: Why do people keep trying to jungle without smite?
Honestly, this is one particular instance of braindead idiocy I _don't_ actually ever see at all any more. You must have really poor luck with teammates.
: tank support state
Support items are so shit now that maybe the smartest idea would just be to fuck it and start with a Doran's Shield? Maybe go pick up a Relic Shield or Steel Shoulderguards on your first back (from passive gold alone) like an ADC picking up a Cull, now that it has absolutely no actual combat utility (30 HP and 3AD/5AP doesn't even count)? Just a random suggestion.
TK576 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Arcane Azmadi,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TqfEB5hI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-20T00:25:51.496+0000) > > Look on the bright side, poke supports are getting fucked as well by the removal of the MP5 and on-hit damage on the Spellthief/Sickle line. So it's just going to be an all-ADC party again I guess. MP5? 9mm? What?
iiGazeii (NA)
: In terms of gold efficiency, 25 AP is worth ~544 gold. The mana regen, CDR, and HP together are worth 646 gold. So a net loss of a little more than 100 gold in stats. Still, chalk that up under the saved gold from not needing to upgrade, and you'll still have a lot more gold to play with. The extra gold per 10 makes up for the lost stats 17 minutes after the first upgrade. The idea with these changes is to take a power out of the support's early game, and put it into their midgame. They don't have the extra sustain/damage provided by Spoils of Ward/Tribute, and their mana regen is lower, but they'll get to their "real" first item a lot faster. What is effectively an extra 1300 gold in the early game means you will be completing the item you really want in half the time. Between the gold you save, the free gold you earn, and the final upgrade, you get what is about half a fully-built item plus almost enough gold to buy another fully-built support item without needing to get any kills/assists or take any CS. Your early game will require better resource management, but you can roll into the midgame with two items under your belt virtually guaranteed. That's a huge boost in your impact on a match.
You're assuming all stats are created equal. Maybe that's their actual GOLD value, but as far as actual UTILITY value goes, 10% CDR and 50% mana regen is worth far, _far_ more to a support than a mere 25 AP would ever be. Just to take a random example, for Sona that 25 AP is an extra 5 damage on her Power Chord, 12 damage on her Q, 6 HP on her W heal and 8 on her shield, slightly less than 1% MS on her E and 12 damage on her ult. Woo, push _that_ motherfucking boat out, especially considering she now can't _cast_ her abilities since she was already having mana problems in lane even _with_ the 50% mana regen on the old item, meaning she can't even comfortably proc Tribute to transform the fucking thing in the first place! You are seriously underestimating how big a loss 50% mana regen and 10% CDR is to a lot of supports while massively overrating a bit of AP (a stat supports have never really used much anyway unless they're being very indulgent). Unfortunately I'm still just theorycrafting here, because when I tried to actually _play_ the game and try out my usual supports to see who is right and who is wrong, I discovered the patch completely broke the fucking game for me and I can't play any more (I even did a full uninstall/reinstall but it's still fucking broken). So I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
: Riot ruining Support once again
Hey, you think you have it bad? I get hit _twice._ I'm not only a support main (and you're right, these changes are really shit), I'm also a jungler, specialising in tanky initiators (i.e support junglers). I like to gank a lot to help my team and don't spend as much time farming as I should because someone somewhere always needs my help. And now Riot are nerfing the SHIT out of ganking junglers and issuing a stern mandate "Farm more, bitches!" Camps are respawning faster but giving less exp and gold, so you need to spend less time in lanes trying to contribute to your team and more time in the jungle whacking creeps. Between the support nerfs and the jungler nerfs, I'm not going to enjoy LoL much this preseason...
: Where's my support item as a melee tank support?
Look on the bright side, poke supports are getting fucked as well by the removal of the MP5 and on-hit damage on the Spellthief/Sickle line. So it's just going to be an all-ADC party again I guess.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Shard of True Ice has nearly double the AP of Remnant of the Watchers.
So it does, I read that backwards, since everything ELSE is just straight nerfed. But what of it? 25 AP isn't worth the loss of 50 HP, 50% mana regen, 10% CDR and 18 on-hit damage on Remnant of the Watchers, that's going to have to be made up with items bought with gold taken out of your "savings". Incidentally, I never bought Remnant/Eye of the Watchers anyway- Eye of Frost was just more cost-efficient (Remnant/Eye only gave some extra HP and an extra ward), so I'm only "saving" 400g rather than 1400. OK, the straight upgrade for free is technically an advantage, but Shard is hardly a "completed item" and the loss of the CDR and MP5 _really_ bites hard. I'm can't help the feeling I'm going to be spending a lot of this "saved" gold on Tears (ironically enough). I mean let's look at the new items in total: you save 1400g in upgrade costs (or 400g if, as I mentioned, you never upgraded to Remnant/Eye of the Watchers anyway) and you get to earn 1000g from the item before Tribute shuts down. Then after that 2400g (or 1400g) in profit you're coasting on the +3gp10 and whatever stray CS you can scrounge up without the rest of your team biting your head off over it for the rest of the game. That's about enough for an Ardent Censer, a Vision Ward, and a pack of gum.
iiGazeii (NA)
: That 1400 gold is about 64 procs of the tribute/spoils of war passive. That's over ten minutes of constant proccing after you've already earned the 1000 gold for your income to be less. Further, you get to appreciate the gold savings early on, starting progress on your first "real" item immediately. Combine that with the fact that the new support items give better stats, and you really have to work hard for there to be a difference in value. It would only matter past the 20 minute mark, and that's only if the extra stats you get from better items and more gold don't net you more kills/assists than you wouldn't have gotten with the old support items.
Actually, the new support items give considerably _worse_ stats. The new Spellthief, for example, no longer gives any mana regen, and has nerfed AP in exchange for a truly pathetic pittance of HP. This continues down the line, with the Frostfang and Shard of True Ice similarly having reduced AP and no mana regen, as well as no longer giving any CDR. And keep in mind this is _on top_ of Tribute no longer doing any damage and you losing the active gold generation once you've completed it. So basically most offensive supports are going to be completely neutered in lane by the increased mana problems and reduced damage potential. On the defensive side (Relic Shield et al) you get much less health, again no CDR or HP regen, and you can't heal in lane with Spoils of War, in exchange for a pittance of AP/AD, so you're much, MUCH more vulnerable to poke from the enemy ADC (not the enemy support, of course, because they're as stuffed as you are). And contrary to what meowwow7 said, we're not going to be back to season 2 income once that happens, because at least in season 2 we still had Philosopher's Stone and Heart of Gold. What are support players supposed to do for income once their support items shuts down and you only have a pitiful +3g/10 to rely on? _Farm?_ Yeah, prepare to get used to your ADC and solo laners raging at you for "taking my farm". Honestly, I think the best bet would be for a support to buy _both_ their offensive and defensive support item option, but I'm quite sure Riot have coded them to only allow you to buy one. This is gonna be a terrible preseason for supports.
Comentários de Rioters
iLLp (NA)
: kassadin was worse back in his prime
I'm quite sure he wasn't. No matter how OP he was, I'm pretty sure he wasn't 99% banned and picked only once. But even if he was, how does that excuse Pantheon? That was way back in the old days of LoL: currently Kassadin isn't even _playable_ on the pro level. Same with the Juggernaut fiasco in 2015: not only was that 4 years ago, but that was also criticised as one of the worst Worlds series ever as a result. This is Riot's 10th Anniversary and they're _still_ making balance blunders like Pantheon, despite moving to the system of locking in the Worlds patch several patches ahead of live to provide a supposedly stable and balanced one to play on.
: @Riot You should've just disabled Pantheon.
[That's what I said.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/t3WZ8VE4-riots-biggest-blunder-of-world-2019)
: Riot's biggest blunder of World 2019.
FINAL RESULT: And exactly as predicted, in all 3 of the Grand Final games the red side team automatically HAD to first ban Pantheon instantly without even contemplating an alternative- giving Pantheon an unmatched 100% pick/ban ratio in this Worlds, and with only ONE pick (and despite what some people have said in this thread, NO champ has ever been THIS conclusively banned in Worlds before, EVER). This meant that in 2 of their 3 losses G2 only got 4 bans, on top of the automatic disadvantage of FPX getting to pick first. I'm not saying the result might have been different if they hadn't had to forfeit a ban to Pantheon, but if they had been able to, say, ban out Tian's Lee Sin they MIGHT have been able to put up a better fight.
AdamrCc (EUW)
: The Pantheon rework may just become a historical moment due to this.
Yeah, I personally predict that one day theScore esports will do one of their gaming history videos on Worlds 2019 Pantheon.
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Th3Outsider (EUNE)
: Kda evelynn
You can get prestige skins from chests...?
Comentários de Rioters
STEG0 (NA)
: I don't know how you do it, I main Lux support and just seeing Lux will about 1/4 of the time tilt the ADC to throw the entire game in a supernova of question mark pings, all chat spam to report me and lectures on how she isn't a support. If Lux is banned I play MF support and that's like an 80% to do the same.
Lux support is valid (although annoying and I personally don't like it because she doesn't bring anything truly unique that another champion doesn't do better), but MF support dominated Worlds a few years ago, so anyone who tries to tell you "she isn't a support" should just shut their mouths and go back to feeding like the noobs they are. Although she was mainly used as a direct hard counter to Zyra support and doesn't fit every situation.
solopolo3 (EUW)
: I mean, anivia support's been a thing for years now. You can play literally anything in support and if you're good enough it'll work. You don't _need_ a specific champion to play the role well. I've done talon, irelia, lee sin, akali, zed support. Shit, my favorite support to play with as adc isn't even a real support, it's nautilus.
Um... Nautilus has mostly been a support pick ever since shortly after his release, when people decided he just didn't work as a jungler.
Comentários de Rioters
: Please, Invictus Gaming, give one of the worlds skins to Camille!
It's absolutely guaranteed that IG Camille will be the jungler skin. Of the others I can't say for sure, but I'm betting on IG Kai'Sa (even though she's just getting 2 K/DA skins). JackeyLove DUMPSTERED that last game.
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Azadethe (NA)
: Here's my opinion on Elo hell. Yes. It Exists. But it doesn't exist because of matchmaking per say. It exists because at low elos, the range of ranks allotted into one player group is so large. For example, If you are Silver V, you can get between Bronze V and Silver I on your team. When you have 1-2 Silver I's on your opposing team and several very low bronzes on yours, the probability is very high that you have teammates who don't kite, don't respect dangerous champions, don't ward, listen to advice, lose 3/4 of the CS that comes down their lane, don't know champ mechanics, and generally don't care, or are just so toxic that they contribute to their own low rank more with their mouth than their play. And, those Silver I's are often disgraced Golds who are generally technically skilled, so those Bronze lowbies snowball the game. The probability of this occurring at low elos is just so frequent. I generally play non carry champions who "carry" by being the team support or a tilt proof jungler/counterpusher, so when I start a new account and get trolled in my placements by 3 mid lane int feed runners, I start at this elo. The scenario above happens with such frequency that you have to learn to cope with the idea of almost never having an easy game, unless you want to smurf on a hyper carry, and even losing with a 20/0 Katarina or a 7/1/34 Nami. I mean.... a 20/0 Katarina tells you something if you lose: It means the opponent was so mechanically poor they couldn't CC Kat, and Kat always knew how to get out, and calculated the risk of every engagement well. If all those factors are applied to her team and they still lose, it suggests some insidious team selection, where the skill level of the Katarina is FAR greater than the people she is getting placed with. {{champion:267}} has been a main of mine for 5 seasons, and when I play it at low elos, I usually don't even buy {{item:1001}} because I have near perfect aim, get my CDR built up very early, and generally never run out of Mana on my build. I use my skills to move around instead of boots, because her passive just adds so much move speed. This allows me to get items quicker, and perma sustain my teams, as well as lock in otherwise precarious kills/assists. I generally die less than TWICE, do 25k + Damage, 35k+ heals at low elos. That's nearly double what other Namis at the elo do. ~ 40 wards, 40-90 cc scores, etc. My most recent game WAS 7/1/25, followed by 4/1/20, 0/1/13, 4/2/12, 5/4/28, 9/8/28, 1/3/28. The 9/8/28 I was 1v1ing a smurfing 1 shot {{champion:142}} and continually dominating her with Nami built {{item:3065}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3174}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3504}} . She could sleep me 50% of the time, do her combo, and I could heal right out of it every time, while I hit every skill vs her, and killed several times, timed R's with when she was about to kill teammates of mine, knocked her up mid paddle star into a bubble a couple times. Just a generally fun game, trolling the crap out of a Zoe who knew how to play her. But.... {{champion:267}} isn't a hard carry. She might not personally feed, might personally be a cc and ward machine with a 70% kill participation, but if her team is absolute Bronze gutter, she still loses. If she were to say..... outright carry 50% of games, she might "save" another 8-10% margin if played by a pro at her. Hyper carry means win 80% with something like {{champion:238}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:121}} I do wish Riot would reduce the brackets at low elos to ~2 ranks from you rather than 5 ranks from you. A Silver V shouldn't be placed with random Silver I and Bronze V, because Silver V suggests they at least know some of the game, whereas B V is a catch all for people who obviously don't. A Gold IV who has a 60% win rate shouldn't continually be placed on a team with Silver II's while his opponents get low MMR Plat I's. The Silver II might have a high MMR for being Silver, but he's still playing vs low Silver/Bronzes, which stacks his MMR to a place it shouldn't necessarily be. Likewise, the Low MMR Plat might just be on a losing streak when he's normally a Plat II player, and outskills the Gold IV to a significant degree.
> [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hyc5FYAq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-02-04T15:20:41.085+0000) > > <a very long post> That was a very interesting post. You're absolutely right that low-level matchmaking casts FAR too wide a net, considering that I think about 70-80% of the game's players fall into bronze and silver.
: > [{quoted}](name=Arcane Azmadi,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hyc5FYAq,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-04T13:47:38.081+0000) > > One of the longest-standing discussions on this forum is the argument about whether or not &amp;quot;Elo hell&amp;quot; exists. Those who argue that it does point out the fairly-obvious point that LoL is a TEAM game and it doesn&amp;#039;t matter how good you are, if your team is terrible (and your opponents are not) you&amp;#039;re gonna lose, which ultimately means your fate isn&amp;#039;t really in your own hands and matchmaking luck is just as important as skill, if not moreso, and if you get a streak of constant losses then you ARE in Elo hell. > > Those who argue that it _doesn&amp;#039;t_ exist say that any time your team loses it was ALWAYS your fault for not being better than you were, no matter how hopeless (or disconnected) your team was, you could always win _any_ game straw man ˌstrô ˈman/ noun noun: strawman 1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach" No reason to even bother reading any further.
> [{quoted}](name=Bronze Bonanza,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hyc5FYAq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-04T13:50:38.351+0000) > > straw man > ˌstrô ˈman/ > noun > noun: strawman > 1. > an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent&#x27;s real argument. > &quot;her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach&quot; > > No reason to even bother reading any further. If you HAD bothered to read even half a line further you might have noticed that it's NOT a "strawman" argument because THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID TO ME WITHOUT A TRACE OF IRONY. Maybe I'm being a bit sarcastic in describing it, but that's because it's an _obviously stupid argument,_ which didn't stop them from making it with complete seriousness.
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Comentários de Rioters
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 8
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=zTYEf4er,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-08T16:40:23.812+0000) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > **Forbidden Idol** > > We're testing a nerf to Forbidden Idol, and items that build from it, where they give less Heal/Shield power. That's driven by the belief that too much of Enchanter power especially is coming from that stat, which was previously balanced at those numbers when Enchanters had less gold income and therefore weren't stacking the effect as much. > > We feel pretty good about that nerf long term. A complicating factor though is that Enchanters aren't generally looking out of line at present. We're confident it's a good change overall, but not necessarily in the short term however. We're still discussing whether it's something we should ship now, and then adjust around it in following patches. Or whether we should hold it until we have other changes to go with it. Or until enchanter strength is high. Or at the least we until won't have as large a gap between patches as the upcoming holiday period, so if follow up is needed it's not as delayed. Hang on, what? I always thought that, as the stat was stated to be Unique, the Heal/Shield power-enhancing items only applied the highest buff on any one you owned (which would be Mikaels at 20%). I didn't realise it wasn't actually a named effect like Cold Steel, Awe or Cleave, meaning it's only Unique if you're stacking the SAME item. Huh. And all this time I've been playing enchanter supports regretting the amount of wasted stats I get whenever I stack Redemption and Censer together... OK, I can see why that may be problematic, then.
: Hextech and Battlecast are different skinlines
Perhaps you weren't listening? Of COURSE they're different skinlines, but thematically they're still too similar, and seriously, wasn't the Hextech skin line supposed to be the ENEMIES of the Battlecast skin line, lore-wise?
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Comentários de Rioters
AdanYEva (NA)
: SSG V SKT, saddest worlds final EVER
How can it be the "saddest worlds final EVER" when it's exactly the same as last year?
KoKoboto (NA)
: 3s 25% damage reduction point click 2s 40% slow point click Without considering scaling, they're effective abilities and become stronger as the game goes on.
WITH considering the scaling, they're no big deal. You're not building Sona straight AP (unless you're bad, or playing her in a solo lane). You might get an extra 4% damage reduction or slow at most. And during laning only Staccato really matters, and it's been so nerfed that most enemies can shrug it off these days. Sure other enchanters can't really beat you up, but you can't really do anything to them either because your early damage is so nerfed. You need to get to the late game where the power of your spammed auras can overwhelm their own support abilities.
: {{champion:44}} hello?
Eh, haven't played much Taric since they reworked him, but I don't think Taric is comparable. He's MUCH stronger than Sona in the early laning phase solely because of Dazzle, and while he's quite strong in the late game (largely because his ult is teamfight-winning if you land it perfectly) I don't think he has the same unstoppable power as a fully-equipped and leveled Sona. A level 18 Sona with 45% CDR and enough mana sustain throws out heals, shields, MS boosts and damage the same way a 6-item level 18 Yi throws out DPS. The only really hyperscaling things in Taric's kit are the AR from Bastion and the subsequent bonus damage from Bravado, and I'm not even sure how well that scales.
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Comentários de Rioters
: > [{quoted}](name=Escheton,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gWe5aEQc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-05T10:10:00.917+0000) > > Did you suddenly pick up the habit to play just when school is out for kids or at 3 o&#x27;clock at night when everyone is too tired to follow up on even their own plays? I've actually been playing a helluva lot lately because I've been on a medical leave due to depression. I love this game, I've played it since late beta/1st season, it's what keeps me sane at times like this... but it's seemingly whittling me down anymore.
You shouldn't play this game if you're depressed. It's self-destructive behavior. I'm speaking from experience, since I'm also depressed and am fully aware that I'm only making myself more depressed by playing and putting up with the braindead troll retards you get lumbered with in this game. It's made me very negative and pessimistic and I'm starting to worry that I'm going to get my account suspended for constant negativity. So try and be smarter than me (at this stage, me playing LoL basically counts as self-harming, but I'm too far gone to care). If your depression is so bad that you have medical leave for it, you should stick to games (preferably single-player ones) where dumbasses don't make you want to burn down the world.
SEKAI (OCE)
: When Feral Flare and its derivatives were meta, Noc was meta too alongside other AA junglers. Noc also had his moments when his ulti was still global (both the darkness and dash). Though that's kinda it. Maybe I missed a few things tho.
Hate to correct you on this, but Noc's ult dash was NEVER global. It used to be a lot longer, though.
Hooks85 (NA)
: Fuck you riot
{{sticker:vlad-salute}}
Spéctyr (NA)
: Dear Riot
NOTHING pisses people off more and elicits less sympathy than "I should be allowed to keep my account because I spent a lot of money on it". That is the LEAST mitigating circumstance for shitty ban-worthy behavior there is. And if they gave you a perma-ban on second offence, you must have done something HEINOUS. Don't come here expecting support.
: like i cant i have to react on every thing happen in chat
That's like asking for help to quit getting shit-faced in public but then insisting you can't stop going to the pub because you need your booze. If you're not even willing to change your behavior, you simply can't be helped. Forget it.
: if you got banned. DONT SPEND ANY MORE MONEY ON THIS GAME!! duh
I got a better idea: if you got banned, fuck off. {{sticker:vlad-salute}}
Lost R (NA)
: I became a support main for exactly this reason, to stop people from trying to hijack other roles, or screaming themselves into a coma from the slightest implication that they'll have to be the support for so much as a microsecond.
Honestly, I'm a support main because I legit can't trust anyone else to do such an important job right. They all pick "support champs" like Lux or Brand (fair enough) then don't make any concessions to supporting beyond taking no CS while their ADC is in lane and starting with Spellthief's Edge (and occasionally upgrading it to Frost Queen's Claim), just rushing straight AP with a 0 farm budget like the world's worst midlaner. I sometimes feel like the only player on the server who actually knows why Sightstone matters, what Oracle's Lens is for, and what Control Wards do. The shorter queue times are a bonus.
archerno1 (EUNE)
: He isnt stealing anything. Bottom and support share same lane. And there is no rule that says person has to stay in one lane. As for personal attack, i wont deem it worth response, ill let mods deal with ut.
"Bottom" and "support" do not share the same ROLE, you cretin! And there IS a rule that a person has to stay IN THEIR ROLE! But what the hell is even the point of arguing with you? You're either just "trolling" everyone (in the way that morons think "being deliberately stupid" is the same thing as "trolling") or you're just a legit imbecile. Either way, you're a waste of everyone's time. Also, why the hell do you think the mods would intervene on your behalf when you're publicly advocating open trolling? Oh right, because you're an idiot.
Comentários de Rioters
: People who pick support on draft only to instalock a different role...
It's possible they just got autofilled into the rule, which happens occasionally if you never pick support or fill. Which doesn't excuse anything. If you queue for draft, you play the role you're given, or you're a troll and can fuck off.
darkdill (NA)
: No counterplay = toxic gameplay.
darkdill (NA)
: Problem with Kayn Spotlight: Where's the counterplay?
What makes you think he has any? What makes you think he was MEANT to have any?
patmax17 (EUW)
: Bishounen; ✓ I'm looking foreward to seeing the TVTropes page for Kayn xD He's got something of all the edgiest champs: Yasuo (visuals, ionia,...) Zed (shadow magic, is part of his order) Varus (bare chest, long hair, evil weapon, bishonen) Jhin (name, ionia, psychotic killer) Talon (jumps over walls, assassin) Aatrox (darkin) Am I forgetting anyone? edit: added elements of each champ
He's definitely going to get listed under [Cliché Storm](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClicheStorm). Probably [Narm](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm) too.
: Kayn is the ultimate Edgelord
OK, if we stop making jokes about it for a moment, can we agree that this is saddest champion design since... I dunno, EVER? Honestly, it's laughable how hard Riot are trying to be "cool" with this guy. Oh he's not just Kane, he's KAYN! Because Xtreme Kool Letterz are EDGY, DUDES! Jesus, this guy makes Reaper from Overwatch look sensible and up-to-date. Did Riot hire ROB LEIFELD to design this guy or something?! I guess we should count ourselves lucky he doesn't have chains hanging off him!
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Arcane Azmadi

Nível 99 (OCE)
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