anatasjhsh01
(EUW)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=anatasjhsh01,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LviQuYGt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-16T13:59:15.314+0000)
>
> Same goes for jungle, mid and top not much
> Bot lane is not at its best not even close
> And it feels like cancer to play it.
>
> Remember this is assassins and bruisers meta.
ADCs are still meta.
What drugs are you smoking.
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GrandOctopus
(NA)
Change the map to 6v6.
2 players in the top lane would hold equal weight to bot lane.
Mid would get more weight since now there are two lanes to roam to(that have impact)
Jungle would get more weight since ganking top wouldnt be useless.
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Crystalysk
(EUW)
> [{quoted}](name=Crystalysk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9EZEdsMi,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-09-14T12:44:28.427+0000)
>
> Eve is extremely bad if your team is bad. You can't stop people invading you and the enemy team always collapse first, give up all scuttles and can't 1v1 meta champions pre 6.
>
> Lee Sin is good because he is a strong 1v1 duelist even pre 6 but at the end of the day both of them are extremely bad at 1v5 so if the enemy team groups early, which it should be the case if they are winning lanes, then you can just watch them end the game when you can actually do almost nothing except maybe trading your life for one of them if you are lucky, but then if your team is bad it straight loses the 4v4 anyway.
The point is that they can impact losing lanes because of how effective their early game is.
Whereas no other junglers can do anything about losing lanes, or unaware laners, except watch them lose, and as a result-lose themselves.
Maybe not Eve, idk if her buffs came with this patch or the upcoming patch-but once those buffs hit, she'l be there with Lee, if she isnt already.
or, maybe just Lee, in which case. Thats why noone wants to jungle, because Lee is the ONLY viable solo que jungler.
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Aurillius
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
impossible to answer.
There are the micro-intense champions who are the hardest to play on your keyboard.
But generally those champions run mechanical circles around other champions, and have a hyperoverloaded advantage.
So while theyre hard to play on the keyboard, theyre easy to play in the sense that they are outright a BETTER champion.
So you could say..things like Lee, Riven, Kat, etc etc etc.
But while something like, Leona or Nocturne are very easy to play from a mechanical perspective, they are so mechanically disadvantaged that you have to approach everything entirely differently from how a overloaded champion would approach things. you need more awareness and more understanding because you have zero mechanics to save you from a mistake.
So really, what champions are hardest/easiest, is going to come down to what your personal strengths and weaknesses are when it comes to League.
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BLACK REALM GOD
(NA)
There are only like two jungle champion options that have impact in the event that their laners are terrible.
Laners are usually horrible, so unless youre playing Lee or Eve, its likely youre going to have a really bad time.
So people dont really play the role right now.
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Jennifer420
(EUW)
PhearBunny
(NA)
No assassin can duel Kaisa.
She has assassin-like burst.
Assassin-like slipperiness/mobility.
So she basically is in an assassin vs assassin situation, the only difference being she gets a massive barrier for some stupid ass reason.
Oh and that she builds Zhonyas and GA and still does obsurd amounts of damage and burst.
Shed be a reasonable champion if they removed her barrier and replaced it with something that doesnt completely hard counter her counter-class, but Riot is stupid and thinks Kaisa needs a S+ tier response to every possible scenario.
Oh and she has a baby sitter on top of everything.
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HateDaddy
(NA)
because, modernized champions are meant to have no weaknessess and be incredibly overloaded.
That has been Riots approach for a few years now.
Make everything hyperoverloaded, because if everyone is broken, no-one is broken.
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AlterMordred
(EUNE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
Good news, top lane doesnt matter.
So noone cares if you get a countermatchup, as long as you fit cohesively into a team composition.
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EOWIDE MEMEGOD
(EUW)
PhearBunny
(NA)
imagine being this dumb
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LegendWizard08
(EUNE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=LegendWizard08,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fAZp0czf,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-09-13T13:28:34.506+0000)
>
> Also she has no ad scaling so warrior is socuseless on her if you go leona jg it would be tanky jg item and tank may be triforce and titanic hydra and you need tiamat I think but its useless anyways
Her 5s CD(without CDR) AA reset is essentially the same as being attack speed capped, which makes Warrior by far the best choice. But what do i know.
Also Cinderhulk is terrible.
AA>Q>AA with Warrior is significant damage output.
and its basically spammable, which is why she benefits from AD over AP.
Warrior+Gauntlet if youre underfarmed- is all the damage you need.
Warrior+Trinity force if youre doing well.
after that just go supportive tank items, or pure tank items.
Titanic hydra is too expensive to go for after Trinity, unless youre extremely fed. In which case, go for it.
But the ideal, realistic build for jungle Leo is..
Warrior
Boots of Mobility(Interchangable if needed)
Sheen>into Gauntlet or Triforce.
Deadmans Plate.
last two item slots are extremely flexible.
Leona deals relevent damage with one or two AD items.
Whereas with AP she would need an entire AP build to deal relevent damage. Which is never going to happen.
Going Warrior allows you to be dangerous AND a tank.
Going pure tank just allows you to be a ignorable tank.
Going AP doesnt allow you to do anything but feed. Until you have 700AP, by which the game is alrdy over 20mins ago.
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double0sanic
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
AP kog is fine as far as lane phase goes.
But eventually you fall off the whole planet and cost your team the match.
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AR URF
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
{{champion:89}} her recent buffs made her a very viable jungler, if youre looking for a new tank choice.
Core build being Warrior enchant>Mobis>Deadmans plate
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Silent Zephyros
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
Listen mang, you cant be afraid to oppress Trynd at level1 before he ever even touches a minion for Rage.
Every time he comes in for a minion, beat the piss out of him.
Force him to use that rage to heal so he cant all-in you with a full rage bar.
If you dont oppress him at level1, he wins the lane by default.
If punishing him means u lose some CS, thats fine. Take that trade.
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Craft Zeppelin
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
Kaisa, ah yes. the ole long range, hyper mobile, hybrid ADC, tank, assassin, lady thing.
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VinnyTehG
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
yes u can play jungle Nasus.
Its just a late game jungler choice, which isnt preferred in the meta.
But its playable.
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Devil Demoko
(NA)
Tryndameres power budget is tuned around the fact that he doesnt really function in team comps, and as a result is overwhelmingly overpowered as an individual champion.
i dont like it, he is broken as shit. But it is what it is, if he was team comp compatible im sure theyd tone him down. But he's not.
Atleast not really.
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Barkley
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
nerf jarvan?
Jarvans only saving grace is his E giving a aura, and giving him assists.
Other than that, hes a unreliable, role confused peice of crap with serious mana issues.
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Jbels
(NA)
Lol. Why play a tank when Riven has 9000gold of tankiness on a 3second CD?
Why play a tank when Jax has legitimate damage immunity mechanics?
Why play a tank when you can play Ekko and just reset.
Tanks are outclassed by overloaded mechanics.
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AlterMordred
(EUNE)
i generally play an off-meta top laner(Nocturne), and have a really easy time with Cass.
Rush a tiamats>1 shot every wave with Q+Umbrablades+tiamats>go roam.
If Cass ever pushes passed the center of the lane, i can just ult her and unless her flash is up shes 100% dead.
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50CaliberHecate
(NA)
What kind of damaged brain do you need to think you should nerf DH because of Karthas?
Nerf Karthas if its a problem, jesus christ use your brain.
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Adequate Top
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=Adequate Top,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sZm9ywvi,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-09-06T22:06:58.157+0000)
>
> 25 damage on ult UNPLAYABLE GAME I'M QUITTING!
are u ignoring that they cut its cd in half and buffed all his base stats even though hes debatably already the best jungler in the game?
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Anatera
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=Anatera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sZm9ywvi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-05T15:34:10.871+0000)
>
> How is it? I haven't been keeping up because I want to avoid the queues and crowds. Pretty fun?
its great, can really tell its gonna stick too.
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PhearBunny
(NA)
Theyre buffing the crap out of him for worlds play reels.
disgraceful.
Cya Riot.
Classic WoW is way better anyways.
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Ephixus
(EUW)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=Ephixus,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9VoRfug2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-05T11:46:32.062+0000)
>
> You literally need ultra be like reaction to walk away from his ult, you sound so delusional, I highly doubt you just simply walking away from the ult.
Are u an out of position isolated squishy?
Odds are Nocturne is ulting you.
So when you get the "darkness", you have alot of time to start moving/walking, especially considering his ultimate has a considerable travel time, unless hes already right in your face.
As long as u arent playing at like 100+ ping it shouldnt be an issue for the average player.
Every ADC in the game has the tools to outplay Nocturne 1v1.
EVERY ADC.(Even though he's an assassin)
Im not entirely sure in regards to all mages since alot of the non-meta mages dont really see much play, but stopwatch/Zhonyas is a Nocturne ending counter item. Once this item is completed the target is no longer even a viable option for Nocturne to choose.
Some Noct players will run Glacial Augment and rush a BOTRK to compensate for how impossible it is to actually land his ultimate on a competent player. But his power budget is tuned around Lethal Tempo and Electrocute, so running Glacial Augment leaves you alot weaker than you should be.
But it allows you to function, kind of.
Hes a bad champion.
+1 yes, rework him.
He should have had priority over Pantheon.
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WandererYoshinon
(OCE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
Lemme give u a tip in regards to Nocturne.
His ult doesnt point and click deal damage like the tooltip says it does.
His ult empowers his next autoattack.
In otherwords, you can just walk away from him when he ults to you, and he wont be able to connect with that empowered auto, and hes going to die because he lacks the mobility to get to you, or outplay you.
Unless youre an underfarmed immobile ADC.
Emphasis on underfarmed, because Nocturne cant even duel isolated immobile ADCs that are reasonably farmed.
Nocturne is a very bad champion.
But i agree they both need reworks.
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Crocele
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
wh...whichever one you like more?...
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usul1202
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=usul1202,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r1WLbVzB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-04T14:01:48.395+0000)
>
> Classic is handing out bans for toxicity? Or is it just for griefing type stuff?
i may or may not have said alot of very nasty things in general chat. Maybe.
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Illabethe
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j4AsEmb8,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-31T18:04:07.620+0000)
>
> They are only components of a finished item..... and they are key to draking and farming..... Mana regen on Talisman is massive..... If you started with Dorans, most junglers couldn't survive nor clear.
>
> You should only be at Machete/Talisman the first 4 minutes of the game. Past that it builds into an item you KEEP. It is not something you SELL.
{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
hunters machete>Dorans blade....Because you don't sell the Machete at 30mins+?
K.
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Illabethe
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j4AsEmb8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-31T16:14:05.338+0000)
>
> No they don't?
>
> Laners: Doran's you have to sell at cut value.
> Jungler: Jungle equivalent of a finished item with much more utility, and in some cases better mods than the items they are based on (Cinderhulk vs Sunfire) for about 500g LESS. They also enhance Smite for combat
>
> I'm saying this as a jungler; Jungling is cheaper.
>
> The correct counterpoint: Pauses and irregularities in farmability, and late Scuttle Spawns. Lane CS is consistent. Jungle has serious pauses, and spawn patterns aren't the same for red/blue as other camps, so secondary clears are slower.
Yo when Machete and Talisman give combative stats, come back to me.
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Nhika
(NA)
they also have to waste gold on a bunch of useless jungle pieces, while you get to start buying useful things right out the gate.
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musixxal
(EUW)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=musixxal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pqZuO3J0,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-31T14:56:28.034+0000)
>
> and bottom and mid somehow lose despite no enemy jungle attention.
yeah boi, welcome to the dice roll of LoL.
to be fair, they have more pressure to die trying to make plays than a top laner does.
A top laner isnt pressured to do anything at all except hold 2 towers.
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Altiverse
(EUNE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
Top lane is for passive aggressive wimps that want to complain about losing, but dont want to have any responsibility for that loss.
So they go top, to play a irrelevent 1v1 while Bot and Mid lane decide if they're going to win or lose.
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mark6028
(EUW)
im just glad they are nudging Leona into the jungle finally.
So sick of needing to dedicate so many bans just to be able to play Leona as support.
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Trias000
(EUNE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
Guardians+Knights
Guardians+Noble.
Either one will do.
Morellos on Pantheon.
Thornmail+Dragon tooths wherever you can fit them.
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DBS Ronovon
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
Galio, because youre weak as shit and theres a 73% chance youre going to lose.
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JuiceBoxP
(EUNE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RNJRhFik,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-08-30T12:01:04.492+0000)
>
> Yeah, it's pretty crystal clear that she is destroys people in solo lanes
> with her <0.1 pickrate in every lane and sub 45% winrate.
>
> The games she won she pretty much got her ass carried.
prior to these buffs, yeah she was like a 45% winrate risk in the jungle.
Viable if you know what youre doing and experienced with it, but risky if youre opponents are playing godtier or A+tier champs AND are experienced on those champs, you would feel it.
But POST Q CD buff, shes a freaking monster.
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Nanuk Pihoqahiak
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=Nanuk Pihoqahiak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RNJRhFik,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:56:56.975+0000)
>
> She's super strange. If you ever solo lane her, she actually wrecks with Titanic / Trinity / Sho'jin, despite being balanced around being a support / ap.
In theory shes a good top laner, but top laners tend to outlane her with mobility and sustain so its kinda risky.
Shes just safer in the jungle because she doesnt have to compete with something like Renektons sustain forcing her out of lane over and over again. Im not opposed to picking her top, as long as youre picking her as a counter to something specific. But if you arent positive youre counterpicking someone, its really high risk to play her top.
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PhearBunny
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
1 second buff+45%CDR(Which is easy to hit)
gives the enemy 1second of downtime from being Q stunned(Unless they have tenacity).
Its a huge deal.
They buffed her in the wrong place.
She needed Zenith Blade buffs for her reliability.
Not this Q buff that transforms her into a perma Q stun Fighter thing.
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JuiceBoxP
(EUNE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RNJRhFik,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:40:55.259+0000)
>
> leona jungle is just a terrible, terrible idea.
clears 4seconds faster than Nocturne after these buffs.
Better pre-6 ganks than a Nocturne.
Better mid/late game presence than a Nocturne.
If shes better than Nocturne, shes atleast a B+ tier jungler.
theyre gonna have to revert this Q buff and buff something else, they made her too strong in her off-role as a jungler.
Nearly 100% stun uptime just on Q now, at level 1, she can duel a Leesin at lvl 2, and win.
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PhearBunny
(NA)
PhearBunny
(NA)
think about it.
Warrior 60AD.
AA>Q>AA = 60x3 in 1second.
Q on a 4second CD with blue+Warrior CDR.
so in 2 seconds after you stun them youre gonna AA>Q>AA them again for 60x3.
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JuiceBoxP
(EUNE)
PhearBunny
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RNJRhFik,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-30T11:32:04.206+0000)
>
> warrior enchantment on a champion that has ap scaling? interesting.
The purpose of Warrior on her is that her Q is such a short CD AA reset, that shes essentially attack speed capped at lvl1. Which really lets her capitalize and make the most out of AD.
AP builds on Leona require a Lichbane and atleast one pure AP item to have any agency whatsoever- So it doesnt work. If you go AP Leona, youre gonna have 8k gold when everyone else has 12k+ gold.
If you go AD(Warrior/Trinity) you dont have a ramp up time into relevance, youre always relevant and dangerous.
And it takes something like 400AP+ Lichbane for a AP Leona build to deal more damage than a AD Leona build.
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BBKong
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=BBKong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3kcZBhIy,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-28T23:37:02.784+0000)
>
> Noc is good right now, but they know his kit needs redesign and he was part of the poll for next reworks, but got beat by Volibear and Fiddle.
>
> His kit is serviceable and his winrate is good right now, like where are you getting this from besides your own experience being bad with him?
my Noc winrate is higher than the average winrate for Nocturne so, cant be that bad at him. Is it even possible to be bad at him. Dont project your own insecurities onto me homie.
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Pxerkza
(EUNE)
> [{quoted}](name=Pxerkza,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cgjJzOdx,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T15:06:06.931+0000)
>
> the difference being that the champions have the same play patterns
> so the skills between vayne and kindred aren't much different
>
> so it's not like im saying you should be playing sejuani when you like playing khazix
>
> you are free to go leona jungle all im saying is that zac and sejuani will outperform you without a monitor
Thats actually not true at all.
Sej and Zac tbh, arent any better than Leona, and they are way less flexible.
If what youre looking to do is be a raw pure tank, yeah Zac or Sej will fill that role better, but maybe thats not what i was looking to fill.
Leona is way more flexible than both of those champs in regards to itemization, playstyle, and role in a teamcomp.
I can play her from the jungle as...
AD fighter/Bruiser.
AD assassin.
Tank.
Support tank.
I can only play Zac and Sej as tanks.
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