: > [{quoted}](name=Ok Azir,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:41:20.358+0000)So i think having a 30 minute ff timer would be good. The number of games that have ended before 30 minutes but been not realistically winnable for at least 10 minutes (including the majority of players on the losing team not having any fun) is significantly higher than the number of games extending beyond 30 minutes without it being at least a bit close. Ultimately, while League is a competitive game, it is also a *game*, and one where you may not be paired with teammates you get along with. Riot chooses not to force us into long-term unfun situations by giving an out if the majority of the team agrees. I know that may not be something you're personally fond of, but I can't see them changing that rule any time soon. > As for the mastery level on champions before playing them in ranked. I agree it is tough to ensure a player is "proficient" on a champ or not. I do think there is merit in having some sort of system that at least tries to make it so a player has at least played the champion a few times. Riot already does this by forcing you to be level 30 before playing ranked. It is the same concept as this. It restricts ranked a bit but it is for the purpose of preventing inting. I don't believe the benefits outweigh the downsides at all though. If I have a champion and feel confident with them I should be able to play them even if I don't have a ton of experience.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:48:31.436+0000) > > The number of games that have ended before 30 minutes but been not realistically winnable for at least 10 minutes (including the majority of players on the losing team not having any fun) is significantly higher than the number of games extending beyond 30 minutes without it being at least a bit close. Ultimately, while League is a competitive game, it is also a *game*, and one where you may not be paired with teammates you get along with. Riot chooses not to force us into long-term unfun situations by giving an out if the majority of the team agrees. > > I know that may not be something you're personally fond of, but I can't see them changing that rule any time soon. > > I don't believe the benefits outweigh the downsides at all though. If I have a champion and feel confident with them I should be able to play them even if I don't have a ton of experience. Yeah they probably wont change anything. But I am pretty adamant about extending the ff timer. Just for the sake of the competitive players who want to play it out. Maybe even just extending the first vote to 20 minutes...just 15 minutes has been way to early in my experience. And i would say about 70% of the games (in my experience) are at least a little bit winnable when ff'd pre 20 minutes. As for the champion proficiency thing...I can see the multiple problems introduced so I can agree with you on this. Although it is quite annoying dealing with a first time Katarina mid who has no idea what she is doing lmao. But yeah the negatives would probably outweigh the positives over all
: > [{quoted}](name=Ok Azir,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:44:00.101+0000) > > True. Then i would argue why is there even an ff? If the games are that short on average...then players can wait till the game ends. Its not a big deal. Then at 30 minutes allow ff, so if the enemy team is trolling players arent trapped. ff is a good way to preserve mentality for the next game, instead of losing your mind because ur jungler is a KEKW autofill and ur bot lane is a never give up 0/20/0 combo, and leaving because of KEKW players trolling you is not an option so the only option to get the fk out of never give up hardstucks is thru the 4/1 ff vote at 20 i try my hardest every game, but if enemy has pyke, vlad, kaisa, khazix, ekko, im in the mindset to gtfo because that isn't a winnable game
> [{quoted}](name=Summoner SpeII,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:46:48.343+0000) > > ff is a good way to preserve mentality for the next game, instead of losing your mind because ur jungler is a KEKW autofill and ur bot lane is a never give up 0/20/0 combo, and leaving because of KEKW players trolling you is not an option so the only option to get the fk out of never give up hardstucks is thru the 4/1 ff vote at 20 > > i try my hardest every game, but if enemy has pyke, vlad, kaisa, khazix, ekko, im in the mindset to gtfo because that isn't a winnable game Fair. I would just say move ff to 30 minutes. Sure some games will be legit unwinnable and you will have to wait a few extra minutes and suffer through it. But I really do think a majority of games that are ff'd at around the 18-20 minutes mark are ff'd way too early. It is just due to people being tilted and not truly understanding the game. Maybe at higher elo players are more aware of when a game is actually done or not...but in low elo there are SO many throws. And i personally think low elo players cannot truly determine if a game is done or not at 18 minutes. They might think its done...but its totally winnable. Or vice versa. Or perhaps allow ff before 30 minutes only if all 5 players agree. At 30 minutes it can be the normal "majority rules" ff
: > [{quoted}](name=Ok Azir,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:30:41.081+0000) > > Of course. Even I ff. Some games are legit unwinnable. But 90% of games people ff on are still winnable. I think at least delaying the ff timer to 30 minutes would be beneficial. This would prevent ff prematurely. While still allowing players to ff so they arent trapped. Worst case they wait 30 minutes which is usually the length of an average game anyways when i go thru my match history, most games average out to be under 30 minutes, a single throw decides the game in high elo
> [{quoted}](name=Summoner SpeII,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:31:42.079+0000) > > when i go thru my match history, most games average out to be under 30 minutes, a single throw decides the game in high elo True. Then i would argue why is there even an ff? If the games are that short on average...then players can wait till the game ends. Its not a big deal. Then at 30 minutes allow ff, so if the enemy team is trolling players arent trapped.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ok Azir,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-07T17:04:33.694+0000)Most games (especially in low elo) cannot be determined at 15 minutes....I would argue they cant even be determined at 30 minutes. I definitely understand the frustration here, but the surrender option is actually there to save you the frustration of players soft throwing games, tilting out of control, or generally making the situation less pleasant for everyone. While you can't call every game (and while I think many players surrender or give up winnable games), it *really* sucks to be stuck in a 40 minute long game that was effectively lost at 13 minutes. It also means that a winning team can't toy with you by refusing to end the game and dragging out the loss. > 1.) I think there should be some sort of system where you cannot play ranked on a champion you are not at least somewhat proficient on. Define "proficient." See, sometimes a character comes out that's very similar to one you already play, and you end up great with them -- and sometimes a character you have 500,000 mastery points on is just one you still suck at because while you *like* them and play them a lot you just aren't *good* with them. Or sometimes you're like me, and have been playing since Season 1 -- there are a lot of champions I'm good at that I haven't played in ages, but still click. I picked Kassadin on a whim for the first time in about three years in ranked, and stomped my lane opponent into the ground in an advantageous matchup on a character I remembered how to play. Your system would have marked me as unable to do that.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:08:30.333+0000) > > I definitely understand the frustration here, but the surrender option is actually there to save you the frustration of players soft throwing games, tilting out of control, or generally making the situation less pleasant for everyone. While you can't call every game (and while I think many players surrender or give up winnable games), it *really* sucks to be stuck in a 40 minute long game that was effectively lost at 13 minutes. It also means that a winning team can't toy with you by refusing to end the game and dragging out the loss. > > Define "proficient." See, sometimes a character comes out that's very similar to one you already play, and you end up great with them -- and sometimes a character you have 500,000 mastery points on is just one you still suck at because while you *like* them and play them a lot you just aren't *good* with them. Or sometimes you're like me, and have been playing since Season 1 -- there are a lot of champions I'm good at that I haven't played in ages, but still click. I picked Kassadin on a whim for the first time in about three years in ranked, and stomped my lane opponent into the ground in an advantageous matchup on a character I remembered how to play. Your system would have marked me as unable to do that. I would say that maybe a better option is to make the ff timer 30 minutes. I agree it would be frustrating to be trapped in a game for so long if it was actually unwinnable. But i think its 10x worse to lose LP in a winnable game that other players think is unwinnable. This happens so many times to me. And once again I am in Silver...so no one actually is good enough to know if a game is winnable or not at 15 minutes imo. And people constantly throw in Gold and below. Plenty of games have I convinced at least one other person to not ff cuz it was a winnable game. And despite the griefers...we won. This has happened too many times to count for me. But sadly so has premature ff which leads to a loss of LP on a winnable game. So i think having a 30 minute ff timer would be good. It allows late game champs to get items, it prevents people from ff'ing just because the enemy team got mid inhib at 18 minutes or because a bad teamfight happened, etc. As for the mastery level on champions before playing them in ranked. I agree it is tough to ensure a player is "proficient" on a champ or not. I do think there is merit in having some sort of system that at least tries to make it so a player has at least played the champion a few times. Riot already does this by forcing you to be level 30 before playing ranked. It is the same concept as this. It restricts ranked a bit but it is for the purpose of preventing inting.
: when faker played leblanc, the enemy team did ff, ff does exist in pro scene, it is rare, but don't act like ff never happens.
> [{quoted}](name=Summoner SpeII,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:26:16.526+0000) > > when faker played leblanc, the enemy team did ff, ff does exist in pro scene, it is rare, but don't act like ff never happens. Of course. Even I ff. Some games are legit unwinnable. But 90% of games people ff on are still winnable. I think at least delaying the ff timer to 30 minutes would be beneficial. This would prevent ff prematurely. While still allowing players to ff so they arent trapped. Worst case they wait 30 minutes which is usually the length of an average game anyways
DalekZec (EUNE)
: I mean...did you at least sit down and thought through your big idea? This shit just plays to your own favor because of your so called "I'm a sports guy!", well Football doesn't have stealth or a knockup or a 1 shot fiesta. Comebacks in physical sports are more likely than League. Like WAY WAY WAAAAY more and negative attitudes are rare af. League may be an esport, but it's also a psychological sport that can tamper with your nerves unlike football or basketball. Anyway, here's something that i personally call, the hydra problem. Solve one problem, 2 more problems take its place. Let's see how much hydra problems your suggestion has: Removing FFs: solution: - Giving up will not be an option Problems: - Can be abused by the enemy to prolong the game way too long. - Making a lead can be pointless - Smurfs can make low elo players quit - Can be stuck hostage that you'll literally need a SWAT team to free you from the match - League can literally turn from League of Legends into League of Waste of time. That's 5 hydra problems. Big one. Now on to the mastery part. Solution: - Players who are best at their champs will be more frequent. Problems: - Players will have to grind a shit ton of champions just to be able to play them in a ranked game. - Will consume a lot of time. - Many players have mastery 7s on their favorite champs but if they are forced to pick another cuz the enemy counters their champion, but cannot cuz they don't have the required mastery and be forced to play on their main, there is a risk of going 0/10 EVEN on that mastery 7 champ. - Some champions are literally so simple that you don't even have to practice in order to play them, especially ranked. Annie and Garen are good examples and they are good picks too. That's 4 hydra problems. Your suggestion will do a shit ton of harm than it could do good.
> [{quoted}](name=DalekZec,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-07T19:10:42.682+0000) > > I mean...did you at least sit down and thought through your big idea? > This shit just plays to your own favor because of your so called "I'm a sports guy!", well Football doesn't have stealth or a knockup or a 1 shot fiesta. Comebacks in physical sports are more likely than League. Like WAY WAY WAAAAY more and negative attitudes are rare af. > League may be an esport, but it's also a psychological sport that can tamper with your nerves unlike football or basketball. > > Anyway, here's something that i personally call, the hydra problem. Solve one problem, 2 more problems take its place. > Let's see how much hydra problems your suggestion has: > Removing FFs: > solution: > - Giving up will not be an option > Problems: > - Can be abused by the enemy to prolong the game way too long. > - Making a lead can be pointless > - Smurfs can make low elo players quit > - Can be stuck hostage that you'll literally need a SWAT team to free you from the match > - League can literally turn from League of Legends into League of Waste of time. > > That's 5 hydra problems. Big one. > > Now on to the mastery part. > Solution: > - Players who are best at their champs will be more frequent. > Problems: > - Players will have to grind a shit ton of champions just to be able to play them in a ranked game. > - Will consume a lot of time. > - Many players have mastery 7s on their favorite champs but if they are forced to pick another cuz the enemy counters their champion, but cannot cuz they don't have the required mastery and be forced to play on their main, there is a risk of going 0/10 EVEN on that mastery 7 champ. > - Some champions are literally so simple that you don't even have to practice in order to play them, especially ranked. Annie and Garen are good examples and they are good picks too. > > That's 4 hydra problems. > Your suggestion will do a shit ton of harm than it could do good. Im not opposed to keeping the ff and it to a later time to prevent being trapped. Having an ff is fine because I understand the frustration of being trapped in a game that is absolutely unwinnable. Im just saying more times than not the games that people ff on are premature and due to tilt. The game is actually winnable...had the surrender vote been delayed to 30 minutes. And once again it is ranked. It is not draft. It should be taken seriously in my opinion. So a person should be able to focus for 30 minutes on serious game. If they cant do that then I dont think they should be playing ranked. Just play draft. So if the worst that happens is a group of players has to play a 30 minute game out...then that is less worse to me than people loses LP in winnable games because it was prematurely ff'd on As for the mastery level on champions...fair. I agree it would introduce other problems. But I do think there is value into somehow enforcing a rule where players cant just play champions they dont play
Skorpio (NA)
: The mastery thing is stupid and should/will never happen. You need x amount of champions (20 now?) to queue for ranked due to picks and bans. Do you have that many level 7 champions? You've stayed you're a one trick, so doubt it. Or what if someone wants you to first pick for them, you would need to have this champion level 7 to pick. The game doesn't know if you're trading or not. I don't play Pyke but right now I can first pick him if requested.
> [{quoted}](name=Skorpio,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-07T17:40:13.899+0000) > > The mastery thing is stupid and should/will never happen. You need x amount of champions (20 now?) to queue for ranked due to picks and bans. Do you have that many level 7 champions? You've stayed you're a one trick, so doubt it. Or what if someone wants you to first pick for them, you would need to have this champion level 7 to pick. The game doesn't know if you're trading or not. I don't play Pyke but right now I can first pick him if requested. Good point on the first pick thing. And it doesnt have to be M7. I just think some sort of restriction. Like maybe you have to have at least 20k on a champ. Something like this. Just something to prevent people from playing ranked on a champ they never play and dont know how to use
: Its a free online video game. I practice new champs in anked. Ranked is no different than anything else. Stupud idea, and will never happen. Oh and if not being able to surender is removed, which is also dumvb, I'll get on my bronze account and farm 100 kills a game and never push. Real fun for the enemy huh, especially when theyll get in trouble if they leave
> [{quoted}](name=nadekohecate,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OAnwBRI3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-07T17:11:24.408+0000) > > Its a free online video game. I practice new champs in anked. Ranked is no different than anything else. Stupud idea, and will never happen. > > Oh and if not being able to surender is removed, which is also dumvb, I'll get on my bronze account and farm 100 kills a game and never push. Real fun for the enemy huh, especially when theyll get in trouble if they leave if you have this mentality then just play draft. That is the point I am making. Ranked might as well be draft if there are no restrictions on it.
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Ok Azir

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