: > [{quoted}](name=Blood Magicks,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UEE2sPcO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-06T02:47:04.192+0000) > > Alright, who the fuck let me win Narrative? Congratulations! :D
> [{quoted}](name=Bioluminescence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UEE2sPcO,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-03-06T03:03:18.049+0000) > > Congratulations! :D Quick question Bio, will there be in-depth feedback posted or Honorable Mentions for the Narrative contest? I admit, I’m hopeful that my entry could be in the Mentions bit, I did a risk in writing an entry for a character (LeBlanc in this case) who was just about be to lore-updated, so my entry and current lore no longer mesh. Still, I was happy to write a swan-song to old-lore-LeBlanc in someway. Plus, my infamous volatile temper both here and on reddit probably also didn’t do me any favours.
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: One thing Maple didn't mention was Vietnam is the 2nd largest region (slightly larger than Korea and EUW and 1.5 times NA). I think a lot of people are interpreting it as Vietnam being the smallest region or something.
Quick question, I made a bigger post below asking how you get the statistics for Vietnam, as Garena recently folded the SG/MY forums which has cut-off any kind of communication we can give to Riot or Garena. I'm guessing Vietnam and other regions still have some kind of forum where you can monitor and gather the chatter, but what about SG/MY who I believe are the largest English-speaking region (collectively) in Southeast Asia, maybe the entirety of Asia? So far I've had to reach out to Riot Shadowdame several times directly on Facebook, because that's the only place we can communicate with any Riot employees. Simple things like which page is the 'official' LoL page - right now on Facebook there's actually two, one for Riot Singapore's official new Facebook page, and one that goes to Garena LoL for SG/MY; or how even the Swain ad promotions were over 24 hours later than the ones posted on LoL China, LoL Germany etc. Facebook pages. It's confusing, and above all we feel kinda ignored by both Garena and Riot support staff. I am honestly surprised that SG/MY is not on the charts, and I'm wondering if it's because our playerbase is really that low now, or if it's because it's been obfuscated by Garena. Similarly, where does Philippines fall in the chart? I have seen the new Riot SIngapore office and Riot Malaysia offices being set-up, as well as the larger ones in Hong Kong and Taiwan. If you happen to know, how is Riot is going to handle SG/MY so that we don't feel segregated from the rest of the servers, and that our voices are heard?
: What do we mean when we say the boards/reddit are a minority?
I have a question regarding the Vietnam statistics. I am assuming that you are able to still gain information like this even though they're served by Garena Vietnam. Where exactly is that information from? Is it from the player logs, some central forum etc.? Thing is, I'm guessing the Garena Vietnam forums are still up? Because Garena shut down the [Singapore and Malaysia LoL forums](https://lol.garena.com/news/general/closure-league-legends-forum) since October 2017 last year. We, Singapore and Malaysia, are the largest English speaking regions in Southeast Asia, maybe in Asia overall. We have not been provided an alternative way to communicate with Riot or Garena on LoL developments. Heck, I don't think the old Garena forums were even noticed by either Garena or Riot support staff. I almost had to Facebook message Riot ShadowDame directly because I noticed the Swain promos were a day behind other regions on the SG/MY LoL Facebook page. I made an NA account so that I had some way to communicate with Riot through the NA forums here, but it feels like SG/MY and Garena regions in general are segregated from the majority of other servers. We have no forum to discuss, and no way to know if Riot even notices our opinions or discussions even when we did. Even the Facebook page is confusing btw, because there is _both_ a Riot Singapore page, and another for Garena Singapore or something. So I want to know if you are being provided information from Garena, but exactly what source is it besides probably player in-game logs. Even then, I am not sure how much in-depth chatter or discussion goes on through in-game or lobby chatter, because we have no forums and no representatives to communicate with us over here. Reddit is the only global forum now for SG/MY since and before the forum shutdown. I know you have a Riot Singapore office that's very new, would we finally see more direct Riot support in our region once that office is properly up and running?
: LeBlanc's Classic Model
Yeah after reading her updated bio, and even the way she's mentioned in Swain's stories (plus whether or not she's the Faceless), what I read there and what I see in-game don't exactly feel like the same woman. I do think potentially-VGUed-LeBlanc may still dress how she does currently now...maybe less 'strings of jelly' but more or less the sex appeal is going to be there. It's honestly just that the current model is horrifying when you zoom in, and her in-game quotes and voice are still going with that full on haughty laughter thing that doesn't quite gel with the more insidious and calculating persona from her updated lore. Honestly, I think it's kinda what we have to deal with for a while till she actually goes on schedule for some kind of VGU and/or substantial lore update herself. One day I hope I can actually zoom in on my OTP without laughing at how bad their models match up now...
: Did the artist trace swains new face?
Swain the Deatheater is a lot closer than you think! You know that cool line ~~Lucius~~ Swain says in the Champion Spotlight? About “No good or evil etc” Yeah it’s partially lifted form _Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone_ and is said by **Voldemort** - https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/30725-there-is-no-good-and-evil-there-is-only-power On the flip side, knowing that new Swain looks exactly like Jason Isaacs has a little silver lining. Here’s Jason Isaacs currently, at 54 years old with short black hair: https://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/landscape_uktv-case-histories-jason-isaacs-still-3.jpg Honestly, if I had to see Swain in liveaction or my mind’s eye, he ain’t a half-bad choice. PS: And this involves spoilers for Isaac’s role in _Star Trek: Discovery_, but basically there’s a plot line involving a coup against a corrupt emperor that is mighty suspiciously familiar...but since this is in the latest episodes,it’s just a really funny coincidence.
GreenLore (EUW)
: And Tyrant Swain has processed VO and special voice lines that Dragon master might be lacking. We should wait and see until Dragonmaster hits the PBE before comparing the 2.
Nope, Dragonmaster also has a voice filter (a better one IMO) and unique lines. In other words, Dragonmaster is objectively better than Tyrant even though both cost the same. Riot deliberately gimped Tyrant in favor of Dragonmaster to make old owners of Tyrant buy DM instead.
: Dragon Master Swain Skin Teaser
I feel like Tyrant was gimped in favor of not just prioritizing budget to Dragonmaster, but also to make old Swain Mains with Tyrant into new whales. Dragonmaster even as a WIP has fully modeled ult form and transformation, complete with a unique flight animation for it. Features that many had ask be present in Tyrant since it was promoted as 'when the demon fully takes over'. Even such sloppy details like the animation bone wrap error on Tyrant's breastplate (the reason why it warps like its leather instead of keeping its shape like metal, something that's seen on the default breastplate) that was left in. This all come into focus. Feels scummy of Riot to basically punish their oldest players and mains, many who already owned Tyrant as a way to show their support of a niche champ, all to make sure they can fleece more money.
: Well, just because the general populace of Noxus doesn't know who the Faceless is, doesn't mean that the other other members of the Trifarix (Swain and Darius) don't. Swain's a clever guy, at the end of the day. He's knows what he's doing. And keeping the member of Guile a secret - well, I could imagine that creating a certain level of paranoia among those outside the Trifarix (particularly those that oppose/have opposed Swain), which could also play in Swain's favor. Cheers!
I'm also assuming this makes it easier to VGU the 'Faceless' without having to come back and rewrite any stories in the future. Smart moves!
Korios (EUNE)
: New Noxus lore lads! Get hyped!
So there's a lot for me to both take in and comment on, and I say this from the perspective of someone who has basically waited for this moment for more or less 8 years. This is becoming a lot less known today, but LoL's original write-ups for both Noxus and Demacia were actually pretty morally ambiguous in someways. And I know it surprises some people now, but they were both meant to be 'grey' in different ways. You'd have to use the WaybackMachine to find the old pages for the factions, but yeah, to me finally I start to see that meritocratic free community Noxus was supposed to be (although they were also described as xenophobic back then which made no sense even back then). Anyway, so it did give this old-lore fart a kick to see a reference to the Fleshing. Ah, nice to see some barbaric traditions are still around in reworked Noxus, heh. Could we see an {{champion:12}} or {{champion:5}} story update in future in relation to their experiences in the Fleshing? {{champion:7}} turning out to have orchestrated the _actual creation of the Noxus empire_ after disposing of Mordekaiser ? Interesting so in a sense that would make the sort-of...**Mother of Noxus** in some sense. I didn't expect her to be _that_ entrenched in Noxus' history, intriguing! Also makes me wonder if she had a hand in the creation of other nations. Also now she could be the sugarmommy to {{champion:50}} ? Naice. Though somehow I don't expect it to be as straightfoward as, she's literally a centuries old woman. Maybe women. Hms. I kinda laughed at how she's all covered up (_LeBurqa _), but I can see the practicality of it - I mean, she definitely need a VGU eventually and now you don't have to ever come back to rewrite how she looks in the stories! Also in-story, she could use any kind of proxy and noone would know while she remotely controls and monitors everything from some basement (_NeckBlanc_!) I think there's still parts of Swain's history that's not shown to us yet, such as the actual moment/encounter he has with the demon presumably down in the Halls of the Dead. Will that be in the form of additional stories, a comic, or being left as ambiguous for now? There's also this disconnect I feel with regards to how the knowledge of his powers doesn't seem as well-known as you'd think? I mean, in the dev diary, when they spoke about how 'magic is another tool', we pan on a shot of Swain displaying his arm. But in the stories, we're actually shown that he makes a conscious effort to conceal it until the right time, or that it's very much not commonly known. Not all his generals knew for example, and in the Ironspike Mountains, they heard of his injuries from Ionia but not of his recovery or his newfound powers. How exactly does Swain wield his powers on the battlefield in this case? It seemed the practical thing would be for him to go ahead and lead the battles, but apparently this is not the case. Rank-and-file soldiers would gossip and spread such tales as their Grand General being able to shoot red lightning, and having wings. But again, this doesn't seem to be the actual case. Could a Rioter shed some light on this? Some friends I've discussed with are kinda disappointed at {{champion:91}} 's complete absence from updates, is there anything planned for him to be part of the overarching story that seems to include other Noxians (even Urgot)? Overall, great to see the updates, and even if its greedy, I hope there's more to come as well. Thanks!
: Glad everyone's being so civil about Swain's VGU
Guess some players have to be the villains, but what would they call them when they succeed I wonder? https://youtu.be/_ksqAZmjtzs?t=19m7s Anger is good. Not the best emotion, but the only one that big publishers would respond to with more than just a 'Thanks :)' Anger gets you information, instead of having none but the bare minimum for a complacent audience. It's the passionate ones, who kept the hype up on the subreddit for Reav3, built the assets currently in use by it, wrote posts after posts of long discussions about lore, possibilities and the like all long before fat-bird-bandwagonners even knew the subreddit existed. What would have happened if these passionate fans didn't call out Reav3 for making up lore to justify choices? He wouldn't have actually _communicated _ more to explain better and not make excuses that only fat-birds accept because they don't actually care about the rework? Hell, most of the time all the comments linked to the Story/Art board is from subreddits because the Rioters don't need to engage here, they aren't challenged! And I know this will be downvoted because that's what these boards are. A safe space for Riot and fat-birds.
Limrick (NA)
: Reminder That Nobody is 100% Pragmatic
IMO, the biggest deception is in how they hide how the current hairstyle is impractical in battle, especially with how Swain moves around. **His hair has no realistic animation (compared to say his jacket-cape), and doesn't even move when he jumps.** Because surprise, it will get in the way if he moves around like he does in-game. In fact, this proves 2 things: 1) Riot didn't animate the hair moving even the least bit realistically because it would prove that long hair really is more troublesome on the battlefield, especially for how Swain moves. 2) OR that Swain uses copious amounts of the medieval equivalent of hairspray to lock his hair down in one solid block that never moves. Which means he does it every day before battles. Which means the hairstyle is not practical, is distracting, and that he is vain to keep his hair like this. They didn't even OWN the long hair, make it swirl when he pirouettes or what's the point: https://giphy.com/gifs/26DN62OGC666jLAsM/html5
Comentários de Rioters
: Eh, I don't know if it's worth explaining, magicians never reveal their tricks... ... Good thing I'm not a magician, I guess. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} IMHO, having LeBlanc and the Black Rose be a "thorn in Swain's side" gives him something to work against, it puts Noxus in conflict and will lead to a lot of cool stories (one would hope). Because, stories can't exist without conflicts and obstacles that need to be resolved. Noxus was a little too _safe_ before these changes, IMHO. How can anyone show how strong they are, if there's nothing to fight against? The relationship is a side effect. Imagine Swain and LeBlanc, scheming back and forth, finding that no matter what they try, they can't get rid of one another. The rivalry leads to respect. They start to look forward to their conflicts, to being tested by an _equal_, it becomes their reason to wake up in the morning when they tire of everything else. And even when they succeed and destroy something the other cares about... there's an [Evelynn quote about that](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/db/Evelynn.move10.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20171115124131), that I may have pitched to JohnOdyin. So yeah, these ideas have been with me for a while (let's not get into my own backstory, lol) and when I was thinking about Swain, they were one of the first things to lock into place. Beyond that, I'd ask you to please be patient. Our efforts right now are on developing them as separate characters. You'll see them interact a bit, but if your hopes are really high for a fully fleshed-out relationship, that is still yet to come. We only have 600 words in our bios, lol. You'll see, there was probably too much to cover for Swain, there are a lot of compromises. But I wrote the lines to commit us to this, something new and hopefully better for you and other players. And even as we continue to revise some stories, others will start to move forward... And wouldn't it be more fun to learn about all this stuff there, than a stupid Interlocutioner post? Thanks for investing in these characters and for your patience as we continue to explore. If LeBlanc did ever get a VGU, I'd have some thoughts and I'd share yours. As for Tyrant, he's not really Swain anymore... "I am no man," etc.
https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/OrnateFrightenedHorsechestnutleafminer Pretty much everything I could have hoped to hear, and more. > So yeah, these ideas have been with me for a while (let's not get into my own backstory, lol) and when I was thinking about Swain, they were one of the first things to lock into place... >But I wrote the lines to commit us to this... Sounds you're kinda shippy there. Hmmm... > I'd ask you to please be patient. Our efforts right now are on developing them as separate characters. That sounds perfect! One of them turning into a satellite of the other was a problem in the past, and I definitely would prefer to actually see LeBlanc gain greater depth before anything else further. I waited 5 years, what's a few more? My only wish is if there's a reworked version of that one time Swain look LeBlanc as his date to his promotion ball. But honestly, I'm looking forward to whatever you've got coming now :D > If LeBlanc did ever get a VGU, I'd have some thoughts and I'd share yours. Thank you! > As for Tyrant, he's not really Swain anymore... "I am no man," etc. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2elqogqt0pI/maxresdefault.jpg PS: Actually I was wondering about Swain's title? Why 'the Noxian Grand General' instead of 'Grand General of Noxus'? I thought the latter follows the naming conventions of the other champs more.
: I think it's the secret to a healthy relationship.
Hm, 'a healthy relationship'? Since LeBlanc feeds Black Rose rejects to Elise, could all those assassins that she sends at Swain be 'soul food', to show she 'cares'. Or to pass on messages to him via their memories when they die, maybe? And I really do mean it, I am really grateful and happy that Swain and LeBlanc do still have a relationship (of any sort really) post-rework. Their interaction on-going story in the old-lore was my gateway drug into taking League lore [seriously](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/3mMTFWsw-ships?comment=000f). You could prolly grill me and I could still quote bits from their old stories down to the exact issues. If you don't mind, I am curious about how it was decided to keep/expand on this aspect between them? Was it because it was a holdover from old-lore, or because it was something you felt really added to reworked Swain's story? I definitely prefer how they're both more explicitly representing their respective factions, because at some point in old-lore LeBlanc just became an accessory to Swain without any obvious agency of her own. Without any stories/bios released yet, I don’t really know what else to ask. I am curious if we would see the ‘rework’ version of the coup against Darkwill, and what story beats would be similar. Could we also see possible 'taunt responses' on LeBlanc's part if she ever receives a VGU? Just seems a pity the interactions are currently so one-sided. Also are Ravenborn LeBlanc and Tyrant Swain possibly from the same skin AU? Sorry for the chunk of word salad!
: I think the more applyable term for their intimate encounters would be "hatesex".
Nah, I definitely don’t get a sense of ‘hate’ from any of Swain’s lines to LeBlanc, at least on his end. Yes, he’s somewhat annoyed by the ‘thorns’ of Black Rose champions and assassins constantly harassing him, but since that means he is getting LeBlanc’s attention and ‘care’, he sounds more excited than frustrated. Heck these distractions of her’s makes his life ‘interesting’. He definitely enjoys whatever rivalry or opposition they have. Their whole relationship right now gives me ‘Dangerous Liasons’ vibes. Too intimate to be enemies, too independent to be lovers, prolly too selfish to be friends. Sorry this got more in-depth than I wanted it to be lol! Uh, I think the sex would be rough but yeah, not hatesex.
GreenLore (EUW)
: We got the noxus icon on the pbe and the last big story events were all accompanied by a faction icon,so I think we can safely assume that we'll get a noxus update(also I think some rioters also hinted at this already). Though judging from Swains quotes it does sound like he is on bad terms with leblanc,but who knows what past they had.
On the surface level, they're lines to an enemy, but from his tone and his willingness to interact with her 5 times, it's definitely more than that. 'Frenemies', I guess, is a good guess, though we won't know till the stories/bios come out. Also the sexual tension is thicc tho. But I do prefer this sort-of antagonistic relationship, where both are still distinctly in their own faction and 'faction heads', compared to how LeBlanc kinda became an accessory to Swain's story in the old-lore.
  Comentários de Rioters
: (*Editor, not writer. I don't write anything player-facing at Riot.) I think you might be making me a focus for pain you've been experiencing for a while. I joined Riot last year, and moved to League as Lead Editor specifically around September. I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about the years where story/lore wasn't served as well as you guys would have liked - I didn't work here, I didn't make those decisions. I've asked around about whether we have a time machine somewhere in the studio, but no one replied to my email. Instead, I'm going to choose to focus on the fact that you like the Narrative work on Swain (for the most part). I headed up the team that created the teaser video, and I definitely see Swain's new lore as representative of the level and quality of work that players can expect from here onward. That's my area. I don't get to make top-level decisions about what a champion update will include, but I can make sure the lore content around them is the best version our writers and actors can produce, and everything starts to tie together more consistently. I'm all about turning this storytelling ship around, and building the lore up to be bigger and better than it ever was in the past. But Riot culture is written right there on the website. The manifesto is a simple one - and the players always come first. However, that doesn't mean that nothing will ever change. Nothing out there is ever "as good as it can possibly be", and Riot is in this for the long term, to iterate on a setting and characters that have GLOBAL resonance for millions of players in 20+ languages. That's an aspiration to develop something truly unique and amazing. Personally, I don't mind Swain's new hair - but I wouldn't advise him AGAINST going to see a barber at some point... :-P
> [{quoted}](name=Scathlocke,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WVJ9ZJ6I,comment-id=0008000000000001000b0000,timestamp=2018-01-24T23:57:50.735+0000) > > (*Editor, not writer. I don't write anything player-facing at Riot.) > > I think you might be making me a focus for pain you've been experiencing for a while. I joined Riot last year, and moved to League as Lead Editor specifically around September. I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about the years where story/lore wasn't served as well as you guys would have liked - I didn't work here, I didn't make those decisions. I've asked around about whether we have a time machine somewhere in the studio, but no one replied to my email. Fair enough, I got your title wrong, my apologies. I understand you were only employed last year, and I don't blame you specifically for the lack of lore-work that happened over the years, I understand that it's beyond your control. My main issue is with making a statement about player interest and activity with statistics as you did. Those statistics don't just start on the date of your employment. How long and how broad are the stats you're referring to? Is it only within the last 1-3 years? I am assuming you have background material for Swain when preparing and editing for the new lore, surely you know how long Swain has actually been in the game and that if the timespan of the statistics doesn't match, then you wouldn't be able to see the full context. Surely checking the background for the statistics you are going to use to back up a statement, would have brought something up? You don't need a 'time machine', just some logical deduction. > > Instead, I'm going to choose to focus on the fact that you like the Narrative work on Swain (for the most part). I headed up the team that created the teaser video, and I definitely see Swain's new lore as representative of the level and quality of work that players can expect from here onward. That's my area. I don't get to make top-level decisions about what a champion update will include, but I can make sure the lore content around them is the best version our writers and actors can produce, and everything starts to tie together more consistently. I'm all about turning this storytelling ship around, and building the lore up to be bigger and better than it ever was in the past. > And I appreciate the work you do, don't get me wrong. Like I said, I'm fine with the rework overall, and most of my nitpick so far has been purely cosmetic. Depending on the bios when they release, I may have more misgivings but let's be optimistic till then. > But Riot culture is written right there on the website. The manifesto is a simple one - and the players always come first. However, that doesn't mean that nothing will ever change. Nothing out there is ever "as good as it can possibly be", and Riot is in this for the long term, to iterate on a setting and characters that have GLOBAL resonance for millions of players in 20+ languages. That's an aspiration to develop something truly unique and amazing. > If you mean that the champion designs should resonate with many players, then yes I agree. Yet at the same time, Riot has mentioned that they hope to diversify their roster with non-typical character designs. I am sure many had hoped that Swain remained in that camp, as he once did, being the 'creepy old raven guy'. Because it is not hard to see current Swain as being the result of focus-testing the '[anime MMO wings](https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=anime+mmo+wings&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4lPDtqfLYAhXDq48KHQ8eC0YQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=968)' popular in the Asian/China market combined with fangirlism for Lucius Malfoy/Sephiroth. > Personally, I don't mind Swain's new hair - but I wouldn't advise him AGAINST going to see a barber at some point... :-P I just don't buy that being an aristocrat automatically means he needs long douchebag haircut. Heck, IRL aristocrats also wore powdered wigs and styled their hair, so that's not really a good reason at all. Swain could tie that mullet into a ponytail and bam, long and short hair all at once. Right now he looks so much like a combination Lucius Malfoy + [Vlad von Carstein pre-full-vamp-face-on](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7f/aa/97/7faa97f4ce65821e7bb08b3bcfed55cf.jpg), that I have seriously been subconsciously referring to him as THAT 'Vlad' since the reveal.
Wolfeur (EUW)
: > He literally looks just like Lucius Malfoy, and I can think of 5 characters with evil right hands before I can think of one that transforms into a giant demon bird. {{champion:103}} Because {{champion:268}} hybrids {{champion:69}} human {{champion:60}} animal {{champion:76}} and {{champion:75}} shapeshifters {{champion:267}} are {{champion:497}} so {{champion:58}} truly {{champion:62}} unique {{champion:107}} in {{champion:102}} this {{champion:77}} game {{champion:19}} right? {{champion:498}}
You just proved that even with the same overall theme of 'animal hybrids', none of these champs can be mistaken for another, proving the strong distinct visual design of each of them. Yet Swain can be easily mistaken for a bigoted wizard living in Great Britain who doesn't even exist in the same universe.
Epicurus (OCE)
: "Swain, the Grand General" would probably suffice, seeing as no other nation has such a rank. Adding Noxus to it just seems like overkill.
That could work, but is also a little plain. I just thought having 'of Noxus' would fit the current naming conventions like 'Zoe, The Aspect of Twilight' or 'Braum, the Heart of the Freljord'. The whole rhythm with Swain's current title just feels off for now though, just not natural.
Comentários de Rioters
: I think this reveals a huge part of what the writer and the champ pod were aiming for - Swain was a champion who didn't provoke a lot of strong feelings either way, as PE just articulated very clearly. Based on a LOT of player data and feedback, old Swain not particularly interesting to a lot of players. Now there are a lot MORE players who want to find out more. It's okay not to like something, it's okay to have the opposite opinion... But it's not okay to say that person's enjoyment is invalid because they aren't a real fan, or whatever. Personally, I SUCK at the game. Like, everyone in this thread would destroy me. But now I feel like I actually want to play Swain, whereas before I didn't.
> Based on a LOT of player data and feedback, old Swain not particularly interesting to a lot of players. Now there are a lot MORE players who want to find out more. That's because he's always had gameplay issues, well-known to be a lane bully and snowbally, or just flat-out useless after a bad laning phase. But lore-wise, it wasn't that players were not interested, it's that the original lore was obfuscated and hidden behind other mediums like the _Journal of Justice_. Then because the JoJ was discontinued for **over 3 years**, how can you expect players to stay invested when nothing is happening? Did you also use anecdotal evidence of a few weeks of hype to show interest? Are you serious? Why wouldn't the existing fanbase on /r/SwainMains or other places NOT show interest with a rework? Why wouldn't they clamber to see what is going to happen for a champ that has been languishing in limbo for 3 years? You want to congratulate yourself for having the plan to do nothing to lower interest, and then announce something new, and then triumphantly present statistics that surprise surprise, show players are interested in the new thing happening after radio silence for 3 years. While Riot didn't know what to do with the lore for a while, or how to market it well until recently, I tried. Did you know that, Scathlocke? I made posts [5 years](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/t49cb/the_journal_of_justice_is_back_2nd_to_last_issue/c4ji9h7/) ago, and [3 years](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2cqi0i/riot_opeli_surprised_and_pleased_to_hear_that/cji4p33/) ago, trying to help players understand the lore around Swain, because I understood that it was too hard to follow. _I gave up because Riot did nothing all this time._ Because I'm just one person, and the big fans are only a few people, with no resources, no ability to affect change, no ability to do anything. You know the funny thing? I like the rework for the most part. The voiceover is excellent, I love the direction overall, visual design is a mess because the red on black is literally a lesson the Virtual Boy taught years ago to never do and is hard to see. Also Lucius Malfoy. But right here, it's you Scathlocke, in your capacity as the Lead Narrative Writer, that tells me all I need to know about Riot culture. It's obviously not one worth loving or putting effort into, you don't see fans as nothing more than props and numbers, to manipulate to suit your narrative (heh).
: How old did you estimate he was before, out of interest? Because he looks a lot like my uncle aged ~55 in the old splash art...
**Original Art Spotlight splash:** 50-60 **Teased new updated splashart that was on the PBE:** 55-70 **Actual Live updated splashart:** 40-55 **Going by in-game voice:** A < 30 year old dude doing a bad impression of a 50+ year old, and ended up on ‘chainsmoker’
: > [{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6EA8Bt50,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-19T21:11:45.064+0000) > > Always funny to see names I recognize from /r/SwainMains around here :P ive honestly thought about making a reddit account just for the sake of going there lol
Joooooin us! We always get the cool new leaks first :p
: The crazy thing is, LeBlanc is (probably) even older than him. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
A May-December Romance has always been fine with me, doesn’t matter who is the ‘December” between the two. Doesn’t matter whose the sugar-mommy/daddy, as long as there **is** ‘sugar’ involved {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Comentários de Rioters
Comentários de Rioters
Ralanr (NA)
: “Old Swain” has charisma and history with many of the people he flirted with. He talked like an experienced gentleman who despite his rather intimidating appearance offered a delightful and professional tone. He was basically the nice royal or the CEO that remembers the names of his employees.
Exactly, so why so many people have this erroneous idea that he was this standoffish stoic guy is beyond me. Every bit of actual canon content we've ever had of Swain shows him being the equivalent of a social butterfly for a man in his position and rank.
: Disappointing to hear. Guess riot browsed deviantart and did see enough Swain x whoever ships or enough r34.
You mean the old Swain who flirted with the head Summoner during his League Judgement; who has a history with LeBlanc shown in her League Judgement; who brought LeBlanc as his date to his promotion ball; who goes to Sona’s concerts; who went to a cabaret show as shown in Battle Bunny Riven splash? Yeah, I don’t think you really knew old Swain all that well if you think he was just a sexless old guy. He was a charmer from the first day of his League Judgement.
Kurieko (NA)
: So they basically killed his character is what they are saying. Hes a dark gloomy grizzled noxian general. Not fucking taric. He's mysterious, thats why half his face is always hidden. Already have no hopes for this rework.
You mean the old Swain who flirted with the head Summoner during his League Judgement; who has a history with LeBlanc shown in her League Judgement; who brought LeBlanc as his date to his promotion ball; who goes to Sona’s concerts; who went to a cabaret show as shown in Battle Bunny Riven splash? Yeah, I don’t think you really knew old Swain all that well if you think he was just a sexless old guy. He was a charmer from the first day of his League Judgement.
Kurieko (NA)
: Exactly. It's like people don't know his character. Hes a mysterious, evil, grizzled old noxian war general. He's not taric trying to pick up babes. He would be utterly silent in battles and talking to his subordinates and nobody really knew who he was. I wanted them to keep that. I had no hopes for this rework but if thats who he is now swain as we knew is basically dead.
You mean the old Swain who flirted with the head Summoner during his League Judgement; who has a history with LeBlanc shown in her League Judgement; who brought LeBlanc as his date to his promotion ball; who goes to Sona’s concerts; who went to a cabaret show as shown in Battle Bunny Riven splash? Yeah, I don’t think you really knew old Swain all that well if you think he was just a sexless old guy. He was a charmer from the first day of his League Judgement.
: What is the old skin theme that you would most like to see revisited?
Crimson Elite. They were suppose to be the counterpart to the Commandos line but after 2 skins, nothing new :/ Actually the red, black, and gold colours now seem to be part of baseline colours, funnily enough. The line prolly needs a stronger coherent theme to pull it all together, since we only have 2 skins, it’s kinda hard to really see what the artists were going with.
: “Swain and LeBlanc are confirmed to have a connection.” Hype!!! I didn’t know that. My biggest fear was to make them unknown to each other. Thank you, you made my day.
From what I heard, we should all be celebrating! https://media.giphy.com/media/GCLlQnV7wzKLu/giphy.gif
: Like what?
Suggestive lines mostly, tho Riot did pull down that leak and its source by now. I was quite happy hearing what they said, and my post history reveals how I feel on Swain x LeBlanc, so, take that as you will.
: I personally am not a fan of Swain x LeBlanc. I always had a headcanon that LeBlanc (mind you, she's an immortal evil witch that passes on her mantel to keep herself alive) is more of an adoptive mother figure to Swain, having raised him in order to make him the great leader that Noxus deserves. However, I do think that Evaine (the current body of LeBlanc) would make a nice love interest for Swain, as it would add some perfect tension between LeBlanc and Swain.
She's not immortal, her old League Judgement quite clearly shows they have a promotion structure with the illusion of the standard appearance of 'LeBlanc' being tied to her actual headgear + staff. The current LeBlanc we are playing just happens to be the latest in the line of Matron LeBlancs. Her League Judgement literally shows her being handed the gear, and the previous Matron's revealed as an old woman as the illusion is removed. And current LeBlanc is quite young, I'd say about early 30s at most. Heck even her real original name, Evaine, was mentioned right in her League Judgement. She's now 'Emilia' as the Matron, because all Matrons must adopt the same name to make the appearance of being ageless. Granted, we have no confirmation if that original lore was kept. But I don't understand how you could have missed all that from her original lore. The in-universe illusion the Matrons made, literally worked on you IRL.
: Yep. [Here's respective post by Reav3.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwainMains/comments/79uz4z/reav3_so_i_just_have_one_question_about_swains/dp5cwg1/)
From what I've heard, if you were lucky enough to catch some stuff from the source of the previous leak before Riot plugged the hole, there were quite a few more definite details about them.
SSmotzer (NA)
: @Riot: If Someone is Possessed by all of the "Evil" Forces.. What Happens?
You forgot to include some sort of pact or general messiness with a demon like {{champion:223}} or {{champion:28}} .
: Some player types are more likely to engage with the lore than others
I mean, for me personally, Swain is obviously going to have a lot more lore questions simply because there is a lot more lore actually written about him. Take a look at the old-lore, meaning the old League Judgements and the Journal of Justice, only Swain ever had any narrative movement from Point A to Point B, and it took several IRL years. Point A: His original League Judgement where we figure he's got a masterplan. The Summoners knew it. LeBlanc's League Judgement shows she knew it and was in on it. Heck, even Du Couteau and by extension his daughters were slightly influenced by his start-point. *All the many incidences in-between, showcasing Swain's actual actions on the overarching narrative of Runeterra, including being part of the reason the original Dominion map (aka Kalamanda) came about* Point B: Final Journal. He did it. He's Grand General, he got rid of Boram, maybe something happened with J4 we don't know and it doesn't matter anymore. Basically, he had a goal, and he got his goal. It's the only complete story arc of any kind in LoL for a single champion! Every other champion, especially the old members of the original 2 year roster, only has the bare minimum of a story attached to them. A lot of stuff ends up being inferred. Their characters on a basic level are understood, but the rest is fanwank. And I agree about the fangirl-bait bit, but it's opposite effects. Swain and LeBlanc, out of all the champs, has the most actual in-lore interaction of any two champions. And not just innocuous conversations, for her League Judgement which is suppose to showcase an important memory, hers was a conversation with Swain and it was clear they had a history. She was his date at his High Command promotion ball; she pretended to be J4 to set-up the Kalamanda incident and then was even his body-double for his duel with Kieran at least at the start of the fight. She even got a bit huffy at him for being more distant since his promotion to Grand General in the Sion 'Reborn' page, but that's gone now. If it was any other male champ with LeBlanc, I guarantee you we would see _sooooo _ much fanwank for them as a couple. But Swain, despite Riot insisting otherwise, looks and sounds and acts like a much older man than LeBlanc, and that freaks the fangirls out. (Personally, I go for it but that's just me and very few others). So you get this really devoted and yet niche sub-group of fans, who know Swain is important to the lore, or are really really into his lore because it's already richer than normal compared to other champs. They not the usual type of fans who are usually in it for the fanart/fanfiction alone, because frankly there isn't all that many. And then these niche groups congregate only in certain places. The subreddits are usually much more receptive. The general LoL subreddit actually likes lore stuff, it's just that it's tough to slot it in. I remember my old-lore summary of Swain being well-received way back when Tyrant was released and there was renewed interest. Nowdays I stay on the /r/swainmains subreddit but already we're seeing the effects of renewed interest with Swain's rework. But I also think there were some concessions to human nature that Riot had to concede for the rework. By that I mean, I think Swain is more traditionally hot now. Like, 'daddy tier' to quote Spideraxe, and overall taller and bigger from the teaser art. If it means I can finally get more Swain x LeBlanc fanwank, I don't mind too much.
: So what lore update are you guys looking foward to?
I anticipate all those bios and old stories that have been reduced to stubs (like {{champion:7}} 's short bio and {{champion:14}} 's 'Reborn' page being gone) are going to have very detailed updates prior or with the release of Swain's rework. Which makes sense, those two champs either had a long connection with Swain (LeBlanc in old lore) or have new connections since their remake (Sion's). So basically if Swain's story is being updated and changed substantially, they would naturally be affected. So in that sense, that would also include the Black Rose.
: Regardless of the legitimacy of it, I'm so excited for Swain news! It's been so long since they foreshadowed his rework, and now it's starting to become finalized.
Hello, I'm the person on the /r/SwainMains who took a look at the Weibo images after PoolPartyTaliyah posted the link. It was me who confirmed that the Katarina quote was changed from Chinese to English, as well as other details. Weibo is only accessible outside of China via their app, but I am still having issues with accessing the actual podcast without using my Facebook account. In the meantime, I have uploaded the images + Chinese and English lines that the Weibo account also uploaded, you can find them here: https://imgur.com/a/BZCm9 I have indicated the details that were changed between the Chinese and English lines. By far the biggest change is Katarina's line, the rest are more about being more poetic or flowing better in English. I'll see if I can access the podcast, but I believe all the details have been noted so far, at least in terms of the lines revealed.
ChunLii (NA)
: This is really really really overreaching but I was watching Quas. Quas is a challenger level Swain main that I am certain he got invited to playtest new Swain. So there was this LeBlanc on his team and his voice got kind of caring when he spoke about LeBlanc like okay she will take bot. This implies there is something romantic between the two. Ignore me I am losing my sanity waiting for the rework.
If there is a VOD of that, please let me know. I will literally latch onto anything regarding my OTP.
: WE FINALLY GOT SHACO LORE
_Five Nights at Shaco's_
Lit Corn (EUW)
: I mean in riot official website , Zed and Syndra are related to each other as " allies " so they obviously met at least once . Tho if you read their lore its not stated anywhere that they met . I mean they are at least allies , now are they in an actual relationship who knows , they both love power ( strength ) and want to become as strong as possible , so they have same goals , why not i guess ? tbh im not sure a whole lots of champs are actually confirmed to have relations with each other exept for {{champion:498}} {{champion:497}} and {{champion:22}} {{champion:23}} most of the other are made up by fans , either for the meme or cause they seem logical {{champion:238}} {{champion:134}} ( ive actually seen some people saying {{champion:238}} {{champion:84}} but hey im not really into this and wont chose either one or the other ) {{champion:99}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:43}} and obviously the most famous ones : {{champion:44}} {{champion:81}} , {{champion:119}} {{champion:119}} , {{champion:157}}{{champion:92}} and they would have a baby : {{champion:17}}
{{champion:50}} {{champion:7}} would be an interesting case. It actually had old!lore to back it up that they have _some_ kind of relationship, it's just never stated pointblank what it is, but it is implied. Ambiguous enough that Riot has some freedom in how they want to go with it, and I think ambiguity pretty much sums up their relationship anyway. Also Interlocutioner already confirmed on the /r/SwainMains subreddit that Riot's keeping them connected for Swain's VGU, but didn't elaborate how.
: I personally see Swain and Leblanc as using each other and both of them know damn well they’re using each other. There is a huge well of respect between the two, but they both know eventually only one can sit on the throne.
I think it's a mutual agreement that Swain stays as the visible 'face' as the leader of Noxus, but that the Black Rose implicitly supports him while being allowed to rule in the shadows as they see fit. But of course, there's going to be friction. Old lore-wise, they were a lot closer prior to Swain becoming Grand General. LeBlanc even mentions he's become more distant towards her since becoming Grand General in the Sion Reborn dialogue. Though she still agreed to help him revive Sion.
: A Request for Swain's Lore/Interactions
Swain and LeBlanc's intertwined lore was discussed on the /r/SwainMains subreddit recently actually, and both Reav3 and Interlocutioner (narrative writer for Swain's VGU) commented on the [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/SwainMains/comments/79uz4z/reav3_so_i_just_have_one_question_about_swains/). Quoting from Interlocutioner's response: > Hey Spyro, I'm not working on Sion but I am the narrative writer on Swain. Per this general discussion, a lot of the Noxian cast may shift a tiny bit as we start to understand more about how Swain really rose to power, and we'll update things the best we can to reflect this! > **We definitely have something in mind for his relationship with LeBlanc...** > That's all I can probably say. A tiny bit more than u/Reav3 [+1] did. :D I think they would definitely still keep the whole 'conspiring for mutual power' part as canon. Her posing as Jarvan IV in Kalamanda is more or less confirmed by the Sion Reborn teaser. But I am actually more interested in their personal relationship to each other. It was implied in LeBlanc's League Judgement that she at least, has or had some affection for Swain. Though, Swain was noticeably colder to her in the Sion Reborn dialogue (she even notes they don't see each other as much as before).
Doozku (NA)
: And what nation would that be, just to know.
Singapore. Also a caveat, that we dropped from number 1 spot for GDP per capita to about 3rd richest country in the world in 2017 (near impossible to beat Qatar naturally). And to put our founder, PM Lee Kuan Yew's achievements in perspective - my mother and father are both older than my nation has been independent. That's how recent, and how quickly he spearheaded our country to develop.
Kazekiba (NA)
: Maybe. They did say Tyrant Swain is something of the baseline for what they want Swain to be. I wonder what they'll do with Tyrant, then, if his base resembles it's current form.
I feel like it'll be something really ornate, and ceremonial, just to be clearly over-the-top of his 'baseline' skin even if they're going to pull elements from Tyrant into his new base skin. If we follow the teaser image, his base skin doesn't really have all that ornate gold and red armor accents, plus no plumed helm. So Tyrant should still stick out quite a bit. I'm just curious at how they change his raven form actually. To me, Tyrant Swain's raven form was a true visual upgrade to his original low-poly raven form. I don't know how they could make his Tyrant raven form significantly different from a more refined base skin raven form.
: Small Swain tease from Reav3
I actually saw some anon on /vg/ mention the Northern Front skin being 'drastically changed' (they claim to be a VFX artist working on the skin). They mentioned it last week, days before Reav3 mention anything about the Northern Front skin, so now I'm even more convinced that anon was telling the truth. My prediction: His bird form is completely changed to a full Arctic owl model. With hooting noises instead of caws.
: Sliding Scale of Champion Morality
Speaking as someone whose IRL nation founder literally jailed all his communist opponents prior to an election, in order to guarantee a win, and then he led us from being a 3rd world nation to the nation with the highest GDP in the world - I think it is very simplistic to label {{champion:50}} as evil. Underhanded means yes, but much like my nation's founder, there is the idea for the 'greater good' for the nation, and that evil actions must be done in order to ensure the success of future generations. And the more desperate, the more vicious the actions. My nation was left to rot by both the colonial powers, and by our closest neighbors. We are tiny, we have no natural resources except sheer people and will. And with that, our founder pulled us up into 1st world status within a generation. In that sense, I see the same ruthlessness in Swain. Heck, my nation is a functional dictatorship at this point, we all know it. But we thrive and prosper, and I think it is wrong to label such a person as 'evil' if they actually fulfill what they promise and provide so much more. I'd say, Lawful Evil, at least.
: Yeah, and Swain's sorcery and nonthreatening physical look contrast with Darius' brutish fighting style and stature. Makes their alliance look very cool.
Also contrasts with the much-larger physical threat he becomes in raven form. In the old cinematic trailer for the Dominion Map release, Swain transformed into a raven and basically punched Jarvan IV who was trying to ult him. Even though the main part of raven form is the life-leeching, in-canon I think Swain does in fact get significantly stronger because well, he becomes a giant demon bird.
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WestTiger

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