Jaspers (EUW)
: When Pyke did build HP, using his passive conversion, Riot didn't like it and changed his ratios to lethality and buffed his ult. Now he's one of the most complained about in the game. But my point is, it doesn't matter if Pyke is building HP or not, why would he need 130 base armour? You know Zed has to spend 800 gold to get the same amount of armour as Pyke? Doesn't matter what range she has, she gets free AD and crit while other ADCs have to spend gold to get that, they have to farm (minions or champs), while she can do both as well as getting stacks. Yet she isn't vulnerable though, not like other ADCs (or I should say Kog'Maw because most the other have a way to survive, poor Kog'Maw). She has a heal, hard CC and stealth to keep her safe. She has a low starting AD, that's fine, just like Thresh has low starting armour' as she could stack to become unstoppable but AD and how she uses it as a caster shouldn't affect her range. Of which she far out ranges and out pokes a lot of those in the support role already with Q and W, why add more?
Senna's passive isn't free. It's gained at the detriment of her extremely low AS. How do you not see how different this is from Pyke's inability to build HP? A more comparable example would be if Pyke couldn't buy lethality, something that all Assassins use, so gained AD in exchange. It's not free, it's a shift of power. Her CC is super unreliable and her stealth doesn't get her out of all-ins. Senna is not a champion that could possibly be considered safe IF she had normal range.
Jaspers (EUW)
: This is the weird kind of excuse people make about Pyke having 130 base armour because he can't build HP. 2 completely different stats. How does Senna having bad attack speed ratio and therefore can't build attack speed efficiently mean she has to have massive range when she gets free AD, crit and increased range thanks to her passive? They are different stats. Not saying she is OP.
It's different. Pyke's passive strictly makes him better because odds are he wouldn't build HP often anyways. Those stats are simply granted to him. With Senna, she has to put effort into getting stats from her passive and this is why she needs that range. Without that range, gaining stacks would become significantly more difficult. I see what you're saying, but think of it like this. Senna's slow attack speed makes her vulnerable when attacking, thus if she had range on par with most other ADCs, let's say 550, her range WOULD actually be less effective than other ADCs with 550 range. This is because champions with lower range can actually contest her autos due to them being so slow. Another deal-breaker here is that ADCs with lower range than Senna tend to have stronger kits ONCE they're in that threat range. Now how does she gain stats from her passive if she's being all-inned, which is her weakness, every time she tries to AA? The change wouldn't put her on an even playing field, but a disadvantaged one.
: Senna simply does way too much poke damage
Her base range has to be high because of her slow autoattacks.
: toxic EZ or izi
: Fine you hate Shaco's Q and you think it's just the most broken ability in the game. What do you propose they do? Also what brought about this strong hatred of Shaco you've only played with a Shaco once in the past 4 months and he went 5-5-14 39% kill participation and you've never played against one. Further more where are you getting these numbers I want to see sources not just graphs. Currently In Diamond+ NA Shaco is only sitting at 52% in jungle and 50% as support for 9.22. In masters+ he's only at **48%.** His win rate has been falling patch by path. https://u.gg/lol/champions/shaco/build?rank=diamond_plus&region=na1
I use https://lolalytics.com Since U.gg only provides his final WR, Lolalytics serves the purpose of letting me see his power curve. Even if the WR's are a bit off, the differences between Kayle and Shaco should be consistent since it's from the same source. Besides, it's dishonest to use a single region. Shaco's Diamond WR is 53.79% if we include all regions. https://u.gg/lol/champions/shaco/build?rank=diamond Not interested in addressing the rest where you're getting super personal. I provided data far larger than any anecdotal experiences I could tell you, and I'm not going to pretend that I have any good solutions. Either I gut the Q's invisibility early and buff it late, which defeats the purpose of the power shift, or I gut his AD/Crit scalings so that he doesn't delete you if he gets atop of you in the late game, which makes him deal 0 DMG again. That's part of the reason Shaco mains felt he was weak.
Moody P (NA)
: Why is Urgot not defined by his range when it's the only interesting thing he has?
Urgot does have a prerequisite to get his damage off. His E is pretty much like Illaoi's, he's useless if he misses it. I do agree that he's very similar to other Juggernauts though, but there is emphasis on his range. While some of the other Juggs have point & click melee executes, Urgot's execute has 2,500 range but he has to aim it. Even more, I'd argue that being ranged isn't what makes Urgot stand out, but the fact that he's a walking turret.
: That her earlygame isn't weak enough despite being mele she can poke you and literally 50% of Kayles bring Kleptomancy...
I don't agree entirely. I would if this were the previous patch, when Kayle was hitting a 50% WR by the 10 min mark, and 53% by the 15 min mark. But now she only hits 50% at the 15 min mark, which I think is somewhat balanced for a scaling champ. It means her early is weak, her mid decent~ish, and her late is strong. This is in contrast to other champions that have focuses on stages of the game such as Draven, who has a strong early-game(56%) but a good mid-game(53%) and an OK late-game(50%). Or Darius who never actually dips under 50% WR. She is quite strong relative to champions that have static WRs such as Garen, who also sacrifices his early game, though. Champions with static WRs will hover around 50% +/- 2% WR throughout the most of the game, whereas Kayle will continue to scale. This'll probably change when Klepto is nerfed, which would cause her WR to ramp up slower and extend some of her early-game weakness to her mid-game. As for why I do agree a bit, it's because punishing Kayle is still hard due to her self-peel.
: That graph on Kayle's winrate doesn't surprise me but rather frightens me that I was pretty much right.
Comentários de Rioters
: silver 1
Irrelevant. The only counterplay to Shaco's ganks is having a red nearby or not giving him an opportunity to gank, which means to avoid playing aggressively when he's on your half of the map. Whether I'm Silver or Challenger, these facts do not change.
Eeyore (EUW)
: Why is Blind Pick still part of the new player experience?
yea. it doesnt help that blind pick incites sooooooooo much toxicity over positions. new players dont even have a grasp on positions, so imagine being flamed over it.
datfatguy (OCE)
: How do you actually lane against Illaoi
Dodge E and she's useless. If you're not willing to contend with her, you may as well let her push. Standing in your minion wave is your best option here. You standing there will bait her to Tentacle Smash you and the wave, thus starting a push. You can then farm under your tur once you've given up control. In that position, Illaoi's E's will be significantly easier to dodge since she has to stay far back if she doesn't want tower aggro. It's also her E that slows you. Killing your ghost is the requirement for the slow and tentacles to appear.
: Optimal use of Q is still to walk behind target while ganking saving the Q for when they flash. Stealth is absolutely not needed to gank and other champions can also bypass wards including but not limited to.....{{champion:28}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:154}} You can also just lane gank as any champion from fog of war using bushes. Shacos power increase is from his E being turned back into magic damage so penetration actually works with it and his passive applying every hit. (Like old Shaco it was often best to stutter step towards him when he attacked or full out brawl with him than to straight up run.)
Not to the same extent. Shaco isn't like Kha, Eve, or Rengar. He has the ability to do this pre-6. Even then, Shaco has less counterplay in his ganks. Rengar warns an area, Eve drops a charm on your head, and Kha's invisibility often doesn't last long enough for him to go unseen by both you and the ward. It's also much harder to detect Shaco in comparison to Lee, Jarvan, and even Kayn who reveals himself on walls. You won't see Shaco until Shaco is literally atop of you. Out of every jungler, I feel that Zac and Twitch are the only two that can compare to his ability to go undetected.
Ooduwa (NA)
: Show me where.
it was a reddit thread with over a thousand comments. cant recall which thread, but it was before she was released. alongside the fact that she could be played in both roles, the guy also stated that he expected her to be a champion in the 40% WR territory.
Comentários de Rioters
Ooduwa (NA)
: Na, Riot stated she's support, but a bunch of people who have no clue what they're doing are trying to force her into being a Carry, or solo laner. Neither works well.
: Senna ADC is the most fun I've ever had playing League of Legends in 3 YEARS.
: The average skill level
Certainly. A point people may forget is that the current Silver would be the past's Bronze and so on. This shows just how much the playerbase has improved BECAUSE no one has ever said "wow, Silver has gotten worse." They only ever say it's improved or that it's pretty much the same. Even if they're saying it's the same, they're admitting it improved because, in actuality, it'd be like saying our bronzes are now as strong as the past's silvers. Something more objective would be that now players of every division roam when it was an alien concept in even proplay during the past, CS better, don't build AP on every ADC anymore, and so on.
: Riot pls make more adcs viable
The problem with adc is that most of its players are like sheep. they all gravitate to the same picks, then wonder why those picks are all that they see.
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T11:22:58.396+0000) > > Since I can't pretend to know the matchup given that I play much Kennen OR Darius, that's still just 1 matchup. A few bad matchups doesn't invalidate the fact that Kennen is still a menace to majority of top laners before items come in. That's kind of the point. He's just annoying to play against for the first 10 minutes of the game, but not very impactful to the outcome, either positively or negatively. And this is why he should be reworked. Top laners tend to play like hyper aggressive monkeys, so they find this passive laning very frustrating, which is why it's not possible to actually discuss Kennen. The default is for top mains to start frothing at the mouth and screaming about ranged cancer.
Which I'll continue to do. The only lane Kennen deserves to be in is a highway lane. Like you said, he needs powershifting or a mini-rework.
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T11:07:51.047+0000) > > I can agree with pretty much everything you've written EXCEPT for your understatements of his mobility. Yes, Kennen can be caught by certain champions, but it's like you're removing any ounce of brainpower that the Kennen player has when creating your arguments. Hookshot can be dodged, a Kennen can account for Darius' pull, and so on. His E can very well be used to avoid those abilities altogether, rather than being used to escape AFTER those abilities have already caught him. You're missing an important point: **if you're ever in range to auto attack Darius, he can Apprehend you.** I know this match up very well. There are videos of me playing it against Hashinshin somewhere. It's a shit show. His E is not useful for avoiding it, unless you **never** auto attack Darius, or get in range to last hit while he's near your auto attack range. If you're doing this, you're losing lane and giving up a lot of CS, and you're likely soon to be out of energy because you're relying on your Q without proccing your passive. You have to preemptively move back; if you predict correctly, you'll avoid it with or without E. Or you can just switch the champion to something like Jax or Kled. They have a guaranteed way to get on top of you if you get close enough to auto them. Your E is only used to get away from them, and you've already taken some damage.
Since I can't pretend to know the matchup given that I play much Kennen OR Darius, that's still just 1 matchup. A few bad matchups doesn't invalidate the fact that Kennen is still a menace to majority of top laners before items come in.
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T10:07:29.871+0000) > > You have a point with the diminished returns on speed and I was wrong there, but Kennen's energy does not gate him from using Lightening Rush off CD. It gates him from using other abilities AND Lightening Rush off CD. My point is, he can make a choice to keep Lightening Rush accessible. The reality is he doesn't even need it to be accessible 24/7 off CD, because his enemy laners often lack the ability to force him into using it off CD to begin with. This is sort of a non-issue. There are a small number of top laners who Lightning Rush is a 'get out of jail free' card against, like Garen, but the vast majority of popular ones will kill or almost Kennen if they ever touch him. Examples being Camille or Darius. Lightning Rush is used as an 'oh shit, they touched me, I need the passive stack to maybe barely get out alive' button. The availability isn't important. > He has lower passive movement speed because he's ranged. Ranged champions naturally have lower movement speed. What you're asking for is to give Kennen special treatment. Literally any ranged champion would get run down by a Nasus if they lacked real CC. I'm demonstrating that he's not highly mobile in comparison to other top champions. He doesn't need more movement speed, but there's an underlying suggestion that other champions can't touch him because he out-mobilities them, which is very wrong. > This is part of his counterplay. Why should Kennen be ranged, mobile, AND capable of tanking decently well. He must have tradeoffs as all champions do. I'm not responding to deny all his downsides, but to say that his strongpoints are suffocating. I disagree on there being few top laners incapable of interacting him, but that depends on the length of the game. Once top laners have items, I feel they can actually force on him with their increased durability. It's at that point that I can agree. What do you think his strong points are? He pretty much only has one: he's a safe top laner. That's it. His damage is low, his survivability is low, his dueling potential doesn't exist, and his team fighting is mediocre. He doesn't really do much to influence the game. He just sits in lane and farms while hoping his team wins and rotates before he gets out-scaled. > 51% https://imgur.com/a/RqFnq2p . This is also another situation where Kennen should be blown up. Given the difficulty of catching him, he should die or be chunked out when caught. The only alternative to this would be him only taking a moderate amount of damage when caught. So, why should he only take a moderate amount of damage? The statistics for the current patch are wrong. Go back to an earlier patch. The problem with saying 'given the difficulty of catching Kennen, he should die if he gets caught' is that it's not difficult. Most match ups are a shit show where both players try to predict what the other is going to do; Kennen needs to pre-emptively disengage when he thinks he's about to get engaged on, because if the opponent connects for a moment, he's dead. At the same time, Kennen's only reward for playing well is 'not dying.' His damage is so low that he needs to win the prediction game 4-5 times, and his opponent has ample time to just recall. At the same time, if he gets it wrong once, he's dead. He has zero ability to win lane. Using Darius as an example, if you're in range to auto him, he's in range to Apprehend you. You have to guess when he's going to Apprehend and back off before he does so. This becomes a major issue once he has Cleaver and starts using the kill movement speed to run towards you, trying to bait your E. If you use it and he doesn't apprehend, you're zoned off the wave for the next 10 seconds and left without enough energy to CS with Q. You're also only considering his laning phase. His survivability is shit because 'he's hard to catch,' but what about his purpose as a team fighting champion? His kit requires him to dive into the enemy team, but he doesn't have the survivability required to do this effectively. The risk vs. reward is way off here. > Which is why Kennen's winrate ONLY increases all the way up from Bronze(48.69%), Silver(49.22%), Gold(50.45%), Plat(50.73%), and Diamond(51.12%) to Master(51.55%)? I've played ranged champions before so I know the difficulties associated with them, and they're not as easy as many people claim. I know the issue of feeling like you have to make 100 successful trades to kill your enemy laner, but being forced out of lane or dying if they ever win one. Believe it or not, surviving ranged champions is significantly easier than learning them. The reason for his win rate decreasing at lower ranks is because of the risk vs. reward issue I mentioned. Most low elo players won't realize that even though that Darius is at 30% health and you're at 100% health, you'll die if you Surge into him. They make too many mistakes, and one mistake for Kennen is guaranteed death. Like I said, Kennen doesn't really do anything. He sits in lane and AFK pushes. His entire viability is based on not losing and waiting for his team to win their lanes and carry him, while ensuring that the enemy top laner doesn't end up getting fed. Winning games at lower elo requires your champion to be able to win lane. > All this said, why are you people arguing against me so hard? Even ignoring how toxic his kit is, Kennen is a 51% WR champion that is in no way qualified for buffs. Kennen needs a rework, not buffs. His current play style is garbage. He should be a strong team fighting champion, like he was in Season 1-4, and not this passive champion who only wins games by making it 4v4 and hoping his team mates win their match ups.
I can agree with pretty much everything you've written EXCEPT for your understatements of his mobility. Yes, Kennen can be caught by certain champions, but it's like you're removing any ounce of brainpower that the Kennen player has when creating your arguments. Hookshot can be dodged, a Kennen can account for Darius' pull, and so on. His E can very well be used to avoid those abilities altogether, rather than being used to escape AFTER those abilities have already caught him.
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-15T08:09:22.004+0000) > > Kennen literally doubles his speed, Garen gains 30% more. As in, Kennen is practically 3 times as mobile as a Garen if we ignore builds. Besides, I'm not of mind that Garen is immobile and it's clear if you look at the threads I've posted. He doesn't really. It puts him so far over the soft cap that he loses 105 effective movement speed to it, without boots. With boots, he loses at least 150 movement speed. It's severely diminished over 490, and the cooldown isn't super relevant because Kennen is capped by energy. This also doesn't consider the fact that most top laners build 1-2 movement speed items. Kennen is very fast for a very short time, but most top laners are moderately fast at all times. If it comes down to a Nasus or Darius with 2 items chasing Kennen from half way down the lane, Kennen won't be able to reach his base before dying. This also doesn't factor in the fact that Kennen has no survivability. He only manages in lane by relying on his opponent never interacting with him. If his opponent does manage a single interaction with him, he's either going to die or be forced out of lane, and there are very few top laners who don't have the ability to do so. Darius, for example, has 62% win rate against Kennen if he takes Phase Rush, but only 51% without. Kennen dies every time Darius has Ghost up or gets hit with an Apprehend, because he can gets blown up and can't escape while he has the extra movement speed. Either way, it's impossible to discuss because he dumpsters bad players. 99% of low elo players panic when they take auto harass and try to retreat, instead of trying to trying to engage, which guarantees that you'll lose.
> [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T09:07:06.038+0000) > > He doesn't really. It puts him so far over the soft cap that he loses 105 effective movement speed to it, without boots. With boots, he loses at least 150 movement speed. It's severely diminished over 490, and the cooldown isn't super relevant because Kennen is capped by energy. > You have a point with the diminished returns on speed and I was wrong there, but Kennen's energy does not gate him from using Lightening Rush off CD. It gates him from using other abilities AND Lightening Rush off CD. My point is, he can make a choice to keep Lightening Rush accessible. The reality is he doesn't even need it to be accessible 24/7 off CD, because his enemy laners often lack the ability to force him into using it off CD to begin with. > This also doesn't consider the fact that most top laners build 1-2 movement speed items. Kennen is very fast for a very short time, but most top laners are moderately fast at all times. If it comes down to a Nasus or Darius with 2 items chasing Kennen from half way down the lane, Kennen won't be able to reach his base before dying. He has lower passive movement speed because he's ranged. Ranged champions naturally have lower movement speed. What you're asking for is to give Kennen special treatment. Literally any ranged champion would get run down by a Nasus if they lacked real CC. > This also doesn't factor in the fact that Kennen has no survivability. He only manages in lane by relying on his opponent never interacting with him. If his opponent does manage a single interaction with him, he's either going to die or be forced out of lane, and there are very few top laners who don't have the ability to do so. This is part of his counterplay. Why should Kennen be ranged, mobile, AND capable of tanking decently well. He must have tradeoffs as all champions do. I'm not responding to deny all his downsides, but to say that his strongpoints are suffocating. I disagree on there being few top laners incapable of interacting him, but that depends on the length of the game. Once top laners have items, I feel they can actually force on him with their increased durability. It's at that point that I can agree. > Darius, for example, has 62% win rate against Kennen if he takes Phase Rush, but only 51% without. Kennen dies every time Darius has Ghost up or gets hit with an Apprehend, because he can gets blown up and can't escape while he has the extra movement speed. 51% https://imgur.com/a/RqFnq2p . This is also another situation where Kennen should be blown up. Given the difficulty of catching him, he should die or be chunked out when caught. The only alternative to this would be him only taking a moderate amount of damage when caught. So, why should he only take a moderate amount of damage? > Either way, it's impossible to discuss because he dumpsters bad players. 99% of low elo players panic when they take auto harass and try to retreat, instead of trying to trying to engage, which guarantees that you'll lose. Which is why Kennen's winrate ONLY increases all the way up from Bronze(48.69%), Silver(49.22%), Gold(50.45%), Plat(50.73%), and Diamond(51.12%) to Master(51.55%)? I've played ranged champions before so I know the difficulties associated with them, and they're not as easy as many people claim. I know the issue of feeling like you have to make 100 successful trades to kill your enemy laner, but being forced out of lane or dying if they ever win one. Believe it or not, surviving ranged champions is significantly easier than learning them. All this said, why are you people arguing against me so hard? Even ignoring how toxic his kit is, Kennen is a 51% WR champion that is in no way qualified for buffs.
: How do I counter hard cc? (Stun team dominated)
In addition to what everyone has already wrote, I want to say dodging. It seems obvious but the best way to avoid being CC chained is to keep your eyes on whoever is in range to CC you. If there are multiple users in range to CC you, focus more on whoever has the more reliable/faster CC. This is how you should prioritize what enemies to watch. Looking at their team, it's very likely that majority of CC chains were began by Lux like you said. You also cant be CC chained by Lux, Swain, Senna, and Yuumi if half of them are nowhere near you, so forcing them to split up by split pushing works too. Imo, the ideal setup for this matchup would've been leaving Ryze to defend mid with his waveclear, Trist to break bot's turret then Aram mid, and letting Akali try to push towards the top's inhibs. Outside of Jax, I don't think any of those champions should've posed a threat to Akali.
: > [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T08:06:42.047+0000) > > Rush has a base CD of 10 and drops to 6, the CD is incredibly low relative to majority of top laners who often have 15+ seconds on their engage tools. It also lasts 2 seconds, which isn't short for League. Again cherry-picking the worst possible examples to make a fallacious argument. Jax as an example has a CD of 8 to 6 seconds on leap strike before CDR, and he does not have to wait for energy to recharge to use it.
> [{quoted}](name=Darth Sucadic ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T08:22:17.450+0000) > > Again cherry-picking the worst possible examples to make a fallacious argument. Jax as an example has a CD of 8 to 6 seconds on leap strike before CDR, and he does not have to wait for energy to recharge to use it. I said MOST. Just because there are champions who're more mobile, does not mean Kennen is suddenly immobile. Jax is regarded as hypermobile by a large number of players, so the fact that Kennen has CDs on par with a hypermobile champion should tell you how mobile Kennen is. Not that I'd consider him hypermobile, but somewhere in-between it and the word "mobile." True cherry picking is taking 2 sentences out of an entire paragraph, not cutting this: >No. You obviously never played him. His lightning rush uses half his energy bar and has a long cooldown. It lasts a very short duration and gives him zero protection against slows or other CC. A Kennen with his E on cooldown is a free 300 gold for anyone nearby. Down to this >has a long cooldown. It lasts a very short duration and gives him zero protection against slows or other CC. A Kennen with his E on cooldown is a free 300 gold for anyone nearby I didn't bother referring to the cost because a Kennen player can very easily adapt their playstyle to always have energy for his Lightening Rush, and there's literally no argument to break in the rest of your post.
: > [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-15T07:44:14.290+0000) > > Kenen's mobility is hardly limited. It's literally what makes him so frustrating in comparison to other ranged champs. You will never catch a Kennen unless he lightening blitzes into you or your team. If anything, I'd increase the cooldown on his mobility. No one wants him to be a strong champion because he's aids. I like how kennen is considered mobile yet Garen isn’t. -.-
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-11-15T07:57:48.246+0000) > > I like how kennen is considered mobile yet Garen isn’t. -.- Kennen literally doubles his speed, Garen gains 30% more. As in, Kennen is practically 3 times as mobile as a Garen if we ignore builds. Besides, I'm not of mind that Garen is immobile and it's clear if you look at the threads I've posted.
: No. You obviously never played him. His lightning rush uses half his energy bar and has a long cooldown. It lasts a very short duration and gives him zero protection against slows or other CC. A Kennen with his E on cooldown is a free 300 gold for anyone nearby.
> [{quoted}](name=Darth Sucadic ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5d2x58yY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T07:49:18.694+0000) > > has a long cooldown. It lasts a very short duration and gives him zero protection against slows or other CC. A Kennen with his E on cooldown is a free 300 gold for anyone nearby. 2 lies and 2 truths. Given that Lightening Rush has a base CD of 10 and drops to 6, the CD is incredibly low relative to majority of top laners who often have 15+ seconds on their engage tools. It also lasts 2 seconds, which isn't short for League. Similarly to how a 2 second root would be considered long. For the truths, the devil is in the details. It doesn't really matter that Kennen doesn't become immune to CC or that he's a free kill when his Lightening Rush is on CD. Why? Because most melees would have a difficult time exploiting these flaws. Their engage tools often have longer CDs than Kennen's Lightening Rush, so how can they punish him if their engage tools are also on CD? A Kennen will only use Lightening Rush if the enemy used their engage tool to reach him, and is a terrible player if the enemy managed to reach him any other way. What does it matter if Kennen's Rush doesn't give him CC immunity when he's not even in ranged for CC to be applied to begin with?
: Can we talk Kennen
Kenen's mobility is hardly limited. It's literally what makes him so frustrating in comparison to other ranged champs. You will never catch a Kennen unless he lightening blitzes into you or your team. If anything, I'd increase the cooldown on his mobility. No one wants him to be a strong champion because he's aids.
: Smart Mute
Cool idea, but the spiteful players within this playerbase would abuse it. THOUGH, even with that abuse accounted for, smart mute would still be effective. Either it's abused and you practically have fullmute automatically enabled, or it's used correctly and only your toxic teammates are muted. Either way, toxicity is silenced. 10/10 idea.
: over stated/buffed/nerfed champions
I agree overall, but disagree on the specifics. I don't like how Riot tries to push champions into pro-play only to gut them later if it's a success(Karma, Sejuani) or let them terrorize SoloQ if it fails(Ekko, Kha'Zix) and I doubt anyone does. Worse yet is the context surrounding these actions. Riot has recently been making a slew of champions designed for proplay(Panth, Qiyana, Sylas, Akali, Aatrox, the list goes on), so why exactly do they feel the need push more champions to proplay? Them making champions like this already gives us the short end of the stick, so why do they go further? Because they want more variety, which is cool, BUT the catch is that the champions they designed for proplay are WHY there's no variety. There's no variety because the champions they INTENTIONALLY designed for proplay are, surprise, so good for proplay that they stifle the competition. This problem with proplay is literally self-inflicted and yet they make SoloQ players suffer the injury.
: Thresh is closer to a 'fling' in regards to swain/skarner. His Q funcions like Swain's E+passive, and his flay functions much more closely to a 'fling'. Taliyah is another candidate.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zt5WwQBq,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-15T05:44:09.407+0000) > > Thresh is closer to a 'fling' in regards to swain/skarner. > > His Q funcions like Swain's E+passive, and his flay functions much more closely to a 'fling'. > > Taliyah is another candidate. That's true but Swain's purpose isn't just to swing. It's to provide synergy to the team. For similar reasons, I'd also consider Sivir an ADC candidate because her speed boost would make the team more threatening. Taliyah jungle would 100% be a better choice though. Thematically and literally.
: > [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QkEELWuh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-15T05:12:59.334+0000) > > He's a very boring champion with no real depth. I'd call him the Garen of the jungle, but he's literally more boring than Garen. The only interesting piece of his kit that requires a brain cell to use is pillar. Plenty of boring champs, why can't trundle be viable like the rest :(
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QkEELWuh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-15T05:15:47.486+0000) > > Plenty of boring champs, why can't trundle be viable like the rest :( Trundle isn't weak numbers-wise. It's that he has a kit problem. Buffing his numbers could only make him viable, e.g. having high success in this meta of mobility, if it simultaneously made him oppressive. It's the trend with simple champions. Look at the issues that rose from the Malphite, Tahm Kench, and Garen buffs this year. Honestly, even top lane Volibear has this air of oppression because you're 100% losing half of your HP if you get too close to him.
Weensw (NA)
: If you want to play a fling comp for fun, what lanes can those hero go?
Urgot mid, Singed top, Voli support, Swain adc because of his passive pull, and Skarner jngl.
: Save Trundle
He's a very boring champion with no real depth. I'd call him the Garen of the jungle, but he's literally more boring than Garen. The only interesting piece of his kit that requires a brain cell to use is pillar.
94372148 (NA)
: Why do assassins, a class that's supposed to do BURST damage, consistently have the most dmg overall
Having burst doesn't mean you'll always have the least damage. The point to note is that assassins snowball, thus they're likeliest to be the most fed members of your team. The majority of the times you read damage charts, the most fed member will be your number one damage dealer. That aside, some of the champions you listed do DPS. Akali, Yasuo, and Fizz.
: Mordekaiser is too oppressive in lane and the rest of the game
morde isnt oppressive. He's gated by very delayed skillshots. you can 1v1 a fed 10/0 morde assuming you manage to consistently dodge his skills.
: Just dodge the stun...???????? The only way he can engage is through the stun until he has lich bane or something.
> [{quoted}](name=Shleelpboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mIArZZAI,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-12T23:56:34.796+0000) > > Just dodge the stun...???????? The only way he can engage is through the stun until he has lich bane or something. The snag is that Ekko can send out his stun without giving you the opportunity to intentionally dodge it. You'd need to have vision in the fog of war, which is literally impossible, to avoid these scenarios, thus it's often literally impossible to "just dodge."
: Ekko's passive trigger needs better visibility
It's extremely clear. He starts running fast, the color blue begins to trail him, the enemy loses the passive stacks and gains a circular timer beneath them, and there's even a loud sound effect when it's triggered. How can you miss these cues???
Layzur (NA)
: I find myself perplexed when I look at the changes listed for (pre)season 10.
I read it all and agree with 95% of it. Supports are getting knee-capped early, gutted late because a lack of gold generation, and even their supposed mid-game buff is somewhat deceitful for the reasons you wrote. I agree with all of that, even the points about passivity, but I don't think they're going to simply sit back and watch their ADCs farm away 24/7. Yes, they're being encouraged and forced to play more passively THOUGH that doesn't mean they become passive. It's like sticking magma into a freezer. Technically, it'll become colder, but describing it as cold would be a mistake. The reason behind these changes are to give ADCs a stronger impact on the lane, and I think they're fulfilling the goal well. Like you said, using abilities off CD will result in you going OOM, which means more breathing room for ADCs, and an ADCs autoattacks will now stick hard onto Relic users, which means they gain more lane impact and incentive to trade. I do believe supports should receive more compensations at later stages of them game though.
xelaker (NA)
: you don't need health if you smash the other person to death...
> [{quoted}](name=xelaker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gipFRkn5,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-11-11T16:04:56.190+0000) > > you don't need health if you smash the other person to death... You can't reliably smash the other person to death if your HP is too low to take the risk.
νsco boi (EUW)
: Is it a good idea to create a fresh account for ranked?
Assuming you can go on decent winstreaks(like 4/5 or 3 games at a time) without having consecutive losses in between them, your MMR will probably stabilize sooner than the amount of time it takes to hit level 30. I believe normal LP gains are 20-25~ish. I still think starting fresh is overall more advantageous though.
: Sad to say this, but the Akali is a rework failure
akali would be fine she had more counterplay built into her kit. instant q that may as well be point and click, shroud that forces you to back up, slow on q, passive movement speed, a recastable dash, and 2 lane long dashes on her ultimate is just too hard to keep pace with. What Akali needs are adjustments to the speed of her spells. If Q were slower, it could actually be dodged, and you'd be able to punish her usage of W if there a delay after it were casted. If high elo thrives on punishing errors, the obvious solution is to make Akali punishable/unreliable then compensate her with number buffs.
xelaker (NA)
: Even if you don't play a champ that "falls off" you still will as the game goes on.
Yea. I see fed teammates do this all the time in 40+ min long games. It's like, sure your stat-line may say 17-4-11, but that 6/10/9 Jinx you've been bullying all game is now full build just as you are. Unless you somehow managed to exceed the item limit, please don't try to solo that Jinx & her midlaner. Your KDA means nothing at such a point. Only exception to this rule are champions that can instantly pop enemies and then move onto the next(such as Fizz), players that **completely **outclass their enemies, or when you're up against skillshot-caster champions such as Lux because these 1vs2s are very feasible if you're good at dodging.
: Anybody else feel like top lane is going to turn into the Sanguine Blade rush lane?
Yes and no. It gives no HP, thus making its users weak against burst and easy to pressure(this includes off waves). I do believe it will 100% be a problem though because there are champions who can mitigate its HP issue through their trading patterns. Kled, Renekton, Kennen, Pantheon, Camille, Irelia, and _maybe _Riven. The common theme between these champions is that they all have an easy time initiating one-sided trades. Who cares if your enemy has 250 more HP than you when your one-sided trades leave you unscathed? You taking a single successful/one-sided trade with this item essentially means it then has more worth than any HP item BECAUSE that item's HP is now gone while you still have your lifesteal and strong all in. Renekton's usage of this item worries me most of all. Due to how his trading pattern works, an unfed Renek can take 30%+ your HP without giving you a window to respond. As of now, he dashes away like a coward after making these one-sided trades. That's because he has nothing left after that. BUT with this item, not only would he do more DMG while you're stunned thanks to lethality and attack-speed, he'd also be able to trade autos such as a Tryndamere, Irelia, or Kled does. Maybe Garen is also a monstrosity with this item, idk, but it seems to have positive synergy with him. Attack speed strengthens his spin, innate tankiness means lifesteal is more effective, and his passive regeneration allows him to recover even if he isn't allowed to lifesteal off of waves.
: Noc is legit the most broken champ in this game.
Just wait until you have to fight Noct in the top or mid lane. People sleep on Lane Noct because he raises the question "how can a Noct reach me," but, from personal expierence, he can and WILL reach you even without ult. Noct is a giga-lane bully that could right-click even a Darius to death.
TehNACHO (NA)
: PSA: Grievous Wounds reduces enemy healing by 40%
Tell it to the ADs of the team especially. It's annoying to see ADCs/Bruisers/Juggernauts/Assassins complain about healing while being unwilling to spend 700g for anti-healing. Bonus points if those same players have the audacity to suggest you build Morello. Worst yet is that mages are suggested to build Morellos far more often than ADs are suggested to build Executioners.
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mAqkebNa,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-11-09T03:11:29.799+0000) > > Devil's advocate, you're only choosing two different sides of the same extreme. There could always be the opinions of "The current Damage is fine" and any of the opinions between the status Quo and either side. Some people could think damage is too high for select champions, others could think some champions don't do enough damage, and there could be any mix of that. > > Those status quo people are less likely to be heard, because they are fine with the current state of affairs and feel no need to voice their opinion. Satisfied people are far less likely to leave a review compared to people with extremely negative experiences, or extremely positive experiences. Hence, there's always the chance that you tend to hear a vocal minority, compared to the silent majority. With 88 million players still, the 20,000 people you may find combined on Reddit, the boards, streamers and youtubers, can give the impression of a relative small fraction. > > That's not saying I know what all 88 million players think, and that small fraction of people are instantly wrong. But what I am saying, is you need to be aware that just because people are talking about it, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. That would also imply anything complained about by anyone on any game is a minority. I have an issue with matchmaking, but I don't bother talking about it anymore because I know Riot won't change it.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mAqkebNa,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-09T03:16:12.128+0000) > > That would also imply anything complained about by anyone on any game is a minority. I have an issue with matchmaking, but I don't bother talking about it anymore because I know Riot won't change it. The boards/forms/reddit are also the only source of feedback regarding thoughts on the game's damage as far as I know. Maybe they've had polls/questionnaires in China or something, but the client has never asked me how I feel about the damage. You work with the information you have, not what you don't.
: Can Preseason introduce the removal of Mage supports bot lane?
Spelltheif's is getting changed to their detriment(no mana regeneration and less gold income during the later stages) so their presence may drop. Tank sups and sups that don't need items are pseudo-buffed.
: Kayle is as stupid as Akali at this point
Agreed. Kayle's safety is similar to Akali's, but it's effectively stronger on Kayle because Kayle can get ahead of everyone else on the basis of scaling alone.
Viyoke (NA)
: Can we nerf vi already
Agreed. Vi has been very strong ever since her mini-rework, but simply overshadowed by the amount of junglers that Riot has broken this year. Earlier this year was Jarvan alongside Rek both whom Riot had to nerf after buffing, next, Hecarim who was 53%+ after Conq changes and direct buffs, lastly 54% Nunu wr after indirect buffs, then he got the chopping block. Vi's minirework occured alongside the buff that pushed Nunu above the edge, but both went under the radar because the Scuttle Meta made Xin & Lee FoTM picks. That covers the first half of this year I think? After Nunu, Dr Mundo & Noct got pity buffs that pushed them around 52/53~ish% + WR, but neither had time to become FoTM because Kha'Zix and Ekko were soon buffed into what they are now. Honorable mentions for the short periods of brokeness that Shaco(53%+ for a single patch) and Amumu(53% for about a single patch) had. Throw in Malphite for his huge presence and oneshots despite never being broken statistically. The thing to note is that Vi has kept pace with all of these strong champions as she's consistently been 52-ish% WR throughout it all. Go through her WR for the last few patches. Once Ekko and Kha are nerfed, she will 100% dominate the jungle assuming they don't break another jungler in the same patch or the next.
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R0ses R Red

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