: If im playing jungle, i ban lee sin, and ask for ekko ban also. Thats how bad it is playing against either one of them if they are half-way decent at the champ.
I ban Lee Sin from any role sans maybe mid. He's worse to have to deal with than any other champion in the game. The only exception to this is Yasuo and that's only because he can literally make half the roster completely useless (good design Riot).
Falrein (EUW)
: She does look masculine, I don't disagree with that. However, I fail to see how it's a bad thing. We did aim for something different from same-face syndrome, and using The Dreaming Pool's art, which has a Syndra with rather masculine traits, we ended up with this. I will not disagree with the fact that the splash has issues (neck, her hair doesn't stand out enough, her pose), but I don't think making her different from almost every other League women is bad. I mean it probably is to a lot of people, but I personally think diversity is good!
IMO, changes like this are a bad idea because Syndra has a large pre-existing playerbase. Visual updates have a strong tenancy to do this and it's just not a positive. If you want diversity it's better to add than to hamfistedly try to shove shit down the throat of the playerbase that already exists.
FSRER (EUNE)
: This patch missed the mark
>They are overbuffing Sejuani which a good balancing decision to counter the AD picks at Jungle but you know....Ekko...Shaco...Ivern..Elise...yeah.. Yeah, no they're not. These changes mean pretty much fuck all. You don't gain any benefits in the early game, which is Sejuani's current issue.
AD Yuumi (NA)
: We deliberately make skill shot indicators slightly shorter range and thinner than the actual missiles. This is to account for the fact that many players don't fully consider things like travel time and champion hitbox size when throwing their spells. They'll fire at things "just on the edge" that they expect to hit. If skill shot line indicators were perfectly accurate it would result in a lot of missed spells that were fired with an expectation to hit. ——————————————— Edit: here’s an example for better clarity. I ran into a problem with Jinx W. When the indicator was exactly accurate people were more likely to tell me it “missed more than expected.” This is because, while the missile is very fast, it still has travel time so shooting at someone who is max range away will almost never hit them. A shorter indicator was more representative of the “effective max range.” People are rarely going to be upset if their skill shot hits something that they thought was slightly out of range. In that case, expectations are broken in a positive way, “Oh nice I didn’t expect that root to hit!” They WILL be upset if their spell misses something they expected to hit, “WTF they were in range but the spell didn’t reach them. This indicator lies!” This is further confounded by the fact that most players’ default assumption is that skillshots “cheat” the indicator a bit. An indicator that is perfectly accurate can often feel as though it’s lying about the true range of the spell, because of EXPECTATIONS.
I'd make the argument that that's part of learning. It's better to give players accurate information and have them learn what to do with it than give them a misleading lie in order to 'help' them.
: Riot calling Aphelios a hard champion just shows they don't understand the game...
Legit, you just find the gun with the best effects for the game, pocket it and use the other guns to farm. If a secondary gun's good you sit on it, mostly just AAing to keep it up, if it's not you spam Q on CD to get rid of it. It's hardly a complex playstyle in the slightest and the only room you really have to fuck it up is to misunderstand what the best gun for the situation is.
: Irelia is so weird to play right now
OK, here's the thing. Irelia, in spite of everything you think is functionally a fighter and not an assassin. Her core build is Triforce>Titanic Hydra>Sterak's Gauge, with her most common rune being Conquer. That build gives a very significant amount of HP and durability. If a champion is building that and is assassinating people it's a huge fucking problem because they're just better than any champion building shit like Duskblade.
: > [{quoted}](name=RyzeRework,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2019-12-11T05:26:55.037+0000) > > Sej is great at taking dragons early? And has great ganks only problem is shes useless without blue early. Auto attackers are always going to be the best at taking dragons tho theres no doubt to that but if you ward the dragon pick sej can easily outduel a jungler early execpt ww Sejuani is great at taking dragons early? What? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} Sejuani has no sustain, attack speed reliable damage. This champ is absolutely useless, I tried different pathings, my clear time becomes slightly faster when I get {{item:1401}}.
Sej is legit the best tank at taking Dragons early due to her E, which is reliable damage. I just tested in a practice game, a level 5 Sej can solo every dragon easily with just a knife. I'm not going to argue that Sej is good right now, she's not but she's also certainly not useless. My feeling is that the guy you're responding to is heavily overestimating Sejuani, she does not in fact outduel every jungler except WW but at the same time you are actually underestimating her.
AIQ (NA)
: 10 Fury per dragon when she transforms into human. That would literally be like 10% CDR.
Due to the way how Shyv's fury generates it actually wouldn't be. In a case where you don't AA at all it's 10% CDR, in a case where you AA it's much higher. Think of it this way, if you have say, two drakes and you AA for 40 fury over your ult's CD then that's actually an effective 33.3% CDR rather than 20%.
: Great so Urgot going to get another indirect nerf cause Ryze and Cass are overpowered champions
Ehhh, I still think en-mass the conquer change is a good thing. It's really not just broken on Cass and Ryze, it's exceptionally strong on a lot of ranged abuse cases, probably moreso than on its intended users. If Urgot needs buffs is separate from the fact that conquer is a dumbass rune on ranged champs who get all the reward for none of the risk.
: also you could go 30/0/0 if you wanted to go full glass cannon
yeah, or you could do weird splits like 15/15 or 21/x/x where you split your points between the two off trees. Old mastries offered a lot of customisation and they were generally still good even when doing this.
hiyares (NA)
: i mean if they buff her in any way shape of form shes just gonna end up as an even stronger support.
The way to 'buff' her is to reduce her base damage/lv slightly and increase her AP scaling quite significantly so that if she builds more AP she does more damage. I'd also say buff her base durability just a little too since that's a huge issue for mid. But seriously, the reason Zyra isn't played mid is because her main damage ability, her plants doesn't actually scale particularly well with AP. Her plants actually have such high base damage that they end up dealing more damage if you run a cheap pen build vs an expensive AP build. It's no surprise that people put her into a super low econ role with that in mind.
: Main problems with Runes Reforged: Users and abusers: Aftershock is the best example of this. People abused it on unortodox champions it was not made for to reduce the weakness of said champions. (Liss, Pyke). After nerfs the rune was left in a state where intended users were simply not able to use it without handicapping themselves. Min-max options: Quite similar to the previous problem. If we have 3 runes that give X,Y or Z damage, people will always go for the biggest stat stick without thinking of their matchup/combo/synergy. If they know their comet will do 3000 damage, why pick Aery that will do a lot of shielding for allied team? Meanwhile enemy team is hyper mobile and dodges half the comets. Lack of choices: A problem I still see these days. And that is that we are missing quite a few choices for niche champions/matchups. Deathfire grasp used to be a really good mastery for Dot-mages, and it was never broken. Its removal was unwarranted and created problems further down the line.
>Users and abusers: Aftershock is the best example of this. People abused it on unortodox champions it was not made for to reduce the weakness of said champions. (Liss, Pyke). After nerfs the rune was left in a state where intended users were simply not able to use it without handicapping themselves. Made even worse by the fact that Aftershock's in a position where its users can't really viably use anything else unless the alternative keystone's outright busted. If you're playing a jungle tank you pretty much can't viably run anything bar Aftershock.
016 Hiro (EUNE)
: The biggest problem with runes reforged is lack of defensive keystones. Resolve, which should be "crowd control and survivability" containst only ONE true defense keystone. O N E Also there are too many runes that are totally useless or can be used only on few champions (like Nimbus Cloak, Shield Bash, Overheal, Revitalize, Unflinching, Last Stand, Cut Down is completely absolutely worthless to take on any champion now) We have like 12 offensive keystones, 4(5 if we count aery) utility and ONE defensive. Also why keystones are SO powerful? Why cant Rito just cut down power of all runes by 50%?
Also, the first line of runes in Resolve literally give 0 durability options at all. And the 3rd line only gives one bad durability option, which is often still ran because the 3rd line of Resolve runes are really weak. The only line of Resolve that actually serves to make you tankier at this point is the second line.
: IDK man, i'd rather have a stat boost than a silly gimmick of an ability. The old runes gave you far more flexibility to builds and experimenting new things. crit plank and all that stuff was fun and engaging. I don't like the idea of "only this rune can be used on this champion otherwise you are shitty and trolling". It pigeonholes you into having to have the same thing over and over again. How many times have these new keystones been nerfed/buffed/removed/replaced? Have you never wanted to take something other than klepto on ezreal, conqueror on darius, etc etc...?
Old masteries (like S4 and before) were fairly similar. They gave you things like -1/2 damage from champion AAs or 2/4/6 armour. The 'key stone' masteries gave 3% increased damage, 15% tenacity and 5% out of combat move speed. Masteries didn't used to be busted shit like they became towards the end.
: Jungle feels like shit
These changes were meant to be a net nerf to full aggro junglers. They've been too strong for a while and have honestly needed it. It's a welcome buff to less aggressive junglers, a playstyle that has been shit for the last few seasons. The changes are doing exactly what was intended, and that's a very good thing.
: This item is WAY too OP on tryn and nocturn. Both are JG or split pushers so they can use it alot, and with noc W you can nearly hit the AS speed Cap with just this item and berserker grieves. I might try it out on sejuani since it sounds really really OP with her frost. Kayle as well.
Stacking attack speed on Sej has diminishing returns. The first 40% or so is really strong since it lets you easily set up frost procs, but after that it's just not a very useful stat. If you want AS on Sej (I'm assuming top here, it's not a stat you should ever build jungle) then Triforce will still be a better option. It gives you multiple useful passives, better stat distribution and it builds out of items that aren't completely useless to you as components.
: Would it be better to make Ryze a spell-based juggernaut?
Pretty much what Ryze used to be. I personally liked S1/2/3 Ryze more than what we have now. He used to be really tanky but completely lacked burst and required you to cast a huge string of spells to deal damage.
: Let them, then. Without conqueror you can actually build against it. And auto attack based champions have always been weak to the myriad types of CC available on every champion these days. Duelists will have a good time bursting each other down, tanks will have a good time making duelists cry. This item does of course provide any 1v1 champion ALL the stats they could POSSIBLY want, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's kind of like an assassin trinity force.
How does a tank beat a lifestealing duellist exactly? At best they can disengage easily. The raw stats this item gives ensures that you'll never lose a 1v1 on equal footing with it. The worst case for this item is that it gives 3968 gold worth of stats 1v1 if you somehow get it at lv 1. That scales up to 5718 at lv 18. Tanks just don't have an item that gives them the stats they need to deal with that. Using a fairly realistic lv 9 calculation Sanguine Blade gives 4791 gold worth of stats, making it 160% gold efficient. The best answer tanks would have to this is probably Thornmail, its passives are highly efficient VS Sanguine. The big issue is just stats though. Thornmail just doesn't give the stats a tank needs to compete against that. It's great that you have an item with passives that counter what the enemy's trying to do, but they still have 4791 gold worth of stats for 3000 gold while you have 2267 gold worth of stats for 2900. They've bought over twice the stats you have for effectively equal gold. The shear amount of stats they have will just allow them to brute force through you unless you have a significant gold lead. There are more cost efficient tank items, but none of them would be cost efficient enough to be competitive. Your best hope would be TM and it's just not good enough.
Slogg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LostInTheDark07,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KTPAGngX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-10T17:36:43.124+0000) > > I wonder why is RIOT forcing us to watch {{champion:64}} every single year at worlds, while they "don't force meta", mhm sure RIOT buffing Lee Sin to the point of beyond broken. Also "jungle role sucks", in the meantime at worlds junglers have the most impact in the game, camping jungler > afk farming jungler, I was sick of watching every game almost 10 stop watches every game ruining the fights. Delete that thing from the game already. It s so stupid to see how much impact junglers have, they can literally decide which lanes are winning or not or which lanes to put behind just via pressure also spending more time camping than farming must be so much fun. People, and more specifically junglers like myself, don't say JG sucks because of how impactful it can be. They say it is trash because it is entirely dependent on your laners. If you are the JG on the other end of the equation, you are 100% useless because of just how far ahead the other jungler gets upon successful ganks, ad thus by extension, how far ahead laners get. Since farming is essentially a waste of time because of the lack of XP, the other JG has no recourse beyond a miracle to get back into the game because ganking losing lanes usually ends in disaster, and the lanes you need to gank the other JG is also camping them, except he's a level higher than you are(at a minimum) and probably an item which means you are, yet again, asking for the grey screen. It's a frustrating play experience for most junglers.
Not even to mention that you're basically forced to play hyper aggressive every game. There's no such thing as a farming/scaling jungler anymore. You have to play Lee Sin or J4 and gank lanes all the time to be effective. That fucking sucks.
: The entire concept of preserving animals from extinction is pointless. Extinction is as natural as wildfires.
> [{quoted}](name=IAintDarius,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4ZEGHvUa,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-11-08T02:58:28.498+0000) > > The entire concept of preserving animals from extinction is pointless. Extinction is as natural as wildfires. Mass extinction at the rate that is currently occurring in the absence of global catastrophe is not normal. There is a background rate of extinction but the current rate is 100-1000x that. 4 of the 5 mass extinctions in history were probably caused by geological activity. They were caused by the formation of volcanoes that make Yellowstone look small spewing molten rock and ash into the atmosphere for thousands of years. The other was caused by a mix of volcanic activity and a large asteroid hitting the earth. In the absence of an event like this organisms should not be going extinct at the rate they are now.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nyarlathοtep,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4ZEGHvUa,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-11-07T19:22:30.698+0000) > > Well humans actually contribute to panda's extinction. Their natural habitats are in danger thanks to human activity. So yeah. Oh yeah, we aren't helping, but if we as a species didn't exist, I don't think pandas would be able to survive on their own, they just like...don't put up the levels of power to actually survive in the wild.
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4ZEGHvUa,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-11-07T21:35:36.375+0000) > > Oh yeah, we aren't helping, but if we as a species didn't exist, I don't think pandas would be able to survive on their own, they just like...don't put up the levels of power to actually survive in the wild. They literally did for tens of thousands of years. Their strategy of survival hasn't changed. The main thing that changed was human activity severely limiting their range. Pandas have a really good general survival strategy, contrary to popular belief. They eat something that nothing else can eat. The fact that it's 97% of their diet isn't overly restrictive without human deforestation because bamboo is a fast growing and environmentally dominant plant that only a few species on earth and none other in the giant panda's range can eat. Their mating strategy also makes complete sense in a scenario where pandas aren't excessively rare. Limited mating help to avoid competition and in a relatively common species (as pandas were for tens of thousands of years) is and always has been a solid survival strategy. The idea that pandas are bad at surviving is a myth and completely misunderstands how natural selection actually works. Natural selection forces animals to adopt unique niches. Pandas have a very strong unique niche. There's almost no non-human environmental pressure on them. Nothing else eats bamboo and nothing predates on fully grown giant pandas. The only thing that removes bamboo from their environment is humans and the only thing that can remove pandas from their environment is humans. The decline of the giant panda is 100% because of humans.
Cloud273 (NA)
: Buffing tanks directly is the best way to fix them
I'm of the opinion that the best way to go about this would be a general damage reduction and not just a buff to tanks. The issue isn't just tanks dying too fast, it's everything dying too fast. That probably ends up being a small buff to tanks overall, they may still be slightly weaker than average but they'd be better and once the game's in a more palatable place we could always go back and look at tanks/tank items again anyway.
: > [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2u4yBt2y,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-11-02T04:11:45.891+0000) > > And the fact that they come up quicker means that junglers have more potential gold and exp if they chose to hard farm rather than gank and as such are less likely to get auto outscaled. The reason this playstyle is so rare right now is because the rewards are just non-existant. Reducing camp spawns by 30 seconds increases the rewards you can get by farming more and therefore makes it a more viable option. To be fair though, two minutes is still too long of a respawn for jungle camps. 2:30 was just absurd and a mistake of a change. They should really go back to the 1:40 area. No you still get auto outscaled. You can't outlevel your solo laners without taking lane farm and/or them playing aram. You can make the wrong choice to power farm and making that wrong choice is punished less, but it's still not something pros or high elo junglers will be doing because it's the wrong choice.
You don't strictly speaking need to outlevel someone to outscale them, nor do you need to outscale them to have an impact on the game via scaling. A good example of where you're using scaling but not attempting to actually outscale are lv 6 junglers. This is huge for them as they hit level 6 or very close to it 30 seconds earlier. If my maths is correct they hit 6 off of the exact same number of camps, a small invade and 2 clears or 2 scuttles and 2 clears gets them 6 on both live and in the preseason changes. So for Nocturne, Warwick ect. these are just straight buffs. That's before mentioning a lot of hard farmers scale off of items. Master Yi is a great example who mostly just wants to farm for two items. Shyvana just wants items and maybe level 11. For these champs and others like them these are great changes, they probably won't make them the best choice in high elo, but they make them better. There is nuance here. These changes make the current swath of meta hyper-gank junglers worse and non-meta farming junglers better. It probably doesn't close the gap between them, I don't think the changes go far enough, but they are changes in the right direction.
: > [{quoted}](name=LightswornLance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2u4yBt2y,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-31T21:18:33.810+0000) > > Did you not read the notes? They decreased the camp gold and exp by 5% but decreased the camp spawn timers from 2:30 to 2:00 which is an overall 12% increase if you are optimally farming. You can also get level 3 from either side now with gromp being boosted in exp and krugs being reduced. I expect my boy Graves to be meta again :) This is wrong though. It's just a 5% exp nerf if you're optimally farming. Basically the only Jungler in the game that ever full clears multiple rotations is Yi. The Idea that junglers aren't killing camps because they have none to do is wood 4 tier understanding of the JG. Junglers aren't clearing camps because Junglers get auto outscaled and have the most impact by ganking a lot instead of clearing camps. It doesn't matter if i have ALL my camps up if just spam ganking is more valuable then killing them. The camp spawn reduction is ironically just a buff to laners that are good at stealing camps like Yas and Talon.
And the fact that they come up quicker means that junglers have more potential gold and exp if they chose to hard farm rather than gank and as such are less likely to get auto outscaled. The reason this playstyle is so rare right now is because the rewards are just non-existant. Reducing camp spawns by 30 seconds increases the rewards you can get by farming more and therefore makes it a more viable option. To be fair though, two minutes is still too long of a respawn for jungle camps. 2:30 was just absurd and a mistake of a change. They should really go back to the 1:40 area.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Marksmen were oppressive in S5. IDK how you didn't notice. But teams were all focused around marksmen back then. Really unbalanced. Also, if you weren't playing tanks in top/jungle you were soft inting. That's not good game balance. That was also the season with new GP and Dragon Morde wasn't it?
Dragon Mord was late into the season, after the juggernaut changes which is what most people use as the cutoff for when S5 stopped being good. GP was also fairly late into S5, about 2 patches before Mord but he took a while for people to work out. For the first patch or so he was a non-issue because you could bet every GP player was terrible. So the point where he actually became a problem was about the same point as the point when Mord was reworked. Tanks were not the only viable junglers or tops at all. Post Cinder nerf pretty much every jungler who is overwhelming now was viable then. It's just that you could also play tank junglers and they were good rather than fucking abysmal. Champions like Graves, Lee Sin, Elise and Kindred were all important parts of the meta. I'm not a top laner so I don't know as much about tops specific champions but I know there was at least fairly good variety in top. 95% of all metas have been focused around ADCs. If it's not tanks and supports to protect them then it's assassins and divers to kill them. It is interesting how you mix up different metas from S5 as if they were the same thing even when they're self contradictory. You can't play anything but tanks top but GP is a problem? You don't see the issue with that statement? ADCs were the most important champs but Dragon Mord (played bot in S5) was an issue? The problem with your logic is that S5 was actually varied. It wasn't just one meta. It was basically split into four distinct metas. The first was a high damage meta, it was short but defined by champs like Lee Sin, J4, Rek'sai and Xin who dominated the game from the jungle. This meta ended when Riot nerfed damage from jungle and significantly buffed tanks. You then had a tank meta where the strongest junglers, tops and supports were tanks, but it didn't last that long either. Riot significantly nerfed tank junglers resulting in a fairly balanced meta which lasted about half of the year. This is what most people refer to when they say they liked S5. After Riot reworked 5 champions over 2 patches and 4 of them caused huge balance issues you had the worlds meta, where Darius, Gangplank, Mord and Skarner were game warping.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Just saying that was one of the issues back then assassins were too weak
Assassins being weak isn't that much of an issue TBH. As a class they're oppressive and game warping. Their viability inherently forces squishy champs to be limited to only ADCs and mages with extreme self peel and good options for dealing with assassins or champions with enough burst to 50/50 into the assassin. The tradeoff for assassins being week has historically been far better balance amongst all other classes. In S5 tanks, ADCs, bruisers, mages and both tank and mage supports were all viable and most had good variety. The only tradeoff was weaker assassins. That's a good tradeoff.
: > [{quoted}](name=RootingIsFun,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uuYHlAKV,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-10-22T18:37:45.153+0000) > > I mean you're not making any sense at all, words are already censored. I mean, wars happen, so why is murder even illegal?
> [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=uuYHlAKV,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2019-10-22T18:39:44.373+0000) > > I mean, wars happen, so why is murder even illegal? Here's the easiest counter argument to that logic. Under international law wars are illegal, or at least the act of starting a war. This means the only way for a war to start in most situations is for one party to break the law.
IainG10 (EUW)
: If they cut CDR from mages, they need to take it from assassins and brawlers as well. You should have to choose between hitting often and hitting hard. Now to be fair, I am all for that. I just don't want to see assassins become even more oppressive (and remember, that will force more mages into supp, where they don't belong).
To be fair, CDR is actually overall less degenerate on Mages than it is on Assassins and Bruisers. Mages are overwhelmingly immobile, which at least gives them an exploitable weakness for some of their strengths. Even if they hit hard and often they tend to be easy to kill. The same thing cannot be said about bruisers and assassins.
: Point and click cc, which only a few champions have ex: {{champion:9}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:4}} and for roaming/travelling mobility ur pretty much screwed since {{item:3142}}{{item:3117}} gives massive amounts of out of combat movement speed
> [{quoted}](name=0cean Mann,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GVdI78m7,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-20T03:30:31.535+0000) > > Point and click cc, which only a few champions have > ex: {{champion:9}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:4}} > > and for roaming/travelling mobility ur pretty much screwed since {{item:3142}}{{item:3117}} gives massive amounts of out of combat movement speed The issue with this is that point and click CC doesn't actually specifically work to counter mobile champs, it just punishes mobile and immobile champs equally, as opposed to the majority of things in the game which punish immobile champs more.
Meddler (NA)
: We'll likely add some power to Sejuani soon. Not sure which patch yet. We're not going to be doing much balance work to individual champs in 9.22 since preseason's just about to hit and we need to reassess everyone after that anyway. Possible we do do a few changes in 9.22 though and Sej would be one of the more likely candidates if so, given she's noticeably underperforming in solo queue and not meaningfully present in Worlds either.
Great, I'm ready for her to go back to being busted in pro play, again then get gutted to the point of being unplayable in soloqueue, again. Repeat ad infinitum. At some point you guys are just going to have to admit that her rework's a dumpsterfire. The same problems crop up over and over with no feasible ways to fix them. Sej needs more than just balance changes.
: First of all, I never said they were bad. They aren't great, but spellpen kind of makes them useless mid-late game. They are definitely okay in the early game, but not good by any means. Against one mage, sure. Against 3 of them?, 4?, it takes a very specific subsection of champions to become immortal. Maokai, Mundo, the like. I also completely disagree that it takes a Spirit Visage alone to invalidate a mage. If you are laning against someone who will buy a big MR item early on, you get Sorc Shoes, Morello, and sometimes an early Void Staff. But with the first two alone, you negate almost the entirety of Spirit Visage's MR. Yes yes. It's 4100g vs 2800, you can add Merc Treds in there, etc. etc. Frankly, if your damage profile is so heavily invested into one type of damage you deserve to lose, which is not even the case any more with all the penetration in the game.
Yeah, 3-4 mage teams that lack in AD is the best thing you can see as a tank player, and I'm speaking from experience here. They're exceedingly rare because they kinda suck against tanks. Stacking up Mercs, Adaptive, Spirit Visage and Warmogs lets you just ignore mages completely. You can round that out with Mask, Locket (which is pretty underrated in an AP heavy situation), Gargoyle's or situationally a QSS. Alternatively you can just stack on another HP item because most mages are really bad at dealing with large HP pools and moderate MR anyway. Also, Sorcs/Morello's gives 33 Mpen, Visage gives 55 MR. You're up 22 MR and 1300 gold in this scenario. Yes, they have extra AP from Morello's as a combat stat but you have extra HP and CDR from Visage. In every way this is a huge advantage to the tank player. As a tank player what I dread isn't AP comps due to lack of itemisation. The variety is low but the items power level is more than enough to deal with AP comps easily. The main issue is full or heavy AD comps. Armour itemisation is just woefully inadequate to deal with the damage that ADs can bring in League's current state.
: What do you guys want in a champion?
I want a coherent game philosophy across all champions which makes the game less bursty and more balanceable than it is now. Recent champions have been an affront to this. I'd actually prefer simpler champions that reduce the amount of bullshit in the game.
: ?? I mean at one hand people are sympathetic to Sej because she has low winrate in solo queue but good competitive showing and at the other hand {{champion:517}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:39}} get gutted and people still want them to get more nerfs (yes I agree some of them got buffed, but they are still a shell of their former self)
I'm certainly sympathetic towards Akali, Irelia and Aatrox. They all got garbage ass reworks in a similar vein to Sej.
Kazekiba (NA)
: Seju is far from boring (or even bad), and it wasn't that long ago they increased her E damage by ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT
A 150% increase on an ability with low damage already doesn't do that much, It's not nothing but it won't make her a huge damage threat by herself. On the other hand, a 50% reduction on your main damage ability, her passive is a huge nerf. This pretty much insures that Sej's damage will be pathetic. Considering she was already a bad soloqueue champ before this change, she's hot garbage now.
Juice (EUNE)
: Sejuani is one of the most broken junglers in the game. It has nothing to do with 'pro' play. She is the most popular jungler in Diamond + elo and she's a tank , who are notoriously boring to play - that's a SIGN that she is overtuned. Stop whining , please. Just because your champion isn't flashy and doesn't get penta kills doesn't mean they can't be OP.
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/builds/jungle/diamond You know we can actually look up stats for who the most popular jungler in high elo play is right? It's not Sejuani. She's not even close. The actual fact of the matter is that Sej is the 17th most popular jungler and she has the lowest winrate of all junglers in D+, that's all above her and all below her.
: Glacial Buff needs a nerf, BADLY
>Glacial buff, at 4 units, gives a 40% chance to stun, per auto. Ashe with double guinsoos VERY quickly reaches 3.0 attack speed. Ashe alone gives you at least 120% chance to stun per second, add in the other 3 units (more if you throw in two of a unit) and thats a whopping 240% chance to stun units per second, assuming a rough base of 1.0 attack speed per the other units without guinsoos. That's not how the maths for this works in the slightest. You can't just add independent events together like that, they multiply. The actual way to do this is 0.6x0.6x0.6=0.216 chance to not be stunned by an Ashe AAing you per second. This means that Ashe's odds of stunning you are actually 78.4%, not 120%. This is more logical anyway, as you can go a second without Ashe stunning you, even if the odds are not in favour of it.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: See Febos's comment where he adresses active accounts. I didnt think I needed to include it since it's there...
It doesn't really address active accounts because Lolalytics only has access to a sample of the games played on any given patch. We don't actually know what percentage of all games they're sampling. Add to that the fact that patches aren't always the same length, player behaviour shifts over the course of a year and Lolalytics' data not even going back a whole year and there's still a whole lot of issues with attempting to use this data. Ideally what we'd want if we were taking games played as a metric would be some discrete length of time across different years. IE. we'd want the games played in June of 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015 and as far back as we can get data for. To my knowledge there isn't a site that keeps non-sample data going back this far, I don't even think it's possible to create one with Riot's API. The total number of players always sees spikes at certain times and dips at others, for example players tend to be high at the start of the year due to the preseason/season start and somewhat high towards the end due to the end of the season (for ranked) but dip during the middle of the year. This makes patch to patch comparison worthless, we need year to year.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: the "League is dying" argument
There's an inherent flaw to the logic you're using. Inactive accounts are still counted unless they're removed, which only happens to sub level 30 accounts. We don't know how many of the 24,528,211 accounts on EUW are simply sitting inactive. We can't say whether the increase in inactive accounts over the course of 2018 would be less than, equal to or greater than the 2166206 new accounts created or even what fraction of these new accounts are active. Even within your statistics it is still entirely possible that there is a decline occurring. Your statistics do not say anything about player engagement, rather they simply approximate the number of players who have ever played League up to that point. It is almost impossible for this number to decrease due to how infrequent deletion of accounts is. To actually judge if League is in decline or not we'd have to use statistics that told us something about the current playerbase's engagement. These could be stats such as the number of games played compared to this time last year or ideally the number of active accounts compared to this time last year. To my knowledge we do not have statistics that can tell us this.
: Neither player numbers nor revenue are the only measurements of success. :)
As far as anyone on the business side of Riot is concerned, the most important factor of success is revenue and the second most important factor is probably player counts.
: Yea * Mikael's crucible is in need of a rework. Overly ping reliant and can be made to better work for players of all skill levels * Ohmwrecker - tower disable hasn't proven to be a healthy mechanic and the item has nearly 0 users currently * Wit's end was this recently - if our 9.7 changes don't give it a more used niche it would fall in here Some opportunities that we would like to pursue with freed up space * More choice and options in lethality builds * An ap bruiser / ap melee item * All around cleanup of support items, get some more choice in there and dont force players into 5 actives in one build
>Mikael's crucible is in need of a rework. Overly ping reliant and can be made to better work for players of all skill levels What if the active was changed to be something like "Cleanse a CC off the nearest CCed ally" and Crucible put some sort of particle that the owner could see over their ally who will be affected should they activate the item? It would make it weaker in the pro-game case due to limitations being put on the item's active but easier to use effectively due to a visual indicator reminding you of its existence.
: The most accurate is just using the exact formula that *League* uses: * If Resist >= 0: **Damage x (100 / (100 + Defense))** * If Resist < 0: **Damage x (2 - 100 / (100 - Defense))** So if you're dealing 1283 damage into 37 MR, you're dealing 1283 x (100 / (100+37)), or 936.5 damage. Your numbers off for a bit for reasons I'm not sure of. Probably math. Note, however, that this is the *same* as having 27% effective health: both formulas, when properly calculated, return equivalent damage values needed to kill you. Watch: * Effective Health = **Health x ( 1 + (0.01 x Resist))** So with 1000 health and 100 resist we'd be looking at 2000 effective health. Let's test that with the formula above for damage: **2000 = [Damage] x (100 / (100 + 100)).** That gets us **1000 (health we have) = [Damage] x 0.5**, which means we need 2000 damage to kill us. That's *exactly* what our 2000 effective health calculation indicated, and what the **100 MR = 100% more effective health** would indicate. So the secret is they're *both* right! **MATH!**
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=56FPsrQg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-21T12:05:26.521+0000) > > The most accurate is just using the exact formula that *League* uses: > > * If Resist >= 0: **Damage x (100 / (100 + Defense))** > * If Resist < 0: **Damage x (2 - 100 / (100 - Defense))** > > So if you're dealing 1283 damage into 37 MR, you're dealing 1283 x (100 / (100+37)), or 936.5 damage. Your numbers off for a bit for reasons I'm not sure of. Probably math. > > Note, however, that this is the *same* as having 27% effective health: both formulas, when properly calculated, return equivalent damage values needed to kill you. Watch: > > * Effective Health = **Health x ( 1 + (0.01 x Resist))** > > So with 1000 health and 100 resist we'd be looking at 2000 effective health. Let's test that with the formula above for damage: **2000 = [Damage] x (100 / (100 + 100)).** > > That gets us **1000 (health we have) = [Damage] x 0.5**, which means we need 2000 damage to kill us. That's *exactly* what our 2000 effective health calculation indicated, and what the **100 MR = 100% more effective health** would indicate. > > So the secret is they're *both* right! **MATH!** This is all correct, where most people tend to go wrong with E/HP calculations I think is that they forget that after performing the calculation the number left over is effective HP, not actual HP. This is the error the OP makes in his calculation. The enemy wouldn't have 113 HP left, they'd have 113 E/HP left. To get it back to actual HP you'd have to divide by the original multiplier you applied. So the actual remaining HP would be ~82.
: > [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=50aB6GbJ,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-18T02:33:18.618+0000) > > It's not extortion, it's common courtesy. Often seen as an insult when you fail to tip. When you insult someone it's not an unknown occurrence that they get back at you in some way. Except there are many places in the world where it's actually considered rude to tip. In Japan, for example, people are taught that a job well done is its own reward, and there have been cases where employees will actually follow foreign customers out of the restaurant to return their money if they tip. Tipping in many Asian cultures is considered disrespectful to the server. Why is it "required" in the West? Because capitalism necessitates it, and nothing else.
> [{quoted}](name=L Psy Congroo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=50aB6GbJ,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-18T02:38:27.874+0000) > > Except there are many places in the world where it's actually considered rude to tip. In Japan, for example, people are taught that a job well done is its own reward, and there have been cases where employees will actually follow foreign customers out of the restaurant to return their money if they tip. Tipping in many Asian cultures is considered disrespectful to the server. Why is it "required" in the West? Because capitalism necessitates it, and nothing else. Correction, it's not required in the west, it's required in the US. I worked as a pizza driver in Australia to help pay my way through uni and I was earning 15 AUD an hour, not a great wage but it's OK for what I was doing at the time. I did sometimes get tips but I never actually needed them. This isn't an inherent problem of capitalism, to be clear I don't like capitalism very much in the first place but this is very much an issue of rampant corporatism rather than capitalism itself. In other western countries waiters, drivers and other professions get paid at least minimum wage (in theory, I was slightly below but I never needed more so I never complained) and tips are just a bonus on top of that.
: Shyvana currently has a 2% Play Rate. Stat sites reset their counters today. Champion.GG has tracked 5512 games. Lolalytics has tracked 27,220 games. The BUILDS that are using AP are tallying up to 14,556. That's more than significant. If you're talking about the fact I'm posting Plat +, I can't really easily break down lower tiers, because stat sites are not tracking overall among all ranks. Below Plat they segregate them. https://na.op.gg/champion/shyvana/statistics/jungle Even puts AP at 58-63%, and they don't segregate.
What stats are you reading? Her highest winrate first item is Red Smite/Bloodrazor, ignoring the outlier 0.8% pickup rate Titanic Hydra. Looking at items bought more than 1% of the time as first items the order is Red Smite/Bloodrazor(53.94%)>Blue Smite/Bloodrazor(53.87%)>Blue Smite/Runic(52.19%)>Nashor's(52.17%)>Red Smite Runic(46.14%) Her highest winrate builds are also traditional Shyvana builds. All of her high winrate items are AD or tank items other than Meiji's, Deathcap and Spellbinder, 3 win more items you wouldn't even consider unless you were already winning. It seems to me like traditional Shyv is doing a whole lot better than AP.
Zerenza (NA)
: He reveals himself the second he roar's, i can understand having to target him, as with vayne condemn but i don't play champions that have targeted abilities so i usually just point my mouse and click a button. Though i will add that you can kind of deduce what direction he's in because of the fact his R puts a marker on the nearest enemy and it does have a limited range, i think that's pretty helpful to prepare for him jumping on you since if your prepared for it you can react a lot faster. Also i should add that Rengar's jump takes .5 seconds to complete, during which he is completely unable to perform any action(except prep his Q) so even though the burst itself will come out in .2 seconds(give or take based on how fed he is or isn't.) and i think that .7-1 seconds is pretty okay since you probably also have about 2 seconds to prepare for it before hand when his R gives you that mark on your head.
He reveals himself when he roars, which tells you that he's there, not where he's coming from. You can't target anything based on auditory information unless the only thing that matters is the timing. So you can use the roar to queue up something like a flash or Ezreal's E, but not something like an Ashe arrow, Zyra snare, Condemn or Cocoon. As for ascertaining his general direction and using that, there's niche cases where it's useful. If you have a spell with a wide arc which covers a fairly large area to ensure you can hit the general direction can be good enough, but these spells are typically fairly rare in the first place. The few I can think of not tied to ultimates on someone Rengar is likely to target are Syndra's E, which often isn't going to be used to knock back without a stun anyway, it's really a last resort to do that and Annie's W, which is a conditional stun. Generally speaking reacting with anything other than a mobility spell via sound alone isn't an option. >and i think that .7-1 seconds is pretty okay since you probably also have about 2 seconds to prepare for it before hand when his R gives you that mark on your head. That literally only matters if you're casting a mobility spell, if you're not then you still have to find and target Rengar in all but niche cases. >Also i should add that Rengar's jump takes .5 seconds to complete .5 is still just above human reaction time. That means if you don't react instantly Rengar kills you. It's also worth noting that by flashing before his jump he can actually make it unreactable. I think a majority of players would agree that this isn't OK. The punishment for reacting 0.2 seconds too slowly shouldn't be instant death. This is why Rengar is so overwhelmingly hated by pretty much everyone who doesn't play him and why he's honestly one of if not the worst designs in the game.
Zerenza (NA)
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIuZudzESo Visual Reaction Time and Auditory Reaction Time are different from eachother. In this video there's a tiny test for your reaction time inside of it, here's what i got. .185 MS Visual and .083 Auditory. In league of legends there's a large number of sounds you can listen to that would help you react to a multitude of things; for example, rengar's Roar when he leaps at you, comes out at the beginning of his jump almost the exact millisecond that he reveals himself. I'v gotten pretty dang good at flashing that shit, or landing a skillshot before he even finishes the jump because all i have to do is press 1 button right after i hear that roar. There's more examples but i feel like Rengar's is the most helpful. I should add that my ping is 63 usually, so we have to add 63 to 185 so 248 with visual and .146 with auditory. My mouse and keyboard have almost no delay so i'm gonna go with it's negligible but i think i have plenty of time between rengar's jump and the damage portion of the jump in order to prevent myself from getting popped, assuming i have the tools necessary to do so.
Nice theory, but Rengar doesn't give auditory warning of which direction he's coming from. There's no way to use the audio queue to align your mouse over him in order to react to him at all. The roar is only useful for allerting you to him, in order to actually react properly to him in any way other than a pre-mediated flash in a random direction, IE to do something like Condemn him as Vayne you actually need to wait the full visual reaction time. Also worth noting, .185 is a very quick visual reaction time, the last time I took one of those tests I was at about .2 and I'm still well above average. The average reaction time is .28, add your 63 ping to that and you're looking at .34 seconds before you can make a meaningful reaction to Rengar. The issue is he can be on top of you in less time than that and burst you in fractionally more time.
: It should just be like other forums where replying to a topic bumps the thread to the top. That way stuff that's actually being discussed is always bumped to the top.
OK, then you can sort by recent. There's really no reason to remove an optional piece of functionality for people who like using them, which is what Hot/Best sorting were. Their existence does not stop anyone from sorting by recent.
0XFallen (EUW)
: Not really when CC and stopwatch exist in this game, adc shouldnt be alone anyway. That and the new PD gives a massive shield and adcs are again stronger against squishies
OK, but everything you just bought up BotRK/extra AS actually helps to deal with. It's more likely that you'll still have something useful to contribute after ulting if you have persistent DoT, meaning Zhonya's is a worse counter into Zed, it's value is already massively overestimated anyway since Zed's R is on about half the CD of Hourglass making it a R for Hourglass trade in Zed's favour as long as you can get away, which you should be able to since you only really need to press R again unless you really fucked up. Extra DoT also helps to break that shield anyway, that one shouldn't need explaining. This isn't theoretical. Zed has had a higher base AS before. When his AS is high he can outduel fighters and kill them with his R, he can deal significant damage to tanks, bursting well over half of their HP if he can AA for the duration of his mark and he still destroys squishies just as hard as he currently does despite all these strengths. It's just a bad idea.
0XFallen (EUW)
: Zed pbe changes opinions?
We've tried Zed with more AS before, he builds BotRK and combines the passive with his R multiplication to shred Tanks/Bruisers while combining the active with his R to burst squishies easy. Changes are about as dumb as I expect from Riot at this point TBH.
: > [{quoted}](name=FioraWillCarry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYRHGRqT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-09T15:53:15.483+0000) > > Why even bother farming the jungle. Even with 2 full clears uninterrupted you'll still barely be the same level as the support with only slightly more gold. Might as well just gank non-stop or do "supporty" things. The jungle is shit this season compared to previous seasons. and how exactly do you gank and camp lanes as yi?
You don't, that's why Yi and all other farming junglers fucking suck right now.
Sukishoo (NA)
: At this point it'd be another rework not a revert since they don't keep those assets this long. Plus she just got a new skin that didnt previously exist on the old kit, that'd be a lot of resources they are probably using for other things right now.
Visually the rework barely changed Sej. So far as I know she has two new animations and only a few unused ones from her old state. In fact, I'm pretty sure that even with minimal effort the new skin would end up looking better with the old animations, considering one of the new animations is her spine snapping W. No matter how you look at it a rework is far more work than a revert though.
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LankPants

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