Durzaka (NA)
: Im tired of seeing Kai'sa everywhere as well (especially in every pro game), but your argument as me confused. What is your list of win rates by people who Main have represent? The numbers arent absurd. They are pretty much straight par for the course for Main win rates, in fact I would say it is quite surprising to see someone ith a less htan 50% win rate on a champion that they play A LOT of and are considered good with. Most other Mains that i went and checked out hover between 52-57% win rate, depending on the champion,
It was moreso just a showcase of the more dedicated Kai'Sa players winrate to playrate ratio for anyone who was curious.
: Popular doesn't mean strong. It means popular. Being meta has none, and should never have, any kind of bearing on nerfing them. Champions should be nerfed if they are too strong. And no, she hasn't "overshadowed" other ADCs. You nerf her, she will still be picked, because she is one of two ADCs that can actually survive getting attacked by anything, one of the two that have any kind of agency over their own fate. Nerfing her damage isn't going to change that, and nerfing that safety just brings it down to one, making the class functionally useless. Other ADCs have been nerfed while popular, yes, but that was because they were *also* actually overbearingly strong, **not** just because they were popular.
What do most high elo player care about when considering champion choices? The champions strength. If she and Xayah are the most popular adcs right now what must they think about them? That they're the "best in slot" champions for their role, right? I think IWillDominate said it best when he described how pro players and masters+ consider playing a champion, essentially saying that they care more about playing the more meta champions in the pursuit of actually winning their games to get to the top of the ladder, saying "Everyone who wants to win in Korean soloq plays whats good in their role" and I dont think this doesnt apply to any other region as well, considering how high her pickrate is.
: She has a 46.7% win rate. How is she the best? No pick rate can possibly indicate she's the top ADC with that win rate.
That is until you realize her win rate is actually skewed by her pick rate being as high as it is.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: the post was good until you came to this: >Only two of every regions most devoted Kai'Sa players (top 5 in each major region) have a sub 50% winrate. like what the fuck are you talking about, this is true for every champion and do you want mains to have shitty winrates on their champs? lmao
My point in including win rates was also to show how frequently she was played, which in total among 15 people was nearly 14 thousand (13,968 exactly with the stats provided) games. and the average win rate for these 15 people was 52.13% which means out of 14 thousand games this abomination was picked, she won 7,263 if of those games.
Áery (NA)
: The champion is literally at a 47% win rate and recently had another nerf thrown at her. Her late game scaling has already been nerfed as she’s mostly an AS/On hit champ and her E is what put her over the top as her kit is pretty much similar to Kog’Maw and other on hit champions that rely on AS. CLEARLY, this thread is knit picking and the only argument is “look at the win rate of her mains” Like no shit, you mean to me a person who’s experienced on a champ will know how to play them better and have a higher win rate?*Shocker* Meanwhile she’s at a measly 47% overall. People just wanna complain without learning how to get better.
Thats not the "only arguement" though My point in including win rates was also to show how frequently she was played, which in total among 15 people was nearly 14 thousand (13,968 exactly with the stats provided) games. and the average win rate for these 15 people was 52.13% which means out of 14 thousand games this abomination was picked, she won 7,263 if of those games. However if you were to look at the entire post, you'd also see that I called out how safe she is, while having an incredibly versatile build path that makes her damn near impossible to pin down when anyone with half a brain is playing her. Not only that, I mentioned how she has the best of nearly every adc wrapped up in one kit Lets list off what she has, shall we? Passive: 5 stack auto passive with an execute that procs off your w provided you have the plasma stacks necessary to proc it Q: Wave clear, pushing power, incredibly high single target burst. Decent bonus ad scaling with okay ap scaling as well. W: Long range poke, and with minimal ap can chunk any squishy it hits at an okay base damage and a 150% total ad ratio, and a 60% ap ratio. Also reveals anything it, and applies 2 stacks of plasma when not upgraded, 3 when upgraded. E: Extra movement speed during its duration (a very important stat for ad carries since it allows them to kite away from oncoming threats) as well as an attack speed steroid which you claim was nerfed, but in reality it's still completely fine at 40% rank 1 and 60% as at max rank. Oh, it also reduces its cool down when you auto someone and when upgraded you have a .5 second stealth. Which, with that reduced cool down you end up having it up quite often in fights. R: Self shield and 1500/2000/2500 unit range dash that while limited to being only on plasma marked targets, its not hard to auto someone once if you get caught out or during a skirmish or team fight to gain that extra distance onto a key target or get yourself away from someone. Might I also mention she also has a 75 / 100 / 125 (Base) with a 100 / 150 / 200% AD/ 75% AP Ratio on that shield? They're also total ratios so its not like Jayce and his bonus ad ratios hindering his late game damage. She has high single target damage, very high scaling and a very good early to boot. She fits in most team compositions and she's probably the hardest adc in the game to pin down because on top of all that burst, mobility and durability She can also build a Zhonyas. Remind me what my only arguement for her needing a nerf is again?
: Your nerf ideas are great. I love that champ to death and she’s my favorite character story wise, gameplay wise, art, music, everything, of any game I’ve ever played. I don’t personally want her to be nerfed because I kinda like that she’s busted in good hands LOL but if they did nerf her I’d make evolves cost 150 so she can’t get all 3 evolves ever anymore and I’d remove the ability for teammates to stack her passive with cc. This causes her to be paired with cc supports less(especially nautilus thresh and Pyke) meaning that those said supports can’t just spoon feed her kills excessively like they do currently. She will have a harder time scaling and will also take longer to get evolves regardless. If these said nerfs ended up making her garbage then you could just buff her ult range or w so w may be worth evolving over q sometimes. That is my main concern with making her choose between her evolves. She’ll ALWAYS go for e and most likely q. This would erase the possibility of upgrading w unless you were going full ap or didn’t want your e evolve (but why wouldn’t you???). So I think w buffs would be necessary to even the playing field between q and w
Finally someone who actually agrees with me. I dont feel like the desired nerfs are out of line, and I feel like for once they would put her into a more balanced state than the hilariously absurd state she's in right now.
Shigure (OCE)
: Ok so this is one major problem i have with this argument. Pick-rate is a terrible metric for bot compared to every other position. Why? That's simple. It has a much smaller viable champion pool then any other position. Look at u.gg ( the riot endorsed statistic site) for a sec and search by pick-rate. Number of champions with a pick-rate of 1% or higher by role is as follows: Top has 43 Jungle has 38 Mid has 42 Bot has 18 Supp has 28 Notice a problem here? now look at overall pick rate and notice a trend. Bot has 6 out of the top 10 (with jinx at 11th), supp has 3 and Jungle has 1. 1/3rd of the bot pool is in the top 10 champions by pick-rate in the game and 9/10 comes from the bot lane with both roles having the least amount of viable champions. This shouldn't be a surprise at all considering that when given less options, it's much more likely people will just pick the same stuff. The only champion who probably has a too high pick-rate is Lee Sin that has a 3.5% lower pick-rate then Kai'sa (2nd overall) with over double the amount of champions in the position. The only way to remedy this is to introduce more viable champions into the role but either that takes forever as they slowly add in more adc's or they try to get non-adc's into the role but we've already seen how that worked out previously with mages in bot lane. Lee Sin is polarising in his position, Kai'Sa however is not and i think its ridiculous to make the argument that she is the best adc. Also side-note the Q nerf was to non-minions so champs,Monsters etc. Not a huge nerf but its noticeable with her empowered Q losing 49.5 base damage, 15.75% AD scaling and 18% AP scaling to a single target (my math here might be slightly off).
When comparing adc strength, nearly every high elo player says "This champ cant compare to Xayah or Kai'Sa." When Xayah has only been considered strong for a few months and Kai'Sa has always been in the spotlight since her release. If you look at it objectively, it seems like the champion who's been a worse offender for much longer actually deserves the nerf. But no, Riot decides to hit Xayah with the nerf hammer after they overbuffed her w.
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: It's Been Two Years Since Xayah & Rakan Were Released
Happy birthday you two, soon youll be close to being back to your old self Rakan. Hang in there you lovingly slightly obnoxious charmer.


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