Comentários de Rioters
  Comentários de Rioters
: 2 major concerns. First: you say "Consequently, he won’t get AS for free when leveling up" i assume that's specific to the stealth since you mentioned it specifically but i want to double check you aren't taking away his normal AS scaling, as one of the champions on the higher end of base attack speed it would feel really fucking bad to do that. Second: The passive does not mention the ap ratio that the poison currently has, is that being removed? I'm not sure if it will be strictly necessary if you have other poisons on the target but it's not insignificant. Other thoughts Part of me wishes the increased damage to shrooms based on level up was given as increased amount of tick time. The slow wouldn't even need to be increased. This would encourage liandries as an option to build into shrooms specifically. liandries is good on teemo because of the shrooms but increased tick time but reduced overall damage would let liandries fill the gap so they could still be dangerous but only if you built specifically towards it, that said most teemo's build liandries every game so it wouldn't change much and the point of that change would be null and void. A while ago when items changed and i was playing him more i was messing with some builds, still was not a fan of standard shroom build at the time, i was doing a kinda assassiny build for fun, lowering the base damage and the ratio on q will kinda ruin that probably but i don't think that's a bad thing. I haven't played teemo as much as i used to but i've been swapping between on hit and shroom based builds. I'm thinking on hit might be stronger at least later if not in lane, shroom might be weaker though with less damage in the shrooms, they are harder to kill sure but most of the time if someone hits a shroom they just wait and back in place, if i'm losing damage with no real gain i will just get less kills. holding more at once is nice but if you were efficiently using them before it's not a buff.
1) You're correct, I wrote that a little confusingly but I was just referring to his live Passive's AS. He still gets normal AS scaling with character level. 2) Ratio is the same.
: Hello Jag, Just a quick thought/question. The E change actually appears to be an almost strictly worse version of Twitches Q. I am assuming that a large part of these early tests will be to gauge numbers and playability? Is there a passive portion to E that we are not seeing that makes this ability not strictly worse than Twitch Q? Second, I am guessing you folks are way ahead of us on this, but in an effort to not strip teemo of his uniqueness and add something to this ability I would like to proffer to ideas. 1) While not moving and using the active on E, the range at which Teemo's camouflage can be broken shrinks over time, eventually to the point where you basically have to path over top of him to find him. PEEKABOO! 2) Teemo is a scout. So, thematically, what if, while not moving and in stealth, he starts using his binoculars, gradually increasing his field of vision so that he can see attackers coming sooner and provide better vision for his team? Just some thought from your friendly neighborhood loon. Looking forward to seeing how this turns out! Regards, Tarcathos
-The fact that you can stealth semi-permanently is huge. All I can say is, try to play with it and see if you still have that feedback. -Open to the idea of Camo range shrinking, think it's pretty interesting. -Longer vision range is an interesting idea for sure. I'm going to consider that one.
Puddy (EUW)
: As someone whos been passionate about Teemo since season 3, please consider the following. I really like the stealth changes - it looks exciting and it'll be objectively a healthier spell. Right now i think the camouflage is quite good as you can easily burst a squishy and get out. I think this new version will be more accesible and all-round useful. Thats the best change yet. The unfortunate thing that will be going away with this stealth change is that there will be no more camouflage outplays. Stealthing in the middle of the lane and waiting for that squishy to show up, or stealthing in the side of the lane and waiting for the laner to walk into your mushroom isnt gonna be a thing anymore. I could totally see why that needs to go though as it can feel unfair to play against. The thing i massively dislike is the ap ratio and shroom changes. Currently and historically teemo has been awful at building AP. He rather builds magic pen because he just doesnt scale that well with AP. Liandrys + Sorc, Oblivion orb and void staff will give more damage then deathcap could. With the AP Ratio nerfs you are moving teemo from an assasin poison mage playstyle to a generic on-hit champion. Not only that but moving teemo away from his mushroom playstyle goes against what teemo inherently is. There is a dedicated playerbase who play teemo for his mushrooms, thats his identity. I dont think its fair to move teemo away from that. Mushrooms is what makes teemo unique, and is what makes teemo - well, teemo. Please please keep this in mind, his mushrooms are teemo. brainstorming here: What about making teemo's mushrooms leave behind a cloud of poison (when walked over) that slows and damages those who stand in it ? It would solve the instant damage issue but still make teemo able to zone enemies, follow up on good shroom placement and contribute in teamfights. It would preserve teemo's identity, but move away from what you guys find problematic.
Thanks for all that feedback, it's really useful.
: Two questions: * Can we get an exhaustive of what counts as Poison (and by elimination, what does not)? * Is the 50% amp on P just a binary on/off or does it stack *per* poison? If a target is already under the P dot, hit by Q and walk over a shroom, do they take 50% bonus damage, or 150%?
1) Cassiopeia Q/W, Singed Q, Twitch Passive, Teemo P/Q/R 2) On/off
: Give his passive an AP ratio and I wouldn’t mind at all
It has the same AP Ratio has E on live.
: One of the rare cases when I can get the dust out of my PBE account. When are these changes into PBE so I can start trying him out?
  Comentários de Rioters
: On a more champion related note: What are your favorite builds to use as her?
Lots of thoughts here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/oEEngRkl-what-do-i-build-on-kaisa
Erised (OCE)
: Did you ever at any stage of the design have the ult upgrade? I was thinking it would have been kinda cool if you had 100 IAS, AD and AP if the ult upgraded to do something cool. I understand that it might be busted or too much power but I was thinking it definitely causes you to have to build a suboptimal DPS build to achieve it.
I did, and I just ended up making it baseline since it made more sense (the shield).
Saixos (EUW)
: One point of AP is worth 21.75 gold. One point of AD is worth 35 gold. 35/21.75 = ~1.61 The scaling on Q is 40% AD 30% AP. --- 1 \* 0.4 = 0.4 < 1.61 \* 0.3 = 0.483 Q scales harder with AP than with AD. W scalings are 1.5% AD 65% AP. ---- 1 \* 1.5 = 1.5 > 1.61 \* 0.65 = ~1.05 Q scales harder with AD than with AP. ----------------------------------------------------- Your numbers are off. In addition, E scales far harder with hurricane. Shiv is second worst zeal item on her imo. I believe that the numbers Kai'Sa currently has result in your suggested builds and Kai'Sa's recommended items to be inefficient and generally a poor choice.
They function that way to ensure that each build still has good value out of each spell even when building in the other direction. W is magic damage and Q is physical so specific item choices that give both AD/ArP/Lethality or AP/Magic Pen still preserve the optimal spell/build pairings. Also your W math is quite flawed given that you're not counting the P value.
: If your goal is for burst damage, is it better to go ad or ap? Also in an assassin style build, would you want to still get atk speed items?
Burst damage at range is better with AP, up close is better with AD. AS items are still valuable in the assassin build for using the E to outplay imo.
: Did this change also stop {{item:3042}} Muramana from procing on each of the individual hits?
: From what I've heard each **INDIVIDUAL** q missile counts as a single target and gets the full healing from {{item:3146}} (rather than the AOE reduced healing). Is this intentional (if this is true) and do you see this interaction being removed possibly if its either too strong or unintentional?
Changed it so additional ones are classified as DoTs. Still has good synergy with Gunblade but I don't think it's broken. If it becomes too strong I can nerf it but I'm not too concerned.
: How are you going to respond if it's discovered that one build is the most optimal in every scenario? Being a purely offensive champion it doesn't seem unlikely that there will be a build with the best dps and power spikes.
I think it's a trap using the same common wisdom of "most optimal build" for Kai'Sa, since you can create distinctly different outputs with different builds. Some are better for bursting (Q first), some are better for poking (W first), some are better for outmaneuvering (E first), some are better for focusing tanks, some are better for focusing squishies, etc. That being said, if people feel like it's optimized one day, so be it. I imagine she'll still be enjoyable.
  Comentários de Rioters
: I think it's relative. Take Caitlyn; she's consistently one of the most played ADCs, but I think most people would say she's pretty stable/balanced, at times even underpowered, but there's still a solid number of people playing her at basically all times I've seen. She's an inherently popular champion. Meanwhile, a champion like Warwick has historically had a pretty low play rate, but had a ridiculous spike in play during late season 4. Warwick wasn't exactly an inherently popular champion (he has a small core fanbase and a bunch of people, myself included, eagerly awaiting a rework), so when he has a massive spike in play rate, it's usually because he's horrifically broken. Back to your example; Anivia is a champion that comes and goes from the professional meta (I think she saw a fair amount of play in season 2); generally now-a-days she doesn't get played (she also tends to have a low play rate in general). A lot of times she just doesn't fit in how the professional scene works; pro teams are more coordinated and pull off a lot of early plays and rotations, where Anivia is a champion that notoriously takes a long time to scale up. Compare that to Elise, who also comes in and out of the professional meta, but the advantages she offers fits with how professional games tend to work; she has a lot of early game power and flexibility, etc. If Anivia starts to see a lot of play in the professional scene, it's probably because her designed weaknesses aren't as apparent as it was when she was in a balanced state, where if Elise is seeing a lot of professional play, it's probably because how she's designed as a champion inherently fits with how pro players want to play the game. This could point to a larger problem where some champions don't really have a shot to see professional play, because the way they're designed doesn't fit with the professional scene. On one hand, the way the pros play the game is certainly not the only way to play the game, and certainly isn't the "correct" way to play the game (esp. when factoring different skill brackets; this is why when you see Uzi or Doublelift pick Vayne, you cheer, but when you're in Wood 3 and someone picks Vayne, you dodge. This is also why Katarina is the bane of my existence, but if you pick her in Challenger, people don't really care). On the other hand, and I think this is something that Riot is well aware of, it really sucks when you crush your way through lower elo playing Amumu, and then you hit a wall where you don't really have a path to succeed since people know how to counter hard engage (unless, of course, you're one of the very few mains who mastered the champion to such a degree that you crush everyone anyways, but again, that's the exception). I think Riot is generally in favor of diversifying the game, and their work, especially recently, has done a lot in that direction (maybe _too_ well, at least initially, with the Juggernaut update). Anivia seems a bit difficult, since I think a lot of people will point to her as a marvel in champion design, so I don't know that Riot will really look to change much about her. We'll see what happens with the immobile mage update coming up (which I'm really excited for).
: Well, for me Anivia is a Champ i pick if i really want to win since more than 3 years, preseason surly didn´t make her much stronger than she already has been. So for me it looks like youre only nerfing her since she gained a little popularity, not because you have conistency within your balancing. I might be wrong, but that´s really the way it looks. And I think the mistake you always will do is balancing Elise as a sort of tank...while right now i can just play her full ap in dominion and there´s not a single Champ in this game that i would not 100-0 if i land my stun on them (which isnßt that hard). She´s just fundamentally flawed since the first changes (when she was released she had been sort of a rbuiser, and that worked rather well), and anytime she´s played she´s broken. Also to go back to Anivia...I don´t oppose the nerf itself, she had been strong - the timing is just suspicious. What´s even more suspicious though is the way those nerfs occure...Brand, the most popular of the dot-mages gets a slight nerf to his mana (but hey, spiritfire is fairly new)..while Swain get´s his CC cut in half - as an immobile old man. I mean Swain has lots of issues, but his w does have good counterplay available...if you want to nerf him, why wouldn´t you turn down his e dmg? it´s undodgeable harrass, and a bigger issue for squishies laning against him than them being stupid enough to get caught by his w. I mean, it might all be in best intentions from your side, but the way it looks right now really doesn´t lead to much faith.
> [{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=0008000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-11T22:49:10.270+0000) > > Well, for me Anivia is a Champ i pick if i really want to win since more than 3 years, preseason surly didn´t make her much stronger than she already has been. So for me it looks like youre only nerfing her since she gained a little popularity, not because you have conistency within your balancing. I might be wrong, but that´s really the way it looks. > > And I think the mistake you always will do is balancing Elise as a sort of tank...while right now i can just play her full ap in dominion and there´s not a single Champ in this game that i would not 100-0 if i land my stun on them (which isnßt that hard). She´s just fundamentally flawed since the first changes (when she was released she had been sort of a rbuiser, and that worked rather well), and anytime she´s played she´s broken. > > Also to go back to Anivia...I don´t oppose the nerf itself, she had been strong - the timing is just suspicious. What´s even more suspicious though is the way those nerfs occure...Brand, the most popular of the dot-mages gets a slight nerf to his mana (but hey, spiritfire is fairly new)..while Swain get´s his CC cut in half - as an immobile old man. I mean Swain has lots of issues, but his w does have good counterplay available...if you want to nerf him, why wouldn´t you turn down his e dmg? it´s undodgeable harrass, and a bigger issue for squishies laning against him than them being stupid enough to get caught by his w. > > I mean, it might all be in best intentions from your side, but the way it looks right now really doesn´t lead to much faith. I think our data put Anivia going up nearly 4% in win rate with preseason - most likely due to the efficiency of RoA and the addition of Deathfire Touch. That's a pretty huge change. With Elise, our changes this year have been intended to balance her as more of a mage threat, not as a tank. The 5.18 and 5.16 changes both hit base damages, not ratios. Swain is just a tough guy to balance. He's kind of a drain tank, and he's largely about dot damage and healing, so nerfing the E seemed like the wrong thing to do there. The effectiveness of his CC seemed out of line with that type of champion, which is why we went with the W. I feel your pain there though, you could make compelling arguments to hit other areas.
: Also, could you quote what you're responding to like the other designers? It just helps a lot :)
> [{quoted}](name=shadowarcher6,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2015-12-11T22:13:54.646+0000) > > Also, could you quote what you're responding to like the other designers? It just helps a lot :) Got it.
: 1. State on Bard? Also gave you noticed all the players picking up Bard? 2. Why do you guys support zyra bot lane over midlane when she's intended to go mid. (Recommended items are for support) What are your thoughts on how the mandrake ward(It was released) would effect champions like Evelynn and twitch? (Your opinion)
> [{quoted}](name=shadowarcher6,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2015-12-11T22:03:16.459+0000) > > 1. State on Bard? Also gave you noticed all the players picking up Bard? > 2. Why do you guys support zyra bot lane over midlane when she's intended to go mid. (Recommended items are for support) > > What are your thoughts on how the mandrake ward(It was released) would effect champions like Evelynn and twitch? (Your opinion) 1) Oh man, Bard. Rarely do I see data tell me one thing that so heavily disagrees from my personal experience. I honestly feel like a Bard main is absolutely terrifying, but he can _so easily_ cause catastrophic failures for his own team that his effectiveness can vary incredibly hard. 2) I'm not sure if she's intended to go mid. I know we've tried to give both Mid and Support Zyra paths to success, but most people play her in a support role so that's where we recommend items for her. 3) I think it would be a fairly good thing for Eve to be honest. I'm not so sure her current form of favored counterplay (Pink ward + ward her jungle camps) is sufficient that we can leave in her tuning in a satisfying place. That's heavily speculative though.
Adalvar (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Jag,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-12-11T21:11:35.024+0000) > > I think triple crit builds seem optimal at this point, largely because they're bringing cool additional effects or multipliers (ER's CDR, or RFC's range increase) on top of pure damage. Crit needs AD to back it up, sure, but the nature of multipliers is that they can change in relative value as you get one or more of the other, so it's more like crit needs *enough* AD to back it up, it's not like your 3 item build is lacking AD with the 5.22 ADC base stat changes. > > I'm not so sure that AP items are gimped, but I do think the relative value of them has shifted who's strong. For example, building RoA or Liandry's has really high value now, since some of the other NLR items that had stat efficiency inflation has been brought back down to their level. Maybe this current patch haven't valued all of the item passives correctly. Keep in mind though that last patch the highest win rate champions in the game included Anivia, Malzahar, Brand, Swain, Twisted Fate, and a lot of strong AP mages. There was a Rioter (Meddler maybe, i can't remember) who talked about an overhaul to immobile AP mages. Would such an overhaul include an item pass, similar to the one done to AD items for more variety? As in creating multiple versions of Void Staff similar to how it was done to Last Whisper or revamping the CDR item lines (maybe replace it with the Lost Chapter line of items which was on Black Market Brawlers), which is one of the least interesting item lines atm. EDIT: Also as a follow-up to the crit item discussion, where does the leave Zeke's Harbringer? With 3 crit item-builds, having a Zeke's is sub-optimal since crit chance is capped and the crit differencial isn't enough to justify building it.
> [{quoted}](name=Adalvar,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2015-12-11T21:36:40.291+0000) > > There was a Rioter (Meddler maybe, i can't remember) who talked about an overhaul to immobile AP mages. Would such an overhaul include an item pass, similar to the one done to AD items for more variety? As in creating multiple versions of Void Staff similar to how it was done to Last Whisper or revamping the CDR item lines (maybe replace it with the Lost Chapter line of items which was on Black Market Brawlers), which is one of the least interesting item lines atm. > > EDIT: Also as a follow-up to the crit item discussion, where does the leave Zeke's Harbringer? With 3 crit item-builds, having a Zeke's is sub-optimal since crit chance is capped and the crit differencial isn't enough to justify building it. I think there's item tweaks in the working. It's still at an early stage so it may be just readjusting stats for items these guys would like, or it could be something new. Not much info on that one yet. I do think Zeke's is a little underwhelming atm. I'm guessing it needs to have some sort of more generalist multiplier (%AD, %AS?) now that 50%+ crit itemization paths are so common.
Retillin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Jag,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-12-11T21:41:35.070+0000) > > > 3) A lot of the decisions to nerf the "hidden OP" champs came from being fairly confident that these guys were WAY far out of line. We have a fairly significant amount of data demonstrating that these guys had pretty obscenely high levels of power in this patch. > I think the problem is, Jax is a beast right now with Rageblade. Yet just minor love taps. Swain/Malz/Karthus have a LOT of weaknesses and yet were nerfed. Some really hard (Swain). Why is there such major disconnect between these nerfs/non-nerfs?
> [{quoted}](name=Retillin,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2015-12-11T21:48:10.271+0000) > > I think the problem is, Jax is a beast right now with Rageblade. Yet just minor love taps. Swain/Malz/Karthus have a LOT of weaknesses and yet were nerfed. Some really hard (Swain). Why is there such major disconnect between these nerfs/non-nerfs? We nerfed Rageblade and may nerf it again, but I think we wanted to see Jax with fair Rageblade before we started whacking him too (we made that mistake in the past - refer to Sejuani/Cinderhulk double nerfs, for example).
: Whats your opinion on {{champion:121}}'s evolution path diversity? meddler said it was notoriously difficult to balance out meaningful choices for his evolutions, and making sure he isn't oppressive and always viable into everything you could pick him into have you thought about maybe trimming power from his evolved E, and shifting it into his base E so his evolutions open up and E isn't such a must have by level 11, and gives room to change around his other evolutions, notably R and W? he's never really been diverse in his evolution choices, it's just that the best path has shifted as he's been changed over the years.
Agree that he's never really been diverse. There's almost always one correct path and then a few wrong ones. We have played with that idea for E before, but it largely resulted in the same thing (one optimal path, this time never with E). I think for Kha'zix's evolution pathing to be in a state that isn't solved before game start requires each evolution to power him up along 4 distinct axes/contexts, each of which are likely to change in relative importance within the game. That's very very hard. Maybe not impossible though.
Retillin (NA)
: In regards to Anivia, (Swain/Malz/Karthus/ect...) if they are not dominating the game then having a higher win rate (being overpowered to some level) is okay. It's when we, as players, see a champion over and over again that we get frustrated. It's one of the reason people always seem to ask for more bans. They are just tired of dealing with the same thing over and over. When I see a Galio in game I worry. That is a person who, most likely, is good at that champ. That is a great feeling, to be and to fight against. But watching yet another Lee Sin/Yas/Azir/ect.. in a pro game makes me want to close the browser and look for something else entertaining.
I can understand that. Look at the dilemma here though. I believe you're arguing that diversity/pick rate variance doesn't always correlate to power/win rate (in this example, Galio has a high win rate but still isn't in a lot of games, which is okay). But then it is odd to contest an adjustment to their power if the reasoning is that it's ultimately harming diversity. We have seen people continue to play Lee Sin or Yasuo even when they're weak or strong - sometimes pick rate has very little to do with power, but instead is related to the thematics or fantasy of the champion.
: >In regards to Anivia, I'd ask you a question first - if very few people complained about her, but she was still incredibly powerful, almost unfairly so, should we leave her alone? Would we leave balance decisions up to capturing the tone of broad player perception? well, it´s sorta curios...as i i feel anivas powerlevel had been very similar throughout the last seasons (and yea, she has always been incredible strong, but also with the same weaknesses) - and the moment she see´s a little play at world she gets shot down...while someone with ~100%pick&ban like elise somehow flies under the radar.
For Anivia, the timelines are sorely mismatched here though. We're not responding to Worlds (that was 2 months ago), we're responding to preseason. For Elise, I get that she's still strong, but by no means has she flown under the radar - she's been nerfed more than once in the past few months.
: Alright, how about Lee Sin being a dominant pick and THE jungler to be for multiple YEARS straight? You don't see anything wrong with him always being present no matter the circumstance? Wait, no, there was a time when he could be considered "absent" during the Cinderhulk meta, arguably the healthiest and most accepted meta we've had in years...then cinder was nerfed repeatedly, it's users were nerfed constantly, and then Lee got buffed...conveniently before Worlds. Along with him, Zed and LB. Flashy playmakers that make flashy plays. You've probably heard every single tinfoil hat theory that we've thrown at you guys for being corrupt and esports focused, but you can't seriously argue with the history you've stretched out in front of us can you? You understand why a lot of us see you as a team that values flashy plays over healthy gameplay right? Let's talk about Cinderhulk for a bit just in general. At launch, this item was overpowered in itself, and Gromp buff didn't help much either. Excluding the outliers of Gragas and Sej, the later patches allowed champions who otherwise had no business being meta were actually relevant. Yorick of all champions was picked in the LCS. We had the most viable champions and the healthiest gameplay in years at the time, but then something happened. The spectator event was apparently "boring" with tanks running around ruining the flashy plays. Call tinfoil hat if you want, but think about it: when Riot is trying to push the esports scene down everyone's throats, they want to attract new audiences, and they do that with creations like Yasuo, Kalista, Thresh, Lee, Ekko, Leblanc - people that jump around all over the place and look cool doing it. Tanks don't do that which prompted even more nerfs. Then juggernauts happened. Jesus why? Why was nothing done about them for so long? You believe you're doing us a favor by holding off on nerfs because it's not fair the the pros who have been practicing with them? We're the community, not the pros who have been presented as players who can quickly adapt, not Reddit which is filled with a mindless hive mind of esports drones, and not spectators in general whom you seem to want to focus on pleasing. WE are the community, and WE were suffering through all of this while you watched Worlds go on. Only AFTER it was over was the thought of "oh this might be a problem" expressed to us. Let's fast forward to now, where we screamed bloody murder that the preseason patch would be a disaster up, down, sideways, and backwards, but nothing was done. Trynd, Yas, Graves, Jax, Soraka, the overpowered masteries, the broken items, the snowballing, the ever present Lee Sin (thank god he was fine with the preseason; how would we ever survive without him being in every other game?), Kench still needing a real nerf, Kalista still exists as is a kangaroo and had her damage nerfed to 90% to accommodate that disgusting hop, Morde doesn't belong in the bot lane...stop...just stop. Revert the rework and start over. I could go on for a while considering how much needs to be said but I think I should wrap this up. You're not addressing toxic mechanics and blatantly play favorites when you balance all while nerfing champions that don't need it while items and masteries are the problem, or in Rageblade's case, not fully grasping that this item is a problem and needs looked at immediately. You guys finally fixed the Shiv Cannon, thank God, but did it really have to take that long? I guess you needed to nerf Malz and Karthus first.
Ok, cool. Let's get into it! > [{quoted}](name=Keevalroy,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Nb4LwdZq,comment-id=000800000003,timestamp=2015-12-11T21:31:40.744+0000) > > Alright, how about Lee Sin being a dominant pick and THE jungler to be for multiple YEARS straight? You don't see anything wrong with him always being present no matter the circumstance? Wait, no, there was a time when he could be considered "absent" during the Cinderhulk meta, arguably the healthiest and most accepted meta we've had in years...then cinder was nerfed repeatedly, it's users were nerfed constantly, and then Lee got buffed...conveniently before Worlds. > I did address the Lee Sin example a bit earlier, but he has seen pretty major periods where he was not dominant (now, for instance) that we've been okay with. One problem with Lee Sin is that even when he shows up very heavily in the competitive/pro scene, he doesn't even get close to that power level for the vast majority of our players, since he has such a high degree of execution required to optimize him. When we did those buffs, he had been out of the pro meta for a good period of time, which meant that he was _really_ suffering for most of our players (he was one of the lowest win rate junglers in the game, even when he had one of the highest average games played). Again, I'll make the statement here. Lee Sin is for the most part a healthy jungler, even though there's been many times in history that he's been too strong. And he's an entertaining character that in my opinion makes our game more interesting and enjoyable. That _does not_ mean we keep him viable _because_ he's interesting. > Along with him, Zed and LB. Flashy playmakers that make flashy plays. You've probably heard every single tinfoil hat theory that we've thrown at you guys for being corrupt and esports focused, but you can't seriously argue with the history you've stretched out in front of us can you? You understand why a lot of us see you as a team that values flashy plays over healthy gameplay right? > This one I don't get at all. I think if you searched through most of the pro games this year, you would find Leblanc and Zed to not be nearly as dominant as say Viktor or Azir in terms of pick rate. That aside, it seems like you're creating a false dichotomy here between choosing between "flashy plays" and "healthy gameplay". I don't think we'd say someone like Zed has an inherently unhealthy pattern (I'd say he's fairly healthy for an assassin), but there's no reason why something can't be fair and flashy. > Let's talk about Cinderhulk for a bit just in general. At launch, this item was overpowered in itself, and Gromp buff didn't help much either. Excluding the outliers of Gragas and Sej, the later patches allowed champions who otherwise had no business being meta were actually relevant. Yorick of all champions was picked in the LCS. We had the most viable champions and the healthiest gameplay in years at the time, but then something happened. > > The spectator event was apparently "boring" with tanks running around ruining the flashy plays. Call tinfoil hat if you want, but think about it: when Riot is trying to push the esports scene down everyone's throats, they want to attract new audiences, and they do that with creations like Yasuo, Kalista, Thresh, Lee, Ekko, Leblanc - people that jump around all over the place and look cool doing it. Tanks don't do that which prompted even more nerfs. Again, it's really an issue of balance here. You can't argue with the level of power that Cinderhulk was giving to characters at the time. There are many reasons to like the teamfight-pacing presence that tanks give, but these champions had no tradeoffs at the time - they were becoming damage dealers with extreme durability and CC. On that topic though, no one was happier about the success of Cinderhulk than me - that project was the combined efforts of Fearless and I (mostly him!), and I was overjoyed at the spike in competitive diversity that the Cinderhulk patch brought to the game. But the theory that we chased away diversity by nerfing Cinderhulk is false. The diversity spike partially arose due to the uncertainty of solving the game at a pro level since we upended the meta (tanks in Jungle instead of top lane, so now carries in top lane, so now different types of supports/ADCs that have to deal with top lane carries, etc.). The pro diversity levels were already falling quickly in the weeks after Cinderhulk came out due to them solving the meta rapidly, before we even managed to get the nerfs out to the servers that pros played on. So while Cinderhulk as a disrupting force was positive in driving diversity, it couldn't ever hold that permanently - we have to keep making changes to the game to do that. > > Then juggernauts happened. Jesus why? Why was nothing done about them for so long? You believe you're doing us a favor by holding off on nerfs because it's not fair the the pros who have been practicing with them? We're the community, not the pros who have been presented as players who can quickly adapt, not Reddit which is filled with a mindless hive mind of esports drones, and not spectators in general whom you seem to want to focus on pleasing. WE are the community, and WE were suffering through all of this while you watched Worlds go on. Only AFTER it was over was the thought of "oh this might be a problem" expressed to us. > So let me say that I'm with you here. Our overall strategy with Juggernaut balance was not the correct one for LoL. There was a lot of stuff going on here between Champion Update and Live Gameplay trying to figure out how to keep these guys maintainable, and we've learned a lot since hten. > Let's fast forward to now, where we screamed bloody murder that the preseason patch would be a disaster up, down, sideways, and backwards, but nothing was done. Trynd, Yas, Graves, Jax, Soraka, the overpowered masteries, the broken items, the snowballing, the ever present Lee Sin (thank god he was fine with the preseason; how would we ever survive without him being in every other game?), Kench still needing a real nerf, Kalista still exists as is a kangaroo and had her damage nerfed to 90% to accommodate that disgusting hop, Morde doesn't belong in the bot lane...stop...just stop. Revert the rework and start over. I could go on for a while considering how much needs to be said but I think I should wrap this up. > > You're not addressing toxic mechanics and blatantly play favorites when you balance all while nerfing champions that don't need it while items and masteries are the problem, or in Rageblade's case, not fully grasping that this item is a problem and needs looked at immediately. You guys finally fixed the Shiv Cannon, thank God, but did it really have to take that long? > > I guess you needed to nerf Malz and Karthus first. I get that you're not happy with what's going on here, I really do, but let's examine what you're saying here. You really disapprove of our balancing strategy here in that we didn't nerf X very quickly. You also heavily disapprove of our balancing strategy here that we are nerfing Y very quickly. Isn't it possible that the reasons why we'd do both are similar? I really do believe your viewpoint is valid here, but I have heard the same exact feedback from different players, but they've switched "Karthus" for "Soraka". It's very hard to establish to everyone why something merits being nerfed to their full satisfaction - it will always feel really bad.
aperson1 (NA)
: You've got a pretty good track record. I don't want to knock on your teammates, but of all the Rioters I've seen on the Patch Rundown you're the one who most seems like they know what they're talking about. I think the changes you've done are pretty good and I hope you go on there to speak again soon. Anyways questions: 1. We all know the various statistics you guys commonly cite for your balance decisions: playrate, winrate by elo, winrate by games played, etc. What are some less commonly cited statistics you guys use, that we might not think about on first thunk? 2. A lot of balance outliers on the upper end feel like they have been hit pretty soft this preseason. I know Riot has committed to no longer "Olaf'ing"/"Eve'ing" champs but where do you draw the line between that and patches changing nothing about how the game plays? 3. I was surprised to see nerfs to high-winrate low-playrate champs a.k.a "hidden op" champs like Malzahar this patch notes. How do you choose which champions will receive changes? Has this changed recently? 4. You're probably not allowed to answer this but I've always wanted to know: which patch drove the most players away from LoL, temporarily or permanently? Thanks for reading.
Thanks man, I appreciate that. 1) A few metrics here that I really like are "win rate by game time" and "average experience level". The game time graphs will occasionally give us a very sharp idea of where to address a part of the character that is really out of control. For example, pre-5.18 Veigar tended to win a fairly small portion of games that ended at 20 minutes, and a fairly large portion of games that ended at 45+ minutes. After the buffs to his W cast time, we saw a fairly small change at the 45+ minute win rate, but a huge one at 20+ minutes, which was a large indicator to us that we had changed Veigar's power curve in a way that we were not comfortable maintaining. That directed us to looking at base damages instead of hitting the cool thing about Veigar that players really loved (the infinite scaling fantasy), and gave us a pretty solid foundation for doing so. The "average experience level" one is one that's really hard to convey to most players, but it basically indicates that if the vast majority of players on a champion have a huge amount of games under their belt, then we shouldn't look at a champion's win rate and be surprised if it's high. For example (these numbers aren't accurate, just using them to illustrate), if the average Riven player in your game has 70 games played on the champion, while the average Brand player has 15 games, it wouldn't be a unfair statement to say that Riven could have a higher average win rate than Brand and still be equally powerful. 2) That's a tough one. I think for preseason in particular we're aware that the game is very volatile and unsolved. Optimal item builds can shift (or be nerfed...), certain exploitative strategies may be removed, and most of all, preseason is a time to just have fun and play - so I think we're reluctant to instantly smack a champion in the face unless they're fairly far out of line. Which leads me into... 3) A lot of the decisions to nerf the "hidden OP" champs came from being fairly confident that these guys were WAY far out of line. We have a fairly significant amount of data demonstrating that these guys had pretty obscenely high levels of power in this patch. 4) I don't know the answer to that question. I can tell you that I felt a lot of the same way as players did in 5.16, that the game felt pretty far off in terms of balance compared to what we've done historically. Everyone has taken a hard long at what went right and what went wrong there so we can improve on that in the future, which to me is something that's cool about how Riot - we definitely have failures, but we do our best to make them mean something positive.
: Disclaimer: I do not agree with keevalroy. Anyway here is my take on what he meant: Why are champions like lee sin getting buffed or kept relatively untouched despite a lot of people thinking they should be nerfed, while anivia whom very few compained about is getting nerfed?
Lee Sin did get a small buff in 5.16. The previous _five_ patches that he received a balance adjustment before that were nerfs. I am a little puzzled that the assessment is that he is getting unfairly privileged to be at a high power level that is inappropriate. However, I get that he has been at at _stable_ level of power for a long time, and my answer to that is that I think he is a fairly healthy champion. He has a high level of execution required to succeed on the part of the Lee Sin player, he has some major weaknesses (particularly towards the late game), and he has always felt like a somewhat risky pick, even when strong. I don't speak for Riot's future balancing strategy here, but for my 2 cents, Lee is a cool champion that still gives his opponent options when succeeds, which to me is something we can maintain as someone who appears in a lot of games. In regards to Anivia, I'd ask you a question first - if very few people complained about her, but she was still incredibly powerful, almost unfairly so, should we leave her alone? Would we leave balance decisions up to capturing the tone of broad player perception?
: As an ADC kinda guy, what are your thoughts on the current Support/ADC relationship? I don't just mean this in a "Should the Support always go bot with a Marksman" but what do you see as the more interesting elements of the relationship when a support and ADC work together? What new things would you like to see introduced through items and champ kits to create new interactions between the two roles?
This is a really interesting one. I think the solo Q Support/ADC relationship and the organized 5v5 Support/ADC relationship are so incredibly far apart they may as well be different games. What's really cool about a good duo is that they both have to constantly take "trust falls" in lane to be effective - you have to make a move KNOWING that if you eat a CC your partner will use a summoner at the right time to make sure the play works. The problem is that in solo q the communication is so sparse that this goes wrong fairly often, unless you're just on the same page because your game knowledge is deep enough (this is one major reason why playing ADC is so painful at lower MMR ranges). There's nothing worse than having a trust fall where your partner doesn't catch you, and it can reshape your approach to laning in a very negative way. On the other hand, when two of you are on comms together and perfectly on point, it's incredibly rewarding and one of the best experiences in League of Legends. So, to bring it back to the designer's perspective, where do we want to strengthen the experience? Do we want to create solutions that make a better play experience for the low communication solo queue game? That would lead us to creating mechanics and items that have low coordination requirements, low failure rates, and correspondingly low rewards for success. Do we want to reward the mastery of a competent duo playing properly? Well, then this is a mechanic that has a very limited reach, as the vast majority of players will not be able to enjoy it as consistently. When CertainlyT had to figure out how to balance Kalista's W passive, or I had to figure out how to reward Zeke's Harbinger properly, these are some of the things we had to struggle with. Personally, I'd really love if we made another Conduit-style item like Zeke's, but opened the space up a bit for different types of duos (maybe a double melee dive buddy item, for instance).
Adalvar (EUW)
: What are your thoughts on the current triple crit item builds? Given the nature of crit it seems awkward to stack that many items, especially since crit needs AD to back it up. Also what are your thoughts on the how the pre-season changes gimped AP itemization. The large gold increases, coupled with the accelerated game pace makes it hard for some AP mages to have time to scale into relevancy, before the ADC/AD counterpart outscales them.
I think triple crit builds seem optimal at this point, largely because they're bringing cool additional effects or multipliers (ER's CDR, or RFC's range increase) on top of pure damage. Crit needs AD to back it up, sure, but the nature of multipliers is that they can change in relative value as you get one or more of the other, so it's more like crit needs *enough* AD to back it up, it's not like your 3 item build is lacking AD with the 5.22 ADC base stat changes. I'm not so sure that AP items are gimped, but I do think the relative value of them has shifted who's strong. For example, building RoA or Liandry's has really high value now, since some of the other NLR items that had stat efficiency inflation has been brought back down to their level. Maybe this current patch haven't valued all of the item passives correctly. Keep in mind though that last patch the highest win rate champions in the game included Anivia, Malzahar, Brand, Swain, Twisted Fate, and a lot of strong AP mages.
: Look, I'm not going to sugar coat this so I'll just come out and ask it: why does the balance team insist on protecting problematic champions and toxic mechanics by shielding their favorites from harm while healthy champions are nerfed for absolutely no logical reason? It's been getting _really_ bad over the last few months which is quite scary considering what's been done in the past two years. Just how much thought goes into some of these decisions?
I really want to talk to you here but you have to give me something way better than "why do you love toxic stuff and hate good stuff". Maybe give me some specifics on what you felt was off.
: Do you feel {{champion:119}} is in a good spot, he feels weaker during preseason to me.
He feels a bit weaker to me as well, probably due to other ADC's first few item spikes being much more powerful early (pre-5.22 Draven on BT + IE was terrifiying, now he's still scary but the MF or Lucian with ER + IE is doing comparable work). I don't know if he's in a bad spot or anything though. Him losing raw +AD spikes compared to old itemization probably didn't help either.
: Any thoughts on the type of champions that are known for their early power and then fall off? ({{champion:102}} {{champion:80}} etc.) They are certainly strong early, but the new flow of gold in the game makes their power window smaller, so I was wondering if any balance adjustments were planned. Thanks in advance :D
Hmm, that's interesting. I understand that their _maximum window of being ahead_ may be smaller (because gold eventually catches up), but we have put a lot of changes in place in preseason to push forward rewards for early aggression (towers falling faster, Rift Herald, vision changes etc). I think most of our evaluations say that a lot of early-game champions got a big boost since preseason (Shyvana went up in win rate, didn't she?). I think there are specific champions like Pantheon that may have some itemization problems. The crew on the Systems team is hard at work on that one.
: Wait, when did Lucian get reworked :I
We usually referred to it as a "mini-rework" (I just re-edited it). This was in 4.12 where we dropped his range by 50 and changed his E spell to reset on passive procs.
  Comentários de Rioters
: Have you guys given any thought to the weak laners top (Nasus et al) that took teleport for the ability to survive in lane as opposed to putting on map pressure? What levers are you putting in to stop early-game champs like Riven and Renekton from just dominating lanes, picking up Herald and snowballing games from there? And by the by, how many stacks is Herald going to give Devourer junglers?
Teleport is still plenty viable for those guys, but it should be a clear choice you take, with tradeoffs (i.e. I took TP to survive in lane and affect the map, not to pressure my opponent) as opposed to the requirement of top lane (i.e. I took TP because it was better at everything, including early lane because of Jungle->level 2 starts, etc.). Early-game dominance champions should have their own set of tradeoffs, which I think historically we've seen pretty clearly (e.g. Renekton falls off as the game goes on). Particularly with the Marksmen itemization changes we're putting in, I think champions that are all-ining on winning the early game should be rewarded for doing it successfully, because there are real costs to them failing.
tnwdAkinG (EUNE)
: How do you plan on balancing Rift Herald's buffs if it became too powerful in competitive play? - Radovan
Probably lean towards making RH's value relative to Dragon lower (possibly with respawn times or reorienting Dragon stacks).
: I can understand the reason why you guys didn't empower the defenses of the minions with the rift herald buff, but how would top laners respond to champions who have high waveclear, and can just delete the minions before they become an issue?
Those are the correct type of responses we'd like to have. Keep in mind though, that often champions with high waveclear will tend to be champions that are squishy (they probably bought AD/AP items to clear), and the 10% Damage increase on Doom's Eve will give plenty of threat as a response.
Pyro (EUNE)
: Can we have Baron eat the Herald if he stays alive up until the 20th minute?
: Anyone know if certain champions (like Shaco) will be able to solo the Rift Herald while others are destroyed? Probably going to be important to know who's doing that while top is completely unaware. (I don't have PBE)
Shaco is one of the few exceptions right now, and I think that's fine. Good for you, Shaco, you do you man.
: Maybe im wrong on this but to me it looks like the buff will be more impactful than an early dragon in the early game. You guys afraid this will lead to an early game where the jungler is top all the time? Or that top laners will require early powerful wave clear to counter a herald buff ?
I do think it will be more impactful than dragon in the early game, but I think that's only a requirement for the jungler to be top all the game if the team is particularly early-game centric (honestly I think the decision making will mirror the way a jungler would approach a top lane matchup that is early game focused vs late game). There is a worry here that RH may be too high in value compared to Dragon, even when accounting for the stacking aspect of the Dragon buff, and if that becomes a problem on Live, we'll adjust their values relative to each other. These types of changes may favor wave clear top laners to counter RH, but it also may just demand different strategic adaptations from your team (e.g. maybe you'll have to send your Viktor top for a few minutes to deal with the push).
: In your attempt to prevent lane-swapping, you reduced the damage the Herald takes from ranged attacks. You remember you have ranged top laners, right?
I did! But I think ranged top laners still have lots of value to bring (for example, a lot of them are actually better at winning top lane by bullying their lane opponent and therefore putting their team in a better position to secure Rift Herald control).
: Why did you prioritize Graves over Lucian in terms of an update? Do you feel the Rift Herald could potentially cause top smite making a comeback? On a scale, how strong is the rift herald buff compared to Baron? i.e.: 4 Rift Heralds equal 1 Baron?
1) Have to let some of the update dudes handle that q. 2) Nope, the Backstab mechanic is actually better at securing it than Smite now. 3) You'd probably rather have Baron Buff on 5 people than Rift Herald Buff on 5 people. The amount of global gold on Baron is also 6 times what Rift Herald's is (300 vs 50).
OtterPup (NA)
: There was something curious that I saw on reddit that I wanted to see what Riot thought about it. Way back in early league, duo bot came about for better early dragon pressure, and lane swaps were more risky because trading turrets and dragon pressure would usually give the enemy team a gold advantage if not played properly. With new dragon, especially with the first dragon buff being fairly weak before people get items, we saw even less emphasis on dragon and a bit more lane swap play because early gold was better then dragons if you could end the game before 5th dragon became a problem. This brings my thoughts to the Rift Herald. With the early game buff being fairly strong at taking towers and snowballing lanes, especially when early towers can be stronger then dragons already, do you forsee a complete permanent lane swap in the meta. Where both teams would in fact rather send their duo top to have better Rift Herald pressure, and see that taking over as the dominant solo queue play style? So instead of removing the top lane island, it simply flips it to the other side of the map. This is compunded by the fact that a duo lane with a tanky support would already have an easier time taking it with their jungler. This could even see a stronger rise in the duo jungle starting bot side or in the enemy top side, the duos fast pushing the top wave, and rotating for a 5 man herald take. What are your thoughts on the best lever you think would be to balance this? Weaken herald buff? Improve first dragon buff? Or would you be okay seeing this switch be the new meta for the game?
Nice questions. Would definitely prefer to not flip the map as a result of introducing RH. There are plenty of mechanics to make it suboptimal for an ADC to take (RH has -% damage from ranged attacks; Doom's Eve buff is % damage, so early game that favors base damages over scaling ones; the minion buff gives no defenses, so it's best used against champions with low waveclear), and we can go even harder on those. My suspicion is that if RH ends up really warping the meta on release in 5.22, then improving Dragon buff is the correct way to go (as you pointed out, it may already be too weak).
: So exactly how powerful is this Rift Herald? I've heard it mentioned as being an incentive to not teleport away from top lane so eagerly. But what exactly does it take to fight it? Can the average top laner solo it if he's left unchecked? Or does the jungler need to be called in as well? Is it worth trading for Dragon, generally speaking? And I'm curious about what it grants you, too - I believe it was mentioned as something to help push down your lane, but I'm just generally very interested to know what kind of advantages you pick up by grabbing that thing even if you're leaving your bottom half of the map out to dry. And further on the whole top lane/teleport thing, do you expect that we'll still see top laners starting at jungle camps and teleporting to lane, or double jungling, things of that nature, as a dominant strategy? Because frankly I've had about enough of that stuff. Of course, with Teleport being nerfed and Ignite/Exhaust being lauded as more viable for top laners to choose if they should want them, maybe that sort of thing falls out of favor entirely. But in the case that I do still take Teleport, is it still an option? Or has there been some kind of spawn timer adjustment or something else of that sort that takes it off the table?
RH is pretty durable, but getting the Eye Backstab proc off is a huge amount of damage, so taking it solo is considerably harder than duoing. It should be questionable in terms of trading for Dragon, depending on your team comp and win style (if you're an early game push team then RH will obviously be better). More details on the reward here: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/z44jEiXG-rift-herald-pbe-feedback-thread I don't think the top laner solo jungle start will work anymore since camps only give you level 2 if you have a jungle item. That'll push Ignite/Exhaust viability up a lot, along with the TP CD nerfs we have in.
: I'm curious if you guys are being careful about the rift herald and competitve laneswaps. With dragon being very rarely taken before 5 minutes, and it being the only real downside to laneswapping, is there a concern that this change will shift the meta in that regard? If so, is that a good or bad thing?
Definite concern there. Still trying to make sure that RH doesn't warp the pro game to be overwhelming the best choice before 20 minutes. Dragon may need some more clear rewards (we've been discussing whether or not Drag 2/4 rewards are doing what they're supposed to be doing here).
Garrotte (NA)
: How is the implementation of the rift herald not going to encourage toplaners to continue to only take TP? Further, will the Herald Buff reveal the jg if he tries to gank by buffing minions?
They may still take TP, but there's a clear cost to not having top lane control via combat summoners now, and TPing bot to gank and take dragon can have significant costs if RH is still up on the top side. Doom's Eve does reveal the jg if he buffs the minion, sure. The goal is for this buff to be optimal on laners, not junglers, so that fits in fine there.
OtterPup (NA)
: 1.) Do you think the removal of mana potions will see in an increase of play for early game power resourceless based champions (Riven, Zed, etc.)? Are you going to be more focused on innate mana regen to counter balance that? If so, will that see mages getting too much mana from items like morello or athenes to where they never go low on mana again? Also crystalline flask was left out of the notes, I wonder what will happen to that. If you buff mana regen to compensate the removal of mana pots, but leave crystalline flask untouched will that lead to too much early mana regen for a starting item? Would you compensate by bumping its cost or nerfing it's regen? You mention it in the most that the sustain is folded into refillable potions but that section is left a little vague. 2.) The first thing you mention is adding depth to six marksmen in hopes to get them to feel different. Can you give us some hints on ideas you had for changes with certain champions to emphasize this? Is Quinn going into full dualform or is valor being more removed for a more traditional ADC pattern. Is graves getting more close range with even higher shotgun based burst? How are you differentiating between the long range poke of Corki and Kog'maw? 3.) I know you guys have talked about crit and potential crit changes in the past. I felt like we got a taste of this with Ashe who has a very normalized DPS for her crit pattern. Will we see larger changes to crit similar to that, or will ADC's keep praying for RNGesus to win them trades. For that matter, it feels like every ADC rushes either IE, BotRK, or Trinity, most of them being IE. Will we see a larger expansion on items that could be rushed based on matchup such as with the juggernaut update, or are you just going to be focused on reworking and touching up existing items to make them more viable like with the mage update? 4.) Do you think the vision changes will make the blue trinket, one that already only had situational uses at best, even harder to justify since players will no longer have the option of buying basic wards to compensate if they wanted to? Sacrificing 3 wards on the map past level 9 for a short burst long range check every two minutes is a fairly steep cost. 5.) I love the idea of the rift herald. Don't have a whole lot more to add then that, just wanted to say I think it's brilliant. My only concern is since the meta is very top centric where top can take over and win games on it's own, do you think this will make them even stronger and put more emphasis on getting them ahead? Or weaker from pulling more jungle and mid lane attention? Tied into this, any ideas for summoner spell changes, specifically TP? I know there was a bug on the PBE where people were being shown to have three summoner spells, but is that an actual idea or just a bug. Also, would you remove TP as a summoner spell and move it to something else like a boot upgrade like we had for Black Market Brawlers? 6.) Speaking of Black Market Brawlers, any chance we see more of those items make it back into the game besides Dead Man's Plate. I assumed that game mode was to test some new item ideas, but was Dead Man's Plate the only one that passed the bar for being a good item? I loved a few of the other ones, specifically Martyr's Gambit and Mirage Blade. What did you guys feel about them?
I think the other guys here can cover Marksmen stuff (will just add that I'm a Marksmen main and I'm pretty happy with a lot of the itemization changes). I'll jump into Rift Herald since that was the bulk of my work for preseason. Yep, it is a concern that top laners may use this to take over the game. That being said, I think the state of having top lane carries stay viable is very brittle (in the pro game specifically: do you have the ability to double jungle for free level 2 + potion sustain? does the meta favor engage/tanky supports and jungles so the tops can build damage? are utility ADCs particularly strong to pick up the burden of bringing a pure DPS top? etc). RH gives firm ground for fighters and top lane carries/splitpushers to stand on, and it's a lever we can tune as appropriate to make sure those guys are fair. I think if jungles/mids feel like they need to care more about interacting with top then it's totally fine. We are trying to play up the top lane domination ("1v1 me bro") fantasy a bit, and let people consider taking Ignite or Exhaust instead of TP, but we don't want it to be an island. And honestly I think bot lane can use the relief of pressure a bit from mid/jungle attention (and top lane teleporters, for that matter). The boot upgrade idea is a real stretch, I gotta say. I think it'd warp SR pretty heavily.
: Hello! First, I just want to express that I am very excited at the changes you've announced/hinted at in your blog post. It is all very interesting! Second, I want to pose a question and I hope that it is not a problem that this topic was not mentioned yet: It is regarding Teleport(s): 1. What do you, in general, if anything, plan to do with Teleport? What are your thoughts on its current state? 2. Since you hinted at Items and/or Trinkets "evolving" and (sometimes automatically) upgrading to fulfill certain goals, has any thought been giving in somehow combining Teleport with these concepts? 3. Otherwise/related to all of this, what do you think about the possibility of turning LoL into a more "teleport-active" game? Be it with consumable items, Trinkets or whichever, is there any chance that we get Teleport as we see it in, say, DotA 2 (with TP Scrolls)? Whether Yes or No: Why? Third (larger topic): Can you say whether the new Keystone Mastery thing is comparable to the Role system in Dawngate? Thanks for your time!
1) Teleport is definitely too powerful, particularly in the pro game. We're doing some cooldown changes on it, but also Rift Herald features prominently here since there's a good reason to not TP away from the top side of the map. 2) We did try the TP boot experiment in Bilgewater. I won't speak for future plans, besides saying that was fun for a while but would probably warp the game heavily if it was in SR. 3) I don't think TP scrolls are out of the realm of possibility in the future, but no current plans. I wouldn't say Keystone Masteries are an analog of the Role system, they're more a revamp of our current masteries to hone in on what choices are really meaningful to a player.
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