Comentários de Rioters
: Account Permanently Banned
More likely your forum account is fine - but your in game account was ban. They will not explain anything about the ban other than "yes" or "no". They could careless if you keep your account or not. Even if they dont really have anything on you - so long as they "thought" you did it's gon for ever. > We do not reveal any details regarding accounts that were banned for those circumstances. This is mainly due to security reasons, I am not accusing you of planning on doing so, but if we did reveal the information some players may use it to "reverse engineer" our detection and anti-cheat measures. This is a very big risk, so we have to take a zero-exception policy for everyone.
AlI Might (EUNE)
: Some guy got me banned by playing from my account without me knowing
More likely your forum account is fine - but your in game account was ban. They will not explain anything about the ban other than "yes" or "no". They could careless if you keep your account or not. Even if they dont really have anything on you - so long as they "thought" you did it's gon for ever. > We do not reveal any details regarding accounts that were banned for those circumstances. This is mainly due to security reasons, I am not accusing you of planning on doing so, but if we did reveal the information some players may use it to "reverse engineer" our detection and anti-cheat measures. This is a very big risk, so we have to take a zero-exception policy for everyone.
: i get banned
More likely your forum account is fine - but your in game account was ban. They will not explain anything about the ban other than "yes" or "no". They could careless if you keep your account or not. Even if they dont really have anything on you - so long as they "thought" you did it's gon for ever. > We do not reveal any details regarding accounts that were banned for those circumstances. This is mainly due to security reasons, I am not accusing you of planning on doing so, but if we did reveal the information some players may use it to "reverse engineer" our detection and anti-cheat measures. This is a very big risk, so we have to take a zero-exception policy for everyone.
Craysian (NA)
: I got banned?
More likely your forum account is fine - but your in game account was ban. They will not explain anything about the ban other than "yes" or "no". They could careless if you keep your account or not. Even if they dont really have anything on you - so long as they "thought" you did it's gon for ever. > We do not reveal any details regarding accounts that were banned for those circumstances. This is mainly due to security reasons, I am not accusing you of planning on doing so, but if we did reveal the information some players may use it to "reverse engineer" our detection and anti-cheat measures. This is a very big risk, so we have to take a zero-exception policy for everyone.
Comentários de Rioters
Kuro SF (NA)
: support items should ONLY nerf gold UNTIL COMPLETED
1-2 mins can mean a lot of things in this game though. Try closing your eyes for 1-2 mins and tell me how well your CS goes:) Playing as support - I do feel the gold differences and time to completing it is a bit off. One thing to note tho - in the past - support didnt get gold from doing anything different. I think the fact it still does give gold and works about the same in terms of getting a cheap item for wards is still there. Instead of just giving gold to support players tho - they shift that to supporting your team better over all as a means to get gold instead. Aka, a good support will only be good as their team is doing. Over all I dont think there will ever be a good solution to supports and gold generation that wouldn't work for other lanes outside of a tree/rune add in that removes something big for a main laner. At best they will have to do something like this effect to punish for the lack of another teamsmate skill that is forcing you to do something like clearing waves instead of a main laner doing it instead. Witch goes back to > Aka, a good support will only be good as their team is doing. What I think they should do is really offset how a support gets gold instead with a rune and item change. When you have this Support Rune you get access to a ward item that you build up over time. This item will be focus on either doing dmg to the enemy, last hitting for the ADC, or healing/shield the team. From there - you gain a percent of gold from any CS that is kill around you (adc still gets full lot), but in exchange - you don't get any CS gold if you do last hit anything. More or less your role at that point is just to support and do whatever support item you pick up for the team. If you have to clear a lane - then your team did something wrong as a whole instead, but at the same time - it doesn't hurt anyone either.
: Fortify: Fortifies the closest tower to you, increasing its rate of fire and making it invulnerable for the next 5 seconds.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HiBiULMM,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-02T07:12:42.638+0000) > > Fortify: > > Fortifies the closest tower to you, increasing its rate of fire and making it invulnerable for the next 5 seconds. I think something like this would be a great value for some champs that can wont have a good time in lane. Going off this idea: Fortifies the closest tower to you, increasing its rate of fire and healing the tower for a percent of health over 5 seconds. Overpower the closest tower to you, increasing its rate of fire and can cast two shots for 5 seconds. Repair - repairs the closest building to you over 5 seconds for a percent of health The only problem with anything that can push or deal damage is that it gives that player another spell vs something that is tend to be use for defending reasons. Other wise - you make bully champs just that much more powerful.
: Haste refreshes all ability cooldowns (even ultimate) cooldown: 300 seconds.
> [{quoted}](name=Inkling Commando,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HiBiULMM,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-12-02T07:42:52.251+0000) > > Haste > > refreshes all ability cooldowns (even ultimate) > > cooldown: 300 seconds. Way too powerful though - some ults really can destory a team already - allowing them with two would be massive power shift.
: My own take on "Riot's Rank Punishment System." Hope you agree.
Wouldnt it be better to add a redo system instead? For example, I assume the BIG reason to punish anyone for is because of promos - wouldn't it be better to offer a redo if you have done your promos a few times already? Thus giving you a free retry and over all over coming the problem anyways? For example, if you get to your promos - but lost them - you get a point reset on one of the games of your choice next time you get into promos? Another thing they could add is you have to have soo many hours of PVP under your belt before you can play rank PVP. That should at least keep some smurfs out of games and newer players as well until they get more experience in PVP. Keep in mind - how would you even know that someone just having a bad game/still trying vs giving up? I mean you could say deaths - but how do you know they are not just that bad in the first place? The system would have to put players that are new in different level of games to test the waters with them just a bit - so it is possible that there is another problem going on as well.
Cõmega (NA)
: Inconsistency with the mod team
Could the problem not be with the modes - but how the current tools limit use of posted comments instead? What I mean by this - instead of deleting hard thought out post - maybe "block/hide" them until an edit has been made for whatever reason the comment was strike on for? As a post mod on another forum - I will say the mod in question is reacting in a childish manner even though I understand the point - I think there are better ways to come out of this. Sometimes being forgiving is the hardest part of all when it to comes forums and board posting. With that said - OP is also being a bit silly too. Yes, if that is all you posted - I can see where he might come from too. Short comments with out background or full statement in what you mean can come off weird and rude. With that said - I think both parties (users and mods) should really find new tools to keep it claim and collective, but also take responsibility on anything said or done here as well. Something that might not seem rude to you - can effect others. On the flip side - just saying "No" is just useless and has no helpful meaning to anything.
Vhan8765 (NA)
: Bots in PVP doesn't piss me off; Bots ruining the game for new players does though.
I agree- but the problem is - what value is there to botting in the first place? Why did someone make a script just to play games for? That is what you have to attack. Granted, I never seen it this bad either. This is crazy. All in all - its worth their time to make bots to get champs or points. This is a BIG reason why Riot should start looking at the prices for champs and the game point value. If it is worth to bot a game like this - then you have something wrong xD Just to note - the best way around it is to have them sign in with some sort of captcha if they get enough reports on a player - this way it is auto block and does not require as much time on for manual bans if enough reports on that account comes in. It also makes it much harder for them to script it out to over come the block. The botter will also be force to then have to sign in for every block account making it much harder for them to scale it out without either doubling their hours or workers thus costing them more money and time. New players may still have to sign in once in a while as a false positive - but at least wont hurt them over all as someone can review the games at that point. The 2nd idea is only a bandaide to the over all problem though - even if they did add this in - it would only work for a little while before someone gets smart enough to create for AI to get around it after a while. Still need to fix the NEED/REASON of why to have a bot running all the time in the first place though.
: The email is called "Riot Account update required"
I never got one and was force to change and now I lost my username for ever. Thanks Riot.
: This is an interesting suggestion. I'll pass it along!
I had my account from 2011 and you force a lot of us to lose the account. With mine, you even rest and remove stuff. I want my stuff back in between those years and my username back.
: Thank you for letting us know. Something went wrong with the turnoff process, but we've just gone back in and fixed OCE.
I had my account from 2011 and you force a lot of us to lose the account. With mine, you even rest and remove stuff. I want my stuff back in between those years and my username back.
: Has anyone actually talked to someone from riot or just the player support thats not actual tech at riot? I got nowhere with the player support that answered my ticket. They pretty much just said you fucked in nicer language.
I tried as well - but they said no and even if I show them I had the account (email back from 2011) they just say tough luck. It's really annoying and they keep closing my tickets now even though there is another issue with points missing - at this point I will end up doing a charge back because of all these issues.
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Mradr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-11-20T18:33:35.163+0000) > > Well there is a lot of things to that though: > 1) Its a one skill point skill. For example, would you say the same thing if they scale it out more? > 2) Would you say the value is different for a group q E vs a solo q E? > 3) How are you valuing that skill out? Because a good place ward only cost 75g and can last a lot longer. > 4) How useful is E during fights and or controlling the battle field? > 5) The information is powerful - but how well does it scale thought the game as well? Early it's really useful and the argument for ganks holds well - but what about mid to late where ganks arnt really a thing and by then the support player already has a few sources of wards that they can start placing along with the other team? 5 x 3 + 5 = 20 wards just from a single team at any one time. How much vision does a team really need? How well does that information really scale vs an ability that can shut it all down in one shot? > 6) Is that information worth more than another stun, root, damage ability, or escape? > > That last one I point out because - that seem to be the go to for everyone so far it seems. That the information if powerful for her controlling the lane - but would it really make a difference if she was givin an escape instead? Because so far there are other ADCs and those games run just fine with or with an Ashe on the other team. > > I might be new - but I play with both high Elo players and low Elo players - and the only BIG difference I see between them is skill - and NOT doing silly stuff like we see in low elo face checking dragon. More or less - doesn't that mean the skill should be redesign to support both high and low ELo players more? For example, with a short version and range but with a blindeness effect that would scale outside of just how E works now but still a really good utility ability? > > Why not give it both sight + darkness like effect shorting the range other enemy champs can see that are hit in that area? This would benefit fights as well making the ability useful outside of a lane phase. The effect could be less given vision than the very large one it is is now, but over all, E + R combo would be VERY scary to see and over all could have a big impact on her over all kit. As for scaling it - scale the vision area of effect that the spells has on someone. Doesn't do damage, but VERY utility line of effect that would more or less be limited to how a skill player would/could react with/to. This would benefit both support and ADC play as well gank play or even an escape play. > > For 5 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 2 seconds. Area of effect will scale starting (making up numbers) 2-3-5 radius with 5 being what it is now. > OR==== > For 3 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 1.5-2-2.5 seconds. Scaling will be vision time. Radius will be shorten to 3 over the current 5 cutting it in half. > OR==== > For 2-3.5-5 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 1-2.5-3 seconds. Scaling will be vision time. Radius will be shorten to 3 over the current 5 cutting it in half. - I recommend this as it makes wanting to put point or two into this very powerful while offering scaling with the effect. > > Seems fair for early game till late game and would really play off the utility line of the skill. This would make it very worthy of putting a skill point or two into it. Arguable if HawkShot is Ashes more powerful skill of her kit - this would both nerf and buf it at the same time as it forces it to start smaller for the information while still offering a small window to do something with that information like a gank, another attack, or escaping. High elo would love the plays that could make off this while lower elo would benefit by having some effect on the fight play. The scaling helps roll and give purpose to the ability more as the game continues into the later stages. what are you arguing, it lights up the whole map in a line. do you know how much value that is? :/ you can see what route a jungler has taken. you can see which scuttles are being contested. you can see gank paths. roam paths. respawn timers on camps. it can show pink wards. ashe's E can show pink wards bro, and it can't be countered with anything, it's not like twisted fate pressing R but i have a spell shield so he can't see me, no, the bird see's all things it flies over. the spell has so much value that rito can't give it more value or else ashe takes over the game. but you should know this already.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T19:37:37.803+0000) > > what are you arguing, it lights up the whole map in a line. > do you know how much value that is? :/ > you can see what route a jungler has taken. > you can see which scuttles are being contested. > you can see gank paths. > roam paths. > respawn timers on camps. > it can show pink wards. > ashe's E can show pink wards bro, and it can't be countered with anything, it's not like twisted fate pressing R but i have a spell shield so he can't see me, no, the bird see's all things it flies over. > the spell has so much value that rito can't give it more value or else ashe takes over the game. > > but you should know this already. I think you are just ignoring the questions though and major point of a good place ward can do all that.... I can show high level ELo games with no Ashe doing all that just fine or even better. Also, a lot of that is just basic math - I mean - you know where someone is going if they go in a direction and most likely know what is going down even if you have to play a little safe for it. I think you are giving the E too much value when all that can be done by a ward though. Also, it doesn't actually "Show" you these things - aka - it doesnt create a line of slight or pathing displaying this jungle. It also doesn't light up the map - it shows a part of the map for 5 seconds including the path it took witch isn't on the same time scale as to where it lands. Correct it can show it - but a ward doesn't kill you in a group fight does it? What is sad - even high ELO players know about where the other jungler is already and what monster they are on or killing, but even if you did light up where they are - most likely - in any other ELO - they dont care. They're going to keep jungle their side and move in for ganks when the 5 second display is off them. Far as I know - it doesn't update the kill timer either. It works just like a ward in that if you saw the death time - it will update it - but do you really need that when the game SHOWS you when something big dies? Aka, if you already good at the game - that information is worthless considering most these fights are setup for different reasoning other than a dragon timer.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mradr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-11-20T18:22:03.839+0000) > > Can you point to where it says no carry potential? I dont think this is what the topic is about. This is about E - and a change that would help balance but improve how E works. I might have said hyper carry abilities - aka - there isn't anything adding to her dps from a passive or skill set that increases over time. First sentence, maybe it's just the poor english "I notice one adc not having as much hyper carry"
What I mean is no hyper carry ability or passive - nothing that continues to get bigger like other ADCs have either it be stacks, collecting souls, movement speed, attack speed, etc. It is flat and nothing special about it.
: Ashe E is fantastic. It gives information and vision. I saw you saying ya, but wards give the same info. What you fail to realize is ashe gets the information without leaving lane or putting herself at risk. It's FREE INFORMATION! Even if you argue that your team isn't smart enough to use this information, you can be smart enough to use it!
> [{quoted}](name=Argent Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-11-20T18:51:12.336+0000) > > Ashe E is fantastic. It gives information and vision. I saw you saying ya, but wards give the same info. What you fail to realize is ashe gets the information without leaving lane or putting herself at risk. It's FREE INFORMATION! > > Even if you argue that your team isn't smart enough to use this information, you can be smart enough to use it! I've pointed that out as well. Its "safe" but as I also pointed out - how much is that information really worth compare to an escape, root, or anything else? The ability it self just doesn't scale like other abilities in the game either giving more dmg, range, or etc. It's a flat information ward that only really useful for when warding can't be done - but as I also pointed out - how useful is that really for mid to late game where there are more fights than map control issues? That's a whole ability not doing anything where you have champs now like Senna doing almost everything as far as heal, roots, long range attacks, and etc. Its only for 5 seconds as well - it's useful - don't get me wrong - but it's not like placing a ward some place either. Wouldn't it be better to scale the ability instead and give it some different values/ability that kind of does that - but scales better for both low and high elos? I updated the main post to give an example of what I mean.
: her E is realy strong for skill levels that can use the information it unearths. so that means everything below plat her E is useless unless by chance the hawk sweeps over a person.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-20T13:15:49.168+0000) > > her E is realy strong for skill levels that can use the information it unearths. > so that means everything below plat her E is useless unless by chance the hawk sweeps over a person. Well there is a lot of things to that though: 1) Its a one skill point skill. For example, would you say the same thing if they scale it out more? 2) Would you say the value is different for a group q E vs a solo q E? 3) How are you valuing that skill out? Because a good place ward only cost 75g and can last a lot longer. 4) How useful is E during fights and or controlling the battle field? 5) The information is powerful - but how well does it scale thought the game as well? Early it's really useful and the argument for ganks holds well - but what about mid to late where ganks arnt really a thing and by then the support player already has a few sources of wards that they can start placing along with the other team? 5 x 3 + 5 = 20 wards just from a single team at any one time. How much vision does a team really need? How well does that information really scale vs an ability that can shut it all down in one shot? 6) Is that information worth more than another stun, root, damage ability, or escape? That last one I point out because - that seem to be the go to for everyone so far it seems. That the information if powerful for her controlling the lane - but would it really make a difference if she was givin an escape instead? Because so far there are other ADCs and those games run just fine with or with an Ashe on the other team. I might be new - but I play with both high Elo players and low Elo players - and the only BIG difference I see between them is skill - and NOT doing silly stuff like we see in low elo face checking dragon. More or less - doesn't that mean the skill should be redesign to support both high and low ELo players more? For example, with a short version and range but with a blindeness effect that would scale outside of just how E works now but still a really good utility ability? Why not give it both sight + darkness like effect shorting the range other enemy champs can see that are hit in that area? This would benefit fights as well making the ability useful outside of a lane phase. The effect could be less given vision than the very large one it is is now, but over all, E + R combo would be VERY scary to see and over all could have a big impact on her over all kit. As for scaling it - scale the vision area of effect that the spells has on someone. Doesn't do damage, but VERY utility line of effect that would more or less be limited to how a skill player would/could react with/to. This would benefit both support and ADC play as well gank play or even an escape play. For 5 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 2 seconds. Area of effect will scale starting (making up numbers) 2-3-5 radius with 5 being what it is now. OR==== For 3 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 1.5-2-2.5 seconds. Scaling will be vision time. Radius will be shorten to 3 over the current 5 cutting it in half. OR==== For 2-3.5-5 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 1-2.5-3 seconds. Scaling will be vision time. Radius will be shorten to 3 over the current 5 cutting it in half. - I recommend this as it makes wanting to put point or two into this very powerful while offering scaling with the effect. Seems fair for early game till late game and would really play off the utility line of the skill. This would make it very worthy of putting a skill point or two into it. Arguable if HawkShot is Ashes more powerful skill of her kit - this would both nerf and buf it at the same time as it forces it to start smaller for the information while still offering a small window to do something with that information like a gank, another attack, or escaping. High elo would love the plays that could make off this while lower elo would benefit by having some effect on the fight play. The scaling helps roll and give purpose to the ability more as the game continues into the later stages.
: What are you smoking, no carry potential? Ashe had like a 55% wr last patch and has since they buffed her slow. She doesn't need more power arguably she needs less
> [{quoted}](name=Minimac2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-11-20T17:31:45.951+0000) > > What are you smoking, no carry potential? Ashe had like a 55% wr last patch and has since they buffed her slow. She doesn't need more power arguably she needs less Can you point to where it says no carry potential? I dont think this is what the topic is about. This is about E - and a change that would help balance but improve how E works. I might have said hyper carry abilities - aka - there isn't anything adding to her dps from a passive or skill set that increases over time.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Ashe E shows the exact camps the enemy jungler has or hasn't done. It shows your jungler where he should go to meet the enemy jg or where to go to avoid them. As I said, you need to be high elo to appreciate Ashe E ability. When you reach diamond or so you will understand how valuable it is. Also I guess you really are new, because trinket ward is 90 seconds at level 1. NOT 150 seconds. and 120 seconds is it's max duration.
Oh I look up ward durration and it said: 150 seconds Placed wards last for 150 seconds and have 3 health. They grant 30 gold and 40 experience upon death. https://lol.gamepedia.com/Stealth_Ward_(Item) Either way I guess, it hasn't really mess with information for me I guess. I always know when we are about to be gank for some reason and or help the jungler. The game feels the same for both playing against high Elo and low Elo friends. The only difference is skill level it feels like - not for say vision as other games play just fine or the same with or without an Ashe in the game. I appreciate it already, but just doesn't seem like it scales right. Its a skill you put a single point in and half the game it does the same thing even if you put more point into it. What's the deal with that? Why not do something different with it that scales with the game? Also, why are you talking about the first 3-4 mins and not the whole game? It seems weird to focus on that only. Early game E does do really well and for the example above as you said - but mid to late game where ganking isn't the same? What about then? Also, as far as getting the time between that short window - a good W will let us have a bit of running time if a ward catches you for a gank. Thus limiting your time and later gank power. So far most games where the jungler does kill us both happen because they plan for both to push in either way and the ganker following up right into it thus even a good ward or an E wouldn't really do much if they have enough power to do that. Other times if a gank works - its because of skill level between the players. One player being a bit too wild/not playing safe or simply they didn't have the skill level to know if half the enemy team is missing - don't face check dragon :) Yes, I am new, but it just seems like E could be better if they did something different with it and maybe not give it so much starting power but allow it to scale instead follow up with something else to make it useful outside of just vision information like we are discussing below.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Minute 1 sure you can ward. but ashe E is complete half map information every minute. You can't tell me truthfully you actually roam the entire enemy jungle once per minute as a support from minute 3 till the end of the game. That would be straight up lying
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-20T13:21:27.333+0000) > > Minute 1 sure you can ward. but ashe E is complete half map information every minute. You can't tell me truthfully you actually roam the entire enemy jungle once per minute as a support from minute 3 till the end of the game. That would be straight up lying Half the map information? It doesn't cover that much and its only 5 seconds every minute. Lots can happen less then 1 second. You are forgetting the game is the same game over and over again. No one really can do that much different every game to really not know what is going on half the game unless you are really that new like I was. It didn't take me that long to understand how the game works and know what is going on not even playing Ashe. With that said, no, I don't roam the jungle. I only need to place a ward by your red or jungle opening to know if you are coming into our side of the map as the ward last 150 seconds. That is 2 mins I didn't even care where you was at so long as I know you are in your jungle and not ganking bot lane witch is about the distant as E would travel thus it's the same information. That same ward information is the same as I would get from an Ashe E . It's not like Ashe E travels with you or follows you. At best it lights up a spot and shows me your character - not what you are thinking or talking with your team about or even the plans you will make next. The - ONLY - difference is that it is safer to cast - but that can only benfit so long as you know or have a hint on something. For example, E the red monster or if the mid is missing Eing some place they might jump from. The only problem is that - if you miss/do not get any information from it - it really doesn't offer more than a ward will. Aka, they can still gank you if you are in between cool downs, mana, or flash into lower bush and gank you from there. Short of that - every other champ still has a way to deal with that to some point such as an escape, root, stun, shield, movement speed, etc and flash. This is why the game can keep playing even without an Ashe. And this is if your TEAM knows how to use the information. Just because you know the information - doesn't help everyone either nor the team it self. For example, if you E baron while you are the only one up - what does that help you with? Same with Dragon, a team mate about be kill, or etc. The information is only helpful if your team knows how to use it making solo q E not as powerful as a group of friends E would be.
: Alright...point taken. Hawkshot is definitely in a pretty weird spot overall. It's an absurdly strong tool in flex queue/pro play because it gives you a ton of information depending on its use. But true to your point, it's not as well liked in many solo games, especially in lower elo, due to the fact that it doesn't usually matter what information you pull when everyone's just gonna run it down anyway. Couple this with the fact that it's not really the most interactive ability (or rather, it's literally just "point this at the area you want to see, and hope it gives you information you can use") and it's not really a very "fun" ability either. I do want to give it a hat tip as one of the oldest abilities in the game, and it's actually aged quite well considering...well, one look at Ryze and Evelyn. >.> But your point does stand: it can be made more fun, and there are a couple of interesting ways to take it. I want to stress though that there are some ways I wouldn't consider as theyre way too close to other champions. Specifically, Ashe cannot have a bunch of abilities that make her comparable to Quinn. Valor has an ability that grant's short range sight, one the gives MS and fires a huge AoE, an ability that blinds and attacks people, and the passive of marking enemies for bonus damage. Using any of these mechanics wouldn't really be "creative" would it? And to keep it true to the character, it needs to be frost-oriented. So...there's two things that make Hawkshot so iconic to veteran players like myself. The global range, and the vision. These things are both tactical, and the overall point of the ability anyway. I will be attempting with these ideas to leave those pieces untouched. So...what can a Glacial unit do with a frosty owl familiar? Well, it can slow units it passes through, similar to how twin shadows works. No damage, just slow. This does open the way for the freeze ray that comes from the Inspiration runes to also factor in to give it a slight damage kick, but the ability itself could still be left to deal no damage. Also like twin shadows, it can slow harder and longer the further it travels, meaning throwing it point blank is just a brief, sort of weak slow to allow you maybe a moment to try and gapclose or run. But that long range snipe into mid lane that hit's the enemy mid laner slows him heavily for plenty of time for your mid laner to make an impact. In addition, this would then apply the vision portion in the area around the target hit (even if they were in stealth) instead of the area where you set it to reveal, should it hit anything on the way. Why has Riot not utilized such an idea? Well...mainly because of her passive. She already slows anything near her...legit, build runaan's, slow entire enemy team, support Ashe new meta. Adding another slow on top of it, especially one that can get absolutely ASININE if someone is good at landing them from long range, would give her crazy assists from across the map in setting up horrendous slows on top and mid from afar. And this is...well, still well within the realms of her kit, and I would still want Riot to at least see *how actually busted* it would be. First of all...it's pretty damn hard to hit, since the actual projectile is more narrow than her ult, and obviously if it reaches the designated endpoint and does its area reveal without hitting an enemy, then you didnt hit an enemy, and noone is slowed. So in the majority of games, I wouldn't expect it to be used for more than the usual, iconic scouting, or a brief, weak slow to try and make a play in lane. Or, maybe someone will try the Ashe teleport play with their E instead of their ult...but I don't see a case where that would have nearly as much impact as the ult, so probably not. With all the horrifically overloaded kits coming out (cough, KaiSa, cough) in recent patches, I don't think giving Hawkshot a little bit of utility (again, not even damage) is going to make her gamebreaking op. Another possibility to look into, as you said, is to have it behave somewhat like the Sentinel spell from WoW, and after its immediate use, have it remain around (with a much smaller sight radius) on a piece of terrain or something. And your next cast would then be sent from the terrain, if the Hawk is still there. I say "if it's still there" because this much vision control is something Riot has been working pretty hard to deny in recent seasons, and giving this long-persisting vision would need counterplay. Namely, the ability for them to be cleared, like wards would be. Another thing is to combine pieces of both of my ideas, and allow a more persistent vision to be applied to an enemy physically hit by the Hawkshot, that reveals everything in their sight radius for the usual time of the reveal duration, plus the distance traveled when the hawk hit. Giving it no slow in this case, but instead a ridiculously longer sight radius around the afflicted enemy, keeps every piece of its iconic vision control, without jeopardizing the overall power creep of the ability. I will stress this however: if you want to make her E, which is already a strong informational tool, feel more interactive, then she'd have to recerive some form of nerf for the fact that her hawkshot would then have a more direct impact on the game than simply providing information. She'd get nerfed to oblivion, probably in her Q.
Just to poke some holes: The slow can be over come with some boots and skills. So while I think the slow is nice - there are counters for it that other team will have in place of her slow/passive when it comes to fights as her E will be already taken for sight/information gathering already. Plus the slow isn't that bad in terms of how long it can slow the enemy team already. It's about right in terms of still being able to move around while she tries to kite and being a few hits dead depending on the items you get in the time of game play. I am just saying almost any champ could catch up to her pretty quickly when she has no escapes to play with already. I agree, the over all ability would have to be rework to make it fit. I am not saying to just buff it because she needs buffs - it's just the skill seems soo strange and doesn't really fit everything else in the game. Why not give it both sight + darkness like effect shorting the range other enemy champs can see that are hit in that area? This would benefit fights as well making the ability useful outside of a lane phase. The effect could be less given vision than the very large one it is is now, but over all, E + R combo would be VERY scary to see and over all could have a big impact on her over all kit. As for scaling it - scale the vision area of effect that the spells has on someone. Doesn't do damage, but VERY utility line of effect that would more or less be limited to how a skill player would/could react with/to. This would benefit both support and ADC play as well gank play or even an escape play. For 5 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 2 seconds. Area of effect will scale starting (making up numbers) 2-3-5 radius with 5 being what it is now. OR==== For 3 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 1.5-2-2.5 seconds. Scaling will be vision time. Radius will be shorten to 3 over the current 5 cutting it in half. OR==== For 2-3.5-5 seconds, the area hawk-shot hits will be granted vision, enemies cough in the blast will also have their vision darken for 1-2.5-3 seconds. Scaling will be vision time. Radius will be shorten to 3 over the current 5 cutting it in half. - I recommend this as it makes wanting to put point or two into this very powerful while offering scaling with the effect. Seems fair for early game till late game and would really play off the utility line of the skill. This would make it very worthy of putting a skill point or two into it. Arguable if HawkShot is Ashes more powerful skill of her kit - this would both nerf and buf it at the same time as it forces it to start smaller for the information while still offering a small window to do something with that information like a gank, another attack, or escaping. High elo would love the plays that could make off this while lower elo would benefit by having some effect on the fight play.
Saezio (EUNE)
: How do you ward enemy jungle minute 3 or 4? I think it's almost impossible for soloq to be so coordinated to pressure 2 lanes to make that JG quadrant safe so one member can go and ward. Also, 2-3 people's effort needed compared to the press of 1 button
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-11-19T16:35:51.216+0000) > > How do you ward enemy jungle minute 3 or 4? I think it's almost impossible for soloq to be so coordinated to pressure 2 lanes to make that JG quadrant safe so one member can go and ward. Also, 2-3 people's effort needed compared to the press of 1 button As a support player - it isn't hard to go into a jungle and ward bushes - at 1min I also ward for the jungle path they helps not just bot lane, but also jungle depending on map positions. So over all - there are ways to get vision pretty quickly - not just a support, but jungle, mid, top, and adc can also place a way that is 6 wards on the map alone. The problem is as you said - solo q - as in - we can't always use the information as a "team" as you can't tell someone fast enough or silyl enough not to do something or to do something with the information given. So while the E can be really useful - sometimes falls short for everyone on the team even if the information granted could be huge in terms on how to deal with something. Then again - as I said - a ward can also give you just as much information in most cases. I guess - how can you put a value on information if not everyone uses said information in the same way?
: Think about what you're saying. It isn't an either/or thing. She gets even more vision in addition to warding.
> [{quoted}](name=Nik Nikerson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZQXuAf2d,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-19T13:43:54.596+0000) > > Think about what you're saying. It isn't an either/or thing. She gets even more vision in addition to warding. Think about what you are saying - what about every other game that doesn't have an Ashe? Ashe isn't a key unit to make all games winable and good warding will carry a lane more than an E alone will. The fact that other champs are just fine in bot - mid - top lane with a good place ward and a little bit communication can go a long way over a single E will carry. Information wise, a good place ward is more key than a random shot E just from the fact you could remove Ashe and play any other ADC in there. Keep in mind, other champs do have escapes, roots, stuns, etc for in-place of that skill. Even if she does use her E - keep in mind its only for 5 seconds - so you would kind of have to know something is coming in a direction - while a ward is 150 seconds.
: I think I see your point. The E ability as a whole to you feels like you really only need to put one point in it for the whole game, pretty much, and from there, it really doesn't matter if you level it for the entire rest of the game. That's about where you're going with it, right? Instead of trying to play along with your direct question, since I'm not *completely* on board with what you mean yet...let me go ahead and flip the question: what would you *suggest* Ashe have in that slot? Another damaging ability? would you like it to reveal a larger radius in travel as it levels, and reveal a slightly larger end point for longer as it levels? Like...what is it that *you* think fits it better, if that's how you feel about it. We can use that as a slightly better discussion topic, so that I can understand you a little more. As far as it not fitting her kit's *design* though, I'll have to disagree with you there. Ashe is a pretty classic *ranger* champion, and most rangers across multiple games, stories, etc... usually have some sort of pet or familiar. Ashe's hawkshot scout is her familiar in this case - a bird's eye view of the battle field that's relayed to her in a way pretty unique to the ranger archetype.
Yes, but instead of something you put in a point and forget, why didn't they make it an ability to that scales with time or anything else? For example, make the vision more ward like, like a pet, you would cast the Owl in the tree with small radius of vision for a longer period of time of instead of 5 seconds - make it 25 seconds starting to 100 seconds max with slightly more vision. Still shorter time than a ward, but over all would benefit the over all idea of how Ashe should work for both start of the game till the end by having her Owl camp Barn or Dragon or places in the jungle. The problem here is that it doesn't scale well with the game in terms of other ADCs getting higher carry AD over time for team fights and everything else. It's REALLY powerful for early game where ganks are the most scariest - but that fear falls off over the mid to late game. There are other factors to ganks and a team comp that really can go a long way that over comes just vision base tracking. This doesn't fix the issue - but at least it would make bot lane early game super safe. Not that I recommend this change, but it seems weird she wasn't given this already when comparing kits like others have. Another is when sighted by the vision from the Owl, she reveals even hidden things such as champs and wards by showing their position (maybe not show them like they are not hidden, but at least shows a mark that they are close). From there, when max, allow her to see even the hidden revealing the wards/champs for all to see in group fights. This gives a benefit for fights + sight and make it worth getting over Q/W depending on the make up of the other team. This would make her both a GOOD support AD and allow her to scale with the game more by helping to control the map for the lack of escapes and hyper scaling that other ADCs would have by forcing the other team to act very differently and to play more safe. I like this as it doesn't change much about her in terms of DPS - but it really shines how powerful Ashe can be in group fights even for the lack of hyper scaling and no escapes. It really plays safe for her no escape by still placing the information still into the users hands and skill level while giving it a bit more for how to use it. Others that I seen are - when sighted, Ashe does a bit more damage to those that are revealed or maybe a higher chance of being frozen/frost/slow. This would give her a slight hyper scaling ability and/or work with her passive a bit more. Over all it doesn't fit her kit when comparing other kits. Yes, it's a archer thing - but it's not the same as other kits that have escapes, traps, roots, stuns, heals, etc. The over all ability is just lacking from other stand points of other ADCs out there. The ability is just lacking over all scaling to the rest of the game and I think that is a bit unfair when introducing champs like Senna that can also heal, shields, root, long range, etc etc. I just feel like there is more that could be done with her E even if it changes her starting a little bit. I like how the pet works in terms of casting an Owl to help out. So, whatever change we could see, I still like to see it play off the Owl idea. Just make the Owl useful outside of just the start of the game though and more useful than just a vision ward though.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Ashe is 53% winrate. She needs nerfs not buffs lol Also, her E, if you know how to use it (hit as many JG camps ass possible etc) makes YOUR ENTIRE TEAM safe to ganks. Because you know where their JG is. It's extremely useful in high elo
Well I mean you could argue a good ward placement gives just as much of that information as her E does. I mean that is one of the reason why there is another thread about how Riot is removing more vision for higher elo reason.
: ashe is doing really well right now, she is in a great spot.
Yes, I didn't say she was in a bad spot - but the E it self doesn't really fit the rest of the kits out there in terms of scaling with her E witch is the point of the thread:) I dont understand why people don't add more to their "no" comments. Please hit as many points as you can:)
: can say played some ekko jung, and my lord is he satisfying but way too strong, his kit is just idk really fun for some reason, on the same hand hes to broken and even playing him you feel he needs a nerf, but yeah mysteriously nerf a bit pls
: Ashe's Hawk Shot is arguably the most powerful tool in her kit. A global sight check that reveals its end location and the path along the way on a fairly short cool down. It makes a clever Ashe basically ungankable. Seriously, you can be in bot lane and reveal all enemy jungle camps basically predicting when the enemy jungler will be on bot side allowing you to play passive during that time and thus be ungankable discounting 4-man invades. You also never have to facecheck a bush. It allows you to skip the far-sight totem for the much more powerful sweeper. It allows you got gain so much information directly and it allows you to deny the enemy information indirectly. I will never understand people who call that ability weak or useless. It is spectacular.
Right, but it's only for 5 seconds. Even with a short cool down - it takes a while for it to recharge and the ability is use up. She doesn't have hyper scalling ability either, so while the ability works really well early game and a bit to late game - that ability doesn't do a whole lot during a fight compare to a root, stun, or more damage. Also, if people are questing the ability - doesn't that mean there is something a bit wrong about her total kit then? Also, wouldn't a global sight ward provide just as much information? I mean we don't need that much information to know not to walk in a bush or that an enemy is close by. How much information is that worth for a whole ability, skill points, and etc? I mean the ability doesn't scale like Q or W with more damage or longer sight time. You end up having to put point into it at later levels for little reason at all. I guess - I dont see the point in her E that doesn't scale like the other 99.99% kits that do. Why can't she be more like a VERY strong utility champ for the lack of hyper scaling that other champs have? Or for the lack of a real escape ability? I think that would make Ashe very powerful as a champ for early / late game map control for the trade in power compare to the other ADCs that are in the game such as Jinks, Cog, Senna, Draven, etc etc Over all I think you miss the whole point and only looking at the ability witch isn't the only problem.
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