: I know this post is a bit old now, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I saw a lot of people commenting on how they've seen people say worse and not get banned. Normally that's because no one, or maybe only one person, actually reports them. A simple google search of what you said will show that it is considered offensive and, in some cases, a slur towards Asian people, even if not all Asians are offended by it. Even tho many consider it to not be a big deal, riot probably has it registered as a slur in their system. The ban was probably as severe as it was because the entire enemy team reported it. People probably could get away with saying this if no one in the game was bothered by it. But because it received such intense feedback, the system marked it as hate speech, which it technically is. Hope this helps clear things up a little. You probably didn't deserve what you got but remember in the future actions, even unintended ones, have consequences.
It was said some where else in this thread that it doesn't matter how many people report you for the system to issue a punishment. However, I don't fully believe this. I just don't think it is fair that I got such a severe punishment, in large part, due to the enemy pre made team just getting annoyed with me and agreeing to report.
: People have their own triggers, it came to a point where this community became babied enough that “gg ez” is now a reportable offence. People have their own ways when it comes to words regardless of their age, one thing that may be looked at as satire or “not that serious” are looked at because if it’s encouraged in game it makes Riot look bad and also allows for furthermore continuation of the behaviour. What you need to realize what you said was a derogatory term should their be a punishment? Sure. Is two weeks too much of a punishment? That can be argued yes.
And that is all I am trying to argue. Like you said gg ez is not going to be treated as seriously as people saying the N-word. And in my opinion what I said is closer to the "gg ez" side of the spectrum than the N-word. However, I understand there will always be people who disagree with me, just as I am sure there are people that get more annoyed at "gg ez" than the N-word.
: Great system of riot is flawless again.They are very good at bann good players and letting feeders and trollers get away.I must say to them KEEP UP WITH GREAT WORK RITO.And COPY HERE WHOLE CHAT LOG NOT SCREEN SHOT
Well, that is the entire chat log I was provided with. And I no longer have access to the log as the ban has expired by now, so I can no longer view it. The screen shot is just what I saved for my own records.
: The behavior system just moves you along accordingly, chat restrictions then bans if any negative behavior continues. As for banning people of negative experience, this can vary since things on a scale to of what is negative can vary it's like when a police report is issued for mass amount of people whom are "injured" that can mean anything from a fracture to a small scratch. Also peoples age doesn't matter when looking at how triggered they can get, everyone has different ways of looking at things that may be deemed inappropriate, offensives, vulgar etc.
Unfortunately the behavior system does not "just move you along accordingly". It says in Riot's rules that it normally goes that way but "excessive negative behavior can result in a Two-Week or Permanent suspension at any time without having a chat restriction on the account." The full rules is listed in this thread by VentressRedeemed. And apparently what I said was excessively negative, which I just don't see, and apparently neither do 125/173 people. And I would agree that a negative experience can vary. Furthermore, I would argue that saying one, slightly offensive word, and then never saying anything again, is a negative experience that is not on par with harassing someone the entire game for playing poorly. Finally I think people's age does matter. In this society we expect a 25 year old to handle issues better than an 8 year old. I think we should understand that most people playing this game are either adults or close to it, and start treating them as such.
: The Boards is a very limited data set, especially when compared to the entire playerbase. A very, very small fraction of the League community utilizes the Boards, and of those that do, only a small number post regularly here in Player Behavior. If you spend enough time in this section, you will notice there are three very distinct groups: players contesting their punishments, players reporting other players' actions, and players answering questions. While the opinions of any particular group are no less valid than those of the other groups, they may at times follow a trend, and you have to account for that. To be blunt, when you post a poll like that in the Player Behavior board, you are going to have votes from people who are **always** going to vote "Riot is too harsh" because they are angry about their own punishment. The IFS doesn't learn based on a subset of what a few hundred players think. It is based upon reports that span the entire playerbase for that region, which ranges from hundreds of thousands to millions of players. And the playerbase as a whole has overwhelmingly responded negatively to racism.
Well the boards are the only outlet I really have left. I talked to Riot support but was not satisfied with their answer as they essentially told me that they were done talking to me when I tried to understand why I got banned. So I go to the boards and put out a poll, yes I take it with a grain of salt, but it is the only thing I have to look at since Riot has basically abandoned me in this issue. So, yeah, I am going to use this data in my arguments because it is all that I have been provided with. However, I understand that only a select few use the boards. I was legitimately surprised at how many responses I got, as I hardly knew that the boards existed until I needed an outlet for my issue.
: That's true. perhaps if you submit a ticket to Riot linking this post they might reconsider. I support you on this. I'm just explaining how the system works and why such behavior is usually not allowed. And explaining why I don't expect Riot will change their policy on this.
Yeah I appreciate any feed back on this issue and you did help shed more light on this. I will probably send in one more ticket once this thread stops getting responses. However, I understand there is a next to 0 percent chance anything is changed because every time I have talked with Riot support they seem to be extremely rigid in their policies.
: I certainly believe that the system needs changes, but I'm not sure those changes would include making what you did allowable. The system already accounts for jokes between friends. Anything that is said is considered okay (even if normally offensive) so long as nobody reports you for it. For it to be punished, someone had to have reported you. If you say something like that in chat and nobody reports you for it, you won't be punished for it. In a group of all 5 friends, you can get away with this sort of thing because they know it's a joke and they are unlikely to report you for it. In your situation though, somebody had to have been offended by it and must have chosen to report you for it.
Regardless, I feel that the 123/171 who agree with me shows that the community does not find what I said to be offensive enough to warrant the punishment that was given.
: With the IFS, there are a few aspects of it that Riot has discussed in great detail, namely how it is a learning system, and that they don't simply plug in a few words they don't like into the coding and the IFS simply scans chat for those key words. The scan is only a small part of what the IFS actually does, and it's a gross oversimplification when some people reference it as a "chat bot." It's a fairly sophisticated bit of software that is capable of learning what players in a specific region find offensive. So, while it is theoretically possible for gendered pronouns to become offensive to some player groups, or the use of GD, it would take a fair amount of feedback from players, reporting multiple players in multiple games for using those phrases/words, to teach the IFS that the playerbase does not find them acceptable. At that point, they would begin to be punished accordingly to the level the IFS deems necessary.
I would argue that the simple fact of 122/170 people saying the ban was not warranted, shows that this is something the community does not view as offensive.
: That's fair, I think punishments are too harsh in some cases and too light in others. It's unfortunate but the system is the way it is.
But I had hoped that when Riot support staff saw a punishment that was too harsh they would correct it. However, they only see the punishment system in black and white apparently.
: Yes, you can go an entire game without flaming anyone but if your chat made a negative experience for someone then there's a more likely chance you could be banned or chat restricted, also since you were hit with a two weeks ban rather than chat restriction most likely this isn't your first time you said something that was deemed negative. The word itself already has a negative connotation attached to it and is negative in nature.
Well, I asked the Riot support person if my punishment was solely from the one thing I said in the one game. He said yes. Assuming that I was toxic in previous games shows me you think that this is a drastic response for what I said. Furthermore, I don't think we should be banning people for making a "negative experience" for others. We are all supposed to be at least 13, that should be old enough to have a negative experience without getting exceptionally triggered.
: Well you brought the example of the N word which is why I replied with that. Anyways what you referred to can be looked at as a pejorative rather than racial slur which is why people have no real fear of censoring it, either way it’s not a nice thing to say and some people can find it offensive since it’s a negative connotation.
Is something that is just "not a nice thing to say" worthy of a 2 week ban and losing all of one's end of season rewards?
: Just gonna throw my two cents out there. Nowadays everybody gets super offended over EVERYTHING, hell just saying hello to your neighbor is offensive. Now saying something like that is enough to throw anybody into a hissy fit even though it was clearly a joke and tbh it's silly to not only get banned for such things but it's sad that people are that easily offended, now I'm not saying it isn't racist, but there is a major difference between straight up being racist and satirical racism and only showing what YOU said is something Riot really needs to work on, like if anybody looked at it you can see the guy/gal is both having a good time and is not out to intentionally start a bunch of drama and we cannot see if his/her teammates are getting angry or also having a good time, we also cannot see what the enemy was saying either so that further complicates things. Now, before you go "we don't need to see what the enemy or what his teammates were saying", in some cases no but in this case it would sorta help EVERYBODY see if anybody on his team or on the enemy team were actually displeased with what he was saying. To help shorten it down. Don't type in-game because you'll probably offend someone and get banned regardless of what you said and Riot needs to show us the chat logs for that entire game instead of just showing us OUR OWN chat logs.
Yeah, the enemy team was angry at what I said, so I never typed in all chat again that game. I feel like this is something that Riot should take into account. I noticed they were not happy with what I said so I backed off. I feel like that is better than just raging at them the entire game for disagreeing with me.
: It may not be on the same level to you, but as a corporation, Riot has to make a stance that considers the situation from the viewpoint of the players who would be subjected to hearing the slurs, not just the ones who are saying them. I'm sure you've heard it said before that there is no context on the internet/in email/through texting/etc, and it's true. Written word very often loses the ability to convey the emotional aspects that are intended with a comment. What may have been intended as a lighthearted joke can easily be misconstrued as a sarcastic, biting retort. I'll give you an example. Just last week, a player who didn't speak English as a primary language posted here on the boards because of a punishment involving the phrase "kys." But they weren't telling someone to do it. They had been told repeatedly to kys by another player, and claimed not to know what the word meant. they responded with "what means kys? can u show me? can u show me?" Now, that could be read one of two ways. Either they didn't know what it meant and were asking for the definition, the language barrier accounting for the odd phrasing, OR they were asking the other player to kill themselves. Two very different meanings, and both could just as easily be correct. There's no way to tell from just looking at the logs which one is actually intended. And what player would ever admit they were actually meaning it as the more severe, rule breaking, one? Very few. Most of them after being punished will try to argue their way out of the punishment, or say that it was just a joke, or that they didn't mean it that way, or that it was a typo. So the policy is very simple and universal, so that it is uniform. There is a zero tolerance policy. Whether a person is joking, or means it as an insult, it is not allowed. Unless you happen to know all 10 players in your match, you cannot possibly know what the background of the other players is. You don't know what race they are, where they come from, what they have been through. You don't know what their families have been through. You're young enough that you probably don't know first hand what Asian immigrants and Asian Americans went through during WWII in America, and then again during the Korean and Vietnam wars. It doesn't get the same amount of publicity that racism against African Americans does, but they were horrible time periods with people treated cruelly. While most of the player base is probably too young to remember what it was like right after Vietnam, their parent's aren't. And if you were playing against an Asian American, their parents would have been alive and having to deal with the fear, hatred and blaming coming from everyone that looked at them during that war, because the worst racists can't even tell the different Asian races apart. Their children would have grown up knowing about it. And if some kid on the internet decided to say ccbb to them, they would have been justified in not finding it even remotely funny. Innocent people died because of that racism during the wars, not in Asia, not on a battlefield, here. In America. Where they had done nothing wrong. They just had the misfortune of being born in a country where ignorance and fear led individuals to take horrible action. So when you decide to make that racist joke at someone on the internet, I'd like you to think about what it actually means to say it. Do you see now why Riot has a zero tolerance policy? They don't support people making jokes about something that led to innocent people being killed.
Again thank you for such a thorough answer. I understand that what I said can be very offensive to some people, but so can calling people using gendered pronouns, he/she. Or saying stuff like "God Dammit", to which a religious person could take great offense in. My point is that anything you say can and probably will offend someone. So we have to decide if we want stricter chat restriction to protect these people, or looser chat restrictions to protect the player's free speech. Both ways have pros and cons. With decisions like this Riot shows that they want stricter chat restrictions, which they are totally in their rights to do. However, the 101/141 players believe that we shouldn't have to censor any slightly controversial thing we say. I just think Riot should listen to their player base before making decisions like this. In my opinion, a game that is rated T should not require people to talk as if they are on a children's TV show.
: You can simply type the N word and say nothing else and get punished.
Is what I said as bad as the N word, because in this discussion everyone says "The N-word" but they reference what I said without trying to censor it.
GigglesO (NA)
: show us the rest of the games.
This was the only chat logs provided to me when I got notified. It showed game 1 and nothing else. Riot support told me that the punishment I got was only because of the one thing I said in that singular game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Delusional,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9FVn5UEA,comment-id=001700000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-28T17:43:45.625+0000) > > You just insulted me several times in that response alone. That is report worthy for harassment and negative attitude in-game. I have yet to return the favor. > > Your first reply to OP wasn't very nice either. You demean the crap out of him without him saying anything to you. Have you ever thought that maybe your insults might be toxic or promote toxicity? Do you see the double standard? > > Just because you aren't banned doesn't mean you don't deserve one. You're just being too uptight is all and I never insulted you, quote me, please. I don't go around bullying people and judging their gameplay and what not, I don't deserve a ban and am not banned for that very reason. Once again just because I'm not talking in a positive manner doesn't mean I'm being toxic. You are 100% just trying to blow things out of proportion and I'm not going to argue about it any longer. Mention this to me again and you will be considered harassing me, as if you haven't already about this topic. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
> [{quoted}](name=e46jmp,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9FVn5UEA,comment-id=0017000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-28T17:53:26.091+0000) > > I don't go around bullying people and judging their gameplay and what not But you came to this discussion just to say this? Is this not going around and judging my "what not"? > [{quoted}](name=e46jmp,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9FVn5UEA,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2017-10-28T10:37:35.287+0000) > > Enjoy the ban and cya in 2 weeks reward-less.
: You said a racial slur which is against Riot rules, even as a joke you may find lightly other people in game can find it offensive and thus report you. When looking at chat logs Riot can't tell if you're joking with a friend or serious so they have to make a decision based on what is wrote, and what was wrote is against their rules and thus they make the decision to ban you. Anyways even as a joke you have to be careful about what you're joking around with as other players may find it offensive, even as a joke the ban can be warranted because it's just against their rules of the game. Riot can make exceptions based on the circumstances but ever so slightly will that happen just always try to be mindful.
I understand that Riot is within their bounds to do it, I just think the world is not black and white so we shouldn't pretend it is when giving punishments. Someone who calls another person the N-word throughout the game because they are playing poorly gets the same punishment as I do, but I feel they are vastly different offenses.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Delusional,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9FVn5UEA,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2017-10-28T13:10:24.017+0000) > > You are way more toxic than that chat log. He said a racial/offensive slur that isn't showed in the chat log he is trying to deceive people and seek pitty for being in high elo and getting banned. Call me toxic idc, I'm not the one sitting one a ban.
I just took a screen shot of what Riot provided to me, this is everything I have. I really have no reason to hide it because I am just asking for people's opinion if the ban was reasonable or not. And I only put in my rank to show that I have a lot of end of season rewards to lose.
: 1. It's not a perma ban. 2. You don't know if it's his first punishment.
It was a two week ban, which while much less than a perma ban, is still pretty serious. That is why I think it is overkill for what I said. This is my first punishment. To my knowledge, I have never gotten a chat restriction or anything.
: Whenever you get a ban of any kind you always get 3 examples of your apparent poor behaviour, in my experience. And you get 2 chat bans before a 2 week suspension. Its quite apparent that you are not exposing the entire story. But the whole idea of getting banned for words is fucking ridiculous, but Riot are not a very intelligent company so you just have to accept it. Why don't they just give you 1000 game chat ban or something. Makes no sense to ban players from playing because of mutable words that some sensitive flowers get offended by. Accounts are fucking free anyway. Ive been banned 3+ times and all it means is I get to go 20-2 vs noobs till 30 again. Not exactly a punishment.
Well, I sent in a ticket and they told me that I got banned only from that one game because of the one thing I sent. I have never gotten even a warning before, that is why I am so surprised at the ban. However, Riot does say they will accelerate the punishment to a 2 week ban if it is excessively negative behavior, but I really don't see how what I said is excessively negative. And I have over 100$ into this account and would prefer not to have all that go to waste.
: That's fair. I understand your point, but as others have explained in this thread already, any racist language is not tolerated period. Save it for your voice call with friends, don't take the risk of putting it through league chat where strangers can see it and report you for it.
Yeah, and I will definitely do that now. But I just think (along with 19/32 people) that this is too harsh of a punishment for what was done. I understand that Riot is within their bounds to do it, I just think the world is not black and white so we shouldn't pretend it is when giving punishments.
: It has nothing to do with being reported by a premade. If only one of the 5 players had reported you, it would have had the same consequence, unfortunately. All it takes is a single report to have a match reviewed by the IFS, and the system is weighted so that premade groups are not able to gang up and report players. Their reports do not count as if they were being submitted by 5 strangers, or as if it were in 5 different matches. While you may have intended it as nothing but a joke, Riot does not view any of the racial slurs as joking matters, and they are punished rather severely. There is quite a long history of that particular slur being used in America against Asians, and while some of the slurs have been "reclaimed" to a degree, that one is still considered fairly offensive by many, many groups. I know it seems harsh, but as usual policy, Riot does not issue warnings or chat restrictions for hate speech. They are typically escalated to either a 14 day or permanent suspension.
Thanks for the explanation I really appreciate it. Also, I understand what I said can technically be considered hate speech but I just believe that we can't think about these things like they are black and white. What I said may have been offensive but, is it on the same level as calling someone the N-word the entire game because they are not playing well? In my opinion they are not, and they should not be treated the same way with their punishment.
: "at the end of the game I received a two week ban despite getting an honor at the end of the game by a random person" Let's be real here the 'random person' was probably your friend. That aside, Riot doesn't tolerate racist language, regardless of being used in jest or in seriousness.
Well, if I am going to lie about getting honored why stop at 1? Why not say I got 3 honors. What happened is I got honored by my friend and a random, you have no way to know if that is true or not, but I have no reason to lie. And I understand that Riot doesn't tolerate it, but the punishment still seems harsh to me.
: > [{quoted}](name=NaturalCauses,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9FVn5UEA,comment-id=0007000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-27T20:35:49.256+0000)It seems a little unfair to bend the definitions of words like that to suit your argument, at least to me. It's not actually my argument, so much as you pointing out a problem with the way I conveyed the information vs. how it's actually treated by Riot's systems. I will remember to present the information in a clearer fashion in the future, if the term "racial slur" is failing to properly convey Riot's policies. >I was just playing with friends and tried to make a joke. I wasn't thinking and it is clear to me now that it was not okay. But, in my opinion, that one lapse in judgement, that took me under 5 seconds to do, doesn't justify punishments that will last for an entire year. Unfortunately there are a lot of quick actions one can take that have lasting consequences, and racial pejoratives are one of Riot's zero-tolerance policies.
Except to jump to a 2 week ban, what I said has to be hate speech. And I do not see how what I said is hate speech, and this could be the disconnect where we can not see eye to eye. Because, I don't think imitation can be considered hate speech, especially since it was only done once. Riot themselves says that to jump to a 2 week ban you need to show "excessively negative" behavior. In my opinion, what I said can not be considered "excessively negative"
: > [{quoted}](name=NaturalCauses,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9FVn5UEA,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2017-10-27T19:58:38.429+0000)And it is not a racial slur, it is an insensitive way to imitate a different culture. While this is technically correct in the strict definition the term "racial slur", a more accurate statement on Riot's rules are that racial pejoratives of any kind are not allowed. We typically say "racial slurs" as those are the most common. The bigger question is why on earth you would feel the need to insensitively insult someone else's culture in a game. An "offensive imitation" is INHERENTLY insulting -- that's the only reason it's offensive.
It seems a little unfair to bend the definitions of words like that to suit your argument, at least to me. But, I never felt "the need" to insult anyone, I was just playing with friends and tried to make a joke. I wasn't thinking and it is clear to me now that it was not okay. But, in my opinion, that one lapse in judgement, that took me under 5 seconds to do, doesn't justify punishments that will last for an entire year.
LitAF (NA)
: In most cases people who tell me to "KYS", often do get punished(I know because I get the notification pop ups right after the game). Also their actions don't give you a free pass to be disrespectful to a culture you don't understand.
The game before the one I got banned, my friend got angry and berated his support with insults and, when we didn't surrender, sold his items bought tears and inted for 10 minutes until we lost. Even I reported him, and he didn't even get a warning. I just don't see how what I did is worse than what he did, especially since this is not an uncommon behavior for him. And I also do my best to report anyone that says "kys" but only get a notification if it is constant throughout the game, but what I did was a one time thing.
: > [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9FVn5UEA,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-10-27T18:58:02.364+0000) > > Racial slurs are not okay, even if they're not targeted at anyone. > > And no, not everything is filtered, mainly because it is impossible to automatically filter everything you could use to insult someone. If you think someone deserves a two week ban because they say something this light you should seriously consider making friends
Let's try to keep it constructive but I am glad to have someone on my side :).
LitAF (NA)
: Hey man just because Riot decided not to censor a phrase does not mean it's fair game. You could probably compose a sentence along the lines of telling somebody to go neck themselves and it won't be censored, however its in no way a justification to use it based solely on the fact that Riot decided not to censor it. It is a flawed and naive logic
Yeah, and that is a good point. However people can tell me to kill myself all day without any consequences, but I offensively imitate another culture one time and get a 2 week ban along with all the other things listed above, I just don't see how that is fair.
: Racial slurs are not okay, even if they're not targeted at anyone. And no, not everything is filtered, mainly because it is impossible to automatically filter everything you could use to insult someone.
Yeah that is a fair point. However, I still feel like it is an unfair punishment, with everything I lose for saying just one phrase in one game. And it is not a racial slur, it is an insensitive way to imitate a different culture. If I really wanted to use a racial slur I would use a word like "c-hink". By using an offensive imitation and not a racial slur I feel it shows I was not intending to insult anyone.
: >Words like the N-word or the F-word are censored but %%%%%%%%%%% Bing Bong are not. I laughed. Seems like it is censored. Edit: I'm not commenting specifically on whether the punishment was appropriate, but merely a humorous moment in the post.
Wow, I actually didn't notice that. That is my bad and it is a good point. However, I still feel like the two week ban is excessive. Even saying the N-word randomly in a game wouldn't warrant a 2 week ban, at least I don't think it would.
Grìm (NA)
: To me it looks like you weren't aware of the context that that combination of words is often used to mock asian people in a very racist manner. As for the person with that name, it looks like nobody has reported them for that, thus they continue to use it. Were there any other games included in your logs that riot gave to you? If there were, it might mean you knew what you were saying. Otherwise, I feel like you should have been left off with a warning.
There were no other games it only gave me the chat log of the one game. And I have never gotten even a warning, that is why I am so surprised at this ban. And the guy with the offensive name is level 30 as I see it, since neither the community or Riot has reported him, they view the phrase as non-offensive. And I agree that what I said is offensive and I would completely understand a warning or chat restriction. And as far as I can tell, what I said was picked up and treated so severely primarily because I was reported by a 5 man pre made group.
: Send as many tickets as needed till they unban you, this ban is stupid.
I sent one and went back and forth with the support person until he called another guy in to tell me they considered the matter resolved.
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