: Perhaps the real reason the damage meta ruins the game.
: And Trist top has a 47.7% winrate and less than a 1% pickrate. Which is absolute garbage no matter how you look at it.
: > [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WcE9QLHR,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-21T20:27:30.915+0000) > > Every champion that builds a dirk starts with a long sword. > > No champion that builds tabi’s or seekers starts with ANY of those components. > > So using your logic, anyone playing against someone who builds lethality is 350 gold behind them at the start of the game. > > Also. I love how people still try and argue that seekers counters assassins. No. It doesn’t. It just makes them target the adc harder. Oh what’s that? The adc rushed a ga? Cool, now the adc is behind in damage and your team wins. Congrats. I don't think you understand the changes to assassin items at all
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WcE9QLHR,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-21T15:50:03.070+0000) > > Hmmm, sounds like stuff a mage can do also. There is no mage jumping over 4 walls, instant killing an adc, stealthing, then jumping over 4 more walls.
{{champion:103}} {{champion:142}} So we are just casually gonna ignore both of these. If you seriously think Talon right now is jumping over walls and instakilling adcs off the bat, you've got other things coming. Especially the instakilling adcs.
: Can we finally buff Braum now?
He will be fine if anti-poke/passive sustain were to ever receive the help it needs. Health Regen is ass, Specters is ass, and Doran's Shield is a walking joke.
CurS1VE (NA)
: Wait...Ashe has a 55% WR???
Interesting, because on all of my accounts most of my Ashes have inted or done nothing. My teammate could hover her and i'll still tell them find someone else. High winrate or not, the lows of those losses are as about as bad as drafting Kass into 5 AD champs.
: Anyone notice the preseason changes
Is anyone like you just gonna continue to ignore the fact that with the lethality item additions comes a penalty that will damper hard stacking Leth? Considering the track record with Mages being everywhere, probably not.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WcE9QLHR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-21T02:49:20.420+0000) > > But it punishes AD assassins that fall behind because of how they are built in the season How does giving more opportunities to instant kill someone make them weaker in any possible situation?
Hmmm, sounds like stuff a mage can do also.
: Mix of ad also effecting towers, minions, jungle, ad being universal, hp being effective against mages but not against ad, spells can be dodged autos can't. Armor items have the better passives, movespeed buff or damage or slow. Spirit Visage only competes if the champion has built in sustain and other two tank mr items have low hp for no reason.
And their effects are niche. Adaptive is good against DPS mages, but the effect barely dampers that DPS mage's damage anyway because their rotation would already be in the process of killing you before it reaches max potency. Abyssal requires magic damage, but the build path is such a huge gold sinker, and the completed stats being quite sad. I've been saying this for a while, but they need to rework Tanks and their items, and add more MR itemization. On top of that, nerf the passive on Deathcap, nerf Ryze's AP to mana conversion late game, and nerf Void to 30% or 35% (if you make % pen half total half bonus, so people dont go sadly into the negatives a ton).
xelaker (NA)
: Why does nobody build mr?
Nothing can be done if said wizard already starts taking a dump on you with high base damages. Also MR items just generally suck. There's less of them around, and most would be purchased on a tank, which then drives the point home the item sucks, so then you come to the current situation. Spirit, Wits in some cases, Qss (full upgrade) and Maw are the only really good MR items, but a simple 2800 just shuts them down completely (which knowing mages, isn't hard to farm and obtain) I could be a Garen with 180 MR, and that Ori or Ryze will still deal 400+ damage.
: [She is doing pretty well right now.](https://u.gg/lol/champions/kayle/build) I believe that last bit is the primary weakness, though. You have no frontline from the lane that is generally supposed to be frontline, which, of course, means you tend to have no frontline at all. It's one of the (many) reasons that ADC tops are universally garbage.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=77y0NezE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-21T14:28:48.256+0000) > > [She is doing pretty well right now.](https://u.gg/lol/champions/kayle/build) > > It's one of the (many) reasons that ADC tops are universally garbage. Except when you start looking at this meta and Trist top. Her lane phase is uber safe, she crushes any melee matchup that lacks a gapcloser (or even has one), and she abuses Demolish with her E. Its not batshit riven tier broken, but fighting it is like fighting Heim: You dont exist. Ruining that frontline's lane phase makes them susceptible to being murdered faster. That was the very reason why Klepto Top Vik was god tier towards the end of last year, paired with his buffs.
Magikrap (NA)
: Kayle feels pretty absurd right now, I've been spamming her and I can't find a weakness.
Two problems with her. One is how much her W paired with resolve and inspiration becomes a saving grace that makes her lane super safe. This is an issue we have seen before, the last one being Kassawin to my knowledge. Her W mana cost should be reduced, however, the base ms and heal should be nerfed. The second being her Q. It should have shred scaling per rank, instead of the flat % it has currently. The problem that causes is the fact if you run armor to counter her autos, the mr shred puts you at about 20ish MR on most average picks, meaning that E is going to hit like a train, and vice versa running MR and not armor. She can definitely take a dump on Jax if he isn't careful.
: Pyke nerfs won't matter when new lethality items hit the live servers
Although, Aftershock will hit him hard with its changes. With it having less base stats, he will be prone to getting ripped apart if he fucks up.
: I play all roles. Top is my 4th favorite though, but that's due to aesthetics/champ choices, not due to the lane itself. P.S. What does that have anything to do with the previous conversation? You literally have a 54%+ Win rate on almost all tops. The ones who are generally team focuses you have higher win rates on. The ones who aren't (Jayce) you're losing hard on. You have one Garen loss in your last 20 games, and 6 Garen wins. Here's what's peculiar: #In NONE of your games have you been VERSUS a Garen. Are you yourself banning him when you are not planning to play him? Or are your teams banning him, forcing YOU to play other champions? Either way, you're biased, especially since most of your Garen games have a friggin 4-5 KDA. What's REALLY funny is, before his update, YOU DIDN'T EVEN PLAY HIM.
I've played Garen before his update, and he sucked. So why would I play him then if that would lead to me losing more than winning? But go ahead and call me biased, not like the community already dubs toplaners as biased anyway.
: Is AP Malphite not just incredibly unhealthy by design?
I mean, Tank Vik was unhealthy but everyone told toplaners to shut their mouths. AP Malph doesnt even come close.
: the only thing that changed about garens W was it got less free armor and mr and instead of a flat damage reduction it now scales with his HP so its actually weaker then what it was. he isnt as tanky as he use to be
the shield scales with HP. The damage reduction is flat. The thing making him strong is Conq's true damage.
Barso55 (NA)
: Veigar infinite AP scaling mechanic with a point and click execute is too much
I think his passive should just stack extra mana instead or something. Stackable non-item AP in these times is just a bad thing waiting to happen. Vlad could use a nerf to his AP to health ratio so he doesnt get uber tanky once ahead or late game.
Sageace (NA)
: I'm really confused on how Pantheon has that high of a ban rate. He's a good champion, but I never thought he'd reach the point of pro-play bannable.
Pros havent had time to get adjusted to him, thats why.
Moody P (NA)
: empQ bothers me more for how much versatility it has and how difficult it is to respond to. if he didn't execute you then its still a hefty nuke with a slow that lets him back up or keep chasing I don't mind his W so much
The problem with Q imo is the fact not only does the execute threshold give more damage to Q, but Mortal Will tacks on even more. Id prefer some of that damage power get taken out of Q and in return they buff his E. Its so easy to get behind that thing to the point why does he need to be slowed up to 50% late game. The slow max amount should lower per level mark, and be as low as 25% late game (if they want to keep the slow penalty)
: If toplane revolves around top lane? Redundancy department? The reason other lanes are percieved as "influence" lanes is merely because full team focus champions are often not chosen, played right, or are banned. I only mentioned 4 champions who generally control games from top. There are maybe 6. The noncontrol picks like Teemo/Quinn generally blunt the assessment that top controls games.
Tell me, what role do you play? Because if I had to take any guess, its not toplane. You haven't experienced how bad this lane is in high elo. It got bad to the point I dropped from D1 all the way to D4.
: https://u.gg/lol/champions/garen/build?role=middle Mid P.S. Your kind of logic is garbage. The game generally revolves entirely around the Top laner who WINS. Unlike other lanes, they can generally tank and need the attention of 3-4 players, do comparable damage or more than the other laners, and push more turret objective damage than other teams. Just because Top is generally a hard counter lane slightly influenced by the jungler, doesn't mean on a macro level, many of them aren't broken. Garen on AD/AS is 2 second killing people and the SIlence gives no skill use counterplay to it. Cho Gath is doing top team damage on a pure tank build. Kayle owns the post lane phase and can 1v5 Kled is one of the easiest to learn 1v5ers. Mid's don't do any of that. They hope their top laner/support can peel them, and they focus fire. Require a good team. Junglers (unless they are top champs) don't do that. They generally get cornered and killed if they attempt to take 1v5 initiative, and most can be killed 1v1. Supports definitely don't do that. Heals and Shields have been nerfed into the ground, so even if they do heal, they generally don't have the impact on a match matching damage dealers. Hooks only win vs 1 champ. Adcs don't do that. The "1V5" adcs all have catches: It takes Vayne multiple hits over a substantial period of time do pull off a 1v5, and she usually dies after killing 1-2. Kai Sai can't 1v5 at all, due to her mobility limitations, need to proc passive, and the time it takes to rotate. She's usually dead after one target drops. Jinx requires a good front line. Caitlyn requires a front line. etc etc.
If the game "revolves" around toplane, then how is it the worst role in the game right now? Oh thats right, Mid and ADC easily overshadow any work the toplaner does. A jungler can easily camp toplane and shut down any influence it could exert.
Bread Pit (EUW)
: Can you make Janna's Shield give Adaptive Power instead of just AD?
Heres the problem: You do that, whats gonna stop certain mages from exploiting it with Deathcap. Adaptive heavy favors AP in every rune that gifts it, but AD is favored in the damaging keystones. If its the same amount as the AD shield, then thats fine.
: Is there ANY reason to keep a champion shard that I'm already M7 with?
Just collect one of every champ. Thats the only thing I can think of. Other than that, you can save it in case shards get another use.
: https://u.gg/lol/champions/garen/build #1 even on U.GG
Lets be honest, toplane right now sucks, and has sucked for the past few months. That is how he gets away with being this high in winrate.
: Watching Garen as the highest ranked toplaner makes me want to hurl
I mean, toplane's in such a sad state thats how he can get so high. I wouldn't try to change too much for a nerf with preseason around the corner, cuz Conq losing its true damage will affect him a good bit.
: Hopefully, however, I hate it when they do these lazy a$$ gameplay tweaks like Wukong's/Leblanc's/Rengar's that end up not changing much. I think Diana needs a full on VGU, especially now that we're getting the second Lunari champion ever. Shyv is a strong contender yeah, all hail the Chinese investors. I don't mind Zil in my games, his kit may keep you on edge all the time, but at least he's not Nautilus. I just feel bad for the guy, he's one of the most neglected champs in the game and he keeps escaping their attention.
One of the problems with Diana is Moonlight. Like, this shit doesnt do anything meaningful outside of giving her R a reset. It should be the core mechanic of her kit when they rework her. Change what it does and help her return to the AP Fighter she wanted to be with the rest of the changes. If they help make her a fighter, you bet damn well I want to try her out.
: Content Warning: Unpopular Opinion I think {{champion:77}} could use a visual update if not a rework. He's very one-dimensional in my opinion.
I think his stances should do something spell related, then give an effect based on what stance he's in. Right now, all of his stances do their effects on auto attacks, and the passives are on the auto attacks. Would make him more fun and not have the world's greatest weakness to anti-autoattack shit.
HeartVine (OCE)
: {{champion:133}} - Has long since had little-to-no thematic value, and needs *something* to make them stand out as being a valuable choice in-game.
And make her go botlane. Quinn mains hate going top, and toplaners hate fighting Quinn.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WJPLE4N6,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T19:29:23.084+0000) > > Which is a kit and itemization problem. Might as well just state that she needs a full on rework to make it work? That´s how you generally fix issue´s with kits not matching the intended gameplay. As for items.....well that´s an entire branch that´s just missing but Riot is busy expanding on the lethality side.
Which is fine, because they are looking into Leth itself. AP Fighter/Bruiser itemization is a thing that will happen this preseason. They promised on it, and it would be disgusting if they went back on their word. They did mention they would do some work to her, which explains why they waited on doing any more changes after the one they put on the PBE long ago.
: What Are The Pro's to Playing Kalista?
She's bad in soloqueue. Her design requires her team to protect her, which is already a death penalty in soloqueue.
Comentários de Rioters
: I've seen Pant mid and as sup in proplay, but never as top so far...
Because teams favor Aatrox still for no reason. His healing is bad, his damage is bad, and his early game is godly atrocious. Also he probably works better in both those roles because he isn't shackled to the problem that is toplane being non-existent.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WJPLE4N6,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-19T00:53:25.188+0000) > > The problem I think they are going at is if she's ahead the current items she goes allows her to practically one rotation shot, which on a non-assassin is very unhealthy (she plays like one, but her design was AP Fighter first and foremost). She has never been able to function as a AP fighter, ever. She is far more like Rengar who was also intentioned as a fighter but ended up being an assassin while Riot washed their hands off it.
Which is a kit and itemization problem.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainAntiHeroz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WJPLE4N6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T01:27:15.137+0000) > > Master Yeet is a staple of league though, especially of the average low elo player so i don't think they'll touch him he's the iconic int champ You're probably right. And Tryndamere is literally the CEO's self-insert, so he's probably not getting any changes either, unless they're massive buffs.
Which he has gotten, which has put him close to 50% winrate, a thing a toxic kit like his should never be at.
: That explains his 48.2% wr
A toxic kit like his does not deserve 50%.
: diana lane phase is one of the weakest in the wtf are you on about
The problem I think they are going at is if she's ahead the current items she goes allows her to practically one rotation shot, which on a non-assassin is very unhealthy (she plays like one, but her design was AP Fighter first and foremost).
: Pantheon has a 100 % presence in worlds
Hes the only good snowball toplaner. Aatrox was the last until he got gutted to high hell.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tr4shB4NSYST3M,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=geQzEj7f,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-18T04:27:32.166+0000) > > Lol, imagine thinking gp is good rn U right, pros dont play good champs they are just picking GP for fun on the biggest and most important LoL tournament of the year! My bad!
Because its pro play. Since the meta revolves around bot or mid, they can pick GP because both jgs dont want to do shit for top.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wXZlmGqQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-18T00:29:51.547+0000) > > Why dont we just give her an execute on her R when the enemy is at 50% Hp? It would fit riots current game design.
I mean, it already feels like she has executes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mrs Qtpie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wXZlmGqQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-17T23:01:11.308+0000) > > Wow, and I thought I was a logical thinker. Thankl you for your contribution, Aristotle Incarnate. is kata even a champion if she doesn't get off 2 ultimates in a teamfight? actual serious question :/ literally that's the only time she works for me and my fingers aren't like they were a few years ago.
I mean, shes more annoying than Pyke in a way. One or two kills easily snowballs her unlike any other assassin, who would need at least 3 or 4. Sure, Pyke has his lane sustain and execution ult, but at least his damage has been nerfed (and his Q still retaining the charge bug), unlike Kat who was actually buffed from the runes reforged change. I'd rather deal with a Pyke than a Kat any day lol. Pretty sure Riot is better off making lane Pyke a thing again and tune him around it instead of support.
: [Idea] - Add a Teleporter between Top/Bot lane.
Last thing I need is a raging draven player coming toplane in it and inting kills because his support wasnt up to his standards.
: Katarina Is Too Weak Right Now (Unrefutable Logic Post)
Why dont we just give her an execute on her R when the enemy is at 50% Hp?
Neriticc (EUW)
: Why is Fiora allowed to win lane from level 1 with Q spam alone?
Because % max health true damage is a balanced stat.
: They threw it back in with cloud drake
Uh, not a good idea. Hopefully they make 4 cloud spawn less likely if they plan on going that route.
: Mountain buff is AR and MR Mountain soul grants an indefinite shield when out of combat ala {{champion:350}} style
Good. It doesnt need to be this disgusting objective shredder. Its pretty annoying when the enemy has 3 of them, and they luckily drafted a split pusher like Trynd. Good luck trying to stop him from backdooring your ass late game. lol
: hmm could of sworn she was a diver not an assassin like DIANA
Divers double tip. There are fighter divers, and assassin divers. Diana is an assassin diver because her general kit sucks if you try to build her like a fighter.
iiGazeii (NA)
: I hope the new Kleptomancy comes with an empty potion bottle
What would you do about multiple potions and elixirs, just have them stack?
Profirix (NA)
: Your changes seem a bit heavy-handed to mages. I get that damage is too high right now but that is a per-champion issue and less of an item issue. Removing all that CDR from mage items makes it so mages scale far worse and can counter resist-stacking a lot worse. The solution is to give mage items more diversity and perhaps unique effects that aren't just "here's more damage".
Wait. More diversity? I exactly recall mages bitching that there was too much, and they wanted their buildpaths to mirror assassins (aka streamlined), hence why the items got reworked.
: I know and that makes 40% cdr unachievable. IMO 40% cdr should be a lategame 6 item thing.
: so have mages lose all CDR? since you said that those changes do not include the removal of haste.. "small improvements" ok.. what are you going to give to all these items that you are essentially removing from the game? what are you going to give mages that you are literally getting rid of a stat that they need?
The removal makes it a buff. Some people would probably like having Ludens with their Glacial....
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