Comentários de Rioters
: Soloqueue vs Proplay
Time to make a separate client for pro play. That or balance around making the game fun, skilful and meaningful for the major population with pro play emerging naturally and not because of stupidly enforced patch cycles and releasing degenerate champions that are obviously going to choke out the rest of the roster in pro play.
Infernape (EUW)
: Riot doesn't care. Can't have Aatrox at Worlds.
> [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dObQYVjY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-12T12:39:38.063+0000) > > Riot doesn't care. Can't have Aatrox at Worlds. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
Comentários de Rioters
: He was a 54%ish winrate champion for around a year with the guinsoos titanic build with basically no one but hashinshin complaining about him, and hashinshin complains about every champion
> [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jlqutnk0,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2019-09-08T11:00:06.420+0000) > > He was a 54%ish winrate champion for around a year with the guinsoos titanic build with basically no one but hashinshin complaining about him, and hashinshin complains about every champion Actually not quite because the guinsoo + titanic build only really popped up a bit after conqueror showed up. He was either going the lucian build (Bork, BC & PD) or the generic bruiser build (Tri, Steraks & Titanic). He was decently good for the most part tbh, he was considered the highest win rate top laner for a very long time but because his play rate was anywhere between 1% ~ 3% at any given time, no one really batted an eye.
: While i agree with you for the most part, we also cant just not balance to pros at all, otherwise the meta would get stale in pro cause things like akali or yummi, that are hella op in pro but meh at best in mid to low elo, get buffed and its all anyone ever picks
> [{quoted}](name=BrownRiceBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jlqutnk0,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-09-08T03:42:24.613+0000) > > While i agree with you for the most part, we also cant just not balance to pros at all, otherwise the meta would get stale in pro cause things like akali or yummi, that are hella op in pro but meh at best in mid to low elo, get buffed and its all anyone ever picks I feel that's the more of a result of Riot interfering too much with the balance of the game leading to metas being more defined by champions rather than strategies. I don't think we should not balance some areas for pros but as it currently exists, the two sides are conflicting with each other and Riot will probably have to make an executive on how they want their game to be balanced. What I propose is to either make a separate client for pro play and have balance decisions made for that OR shift the focus on introducing more champions/reworks and instead focus on making individual champions be able to take on new paths. This can be problematic but I think if they took some inspiration from Hots and Dota with individual champion trait trees, you could even breathe new life in really dated kits. This is all hypothetical though, I'm really not sure what's the best approach for this game.
: I have no problem playing against Aatrox. Just counterpick him with fiora and it's gg.
> [{quoted}](name=Zealot XII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jlqutnk0,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-07T17:47:40.737+0000) > > I have no problem playing against Aatrox. Just counterpick him with fiora and it's gg. You're not wrong if you were speaking in the sense of SoloQ, because she does truly shit on him. But if we're talking about the pro scene, which team realistically would want to prioritise Fiora? Remember that this is a team game and there are much more useful champions to a coordinated team. Sure, Fiora is good into Aatrox but if that Aatrox plays safe with his team, he's going to do a lot more damage and provide much more usefulness then Fiora can ever hope to do.
: I genuinely believe they should revert the rework Oldtrox was never the problem child newtrox is, newtrox has been in nearly every patch since his release with so many things being removed from his kit to the point he shares basically nothing in common with the original champion other then name, while oldtrox was a viable toplane pick for nearly a year with basically no presence in any patch notes Their reason for reworking him was he was a "stat check" but he actually had skillshots and timing/strategy in his kit, while there are champions still in the game like yi udyr Olaf and others who can do litraly nothing except stat check So yes, imo aatrox should be reverted Oldtrox wasn't the patch notes problem newtrox is He wasn't so disparate in pro/solo as newtrox Nothing that made aatrox unique has been kept in newtrox as his kit is so problematic they couldn't afford to keep it Etc etc etc
> [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jlqutnk0,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-07T19:38:48.234+0000) > > I genuinely believe they should revert the rework > Oldtrox was never the problem child newtrox is, newtrox has been in nearly every patch since his release with so many things being removed from his kit to the point he shares basically nothing in common with the original champion other then name, while oldtrox was a viable toplane pick for nearly a year with basically no presence in any patch notes > > Their reason for reworking him was he was a "stat check" but he actually had skillshots and timing/strategy in his kit, while there are champions still in the game like yi udyr Olaf and others who can do litraly nothing except stat check > > So yes, imo aatrox should be reverted > Oldtrox wasn't the patch notes problem newtrox is > He wasn't so disparate in pro/solo as newtrox > Nothing that made aatrox unique has been kept in newtrox as his kit is so problematic they couldn't afford to keep it > Etc etc etc Every day I miss him :[
: This problem isn't exclusive to Aatrox in all honesty. The same argument could be made for Akali, Irelia, Yuumi, Galio, Sylas, most of their recent champs really. It really goes to show how out of touch their design and balance teams are.
> [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jlqutnk0,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-09-08T00:22:01.506+0000) > > This problem isn't exclusive to Aatrox in all honesty. The same argument could be made for Akali, Irelia, Yuumi, Galio, Sylas, most of their recent champs really. It really goes to show how out of touch their design and balance teams are. I don't disagree with you at all. This is especially true to newer types of champions. Champion design used to based on what's fun AND fair now it's just based on if the player is having fun dicking on their opponents through lack of counterplay. I just made this thread about Aatrox because he's the only 'OP' champion I personally play :p.
: Fuck pro play.
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jlqutnk0,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-09-07T21:04:41.249+0000) > > Fuck pro play. Preach. I hate that the 'GAME' is balanced towards Pro Play when 99.9% of players aren't pros or going pro. Pro play should be a naturally emerging scene based on popularity and love for a game and not just pushed (overwatch style) and enforced on everyone else. When a game is great to play and has healthy competition, pro play emerges by itself... so why do we have to keep doing these enforced metas and weird balance shifts to screw everyone else over? At this point it might be better to split the game so you can balance for the casual audience as well as the pro play audience.
: It might be too late to do anything else but give him number changes unfortunately...meaning aatrox has 100% (or 99.9% if you wanna be scientific) chance of staying in his current state until worlds is over....which will be in awhile. Nobody would bat an eye and scold you if you remade this thread at that point, if riot staff see it now they have an actual legitimate reason to ignore this thread up until worlds is over, and by then they can just pretend they forgot about it. So maybe repost, not telling you to take it down, just telling you to remember to bring it back up.
> [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jlqutnk0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-07T05:10:20.818+0000) > > It might be too late to do anything else but give him number changes unfortunately...meaning aatrox has 100% (or 99.9% if you wanna be scientific) chance of staying in his current state until worlds is over....which will be in awhile. > > Nobody would bat an eye and scold you if you remade this thread at that point, if riot staff see it now they have an actual legitimate reason to ignore this thread up until worlds is over, and by then they can just pretend they forgot about it. > > > So maybe repost, not telling you to take it down, just telling you to remember to bring it back up. Yeah, I might have to do that... well that is if I still have any love for the game at that point in time. Riot has taken nearly everything I loved in this game away from me and honestly, the direction it's going doesn't really suit me as a player either. I just want to have fun with my main and not worry about constant changes because of bad design decisions they've made and are too stubborn to tackle.
Comentários de Rioters
: Reflecting on old Aatrox
Our voices fall upon deaf ears. Trying to explain why our champion deserved to stay in the game is an impossible task. Misconceptions, stigma, word vomit, hive mind, lack of empathy... there's plenty of things the general community and Riot can use to justify why Aatrox was 'bad' for the game despite barely playing him/seeing him. Most turn a blind eye to the hypocrisy on the reasons why Aatrox was changed. Too toxic for the game due to lifesteal and auto-attacking? The same champion who got absolutely fucked by bramble vest, had only 1 mobility spell/hard cc spell and was a squishy champion who built primarily offensive without being a good cdr abuser? Yeah, he was obviously just a broken, brain-dead piece of shit. When you think about Tryndamere who has RNG crits to autowin lanes and an invuln ult or Yi who has untargettable abilities as well as insane sticking power/on hit abuse... I don't see how Aatrox compares to either one as a carry. As a duelist, he was often times a worse Jax because at least Jax could offload his damage insanely quick, had shorter c/ds, could abuse CDR, had 2 super strong defensive abilities (E and R) and didn't require nearly as much offensive resources as Aatrox. If we're talking today's game, new Aatrox is much more of a terror in a teamfight and hence, remains a consistent problem in pro play whereas new generation duelists like reworked Irelia literally heal for 80-100HP off 4-5 minions, have an on-demand damage reduction ability, is hyper mobile and has a better teamfight ultimate. Oh yeah, and she's hybrid between auto attacker and ability caster who can abuse trinity force procs on her Q lol. Let's not forget to mention Conqueror which has literally taken champions who had never conceived of the idea of sustain and now have it in spades. Why does Katarina have sustain? Why does Sylas have sustain? Who fucking knows, it's not like they sacrifice anything for it. Old Aatrox had to toggle between healing or doing damage, not getting both at the same time. He didn't hit his intended thematic mark? Isn't that something that should be up to the mains to decide? Why should you take someone else's champion, rework it and then cater it towards an entirely different crowd. It's literally disgusting. But just because it only happened to us and not a more popular player base it's accepted. The fucking hypocrites. I'd love for Ahri to be reworked into a tanky support or Lux to be reworked into a bruiser. I'm sure that'd sit well for all these normie goons. Lux is pretty binary don't you think? All she does is throw boring skill shots and doesn't do anything remotely unique or interesting am I right? That definitely warrants a complete rework right? Of course not. I don't give a rat's ass if he didn't fit his theme for all you outsiders, WE, THE DEDICATED AATROX PLAYERS TOOK PRIDE IN PLAYING HIM, BORING TO YOU OR NOT. Why the fuck does any of your opinions matter when most of you guys didn't try him or tried him once, threw him in the trash, memed about him being the worst champion in the game, flamed aatrox players for picking aatrox and only after how many years of being mediocre/bad when he finally picked up traction and we developed a new OP build for him, did you guys all come out to complain about how 'broken he was'. lol stfu.
: > [{quoted}](name=14daysuspensionk,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Xn7O9kwe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T08:00:38.739+0000) > > Ok then, how would you feel if a champion that was special to you got butchered or had part of their core kit removed? Aurelion is a special champion to me and he was changed for the better. Also, almost every rework has breathed new life into champions. I literally can’t sympathize with champion mains/one tricks. Go play a MMO if you want to play one character
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Xn7O9kwe,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-30T08:43:59.962+0000) > > Aurelion is a special champion to me and he was changed for the better. > > Also, almost every rework has breathed new life into champions. I literally can’t sympathize with champion mains/one tricks. Go play a MMO if you want to play one character bReATheD nEW LIfE iNtO cHaMPioNS!1!1!! gO plAy a mMo! Guess what dumbass? First and foremost, League of Legends is a VIDEO GAME. If you're not having fun playing this game then wtf are you even doing here. Secondly, RIOT GAMES SUPPORTS THE ACT OF 'MAINING' CHAMPIONS. The mastery system exists for a reason, ETERNALS IS COMING OUT FOR A REASON. If Riot Games didn't want their game to house multiple champion communities and fanbases then they should have adopted the Dota approach by having all champions unlocked from the start and enabling players to test champions out beforehand. Finally, the only place where ASOL would be considered a problem and may potentially need changes would be for high elo/pro play. Every other elo is irrelevant because ASOL is a very niche champion that most players just simply don't play. Why ruin a champion for the small few who actually put in their time and dedication to learning that champion just to cater towards normies like you. There's 140+ champions in the game, if ASOL in his current state doesn't sit well with you, it's cool, find a different champion. You don't have to like every fucking champion.
: I don't think it failed, current trox has a significantly larger playerbase, has more levers of balance, and is probably healthier to deal with when fed in comparison to old aatrox. They probably need to change his ult and I think he'd be perfectly fine.
> [{quoted}](name=SpongebobIsLife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orobgNQT,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-08-20T14:39:53.447+0000) > > I don't think it failed, current trox has a significantly larger playerbase, has more levers of balance, and is probably healthier to deal with when fed in comparison to old aatrox. They probably need to change his ult and I think he'd be perfectly fine. Mate... have you not noticed that despite whatever they do, he's still pick or ban by the pros? The biggest problem with his kit is also the reason they can't do anything about it unless the completely rework it. It's his god damn Q. Look over every patch since his release and look at how every single ability has been significantly changed except for his Q. It's received a few knocks and nudges and every single time, that affects him dramatically. They can only beat around the bush, like what they're doing now with the -60hp lvl 1 nerf. It might make him weaker lvl 1 but it literally doesn't change how he will function. He's gonna be the same shit as always, he doesn't all in lvl 1 anyways.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: Call the rework a failure when his play rate went from probably something around 1.5% or even less to 20% plus. The rework thematic and everything is fantastic. People defending the old abnoxious Aatrox wich consisted of a Drain Tank AA based champion are incredibly hilarious, because those are the same that also complain about other atrocities such as tryndamere or jax that are similar to old Aatrox: You either had stats to kill him with your autos or you didn't. The factor "outplay" never existed. Other interesting fact is that no one cared about Aatrox, and after the rework suddently everyone cares and mains him, fantastic.
> [{quoted}](name=iDarkWind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orobgNQT,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-08-21T01:13:17.115+0000) > > Call the rework a failure when his play rate went from probably something around 1.5% or even less to 20% plus. > The rework thematic and everything is fantastic. People defending the old abnoxious Aatrox wich consisted of a Drain Tank AA based champion are incredibly hilarious, because those are the same that also complain about other atrocities such as tryndamere or jax that are similar to old Aatrox: You either had stats to kill him with your autos or you didn't. The factor "outplay" never existed. > > Other interesting fact is that no one cared about Aatrox, and after the rework suddently everyone cares and mains him, fantastic. "After the rework suddently everyone cares and mains him, fantastic." It succeeded in doing that. Destroying a fan-base in hopes of bringing the mass population of normie players. I like how you're going off about drain tanks and have to put 'AA' in there like it changes anything. If you don't have stats to beat the current Aatrox, heck any champion, you're most likely not going to beat them. Haven't you seen the amount of complaints about people wanting the current Aatrox nerfed because he heals too much? Whether or not he's doing from auto attacks or abilities literally doesn't matter lmfao. Btw if you're going to make the reference that old Aatrox is akin to Tryndamer and Jax because they auto attack, then I guess it's a fair comparison to make that Aatrox is akin to Akali right? Because they both use abilities and are obnoxious if the players are good. Do you feel 'outplayed' when you literally can't do anything to fight back against a champion because 'they played it right' aka 'have abilities that deny you any way of counterplay'?
: \>Unironically thinking because a champion needs a lot of balance fixes the champion is somehow fundamentally broken, rather than it just being unexpected high tier strength and Riot working towards making them better. \> Also unironically thinking old Aatrox was somehow healthier than new Aatrox.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orobgNQT,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2019-08-21T00:07:49.218+0000) > > \>Unironically thinking because a champion needs a lot of balance fixes the champion is somehow fundamentally broken, rather than it just being unexpected high tier strength and Riot working towards making them better. > > \> Also unironically thinking old Aatrox was somehow healthier than new Aatrox. Unironically thinking a champion that is consistently pick or ban at the pro level, which has received multiple changes and a minirework already, AND is still in need of balance patches being anything other than a balance nightmare. If you're comparing old aatrox (post-rickless) to the current aatrox one, what exactly does the old one do better than the new one that would make him toxic to play against? As far as I can recall, old Aatrox was just simply better at auto attacking and that's it. He's less mobile than the current version, has less cc, has less chase potential, has less stickiness, has less base stats, has weaker synergy with cdr and potentially worse in fight sustain. So what exactly was it about the old Aatrox that made him so hard to balance hmm? The current Aatrox is not only safer than the old one because he can invalidate multiple champions through his range and his disengage combo, but he also has the added benefit in being able to build full cdr which is not only efficient it's also more fool-proof than building lifesteal/adc items. He's literally been streamlined to be an 'esports champion'. Heck, even his in built sustain has less restrictions than old Aatrox. Old Aatrox healed off every third hit AND ONLY if you set it to thirst, new Aatrox literally heals off ALL (non periodic) DAMAGE DEALT. If you hate auto attacks so much, how do you feel about the current Irelia? Because she does everything old Aatrox does but better. Her passive is easier to proc, she applies conqueror faster, she synergies with cdr as well as attack speed, she has an actual damage mitigation ability, she has better teamfight potential, she heals more on minions/has better wave clear and she has better dueling/all in potential... Oh yeah and guess what... the unholy trifecta of Aatrox, Akali and Irelia have long been known to be catered towards the pros. "Unexpected high tier strength" lmfao... wtf does that even mean... Riot knew exactly what they were doing with these champions. Making busted champions for pro play.
Jaspers (EUW)
: Just add it as another patch on the list. New Aatrox has had 14 patches since his relaunch a year ago, this includes 3 hotfixes. Old Aatrox had 17 in his lifetime (1 hotfix) and this includes the 7.22 buffs to all AD champs after rune changes. Sadly, new Aatrox is a success, he's popular and will sell skins. They'll keep changing him and nerfing him but not change his new style of play. We just need to wait for them to release a new champ who plays like old Aatrox just without the healing (if the healing truely was an issue and it's obviously wasn't looking at the new one and 4 or 5 other healing attack speed melee champs).
MLDzXnRRR (EUNE)
: I often see Xin JUNGLE 1v9 the game, so you are underrating him in your post. Manaless (Aatrox fits this) and overpowered or unfun designs (noone would like to play against a Darius one-trick, because you know what happens, right?, so the only smart choice is to pick a ranged champ that can beat not only Darius, but also the non-broken melee champions) have made such champions like Xin not being able to function at all toplane. Old Aatrox was feeling like garbage all these years - you were more squishy than ranged DPS, because you had comparable stats to them + losing % of your health pool for using abilities... And his Q animation was clunky (new Aatrox is also not very flowing).
> [{quoted}](name=MLDzXnRRR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orobgNQT,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-20T09:55:15.187+0000) > > I often see Xin JUNGLE 1v9 the game, so you are underrating him in your post. > Manaless (Aatrox fits this) and overpowered or unfun designs (noone would like to play against a Darius one-trick, because you know what happens, right?, so the only smart choice is to pick a ranged champ that can beat not only Darius, but also the non-broken melee champions) have made such champions like Xin not being able to function at all toplane. > > Old Aatrox was feeling like garbage all these years - you were more squishy than ranged DPS, because you had comparable stats to them + losing % of your health pool for using abilities... And his Q animation was clunky (new Aatrox is also not very flowing). And this here is the crux of the issue. Riot has warped how the game has been balanced so that either you're champion is designed for a role and can do it well OR is simply outclassed/unable to even function at all in its off-lanes. I remember when Xin Zhao top COULD work but now it's just flat out inting. On the topic of Old Aatrox, you're not wrong that OGTROX was left in a terrible spot for a really long time. If they got to him sooner he would have been in a much better place but honestly, he was still very playable despite receiving little change due to the nature of the game being slower and there being less access to damage/cdr. When CDR started to creep and rickless mini reworked Aatrox, he was in a much more favourable position even though his play-style was kind of shifted from high risk melee carry to medium risk melee fighter. Either way, you'd have seen much less complaints about old Aatrox because he was a gem of the old style of balance. Simpler/more binary kits are much easier to balance than whatever the fuck we have now.
: He's not even that strong anymore because he falls off lategame once the enemy has their core items and Grievous Wounds. As tanky as Aatrox can be, he can't survive all the damage that he absorbs from at least 3-4 people at that point in the game.
but pro play... therefore he must receive more nerfs smh.
Antenora (EUW)
: Aatrox is getting nerfed due to pro play.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orobgNQT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-20T08:58:45.786+0000) > > Aatrox is getting nerfed due to pro play. And I don't think that will ever change as long as he's this Aatrox :/
: Are you aware that rework WASN'T FOR YOU? It's making few thousands of mains around the world sad, while opening champ for hundreds of thousands. Sorry to say it, but no one really cares, especially not Riot. Now to how weak in soloQ Aatrox is bcs of proplay. Let's look at Aatroxs wr/games played in dia+ and compare it to imo "the most op" toplaners Riven/Rene/Jax/Cammile/Kled. first game/30 games/50 games/70 games Riven - 45%, 48%, 53%, 58% Rene - 49%, 52%, 52%, 54% Jax - 50%, 53%, 55%, 58% Cammile - 48%, 54%, 54%, 54% Kled - 50%, 57%, 59%, 59% Aatrox - 47%, 53%, 55%, 56% Given the fact that he has 4% more pr than Rene, almost two times bigger pr than Riven, Cam, Jax and almost 4 times more than Kled, I would say that he isn't weak at all. Dia+ is too high? Let's take gold(idk what is "The most op" champ there, but let's take Jax, Garen, Nasus, Darius) Jax - 50%, 54%, 55%, 56% Garen - 52%, 56%, 56%, 56% Nasus - 52%, 55%, 56%, 56% Darius - 48%, 53%, 54%, 54% Aatrox - 46%, 52%, 54%, 54% Aatrox is strong toplaner and really solid midlaner, period.
You're right the rework wasn't meant for us, but it should have been seeing as how we stuck with that champion the longest and played him even when he was bad only for meta abusers to come along and claim him as theirs :) Also if you bothered to read, I never called him weak wtf? I'm calling him a balance problem BECAUSE he's still getting nerfs at low winrates. FYI I have a 69-70% winrate on this champion lol.
Comentários de Rioters
: I have to agree the new j4/Xin is amazing, and not the classic amazing for Riot's standard. Not only it focused on the characters and made them feel alive not frozen in the time but also it did amazing worldbuilding and even left hints for the future of the Demacia story. Perfection, literal perfection. As much as a try to like new Panth I simply can't push the big plot holes aside and just go with it as nothing happened. It would have been a 10/10 for me if the Darkin and the power thing were handled differently, and more logically.
> [{quoted}](name=Camille Ferrøs,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=X9QKQHvM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-15T14:40:39.393+0000) > > I have to agree the new j4/Xin is amazing, and not the classic amazing for Riot's standard. Not only it focused on the characters and made them feel alive not frozen in the time but also it did amazing worldbuilding and even left hints for the future of the Demacia story. Perfection, literal perfection. > As much as a try to like new Panth I simply can't push the big plot holes aside and just go with it as nothing happened. It would have been a 10/10 for me if the Darkin and the power thing were handled differently, and more logically. Exactly. The characters in the Xin Zhao short story had personality, they had real motivations AND THEY JUST FELT 'REAL'. In the Pantheon Biography which basically retcons the newly established Aatrox, everything just felt like a plot device. Why did Pylas exist? So he would motivate Atreus to climb the mountain. Why did Pantheon exist? To lose and make Aatrox feel like an opposing force. Why did the barbarians exists? To act as fodder and give Atreus an excuse for a power up. Why did Aatrox exist? To lose and make Atreus seem strong. We didn't even learn much about 'Pantheon' except surface level stuff. I don't even know why he's even called 'Pantheon' anymore, it literally just contradicts what he was about with the whole 'gods abuse power and therefore i am a mortal' thing. How many times does it emphasise on the fact that he is a 'man'. The short story did really well for the source material it was given but god damn, that bio was straight garbage.
Comentários de Rioters
Snowbrand (EUW)
: Why can't riot just nerf Aatroxs numbers, instead of his mechanics?
This is actually hilarious, you are the fools who WANTED this Aatrox. Remember the old Aatrox, the one that was 'toxic and statcheck'? Yeah guess what? Simple kits are inherently easier to balance with just numbers. He was shit for the majority of his lifespan because Riot nerfed him super hard upon release and left him like that. Once he got his mini-rework where they removed a massive proportion of his lifesteal mechanic and made him more of a bruiser that could function in the meta at the time, he was fine. It was only until Conq + Rageblade showed up which broke his on hit mechanic. The new Aatrox's issues lie exactly in his mechanics. His main source of damage is tied to a heavily telegraphed, slow and rightfully, hard hitting ability. If you nerf the numbers, he can't kill anyone and now has an unforgiving main damage ability, resulting in him being completely useless. Have you not noticed how everything resolves around his Q? W is to set up his Q, E is to set up his Q, R is to enhance his Q. If he doesn't land Q, he doesn't heal for shit outside of passive which as you should also know, lowers its c/d based on hitting his Q. The only number nerfs you could do to the new Aatrox would be superficial nerfs, if he doesn't have the numbers to kill then he's shit out of luck because he only has his Q combo to do any real significant damage. If you nerf his healing, then his whole mini-rework and removal of revive would have been for nought. Take it or leave it, the new Aatrox is harder to balance than the old one and you guys wanted that.
: Shouldn't Pantheon be severed in half? Like look at the gigantic size of Aatrox and his fucking Sword. Now mix that together with the strenght of an Ascendend/Darkin and ye...how does one only get such a small cut? I have bigger cuts than that, Pantheon should have been sliced in half. Also, Aatrox could easily reforge his Arm out of the people around him, hell he already forged his entire body himself.
> [{quoted}](name=SuicidePlank,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=mOTwBOQO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-31T14:57:32.181+0000) > > Shouldn't Pantheon be severed in half? Like look at the gigantic size of Aatrox and his fucking Sword. > Now mix that together with the strenght of an Ascendend/Darkin and ye...how does one only get such a small cut? > I have bigger cuts than that, Pantheon should have been sliced in half. > > Also, Aatrox could easily reforge his Arm out of the people around him, hell he could forge his entire body himself. Because plot lol.
Comentários de Rioters
Kazekiba (NA)
: Symptom of Riot trying to make everyone SUPER COOL ANIME PROTAG MARY SUE MAIN CHARACTER while also having them interact with each other, and making Aatrox just a really generic and bad character to begin with. Given that their idea for a Jinx color story consisted of taking her Mafia skin and having her spout actual, ver batim in-game quotes, I would absolutely not bother with anything lore-related Riot puts out. You're setting yourself up for disappointment
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=QVppAaJX,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-30T02:22:23.189+0000) > > Symptom of Riot trying to make everyone SUPER COOL ANIME PROTAG MARY SUE MAIN CHARACTER while also having them interact with each other, and making Aatrox just a really generic and bad character to begin with. > > Given that their idea for a Jinx color story consisted of taking her Mafia skin and having her spout actual, ver batim in-game quotes, I would absolutely not bother with anything lore-related Riot puts out. You're setting yourself up for disappointment Yeah I realise. I'm more baffled by how easy the community eats this shit up though, they will literally accept terrible writing without a problem and call it 'EPIC!!' Man, I'm with Aatrox here, it's time to sink this dumpster pile.
: Correct he hates the aspects which are the divine like pantheon, the mortal pantheon took over was not worth Aatrox's time or effort and given how much energy he wasted slaying a true aspect and wiping out its constellation he was just too tired to waste the energy to vaporize a MERE MORTAL. take off your rose tinted glasses my friend.
> [{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=QVppAaJX,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-30T02:24:12.328+0000) > > Correct he hates the aspects which are the divine like pantheon, the mortal pantheon took over was not worth Aatrox's time or effort and given how much energy he wasted slaying a true aspect and wiping out its constellation he was just too tired to waste the energy to vaporize a MERE MORTAL. take off your rose tinted glasses my friend. LMFAO, ME TAKE OFF MINE? WHY DON'T YOU TAKE OFF YOURS. AATROX HATES EVERYONE, HE HATES THE ENTIRE WORLD, BUT HE HATES ASPECTS THE MOST AND HE HATES HUMANS FOR TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ASPECT MAGIC TO IMPRISON HIM. I CAN'T EVEN... YOU REALLY CAN'T SEE THIS?
: ??? where is it stated that Atreus was not split nearly in half? he killed the god of war what use would he have with a corpse? i imagine that the dying energies of a god are incredibly powerful and aatrox just expected them to vanish because thats what generally happens and he would know as a former god, it just happened to be that Aetreus soul was powerful enough to reign in the energy and absorb it allowing his mortal form to be reforged though with some damage from the fight remaining as scars.
Because Aatrox fucking despises his fate, he hates all aspects to the core and he wants the world to burn. Atreus was mortally wounded and still managed to spit on Aatrox? The Aatrox from the lore that exists with him, would surely turn Atreus into nothing but a speck of dust. The current Aatrox isn't an honorable warrior, he doesn't care, he wants everyone to die, why the fuck would he just leave after a mere mortal and ESPECIALLY the host of an aspect spat on his face? It makes no sense. You guys eat this crap up but it's poor writing. Aatrox lost in the 2nd battle due to an anime friendship power up, Atreus had no business winning that 'but with sheer willpower and the cries of the people around him, he somehow severed Aatrox's arm and won!!!11!'. This was terrible.
Comentários de Rioters
Comentários de Rioters
Tomosima (EUNE)
: Give Aatrox his double E back
Hell no, they literally just rebalanced him so he wouldn't be a one trick pony hence why he's more of a drain tank than a 1 shot assassin with good cc now.
SEKAI (OCE)
: I mostly gave up touching norms save for occasional doses because each game is either solo team matching against premade teams for free loss or free wins depending on whichever team you end up in, or premade team stacking against another premade which you have 0 influence in as a solo player (same goes for the previous on the list), all while being constantly bombarded by an unparalleled level of bm and spiteful trashtalking which is amplified by the fact you're constantly dealing with high number premades. I mean Ranked is dogshit, but at least I know duo is as high as it gets on the ally and opponent team so it will never get as bad as the shit in norms, and at least I have the illusion of having some impact instead of being the cannon fodder and dregs of the matchmaking being constantly trashed around with no care and no control.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yp1TeEYj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-17T12:18:26.075+0000) > > I mostly gave up touching norms save for occasional doses because each game is either solo team matching against premade teams for free loss or free wins depending on whichever team you end up in, or premade team stacking against another premade which you have 0 influence in as a solo player (same goes for the previous on the list), all while being constantly bombarded by an unparalleled level of bm and spiteful trashtalking which is amplified by the fact you're constantly dealing with high number premades. > > I mean Ranked is dogshit, but at least I know duo is as high as it gets on the ally and opponent team so it will never get as bad as the shit in norms, and at least I have the illusion of having some impact instead of being the cannon fodder and dregs of the matchmaking being constantly trashed around with no care and no control. My ranked experience has been quite pleasant and I know it's weird to say but I get really cooperative and focused teammates. I love that feeling when you don't have to type to know that your team is on the same wavelength. In normals though, it's absolutely how you described it. It's literally a cesspool of the worst types of players and I don't mean in just skill, I mean in attitude in general. It actually disgusts how people behave in normal games.
: ha, inb4 you get labelled toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yp1TeEYj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-17T12:17:39.103+0000) > > ha, inb4 you get labelled toxic. I don't really like to type unless it's in the form of a compliment or praise for my team as I usually communicate with pings but man, If I told you my sanity and mental has been the same after meeting these players I'd be lying. I'm going to explode one of these days I can feel it.
Comentários de Rioters
Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Abandon,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LtcQ4VEz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-10T02:34:49.290+0000) > > Well I can understand why they did it, you still have plenty of people even now complaining about its removal. Imagine back then if they released the reworked Aatrox without even a semblance of his former self, yeah that'd piss people off. Hell, we've GOT an "updated" version of the old Aatrox. We have ever since a certain champion was given an updated version of Aatrox's old E... The thing is, the champion isn't played at top. He's played in the jungle, where having a decent heal every 3 hits is fair. Old Aatrox couldn't be fair because his 3rd hit passive was a toggle. So it had to be stronger in both aspects than the other guy's... and that meant making every other ability weaker. Which is why old Aatrox was outclassed by every other AA-based fighter, except when he was totally overpowered. That's just the nature of his kit. Any buff at all would tip him over the scale. That's why we saw him absolutely DOMINATE both pros and games across the board when he got Conqueror on top of the removal of his W's health cost. Xin Zhao _is_ what an updated version of Aatrox's old kit would have looked like. I've gone into detail on the similarities before, and I break it down most here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PsNsWrkE-heres-a-radical-suggestion-why-not-swap-the-entire-kits-of-xin-zhao-and-aatrox You can see that it's not just surface-level. The abilities weren't just similar, they were nearly identical save for the trappings that made old Aatrox impossible to balance. Similar cooldowns, damage, and functionality. Which is exactly why they couldn't update Aatrox's old kit. The best way to change his core mechanic, his W, would have been to make it his passive, identical to Xin Zhao's passive. **** I just noticed you actually already commented on that thread. lol. But yeah, the point still stands.
:sweat_smile: p-please... no more... no more mentioning xin zhao... PLEASE.
: Honestly the revive should never have been kept from his old kit in the first place. It's just not reasonable on a self-healing champion, and never was. Imagine if Anivia healed for 40% damage dealt. If they do keep this, it'll be good. Especially for newcomers to Aatrox. They won't even be attempting to use his ultimate wrong.
Well I can understand why they did it, you still have plenty of people even now complaining about its removal. Imagine back then if they released the reworked Aatrox without even a semblance of his former self, yeah that'd piss people off.
: does anyone have a link to where the newest PBE changes are listed? they don't seem to be on the wiki yet
> [{quoted}](name=thefatlazycat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LtcQ4VEz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-10T02:24:37.239+0000) > > does anyone have a link to where the newest PBE changes are listed? they don't seem to be on the wiki yet Let me put it in my original post, sorry.
Comentários de Rioters
icidas24 (EUNE)
: {{champion:39}} hehe. I am Irelia Main :)
Mate... you necro'd an 8th month post...
: {{champion:36}} isn't a stat check because you can dodge his Q and kite him
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bm1FN65B,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-06-12T14:24:24.870+0000) > > {{champion:36}} isn't a stat check because you can dodge his Q and kite him I was going to put this example as well, but it seems like people have already made up their minds on this issue lmfao. I'm not even surprised about this response, everyone's having fun on mordekaiser when you can lock someone down and sit on them until they die because they can't breach past your insane armor, hp and shield.
: He's a juggernaut? Like, he does the same thing Darius does. Does his passive probably need a nerf? Maybe.
Ahhh, so it's selective stat checkers that we need to look out for, gotcha ;)
Comentários de Rioters
: In seasons 1-5 if you got countered you could play around it. Just. In seasons 6-9 if you get countered you may as well afk under tower and get 1/10 minion farm. Aatrox hard counters Garen. You can have more health. Armour and one combo will chunk you for 80%. Lol isn't a game of skill anymore it's a stat check joke. To answer your question dodge. Everytime. Even the world's best Garens don't beat Aatrox. They just climb high enough that junglers know counters and gank early before they're fed. Riste just sits under his tower Vs Aatrox and in low elo that's a death penalty because junglers are r%%%%%ed. In high elo........it's time to gank and get fed because Aatrox has a choice....push and feed.....or let Garen farm up and risk losing as he scales. In low elo Aatrox can just push and not have to worry because junglers are dumb. So....yeah....dodge. How do you think half these high elo people get high? They premade or dodge. Once you get high enough it's rarer to get useless junglers. Same reason LCS players don't go ham. One overextend gets exploited. And yet in low elo you play safe the MMR system doesn't consider you a carry so punishes you with worse team mates. Shitty system all round. In a more balanced system id say sit under tower farm and wait for a gank. But that won't happen in your elo. Trust me. Sorry for you. The more you play Garen into Aatrox the more your MMR will suffer. .... Thanks Meddler.
I'm an Aatrox player. I think you summed it up quite welll but I want to emphasise on the concept of 'stat check' because that's exactly how you win this match up. If Garen stays even and gets enough stats, he wins. If Garen gets ahead, Aatrox will do 0 damage to him. If I were a Garen player, I'd probably want to skip this match up too tbh. You're not gonna learn anything important and it's honestly quite boring matchup if both sides knows what they're doing (it becomes farm simulator). If you don't mind playing from behind most of the game and then outscaling say... 20 minutes in, then sure go for it. In these types of match ups you want him to push you in, just try to take the least amount of damage, using you Q or W to avoid his damage/cc (his pull ability) and then eventually he does no damage to you while you can shred him though it will take awhile and he might try to snowball elsewhere.
: Depends. The last thing I want is being bowled over by Riven or Jax.
Right now he destroys both of those champions pretty handily so I think opening him up to all ins early game is pretty fair. You have to take into account the current version has a much better sustain mechanic, much better poke mechanic with the q timer reset, a stronger W early game and a super efficient build path. Also, like I said he's probably not going to be in melee auto attack range of those guys as often as they'd like to abuse the lower armor anyways so it's more like, WHEN they can get on top of him they are rewarded for it a little bit more.
: I honestly could care less if he loses the all sources amp and it only affects his. The base armor nerf hits harder than necessary.
Well considering he was a monster with just 2 dashes despite his previous shitty base/scaling hp and armor stats and that he got buffed in both areas at the same time... I think it's a fair way to go. The way he plays kind of negates some of that armour loss into melee match ups, into ranged match ups you have a case though. Also... it doesn't have to be as drastic as the OP suggested. What if his lvl 1 base armor was 34/35 with slightly better scaling, would you be okay with that?
: Alright, so lower his base armor to Riven's, who is a fighter. Right, you asking for him to be bowled over 24/7? He needs that base armor, get over it. Hes a juggernaut for pete's sake.
I think these are very reasonable nerfs because they don't change the core of his new kit and targets some of his unnecessary power. Unless you're playing like an absolute degenerate because you're facing every match up in auto attack range, I think it would be fine for him to lose a bit of his early armor so that other champions can actually contend with him. I also don't think he should be amplifying all sources of healing because quite honestly, it's ridiculous. You seriously can't defend this champion in his current state. He is too well rounded, can be flexed across three different roles AND STILL DO FINE and doesn't really have any losing match ups. In top lane, he beats like 90% of the roster if you have a brain. The only 'hard' match ups barely knick a 48% winrate. I really like this version of Aatrox but there's no doubt he's overtuned at the moment
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