Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 2
A real "meta" won't exist and won't mean jack in TFT until players fight on an even playing field and have some actual agency in constructing composition they want instead of hoping other people don't buy the same champs they need (and even then, hoping rerolls don't give you none of the units you need repeatedly). TFT needs equal items for all players. TFT needs a method to purchase a specific champ (at a very heavy cost and other limiting factors of course). Until those things happen, "meta" discussion is irrelevant in the face of pure RNG-based gameplay. You can talk to death the best item combinations, champion compositions, and counters. But we have no meaningful impact as players over that. When an opponent of equal skill has 5 more items than you, you almost definitely lose. When you're in round 20 spending 16 gold a round trying to get the last t1 unit you need for your comp while the other guy has four t3s, you lose. How successful you are is RNG on every level. Introducing some legitimate influence and basic item balance would make a meta interesting. At the moment, you could know the meta inside and out but it doesn't matter, at all, if that information can't be utilised by the player because whether it's relevant just comes down to a series of coin flips. Who the hell cares if you know you need to build some MR if you don't get a single Negatron Cloak? Who cares if you know you need Assassins to take out the enemy Ashe on their 6-man Glacial comp (which seriously needs looked at btw) if you can't ever get an Assassin that doesn't completely ruin your comp's alliances? "Meta" is pointless in TFT and it will continue to be a matter of "which champs are most overpowered" instead of actual player skill expression until players get some more agency than what RNJesus sees fit to provide.
jujulian (OCE)
: I agree with Pika Fox that items ALONE do not change the outcome of the game as there are other RNG variables to take into account like champions offered, if a certain comp perk procs (e.g. demons, gunslinger, ranger, yordle etc). I really don't think all players should be given the exact same amount of items though. I feel like that would take away the chance for a player who got given bad champion options to still have some hope. Although I understand this can work in conjunction with other bad RNG to create a game that feels unwinnable, it can also do the opposite and work with good RNG where a player has great champion picks and many items to facilitate a win. And I think that's fine. TFT is a game-mode where you've got to be extremely flexible, think miles ahead and even be ready to sell your entire team to change comp if your comp is countered by another or just to transition successfully. (now I personally can't do these things I am a very stubborn rigid player but somehow it works ok for now). I think normalising the amount of items drops per players would make the game-mode more boring, as it will become more predictable and too much predictability simply means less surprises which leads to more boredom. Yes it can be annoying when you're on the receiving end of bad RNG but you're just as likely to be on the receiving end of good RNG (this is relatively simple math if anyone wants to provide mathematical proof). I just take it like I take normal games of League: 20% of the time there is nothing I will be able to do (due to other players or bad RNG) and I will lose the game for sure, 20% of the time whatever I do it's probably a win (due to other player or good RNG) even if I make many mistakes, 60% of the time the win or the lose will be dependent on me and the choices I make etc. That way, when I overwhelmingly lose it helps to lessen the loss knowing there are times when I will overwhelmingly win effortlessly. Now if you feel like you're always on the bad side of RNG and barely ever on the good side of RNG then you have to change the way you think because it is simple math, after just a few games it is possible you have been dealt a bad hand, but after enough games there is no way you've been more often dealt a bad hand than a god one. If you think this is the case (and I don't say this to insult anyone I've been there too) you may be shifting the blame from your skill level to RNG a bit too often because probability states otherwise. I think riot has made a great step towards lessening the effects of item number differences between players by adding possible gold rewards instead of items.
You're assuming a best case scenario: Where the player with weaker champion picks gets better items. But the system does not work like that, the two systems have no bearing on each other. It's entirely possible for the guy who got four 3*s is the same guy who had 6 items by round 3. There's nothing that pushes the guy with weaker champions to get more items whatsoever. Not to mention, there aren't really "better" champion picks until you get to the rounds where there's the possibility of getting the ideal 5-stars you need for a comp. Even then, whether that champion matters for your comp is the deciding factor, not the objective strength of the champion themselves. If you're running a comp with no gunslingers and no pirates, getting a Miss Fortune in your selection does absolutely zero for you. Items aren't the only factor and I never claimed as such. They are, however, the only *universally* useful thing given out in random values. *EVERYONE* can make use of more items, which means more items is an outright significantly larger increment of power for everyone involved. If you're building a Wild team with no Sorcerors it doesn't matter if you managed to find enough Veigars to get a 3-star Veigar because you haven't been buying Veigar. But no matter what item you get, you can *always* use the item. They need to be identical in number for all players so the power level of opposing players is based on their composition, placement, budgeting, and how they choose to *use* the items at their disposal. Item amount discrepancies are just "free power", So items need to serve as a power baseline for everyone, otherwise it's literally just "X player has a higher chance to win due to something that involved literally zero decisions made by that player except having a team that can get through the neutral rounds".
Pika Fox (NA)
: Youre right; you have MORE agency in tft. Sorry.
Not sure why you're apologizing for being literally objectively and demonstrably wrong, but I suppose the courtesy is commendable.
Pika Fox (NA)
: What card options you get in hearthstone is random, what order you draw is random... Yet its undeniably a skill based game
There is a COLOSSAL difference in player agency there. You *seriously* can't tell the difference? Like, unironically, you legitimately think these are comparable ideas? That is amazing.
: If I had a dollar for every time I've been in the top three with 2 completed items, while the other two have 6+ completed items.
I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it's inherently massively imbalanced, it's poor design, it negates a significant portion of player agency, and to be honest it's less "fun" to not have items and custom "builds" for characters. Sure you can still place, but I'd be willing to bet if you're placing top 3 with 2 items, you'd be winning or close to winning if you were working with 6+. Factually speaking that is a massive difference in team power.
Cevrad (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=gowwUb5m,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-17T05:14:46.311+0000) > > There's a reason all the other Autochess games do this. > > There is no way for the game to be a strategy game when I've *literally*, I'm not exaggerating, gone into games where I end round 3 with the *single* item granted by the champion you pick up in the first draft while my opponent has *SIX* items. > > I genuinely do not understand why this decision was made. The game is RNG enough by its nature in many, many forms. Massive item discrepancies turn it into little more than a coin flip. Autochess didn't until its huge overhaul... Give them time to copy the new features, they just copied the old ones.
Sorry, to clarify I meant "Autochess-like games" since they're all clones of each other. To my knowledge TFT is the *only* one that doesn't understand how colossally detrimental it is in terms of basic player-to-player balancing to not grant everyone the same number of items.
Shahamut (NA)
: The game would become to item "meta" if everyone got to pick items via purchase. What items you get being random often makes you rethink your comp/strategy. I won a game with almost no items, sitting on a giants belt with 5 glacial, because my last carasole got me a Yasuo + spatula... Still salty about not finding Anivia, but meh.
There's a number of pretty obvious changes that should've been implemented on release that would maintain the inherent "randomness" of the game mode without making the strategic element completely irrelevant. For example, with regards to items, there's no reason you couldn't have a system where there's an exchange rate. Trade in 2 items for any other item, or 3 for 1 spatula. With equal items among players, this would allow for player agency and important player decisions. "Do I want to trade in a finished item's worth of items to get that one Recurve bow I really need or try to work with what I have?" Honestly I do not understand how so many things are missing that should've been brought up during the concept phase.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Sorry if i burst your bubble in that tft is skill based and not rng based.
It is absolutely not. Your champion options are random. Your item options are random. Your number of items is random. Your opponents per round are random and you have no way to know who you're fighting next until there's only 2 left. Your champion attack priority is random. Your draft options are random. If you genuinely, non-trolling, think TFT is not RNG-Based, there is no other way to say it any nicer than "You outright lack the ability to comprehend the game you're playing".
Comentários de Rioters
Riot Jag (NA)
: Teemo changes temporarily on PBE for early feedback
I like the general direction of these changes, but something I *absolutely* want to make clear is that, frankly, even though it's not meta, Teemo's kit has *always* been pretty damn good at Jungling once you know what you're doing. His kit allows him to counterjungle like a monster and if you want a champion to give lane protection, countergank, or just generally make the enemy Jungler's life Hell, Teemo Jungle is fantastic for it in the right hands. It just plain is, on an outright objective level, whether it's meta or not. His weakness is, as stated, organized play. Were he actually useful in high-level organized play I could almost guarantee you'd see Teemo Jungle as a more "meta" thing. As such, I really hope you guys don't gut what is frankly, one of (if not my favorite) my favorite ways to play the game. His new kit doesn't seem like it'd do that, I'm just hoping you don't do something pointless and unnecessary like removing his Blind on monsters. Pretty please. Lessening champion diversity is rarely a *good* thing. Just asking that this be considered. With the nerf to Shroom damage and Blinding Dart damage, Mid Teemo is going to almost assuredly be weaker: Forcing him to *only* lane in Top would mean he'd have to be damn good in top, and whenever he is, he's not fun to fight against because he has to be *really* good in order for it to be worth-wile. When Top Teemo is *really* good (for example, when Aery first arrived), there's almost nothing that can be done about him for Melee Tops, meaning he gets nerfed until he's not good anymore outside of low-level play. Or, an even *worse* concern, *DO NOT* force another Mage into the "they're a Support now because we don't care enough to give them the attention to let them be optimal in solo lanes anymore" treatment like so many other Mages have suffered. Keep an eye on Jungle Teemo. *PLEASE* don't accidentally (or intentionally) remove it. A humble request from a longtime Teemo player who loves the champion and loves this playstyle. P.S. While the Shroom damage nerfs are understandable, I'd personally like to request some of the damage be shifted to a %Max HP damage such that they typically even out to 1/3rd of a given champion's HP when not counting MR. Sure, Shrooms nuke squishies right now, but without Liandry's your average tank doesn't give a flying fuck about them. Making the damage more target-agnostic would make lower-damage shrooms *feel* significantly better, because they wouldn't feel "wasted" when a tank steps on them. As has already been stated, his shrooms *ARE* Teemo. That *IS* the fun of Teemo. Don't nerf them too hard or you're basically removing Tryndamere's Ult, comparitively. It's the defining part of the champion. P.P.S. I also like the "increased vision" proposal someone else made. He's a scout that does little scouting at the moment. P.P.P.S. Please consider making his Q and/or his Poison do bonus damage to targets affected by shrooms if you later feel he needs more burst. It would prompt him to follow up on shrooms, and retain some of his "Assassin" playstyle. P.P.P.P.S. The new Blind "missing" effect is cool, but please make melee attackers swing more in his direction for "near" misses. Having them swing wildly to either side looks kind've weird and would probably be confusing for the attacker.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pGvrElw1,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2019-02-11T18:40:58.448+0000) > > As right as you are, keep in mind you're preaching to a group of players who're one of the only groups (if not the only group, I think it happened to Riven once too but I can't remember) to literally *have their champion rework cancelled on the PBE* purely because *they bitched hard enough*. > > That's not even an exaggeration, you can still find the Riot comments about it. They literally whined like children hard enough that Riot said "nah, this isn't worth it" and cancelled his rework, despite the champion being oppressively dominant in the jungle like he had been for season after season after season after season. Not for design reasons, not for balance reasons, but *purely because they didn't want to upset the Lee Sin playerbase*. **LITERALLY**. > Lee Sin players are some of the worst players in this game when it comes to entitlement, rational thought isn't going to get through to them. They're as blind as their champion is. Isn't funny how OTP tend to have similiar characteristics with each other? Personally my favorite OTP community is Katartina.
Yeah, people who main certain champions seem to overwhelmingly follow certain trends. Some of my favorites: {{champion:92}} : Almost always thinks they're BoxBox, usually the first player to ragequit as soon as they fuck up a trade and die, is always convinced they're God's gift to League and *anything* that goes wrong is *somehow* someone else's fault even if there's no *possible* way it could be anything but them misplaying. {{champion:55}} : Basically Riven mains who prefer midlane/AP builds. Their shitty attitudes are nearly identical in my experience. {{champion:157}} : 99% of the time these mains are toxic, self-important assholes who think their lane is the only lane that exists. The other 1%, ironically, is usually very friendly and fun to play with. Like Riven mains, they rarely understand this is a strategy game, not Team Deathmatch. {{champion:17}} : A crapshoot 50/50 chance of getting either someone who's just as shitty and toxic as Yasuo mains, or someone who's the most funny/chill person in the game. {{champion:67}} : One of my favorites because they're usually either A) Completely silent the entire game except for a single "gg" at the end, or B) the biggest trash talker in the game. The good ones are usually in group A, the shitty ones are usually in group B. {{champion:105}} : Kinda like Teemo, it's basically a 50/50 shot with these guys. You're either gonna get someone who's chill and responds to mistakes with "Nah don't worry about it, we got this!", or someone who... Well... Probably also plays Riven/Katarina, if you catch my meaning. {{champion:107}} : Probably a sadist. And, of course: {{champion:64}} : I can probably count on one hand the number of Lee Sin mains I've met in the 8ish years I've played League that *weren't* the most intolerable person in the game. Like holy shit, these guys bitch when they get fed and fall off, they bitch when they gank a lane even when their teammate has 10hp and no flash, they bitch when the team is losing, they bitch when they're not winning hard enough, they bitch when someone doesn't get insta-killed by their over-tuned ult, they bitch when they miss smite, they bitch when they can't win a 1v1 despite engaging with 1/3rd hp, they bitch when someone breathes wrong, the list goes on. Quite possibly the most fucking intolerable playerbase. No joke. Made even worse by the fact that Riot repeatedly panders to them because "LC$ Big Playz". It's very rare that I see a Lee Sin in the loading screen and don't think "great, there goes *my* fun for this game" at this point. Their track record for being fuckhead pricks is so consistent it'd be impressive if it wasn't so pathetic.
: Message to all Lee Sin players... (or any other early game champion)
As right as you are, keep in mind you're preaching to a group of players who're one of the only groups (if not the only group, I think it happened to Riven once too but I can't remember) to literally *have their champion rework cancelled on the PBE* purely because *they bitched hard enough*. That's not even an exaggeration, you can still find the Riot comments about it. They literally whined like children hard enough that Riot said "nah, this isn't worth it" and cancelled his rework, despite the champion being oppressively dominant in the jungle like he had been for season after season after season after season. Not for design reasons, not for balance reasons, but *purely because they didn't want to upset the Lee Sin playerbase*. **LITERALLY**. Lee Sin players are some of the worst players in this game when it comes to entitlement, rational thought isn't going to get through to them. They're as blind as their champion is.
: This game would be better off without Yasuo in it
Whoah yeah I can't imagine a champion having higher than a 50% ban rate, that's insane {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:38}} :^) lol but no seriously, fuck Yasuo.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:52:19.607+0000) > > For fucks sake, I'm not even talking about whether they *should* make characters that they specify as X or Y, I'm saying that they're fucking *going to* because they've *already done it* with Varus, so why did they *not* make Neeko non-binary instead of whatever future champion they go out of their way to tell everyone "HEY THIS CHAMPION IS NON-BINARY LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE". > > It's literally in their best interest as a business to appeal to the largest amount of demographics possible. That's just basic marketing and really not a hard concept. > No wonder Riot thinks the boards are stupid, people keep proving them right. Your thread title: "Legitimate Question: Why wasn't Neeko made as a Genderfluid/Non-binary" They already went out of their way to declare Neeko as a lesbian. This is a fact because a Rioter went and confirmed it on Twitter. Any future cases will be Riot going out of their way to confirm it. Varus was another case of raw pandering. The homosexual couple didn't absolve his backstory of major flaws. And having a homosexual couple doesn't make the story good. The fact is that you are a hypocrite. You want "muh representation" because it's favoritism. You don't want equality because you want to make yourself look good via virtue signaling, which is no better than saying I'm homophobic for disagreeing with you or calling out your bullshit.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T19:07:11.140+0000) > > Your thread title: "Legitimate Question: Why wasn't Neeko made as a Genderfluid/Non-binary" > > They already went out of their way to declare Neeko as a lesbian. This is a fact because a Rioter went and confirmed it on Twitter. Any future cases will be Riot going out of their way to confirm it. > > Varus was another case of raw pandering. The homosexual couple didn't absolve his backstory of major flaws. And having a homosexual couple doesn't make the story good. > > The fact is that you are a hypocrite. You want "muh representation" because it's favoritism. You don't want equality because you want to make yourself look good via virtue signaling, which is no better than saying I'm homophobic for disagreeing with you or calling out your bullshit. For the love of God I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape. I don't fucking care about social issues in games. I personally think they don't have a place in games like League. I'm saying that Riot *will fucking do it* one day because *clearly* that's their stance on how they want to handle their game. So why didn't they do it with the character who it would make the most sense for? Fast forward like 2 years from now or whatever and we'll get Ezreal 2.0 where the first line of their lore says "HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE PREFERRED PRONOUNS" now, instead of what they could've done with Neeko where they just leave it ambiguous and get to 1) Appeal to those demographics who they want to feel represented so they'll play League/buy skins for the champion and 2) Do so without pissing off the people who're slightly less tempermental and combative than yourself who would have moved on and ignored it. Use ad hominem all you want, you're just making yourself look like a tool. I don't want Neeko to be genderfluid for "representation", I'm just not pretending that Riot isn't going to do it *eventually* because *it is good for their bottom line to do so*, so why didn't they do it with the character who an argument can be made for that makes sense? You're making personal assumptions that have literally zero accuracy or relevance to the discussion, and throwing around insults just because you don't have a legitimate point. If you're gonna flame, go do it on 4chan with the rest of the butthurt people who can't grow up. Nobody called you homophobic. You came to that overly defensive conclusion yourself. I'm not non-binary, I'm not a strong supporter of it, and I don't think pandering has a place in League. But Riot *clearly* intends to, so I'm wondering what their rationale was for not doing it with Neeko if they're going to do it eventually anyway. Full stop. Anything you decide to add onto that is just your personal bullshit that you're displacing onto me for some reason.
CLG ear (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:59:25.830+0000) > > My point is that Riot clearly *intends to do stuff like that*, so why didn't they do it with a character who could've filled that niche without it being especially artificially motivated? > It seems shortsighted. because they don't know how to write
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T19:03:09.552+0000) > > because they don't know how to write ...Fair enough lol
CLG ear (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:42:56.779+0000) > > I mean I'm not even talking about orientation or anything, I'm literally talking purely about the fact that she is *literally* the definition of genderfluid and Riot had an opportunity to make a character to represent that demographic without it just being stupid pandering and in a way that makes perfect sense for a character, and they didn't. > > Like, I'm not saying they should've gone out of their way to *say* she's genderfluid or something. That'd be pandering too and also stupid. > I'm just saying why did they go out of their way to *specify* that a shapeshifter has a set gender, instead of just being ambiguous about it, since y'know, *ambiguity of physical form is literally the defining trait of a shapeshifter*? im saying that adding social issue topics to the game is the worst form of writing in games and should never be done. This champ is some monster thing in a fantasy land, and it makes no sense to apply our manmade social labels to something that doesn't exist in real life. Varus's retcon was terrible not because there were two gay guys, but because Varus already had established lore (it wasn't very original but it was serviceable) and that was changed for no real reason. Now this guy responds to a twitter comment straight up defining her sexuality; which wasn't necessary for the character and basically overshadows everything else about her. Riot's lore writing has been the weakest aspect of league of legends, and it shows.
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:54:52.189+0000) > > im saying that adding social issue topics to the game is the worst form of writing in games and should never be done. This champ is some monster thing in a fantasy land, and it makes no sense to apply our manmade social labels to something that doesn't exist in real life. Varus's retcon was terrible not because there were two gay guys, but because Varus already had established lore (it wasn't very original but it was serviceable) and that was changed for no real reason. Now this guy responds to a twitter comment straight up defining her sexuality; which wasn't necessary for the character and basically overshadows everything else about her. > > Riot's lore writing has been the weakest aspect of league of legends, and it shows. Agreed, I'm not saying I agree with Riot going out of their way to do stuff like they did with Varus. I'm saying "if it *is going to happen anyway* why didn't they take the opportunity to do it with a character who it would've made the most sense for?" I was really honestly pretty pissed off about the whole Varus retcon thing myself and putting social issues into the game. Someone already went out of their way to specify Neeko is a lesbian, from what I gather. Riot is going to keep doing that sort of thing. Whining about it isn't going to make them stop, because it's better for their bottom line to do it. That's just reality. My point is that Riot clearly *intends to do stuff like that*, so why didn't they do it with a character who could've filled that niche without it being especially artificially motivated? It seems shortsighted. As I keep mentioning when people act like they're somehow personally attacked by the idea of a non-binary character in their game (nah the League community totally isn't a bunch of toxic douches at all /s), I'm not saying they should've gone out of their way to specify she's non-binary. I just think it's weird and shortsighted that they didn't just leave it ambiguous when the characters literal form is pretty ambiguous.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 5
Hey Meddler, I was wondering maybe you'd be able to shed some insight on a topic for me that may or may not be in your wheelhouse just to sate my curiousity? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/E6yWEvTA-legitimate-question-why-wasnt-neeko-made-as-a-genderfluidnonbinary-character?show=flat&page=1 I'd suggest not doing it in that thread because the average person in there is apparently quite touchy on the topic, but I still feel it's a legitimate question and am curious if there was any reasoning behind it.
: Better question: Why is that so fucking important? The truth is that it's not. And if you want to cry "muh equality" then you will agree that making it important means it's as important as having multiple, explicitly confirmed straight/binary characters. To say otherwise makes you a hypocrite. I don't want to hear about this topic because it devalues everything else about a character. To keep bringing this up about characters is extremely irritating. And BTW, representation is NOT a good reason to have a character explicitly confirmed as whatever for the reasons I just listed.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:33:29.920+0000) > > Better question: Why is that so fucking important? > > The truth is that it's not. And if you want to cry "muh equality" then you will agree that making it important means it's as important as having multiple, explicitly confirmed straight/binary characters. To say otherwise makes you a hypocrite. > > I don't want to hear about this topic because it devalues everything else about a character. To keep bringing this up about characters is extremely irritating. And BTW, representation is NOT a good reason to have a character explicitly confirmed as whatever for the reasons I just listed. For fucks sake, I'm not even talking about whether they *should* make characters that they specify as X or Y, I'm saying that they're fucking *going to* because they've *already done it* with Varus, so why did they *not* make Neeko non-binary instead of whatever future champion they go out of their way to tell everyone "HEY THIS CHAMPION IS NON-BINARY LOOK HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE". It's literally in their best interest as a business to appeal to the largest amount of demographics possible. That's just basic marketing and really not a hard concept. No wonder Riot thinks the boards are stupid, people keep proving them right.
Myrmiron (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=MiceOnMars,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:25:17.277+0000) > > _<Removed>_ I mean, we already have Corki. ;^)
> [{quoted}](name=Myrmiron,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:42:02.285+0000) > > I mean, we already have Corki. ;^) Is Corki's gender "mustache"?
CLG ear (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:33:39.404+0000) > > There wasn&#x27;t a reason to retcon Varus into being a couple of gay dudes either, but that&#x27;s what I&#x27;m getting at: > Riot *does* do stuff like that. > > So why didn&#x27;t they do it with this character? > One day we&#x27;re going to get a character who&#x27;s lore specifies that they&#x27;re non-binary. > Neeko is like that *organically*, which means it could&#x27;ve been done in a way where it&#x27;s hard to argue it&#x27;s &quot;pandering&quot; > > Now when we eventually *do* get that character, it&#x27;s probably going to look like pandering, and the boards are gonna be flooded with assholes like the people who instantly downvoted this thread cuz the very idea of more than 2 genders makes them pissed off. > > At least if Riot had made Neeko non-binary, the argument could&#x27;ve been made that &quot;well, I mean, she&#x27;s never really set in one form anyway, so...&quot; > Instead of what we&#x27;ll get one day where we get another Ezreal-lookin&#x27; mofo and Riot releases a cinematic that goes out of it&#x27;s way to tell you &quot;HEY CHECK IT OUT WE MADE A NON-BINARY CHAMPION&quot; it's my theory that they didn't intend for neeko to be lgbt, and the writer mouthed off about it when he wasn't supposed to and now they're stuck because the head writer said that.
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:38:01.488+0000) > > it&#x27;s my theory that they didn&#x27;t intend for neeko to be lgbt, and the writer mouthed off about it when he wasn&#x27;t supposed to and now they&#x27;re stuck because the head writer said that. I mean I'm not even talking about orientation or anything, I'm literally talking purely about the fact that she is *literally* the definition of genderfluid and Riot had an opportunity to make a character to represent that demographic without it just being stupid pandering and in a way that makes perfect sense for a character, and they didn't. Like, I'm not saying they should've gone out of their way to *say* she's genderfluid or something. That'd be pandering too and also stupid. I'm just saying why did they go out of their way to *specify* that a shapeshifter has a set gender, instead of just being ambiguous about it, since y'know, *ambiguity of physical form is literally the defining trait of a shapeshifter*?
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=MiceOnMars,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:25:17.277+0000) > > _<Removed>_ Not really saying one way or another about it being "fake" genders, I'm saying a being that literally flips between male and female *by default* is *by definition* genderfluid already. So why was Neeko *specified* as female instead of just leaving it as ambiguous? It'd make sense for the character. if you knew you were going to have a Champion with a "fake gender" eventually, would you *not* want it to be a character that it actually *makes sense for* instead of just a random character that Riot goes out of their way to tell you is a "fake gender"? Seems to me like you might as well do it with a character who it makes sense for, instead of forcing it artificially into a character. The former could be good character design. The latter is just stupid SJW pandering.
CLG ear (NA)
: because there's no reason to
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:29:45.328+0000) > > because there&#x27;s no reason to There wasn't a reason to retcon Varus into being a couple of gay dudes either, but that's what I'm getting at: Riot *does* do stuff like that. So why didn't they do it with this character? One day we're going to get a character who's lore specifies that they're non-binary. Neeko is like that *organically*, which means it could've been done in a way where it's hard to argue it's "pandering" Now when we eventually *do* get that character, it's probably going to look like pandering, and the boards are gonna be flooded with assholes like the people who instantly downvoted this thread cuz the very idea of more than 2 genders makes them pissed off. At least if Riot had made Neeko non-binary, the argument could've been made that "well, I mean, she's never really set in one form anyway, so..." Instead of what we'll get one day where we get another Ezreal-lookin' mofo and Riot releases a cinematic that goes out of it's way to tell you "HEY CHECK IT OUT WE MADE A NON-BINARY CHAMPION"
: Isn't ' she ' kind of already? We call it she, but it isn't human... So she is just perception. I'd think.
> [{quoted}](name=No Chat System,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=E6yWEvTA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-05T18:26:30.504+0000) > > Isn&#x27;t &#x27; she &#x27; kind of already? > > We call it she, but it isn&#x27;t human... So she is just perception. I&#x27;d think. Yeah but that's what I mean: She just automatically "is" pretty non-binary, just by her very nature as a shapeshifter. So why wasn't it like, official? It *will* happen one day, mark my words. Riot gains nothing as a business by *not* appealing to as many demographics as possible. So why didn't they do it with the one character who it'd make perfect sense to?
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EhPzbP3g,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-12-05T07:31:41.166+0000) > > Congratulations, you&#x27;re a coward lol > If you were actually the &quot;mature&quot; one here, you wouldn&#x27;t have said anything and just moved on. > Instead you said some shit, did it in the postgame lobby so it&#x27;s harder to get caught when you&#x27;re reported, and ran away so you could tell yourself you got the last word. > > Not sure why you&#x27;re patting yourself on the back, that sounds pretty childish and pathetic. WHO'S A BIG BOII? YES YOU ARE!
Acting childish and petty to prove you're not childish and petty lol Good call fam.
: My point is - and this rings _especially_ true considering that this is **_Day 1_** of it being on the PBE - is that we need to do more than just point at a problem and say "fixxit" - or, worse, start making sarcastic remarks about laziness - we have to give Riot suggestions and feedback. If it doesn't look "Prestigious" enough, then think of ways to make it _look_ prestigious.
Good on the both of you for actually making fucking *points* in a disagreement. Far too rare around here lol
: There is no greater feeling in league than
Congratulations, you're a coward lol If you were actually the "mature" one here, you wouldn't have said anything and just moved on. Instead you said some shit, did it in the postgame lobby so it's harder to get caught when you're reported, and ran away so you could tell yourself you got the last word. Not sure why you're patting yourself on the back, that sounds pretty childish and pathetic.
Rexxiee (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Shaydrox,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VvfktET9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-31T09:58:44.581+0000) > > more like adcs lmao Yeah because riot totally didnt trash adcs for multiple seasons in a row, they are biased towards them! If only, adc is complete dumpster fire to play now.
"Trash ADCs for multiple seasons in a row". Right. Sure. Being butthurt about your favorite doesn't make this true. Literally false in every way.
Grokmir (NA)
: 1. No, other roles don't have to know how to play every type of champ that goes into their role. In fact i don't personally know anyone that seriously does that. Most of my mid lane friends are either one tricks or mage mains and they NEVER play anything else. 2. Why is it such a problem that champs are being played in their role? Why do we need to have mages or bruisers in the botlane carry slot when they already have thier lanes? Will people not stop screaming about botlane diversity until adc's aren't played and mage/brusiers are able to play every single role?
> [{quoted}](name=Grokmir the bold,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=p2YYgFsk,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2018-10-31T16:19:32.691+0000) > > 1. No, other roles don&#x27;t have to know how to play every type of champ that goes into their role. In fact i don&#x27;t personally know anyone that seriously does that. Most of my mid lane friends are either one tricks or mage mains and they NEVER play anything else. > > 2. Why is it such a problem that champs are being played in their role? Why do we need to have mages or bruisers in the botlane carry slot when they already have thier lanes? Will people not stop screaming about botlane diversity until adc&#x27;s aren&#x27;t played and mage/brusiers are able to play every single role? Because they are *factually* not, and the "waaaahhh but ADCs only work in bot lane waaaahhhh" is ALSO *factually* not true. ADCs are just too busy being used to special treatment that being forced to adapt like everyone else has had to for literally years now is a mindblowing concept to them. Several ADCs make for very strong mid or top laners, and a few of them make decent or strong junglers too. It's just harder than having a support constantly babysit you and Riot constantly help you. Get over it and adapt. People don't want the "ADC in bot only" meta back because ADC players are entitled little shitheads that think the whole game revolves around them, because Riot keeps telling everyone "Everything revolves around ADCs" through their balance and design decisions. Now there's finally some change there and suddenly all the ADC players are unsurprisingly REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-ing at it cuz they're the people whose mommies told them they're special and unique a few too many times.
: Yep. Totally favoring Marksmen by creating Lethality items for assassins so they have an even easier time catching up to and bursting squishy targets, like Marksmen. Select marksmen abusing those items aside, marksmen also still remain overall nerfed by the critical changes. And let's not forget that bottom lane was molded to be THE lane for 4 man ganks for the first 20 minutes due to Dragon control and first tower bonuses. Let's also ignore that when bot lane was given attempted diversification, many Marksmen we're trash and could not be played ANYWHERE. Why? Because they couldn't keep up with the double bruiser lane and had no place else to go. Marksmen are typically confined to bottom lane. So when we lose what little territory we have you can expect us to rightfully complain.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=p2YYgFsk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-30T19:50:47.093+0000) > > Yep. Totally favoring Marksmen by creating Lethality items for assassins so they have an even easier time catching up to and bursting squishy targets, like Marksmen. Select marksmen abusing those items aside, marksmen also still remain overall nerfed by the critical changes. And let&#x27;s not forget that bottom lane was molded to be THE lane for 4 man ganks for the first 20 minutes due to Dragon control and first tower bonuses. > > Let&#x27;s also ignore that when bot lane was given attempted diversification, many Marksmen we&#x27;re trash and could not be played ANYWHERE. Why? Because they couldn&#x27;t keep up with the double bruiser lane and had no place else to go. > > Marksmen are typically confined to bottom lane. So when we lose what little territory we have you can expect us to rightfully complain. Oh, you mean the Lethality items that for a *very* long time had to be shit for Assassin players because Riot wouldn't nerf them for Marksmen because they're Riot's little babies? Oh you mean the crit chance that's essentially only useful for a single class and provides absurd exponential damage scaling that has historically warped the whole fucking meta on several occasions and isn't really viable to build on anyone else who isn't named Master Yi or Tryndamere? Oh you mean the diversification that was the first time we saw games without a Marksman in something like 7 years? Oh you mean the "trash marksmen" that then proceeded to have above-average winrates in other lanes, or hey maybe the champions who've *ALWAYS* been strong as hell in other lanes like Quinn or Graves or Lucian? You're not "rightfully complaining". Don't delude yourself. You're just bitching because you're so COMPLETELY used to Riot's special treatment that when you're not having literally every single fucking aspect of the game spoonfeed you success, you don't know what to do.
l MrD l (NA)
: Can we change GA back to being a pure defensive item?
Yeah it's.... Hard to................... Read a.................................. Post..................................................................................... That......................................................................... Uses........................................ Totally...... Unnecessary..... Ellipsis.................................. Every..................... Single.......................................... Sentence................................................................................................................................................
: >Maybe it's because Riot should keep champions strong in the roles that they belong in, rather then shoving them off to other lanes, making balance even more difficult. And who determines this? What if Viktor's role _should_ be top lane? What if maybe Diana is better in the jungle than mid-lane? Basically, you're falling into the exact thing I pointed out: "I don't like this playstyle. Viktor should only be a midlaner." And apparently this _wasn't_ a balance issue, considering it wasn't found out for months, even years, after Viktor's rework. Again: The problem isn't "I think Viktor should get some nerfs", the problem is that apparently people would rather see a new and emerging build completely and utterly removed rather than balanced to accommodate a new playstyle. People don't want Viktor top to be a thing you can pocket pick, they want it removed because Viktor should ONLY BE AN AP MIDLANER AND ANYTHING ELSE IS AGAINST THE GOSPEL. Still, Viktor is but one example.
The real issue isn't people hating new things. The real issue is people hating their favorite character who they fell in love with playing a certain way for years suddenly being told by Riot "You're not allowed to do this anymore. Play the character in a completely different way or accept that character being trash, because we have no intent of fixing the character so they can be played where they were intended/where they're most fun/where they fulfill their character fantasy best as long as this other gimmick works." Taliyah is an example where you have a very solid point: People are being dumbass whiners. She's still perfectly viable in mid lane, so just cuz she is/was (I'm not sure) more popular as a Jungler that doesn't mean there's a problem. Thus, the whiners are dumbasses. Brand is an example where the complaint is justified: I'm guessing most, if not all, of the Brand players who played a world-ending spirit of flaming Armageddon as an AP Carry in mid for years aren't happy about his only viable role being a Support and some asshole ADC's bitch. They are perfectly justified in thinking his current state is bullshit, because it is. The gameplay fantasy presented by the character does not line up with what's actually the best way to play him, and the best way to play him is pretty damn contrary to what his original intent/role/gameplay fantasy was. That's a problem. It's a case-by-case basis sure. But when Riot essentially invalidates an established style for someone's favorite character in favor of some stupid gimmicky makeshift shit, and then Riot supports *that* instead of actually *fixing* the character, there's a problem. I won't claim to know how Viktor mains feel, but I'm guessing Viktor mains in general (with exceptions obviously) weren't taking issue with the Viktor playstyles you described, because it doesn't functionally change anything about who Viktor is supposed to be as a character and doesn't change much about how he plays or what his endgame fantasy is. More likely it was the people who didn't like having to deal with Viktor a new way. Thus, people being whiney unjustified bitches. For example, I like playing Ahri bot with phase rush while I'm with my duo partner sometimes. That's pretty far away from what Ahri is "supposed" to do, but I like how it plays. In spite of this, I would immediately fight against it most likely if people started doing what I'm doing regularly and Riot started balancing her for it, because it's bullshit and unfair to the people who really like Ahri more than a passing interest. It's fine as an offmeta or "pocket pick" thing, but that doesn't justify abandoning her original playstyle and appeal and fanbase for some new gimmick. But you can't deny there are more than a few cases like Brand where a character is a shadow of their former self, with no hope of recovery, because someone played the champion in a new way and Riot decided it was easier to either pretend that character doesn't exist or encourage the new playstyle that's contrary to the character. In such cases, the players who love the character are absolutely justified in being pissed off. This is coming from someone who's played AP Ezreal since, well, forever. Like "back when AP Ezreal was the way to go" forever. And I've had to watch as Riot continually supports the "I'm a literal walking on-hit effect and nothing else" while ignoring the playstyle with actual risk or skill expression beyond "land Q". That said the rework thankfully got fixed before it left the PBE so AP Ezreal is still viable (instead of outright fucking deleted like the numbers on the PBE would've done for awhile), and he's probably best as a hybrid now, both of which fit his character, so you don't see me complaining about it. But if suddenly the only viable way to play Ezreal was as a support with tank items, I'd be pissed off. Because that's fucking stupid and does not correlate with the character or the gameplay fantasy. Such cases do happen and are totally worthy of taking issue with. Riot has a history of taking something that should've been a strange offmeta thing and saying "oh hey we like this, this is what this character is now", and that makes the complaints from the mains of that character justified in not being okay with it. Granted, you're right about a lot of the players just being whiney and hating change, I'm just pointing out that more-often-than-it-should-be, people are justified in complaining about the direction Riot forces their champion via their balancing.
Hotarµ (NA)
: _** Just a straight repost from before. I'll just copy and paste my response as well. **_ ___________________________________________________________________ >I mean it in the nicest way possible, but it's not my/our/Riot's job to make sure or remind other people about what my abilities do. >I wouldn't mind if the message was added, but people who flame and lack common champion knowledge should get absolutely no sympathy. The person in question on that post quite literally could have just asked "Why are you taking my kills?" before resorting to raging and AFKing. ____________________ _**Response to someone saying Riot does a bad job of clarifying abilities:**_ ____________________ >You're right, it is Riot's job to let people know how skills work. >That's why, on or *before* release, [they have champion spotlight videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2mara8nFVE). They also do special web previews, [like this one here for Shen.](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/champion-update-shen) You can try the [champion on free weeks](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/free-rotation/new-free-champion-rotation-pyke-kalista-swain-and-more). You can [check the in-game client or website for ability descriptions and video previews as well. ](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/Pyke/) >**That's not even counting the amount of videos and analyses created by the community such as** [Redmercy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjtZjFukQQk), [Yassuo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlF_NzIVn4U), [Nightblue3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s1SfNWnI3Y), **and many others.** > So no, don't say Riot has done a poor job when there are more than 4 *official* sources of information, and many more popular/opinionated ones on social media sites. It's not hard to take a second in game, ask what a champions ability does, and carry on in your game with that knowledge. Not Riot's problem.
They don't have a way to change the board that a thread is posted in, without a mod changing it themselves. I mistakenly posted in the Player Behaviour Board (where it clearly doesn't belong). Hence the repost.
Saibbo (EUW)
: I guess he feels obligated to complete a quests for an event that he doesn't like...
What sort of crazy people would put events into a game played for fun that compel people to do something they don't like? :^) :^) :^)
: I sware if I don't see keystones removed in preseason
Really, it's not the idea of keystones that's the problem, it's that because keystones are so limited in number and there's the minor-runes in addition to them it ends up creating a situation that *heavily* favors champions with special synergies with a given keystone while others are just left in the dust of mediocrity. The system concept isn't flawed by any means, it's a matter of current execution.
Comentários de Rioters
: I think an icon on top of your teammates HUDs explaining pyke's ult would be good.like theirs one for jinx Caitlyn vi, Volibear zilean,interactions. Then there should be one for pyke's ult. And you should post this in "gameplay",you'll have a better chance there.
Ah shit, I accidentally put it in the wrong forum lol Thanks mate, nice catch
Comentários de Rioters
: Why don't we just, dunno, get rid of Runes and Masteries alltogether?
Design is almost always about a balance of the cost of complexity in order to add depth. For almost any game, you're seeking to add as much depth as possible at the cost of as little complexity as possible. On that premise, I'm not convinced that the Runes system needs abolished *completely*, but I believe that all the non-keystone runes should be removed and that each player should be able to select a single, powerful, playstyle-warping *keystone* before the game, much like they do for Summoner Spells. Runes have the potential to add a high degree of depth with little complexity, but that possibility isn't (and realistically, probably cannot) being realized by systems where you have one major effect and 6 minor effects. It's just a bunch of complexity and those 6 minor effects don't add a significantly noticeable amount of depth. Summoner Spells are basically a "solved" mechanism in League. Unless one of them is *extremely* overpowered at the time, generally speaking you take Smite and Flash if you're Jungling and your name isn't Shaco, and otherwise you take Flash and a different spell dependent on your lane (typically Exhaust/Ignite for Supports, Barrier/Heal for ADCs, TP for Top Laners, and Mid is mostly champion-based). Keystones could add a lot of depth, if Riot abolished all the other minor effects and put all that power and design space into several really compelling keystones targeted at specific groups of characters outright. *ESPECIALLY* if they successfully made it a choice that mattered every game based on matchup. The current system is, in my opinion, far superior to old runes and masteries from a general game design standpoint, but I strongly feel that really, the best version would just be selecting one playstyle-warping keystone and that's it, and focusing on balancing those specific things such that every champion has at least 2, hopefully 3, viable options. And it *provably* works. Not to get into a HotS vs League topic, but the HotS talent system allows for significant variance in playstyle for quite a number of characters because they *allow* talents to fundamentally change how a character plays the game. And it makes those characters more interesting, and to my knowledge most HotS players praise the talent system. If I'm playing Abathur (don't hate me, HotS players), the way I play a game is *very* different based on which Ultimate I take. I'd very much like to see Keystones go down that same road, where players actually *care* about their keystones and their opponents keystones, and choose based on playstyle preference, much like how a lot of players *care* what Summoner Spells their lane opponent brings. At the moment I really don't give a rats ass whether Yi has Hail of Blades, Press the Attack, or Lethal Tempo, because it doesn't actually change anything. If all the minor runes were removed so that the Keystones could vastly change how a champion approaches situations, I'd care whether the Master Yi has X keystone or Y keystone. TLDR: The whole system isn't a bad idea and doesn't need removed entirely, but I strongly feel the best version would be to make single, very powerful Keystones that fundamentally change how you approach playing a character.
: I hate ezreal. I want that skin
Alright, fair enough, I'm sure there's people like you too, but how would you feel if one of *your* favorite characters had a very iconic, historic-to-League skin that generally speaking didn't seem like it was even supposed to be the same character? I'm fairly confident the large majority of players would take issue with it, if it was one of *their* favorites Not invalidating the people like yourself, but I don't think I'm completely out-of-line in saying that people who *don't* hate the character and have been fans of them for years should probably hold at least a little more weight, no?
: Because the game is very VERY VERYYYYYY popular in China, like you guys don't realize how insane the playerbase is here. NA isn't the world, EU isn't the world and if anything, I don't think I am making false stats saying than more than 50% of the playerbase worldwide is chinese (or from Asia). So it is important to realize (it sound like a taunt but you will get what I mean by this) that NA player need to stop thinking they are the center of the world and that it is logical that Riot also consider other playerbase. Especially when China is GROWING, which mean they will be the one paying the deeds for this game that get less popular in America.
Even if it were true that China was 50% of the playerbase (seems unlikely), that doesn't justify Yasuo's kit. There's good polarizing, and bad polarizing. Good polarizing is when people have a *distinct* opinion one way or another about something, but because of their personal preferences. In Game Design, you generally want this if there are multiple options available. Apathetic and boring additions to a game are bad for the game. Especially for something like characters in League, which has an expansive roster of characters. Bad polarizing is when the playerbase's feelings are *so* extreme that it creates a profoundly negative experience for one group of players, and is usually the result of balancing or design issues inherent to the thing in question. For you MTG nerds, the design of green land ramp decks is good polarizing, because I hate it, but I hate it out of preference, not because it's objectively "not okay". Some people have it as a favorite playstyle, other people don't like it and wouldn't ever use it. Good polarization. Bad polarization is when a busted card gets printed that people either love or hate, because they either use it or don't use it. It's not polarization coming from passion, it's polarization coming from either exploitation of a poorly-designed facet of the game or an inability/refusal to utilize a clearly problematic card. Yasuo is, ***absolutely***, bad polarizing. That's the problem with CertainlyT champions: They're designed for single-player games. They sell their gameplay fantasies well, for sure, but they do so seemingly *intentionally* at the expense of the enjoyment of the 5 people who have to play against that character (or the 4 allies of the character if the Yasuo is doing awful). One person's weeb fantasy doesn't justify an incredibly unpleasant experience for 1-5 other people. Yasuo players are *NOT* the main character in a League of Legends anime (though, they certainly seem to think otherwise). So, yeah, "Yasuo's popular in Asia". No shit, he's an edgelord samurai and is flashy. Of course he is. That doesn't make his kit okay. It's not even a justification, it's an excuse.
Comentários de Rioters
: Kinda a strange thing to nitpick about. Can we just calm down?
> [{quoted}](name=Poro Lord,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5qAtWLs6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-23T02:57:57.305+0000) > > Kinda a strange thing to nitpick about. > > Can we just calm down? It just makes the whole board look like stupid, desperate children "Maybe if I pretend hard enough, Riot will listen to me more!" It's pathetic and it's one of the most pervasive trends in the board.
Comentários de Rioters
Xidphel (NA)
: o...k? Doesn't have anything to do with OP's situation.
And also does nothing except tell everyone "lol I'm a douche, here's proof"
: But if they made it so stacking hp would be the only counter to displacement... sorry guess I had my own idea in my head and thought that's what he was saying.
I feel how you're interpreting it *could* work, if there was a Warmog's-like threshold for when the effect kicked in.
: The History of CC and Why I Believe it's a Problem
Excellent post, friend. CaptainMarvelous succinctly and eloquently explains here something that I believe the average player sort've innately "feels" but doesn't know why. Information like this might help us get less "MOBILITY CREEP IS ABSURD WTF RIOT" posts.
AD Yuumi (NA)
: That's not what players do though. When you see someone just on the edge of your targeting indicator you shoot at them trying to hit. If the indicator was bigger you'd miss shots vs. people you expected to hit on the edge It's about managing expectations for two different viewpoints. Enemies on the edge think they're "out" and expect not to get hit. Jhin players see enemies on the edge as "in" and expect the shots to land. A difference in indicator size means everyone gets their expectations met.
For what it's worth, I'd like to point out to those bitching at Jinxylord that this is just a classic case of Game Designers fudging exact numbers to match human perception. This happens in nearly *every* single game, and despite what all of you who are convinced you're special and unique want to believe, *everyone* wants it this way. What you *want* to happen is rarely what *actually* happens, so designers frequently tweak things like this to match expectations. All of you non-professional armchair "designers" in this board downvoting Jinxylord are, quite frankly, just ignorant of game design. The most classic example of this usually presented is the Mario jump, where there's actually a small, typically unnoticeable delay after walking off an edge where pressing the jump button will still result in a jump. The Human brain does not like reality, to be perfectly clear. *COUNTLESS* games have done the whole "perfect accuracy" thing and discovered in playtesting that players whine and say either it doesn't "feel right" or that it "didn't respond how it's supposed to", insistent that they're somehow a more objective view of the situation than the literal computer doing the perfect mathematical calculations. Game Designers *need* to balance accuracy against human expectation, because decades of game design have shown very clearly that players *refuse* to accept their own shortcomings. In short: Stop bitching, they're doing this for you because you'd whine about PERFECTLY ACCURATE, 100% CORRECT THINGS for "not feeling right" if they *actually* matched things exactly. There's literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of articles, essays, video analysis, and so on regarding the topic of managing human expectation in game design. Educate yourself or stop whining, and for godsakes stop downvoting everything you don't like and making *all* the boards look idiotic by doing so.
: Akali's shroud is one of the worst abilities ever designed
> [{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cNZWAluG,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:37:58.324+0000) > Really, who the fuck thought that an ability like that was okay for this game, especially on an assassin? Akali is so fucking hard to kill after 6 because she can just press W and hey you can&amp;#039;t do shit about her except trying to hit skillshots like you&amp;#039;re blind. The exact same guy who comes up with nearly ***EVERY*** anti-fun concept that gets slapped on a champion. Certainly would be a fantastic designer in a PvE game, because they make interesting character kits for PvE gameplay. They needs to stop making champions for PvP games until they recognize that the *opponent's* experience *also* matters. I hate to trash on a specific designer because it feels like a personal attack when it's not meant to be, but time and time again CertainlyT shows that their kit designs have zero interest in creating an enjoyable interaction for both the Champion's player and that player's opponents, **which is a crucial, design 101 step for making a character in a PvP environment**. Enemy players are not brainless, AI-controlled mobs who don't care if it feels like garbage interacting with your character. They're people, who deserve to enjoy their experience every bit as much as the person playing the champion in question. Sure, it's not *just* CertainlyT. But every time they get their hands into a champion kit, it ends up being despised by everyone except the person playing the champion, who runs around laughing as they ruin the experience for 5 other people just by *being* that champion in the game. Nobody (well, almost nobody) leaves a game with, say, Nami, and says "jesus christ who the fuck thought this kit was a good idea, this is literally the least fun I've had playing against an opponent in any PvP game ever even when I'm *winning*". *Plenty* of people do that with CertainlyT champions. That's an issue. "Pushing the envelope" with design is great. Just not when it comes at the expense of the enjoyment of 5x more players than the champion user. There's a *REASON* true stealth was removed. Something people at Riot seem to have forgotten.
: upvoted
Dude, I made this post *three years ago*, dafuq are you doin' here?
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Shinjusuke

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