Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Varis,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TyYRnIV7,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-13T02:32:24.516+0000) > > "Kept secret," but they have apparently unmissable announcements all over the place and it's user error for missing them? Is it something everyone should've already known about, or is it something that was supposed to be kept secret until the big reveal? Seems contradictory. Telling you what champ is getting a skin without telling you the theme is still a surprise. Here watch this, I'll do it too. The next Prestige skin is for Lee Sin and it's for Prestige Tokens. There you go, you know the champ, the currency, and you don't know the theme. Could be Star Guardian, could be Dunkmaster. Who knows? Not me, not you, Riot knows though. No contradiction at all. > > Even then, something like a silhouette (even a generic/undetailed silhouette) can show that "something" is coming without spoiling what it is. I'd suspect that would even build hype and excitement. Yeah knowing this client that's probably going to end up causing an issue. Riot would rather make announcements and it seems to work for the majority.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TyYRnIV7,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-13T02:48:14.554+0000) > > Telling you what champ is getting a skin without telling you the theme is still a surprise. Here watch this, I'll do it too. > > The next Prestige skin is for Lee Sin and it's for Prestige Tokens. > > There you go, you know the champ, the currency, and you don't know the theme. Could be Star Guardian, could be Dunkmaster. Who knows? Not me, not you, Riot knows though. No contradiction at all. > > Yeah knowing this client that's probably going to end up causing an issue. Riot would rather make announcements and it seems to work for the majority. Sure. If they put that information in the token crafting menu, that'd be great! The information would be readily available to anyone actually using the system, rather than the imperfect subset that happens to see the announcements. They could even just, like, link to the relevant announcements right in the message that's already present in the crafting menu. They frequently put hyperlinks in those kinds of messages without breaking anything.
: > [{quoted}](name=Varis,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TyYRnIV7,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-12T10:22:33.552+0000) > > Just a better laid-out token crafting page that shows what will be added before the end of the event. Any external announcement is gonna get missed by some number of people no matter where it is. If it's right in the event crafting, then you can better plan things out without having to cross-reference some announcement. Except musical skins (like K/DA) are always kept secret until the big reveal. I think putting the announcement in 3 different places is fine.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TyYRnIV7,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-13T01:49:22.041+0000) > > Except musical skins (like K/DA) are always kept secret until the big reveal. I think putting the announcement in 3 different places is fine. "Kept secret," but they have apparently unmissable announcements all over the place and it's user error for missing them? Is it something everyone should've already known about, or is it something that was supposed to be kept secret until the big reveal? Seems contradictory. Even then, something like a silhouette (even a generic/undetailed silhouette) can show that "something" is coming without spoiling what it is. I'd suspect that would even build hype and excitement.
: > [{quoted}](name=Varis,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TyYRnIV7,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-12T09:03:34.920+0000) > > "People who just log in and play and don't visit the website" is probably a group that should be taken into consideration by Riot. Spending the tokens as you get them shouldn't feel bad, and banking them to the end just in case or doing side-research on future rewards should not feel required. > > I'm glad you avoided this spot of bad design. That doesn't make the design less bad. it was in client too, you want an unskippable video about it when you log in?
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TyYRnIV7,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-11-12T09:08:11.086+0000) > > it was in client too, you want an unskippable video about it when you log in? Just a better laid-out token crafting page that shows what will be added before the end of the event. Any external announcement is gonna get missed by some number of people no matter where it is. If it's right in the event crafting, then you can better plan things out without having to cross-reference some announcement.
Kenneky (EUW)
: It's your own fault that you don't look at the announcements and posts Riot is publishing. They said even in the client that later on they will add Prestige Qiyana to the token store. How did I managed to get the skin? By having 3k tokens and waited for the True Damage loot to show up, and what do you know I somehow got the skin. I guess they have to make It even more clear, for people like you...
> [{quoted}](name=Kenneky,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TyYRnIV7,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-11-11T14:34:42.287+0000) > > It's your own fault that you don't look at the announcements and posts Riot is publishing. They said even in the client that later on they will add Prestige Qiyana to the token store. How did I managed to get the skin? By having 3k tokens and waited for the True Damage loot to show up, and what do you know I somehow got the skin. > I guess they have to make It even more clear, for people like you... "People who just log in and play and don't visit the website" is probably a group that should be taken into consideration by Riot. Spending the tokens as you get them shouldn't feel bad, and banking them to the end just in case or doing side-research on future rewards should not feel required. I'm glad you avoided this spot of bad design. That doesn't make the design less bad.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: MONTHS ago it was announced that Qiyana would be an event token skin And A MONTH ago they told us that it would be available for worlds tokens It ain't riot's fault y'all don't read their posts, or think what's logical and what's not
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A0slkhRU,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-12T07:27:47.677+0000) > > MONTHS ago it was announced that Qiyana would be an event token skin > And A MONTH ago they told us that it would be available for worlds tokens > It ain't riot's fault y'all don't read their posts, or think what's logical and what's not It is in fact Riot's fault that you have to go to the forums to read an announcement about something that could and should be displayed explicitly within the token crafting menu from the start of the event. To someone who just logs in and plays the game, it doesn't make any sense that a skin drops with a little over a week left on the event. There was a vague note about additional event content being added, but it's not hard to mistakenly assume that they were only talking about the High Noon stuff that was added closer to the middle of the event. In the crafting menu, it wasn't clear what was being added later or when it would appear, when it easily could have been. Now avoidable bamboozlement is taking place. {{sticker:sg-ahri-1}}
: Louis Vuitton Qiyana only World's Tokens?
Yeah. If you're releasing things the week before the event ends, it needs to be shown right in the crafting menu from the start with a "coming later" message and a cost. I've been sitting here spending tokens on chromas because I thought the "additional content" being added was just the High Noon stuff that was released a reasonable amount of time before the end of the event.
Comentários de Rioters
rema (NA)
: Riot, I appreciate you guys as a company and I completely understand that you guys are a company with a F2P game, but..$5 for a single emote is a bit much imo. I'd honestly feel a lot better about emotes if we could get them for IP/Blue essence. As a person who is sitting on 40k IP, good god Riot, give me more stuff to spend IP on! Sorry to say it Riot, but I'm gonna pass on buying these. I dont support the RP cost at all..{{sticker:sg-ahri-3}}
It's been years since Riot first said they were looking for new ways for players to spend IP. Since then, we've had ward skins, expanded summoner icons, chromas, chest keys, "mission passes" and now emotes, all almost exclusively for RP. {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Adonna (NA)
: THIS needs to happen IMMEDIATELY - there are enough annoying fx sounds in this fucking game. It's like using a cheese grater on my ear drums. Also, they really need to update the client sound options ie. I should be able to chose to have the **que pop noise only on** and not have to listen to the music, the ambient noise, and all that bullshit. Right now, my client is muted - EVERYTHING IS MUTED because it's the only option I have so I will miss a que pop if I'm not watching it 24-7. RIOT really needs to improve their client immensely. I know this doesn't make them money but it would greatly improve the game.
Uhhhh, you can disable the music. Settings gear in the upper right > client > sound > enable music.
: Emotes are live!
Poor Riot, eternally looking for new ways for people to spend IP while all their new features (chromas, ward skins, summoner icons, emotes) just insist they're worth RP. It's okay Riot, I'm sure a modest IP feature will present itself to you one day. I like emotes. I won't spend much RP on them.I certainly won't spend 450, or even 350, on them. For once, I recommend taking a page out of HotS' book - let these be a fun crafting reward or something, and lower their RP price. This is a situation just like chromas - I would be tempted to buy all of them if I could buy them all for $20-30, or closer to $1 each. At their current price, I will spend $0 on them. Not a good value proposition.
Reav3 (NA)
: He's made out of the Anti-Magic stone in Demacia, Which is white. You can see it in a lot of there architecture on the universe website. It's what gives him his anti-magic properties.
Interesting lore, but I'm pretty disappointed that this new guy is bumping off one of my favorite champions as far as aesthetics go. He doesn't fly, he doesn't look like a gargoyle, he doesn't seem like he has the same personality. Who is this guy again? As someone who's very theme-driven when it comes to this game, I loved the old Galio, but I feel no inspiration or draw towards the new one. Most of the reworks try to stay true to the initial champs (Ashe, Skarner), with a few exceptions (Arguably Poppy and... I mean, new Sion's pretty far off the old amorphous blob). The fact that Galio's rework wasn't given the same respect is really disheartening; it doesn't feel like this is a rework that had the Galio players in mind.
: He really doesn't seem like a tanky mage anymore.
Yep. I'm honestly really sad about the whole thing. It seems like they set aside the people who actually play Galio to make some new champion for everyone else. If they kept his look and personality, that would be fine. But instead of a flying, fairly broody, fairly monstrous creature (with a unique look, what with the flight animation), we have a buff, garish top-heavy Super Sentai-looking golem. If they made that change, but kept some of the feel of his kit, maybe that would be fine... but now, instead of a unique spell-casting utility-mage tank, we have a generic-feeling melee bruiser CC tank. We already have quite a lot of those..? I wonder how Ashe players would've felt if her rework gave her short brown hair, spritely green clothes, a playful personality, and replaced her control-centric kit with a mobile hyper-carry kit? Probably would've had a lot of non-Ashe players saying "Oh wow, this looks interesting," with all of the Ashe players feeling confused. Maybe this new guy will be fun, but he doesn't feel like Galio in any sense. I feel like one of my favorite champions has been abandoned in lieu of Captain Hammer Bot. Oh well. The demon skin is nice.
Vekkna (NA)
: Well, the idea is that you would nearly always have at least 6 bans. The same champ would have to be banned 5 times or 5 separate champs all banned twice each to get below 6. The probability of that is extremely small. And even with cases like Zed now, you have the rock/paper/scissor game of choosing whether you ensure he's banned or roll the dice on the odds that one of the 9 other players will ban him and not take the same chance. If Riot doesn't want the extra time and uncertainty of a 10-champ ban phase, blind bans would slightly increase the number of bans on average while also being several minutes faster. Odds are that one or two champs with very high ban rates would be double-banned, so it should average out somewhere around 8 bans per game. I think it might also be more climactic to watch in esports where the rock/paper/scissor mindgames would be dialed up to 11 and make for some pretty fun moments before the match even starts.
If you had this a few months ago, cases of "wow, 7 bans for Ekko" would have been shockingly common.
: Thank you for bringing this up! I hoped someone would! I'd like to preface this by saying that I will explain in this post why I very consciously decided not to use vector casting on her W. I hope I don't come across as defensive; do note that I didn't just decide this on a whim. I had to defend my decisions against many other designers playing devil's advocate for vector casting, I had to get leadership on board, I had our Insights team run hyper-focused user labs on this question, and there were many late night sessions where my arguments (see below) were beaten up by my peers. The reason Taliyah shipped with this W is not because Daniel Z Klein hates vector casting (although, guilty as charged, I do.) The reason she shipped with this W is because I strongly felt we could make a less punishing, more learnable version of vector casting, other designers agreed, and this W is my attempt to make it. Also apologies that this is a little lengthy. I am very, very passionate about this video game nonsense and have spent the last 10 months obsessing over this and other similar questions. There's still a good chance I'm wrong, but in the interest of an open and transparent question I wanted to lay out all of my thinking. Grab a beverage and enjoy! Viktor’s Death Ray and Rumble’s Equalizer use a casting paradigm we refer to internally as “vector casting”. You can think of a vector as an arrow with an origin point, a direction, and (unused in this case) a length. The way you use vector casts is either by pressing the ability button and then holding down left mouse button at the origin point and dragging and releasing left mouse button when you have the direction you like, or, if you’re using Quick Cast, by holding down the E button, moving your mouse cursor, and releasing the E button. There are two subtleties to consider here: 1) This is the only ability type in our game that asks you to not only think about keeping a button pressed (channel while moving abilities such as Varus Q do this too), but also to think about where your mouse is when you start pressing the button. This isn’t good or bad in itself, just unique. 2) The effect, including any pre-cast delays (such as Rumble’s cast time or Viktor's laser's missile travel time) begin to happen only when you have finished all the above inputs; that is to say, only when you release your R button or your left mouse button does Rumble’s ult cast time begin. The combination of a novel input type you’re not primed for anywhere else in the game (Point 1) above) with a cast sequence that tells you to hurry up with your second input (Point 2) above) makes for the hardest type of ability in the game to learn and master. From personal experience, I do alright with Viktor lasers in lane when I’m just last hitting / hoping for harass, but once the pressure is on and an enemy jungler is breathing down my neck I completely lose my shit and shoot lasers off into obviously bad directions / from bad places / fail to shoot them at all because I get so flustered. It’s not just me, either. (This is where I pull out some data. Please don't think of this as me hitting you over the head with numbers; do argue with my interpretation of this data if you like!) Both Viktor and Rumble have very low pick rates considering their roles and apparent power levels (although caveat here being that correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation, and lower pick rates automatically mean higher win rates due to a self selection effect). They also have relatively steep mastery curves considering that in both cases, the vector cast ability is the only truly mechanically demanding part of their kit, and most importantly, they exhibit a massive amount of player churn. That last one means that a very large percentage of players who try out the champions do NOT stick with them. This compared to other mechanically demanding champions such as Yasuo, who has some of the LOWEST churn in the game. Let me show you some graphics (you'll have to click on these to see the full version)! http://i.imgur.com/NcddmZe.png These are the mastery curves for Viktor and Rumble. The yellow into green line is their average win rate over games played previously; at the left end of this curve is your chance to win your very first game on these champions (41.6% and 43.3% on Viktor and Rumble respectively) and at the right hand of the curve is the chance to win your 80th game (I stopped at 80 because, as you can see from the jitter in Rumble’s curve, data was getting rather sketchy. There aren’t enough players who’ve played 80 games on Rumble, which is sort of my point). The grey curves at the bottom are sample sizes. Leftmost is amount of players who played the champion exactly once, rightmost is amount of players who’ve played the champion 80 times. The very sharp spike to the left is something we generally associate more with a younger champion (Aurelion’s curve is all spike right now). Ahri, who came out one slot before Viktor, has a super flat churn curve, with a gentle, flat hill to the left instead of a spike. But Ahri’s curve is much, much less steep than Viktor’s and Rumble’s (she goes from 48.6% to 54.5%, about 4% less growth over games played). So let’s compare to a champion with a steeper curve (again remember to click to open): http://imgur.com/DFgaV1P This, as you can probably tell, is Yasuo’s mastery curve. He grows from 40.7% to 52.3%, roughly 2% more than Viktor and Rumble. But look at the bottom! Is that Ayers Rock? No! It’s Yasuo’s curve of Previous Games Played. Notice the absence of a spike, and even notice how gentle the slope is. People pick up Yasuo and stick with him. The point here being, my working theory is that vector casting is a very hard to learn input paradigm that causes players to churn from a champion. The two points we discussed above (hard to learn input type that nothing else in the game teaches you + YOU MUST HURRY) sufficiently explain to me why this would be. While Yasuo is one of the hardest to learn champions in the game, all of his inputs are bog standard: place your mouse over the dude and press E to dash through him. Place your mouse over where you think the dude will be in 0.1s and press Q to point-blank skillshot him. Place your mouse where the bad guys are shooting from and press W to make some waist-high cover/a windwall. So when I made Taliyah W, I let these two considerations guide me: 1) This obviously has to be a two part input. Let’s not hurry the player along, so they have time to learn. 2) If possible, avoid novel input types. Can we piece together “point of origin plus direction” from existing inputs? Turns out we can! W1 (the first input you make in Taliyah’s W) is a vanilla AOE spell input (you place a ground circle), W2 is a skillshot from a proxy target--a little less vanilla (Lulu Q and Taric E do it, as does Zed Q from his shadows) but still just a simple button press. We now have two distinct button presses on a spell that already has to have a delay baked in (to give the enemy a chance to dodge this very powerful effect). This gave me the option to say, hey, Seismic Shove will happen 0.85s after you press W1. You have ALL OF THAT TIME to input W2, and how soon you do (or how much time you take) does not affect gameplay at all. Take your time. This makes Taliyah’s W more learnable. You can actually take your time, and you can even move your champion around during the delay if you need to. Additionally, if for whatever reason you fail to input W2, you get a partial success case: you get a knockup at the location you placed W1. Often that’s not optimal, but it’s clearly better than nothing. So to wrap up, the reasons I like Taliyah’s W over vector casting are: 1) You can take your time to learn the ability because we don’t rush you 2) The ability consists of inputs that are already familiar to most players 3) There is a graceful failure case where you get a knockup rather than nothing All this to say: I hear you, and I'm sure there are players out there who would do better with Taliyah W as a vector cast, but the vast majority of players would churn off her very quickly considering how mechanically demanding and frequent her Q is as well. Again, I may be wrong, but these are my reasons.
Sorry, I already nagged on you for this in another post before I saw this one, so I'm doubling up on you. I'll try to make up for it by making this one a little more eloquent. I get what you're saying - both Viktor and Rumble feel a little weird at first. But you missed an opportunity to make an ability that was the best argument _for_ vector casting. In Viktor and Rumble's cases, you're drawing a line - in League of Legends, that's always going to be freaking weird - and you don't always want to hit the opponent at the start of the line. Sometimes they're in the middle, sometimes they're at the end, etc. But with Taliyah, you're _not_drawing a line. You're picking a point, and a direction. That is, frankly, something that vector casting does very well. Your opponent is always going to be at the start point, so pin-point accuracy along the way isn't needed - all you want is "I kinda want my opponent to bump this way." I was even excited when I saw the ability, because I imagined how smooth it would cast with just a click-drag. Needless to say, I was fairly disappointed - even as someone who happily played release Riven and Skarner with all their clunks and didn't complain (except when the clunks were fixed, when I quietly said to myself "my new favorite champs are getting nerfed some day"), this ability just frustrates me. Which brings us to the learning curve part. Maybe it's because I played too much Viktor, too much Rumble (lol probably not), or too much League of Legends in general, but I still don't have the hang of this ability. I still pray every time I put it down, because I've goofed it so many times. Sometimes it pops people straight up because I didn't realize I didn't click it a second time, and sometimes I put it down in the wrong spot. Yes, the wrong spot - I've shift-cast (smartcast shortcut) the W slightly outside of the range, held W to try to drag, then released, and... the W somehow ends up at my cursor's end location, usually far far away from the enemy. Ugh. Maybe this feels good to someone, but unlike the rest of Taliyah's kit, this is just one of the least satisfying buttons for me to press in the game (outside of maybe Garen W). And the more ranty, less thought-out version: You said somewhere else in the thread that .85 seconds is an eternity in this game. It is, and I hate it. I hate it and I don't want it. I don't want your eternity. You can have it back. I know where I want the bump before I even press the button; why do I need an extra .85 seconds to tell that to the game? Is there anyone who presses that button without a direction in mind, or who changes their mind mid-cast? Is the fact that I don't need that extra time a sign that I'm not truly a Taliyah player? The ability seems to be telling me that I'm too decisive for her, which would be a shame, because I really like the rest of Taliyah quite a lot, and it would be a shame to part ways here, but if she needs that much time to decide which way to bump, maybe it's really not going to work out? I'm.. I'm sorry, excuse me. I think I need to go cry into a pint of Ben & Jerry's. (As an aside: that pint was already devoured after the Game of Thrones episode this week. It's been a rough week.)
: So I think what you may be feeling here is that the W has a spellcast lockout until the eruption. Here's my thinking. W is not a vector cast spell. I'm trying to avoid the novel input combined with time pressure effect that makes vector casts near impossible to learn. I want players to have as much time as possible to press the W button a second time, so I'm giving them all of the 0.85s of the W's delay to press the W button a second time. If I allowed you to cast another spell before the eruption (say after you pressed W a second time), I would re-instate the problematic part of vector casts, which is that you have to input the button down and button up as close to each other as possible. So you may ask why not just allow it as an option? Here's one of my favourite design mantras: **Optional power is mandatory** A designer can convince herself as much she wants that this mechanic she designed is an option that players can use if they want to, but that's never the real world a competitive game will be once the mechanic is mastered. If you gain power (and being able to cast another spell sooner is power) for doing an optional thing, that thing will become mandatory. If I said "hey you have all the time in the world to input W2, but you can only cast after you've done it", I might as well be standing behind your chair yelling "HURRY HURRY HURRY" into your ear. Here's another reason: **Lane games are best when both players play** When both players can outplay each other, a lane becomes a true display of skill [tm]. If Taliyah could cast E *after* beginning her W cast, the correct play would be to never cast E unless you saw that a W was going to land, at which point your enemy can't really do anything anymore. When you have to cast E *first*, the enemy is put on notice: Taliyah is looking for a W now! Be vigilant and dodge for 4 seconds, in which case you come out ahead because her E is incredibly expensive to cast. I feel this way we get the fairer game and more interactive lane action.
This is a nice and well-thought-out explanation, but that doesn't change the fact that "click W then click W again to pick direction" feels rubbish =( I don't have a problem with any of that, but I do have a problem with the fact that W still feels clunky after 15+ games with her. I always know which direction I want when I cast the spell, so please let me just click drag like Viktor and keep everything else the same. The inability to cast for .85 seconds after click-dragging W might feel funny, but it'll feel a whole lot less funny than the way the ability currently works. (not to mention that bit is going to feel funny no matter what you do)
Evoohhhh (NA)
: this whole jungle timer "thing" is absolutely tragic.... being able to track the enemy jungler through his clears makes this role a pointless mini-game of hide and seek and lowering the potential of ganking lanes. I am a junlge main and im considering dropping the role completely
I get the feeling that you misread something. The timer doesn't show up as soon as the camp is cleared, it shows up one minute before the camp respawns. This gives you less of a heads-up than having a buddy spectate your game to tell you where the jungler was three minutes ago.
: there isnt a problem with her new ult in my opinion. all they did is reduced the ult spamming issues where people (mostly low elo players) would spam it to kill minon waves or trouble other lanes for escapes ext. it makes using her ult more of a thought than a last ditch escape.
I'm confused. Are you still talking about Anivia? It's better at killing minion waves, and I think the initial slow is the same as always, so the "last ditch escape" thing doesn't make much sense. The slow just gets better at max size.
: True, you can't swap with Jungle, or take a camp in route to another lane... unless you take smite, and with the buffs to Cinderhulk, and not needing to stack devourer, that might be slightly more viable... Especially considering the huge importance that Rift Harold and Elemental Dragons now have, along with the decrease in the gold value of towers.
Top lane bloodrazer Teemo. It lives once more.
Aír (NA)
: Assists do grant him AP. Look it up. It is kills or assists. And that was the case even before this patch.
And is no longer the case after the patch, since they took the "on kill" component out in favor of just landing an ability on an enemy.
losHsol (NA)
: I think you should have increased anivia's R to at least 500 radius if you were going to let it max at a size over time
Yeah, the preview was a huge bait and switch for Anivia. "Anivia's R will get bigger as you channel!" Patch notes: Anivia's R starts at less than half its original radius and only reaches its original size after 3 seconds. They basically ninja-nerfed her E-harass potential in favor of giving her more CC. I'm kind of okay with it, but it means lane will be even harder to win, punishing lane counters that screw up will be harder, etc. Edit: I did forget to mention that landing a Q will be more rewarding, since R damage ramps over time. If you manage to keep someone inside for three seconds (lol), they'll probably take a decent amount of damage. Also buffs to wave clear ftw.
Quofire (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Varis,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=rEHRE4hu,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2015-10-05T19:45:21.882+0000) > > "Fitting." Fitting is the word you're looking for. Also known as "the exact opposite of ironic." =p Actually no, because the quote is "they are coming," but they're not coming. So it's ironic, because irony is when something happens that you don't expect, a la them not coming
But they are still coming, which is the way Raddak framed his statement. If he framed it the way you are, sure.
ReQnosis (NA)
: Ah, Kayle would make sense I guess.. Still sucks to see non-meta junglers punished/pushed out of the jungle.
It would also suck to see a champion (aka Kayle, maybe Twitch and some of the other non-meta junglers) nerfed for what is essentially an item problem.
Raddak (NA)
: Ironic for them to make a champion with the slogan, "They are Coming," and have Her/Him delayed on the day they were so supposed to be released, furthering their claim of "They are Coming." Planned Delay Confirmed. Riot you fucking snakes. Well Played.
"Fitting." Fitting is the word you're looking for. Also known as "the exact opposite of ironic." =p
: > [{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8xUnvn0G,comment-id=001b00020001,timestamp=2015-06-09T02:36:38.036+0000) > > The idea with Ekko is that he is supposed to be _the_ utility assassin, for when you need more utility and some fool to get blown up. Taking out his utility would ruin his identity (at least the planned identity) and I would like there to be a utility option for assassination style play. Utility. Assassin. Please. Look at those words. Look at those words and figure out why this is wrong.
Ahh, you're right. The words are something other than "useless assassin," so the community is going to hate him until that description fits and they stop dying to him. He's supposed to be the "scrappy" assassin with lower damage in exchange for higher utility, while still being crazy squishy. I don't see anything inherently wrong with that.
: How about a CC that makes it so that you and a target cannot effect each other? That might work on a diving champion; similar to Poppy's current ultimate, but weaker, since there are four enemies on the team that can effect you, not one, and you cannot damage the person you're targetting, so it'd be useless 1v1. Might be good in the bot lane, allowing you to ignore the support's attempt to peel, or as an anti-gank device, allowing you to ignore the jungler and run back to your tower. Would probably have to be on an ultimate... ...I think I came up with rework Poppy's new ult.
Came from Surrender@20 to say exactly this. Pleasant surprise to find my suggestion already on the page! I like this a lot better than "this would be too strong on a champ that can 1v1, so we'll put it on someone who's designed not to do damage." I don't really like that pigeonhole. It should go on someone who you _want_ to target, not someone who's likely to be ignored anyway. Put it on some evasive ADC or mage instead, or put it on a tank so they can slap it on a Vayne and wade into the team without getting shredded for a while. ...Granted, the tank could fill the support role, but still.
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Seign9 (NA)
: And of course the East coast gets no love again. GG Riot, gg.
Do people not know where Toronto is..? Or Atlanta...
: I think it would be really helpful for us if you could show some examples of threads on the forums that you REALLY enjoyed following on the old forums. A big part of the threaded/sort by best model is that we should be able to preserve the same flow of conversation while improving the signal to noise ratio. I'd love to see if we could translate one of those conversations into this model and see if it's just as easy to follow. Then as far as following a single discussion over a longer period of time - I agree that the model needs work. My hope is that we're going to find a really elegant way to show you what's changed since the last time you visited a thread, and an easy way to traverse through the discussion tree to follow the changes.
I agree with Sproctor on this (though I'm clicking reply on Pendragon for visibility). Champion rework discussions are the most obvious example - which does not make them the ONLY example, mind, just the easiest one to explain. In a discussion, the flow of discussion generally changes over time, and this is what makes champion rework threads such a great example. The conversation will start at point A - "Hey guys. We're looking to rework this champion. Here are some details, give me your thoughts." Then everyone chips in with their thoughts, discuss different possibilities, what have you. Then the designer comes back and gives his feedback, responds to a couple of people, etc. While this "phase" of the conversation happens, a reddit style is probably just fine. However, in these rework threads, there is inevitably some bigger, more important red post that changes the flow or direction of discussion - if you look at the Skarner rework, this happens several times. The idea comes up to move the shield's secondary components off onto the E and the Q, and in the traditional forum style, the flow of conversation then changes. As far as discussion goes, posts from before this revelation are less relevant, and it's assumed that posts after this point are accounting for this change. In the old forums, the discussion has now evolved. However, in this reddit style... how does one even denote that the flow of conversation has changed? One red post doesn't work, because only people reading/responding to that specific post will know about it. It's also unclear how that post has affected other branches of discussion, if it's done so at all. The alternative is to add it to the original post as an edit, which is kind of fine for new branches, but it's unclear which branches were made after that edit; which ones are taking that into consideration and which aren't. It makes discussion foggy, and results in a lot of tangent branches that trail incredibly far off from the current focus of discussion. Now imagine there are five more iterations of this, each one massively changing the intended focus of discussion as the rework progresses. The strength of the old discussion style is that the discussion is always laser-focused. Everyone is on the same page with the discussion, or at least not too far off - by the nature of that style of discussion, tangents die off, and the posters that contributed to them return to the main branch of conversation. In this example, every time a new "big" red post comes in, the discussion shifts - it's assumed that new posts take that change into consideration, and it's VERY CLEAR to the reader which posts come before and after those shifts. It results in a single thread of discussion, even if that single thread changes direction here or there. The reddit style, on the other hand, results in a broad web of discussions spawned off the same topic (assuming posters care enough to keep clicking "show more" on the threads of that web). That's kind of fine for those taking part in the discussion in those threads (which eventually turn into tangents), but it's much harder for someone to jump in and find the flow of conversation, and harder to identify which post comes from which shift in flow. I think it's fine for short-lived discussion, but any long-form discussion gets diffused by this style. (I would just like to reiterate that while this is ESPECIALLY true for champion rework discussions, it is NOT the only case where this applies. Every long-term discussion evolves over time - it's just slightly less noticeable than the instant shifts followed by red posts.) Edit: I also dislike the comment about the "signal to noise" ratio. Aside from the most extreme (ie, bannable) cases, I abhor the idea of letting popular opinion decide what I would consider "noise." How is anything aside from popular opinion supposed to be discovered in that environment? Blegh. Edit edit: It's also impossible for this format to "preserve the same flow of conversation" when the presentation is entirely different.
: If This Reddit Style Goes Live, I'm Done
I'm also definitely not fond of this style. I like ingesting all of a thread, without having to get through all the "highest rated" content first, and without having to click "show more... show more... show more..." We already have a League reddit. It's at /r/leagueoflegends. It's very easy to go to that subreddit and see just the kind of content that gets pushed to the front - it's the stuff that gets the mass upvotes. The memes, the links to other places, the "thing A just happened at tournament B" posts. It doesn't exactly foster discussion - it just fosters.. y'know.. upvotes. And that's fine! There's obviously a community and an audience for that kind of thing. The problem is, the community that likes that style already *has* a home. It's called Reddit. Let reddit be reddit! The old forums, while not perfect, at least fostered discussion. And it wasn't concealed by popular opinion and a million "show more" buttons. It also pushed discussion to the front page - by being bumped up by posts, rather than popularity vote - which is inherently going to foster discussion over the thread style. Maybe it's just because I'm interested in reading MORE than just the comments directed at me, but this format quickly wears at my attention span, to the point where I stop paying attention to more than just the first post in a topic. I could spend hours lurking or posting on the traditional forum style - however, with this style, my interest slowly degrades until I'm just consuming the first post of the top "hot" topics, and *maybe* a couple comments per topic.

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