: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 21
{{champion:37}} Timeline on when Sona will be reverted back to her original kit, the only successful iteration?
: Most assassins are heavily cooldown reliant and reliant on their ults and can't truely 1v3 even if gigafed. Some can when gigafed but most other classes can do it with ease when gigafed anyway.
Cause they totally can't take the Ultimate Hunter mastery & it's not like it's super easy for them to get 40 CDR on top of this. I mean, Rito only threw it onto damn near all of their items. Ultimate cooldowns don't matter anymore. They're up nearly as often as base abilities now.
: exactly and every question evolving around player behaviour or balance in the game was avoided and they just answered stupid questsions
> [{quoted}](name=RitoDayCare,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3yeEMZc,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-22T16:00:17.007+0000) > > exactly and every question evolving around player behaviour or balance in the game was avoided and they just answered stupid questsions Rito has **always** approached their Q&As in this manner. Intentionally avoiding meaningful inquiries & conversations and intentionally cherry picking softballs & blind praise. When players demanded Sona's 4.13 rework be reverted in the many months following, Rito was dead silent. As though the subject were taboo. Only when the sheer quantity of angry complaints reached the fever pitch of a deafening roar did Meddler finally respond. That response was filled only with obvious lies & blatant dismissal of customer discontent. In spite of that offense & his false propaganda, she received a 2nd rework soon after. Contrary to his false claims that she was "doing just fine."
: You know there's a section for rants right? Called Rant?
The Rant sub-Board is a joke. It was added as an attempted (and failed) placebo, as well as an excuse for mods to delete threads from Gameplay in their attempt of forcing onto it the horrid rules of their failed Gameplay+ sub-Board.
MarkoPsycho (EUNE)
: Is yummi useless ?
I would prefer her over Soraka or Sona, if that holds any merit on the subject matter.
: Champion question
Definitely Nami for sure.
: Riot Does NOT Care about YOU
I would upvote, but the mods disabled voting because Rito doesn't care about the Boards. Oh look, it just came full circle.
Meltys (EUW)
: Thay will revert it next patch and make spelltheif "most be near an ally" restriction. So we Sona mains will have to take a break and play some aram or something else in the meantime.
> [{quoted}](name=Meltys,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KqVGhUEb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-02-22T03:04:26.534+0000) > > Thay will revert it next patch and make spelltheif "most be near an ally" restriction. So we Sona mains will have to take a break and play some aram or something else in the meantime. Personally, I started playing FF 14 instead. Scholar class. It's like Sona, but not terrible. I'm not touching Sona again until the next rework.
: > [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zzAzRukm,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2020-02-21T22:48:16.048+0000) > > They will revert the hotfix nerfs next patch, but the mana thing is here to stay since they said it slightly buffed her support role. I hope you are right (though i think the mana thing is still a nerf to support Sona, even if Riot is going to claim different). I think that Nerf into hotfix (hours later) MORE NERFS was way to much.
> [{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zzAzRukm,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2020-02-21T23:26:56.819+0000) > > I hope you are right (though i think the mana thing is still a nerf to support Sona, even if Riot is going to claim different). I think that Nerf into hotfix (hours later) MORE NERFS was way to much. Oh it's most assuredly a nerf, you know as well as I what Rito says & the truth are usually at direct odds with each other. This forces either 1 of 2 things to occur: 1. You play Sona optimally, focus on positioning & staying safe, but you only tag allies ~60% of your casts & go OoM constantly. 2. You sit on your ADC like Yuumi. Unlike Yuumi, you aren't untargetable & your average deaths per game increase, because you abandoned positioning & safety to play Rito's forced "tag the ally" minigame. Regardless of the chosen path, this also changes which "runes" & items you'll take. Another indirect nerf caused by all of this.
: Is Riot using the PBE for its intended purpose?
> [{quoted}](name=2Charmnot2Charm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zNQtWb76,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2020-02-21T14:44:49.869+0000) > > As much as I would love the game to be balanced around players that know what they're doing (Masters-Challengers), Riot won't ever abandon their iron-silver players since that's where the majority of their income is from. I wish they cared enough about profits to care about about their playerbase. Rito only cares specifically about short-term profits only. Long-term profit can go take a dump, which is why they have been so insistent on intentionally losing customers. No, Rito doesn't balance around either low or high elo, because they just don't balance this game. A fact they've been willingly open about for a long time, at least since the "Balance Team" renamed their department to "Gameplay Design."
Profirix (NA)
: Riot, your balance approach has become really unhealthy for the game (Sona focused)
They won't compensate her. Sona is Rito's favorite punching bag & has been since Season 4. The last time I'm aware of Rito doing genuine balancing & a real trade-off was when they made multiple nerfs to her W in patch 3.8. She got a few extra points in HP & armor. Fast forward to 4.13 where they completely removed her W aura entirely. Instead of a compensation buff to her HP like they did in 3.8, they fucking **NERFED** her HP too, leaving her double-nerfed. Well, technically she received many many more than just 2 nerfs in 4.13, but that's aside the point.
: The purpose of PBE is for catching bugs, mainly the bugs that end up making the game 100% unplayable are fixed asap. Technically the PBE playerbase can be as big as the NA server since riot went ahead to make signing up for PBE as easy as making a new account (new accounts start with honor 2), but the majority of PBE players are wood tier players because they can use all the champs and skins for free. So using these guys to test balance changes is a horrible idea. It's how we ended up with 75%+ winrate Skarner after his Jug update, because Riot listened to those on PBE for once.
On the other hand, Rito doesn't listen to their players on the Live server either. They don't listen to Challenger & Master players. Hell, pro players aren't even allowed to have a voice if it isn't blindly praising Rito. It's safe to say Rito just won't listen to anybody.
YaraOwO (NA)
: She really does need a full rework. She has a kit that makes her either broken or garbage because its so old that you cant really balance it for the game now.
I agree she needs Sion-ing, but I think the "old kit" point is debatable. It was "designed" mid Season 6. Many many many champs have older kits: Caitlyn, Quinn, MF, Zed, Udyr, Ahri, Fizz, Nami. If I keep going, I would probably name 80% of the cast or more.
Powwer69 (NA)
: So back to my original topic, Riot ruined Sona and Soraka with the nerf this patch. As others have previously stated, not only did they make it impossible for innovation by restricting them solely to bot lane, they nerfed their support power as well. Something better could have been done, though I don't think a 56% win rate should be something people complain about enough for a champion to get destroyed.
> [{quoted}](name=Powwer69,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2020-02-21T03:29:12.190+0000) > > So back to my original topic, Riot ruined Sona and Soraka with the nerf this patch. As others have previously stated, not only did they make it impossible for innovation by restricting them solely to bot lane, they nerfed their support power as well. Something better could have been done, though I don't think a 56% win rate should be something people complain about enough for a champion to get destroyed. Oh, it's actually much worse than that. Rito just released a "hotfix" completely reverting the placebo buff to her E **AND** removed its AP scaling as well **AND** nerfed both her base AD and AD per lvl, again. She is literally weaker & more-nerfed than when she was the 5th-least played character in the game (which was only a couple weeks ago, mind you.) Rito is intentionally trying to make her compete for the position of #1 least-played character in the entire game and she is damn well on the right track towards that title. Can we please demand a full revert back to her original kit now?
: Riot actually made Sona worse than even 10.3 with the last round of changes + the hotfix
Rito would never buff Sona. I said it was just a ploy to give Meddler an excuse to gut her & laugh at us. Not so much conspiracy "theory" now and rather just genuine conspiracy. I would hate to say "I told you so," but... Lol, who'm I kidding? I'm more than happy to say it. I told you so. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
: Wow. She's so nerfed. I can't believe they broke the only role (support) Sona works in just to take out a few top-lane enthusiasts. She's now worse than Yuumi without a the zoomies... I end up chasing my ADCs around the map -- and many times I can't catch them to get my mana back. I'm out of mana as soon as I enter lane and have to deal with any situation... a quick QWE and poof, OOM. This is so broken. If you really wanted her out of top lane: * AAs on minions drain Sona's mana for the first 10 minutes of game. 1 mana per attack. * Sona cannot travel above the Baron pit for the first 10 minutes of the game. * Sona does not do damage in the top lane for the first 10 minutes of the game. * Sona does not Queue in the Top Lane Position. Let's review Sona's major nerfs: * Removed her awesome range on Q * Change her E so she has to "touch" aura instead of shoot aura to her allies. * Fiora can parry her ult. Fiora can parry sound. Nice. * Increase her mana usage by 50%?! Unless she touches an ally on every cast? Now I can't spam if I'm building Tear. Let's review her buffs: * Buff her PERSONAL E speed to 25%, no wait... 20%, no wait... back to the original 10% :/ Ridiculous. I'm a Sona OTP and now I'm building TriForce and Guinsoo just to support with AAs.
> [{quoted}](name=animexcom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eunTNKxA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2020-02-21T04:18:36.923+0000) > > * Removed her awesome range on Q Look, I'ma agree with you on everything you said & you get an upvote from me, but I just gotta correct this one misconception. Sona's bolt-range on Q has no documented nerfs in her entire patch history. It has a max range of 700-units (listed **incorrectly** on the wiki & LoL's old pages.) It has an enemy-champion priority range of 550-units (which was buffed up from 500-units in Season 3.) Her bolt-range has never been longer than this. Now, Rito or more accurately Fearless did shadow nerf the range by 50 points in 4.13 & shadow nerf an additional 100 units in 4.16, but these were reverted in 4.17 (which the wiki incorrectly claims it went from 700 to 850. It actually went from 550 to 700. Hence why the wiki's listed Q-bolt range is **incorrect**.) If there have ever been any other shadow changes, they're unknown to me. Sona is the most-gutted character in this game's history, I'll never claim otherwise. I just want to make sure we keep the discussion factual.
: Add Urf Permanently, or other wide varities of game modes permanently
I'm still waiting for the Ranked Dominion we were promised some 8 or 9 years ago. I'm sure it'll be here soon...
: Why does Cait still have the fastest attack animation...
> [{quoted}](name=Mega Annie X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B5wpiEsP,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-02-21T02:04:31.533+0000) > > She literally is the longest range ADC and has an attack animation so fast, it can't be clipped. Caitlyn literally has the [2nd-slowest](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Attack_speed) attack animation in the entire game (not just amongst ADCs,) which is including Senna's abysmal animation speed. > She runs at basically 95% movespeed while never missing an auto because of how unclippable her attack animation is. She literally sits in [the lowest](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Caitlyn) movement speed tier in the game, [325](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Movement_speed). > This is the fundamental reason why she is OVERPOWERED compared to everyone else. There are plenty of reasons why Caitlyn is strong, but you have not presented a single one. On the contrary, the 2 stats you are attacking are matter-of-factly amongst her **weak points.** I'd say nice try, but it really wasn't...
: > [{quoted}](name=Powwer69,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=000000000001000100000001000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2020-02-20T22:29:31.319+0000) > > but I did, and I am, and we're still here talking about it, so I obviously "got away with it" [Be sure to post that on this thread.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/69mRabEW-riot-philosophy?show=flat)
> [{quoted}](name=Powwer69,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=00000000000100010000000100010000000000000001000000000006,timestamp=2020-02-20T23:05:32.455+0000) > > Could you repeat that again? I said it thrice already. So no, I won't repeat it again.
: Why is it so hard for a hundred billion dollar company to make a fully-functional client?
Doesn't matter how much money Rito has, if they just refuse to invest a dime of it. They admittedly have unpaid, volunteer programmers. Neither you or I can begin to fathom the corners Rito is cutting to save a penny. If it's not money going directly into Meddler's & Jag's pockets, it's not money worth spent.
: > [{quoted}](name=Powwer69,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=000000000001000100000001000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2020-02-20T22:29:31.319+0000) > > but I did, and I am, and we're still here talking about it, so I obviously "got away with it" [Be sure to post that on this thread.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/69mRabEW-riot-philosophy?show=flat)
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=00000000000100010000000100010000000000000001000000000001,timestamp=2020-02-20T22:47:44.278+0000) > > Strange that despite these apparent loopholes the thread remains closed. My browser must have not updated it. The thread remains locked because the OP wasn't the person at fault. He's angry because it was his thread & he can't accept the fact that other posters are actually at fault. That it was their comments that got it locked. It's all one big headache.
iiGazeii (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TeemoNeedsBuffs,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PQqwv4Uh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-02-20T18:45:46.299+0000) > > Wrong, you can't "zip around" all you want without drying up your entire mana bar in a few casts, her Mana pool was not updated to account for her new costs which means you only have 340.6 – 1105.6 to work with, thus making Presence of Mind and Manaflow mandatory picks due to how a single rotation of basic abilities can nuke 50% of your total mana and only restore enough Mana for a single ability cast IF YOU'RE CLOSE ENOUGH TO PROC THE REFUND ON ALL OF THEM. > > They ruined her. Did you read the changes? The cost of all of her abilities went up by 25, but she refunds 30 mana whenever they tag a teammate. Her abilities are slightly cheaper than before if you're near allies.
Not "near allies," Sona has to be literally on top of them, due to her pitiful 400-units range. Players have noted that they only tag an ally about ~60% of the time. Positioning, range & her (failed) URF passive makes tagging allies unreasonably difficult. Considering this, it is most assuredly a nerf to support Sona (a very large nerf at that.) Even if you were to go out of your way to tag allies (& intentionally misposition yourself,) it is still a nerf to support Sona, as it forces an inefficient play pattern & puts yourself in a dangerous position of getting 1-shot by light breezes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika310,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-02-20T17:25:00.816+0000) > > Periscope's comment was advisory to avoid hate speech when getting a point across. The mods' stance on profanity is very loose, but let's try not to demean women, please. LOL! Zero "hate speech" in the original post, zero "sexism." Big difference between that and humor. Most feminists and "SJWs" don't have a sense of humor so they confuse comedy with hate. Humor is lost on the feeble-minded, as usual. +1 to Powwer69, too many sensitive little girls on here; and that's not sexism or toxicity. Facts are neither sexist nor are they toxic, they're just facts. Get a sense of humor. Powwer69 has one. Periscope and many others here do not, obviously.
The OP is angry that his thread got locked, but he doesn't understand it was other posters' comments that got it locked. Not him or his original post. I tried pointing this fact out to him. This isn't a matter of "sense of humor" & you going around accusing others of being "SJWs" is no better. You don't have to be a "SJW" to know pulling your dick out in the workplace & rubbing it against your coworkers is unacceptable behavior. Something which Ritoers, plural, actually did. Do you think that's "humor" & "comedy" too? I guess the US Gov. are just being a bunch of snowflakes, according to you.
rujitra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=re7usjRE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-02-20T17:24:33.295+0000) > > And that's potentially illegal. There are ways around it for Riot, but I doubt they'd happen because it would take Riot open-sourcing the boards software or Riot admitting that the boards are just a red-headed stepchild. It's never illegal for someone to utilize the **willing** work of another person without compensation. It is only illegal when it is obtained through force or trickery.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=re7usjRE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2020-02-20T17:57:15.692+0000) > > It's never illegal for someone to utilize the **willing** work of another person without compensation. > > It is only illegal when it is obtained through force or trickery. Konami literally had to start paying their Yugioh judges monetarily because it was illegal to utilize them otherwise. Even giving them booster packs was deemed insufficient "compensation" for their work. So it is definitely illegal to work people for free, whether willing or otherwise. It's only through abusing legal loopholes that companies like Rito are allowed to go so long relying on unpaid "volunteers" & will almost inevitably have it eventually catch up to them.
Powwer69 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Trolosaurus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-20T17:42:33.434+0000) > > Unfortunately for you, that's not for you to decide So now not only can I not reflect on the truth of Riots nerfing practices, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on speech? Wow...
> [{quoted}](name=Powwer69,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-20T17:48:13.817+0000) > > So now not only can I not reflect on the truth of Riots nerfing practices, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on speech? Wow... You're free to talk about how disgusting and backwards Rito's "Gameplay Design" is all you want, within reason. The definition of speech is decided by the Supreme Court.
: Presence of Mind is now a requirement on Sona, a 30 refund is not nearly enough for these new costs
In the short time since this patch went Live, players have taken notice that they're only able to tag allies about ~60% of the time. Like I said last week & people refused to believe me, this nerf to Sona was intentionally disguised as a "buff" to her support role. It is not. Players are already voicing frustrations at this new forced mini-game of "tag allies or get punished." A complaint that is returned from season 4 when she was first changed "tag allies or your spells are sub-optimal." Rito's answer to these concerns was adding a miserable +50 units-radius to her shit-bubbles. The complaint back then was, Sona is weak if she's not tagging everybody with every cast. The new complaint is, Sona is **PUNISHED** if she can't tag anybody. Feeling punished is even worse than feeling weak. There are many points where she can't tag allies, mostly while moving around the map, but frequently also in lane & even in teamfights. Players calculate that after factoring in refunds, she spends about ~3,000 more mana per game this patch. --- Tl;Dr: I was right all along.
Powwer69 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-02-20T17:20:16.254+0000) > > I mean, joke or not, sexism obviously isn't allowed here so the real snowflake here is you for thinking you can do whatever you want without punishment. You're lucky he didn't delete it and give you a warning for that. Yea, I will say whatever I want because I live in America, and I have that right.
> [{quoted}](name=Powwer69,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKEz4yuV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-02-20T17:27:15.205+0000) > > Yea, I will say whatever I want because I live in America, and I have that right. This is an online forum owned by a private company. The 1st Amendment does not apply here & it also doesn't defend hate speech.
Powwer69 (NA)
: QQ more Riot Moderators
It should be well known that I'm the last person to defend moderators, but that thread was primarily locked not for your statements or the subject matter, but due to the toxicity that broke out from other certain individuals. Periscope's comment was advisory to avoid hate speech when getting a point across. The mods' stance on profanity is very loose, but let's try not to demean women, please.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika310,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=69mRabEW,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-20T15:14:48.687+0000) > > Funny you should cyberstalk me like that, (which is a federal crime, fyi.) Because [it seems to be the consensus there](https://www.reddit.com/r/sonamains/comments/f2gwtj/104_sona_change_25_mana_cost_to_q_w_e_30_mana/) that this is an objective **NERF** to support Sona. How strange that they agree with exactly what I'm saying, even after your personal attacks against me. Um, yes. I never said that it wasnt nerf. Also browsering Reddit and reading comments and user names is against the law in your country? Doubt it.
Feel free to [read it](https://www.justice.gov/usao/file/851856/download) for yourself.
: >EVEN IN THE ARDENT CENSER ENCHANTER META Jeez the delusions, oh man. https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/infographics/patch-7-19-infographics https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/infographics/patch-7-18-infographics https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/infographics/patch-7-13-infographics https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/infographics/patch-7-12-infographics https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/infographics/patch-7-11-infographics >4.13 made her bad It made her support, finally. >Which is why the super majority of the playerbase demanded that Rito & Fearless cancel/revert that "rework." Not even majority of Sona mains lol. You are literally meme on Sonamains reddit as "The guy who adamantly claims Sona needs revert" >This patch was an objective nerf to support Sona. Not the first champ that was nerfed slightly in their main role bcs of their ovebearing presence in other one, not the last one. No one is saying she wont get buffed, but its just "We want to be absolutely sure she wont enter top in near future ever again".
Funny you should cyberstalk me like that, (which is a federal crime, fyi.) Because [it seems to be the consensus there](https://www.reddit.com/r/sonamains/comments/f2gwtj/104_sona_change_25_mana_cost_to_q_w_e_30_mana/) that this is an objective **NERF** to support Sona. How strange that they agree with exactly what I'm saying, even after your personal attacks against me.
: > so your main got banned. not surprising If my main were banned, I would play on a non-main, and I don't. Nice try to apply logic > if she had a 46% win rate, would you be on here saying she needs to be buffed? 1) she needs buffs even now, on a support role 2) Its better for the game to have a weak champion than strong one. 3) 100-56=44, not 46 4) you are the one who created a topic, not me. I could say "you probably came too late to abuse Sona top and are now mad because of the nerfs", but I won't.
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=69mRabEW,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2020-02-20T15:02:22.359+0000) > > 1) she needs buffs even now, on a support role Yet here you are, blindly defending nerfs to her support role. > 2) Its better for the game to have a weak champion than strong one. Sona was already weak, yet received nerfs. Meanwhile Senna is almost pick/ban, along with Sett & Aphelios. Why is it better to be weak, but only when it applies to Sona specifically? Why are those 3 exempt from the same ideology? That's blatant prejudice.
: > 340 base mana, Aria costs 105 per cast, theoretical 30 refund per cast. Oops! She just went OoM after 4 casts She did not, her W cd is 10 seconds so by the time her 4th cd is over she already regenerated more than enough for 5th cast. Im not sure if "11.5" mana regen on that page is mp5(11 mana per second sounds ridiculously huge), but if it is, 40 seconds are enough to regen almost 90 mana, just enough for 5th cast. And thats if you spam her lvl1 W every cd, which you are not supposed to do, and with no other mana/manaregen sources. Which she usually has. _So much for your propaganda..._ > Her shit-bubbles (they are NOT auras, stop calling them auras) have 400-units of radius "AURA: Sona and tagged allied champions deal bonus magic damage on their next basic attack within 3 seconds." I didn't invent the name > She quite literally has to sit on the fucking head 400 range is not "sitting on the head". And she doesn't have to be in that range every time, just tick it once to give ally an effect and restore 30 mana. > How the fuck does casting MORE spells mean "mana is no longer an issue"? I did not say "she spams spells so mana is not an issue". I said "at the point when she starts spamming spells, mana is not an issue". The "point" is the reason, meaning the point of time when she gets enough manaregen from items and stacked manaflow to no longer care about mana. Because thats how mana and support items work, and you obviously know that. > Just remember in a week's time, when Sona is the 4th-least played character in the entire fucking game, that I was right She might be the least played character at all, for all I care. Current meta is literally the worst possible for support Sona, so its natural that she does bad, and her skillset is not interesting to play. Still, current changes are a buff to support Sona, even if a weak one.
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=69mRabEW,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-20T14:27:22.846+0000) > > Oops! She just went OoM after 4 casts > > Current meta is literally the worst possible for support Sona, so its natural that she does bad, and her skillset is not interesting to play. "Current meta, current meta, current meta." I've heard this excuse for Sona being a shit character during every single meta. **EVEN IN THE ARDENT CENSER ENCHANTER META.** The excuse then was, "Other enchanters are pushing her out of the role." There is no meta where Sona is viable, because Sona herself is not viable & Patch 4.13 was the exact point in time when this occurred. 4.13 made her bad, it made her uninteresting, it made her bad in literally every meta. Which is why the super majority of the playerbase demanded that Rito & Fearless cancel/revert that "rework." This patch was an objective nerf to support Sona. That is an objective fact, proven by objective math, objective practical gameplay & objective logic. I don't know why you hate Sona & I don't care. All I know is that you do & because of that, you will blindly defend every nerf Rito makes to her.
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: A one click vote is literally the opposite of a discussion. Hiding comments that are to downvoted is straight up inhibiting to fair discourse. People shouldn't be posting just to say "I agree" or "I disagree" either. If you have nothing of value to contribute to a discussion, you should just watch/read it.
A 1-click vote is definitely a form of discussion. The true opposite of discussion would be intentionally telling other posters to "just watch/read it" & openly telling them they "have nothing of value to contribute." Quite literally saying their opinions do not matter. Telling them that if it did matter, they would've said something, even if somebody else already said it. If 1 person said "I like apples," according to **YOU**, only that 1 person is allowed to like apples. Others aren't allowed to upvote him, they aren't allowed to post "I agree," they aren't allowed to express their opinion in any way if it doesn't deviate from what was stated. Hidden comments can be un-hidden be merely clicking the Show button. They aren't inhibited in any kind of way whatsoever. The system merely determined that what was said is so unpopular, it assumes you won't want to see it without opting to do so. Which, like I said, requires a simple click of the Show button. Nothing more.
: Your opinion does not matter.
I would upvote, but can't do that either.
: > The initial costs before cast are higher. The minimum amount of mana she needs just to cast a fucking spell is higher. Did Rito increase her base mana to compensate? Of fucking course not. Her manacosts are increased by 25, and mana restore is 30. As long as you casted at least 5 spells before going oom, you will get that 25 mana back > Her shit-bubbles have shit range, tagging even 1 ally isn't guaranteed She can, you know, move close to her ally while an aura is in effect. I don't really see how you can fail tagging your ally even once. Especially because she is supposed to do it anyway > In practical gameplay, tagging allies is proven sub-optimal & factually lowers Sona's efficacy, DPS & HPS In practical gameplay not tagging allies is bad even now. You get Q damage/shield/MS boost for free if you do it. Now you also get 5 bonus mana > This is especially true when her (conceptually failed) URF R-passive comes online and it becomes increasingly more-difficult to tag allies with every single shit-bubble when you turn on your auto-clicker. Once she starts roaming and spamming spells, mana is no longer an issue. > the placebo buff to her E Oh well guess I just wasted time for nothing
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=69mRabEW,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2020-02-20T13:55:44.651+0000) > > Her manacosts are increased by 25, and mana restore is 30. As long as you casted at least 5 spells before going oom, you will get that 25 mana back [340 base mana, Aria costs 105 per cast](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sona), theoretical 30 refund per cast. Oops! She just went OoM after 4 casts. She is so fucking mana-gated, she can't even reach that 5-cast threshold. Looks like math & logic wins. So much for your propaganda... > She can, you know, move close to her ally while an aura is in effect. I don't really see how you can fail tagging your ally even once. Especially because she is supposed to do it anyway [Her shit-bubbles (they are **NOT** auras, stop calling them auras) have 400-units of radius.](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Sona) It isn't a matter of "moving closer" to your ally. She quite literally has to sit on the fucking head. Sona has a kit designed like Yuumi's, attaching to an ally, without the luxury of actually being allowed to attach to an ally. An ally who will spend the entire game trying to **NOT** have you sit on top of her, whether subconsciously or not. > In practical gameplay not tagging allies is bad even now. You get Q damage/shield/MS boost for free if you do it. Now you also get 5 bonus mana Further proving my point of Sona being punished even harder now than before. > Once she starts roaming and spamming spells, mana is no longer an issue. Once she starts roaming and "burning mana to cast E" is what you mean. I don't even understand where you dug up this backwards logic. How the fuck does casting **MORE** spells mean "mana is no longer an issue"? I politely ask that you proofread what you say before actually posting it. Just remember in a week's time, when Sona is the 4th-least played character in the entire fucking game, that I was right. I will be there to rub it in your face.
ZaFishbone (EUNE)
: Welcome to the boards, where shunning those who don't agree with the echo-chamber is more important than having honest discussions.
An up or downvote is a form of discussion. There isn't always something meaningfully to be put into words. Oft just a single click was all you needed to say I (dis)agree with what was said here. If everyone was forced to reply with a 2-word comment saying exactly that, every thread would just become flooded with spam. Commenting should be reserved for when something is worth saying; a rebuttal, an expansion, a correction, discussion of individual points made in a topic & so on. Disabling the vote system was a bad decision which directly contradicts a fundamental philosophy of discussion. It was an **EXTREME **reaction to a less-extreme "problem." Like amputating an arm because your finger has a paper cut.
: > Riot in 2020 - "Oh, you thought you were gonna be a strong, independent woman? I've gotta admit, that part made me laugh alittle :D
> [{quoted}](name=IRON to PRO,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=69mRabEW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-02-20T13:41:51.105+0000) > > I've gotta admit, that part made me laugh alittle :D I wish I could find amusement in that statement. Unfortunately, [it's actually very accurate](https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-01-28/riot-games-and-the-lawyers-suing-them-take-aim-at-a-common-enemy-state-regulators) to Rito Game's genuine attitude towards women.
: If a champion is op top and fine bot, they need a nerf that works against toplane bot not botlane. Thats exactly how Sona nerf works
Nope, this was matter-of-factly a **HUGE** nerf to support Sona as well. 1. The initial costs before cast are higher. The minimum amount of mana she needs just to cast a fucking spell is higher. Did Rito increase her base mana to compensate? Of fucking course not. 2. Her shit-bubbles have shit range, tagging even 1 ally isn't guaranteed. A very large portion of the time, she **WILL NOT** receive the mana refund. 3. In practical gameplay, tagging allies is proven sub-optimal & factually lowers Sona's efficacy, DPS & HPS. This nerf now **PUNISHES** you for not playing her sub-optimally. Fucked if you do, fucked if you don't. This is especially true when her (conceptually failed) URF R-passive comes online and it becomes increasingly more-difficult to tag allies with every single shit-bubble when you turn on your auto-clicker. I can confidently predict that her pickrate will fall even lower than it was before the placebo buff to her E. As a reminder, she was the least-picked support & 5th-least picked character overall. This nerf will likely see her compete for the bottom 3 at least.
: Mana heroes
Mana-gating is a way to directly balance champions & place restrictions on what they're capable of & for how long over a prolonged period. By creating mana-less champions, Rito has more freedom to break certain champions & make them more adept at creating LC$BigPlay$. The logic is so they can make money. Balance & customer satisfaction is irrelevant to short-term profits.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika310,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eunTNKxA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2020-02-16T06:41:23.515+0000) > > It certainly doesn't help that Meddler is a Brand-support 1-trick & has been very vocal of his disdain towards enchanters. He has an especially hard hate-boner for Sona. Every time her pickrate rises to 1%, out comes the nerf bazooka. nerfing champs just because you dont like them is very childish and doesn't do any good to the game balance.
> [{quoted}](name=BenBaxter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eunTNKxA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2020-02-20T01:03:01.348+0000) > > nerfing champs just because you dont like them is very childish and doesn't do any good to the game balance. It's a good thing then that Rito denounced the concept of balance several seasons ago. It was at the same time the "Balance Team" renamed their department to "Gameplay Design." Not even joking.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika310,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GcWR3VBq,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2020-02-19T23:08:30.899+0000) > > Your teammate being unskilled is not a reasonable excuse to intentionally sabotage him. It is also not a reasonable excuse to sabotage the whole team by lowering the overall team-gold amount because of the support item's gold-clamping passive. Further, it is also not a reasonable excuse either to sell Sightstone as a workaround to the gold-clamping & sabotage your team's vision. > > By the way, intentionally playing sub-optimally is matter-of-factly against the rules. If you know what you're doing is hindering the team, it is intentional. Actually, knowledge is separate from intent, so even if you don't know you're hindering the team, your actions to do so are still intentional. If my team mate is 0/7 and physically incapable of figuring out how to do anything, i dont care if they think im "sabatoging" them, im taking the CS. Theres no reason for me to let them get CS and increase their own bounty and fail to build anything useful when i can use the gold better. Intentionally playing sub optimally is not against the rules. It makes zero sense to argue this, because then if you pick anything that isnt the highest winrate champion into the enemy team, youre griefing by definition by your own statements, as youre "playing suboptimally". At the end of the day, LoL is a game. The objective is to win, how you do so is largely irrelevant.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GcWR3VBq,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2020-02-19T23:13:25.820+0000) > > If my team mate is 0/7 and physically incapable of figuring out how to do anything, i dont care if they think im "sabatoging" them, im taking the CS. Theres no reason for me to let them get CS and increase their own bounty and fail to build anything useful when i can use the gold better. > > Intentionally playing sub optimally is not against the rules. It makes zero sense to argue this, because then if you pick anything that isnt the highest winrate champion into the enemy team, youre griefing by definition by your own statements, as youre "playing suboptimally". At the end of the day, LoL is a game. The objective is to win, how you do so is largely irrelevant. What they "think" you're doing is irrelevant to this discussion. It is objectively gameplay sabotage, no "think," no "feel," just "it is." If you ask & convince them to let you cs, that would be a different story, a consensus. Stealing cs without the team's approval is sabotage. "Winrate" is not a determination of champion strength, gameplay optimization or even a useful fucking number in general. It's a sheeple concept used for various excuses & an avoidance of context. Example: a champion has a 54% winrate. Context: that champion has < 1% pickrate; is primarily picked in low silver & under; has sub-par performance' with their item/rune choices; high average-player familiarity; low enemy-player familiarity; sub-50% winrates against every meta-pick in their intended role; et cetera. "Playing optimally" doesn't mean "play the champ with the highest winrate." This is almost NEVER the optimal choice, to claim otherwise is narrow-minded. Players ARE obligated to play optimally, but there are innumerable factors that have to be taken into consideration, winrate very rarely being 1 of those. Intentionally sabotaging your team is blatantly sub-optimal. You aren't hurting just your ADC's farm, you're attacking your whole team's morale, intentionally sowing discord, attempting to tilt allies, etc. etc. The negative impacts of this misaction is far deeper than you're attempting to imply. --- PS: Extra brownie points if you can guess which champion I used in the example.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GcWR3VBq,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-19T22:31:15.150+0000) > > Intentionally taking farm when it will give less gold to you than to an ally who is there with you who can get the farm is by definition intentionally "screwing over the team". No, its not. If my ADC is trash, theres no point letting them get any gold, which increases their own death value, if im in a position to perform their role. Also, again, playing suboptimally is not against any rules. It doesnt matter if you do something that hinders your team, it matters if you intend for it to do so. Theres a massive difference between the two.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GcWR3VBq,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-19T22:47:50.398+0000) > > No, its not. If my ADC is trash, theres no point letting them get any gold, which increases their own death value, if im in a position to perform their role. > > Also, again, playing suboptimally is not against any rules. It doesnt matter if you do something that hinders your team, it matters if you intend for it to do so. Theres a massive difference between the two. Your teammate being unskilled is not a reasonable excuse to intentionally sabotage him. It is also not a reasonable excuse to sabotage the whole team by lowering the overall team-gold amount because of the support item's gold-clamping passive. Further, it is also not a reasonable excuse either to sell Sightstone as a workaround to the gold-clamping & sabotage your team's vision. By the way, intentionally playing sub-optimally is matter-of-factly against the rules. If you know what you're doing is hindering the team, it is intentional. Actually, knowledge is separate from intent, so even if you don't know you're hindering the team, your actions to do so are still intentional.
: I love watching 0/3 support Brand carry games because you can't be fucked to balance damage
Meddler is a support-Brand 1-trick main. Of course Rito isn't going to nerf his damage, if anything he's likely to receive buffs. Meanwhile, Sona got kneecapped because 1 Youtuber was "playing" her for views.
: Your Current Ban and Why
{{champion:107}} I prefer being allowed to play the game. I queued for Summoner's Rift. I did not queue up to play Grey Screen Simulator. Zero interaction, zero counterplay, zero reaction time. Doesn't even matter if you have teammates, turrets & vision on him, once he hits level 6 it's guaranteed 150 to 0 every time his R is up & it's always up thanks to the Ultimate Hunter keystone. Runes Reforged was a conceptual failure, but that's a different problem.
iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: Double cast is NOT balanced
It's blatantly obvious that the TFT team has taken the exact same stance as WotC. "We want to power creep everything out of fucking control! If everything is broken, nothing is broken!" Then you have a shit game that isn't enjoyable & nobody wants to fucking play. WotC is doing it to inflate prices & sell products. TFT Rito doesn't even have that excuse, they're just doing it cause they don't understand basic game design.
: Well i am glad you're happy but I am not! Press F to pay respects. {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
I'm pressing F & pouring one out. True to form, Rito intentionally chooses to treat the symptoms & ignore the festering, rotting disease. None of this would've happened if Rito had **cancelled the reworks**, just like we fucking **told them to do** in 4.13 & 4.17, but the fat sticks they shoved up their own asses keep screaming dollar signs into their ears. It makes them deaf to the voices of their customers.
: Mastery 8
Rito said they have plans to implement Mastery 8 & higher and a strong idea of how it'll function. Of course, they said that several seasons ago & it still hasn't been added, sooo . . . . .
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika310,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=l7ME4hBH,comment-id=0005000300000000,timestamp=2020-02-18T20:30:28.853+0000)Ah, so you're recycling the same "Rito didn't give us the tools" excuse for when you went on a wholesale thread-deleting spree under the excuse of "this was posted on the wrong board." That is correct. The reason I'm reusing this explanation is that **we do not having a working thread move function** and **we do not have a way to view who voted for what threads**, so it is an accurate explanation of the situation. If you would prefer I lie to you I can, certainly: ***We're unable to identify who voted for what because we're all secretly sentient badgers and our spare time is entirely spent taking zeppelin piloting lessons instead of learning our moderation tools.*** Is that better? :P
What I would prefer, is you petition Rito with your complaints instead of repeatedly dropping them on us, the users, who have zero control over or responsibility for your problems. Or do you rather we should have to do that job for you?
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika310,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=l7ME4hBH,comment-id=00050003,timestamp=2020-02-18T20:26:14.460+0000)Also, why not just go after the bots directly? Probably too much effort for unpaid volunteers. We'd love to. Sadly, we do not have the tools to do so effectively nor the data we'd need to identify them properly, nor are we able to make code changes to the platform at a level that could resolve the issue.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=l7ME4hBH,comment-id=000500030000,timestamp=2020-02-18T20:27:25.662+0000) > > We'd love to. Sadly, we do not have the tools to do so effectively nor the data we'd need to identify them properly, nor are we able to make code changes to the platform at a level that could resolve the issue. Ah, so you're recycling the same "Rito didn't give us the tools" excuse for when you went on a wholesale thread-deleting spree under the excuse of "this was posted on the wrong board." Which about 90% of those deleted threads were discussing gameplay on the "Gameplay" board, but I digress.
: Voting has been removed due to vote bot abuse.
> [{quoted}](name=Its Yuu and Mi,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=l7ME4hBH,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2020-02-18T19:41:41.050+0000) > > Voting has been removed due to vote bot abuse. Yet voting on comments is still enabled. I'd call this half a job, but that would be too generous. Also, why not just go after the bots directly? Probably too much effort for unpaid volunteers.
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Pika310

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