rKRex (NA)
: Trolled by support
This board is a perfect representation of cancel culture at its finest. Someone disagrees with you? Antagonize and downvote them so no one takes them seriously. Works every time.
: Ahh, so anyone who isn't a part of your echo chamber is a Riot Employee? So you don't even want to have a discussion. Can't even look at the match in question since it was on a different account.
A discussion involves putting thought and effort into understanding the other persons point of view and responding thoughtfully with the intention of finding common ground. This is something NONE of you "specialists" are even remotely skilled in doing. Yall just misrepresent peoples positions, then copy paste your riot provided answers and call it a day. THATS rude.
rujitra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wmMpVA5H,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T18:57:32.374+0000) > > the same way you're rude to so many other people on this board who have valid concerns. You misrepresent what they're saying and attack that new version you created, it's called a strawman, look it up. You also downvote anyone who disagrees with you, just like all the "specialists" do. On top of that you do it extremely condescendingly, like you're better than anyone who disagrees with you and they're stupid. > > You still haven't said a single thing about the fact that people who truly troll go unpunished regularly. Yes I have. I have **repeatedly** directed you to look at this board you posted on and see how trolls **DO** get punished. The problem here is that **you are calling people trolls who are not breaking any rules**. The support is not prohibited from taking CS. Period. You don't like it? Fine. You disagree? Fine. It's the rules. Dying does not mean they are doing something that is punishable. The problem here isn't that "trolls" don't get punished, it's that you want these people punished just because you're mad at them - when they aren't necessarily doing anything wrong. That's not Riot's problem, nor the "troll"'s problem, it's **your** problem for not being able to control your emotions.
All those things out of context aren't punishable but in the context of intentionally ruining someones game by putting them behind and taunting them they should be. If you can't see that then you need to take your gold plated blinders off.
rujitra (NA)
: In what way have I been rude to you? You are the one making baseless and false accusations, flinging literally dozens of different insults at people, and showing no desire to actually have a discussion.
the same way you're rude to so many other people on this board who have valid concerns. You misrepresent what they're saying and attack that new version you created, it's called a strawman, look it up. You also downvote anyone who disagrees with you, just like all the "specialists" do. On top of that you do it extremely condescendingly, like you're better than anyone who disagrees with you and they're stupid. You still haven't said a single thing about the fact that people who truly troll go unpunished regularly.
: Haha ooooh, I see. Well good luck to you. I'm sure your mastery of facts and logic will serve you well when explaining to Riot support that actually, the really toxic people are the ones who are bad at a video game or do emotes you don't like, rather than the ones calling people inbred degenerates over said video game.
Yea yea pretend like he wasnt trolling. He was laughing, stealing cs and dying on purpose while emoting repeatedly and laughing. You're seriously clueless if you think all of that is some whimsical coincidence. That's the definition of intentionally ruining a person's game, oh but riot doesn't care about that at all it seems.
rujitra (NA)
: Then it should have proof. Feel free to provide some.
I know people that work at riot. They tell me things. Let me have them call you real quick. whats your number.
: Yes, you are expected to treat others as human's even if they do something to upset you. If you disagree, you are welcome to go find a game that better suits you. If your response is you can't quit league because you are addicted, perhaps you should seek help to deal with that.
None of you speak to my primary point, that people are trolling and being rude and not being punished because the system isn't sophisticated enough but YEA real easy for you to point your finger at the retaliation. Just like bad referees and bad parents. "Shame on you for being bad back at them." yea yea yea blah blah blah. Keep ignoring the real problem and dancing around it with your copy paste responses riot gave you.
rujitra (NA)
: You have been rude to everyone in this thread when nobody has been rude to you. And even still, two wrongs don’t make a right.
hilarious that you try to act all proper now that eyes are on you. smart move. And no I haven't been rude to everyone, just people who have been rude to me. People like you.
: Lol did you just tell me to go read up on what biases are, and also accuse everyone who is disagreeing with you of being a Riot employee in the same comment?
its not an accusation, its a fact
rujitra (NA)
: There have been no riot employees posting in this thread.
: ahhaha
haha yep the funniest part is the humans defending the machine, pretending like they're not getting paid to do so. Ultimate comedy.
Kei143 (NA)
: You are right, specialists are just players with alot of knowledge on a specific subject and don't work for Riot right. Some people just chose to spend their time on educating something they are passionate about. Nothing wrong with that. All reports lead to a review, but not all review lead to a punishment. The system punishes based on consistency x severity, so you kind of got the right idea when you say that people will get punished if they called others trash 50 games in a row. So those players calling you trash will have their game reviewed, deemed mildly toxic and have their toxicity score increased. When they pass a certain toxicity score threshold, they will get punished. Keep in mind that the system reviews for post game chat as well. So if they reported you, you also got your toxicity score increased.
Proving my point that the most truly contextually toxic people go unscathed. Just like in most real life situations, only the person who retaliates gets punished because refs (and in this case, the automated system) is too stupid to see what's really going on.
Raoul (EUW)
: ***
: > I said nothing in-game, mind you, because I know how riots stupid fucking system works. Clearly, you _don't_ know how the system works, because you can still absolutely get punished for misbehavior in the post-game lobby. > I wouldn't be surprised if riot still gives me a chat ban... It's highly probable, all things considered. > because of their...discipline system that can't accurately see who the true bad people are. > > I just spam pinged and then called him an inbred degenerate in post game. Yes, because spam-pinging and calling people "inbred degenerates" exclusively in post-game lobby in the vainglorious hope that you can evade punishment are the hallmarks of good, sportsmanlike players. /s. If you reported them, their behavior will be reviewed. This does not exempt you from the rules, and if you get punished, it is not due to a fault in the system, but _because you broke the rules._ > It's complete nonsense to be expected to calmly say nothing and "just play to win" when you're getting trolled by your laning partner, and 3 other people are flaming you for something you didnt do. You have the mute feature - if people are flaming you, _use it_. Yes, it is difficult to play around a troll/intentional feeder; oftentimes nigh-on impossible, but flaming them (and consequently, giving them _the very reaction they **want** out of you_) isn't going to magically make them stop trolling or fix your situation in any way, shape, or form. All flaming does is get you punished on top of your already shitty experience and encourage the troll to troll _more_. Nobody expects you to be calm; but Riot expects you to at the very least abide by the rules you agreed to.
"If you reported them, their behavior will be reviewed." LAUGHABLE The veigar won't get punished because he never typed, all he did was emote sarcastically while feeding and taking cs from the adc, and my other teammates wont get punished because all they kept saying was "vayne trash" and "vayne so bad" and that's not bannable unless they do it like 50 games in a row. For you to pretend like they'll get ANY sort of repercussions for their actions is a bold face\d lie fed to you by riot to feed to people like me who point out how terrible their system is. Just stop dude. I've seen you on this board and your copy paste answers help no one but you and your paycheck. I can hear it already... "I don't work for riot" LMAO so then that means you voluntarily waste your time educating people on this board about the discipline policy of a video game, which is even more hilarious.
Comentários de Rioters
: Banning system is a biggest joke.
100% a joke. The only justice systems in the real world that punish instigators equally with retaliators is grade school. It's a joke for reasonable adults, but not for riot employees who unconditionally agree with each other. No wonder they're getting sued by their own employees LMAO
Accenix (NA)
: This is a joke right? That's pretty ignorant. If you can't carry yourself pre 30, the only reasonable explination you have to level another account is because you got banned.
Ironic that you say im ignorant while you completely ignore what I said. You shouldn't have to 1v5 hard carry every game. The reason why I have a new account is irrelevant.
Comentários de Rioters
C104k (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EUXLWtk6,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-05T02:27:20.484+0000) > > I guarantee this will reduce the number of punishments they hand out. Good on you Dorito. Yah. No. Probably not. Now people will get banned for just playing the game or wanting to experiment. And everyone will just be labeled a "troll" now. So don't be surprised when you get banned for having a bad game.
I already have. New account, lvl 7 i get a 10 game chat restriction for a saying my adc is trash when she's inting all game. I'm pretty sure they've flagged my IP and hand out punishments just to troll me at this point. The punishment system is still fucking garbage but hey at least people can mute allied chatLOL
rKRex (NA)
: Muting Allied Chat
It's also glaringly obvious that this board is 95% rioters. Every thread criticizing the company, spam downvotes, but you say one nice thing, 40 upvotes.
: thing is if its a chat it is for chatting. if everyone just uses it for pings for spells and ulti cds then why is it called a chat. community is toxic but the punishment for beeing toxic heavily outweighs rewards for beeing not toxic. yes someone saying the K something something to someone should be bannable. but i shouldnt be banned for calling gragas fat or twitch a rat or fiora baguettemaster64. the bans are automated and seeing only what you say in the chat log just makes you look way worse.
first off you need to work on communicating better. Second, yea the punishment system is dogsht but at least this will somewhat curb it and it's much better than mute all.
Comentários de Rioters
rujitra (NA)
: 1. One bad decision does not make trolling. 2. You literally admit that someone was "questioning" her. 3. You are attempting to claim Riot is putting effort into chat punishments **instead** of punishing griefers. That is not what is happening. Riot has to put almost no effort into the automated chat system.
"Riot has to put almost no effort into the automated chat system" And that's exactly why it sucks.
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=U5aEU8TE,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-29T18:06:03.852+0000) > > Human reviewers can tell the difference between an overreaction and justified one. Were that always the case there would be no reason to have the human reviewers. The players are also human so they should know the difference between an overreaction and a justified one. Yet here we are. "Justified" is a subjective viewpoint. You also didn't address any of my points of the post that you replied to.
Yea people will try to justify toxic retaliation but THATS WHAT A HUMAN JUDGE IS FOR. I'm addressing your points, you just refuse to understand because you're set in your way of thinking. You don't know how people will react to a tiered system of punishment based on instigation, but you make up this semi-reasonable scenario like you're a fortune teller to justify shutting the idea down and its hilarious becuase the real reason riot wont do it is money. Stop pretending.
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=U5aEU8TE,comment-id=000200010000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-29T18:06:03.852+0000) > > Human reviewers can tell the difference between an overreaction and justified one. Were that always the case there would be no reason to have the human reviewers. The players are also human so they should know the difference between an overreaction and a justified one. Yet here we are. "Justified" is a subjective viewpoint. You also didn't address any of my points of the post that you replied to.
the players are in it, so they're biased. There's a reason why the judicial system has a judge and doesnt let the people involved in the thing decide the outcome.
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=U5aEU8TE,comment-id=0002000100000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-29T04:35:52.509+0000) > > Thats exactly why you need thoughtful human analysis and not a machine, to be able to tell the difference. A human review of every report is not a feasible option (not nearly enough people to accomplish that) nor does it address the second point I made; "There are a lot of salty people out there and have their own opinions on what slight warrants retaliation in their eyes. Telling them that retaliation is okay is opening the flood gates for people to think that it's fine to explode at the slightest perceived insult."
Human reviewers can tell the difference between an overreaction and justified one.
: Nope the person who retaliated should be as well. You can't expect not to be punished when you acted like a child even if it was instigated.
Both should be punished but not equally. That's lazy discipline.
Hotarµ (NA)
: >Instigators should be punished more harshly then people who reply back. Period. And that system _was_ attempted for a brief period of time. Riot couldn't keep up with the sheer influx of reports (both valid and invalid) so they created the Tribunal. The Tribunal got backed up because it turns out that humans aren't faster or more efficient than a machine when it comes to analyzing text, so more players skirted by without punishment and "innocent" players were punished due to the inconsistent behaviors of humans and trolls who would intentionally flag everything as punishment worthy. Manual reviews also pose the problem of costing time, effort, and money, whereas an automated system takes human involvement almost entirely out of the equation, saves Riot money, stops them from having to hire and maintain a dedicated team of player-behavior management employees _which in turn_ allows them to turn their focus to other areas of the game or technical support. Manual reviews _do not_ work. Period. This is my last reply since I feel this conversation isn't going anywhere. If you wish to continue this discussion, make a post in Player Behavior or General Discussion and see what the general public thinks.
They just went in the direction that's more lucrative for them, because at the end of the day, they're a business. To pretend like they did it because it's the best solution, as far as justice goes, is just silly and dishonest. All companies at their size choose profit over what's good for the people and riot is no different.
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=U5aEU8TE,comment-id=00020001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-28T17:49:23.124+0000) > > Instigators should be punished more harshly then people who reply back. Period. Carpet bombing punishments is done for efficiency, not because it's the right way to handle it, and does more harm than good. That's a sort of blanket rule that's hard to apply for everything. What do you determine as warranted retaliation? Some people feel like it's fair game to insult someone after getting a suggestion to play safe and hug the tower. Or when a support takes a kill some people believe it's fair retaliation to insult them. Etc. There are a lot of salty people out there and have their own opinions on what slight warrants retaliation in their eyes. Telling them that retaliation is okay is opening the flood gates for people to think that it's fine to explode at the slightest perceived insult.
Thats exactly why you need thoughtful human analysis and not a machine, to be able to tell the difference.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Toxic is toxic. It doesn't matter who started it. However many were involved is the amount that will generally be punished.
Of course it matters. It matters in court and it matters in life.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lH53BuLh,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-28T17:46:30.457+0000) > > No it's not. The person who initiated the toxicity should be banned, the person who retaliated shouldn't. Period. That's how you prevent people from instigating, you punish them worse. It's simple logic. Except that's not how the world works. Two or more people arguing with each other just makes the situation works and also ruins the experience of everyone else who has to put up with it. "They started it/were worse" didn't work in school and it doesn't work here, and businesses will usually have no problem throwing all involved out. From the [Instant Feedback System FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-#h1q7): >**WHY WAS I PUNISHED WHEN THE OTHER PERSON WAS WORSE OR STARTED IT!** Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game. If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on. Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the [Reporting a Player FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player) For a more detailed explanation from [**Understanding the Tribunal**](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2726400): >**4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???** a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.
Of course it matters. It matters in court and it matters in life.
Hotarµ (NA)
: > Makes no sense and teaches kids a terrible lesson _Kids_ shouldn't be playing this game in the first place. It's targeted at people age 13 and above. Even then, I think most people above the age of like.... 10(?) understand the concept of rules and punishment. >of allowing others to berate you with no consequences. There _are_ consequences though. It's not like you sit there getting flamed all game and nothing happens to them. Look at the post we're commenting on. >People have gamified the chat system and have found ways to be very mean without getting any form of punishment. Probably, but the large majority of negativity is punished. No system is perfect. Even so, _again_ that does not excuse your own misbehavior. Two wrongs don't make a right, it's as simple as that.
Instigators should be punished more harshly then people who reply back. Period. Carpet bombing punishments is done for efficiency, not because it's the right way to handle it, and does more harm than good.
: I mean, they do care. Otherwise they'd have permabanned players at the first sign of toxicity. Most players have punishments and opportunities to reform prior to being permabanned.
Wrong. Caring would mean creating an actually just discipline system, not one that's cheaper to manage and run.
: It's really not hard to be toxic. There is no reason to be toxic. It will never be justified. Counterflaming is still toxciity and should be banned.
No it's not. The person who initiated the toxicity should be banned, the person who retaliated shouldn't. Period. That's how you prevent people from instigating, you punish them worse. It's simple logic.
: Sadly this might be goodbye
riot doesn't care about you as long the money keeps rolling in
Hotarµ (NA)
: And if you're being harassed or feel offended by what someone is saying to you, you can mute and report them at the end of the game. But by no means are you allowed to respond to negativity with _more_ negativity. It's hypocritical, pointless, and will just set you up for reports.
Makes no sense and teaches kids a terrible lesson of allowing others to berate you with no consequences. People have gamified the chat system and have found ways to be very mean without getting any form of punishment.
Hotarµ (NA)
: > of course the bad conduct of others justifies your own, what planet are you living on. If someone hits you, you hit them back. In real life, within reason, yeah. Of course. This is League. A cooperative team based **video game** where you aren't forced or expected to retaliate. Nobody is waving a gun in your face, nobody is punching you, nobody is running around your place of business and ruining merchandise. You **do not** have to respond and it's far more feasible for Riot to crack down on negativity across the board rather than work on a case by case basis.
Hotarµ (NA)
: Someone else's misconduct doesn't justify your own. Nobody is saying intentionally feeding is acceptable, and of course that player should be punished. However, it's not your place to mediate or attempt to control the situation. If you were permanently banned for this game, that means you had multiple previous punishments and it was made abundantly clear that this behavior is considered unacceptable regardless of the context. _______ Also, as an aside: It seems like these lines were _before_ Kai'sa started inting. Of course, I could be wrong, but logically it doesn't make sense for you to start saying things like "farm up" or "just mute her" if she's **already started** inting. In any case, some of these comments are still considered unacceptable and might have warranted a punishment anyway because of your history of punishment. >DH Pix: please stop DH Pix: no DH Pix: just stop DH Pix: ffs DH Pix: farm up DH Pix: im not gonna ff xD >DH Pix: if u both get better mentals we can win. DH Pix: fuck this is why people stay hardstuck >DH Pix: just mute her brand. DH Pix: Brand >DH Pix: IDGAF DH Pix: MUTE DH Pix: this game needs an age limit And to finalize my comment, this section of chat stood out to me: >DH Pix: can I be banned for my pms? DH Pix: to a player? >DH Pix: Can I be banned for my private messages? Again, not entirely sure and of course I could be wrong here; It seems like you were saying this because you wanted to add Kai'sa after the game to flame her. If that is the case, you've misunderstood or outright ignored the punishments you were given, and they don't seem to have had an effect.
of course the bad conduct of others justifies your own, what planet are you living on. If someone hits you, you hit them back.
: Working as intended. It got you didn't it? Toxic is toxic and two wrongs don't make a right. The point of the system is punishing those who are going against the policy and it did just that. While you reported one player, others reported YOU. And not just for this game, others reported you in other games you ruined for them. Riot booming-with-life and long-surviving game seem to be doing quite well. Nothing seems to change.
yea definitely working as intended. Intended to line the pockets of the company owners with gold.
: People: Real talk. How do you guys even manage to get banned?
rujitra (NA)
: I doubt Riot would do this as any competent person would understand that it **will** be revealed eventually, and when it is, it'd cause a **massive** PR nightmare that Riot may not be able to recover from. The community already thinks streamers/pro players are the only ones that matter - that would make it worse. The issue is that even toxicity in game isn't punished unless it is reported by someone in that game. Many streamers/pro players maintain "professional" relationships with many of the other players in their MMR - leading to some more "friendly banter" that may be considered toxic outside friends.
Nostradamus here guys. He knows the future.
: > [{quoted}](name=rKRex,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mGENPbgO,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-06-30T06:43:35.228+0000) > > yea they can, there aren't that many. total bs Riot can hire me. I can sit down for literally an hour and get most of them banned. There's really not that many. If I did what Tarzanned or NB3 does, I would be banned by now.
100%. Streamers the worst, and setting a bad example for all the kids watching them but riot doesnt care because $$$$$
Kobrack (NA)
: No, you don't understand how right you are though. Its such an ugly environment. This game is not supposed to be my work v2 in terms of stress.
yea its ridiculous, and once again the mods remove my message "to protect the kids" lmao
: I deserved the ban, but there are 2 things that confuse me. The quickness of it, and in the report I can only see what I wrote. It would paint the full picture if I could get the whole chat.
Riot doesn't care about the full picture. They pretend like they don't have a resources to investigate context while they're swimming in money lmao
: banned right after a game
riots discipline system is terrible and there's nothing anybody can do about it.
: riots argument for that (like 2 years ago) was that they cant keep an eye on every streamer. which is totally fine. but they use it as an excuse. if the biggest of streamers literally have a youtube channel build around videos of trolling and inting and you ignore that, youre just lazy fucks riot.
yea they can, there aren't that many. total bs
: Streamers are a big reason of why community is toxic
100% agree, and riot does nothing. They'd rather perma ban normal people so they can steal their account and make them rebuy everything they've earned. trash company.
: Because prisoners island isn't a thing in League.
AZ Frost (NA)
: I've just been trolled 20 of 22 games in a row..done
And riot pretends like toxicity jail isn't a thing lmaoooooooo
: Do you identify as a social justice warrior?
Theyre not SJWs, they're a bunch of whiny overly-sensitive ego maniacs. Similar, but different.
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rKRex

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