: Caitlyn's range advantage is only temporary for when she hits someone with her net or someone steps on her trap. The only people who situationally outrange Jinx are Kog'Maw with his W active, Twitch his his R active and the aforementioned Caitlyn. With her rockets activated, Jinx has a permanent range of 700, 50 higher than Caitlyn and 39 higher than Tristana (at level 18). Only Kindred has a higher range at 750 (with 25 stacks which is very unlikely to occur over the course of the game). It's a combination of her entire kit that makes her strong. You can make this argument about anyone. You could remove Garen's W and he'd be mediocre at most. If killing her was as easily as people are making it out to be then her win rate simply wouldn't be this high.
Caitlyn range is temporary but if you use your trap and snare effectively, it is more than enough. When team fight broke out, you don't need half an hour to finish the fight anyway. When Twitch activates his R, he will either kill the entire team or died during his ult. I have never seen a Twitch that run out of ult before the fight end. I already stated the reason why Jinx passive makes her strong. What is this rambling nonsense about it could apply to anyone? As for Garen, he IS a mediocre pick, removes W does make him fall down but not as hard as Jinx whose passive contribute a lot more compared to the rest of her kit. Heck, remove the rest of her kit but make her passive permanent, combine it with minigun passive and she would be one of the most broken OP pick. This is like Machine gun Gnar back when he got 5.0 attack speed, except that this time he has both damage and move speed..
: She has the highest permanent range of all ADC's meaning she's least likely to be in range of getting in danger out of all ADC's. She also has her traps to make getting to her harder and also has a support to make killing her as difficult as possible.
Bruh, "Highest permanent range of all ADC"? Caitlyn has 125 more range than jinx and if you count Cait passive, she gets up to 1300. Her trap is easier to counter than Caitlyn, any mage or assassin can do it. If you want support to help, you need to be alive first instead of getting burst down by assassin and mage. Anyway, the range does contribute to her safety but any champion that excels at picking can cover it very quickly. It wasn't the range that makes her strong, it was the combination of range and bonus move speed/attack speed from passive that makes her strong. Without that passive, she is mediocre at most.
: But Jinx isn't affected significantly more than other ADC's by this item. Caitlyn, Xayah, Tristana etc. are also effected by this item, but you wouldn't say their late games are necessarily weak either.
But see here: Jinx has no escape while all the other does. So if she got in a situation where she can't peel off the pursuer, she is dead meat.
: > [{quoted}](name=Deathhawk888,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RY407bkl,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-13T03:09:02.052+0000) > > People are mad that Aatrox is getting his revive removed because it was “part of his core identity.” But is it really? Oldtrox’s revive was terrible. You’d have to rack up hits to activate his revive for a short amount of time, and even then, most of the time you would just sit there and die 2 seconds later. What made Aatrox unique was his lifesteal, which they’re buffing. He went from a lifesteal dueler to a drain tank. They’re keeping what made him stand out as Darkin: tons of lifesteal like Rhaast. Aatrox's lifesteal becomes irrelevant a single opponent in the team builds grievous wounds. Then he just becomes a squishier, less mobile Riven since all his survival is tied to his self healing and GW is so freely available.
It doesn't matter when his heal is so over the cap it doesn't matter. If you have a HP bar of 2000 and you heal for 3000, 50% of that got negate by grievous is still a 1500 which is more than enough to negate all your team dmg. How do you get 3000? well, 400ad x (70%selfheal on ult + 30% items life steal) x land on 3-5 enemies= 1200-2000 x 3Q land= 3600-6000 heal. Darius heal on missing health doesn't even come close to this.
: Yeah, for sure. When a champ's "identity" is tied to a poorly balanced gimmick, the gimmick's better off removed. It's partially okay on Anivia, who's ranged, but on a caster-fighter, it made just as little sense as when he was entirely melee.
Anivia skill shot cc can be dodge because it so slow. She is also a mage which make her incredibly squishy which make her mistake easier to exploit. She is a mage so her auto attack do almost no dmg if her ability run out. Aatrox is a Bruiser so he is tankier. He got a kit with low cd so his mistake is harder to exploit. He also has a lot of life steal to sustain a 1 vs 1 fight. Since he is Ad, he can use his basic attack to keep the dmg going instead of being useless bitch. Anivia if caught out is a dead bird, her egg won't save her most of the time. Aatrox is kinda deceiving, you thought that you caught him with his pant down but it is exactly the opposite. He can then go on a Pentakill because his kit scale on how many people he land his skill shot on. If you can't kill him before he negate your dmg with his insane healing, then your team is toasted.
: {{champion:75}} what {{champion:19}} are{{champion:77}} you {{champion:2}} talking {{champion:420}} about{{champion:56}}
The life steal of those guy aren't even close to what Aatrox get. I am talking about 1 Q full health on each cast when he is in ult. Even Darius can't heal that much with his Q.
: Tahm needs to be changed, and not nerfed/buffed. Right now he has super strong early, and worthless late. But yea currently juggernauts and some mages are the tanks, and real tanks are just dead weight. Unless enemy is seriously stupid they are worthless.
The thing about pure Tank is just that giving them any role will effectively kill other classes. Give them CC and it will be a better Support class, give the damage and they basically become a better Bruiser/Juggernaut. This is why we end up with Tahm, A tank with only one feature :"Hard to kill". It is kind of hard to add any feature to the class with "hard to kill" feature. This is why I propose to have Tank items become the most expensive if they want to bought it back.
: He means, that LCS is like 0,00001% of the players. And "high elo" Is like 5%. The devs should consider the professionals as primary source of information. It's like removing the right to vote from anyone who doesn't make at least 10000 euro a month. How much of the population could vote then in Europe? The primary problem with the idea of tanking is that you can't. In order to make your survival worth anything you need to give a reason to attack you. Look at lategame Tahm. Even in Gold2 team understands, that he is a tank. Focusing him is a bad idea unless he is alone. So they just ignore him until he is the last enemy, then kill 1v5. There is no reason to attack him, because he has minimal impact. No AOE CC, no extreme CC. I know he can eat a champ, but while it gives a short CC it also protects the target from any other harm. No big damage, and no matter how much AP you buy his damage stays low.
> The primary problem with the idea of tanking is that you can't. In order to make your survival worth anything you need to give a reason to attack you. Look at lategame Tahm. Even in Gold2 team understands, that he is a tank. Focusing him is a bad idea unless he is alone. So they just ignore him until he is the last enemy, then kill 1v5. There is no reason to attack him, because he has minimal impact. No AOE CC, no extreme CC. I know he can eat a champ, but while it gives a short CC it also protects the target from any other harm. No big damage, and no matter how much AP you buy his damage stays low. All of your points about Tanking seem to point toward the current Bruiser and Juggernaut isn't it? I mean, since these two classes can be an effective front line without being too over powered, then it is fine to call them as "tank" for now. However, if Riot want the old Tank to come back to League, then they better make it so that Tank items would be the most expensive and ramp up more slowly than other dmg item option. Picking Tahm to say the Tank is weak and need buff is kind of a wrong way to put it. Tahm isn't even a tank during Tank meta. You need to compare a Tank kit that were viable in the past and theorize what happen if it get back one of it feature into the current meta. For example, Maokai was an OP pick tank in the past, pick "Tanky that need 5 people to kill" feature of a tank and see if it work in the current meta. Yea no, the Tank items are too cheap, Turret dmg still does not prevent 2 "non tank" champions from diving and get a kill, squishy still get pop by everyone in 1 vs 1. All of these problems will need to be address if they want tank to come back because these are some of the problems that will get amplify when Tank do come back (Tank can do all of that with ease). I still haven't touch on Rammus and Thorn mail mechanic (brain dead mechanic I know that will be ridiculous if buffed). All in all, the idea of "Tank" doesn't necessary to be "The one that took 5 players to kill". Anyone that can stay on front line without dying less than 5 seconds are enough to be called a tank. That and I don't want to promote brain dead mechanic (what is so good about being unkillable, not worry about dodging skill shot and spam skill?)
: Rewards For Doing Badly > Rewards For Doing Well
It is a risk though. Since everyone is fighting each other randomly, it is hard to know how much HP you will lose next time. It is risk and reward play that may or may not kill you. Making "Losing" as a viable strategy make it so that dumping every gold you have is not the only strategy to go for and more about saving gold for that interest and secure more chance at winning the game. If you think about it, there is nothing so strategic about brainlessly use gold at all. Remove the reward for losing encourage brainlessly spend gold which also remove the "interest" gold gain mechanic since a lose will snowball into a lost. Also, it is not like going on a win streak is bad either: You get more hp so that you can afford a few lost in late game which you will not get if you use "intentional losing strat", The lose streak gold (2g) also is lower than the high streak gold (4g).
Miwie (NA)
: People barely use wards anyways. When I play any role or specifically lee sin. My vision score is hella high. I be a lee sin with 70 wards+ in 30-40 min or a vayne that has 35 vision score at 20 min. PRobably just me but I see too many people with 2/2 yellow ward.
> [{quoted}](name=Sporky,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aIELLikR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-11T20:13:07.023+0000) > > People barely use wards anyways. When I play any role or specifically lee sin. My vision score is hella high. I be a lee sin with 70 wards+ in 30-40 min or a vayne that has 35 vision score at 20 min. PRobably just me but I see too many people with 2/2 yellow ward. You are playing in the Bronze elo.
Nea104 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=PolarEclipse,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5fhHwER5,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T01:57:23.877+0000) > > I just want to chime in and say that braum had 53% winrate in LCS spring, but clearly we're going to ignore that. And the fact that the top 5 braum mains all have winrates ranging from 51-56%? * LCS is **not** League of Legends, and actually it's one of the main factors why this game has gone downhill more and more. See **Tahm**. * Besides that, you're really considering 5 (five) Korean OTPs to evaluate the **overall state** of the game? Oh my. * Finally, looking at other top OTP supports, I see that Thresh and Morgana (eg.) ones have a **higher** WR. Crazy, uh? This has been one of the most absurd biased attempts to call the current state of the game a "tank meta". Congrats :D
"LCS is not League of Legends" - Wat? Bruh, it is literally League of Legends on high Elo. - LCS is an entire tournament from different group playing together, not just 5 korean dude. - There are much more that contribute to higher WR. For example, a champ with low pick rate have a high chance that those who are playing them is one trick which then lead to a higher win rate. There are also unseen mechanic that easy to access without knowing which also contribute to higher winrate. Maybe some pro is bored and quit for sometime then come back with their account MMR lowered and they went on win streak. This is why WR is kind of deceiving and cannot be used as a solid evidence. - As for the Tank meta bias thing, this video give you all you need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyVzs8IcYgo&t=1309s This is a tank that deal normal dmg and is a true definition of tank. The thing about tank is that it is too safe: you get to build cheaper items, you are not easy to kill while also have high impact in team fight, can solo basically everyone in 1 vs 1 without being pop by assassin. You are literally doing everything better than an ADC who have to take a lot of risk when building 6 dmg items at a higher cost. What is so hard about building so tanky you basically have no need to dodge skill shot and spam every skill like a brain dead Rekneton?
: "NoY fUn tO pLaY aGaInst"
I know what Zoe do but she still suck to play against.
: > [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6KgEfiwy,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T20:00:16.933+0000) > > Ahem, I care about the fairness of the game. My feelings are not hurt. > > Anyway, camping is fine but to an extent. If you camp to where a person actually quits the game, that's unsportsmanlike conduct to me. All fair in love and war... As long as there is no trash talking apparently XD If someone knows they are constantly being camped, they should have adapted accordingly. You either adapt or die like nature intended. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
I agree. It is the same as double top lane match. I met both kind of people: the one who just rage and cry to the entire team and the one who adapt. Really, just adapt bruh. You called for that lane so it is your responsibility to deal with all kind of shenanigan the other team thrown.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pastakill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MAgU5oOj,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-09T08:00:49.781+0000) > > well, someone still has to be in front line to "tank" all the dmg though. A team without someone to "tank" all the dmg still get rolled over by someone who does. But if the tank is worthless, then it just gets ignored until it's the last man standing. At least by a good team. So real "tanks" are the bruisers who gets defense from offense stats, or can simply become invulnerable for long period. Hecarim, Darius, Diana, Riven, Jax are far better for "tanking" the enemy, than Rammus. And that is quite a problem.
If the bruiser can take that job, then so be it. The concept of Tank doesn't have to be one who take an entire team to beat and that's fine. By design, there are no rule that state that the game have to have that kind of Tank to be fun. To me, anyone who can step on front line and not die in one second is a fine enough to rule them as a "tank". If Riot decide to bring tank back though then everyone should at least have some form of escape in their kit like Ez so that when they see Tank, they can at least can run away instead of having a 30s fight that they know they will die anyway. In the old tank meta, Tank were allowed to have everything: From damage, cc, unlimited tower dive potential to mobility, health, resistance and cheaper item so that even if you win vs him in lane, he still gonna beat your ass in mid to late game. Those were good day for people who doesn't like to dodge every skill shot and just head butt and spam every thing they have in the entire team without thinking. Glass cannon builds are risky and useless while safe tank builds are cheaper and infinitely more useful. Those were the Tank meta features.
: Sad truth is despite all of those things, adcs can still out damage mages, even when the tank focuses on building armor and the adc neglects lord dom.
: Why are tanks the only role without a high impact item?
Because being a tank doesn't mean you kill people, you are just an extra barrier to protect your carry and barrier shouldn't exist for too long.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Hm no they aren't, stop trying to point out a "strongest class" because this just isn't the case atm, we have a lot of champions from a lot of classes being played However just like someone pointed out before, tankiness is garbage, the only reason tanks are relevant sometimes are because of insane damage (tahm kench hello) tankiness is still garbage and thaminatrix is right, adc without LW is still outdamaging mage with void staff **against tanks**, doesn't mean mages are weak
well, someone still has to be in front line to "tank" all the dmg though. A team without someone to "tank" all the dmg still get rolled over by someone who does.
Yets4240 (NA)
: How the fuck do you get that all tanks are like Tahm, when literally not a single other one is, and at no point, even during S5 Cinderhulk top hypertank META (which ironically favored Shyvana, who is a juggernaut over all actual tanks) aka the only tank META League has ever seen, were there tank lanebullies like Tahm. In fact, the juggernaut champions (weren't technically juggernauts yet, as the juggernaut patch 5.21 is what ended the hypertank meta anyway) were still the lane bullies in top lane, and the tanks won by being strong and useful in the lane (but not bullying or being oppressive) but then were simply vastly more useful in teamfights so they outscaled other picks (except for juggernauts). Tahm currently plays vastly more like a juggernaut than a tank anyway.
This is a footage of Tank Karma 2 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyVzs8IcYgo Tank weren't simply a strong team fight. Tank WERE the TEAM. You don't need an entire team to mow down a team without Tank. That is the Tank meta. Also, if your team have tank but that tank is not an OP shit tank like Maokai, you still get rekt. The argument during tank meta is: Why should I build as a glass cannon while the guy who has cheaper items, more hp/resistance,infinite tower dive potential, have CC in his kit doing a better job than me?
Fëalnort (EUW)
: The reason tahm is toxic to play against it not because he is a tank. It is because he is a tank with a passif than nullify 80% of the dmg dealt to him, that has a second health bar, can slow , cc, poke your from distance without mana issues and can still deal 80% of your hp into one single burst at the slightest mistake. Seems Fair, no ?
Let talk about other tank when they are in tank meta then: maokai Nuliffy all your dmg even better than Tahm while having a click stun, a slow and a root while also deal dmg. Tank Karma has a root, a shield and a heal base on missing health that is also better than Tahm all while also deal a lot of dmg. Tank Fizz, an invulnable mther fker with a lot of mobility who is also has enough burst to make adc not matter. Tank Ekko, one that have worse nullify than Tahm but make it up for a team wide stun and mobility that is impossible to escape from. Tahm wasn't that good as a tank compare to other tank during Tank meta, just imagine that. The tank meta literally remove both Adc and Assasin out of the game. the only exception are those who build specifically to counter Tank like Vayne and that's it. This is a footage of Tank Karma 2 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyVzs8IcYgo
: Exactly. Yet people downvoted me thinking they are overpowered. The only tank that is overpowered right now is Tahm.
Because If you dislike playing vs Tahm right now, then why do you advocate for tank meta to come back? I rather have Juggernaut as tank than a Tank meta where everybody is another version of Tahm.
: > [{quoted}](name=DaenrysTargaryen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jqZcRpHB,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2019-07-06T06:04:41.215+0000) > > Voting has been disabled due to vote manipulation. is there proof of vote manipulation?
> [{quoted}](name=Chewy Candy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jqZcRpHB,comment-id=001c000f,timestamp=2019-07-07T07:08:30.452+0000) > > is there proof of vote manipulation? There shouldn't be. This thread just started like 1 day ago.
: What's the most evil thing you've done to win a game?
feast on the other team jgler in their jg.
KazKaz (OCE)
: Yeah, I also main Kat and I have to disagree with Taco. Yasuo is an absolute boon to face, especially for Kat. Honestly the fact he has near infinite mobility, a low cooldown burst ability (that nukes with Conqueror), a fast auto animation, a shield, a Windwall that stops ALL projectiles and has a full 360 hitbox AND the fact he benefits so well from Precision runes makes him incredibly unfun to face. The entire laning phase for Kat is pretty much reliant on the Yasuo being a first timer on the champ and not knowing that his keyboard exists.
That near infinite mobility only happen in lane or in jg. The river, where the team fight over objective usually happen, only have one crab (which usually end up dead before you get to use it). Yasuo early damage is strong because he counter you, that's what "Counter" mean. Vs any of his counter and he will literally say the same. He is also strong because he got good wave clear, this get less useful the higher the elo that you play. Let's not forget about the fact that he is very easy to die to a CC gank. This is why his pick in high elo is quite bad, he just can't afford to play vs his counter because if he does, he will get abuse the hell out of it and become easy feed. At low elo, he is even worse than some god tier pick like Kat, who can delete the whole team while get out alive. This is why I don't understand why you complain about Yasuo in general.
Tailypo (NA)
: Yeah his early game is ridiculous. He's all but guaranteed FB against a mage that doesnt hide under the tower (and away from minions). Why is his early game damage so high???
That's what you get when someone counter you. That is the definition of "counter".
: I hate that the report sysytem is automated. If i run into a seriously toxic player I send a ticket. I don't trust those god damn machines. >:(
> [{quoted}](name=AMADEUSdotEXE,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Kt12rR7A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-02T04:50:01.924+0000) > > I hate that the report sysytem is automated. If i run into a seriously toxic player I send a ticket. I don't trust those god damn machines. >:( The problem is out of those ticket, there are probably 1000 times or more that are probably fake, sending from salty player who doesn't give a fk about what the system does. Shorting those out is likely to take age when reading individually.
coreym11 (NA)
: Bot lane is literally a bullet hell shooter
I thought it was a tea party where nobody is invited but everyone come.
: but his hook has a delay, rengar can jump on you and kill you by the time the hook flies
Good Thresh don't wait until Rengar jump, Good Thresh predict Q base on whoever has the indicator. The flay is a back up plan in case they fail predict the hook.
: what's the difference? lol
It is the difference between Rengar getting hook out of his ult by Thresh or not.
: I just played vs someone who got 5 items on the minions stage at the start
2hp and thought to myself "this is over". Immediately kill 5 wolfs, get 5 items after, follow by an epic come back thanks to instant 2 zep and 1 rage blade. my last chat was: GG EZ Git gud.
: That's fine, but we're talking about a single champion invalidating a whole class; not one class countering another. Personally, I don't have too much issue with Yasuo, but he is OTT. Being strong early and transitioning into a hyper-carry should be illegal.
I talk about general because that is short and easier to understand instead of listing out every possible champion. If I list it out, it would look like this: Irelia counter all squishy. Talon counter all squishy. Riven counter all squishy. Fizz counter all squishy. Any mage counter all squishy. Yasuo counter all mage.(this is specific because squishy like adc can actually kill yasuo with their individual skill and high dmg auto attack.) If you look at all the champ above, only yasuo does not 100% counter all squishy. This is because Yasuo heavily rely on minion wave and team support to actually be an effective champ while the other can just do full combo at anywhere at any given time and still able to kill squishy. He isn't strong early game. The reason why you feel that way is because he counter your pick which is what it should be like as a "Counter". Put him vs any of his counter and you should get a similar result. He is also very susceptible to most cc gank. Ask any Yasuo main and they will say that the bane of their existence is jgler.
: QSS isn't free and tends to make builds awkward that's gold you're behind and it forces you to take it while mordekaiser still has all the power of the rest of his kit. even if it delays you for a quarter of a second, that's a quarter second you weren't helping your team
let be honest here: Morde ult deal no dmg. the rest of his kit doesn't help if his enemy can kill him 1 vs 1. Adc can kite, support can run, fighter just straight up murder him by out dps with trinity force and all of these guy have ult that will favor them one way or the other. If Morde can kill you while he ult you, Qss is just an alternative option to go for if all other option is not possible. Kinda underwhelming isn't it?
: I mean... is it really healthy for a champ to invalid a whole class?
Mage invalid the whole adc class. Assasin invalid the whole squishy class. Tank invalid the whole assasin class. Adc+Enchanter late game > every other class. You see it now? Put Yasuo vs Darius and Darius will make Yasuo become Trashsuo
: Morde sitting at 70% ban rate, 13% pick rate, and 56% WR even with 0 expereince on him
No, N and O. He got that ridiculous stats due to 2 things: He is a Jugg so he is easy to play. He get new kit which mean people don't know how to play vs him . In this dmg meta, it is even more impactful because snowball is quite easy and he is top laner. People thought that it was because he is broken but to be honest, he is one of those win lane lose game champ. Some champ have build that literally beat him straight up.
Verxint (NA)
: It's been said a few times in the thread that it's just fucking boring and tedious to play correctly against it.
yea well, and so are other champion that counter the champion you play. The reason why you feel it toward Yasuo is because his pick rate is high and he counter an entire mage archetype.
Antenora (EUW)
: As a 700k Sona myself I think she's pretty OP and could do with a small nerf. I do think there are champions who should be higher priority for nerfs than Sona though - {{champion:222}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:15}} in particular. Nerf Sona -> Nami becomes the new Sona -> Nami gets nerfed -> Janna takes over Everyone knows how fun it is to play a Bruiser/Assassin or low range Mage/Marksman when Janna is meta.   If I was going to nerf Sona, I'd hit her with nerfs directed at making {{champion:37}} {{champion:44}} / {{champion:37}} {{champion:555}} significantly weaker without impacting her proper playstyle as Support Sona.   **I'd rather have Sona be the best Support in the game than something like {{champion:99}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} . At least if you hook/stun a Sona she will die.** Sona Taric / Sona Pyke is oppressive and unfun to play against, Direct any nerfs towards hitting those play styles.
As a sona main, I said that everything you say is completely bullshit and we should do the opposite
Hvsao (NA)
: If you complain about Morde's grab, you've clearly not been introduced to the idea of side stepping because that grab takes an eternity in its animation. You dont even need a dash, just perpendicular to the ability and it almost never hits. IF you have a dash, that's even better.
: >Morde is Fundamentally Broken, and Riot will not be able to balance him with his current kit Nah, just some number nerfs and he'll be fine
iV0lt4GE (EUW)
: @Critmaster Garen, no cause the ult is a suppression (Like the Malz ult) and Cleanse can't cleanse suppressions. @Saezio, Same as for Cleanse, can't remove suppression.
I don't know but there is this guy who try Qss on Mord ult and it work.
: i'm more worried about the kit in general. If he is even remotely viable, he will be great in competitive because he offers displacement(in two different ways) along with having a lot to offer in his kit (lane bully, wave clear, durability and I forget what else now )
Neriticc (EUW)
: Irelia nerfed 50 times, still highest ban rate in pro leagues globally.
A normal Irelia is pretty good and a good Irelia is terrifying. A good Irelia will 1 vs 5 the entire team without the other 4 monkey helping her even a little bit.
: {{champion:99}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:143}} They do already out perform Brand. If you dont know this you dont play support much. By the terms of your name you sound more top if anything.
ye, that's what I am saying, why down vote me?
: PSA: Mordekaiser has a very simple HARD COUNTER; This is how you beat him, as a laner OR jungler
Fun fact: Qss and any kind of CC removal will get you out of Mord's ult
: Well the solution is not going against hard counter, or have the jungler as premade. Neve played Kayle, but if this is true, then she might use a bit help in early game, or my other suggestion could solve it. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/H0xzgt7k-buffing-turret-options
She can't lane at all at the moment. I am talking about the fact that against any decent top lane pick, if she isn't in her turret range, she is dead in all situation. In the Jg, she is a bit better but her clear is horrible... it feel like Vayne jg.
: > 8 seconds is a short cooldown? Low mana cost? She starts with 330 mana. One Q is 70, one E is 50. If she's using it off cooldown to farm she's gonna run out. Yes, 8 is short, 50 is low, especially w/ how she's built. Don't spam it off CD? > > Also the base damage is awful, it scales up based on missing health... She uses E to last hit key minions and get klepto procs, the fact it does negligible damage to healthy targets is a weird point to bring up. > > ... being used to farm but then you say Ekko doesn't count because he's using his abilities to farm (and harass, ideally)? > > Those aren't even all the melee champs with ranged abilities, I just listed a few (and I notice you ignored Irelia completely). Irelia is worse, doesn't her linear stun start off at ~20s CD? Would be surprised if it could qualify as a proper nuke. Ekko is like Diana. They both are melee, but have avenues to farm safely from ranged. Poppy's shield starts at 16s at level 1, static CD. etc... > Her early game is god awful, she starts out and ends up with less base armor than Soraka. Abuse it. She has a lot of sustain. Corrupting > Dark seal on back, klepto items, maybe some Doran's, can sparingly use her W, lots of staying power. I agree her early is awful, she sucks until level 11, but she has the tools to totally ignore the game as she AFKs to relevancy and hopes forcing her team to 4v5 for 20 minutes works out. It seems to work out often enough as you need a pretty big lead to not lose against a team w/ a Kayle who has gone online. [Her WR/Game Time is essentially a _r_, breaking even around the 20 minute mark, w/ an overall WR of about 52%.](https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Kayle/) (~51.5% U.GG)
If she even come out of turret range, I can kill her as a lv 3 malph with no item easily (she had Klepto). She literally can't stay behind minion wave at all vs any decent top lane pick.
: Yasuo's Early Game is Too Good
The only reason why he feel OP is because he counter pick vs specific champ archetype AKA mage. Seriously, if his early game is strong because he is your counter pick... what's the problem?
: {{champion:67}} Her q means she can ignore my slows and dodge my skillshots, her W invalidates my ability to tank, her E is a point and click knockback which I have no counterplay to aside from making sure I collide with a wall so I take the stun instead of the knockback. (stun is reduced by tenacity)
I play vs a good Vayne top before, Nasus just beat her at lv 6 with his godly item build path and repeat slow CC/Dcane ultimate. I think they overbuff Nasus.
: {{item:3303}} Because this item is overpowered.
pfft, any other damage ap support can do better than him.
: Those aren't 'external reasons' - they're excuses to place blame on. "Oh that guy did bad I guess matchmaking sucks" is a nice scapegoat, but the reality is he probably just HAD A BAD GAME. Or "Oh he was facing a smurf so of course he did bad" when I see a lot of people who are self-proclaimed smurfs do awful. Accept the reality: We all have amazing games and we all have awful games. That's why games are unpredictable.
And that's why it is fun. A predictable game with a predictable out come is not fun by any mean.
: These Are The Reasons That Games becomes Coinflips.
If u become the challenger then smurf in low elo yourself, you don't need to rely on this coin flip *mind blow*
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Pastakill

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