: Do people actually activate their skin shards for 7 day rentals?
It's riots way of saying 'Yeah, you can try before you buy'
Xavanic (NA)
: Can ornn have a skin?
datfatguy (OCE)
: How do you actually lane against Illaoi
You live and outscale. You live by dodging E, which is easy as hell if you don't sit still and stay behind minions. Maybe get a cloth armor for lane phase. You outscale her by default as a majority of the top lane roster. It doesn't matter if she gets full waves and you only get half under tower, the gold is more useful on you than on her, as long as you didn't pick Panth or something. And your team doesn't stack for ult. On that note it's EXTRA important to try to keep track of her flash, as Illaoi flash R can wipe you if you stack even slightly.
: The truth behind conqueror
You're pulling the math out of your ass, but the overall point (all damage is too high) is still valid. Also you forgot to factor in Rens armor shred, and nearly every bruiser has anti-tank measures. That said no one is complaining about full build tanks vs bruisers, (late game the main offender is ADC meltage) they are complaining about lane phase. Early game when they haven't built TONS of armor yet but the bruisers still have cleaver. Tank base stats are ASS. And yes this is all referring to top lane, because thats where the Conq vs Tank issue comes up. TBH with the state of the jungle I'm surprised you don't see more tanks in there. Not like it's worth farming anyway. But tanks tend to struggle soloing drake... and support is all bout carrying lane.
Rockman (NA)
: Whats your fav Legends of Runeterra card?
I don'T HAVE ONE! YET! Rito pls ;-;
: The fact that Senna counters Yasuo's windwall is just so beautiful
While we're on the subject, does windwall stop only if it hitsthe damage portion, or the WHOLE ult.
: Senna: Broken or Not Broken? (poll)
She feels a bit weak right now TBH. But thats a grand total of 5 games of experience mind you, so subject to change.
Comentários de Rioters
Kshaway (NA)
: Why is preseason adding more lethality?
Tanks don't really struggle against lethality. When it had the 2 item synergy it was going to be ok against tanks because they could just build 2 into last whisper and they wouldn't bother with any more. Really it's just going to be even worse for non-tanks. You can still counter a full lethality build with {{item:3110}}
: how do i know when my champ is fed/hits their powerspike?
Sometimes it's obvious. 9 On syndra is a huge powerspike because she gets maxed Q and therefore passive. Some champs scale really well with 6 over others. 2, 3, 6, 9, 11 are the big level-based spikes you'll find. Some scale with items, like Kat with gunblade or Rumble with Sorcs (at least thats how it used to be, don't @ me) Some have much stranger power spikes you'll only really notice through guides, practice, or theorycrafting. in the end, just look up some really good guides. The long one,s that probably have more info than you need, but will likely have what you want in there somewhere. You can't expect to simply know stuff even by reading the champs kit
ßlameMyADC (EUNE)
: Have you ever seen his eyes?
He lost his sight setting himself on fire. I don't remember if they burned out or were just disfigured
Kythers (NA)
: guys what if we took Lux's ultimate
Actually it's roughly the same width as lux ult. I went into practice tool, Senna damage portion covers the entire base gate. Lux covers about 80% of it. You can't go by the laser on Lux ult, if you look at the indicator it's WAY wider than the spell effect would have you believe. Thats where all the 'wtf that didn't hit me' moments with that spell come from.
ToBiVeL (EUW)
: Runes chosen shown in champ select
I would at least like to see MINE! Oh shit my Electrocute page still has no manaflow band because I used it for Katarina last. ;-;
: you gotta click the X in the corner of the client and press Log Out when that happens. then log back in like normal when you open the client back up
: > [{quoted}](name=Sirsir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RRx2yi2s,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-11-13T14:55:19.434+0000) > > Memestone > > It will be used by people who aren't really trying, show up in a few highlight videos where it gave an amazing combo, and inevitably break the game when a pro finds a champ that can actually use almost ALL the keystones well and is suddenly a nightmare out of nowhere (Urgot?) what happens when u get the guardian rune and ur jungler is far away lol
As top or mid, you're locked out of a keystone for 45 (?) seconds. As jungler you start looking for dives. As support... well...
Rokuroú (EUW)
: Senna is a bit nuts
I think she is compensated a bit too much for perceived weaknesses. She's expected to be an ADC support. ADCs are generally weak in the lane, Supports are generally supposed to be strong in lane. They gave her range AND base values to live through lane and function as support. On the concept that she will be vs another adc and an actual support. She's hardly Riots most egregious release monster, but she's a touch overtuned because they try to make her useful in 2 opposing roles. They did the same to Pyke.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: people always use the term "broken" while the correct word to use is "overtuned"
People also use the term "1v9" even if they are just the most fed in a 5v5. I wouldn't count on the LoL playerbase to use the right terminology.
Bârd (NA)
: A big part of damage creep isn't just the raw numbers, it's the items people buy early on.
: Juggernaut Class
I wouldn't consider Aatrox or Urgot to be juggs, but fighters. Aatrox doesn't have the base stats to be a jugg. Urgot doesn't scale well enough to be a jugg. Then again lets not pretend anyone knows what the difference between the 2 classes are... Riot sure doesn't... And Juggs don't need to be buffed to deal with mobility creep until EVERY immobile champion class has been compensated to deal with it first. Because then not only do they have to deal with the Rivens/Khas etc but they have to deal with Darius moving at 2x their MS and still having r%%%%%edly high damage/health and a resetting execute. The class that has it as a listed weakness shouldn't have that weakness removed.
: Does {{champion:64}} have eyes?
: > [{quoted}](name=7thHeaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2E3lL7TA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-13T10:15:16.660+0000) > > She is balance > https://na.op.gg/champion/senna/statistics/support that means nothing especially when she's just released. Winrates are a very poor way to judge balance.
> Winrates are a very poor way to judge balance. Wrong. They shouldn't be the ONLY way you judge it, but it certainly doesn't mean 'nothing' You mean to tell me a champ with a 45% winrate can be considered balanced? Based on what could be false logic and 'how it feels' to play as/against her?
Tolinar (NA)
: The argument against Omnistone - a pointless rune.
Memestone It will be used by people who aren't really trying, show up in a few highlight videos where it gave an amazing combo, and inevitably break the game when a pro finds a champ that can actually use almost ALL the keystones well and is suddenly a nightmare out of nowhere (Urgot?). I hope they take a few out of the rune. One Aery proc isn't worth having, and relatively few champs can use it defensively. Aftershock shouldn't show up on champs that can't use it. It's anyones guess how useful D Harvest will be when you can't stack it reliably...
: Senna blows
Technically we've been waiting 6 years for Senna, since Lucians release. And most everything you've said is wrong. Basically you said you want her to have low cooldowns and high mobility. 2 of the worst issues this game has. I hope riot never listens to the likes of you, you would have them ruin the game.
Fluffi (NA)
: All I ask for S10
"All I ask for is $10" Is what i read.... Its too early for me to be this tired wtf... What you ask for is needed, but sadly won't happen. This is what happens when a community embraces it's toxicity. Years of mental abuse leaves it's players with a mental state of a pre-cracked egg.
: > they actually removed a mechanic because it apparently wasn't possible Nah, they just decided that having a 5+sec spell that works like Yasuo's wall but against dashes is not ok
nelogis (EUW)
: I can't think of a single champion that wants Omnistone
Memestone It will be used by people who aren't really trying, show up in a few highlight videos where it gave an amazing combo, and inevitably break the game when a pro finds a champ that can actually use almost ALL the keystones well and is suddenly a nightmare out of nowhere (Urgot?)
: Morgana definitly does not belong on this list, she has clear strengths and weaknesses and was one of the origional champions who's kit has bearly been touched over the years, thats a testament to how well balanced and fair she is. You did however miss of some of the big offenders. {{champion:157}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:64}} Those three are up in the top 4 along side Irellia. And are well knowen for being the cancerous champions with overloaded kits who caused the trend of all new champions to also have overloaded kits.
Lee wasn't hard to balance, they just knowingly fuck his balance up for worlds to he can make £€$ BIG PLAYZ.
SirEnds (NA)
: Top 10 Most Problematic Champs in League History In Terms of Balance?
Yuumi and Morg shouldn't be on the list. Both are balanced, people just complain about them because they don't like that they provide counterplay to their otherwise braindead playstyles. Jax should be, extremely broken on release, like more than any other, and bouncing between 'solid' and 'op' ever since. Kassadin too, he had nearly a 100% pick/ban rate at some point. Galio's need to be on that list was just hilarious neglect on Riots part. The fact you could get his Q to over 100% max HP on top of nice base damages was just idiotic. 1. {{champion:13}} 2. {{champion:266}} 3. {{champion:38}} 4. {{champion:84}} 5. {{champion:24}} 6. {{champion:39}} 7. {{champion:81}} 8. {{champion:429}} 9. {{champion:3}} 10. {{champion:245}} Ekko also gets put in over Sylas. Sylas got fixed relatively quickly, it took several patches to deal with the OP Ekko, the tank ekko, etc. Also honorable mention to Azir for being hard to balance AND one of the most buggy champs League has ever seen, to such a point that they actually removed a mechanic because it apparently wasn't possible. Or maybe they just got tired of trying to fix it... (the 'you shall not pass' function on his ult)
xALESIAx (EUW)
: I'm going to refund True Damage Ekko if you do not add a way to mute the in-game music.
They're usually good about adding that on release... tsk, they are regressing...
8Belthazor8 (EUNE)
: Riot is trolling us
They don't think that it's balanced. They don't care. Everyone knew SoS was going to break a few champs beyond repair. They didn't care then either.
: do any of the champions with a true damage skin deal true damage?
: Micro or Macro?
I mean, you can influence their macro. Nothing you can do about the micro
: > [{quoted}](name=Sirsir,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GhhGM8vA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-11T15:58:52.406+0000) > > It's not a fight. First person gets it Cant get it if the support bans it first.
> [{quoted}](name=Azurereaper,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GhhGM8vA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-11-11T16:56:51.998+0000) > > Cant get it if the support bans it first. The other option, true
: adc's and supports
It's not a fight. First person gets it
: > [{quoted}](name=Sirsir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hmywI72w,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-11-09T15:38:23.397+0000) > > That's what happens when you have an ult so bad they have to make his basics make up for it So does zoe have ryze syndrome or ryze has zoe syndrome? Also tell that to tahm kench the trash champ with the worse ryze ult
Zoe's whole kit was built around the ult. Getting max Q damage, unexpected Es, grabbing W shards... Ryze ult has no synergy with his kit in any way shape or form. And it would be Zoe having Ryze syndrome since the ryze rework that gave him that ult happened pre-zoe. Ryze does good damage from Lv 2 and up. It's just that pre-Tear he can only do his combo, like, twice. He's only really constrained by his mana. But then the whole cost of the combo goes down 10% once you spend 700g. Then he completes his manaflow band. Then he no longer has mana constraints. Meanwhile if he had an ult like his first (?) one that gave him MS and AP, his base kit could go down.
: How to deal with hard feeding teams?
Full team wide feed? Go next. Can't really solo carry anymore. Otherwise focus the fed enemies, protect the fed allies. Maybe fall back to splitpushing if you can > [{quoted}](name=AugustThePranker,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=087c4FxZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-09T16:31:08.920+0000) > > i even tried in my last game telling them to stop dying, they still do it, ??? A big part of the problem here is the game is so snowball. Once they die twice against certain champs there's not much you can do. Zed ults you under tower. Garen dives you 100-0 with ignite and R. Etc. Damage is so high it's not possible to play safe enough.
: yet instead they just raised ashe mana cost instead.. when noone seemed to have a problem with her
> [{quoted}](name=LostSoul218,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zxeW9mr2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-09T14:46:48.508+0000) > > yet instead they just raised ashe mana cost instead.. when noone seemed to have a problem with her 54% winrate with med-high damage undodgeable poke would beg to differ. Ashe Nerf was well deserved. But the Lee, Riven etc buffs they put out a week before worlds, on relatively balanced champs... They aren't even being subtle anymore that they are forcing some champs into worlds.
pwc2016 (NA)
: We can all agree...
F is right below R, ergo the 'important row'
: What enemy champ in champ select makes you die inside?
Blitz, Naut. I can work around Thresh and Pyke hooks... The other 2 not so much. Akali, Yas. It's not up to me to outplay them it's up to them to fuck up. Most hard lane bullies, a la Zed. I can play safe, but it's going to be boring af. And from mid they will typically roam, usually to my oblivious bot lane that doesn't respond to my MIAs. And then blames me for not pinging... Or if I'm bot they just get free plate money to get ahead despite my safe play. Riven top. I don't play top. But they will inevitably get fed and make the game unplayable for me later...
: Can Ryze Stop outtrading with Mana Crystal
That's what happens when you have an ult so bad they have to make his basics make up for it
86400 (NA)
: Buff enchanters? Make them able to 1v1 mages and just go with it.
Rockman (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Sirsir,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kYMk7Nez,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-09T02:34:30.845+0000) > > I wasn't aware elise had ties to Noxus, I thought she was Shadow Isles.... > > Vlad hails from Noxus but I don't think his lore really ties to the "Noxian Dream", it just takes place in Noxus. Gotta happen somewhere. She's from Noxus, and is one of the royal families there. They both live in the Immortal Bastion. Idk if Vlad is treated as royalty, but he's homies with Swain/Leblanc. But he's still a blood mage living in the streets with normal people.
> [{quoted}](name=Rockman,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kYMk7Nez,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-09T02:36:02.443+0000) > > She's from Noxus, and is one of the royal families there. > > They both live in the Immortal Bastion. Idk if Vlad is treated as royalty, but he's homies with Swain/Leblanc. But he's still a blood mage living in the streets with normal people. Damn retcons, last I knew she was a shadow isles demon.
Rockman (NA)
: I don't really understand how Vlad/Elise works in Noxus lore
I wasn't aware elise had ties to Noxus, I thought she was Shadow Isles.... Vlad hails from Noxus but I don't think his lore really ties to the "Noxian Dream", it just takes place in Noxus. Gotta happen somewhere.
: Can Preseason introduce the removal of Mage supports bot lane?
How? It's like ranged top. Everyone wants it to happen but no one can give a 'how' without breaking some other aspect of the game. Crank ADC MR? ADC mid. Nerf Spellthiefs? Affects enchanters too. Nerf mana? Kills their mid presence unless you add a refund system for farming. Which didn't work for Velkoz BTW.
: This post will be to answer your 2nd part about "Tank items suck because" 1. Grasp gives health back and increases your max health. Overgrowth increases max health Revitalize increases shield power and healing amount second wind restores health when poked with a low cd time conditioning gives a good amount of armor and magic resist Guardian gives a shield to you and an ally standing by you/ And yet you state "all the runes are offensive (even half the Resolve tree)" Sure font of life doesnt make you tankier but it does make your team tankier over all by healing them. 2. "The game is all about snowballing, and tank items don't contribute to that. If you aren't fighting to win, you're losing" Then if we go by what you're saying. CC doesnt contribute to dmg so champs with cc are weak. "Stalemating lane is not good enough anymore" This is an opinion "If you let them get 2 plates, or they deny you 2-3 waves of CS, they basically got a kill off you anyway" keyword "let them". They "deny you" through what means? Using their jungler? You arent just denied without having counter options (roaming, basing and getting back to lane to refresh your health and mana pool as well as then intiating a freeze). "they basically got a kill off you anyway." Even with a kill ahead, a team with a tank will win a teamfight against a team with a bruiser when both teams are playing properly. "Which they then use to kill you through your tank stats, leaving them free to take more plates and deny more creeps" a long sword difference where it can be alot doesnt spiral to this extent unless the player is refusing to their respect their opponent and both champions' limits. 3. Well % hp dmg is still reduced by armor and magic resist so % hp cant be an argument used here. We're not arguing to make tanks unkillable. I think we can both agree that wouldnt be balanced. Im curious as to what champions in the competitive roster use true dmg, if you can name like 5 out of the "half of the competitive roster" you claimed. "Conqueror converts a sizeable amount of your damage to true." I cant take this statement seriously. Not because of conqueror but because of what you stated earlier about thornmail and sunfire's passive being unusable later on in the game. Where you deal over 400 dmg those. But 8% true dmg is now a sizeable amount. 8% true dmg out of 5000 dmg is 400 true dmg. Thats equivalent to 8 auto attacks from an adc with little to no armor built. Which is about 4 seconds of dmg. Oddly enough they have to auto to get that 400 true dmg but when tanks get 400-1.3k dmg for existing its "unusable". Do you see the bias in your statements?
> [{quoted}](name=Chainman3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kiGvNxwO,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2019-11-09T00:09:31.488+0000) > > This post will be to answer your 2nd part about "Tank items suck because" > > 1. Grasp gives health back and increases your max health. > Overgrowth increases max health > Revitalize increases shield power and healing amount > second wind restores health when poked with a low cd time > conditioning gives a good amount of armor and magic resist > Guardian gives a shield to you and an ally standing by you/ > And yet you state "all the runes are offensive (even half the Resolve tree)" > Sure font of life doesnt make you tankier but it does make your team tankier over all by healing them. Grasp, conditioning and Overgrowth are 'the good half' Guardian would be too but I hardly see it used... And you forgot Aftershock. conditional and temporary, but pretty effective. Revitalize doesn't affect most tanks. Second wind and Font of Life provide pathetic healing as the game goes on. Font heals for 1% of max HP, most tanks without an HP steroid cap out at somewhere around 4k. So every hit restores 20 HP per second. Second wind is good for dealing with poke in lane phase, but in teamfights it's far too slow. 4% of MISSING HP over 10 seconds is only .4% of your missing health per second, roughly 16 HP/s using the 4k mark above... once you take a hit that leaves you at 1% health! Also how often do you engage fights at low HP as a tank? Bone plating is OK in the lane phase, assuming the opponent can't poke it off you without committing. Then there's Demolish, Shield bash, and Unflinching. Demolish performs a much needed push supplement. Unflinching is good but not directly tanky. Shield bash is... oddly not that great on lots of tanks. How many tanks have an actual shield? Nope {{champion:12}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:154}} Technically, BUT {{champion:3}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:20}} Yes, and on demand (ish) {{champion:111}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:223}} > 2. "The game is all about snowballing, and tank items don't contribute to that. If you aren't fighting to win, you're losing" > Then if we go by what you're saying. CC doesnt contribute to dmg so champs with cc are weak. Are you even trying? I said it's about playing to win. Keeping your opponent from fighting back or running away when the jungler comes is huge for snowballing. > "Stalemating lane is not good enough anymore" > This is an opinion No it's a fact, again. due to the following > "If you let them get 2 plates, or they deny you 2-3 waves of CS, they basically got a kill off you anyway" > keyword "let them". They "deny you" through what means? Using their jungler? You arent just denied without having counter options (roaming, basing and getting back to lane to refresh your health and mana pool as well as then intiating a freeze). If you can't fight them you can't stop them from controlling the wave. What are you going to do when a darius is controlling the wave as a tank laner? Walk up to stop the freeze? Nope. CS under tower? Good luck. Back? And fall behind on more EXP and any chance at gold. Maybe you roam, you probably won't get the kill (in fact you shouldn't since you're the tank) and you lose out on a lot of EXP. Meanwhile they take plates CUZ YOU ROAMED. > "they basically got a kill off you anyway." > Even with a kill ahead, a team with a tank will win a teamfight against a team with a bruiser when both teams are playing properly. That's an opinion. There are far more factors to that than archetypes. Mostly being which team is fed. And counting on both teams to play properly in soloQ? Good one! As a tank you're completely reliant on teammates to pull their weight. As a bruiser you can force splits or get picks on your own. > "Which they then use to kill you through your tank stats, leaving them free to take more plates and deny more creeps" > a long sword difference where it can be alot doesnt spiral to this extent unless the player is refusing to their respect their opponent and both champions' limits. Mostly true, I was just having Garen flashbacks... > 3. Well % hp dmg is still reduced by armor and magic resist so % hp cant be an argument used here. Um, yeah. We can :) > We're not arguing to make tanks unkillable. I think we can both agree that wouldnt be balanced. Im curious as to what champions in the competitive roster use true dmg, if you can name like 5 out of the "half of the competitive roster" you claimed. Counting % health, since that was the statement I made. And adding meaningful innate Shred: {{champion:164}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:141}} (Red) {{champion:240}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:83}} I'm sure you'll disagree on what 'competitive' is so I'll add em all. The damage dealers, tanks aren't exactly deleting other tanks... As well as the likes of {{champion:11}} Who can build {{item:1419}} {{item:3153}} Conqueror and base true damage and delete tanks in literally 2 seconds. Almost anyone who can make solid use of BotRK or Liandries, since they can also use Last Whisper or Void Staff. > "Conqueror converts a sizeable amount of your damage to true." > I cant take this statement seriously. Not because of conqueror but because of what you stated earlier about thornmail and sunfire's passive being unusable later on in the game. Where you deal over 400 dmg those. But 8% true dmg is now a sizeable amount. 8% true dmg out of 5000 dmg is 400 true dmg. Thats equivalent to 8 auto attacks from an adc with little to no armor built. Which is about 4 seconds of dmg. Oddly enough they have to auto to get that 400 true dmg but when tanks get 400-1.3k dmg for existing its "unusable". Do you see the bias in your statements? Never said anything about Thornmail, and Sunfire IS LAUGHABLE. We're talking 40 DPS in melee range, in magic damage. 40 DPS when squishies breach 2k hp is nothing. And anyone who wants to be in melee range will have plenty more and far more resistances or lifesteal. Whereas 8% of a damage based character is A LOT of true damage on characters that were never meant to have it. On it's own it's not that much, but in concert with EVERYTHING ELSE it means tanks die too easily. You're trying to act like you only have to account for one at a time, but that's not how it works.
: " And you can't use its effect because the rest of the game is so damage heavy you die within 5 seconds even built full tank. No synergy with other tank items or effects." This is your opinion not a fact. I would argue against this take for example. {{item:3075}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3001}} What tanks get from these items 350 hp + 425 hp + 250 hp = 1025 hp 80 armor + 60 armor = 140 armor 55 magic resist dealing 25 + 14 magic dmg from thorn mail per hit = 39 dealing 25 + (1 * champion level) magic dmg per hit = at level 13 (around team fight time) = 38 magic dmg per second 39 +38 = 77 magic dmg per hit * passive of abyssal for 15% more magic dmg aura = 89 dmg per second/hit lasting 5 seconds 89 * 5 = 445 dmg if you get this to hit 2-3 champions since it is an aura ability = 890 to 1335 dmg. And all that is dmg "you cant use"? Remmber this is without lifting a finger and you're doing 445-1335 dmg. No abilities, no autos, nothing on your part besides existing. Thats also only 3 items in. And what do you still get from it well 1025 hp 140 armor and 55 magic resist to tank with. As well as any dmg taken is given back in the form of mana and any mana spent heals you for 20% of the cost. Add in {{item:3065}} for more healing or {{item:3083}} for flat health to survive longer and if youre still being melted {{item:3047}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3026}} to help your survival. If you have alot of health already investing in a {{item:3193}} could work in your benefit. So again im looking for stats and facts to back up claims not opinions or what players have argued for the longest time. Edit: "I. Edge is a stat driven item with an effect, with ~112% gold efficiency. The effect has strong synergy with itself and other offensive items." And frozen heart? Whats its gold efficiency? WITHOUT its passive its 115~% gold efficient.
> And frozen heart? Whats its gold efficiency? WITHOUT its passive its 115~% gold efficient. Much of it is mana. For combat purposes it's only ~94% gold efficient. Compared to the ADC mana items, Essence Reaver is 120% gold efficient and Muramana is 138% gold efficient not even counting base mana in the AWE passive (admittedly it's a stacking item, and those are always inflated. you know who doesn't have a real stacking item? Tanks). > " And you can't use its effect because the rest of the game is so damage heavy you die within 5 seconds even built full tank. No synergy with other tank items or effects." > This is your opinion not a fact. It IS a fact and you can tell in any game there's a tank. See how long they last against a target with any sort of anti-tank. > I would argue against this take for example. > > {{item:3001}} {{item:3075}} {{item:3068}} > > What tanks get from these items > 350 hp + 425 hp + 250 hp = 1025 hp > 80 armor + 60 armor = 140 armor > 55 magic resist > > dealing 25 + 14 magic dmg from thorn mail per hit = 39 > dealing 25 + (1 champion level) magic dmg per hit = at level 13 (around team fight time) = 38 magic dmg per second > 39 +38 = 77 magic dmg per hit passive of abyssal for 15% more magic dmg aura = 89 dmg per second/hit > > lasting 5 seconds 89 * 5 = 445 dmg if you get this to hit 2-3 champions since it is an aura ability = 890 to 1335 dmg. > > And all that is dmg "you cant use"? > > Remmber this is without lifting a finger and you're doing 445-1335 dmg. No abilities, no autos, nothing on your part besides existing You seem to be throwing out a lot of numbers, with no real direction or logic as to how they apply in a real scenario. You aren't even taking MR into account. And you're giving yourself the best possible scenario. And you're putting SFs solid DPS in with TMs damage per hit, so you aren't actually "put more effort calculating and breaking down your post" Fortunately I never said anything about Thornmail, and was specifically referring to Sunfire, which is VERY easy to calculate. Base MR for ADCs is 30, resulting in ~23% reduced damage but +15% from Mask. Sunfire does up to 43 DPS. Adding in the shred from Mask thats a whopping 38 dps per target at max level! As for Thornmail it's one of the better tank items despite its lack of cost effectiveness. If any of the other tank items were more cost effective it would be even better since it synergizes with other hard stats. Also INB4 NERRRRRRRRRRRRRDS.gif
: "Buying any purely defensive items accomplishes nothing in lane. " It accomplishes keeping you alive under the pretense that you're not trying to constantly fight your lane opponent. "Any champion that first buys a tank item hits like a wet noodle, pushes like an enchanter and tickles objectives" So you want to buy defensively and do dmg, seems kind of contradictory. "Even a pinch of Adaptive Force would go a long way for some of these items as it would make laning with them much more viable." If you've played any team based builder games, you should understand that you dont build dps on your healers or tanks in spots where you can build defensively. Because their role on your team would be to heal and tank and offensive stats on those units would do little to nothing especially for the role theyre trying to fill. Having more adaptive force or dmg to towers isnt going to make your cc last longer, or make it come off cooldown faster. The minimal amount of of return on the invested stats just isnt worth it IF you're trying to tank. "Not one of them has even remotely cost-effective stats." Sunfire cape- Paying 50g for the passive being increased from 6-23 to 26-43 dmg. Bami's passive is around a 360g passive and you're doubling that output for about 50g more you get 700g worth of a passive. Ill put the math here: ruby crystal = 150 hp for 400g thats 2.667 gold per 1hp bami's cinder = 200 hp for 900g 2.6667 * 200 = 533.33 gold 900g-533g = 367g = bami's passive Now for sunfire's math: Sunfire gives = 60 armor 425 health and the passive chain vest = 40 armor for 800g so 20g per 1 armor 60*20 = 1200g we know from above 2.667 gold per 1 hp 2.667* 425 = 1133g 1200 + 1133 = 2333g total cost of sunfire = 2750 2750 - 2333 = 417g We know bami passive is worth 367g 417 - 367 = 50g So for the increase from 6-23 to 23-43 dmg (which is more than double dmg early and scales to just under double the dmg later) you're paying 50g more, that isnt cost effective to you? Now lets look at thorn mail 80 armor + 250 health + reflect passive + atk spd slow passive As you said the stats are 2267g 2900-2267 = 633g Lets see how much the passive's are worth: Bramble 1000g 35 armor + passive 35* 20g/armor = 700g reflect passive = 300g Wardens 1000g 40*20 = 800g atk speed slow passive = 200g Now the slow passive on thorn mail and wardens is the same so now we just need the reflect passive Thorn mail 2900g 2900 -2267 = 633g - 200 = 433g Bramble passive is 3+10% armor is reflected =300g Thorn mail passive is 25+ 10% armor =433g 433g-300 = 133g So lets say you have only thornmail built thats 25+(0.1*80) = 33 dmg reflected Where bramble with 80 armor would deal 3 + (0.1*80) = 11 dmg reflected So thornmails passive with 80 armor is 3x as effective as brambles. Increase your dmg reflected by 2x the amount while only worth 133g more which is less than half the first 11 dmg the passive comes from. In otherwords the first 11 dmg is worth 300g the next 22 dmg is worth 133g. Not cost effective still? "They accomplish nothing on their own." Thats why their job is to tank not deal dmg. Killing things isnt going to happen from tanking, why are you trying to take one role and make it do another role's job while also doing the tank role. Note: Please put more effort into your post because from what I can see, I put more effort calculating and breaking down your post than you did proving your claims.
Thornmail is an effect driven item with ~75% gold efficiency. Duskblade is an effect driven item with ~92% gold efficiency. Sunfire is a stat driven item with an effect, with 84% gold efficiency. And you can't use its effect because the rest of the game is so damage heavy you die within 5 seconds even built full tank. No synergy with other tank items or effects. I. Edge is a stat driven item with an effect, with ~112% gold efficiency. The effect has strong synergy with itself and other offensive items. Tank items suck because 1) all the runes are offensive (even half the Resolve tree), The top portion of the resolve tree has no defensive value whatsoever. 2nd row you have to pick between resistances or surviving lane. 2) The game is all about snowballing, and tank items don't contribute to that. If you aren't fighting to win, you're losing. Stalemating lane is not good enough anymore, because they get more value from nothing happening farmville than you do. If you let them get 2 plates, or they deny you 2-3 waves of CS, they basically got a kill off you anyway. Which they then use to kill you through your tank stats, leaving them free to take more plates and deny more creeps. 3) Tankbusting items and champ effects are too strong. Lets say you built Thornmail and Randuins. Dominiks cuts the cost effectiveness of Randuins from 85% to 67% **AND** Thornmail from ~75% to ~59%. Conqueror converts a sizeable amount of your damage to true. Half the competitive roster these days has either true or %hp damage.
GreenLore (EUW)
: You know free range is likely riots way of giving her an awful range at base, to make sure that she can't play too safe during the laning phase.
Except they didn't. 600 base range. Cait is 650, the standard is 550
: When is Senna being released?
: > [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BIRWoHum,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-06T20:50:36.219+0000) > > No thanks, i don't want to spend more time than i have to in that toxic bog of salt and egomania. Implying normals cant be toxic. Lol. I've seen more unranked people be more toxic than people who are ranked.
> [{quoted}](name=kyoyaoaaa,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BIRWoHum,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-11-07T19:27:44.724+0000) > > Implying normals cant be toxic. Lol. I've seen more unranked people be more toxic than people who are ranked. In norms the inters don't matter. In ranked they are taking from you.
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