiora vital hit when she has 200 bonus AD, which is a bit more than 2 items for her. It seems like much more because Garen ult would kill villains when they are still above half HP. The ult on the PBE generally kills at around half HP and you're no longer useless if a low priority target happens to be the villain and you're not fed, because you can frontline and have a strong finisher against a tank. > You're ignoring the Villain passive damage, which is considerable. > The best thing about the rework is that Garen only loses a combined 40 late game resistances for a pretty good midgame, laning, E damage, multi-target damage, better than ever synergy with Trinity Force and access to conqueror, which will generally up the lategame power of any champion who can proc it quickly. 20 Armor and another 20 MR... Honestly if you have played a laning phase with PBE Garen you will not care at all. It's not so much the missing resistances, or even the slower stacking. The most hurtful part of the nerf is the increased CD on the ability. And there is nothing that they did to his kit, that makes the nerf necessary in the first place. Giving an AS scaling on E does not = pushing W back to 2 years ago. The change to the Villain mechanic on R active could be seen as net neutral. With the removal of the passive damage, it's a nerf. That could be ok - people have a lot of gripes with Villain Mechanic. But they have to put that power back somewhere, and they haven't.
: > [{quoted}](name=Judah Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhljgHhx,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-01T15:43:54.096+0000) > > And if they REALLY wanted to give Garen better scaling on E, then let it scale with AD - A stat that Garen actually wants to build, but often foregoes for HP (which he scales better with, currently). (I don't mean just nudge the AD scaling on E a percent or two, although that would be fine. They're giving E more spins with AS. So, instead, give it more spins with bonus AD. That would be so much better.) This was my exact suggestion to Riste.
> [{quoted}](name=InƒectedMushroom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JhljgHhx,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-09-02T00:36:08.767+0000) > > This was my exact suggestion to Riste. riste doesn't actually do Riot's champion development, though... This is already gone to design phase. What we have on PBE is essentially what they are planning to put live in a month.
: PROJECT 2019 SHOP: 1000 BE @ 100 TOKENS
It might take 4 days to work out those calculations....
Comentários de Rioters
: Trying to eat >100g of protein a day is difficult.
If you check this... (it's a perennial problem) 1 can of Pink Salmon (Wild Alaskan 14.75oz ~$2.99) has over 90g protein and ~560 calories. (This is better than many protein shakes.) It's 0 carbohydrates, and the fat is ~ %30 Long-Chain PUFA Omega-3. The amino acid profile compares favourably, as well (>%1 Tryptophan, ~%18 BCAA). Vitamin D, B2, B3, B6, B12, Calcium, Phosphorus, Selenium in "high-potency" amounts. Other bioactives (phosphatidylserine, choline, etc). Undetectable amounts of mercury. Probably high-quality Whey protein is still better, but this is a nice option.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lrrr Omicronian,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=XFnlPQeV,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T18:55:16.953+0000) > > This is probably considered "skill" as far as a game like this is concerned. Quickly spotting opportunities. (I know, that I've gotten a lot better at it...) having a bad UI isn't exactly enticing way to produce skill and in the other games champs that you own are highlighted in the shop its actually just a net positive no matter how you look at it.
> [{quoted}](name=Panthaz89,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=XFnlPQeV,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T20:04:09.489+0000) > > having a bad UI isn't exactly enticing way to produce skill and in the other games champs that you own are highlighted in the shop its actually just a net positive no matter how you look at it. You may be right, but until they change it, it is. A feature of many games is pattern recognition speed. At the moment, it's probably a big factor in gameplay. There's a lot of little things that would make this game more clear, that haven't been implemented and some of them are so obvious that I'm starting to think that it's intentional. We don't have a TAB overview, which is a fairly obvious feature that has been requested repeatedly. At the moment, keeping track of this information is player responsibility and therefore a kind of skill. If they haven't fixed it yet, then this may be intentional.
: I just don't understand the point...
They take the place of, they are actually, skins, as far as TFT is concerned. That's fine. They would be just as desirable, whether to be purchased or played for, if the game didn't require them to scramble onto the board to collect chests. They didn't do this for the first patch or two. We play TFT when we DON'T want to manipulate characters on a screen. The draft... I kind of get. It's part of the design. But having to collect the chests manually is pointless. It does nothing to sell these avatars.
ShadWooo (EUNE)
: I saw no point in the pirate buff chest as well, but it seems majority players likes to move their stupid avatar to collect stuff. It is fun.
> [{quoted}](name=ShadWooo,realm=EUNE,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=htF2kMoO,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-20T19:45:09.048+0000) > > I saw no point in the pirate buff chest as well, but it seems majority players likes to move their stupid avatar to collect stuff. It is fun. No. Nobody wants to do this.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lrrr Omicronian,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=XFnlPQeV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-20T19:42:41.176+0000) > > That 3rd point is actually the most important. > > Why do you need an indicator to know which champs you are playing? to quickly scan on rerolls when you already have your team set....helps tremedously in the other auto chess games. Makes sure you don't quickly scan and reroll and miss someone you need when you have 30 seconds to reroll 25x.
> [{quoted}](name=Panthaz89,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=XFnlPQeV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-20T19:54:32.480+0000) > > to quickly scan on rerolls when you already have your team set....helps tremedously in the other auto chess games. Makes sure you don't quickly scan and reroll and miss someone you need when you have 30 seconds to reroll 25x. This is probably considered "skill" as far as a game like this is concerned. Quickly spotting opportunities. (I know, that I've gotten a lot better at it...)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lrrr Omicronian,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=XFnlPQeV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-20T19:42:41.176+0000) > > That 3rd point is actually the most important. > > Why do you need an indicator to know which champs you are playing? Pretty much what Panthaz89 said. In a game where quickness and fast decision making can make or break you it would be nice to point out something you might be looking for. I was excited when league announced they were going to make a version of autochess and coming from the dota 2 mod its one of the things I miss most. I've skipped over champs several times due to a lack of this feature. And its not like it would be game breaking or harm any aspect of the game, so why not?
> [{quoted}](name=SirLanc3lot,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=XFnlPQeV,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-07-21T00:32:00.270+0000) > > Pretty much what Panthaz89 said. In a game where quickness and fast decision making can make or break you it would be nice to point out something you might be looking for. I was excited when league announced they were going to make a version of autochess and coming from the dota 2 mod its one of the things I miss most. I've skipped over champs several times due to a lack of this feature. And its not like it would be game breaking or harm any aspect of the game, so why not? Well this patch took the names of the players off of the minimap; I don't think that they want to make this game easier...
: One team winning over the other in a 5v5 is not the same as having 2 teams of 4 people in a 1v7. How the hell would you watch an event like that? Do like 5 different rounds of randomness where all the members of each team are in varying places simply because of their luck? obviously they would be able to talk to their team, what happens when you get pitted against the same team member several times in a row and you both stack warmongers to drive the time down and only take 2 hp each, each round. That would be luck. There's not a damn thing about TFT that can be made truly competitive. RNJeezus is on your side or he isn't.
> [{quoted}](name=ThatKillsPplCarl,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=vMExxA8x,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T16:13:12.032+0000) > How the hell would you watch an event like that? You really think that people would find this interesting to watch in any case?
Subdue (NA)
: How dare they try to make money off a game they built and support. For shame!
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=htF2kMoO,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-21T16:57:20.831+0000) > > How dare they try to make money off a game they built and support. For shame! *laugh* THAT, I have no issue with. My point was, why pretend that this is not the case, by giving them "chores"? We understand cosmetics, we're used to buying cosmetics. Why does it need to be part of a game mechanic?
: Card games have less RNG since you choose your deck also with the passing of turns the chance to get the card that you want increases since the number of card that you can have in a deck is limited. TFT you can't make your deck and the cards are from an infinite pool (some people say that there are a limited amount of card for each champion, but my personal experience says otherwise)
> [{quoted}](name=LordBrasca,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=mFPyYyMb,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-07-23T11:41:58.671+0000) > > Card games have less RNG since you choose your deck also with the passing of turns the chance to get the card that you want increases since the number of card that you can have in a deck is limited. > > TFT you can't make your deck and the cards are from an infinite pool (some people say that there are a limited amount of card for each champion, but my personal experience says otherwise) Indeed there is a limited amount of each champion, and there are charts available that explain this. In general, card games are less complex than TFT, they have fewer variables. Therefore, they have less RNG, less opportunities for RNG to operate. But according to the scale of the game, it's comparable. Players make decisions in card games and dice games, and players make decisions in TFT, and they are all predominantly games of chance.
: add an item shop?
Depending on how much items cost, I think that econ probably becomes the only viable strategy in such a game...
Atherius (NA)
: TFT Volibear makes no sense
Maybe you're over-analyzing things a bit...
IcyWard (NA)
: I want to thank Riot
Dude. The game is NOT about strategy and tactics. Those are pretty basic and incidental. It's an RNG game, it's a lot of luck, akin to many games of chance. Like card games or dice games. The name is a misnomer. It's just a very long game, as far as games of chance usually go...
: Wild feels extremely bad after the AS scaling change, despite the compensation buff
I don't understand it, but can confirm that Wild feels bad, worse than before the patch. You could skip it (or build out of it) for Shapeshifter builds and get better synergies. Elise, Shyvana, Swain, Aurelion if you're lucky...
IcyWard (NA)
: Teamfight Tactics needs a new name...
Haven't you learned that Riot redefines English? “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean..."" "Little Legends" The store has a section called "Loot". By definition (Webster's, I mean, not Riot's), "Loot" is something which is not purchased in a store... The list goes on. We've gotten so used to it by now that we don't even notice. It's in the patch notes, it's in the advisories... Riot has its own language.
: Suggestions/Quality of Life
That 3rd point is actually the most important. Why do you need an indicator to know which champs you are playing?
: regarding items and gold in tft
Items can neither be bought nor sold in this game. (As of yet.) They have no value, but if they did, then I'd want a lot more than 1g...
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Lrrr Omicronian

Nível 117 (NA)
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